I konw you guys who have been reading the threads about the city centre regeneration will know that I am 100% behind it. I know we need drastic investment for the city to bloom again. But after today I am desperately worried that Sheffield is on the verge of extinction, or at the best being renamed poundland city.

As many of you willl have heard (I know, I bang on about it quite alot) I am a student studying in Manchester. Sheffield is my birth place and up til last september I was very content living here. But september came and I moved to the bright lights of Manchester, and I'm sorry to say I've never looked back. I somehow don't think that, even though I'm proud to be a Sheffielder (if thats how you spell it), I will ever return to Sheffield to live permenantly.

How long have we, as Sheffield folk, been waiting for the 'Masterplan' to be seen. I was, and to a point still am, very excited about the NRQ, and the rejuvanation of the city, but where the hell is it???

Maybe we haven't seen it because of the extremely conservative council and planning department, who seem to be intimidated by bring the 21st century to south yorkshire and only giving permission to build if its under 5 stories (yes I am talking about the 32 story tower). But then again it might actually be a vast majority of the people of sheffield that have holted there own cities regeneration, thats right folks, for objecting to every single development. The peace gardens were objected to because they were cutting down trees, the hotel was objected to because you can't see the winter gardens (even though if you look on the original plans for the winter gardens you will see it clearly states this plot of land is for future development), now the tower has been objected to.

People are saying 'theres no need for another hotel' or 'why do we need more luxury flats' - and the simple answer is - we do. It is obvious that City Lofts and McDonald Hotels aren't going to inject millions of pounds worth of investment into the city if they aren't going to recoup their money, cos that would be just plain stupid.

I know that I'm going off on a rant but I am genuinely upset about the rejection of planning permission for the tower, I think that it would have been the ideal landmark building for town, a sign that sheffield is confident in its future, send out a message to retailers and companies that sheffield is an up and coming city, and that coming here is a good choice. But no, dont be daft, Sheffield cant have a building like that - so the planning permission isnt granted.

I get the feeling the current council dont want this city to flurrish, they want it to plod along like it always has. Which is a shame. Why cant we be out there with the likes of manchester, leeds, glasgow, cardiff, birmingham, and even edinburgh. Why, well if you ask the council or half the people that live here, because its sheffield and sheffield doesnt do that.

Another thing that worries me is that John Lewis, the company that I work for, is about to start building a branch in Leeds. Thats right LEEDS. And having worked in the Sheffield branch on and off for three years I konw that this is going to have an effect on weekend town custom. There are lots and lots of customers that visit John Lewis and Waitrose at the weekend from places like leeds and york. When the new leeds store opens in either 2007 or 2008, will they still venture to sheffield, I feel the answer to that is a big NO. Why would they? I certainly wouldnt if i lived near to that store, a choice between chic Leeds stores, boutiques, leading retailers, and cafe bars, or Sheffield with pound shops, phone shops and barded up shops. Which would you prefer.

The real reason Im writing is to ask, do you think sheffield is about to die? Shoould it be place on the endangered speicies list? Cos I think it should.

:shocked: John Lewis Leeds?

*reaches for coffin nails*

Until Sheffield gets the idea that people travel to shop (and I don't mean a bus ride into town), and develops a traffic management policy that enables visitors to park near to the shops, so they can get their shopping home :rant: without having to navigate a labyrinth to get there in a strange city, we're doomed to bus tickets and poundstretcher for ever :mad:

Yes John Lewis Leeds, Leicester, and Cardiff have all been announced, expect another 5 announcements (I think) this year, they want to oppen 10 more stores by 2010. Oh and the one at Trafford Centre opened in May, so maybe more people will be heading over the pennines from sheffield to shop?

I shop in Peterborough, Cheadle, Liverpool and Cambridge branches :thumbsup:
Ex-partners never lose the green tinge to their blood ;)

Must get around to taking Brude to Peter Jones :D

Originally posted by Strix
:shocked: John Lewis Leeds?

*reaches for coffin nails*

Until Sheffield gets the idea that people travel to shop (and I don't mean a bus ride into town), and develops a traffic management policy that enables visitors to park near to the shops, so they can get their shopping home :rant: without having to navigate a labyrinth to get there in a strange city, we're doomed to bus tickets and poundstretcher for ever :mad:

Spot on.

Sheffield has 2 key problems that are killing the City centre.

1 it is difficult to get where you want and then park,I never have that problem in Leeds which I dont know any where near as well as Sheffield.
(in leeds) You get on that loop thingy and there are loads of car parks (sorry but much as I prefer Sheffield to Leeds there centre is years ahead of ours.

2 Meadowhall.

It gets to me how sheffield is left behind all the time. I really want to go and give the council a good smacking, they need some sense wacked into them! I hate to say it, roll on 15th september, then its back to manchester! woohoo!!!

Ideal spot for the multi storey car park? where they took the markets down from - at the end of the parkway.

What are we getting instead? Offices :mad:

Does anybody else (who knows people who have arrived in Sheffield as strangers and got lost) think it would be a great idea to run the park and ride from here, with reduced 'day rider' tickets on Saturdays and Off-Peak for shoppers?

People could park easily, and hop around town on the tram (sprawling long thin layout that town is)

Please someone read this - sheffield city council have gone mad - they're quite prepared to knock down a victorian building which could just be renovated, than give planning permission to a high class forward thinking high rise development. oh sheffield city (or is that village) council, you make me laugh.

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/press/news/index.asp - sorry forgot to post link, i was laughing too much.

Originally posted by sheffguy86

As many of you willl have heard (I know, I bang on about it quite alot) I am a student studying in Manchester. Sheffield is my birth place and up til last september I was very content living here. But september came and I moved to the bright lights of Manchester, and I'm sorry to say I've never looked back. I somehow don't think that, even though I'm proud to be a Sheffielder (if thats how you spell it), I will ever return to Sheffield to live permenantly.

Don't look back! Be young, enjoy it, love it. Sheffield will always be a place to come back to!

Maybe we haven't seen it because of the extremely conservative council and planning department, who seem to be intimidated by bring the 21st century to south yorkshire and only giving permission to build if its under 5 stories (yes I am talking about the 32 story tower). But then again it might actually be a vast majority of the people of sheffield that have holted there own cities regeneration, thats right folks, for objecting to every single development. The peace gardens were objected to because they were cutting down trees, the hotel was objected to because you can't see the winter gardens (even though if you look on the original plans for the winter gardens you will see it clearly states this plot of land is for future development), now the tower has been objected to.

You are totally right. It seems that narrow views prevail on our council.

I know that I'm going off on a rant but I am genuinely upset about the rejection of planning permission for the tower...

I don't think it is a rant. More a reiteration of what most of us think. I believe we have been badly let down by the decision. But you do have to admit that the councillors made their move, knowing that this backlash was around the corner. They must have pretty good reasons.

Why cant we be out there with the likes of manchester, leeds, glasgow, cardiff, birmingham, and even edinburgh.

Or can we not just get on with being Sheffield?
All the cities you have mentioned have their own unique problems and troubles.

I suppose you have just mentioned the ones you have been to as examples of cities doing well, but what about; Belfast, Bristol, London?????

Another thing that worries me is that John Lewis, the company that I work for, is about to start building a branch in Leeds. Thats right LEEDS. And having worked in the Sheffield branch on and off for three years I konw that this is going to have an effect on weekend town custom. There are lots and lots of customers that visit John Lewis and Waitrose at the weekend from places like leeds and york. When the new leeds store opens in either 2007 or 2008, will they still venture to sheffield, I feel the answer to that is a big NO. Why would they? I certainly wouldnt if i lived near to that store,

Just shop and don't think about it!
John Lewis in Sheffield is about to move into a new, rather flashy home. Will you shop there when it is re-banded, or will you not be happy?

a choice between chic Leeds stores, boutiques, leading retailers, and cafe bars, or Sheffield with pound shops, phone shops and barded up shops. Which would you prefer.[/B]

Well not Leeds (or Manchester!):hihi:

Sheffguy86, i think your concerns and comments are well founded. Remember the majority of us are staying in Sheffield and want to see the city strive forward

I personally dont think Medaowhall is to blame. Look at Manchester which as both a large shopping centre (trafford) and a vibrant city centre. It's our councils way of reacting to Meadowhall.

Our city centre wont die but is getting very ill, the council do seem to stop any inventive scheme in the centre such as the large block rejected yesterday and didn't they reject Ikea which was to be located close to town? (may be wrong on location)

You are also right in that some Sheffielders are also to blame. They want cheap markets, loads of poundland type shops so they dont have to go to Meadowhall. They dont realise this is killing the centre.

As as mentioned by Deavon, regardless of the above, be proud of the city

I too am from Sheffield and live in Manchester, but I don't agree that the situation is as bad as is made out to be.

I think Sheffield city centre is a LOT better than it used to be - its much more pleasant to walk around compared to what it was like in the 80's and early 90's.

I do agree that Manchester offers more - certainly more of what I want, but like people have said before, that has its drawbacks. I don't think the city centre in Manchester is as nice to walk around as Sheffield. I think part of the problem with Sheffield though is that the streets in the centre are quite wide and the buildings low. It makes it feel less like a big city and the shops are very spread out.

I would also like to see bigger developments in the city centre - compare Manchesters' "Printworks" and "Triangle" buildings. There's nothing like that in Sheffield city centre. Piccadilly train station being close to the centre also brings thousands of young people to Manc city centre at the weeks. Sheffield train station is rather remote by comparison.

It is pleasing to see them redeveloping the station area though - as I said, I think Sheffield is much better than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Those were the decades when there was too little redevelopment and now Sheffield is having to play catch up. I certainly wouldn't say Sheffield is dying though.

I think the fact that I've lived and worked in Manchester for a number of years and still enjoy Sheffield says something positive for the city.

sheffielder born & bred, visit the city centre occasionally for the chinese buffets.theatre & that's it.
there is nothing here that i can't get elsewhere, however i stopped visiting sheffield when they increased parking charges & made it all but impossible to visit both ends of sheffield without moving the car.
i visit different cities every day & sheffield is no worse than others really.
just visited Salford( the one that's always on crime watch & neighbours from hell) & although the designer centre
left a lot to be desired the complex & experience was worth the drive.

Originally posted by Strix
Ideal spot for the multi storey car park? where they took the markets down from - at the end of the parkway.

Extract from the officers' report on the tower block:

To the south there is a car park and the Yorkshire Grey public house but the Masterplan shows that the intention is to build a multi-storey car park with ground floor retail uses on this land.

Report can be found from links on here:http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/council-meetings/planning-boards/city-centre-and-east/agenda-18th-july-2005/planning-applications

My best mate and I had a day out in Manchester a couple of weeks ago, just for the heck of it, and to have a nosey what it was like. We decided it was really, .... well... no great shakes, TBH.

Whilst the staff on the railway station (Piccadilly) were really lovely, and couldn't have done more to assist us, (we both rely on wheelchairs to get around) we both did not think much to the city centre itself.

There was a muckiness to the place, I felt, and the people we encountered seemed to be ch*v-like. (It was a bit like hanging around the stairs in the castle market, really, with the types of folk we came across)

As i said to my fella, when i finally arrived back in sheffield... "I want my six hours back!"

I managed to buy myself a nice pair of Hush Puppy sandals, and a pretty handbag, but that was about it...

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
My best mate and I had a day out in Manchester a couple of weeks ago, just for the heck of it, and to have a nosey what it was like. We decided it was really, .... well... no great shakes, TBH.
A crowd of us recently spent the weekend in Manchester on my stag night and we managed to feel intimidated and alienated on many occasions.

Sitting in one of the American fastfood outlets in the city centre we were treated to a juvenile display as a table full of "shirts & shoes" tw*ts threw their fries at all and sundry.

In the streets we were eyed by the type of person that you wouldn't open your frontdoor to.

The only places that I felt safe were the Bierkeller and Canal Street!

I worked for a national maintenance company based in Derby and i remember arguments breaking out at the yard when we were deployed to various parts of the country.
some guys would rather travel to southampton and back in a day than go to sheffield.
The point is if experienced drivers who are used to finding their way around the country baulk at the thought of driving to sheffield then how must other visitors feel.
Sheffield seems like a big town rather than a city due to its low buildings and maybe thats not a bad thing, but if you can't expand out go up. More floorspace means more jobs, assuming it's retail floorspace not office.
I'd prefer to see the old building kept but there are plenty of 60s and 70s buildings looking past their sell by date.
As Strix pointed out the old market area would have been ideal for car parking being at the end of the parkway.
For many reasons people are still prefering to use cars, Perhaps it's time the council realised.

Originally posted by Strix
Ideal spot for the multi storey car park? where they took the markets down from - at the end of the parkway.

What are we getting instead? Offices :mad:



Yes an ideal location, but visitors would have to find their way to the centre via Exchange St, Haymarket and King St. - just about the most run down area of Sheffield's retail offering. Not to mention the permanent stench of diesel exhaust and the constant din from the bus traffic.

Even with a 'park and ride' scheme the bus would logically take the Castle Gate, Waingate and Haymarket route so our exposure to ridicule would be no less diminished. :rolleyes:

Have you been down there lately ? - it's a shaming experience.

I am happy to accept that sheffield is a bit of a large town. Rather than a thrusting Big City. It is interesting to hear how little mention of the place there is when people on the national media mention northern cities, they always say manchester and leeds. Maybe we are an invisible city.
Day to day, living all my life [so far] in sheffield, it is easy to wander around, thinking that I live in a big important city. But on recent trips abroad to Proper European Cities Amsterdam, Prague and Barcelona. It makes you really ralise how small and insignificant sheffield is.

There are very few impressive large buildings, the public transport system is not good, large parts of the City Centre's shopping is appalling, but most of the people are great.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
I am happy to accept that sheffield is a bit of a large town. Rather than a thrusting Big City. It is interesting to hear how little mention of the place there is when people on the national media mention northern cities, they always say manchester and leeds. Maybe we are an invisible city.
Day to day, living all my life [so far] in sheffield, it is easy to wander around, thinking that I live in a big important city. But on recent trips abroad to Proper European Cities Amsterdam, Prague and Barcelona. It makes you really ralise how small and insignificant sheffield is.

There are very few impressive large buildings, the public transport system is not good, large parts of the City Centre's shopping is appalling, but most of the people are great.

you are comparing it to the capital cities of other countries there, is that really a fair comparison?

Originally posted by cgksheff
Extract from the officers' report on the tower block:

To the south there is a car park and the Yorkshire Grey public house but the Masterplan shows that the intention is to build a multi-storey car park with ground floor retail uses on this land.



But will it be used ?

Most Saturday mornings I witness a queue of cars stretching down Pinstone St. and back up to the roundabout at the end of Charter Row, - all waiting to get into Cole's car park.

Strangely there always seems to be plenty of room in the multi-storey car parks on Matilda Way and Norfolk St.

Do John Lewis customers get free parking ?

Originally posted by muddycoffee
I am happy to accept that sheffield is a bit of a large town. Rather than a thrusting Big City. It is interesting to hear how little mention of the place there is when people on the national media mention northern cities, they always say manchester and leeds. Maybe we are an invisible city.


I watched that C4 programme the other evening on the rise and demise of the 19th century middle classes and their achievements.

Much was made of their contribution to the public buildings and city development of Manchester, Leeds Glasgow, Birmingham and even Bradford. Not a single mention of Sheffield ;)

Originally posted by Cyclone
you are comparing it to the capital cities of other countries there, is that really a fair comparison?
Nope.
Madrid is the capital city of Spain, Barcelona is the second city.
The Hague is the Capital city of Holland, although Amsterdam is larger.

Put your point if still fair. What I was expressing was that visiting large, or even capital cities puts sheffield in the right perspective. And makes me feel more like a small town boy.

for me the issues is about growth.

The only way Shefield will grow is to get large organisations investing in it. We don't get the flagship stores other cities get.

I do most of my shopping from the net.

I hate Meadowhell and there is very little of any interest in town.

The Bottom end of the Moor is an indication of the way Sheffield is going. Cheap, bargain stores and that's it. They seem to be climbing higher and higher up.

It is very worrying.

The council needs to encourage inward investment and get more foreign companies setting up bases here. Turning down plnning applications for large ventures only shows that the council has no real ambition and are quite happy with what they have got.

Originally posted by sheffguy86
Please someone read this - sheffield city council have gone mad - they're quite prepared to knock down a victorian building which could just be renovated, than give planning permission to a high class forward thinking high rise development. oh sheffield city (or is that village) council, you make me laugh.

In this particular case the property is owned by the University, they seem to be able to do much as they please in Sheffield. Here it's maximising profit from property development. :)

did the council publish it's reasons for turning down this planning application? And has anyone written to their councillor to complain about the decision?

Originally posted by muddycoffee
I am happy to accept that sheffield is a bit of a large town. Rather than a thrusting Big City. It is interesting to hear how little mention of the place there is when people on the national media mention northern cities, they always say manchester and leeds. Maybe we are an invisible city.
Day to day, living all my life [so far] in sheffield, it is easy to wander around, thinking that I live in a big important city. But on recent trips abroad to Proper European Cities Amsterdam, Prague and Barcelona. It makes you really ralise how small and insignificant sheffield is.

There are very few impressive large buildings, the public transport system is not good, large parts of the City Centre's shopping is appalling, but most of the people are great.

Barcelona is not that big a city to be fair, but the design is fantastic! Especially the way/old and new have been integrated.

Very easy to navigate too.

Having said that even Barcelona has some very rundown squalid areas, especially down the south side towards the airport.

Surley the capital of Holland is Amsterdam.

I know government is situated in the Hague but that doesn't make it the capital City.

Why does Sheffield often get ignored? Firstly, the BBC and ITV can share a lot of the blame; both companies have their regional centres in Leeds and I don't know if other people have noticed but when I watch 'local' news I could be forgiven for believing that it is actually 'Leeds' news. Sheffield unfortunately is at the tail-end of Yorkshire so not only does it get sidelined in terms of TV but also in terms of newspapers and so on. Liverpool suffers in much the same way, as it gets overshadowed by Manchester.

When TV shows feature architecture of cities in the UK Sheffield loses out because we've knocked half of it down! Building skyscrapers won't compensate - filling in the gaps with unsympathetic buildings is what Sheffield's been good at, and it doesn't work - give it 20 years and that new building just looks scruffy. Large buildings don't attract people any more than small ones.

Sheffield is also very different to many other cities. Manchester is a 'regional hub', a small city at the centre of many towns, which is why it attracts huge numbers of shoppers. Sheffield on the other hand is surrounded by a handful of large but self-contained towns. Chesterfield is well supplied by shops and services and there is little need for people from there to venture here.

This city is also made up of a number of very distinctive, and in themselves self-contained, areas, such as Hillsborough, Woodseats, Broomhill etc. People in Sheffield do not need to use the city centre as they do in other cities, as their local areas provide most of their needs.

The idea that Sheffield is 'dying' isn't really true. We have here Hallam, the richest ward outside the South East, and house prices across the city are sky-high as housing is in demand. And don't more graduates stay on here than from any other city? That doesn't suggest a dying city to me!

As for the city centre - here's what I think they should do - from Moorfoot up to West Street should be all shops, a mixture of large and small. This would help form a triangular city centre around which shoppers could circulate - rather than a 'y' shape. In the middle could go more parking, much more. Run the tram up the Moor, and likewise from the train station up to the shops, allowing people not to have to bust their lungs to get up there.

And build a ruddy IKEA off the Parkway. :D

Originally posted by youwhatref
Our city centre wont die but is getting very ill, the council do seem to stop any inventive scheme in the centre such as the large block rejected yesterday and didn't they reject Ikea which was to be located close to town? (may be wrong on location)

They rejected the IKEA proposal because it would have gridlocked the Parkway on evenings and all weekend. There are IKEAs in Nottingham and Batley: not that far to go.

Originally posted by Cyclone
did the council publish it's reasons for turning down this planning application? And has anyone written to their councillor to complain about the decision?

I have been told that the reasons for refusal and the voting will be in the minutes of the meeting which will be published along with agenda of the next meeting (1st August).
This should be on the website around 25th/26th July.

I read in the Star last night that they'd turned down the tower application because it would have overshadowed the winter gardens and some of its collection for a couple of hours each day...:confused:

Originally posted by Fudbeer
Spot on.

Sheffield has 2 key problems that are killing the City centre.

1 it is difficult to get where you want and then park,I never have that problem in Leeds which I dont know any where near as well as Sheffield.
(in leeds) You get on that loop thingy and there are loads of car parks (sorry but much as I prefer Sheffield to Leeds there centre is years ahead of ours.

2 Meadowhall.

Manchester has the Trafford Centre, yet manchester city centre is doing far better (and is far better...) than Sheffield

Sheffield Council are actually in the process of carrying out public consultations so that they can put together a planning document covering the city's strategy for the next 15 years.

Instead of moaning on here, why not get involved and have your say?
http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your-area/planning-and-city-development/planning-documents/sdf/consultation-on-the-sdf

You've got 2 days left to comment :)

Originally posted by pberry
They rejected the IKEA proposal because it would have gridlocked the Parkway on evenings and all weekend. There are IKEAs in Nottingham and Batley: not that far to go.

the second sentence is indicative of the councils attitude and why the city isn't changing as fast as it could.
We don't want people to go to Batley or Nottingham, we want them to come here and spend money here.

If the communication links were a problem then they shoudl have invested some money (and a bit of Ikea's) and sorted it out.

Why would it have gridlocked the parkway, it is a two lane dual carrigeway, does Ikea attract so many customers elsewhere that roads are unable to cope, or is it a vast overestimation of how many people would be going there.

Off the top of my head possible measures to ease the problem would be, add an extra lane to the parkway, either one each way, or like the aston expressway (birmingham) 1 lane in the middle that can be chaned to flow either way.
Add a small extension line to the supertram, allowing use of the park and ride.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Why would it have gridlocked the parkway, it is a two lane dual carrigeway, does Ikea attract so many customers elsewhere that roads are unable to cope, or is it a vast overestimation of how many people would be going there.
Yes, I've been on the London North Circular (three-lane dual carriageway) when it's been blocked by IKEA traffic, and on the dual-carriageway near the Leeds one.

I don't think Sheffield is about to die, but it is chronically ill!

It was much closer to dying in the late nineties - most shopping units in the city centre were boarded up then, unemployment was rife and the Council (massively in debt from the World Student Games and other examples of 80's, 90's largess) was annually returning a big defecit.

Now the shops are trading, even if most of them are charity shops, and there are more jobs, even though most of those are still poorly paid, not secure and generally not ' knowledge based'. Also now the Council is regularly balancing the books which is the only way it is going to get itself into a position where it can even BEGIN to address the 20 year backlog of pothole repair, ageing street lighting, etc.

There are also bold visions of the city's future from the likes of Urban Regeneration Company - Sheffield One; their city centre masterplan promising immence improvements in urban environment, retail offer and jobs (e-campus), albeit that there seem to be big problems and delays in getting all the stakeholders to actually deliver the vision. Masterplans have also been produced by other agencies for the Lower Don Valley and Upper Don Valley with the promise of more jobs there.

But people have to be realistic. The task to drag Sheffield into this century (or even into the 1980's) is absolutely overwhelming and will take DECADES:
1) it's starting from a very low base economically and architecturally
2) too many people are trying to judge it against Leeds and Manchester, that's too high a benchmark, it will never be in that league no matter how much work is done
3) sandwiched between more populous successful regional cities like Manchester, Leeds and to a lesser extent smaller Nottingham, and with other big cities nearby (well, near in European terms) - Liverpool, Newcastle, etc. there is no need / capacity for another regional centre where Sheffield stands - this is why Sheffield's official strategy is to become an "Innovator / Producer City of European significance", and a SUB-regional centre for S. Yorks and N. Derbys, N. Notts - NOT a REGIONAL centre. This is still an ambitious target (Sheffield is not even a centre for all of South Yorks yet - Doncaster with its excellent rail connections, international airport, and the proposed new Frenchgate Shopping Centre, arguably will never look towards Sheffield for sub-regional centre functions.)
4) it has an sardonic, aged population

But looking on the bright side, there are people trying hard to improve things and there are companies with renewed confidence in the city as a place to locate, so they think there is still money to be made here.

The big problem is the attitude of the people (I hope this doesn't provoke hate mail!). They always look for someone else to blame and are always too willing to whinge without being willing to do anything about it themselves - and yes, being self-critical, that includes me. They blame the council for everything - "I live in a council flat and went to the toilet last Thursday - the Council still haven't been in to pull the flush!", or they blame the bus companies for cutting services and hiking fares when these are profit making companies whose revenue is decreasing becuase too many lazy gits are using cars and abandonning public transport, or they blame anyone in authority.

Don't get me wrong, a healthy local democracy needs it's Local Authority to be scrutinised and criticised where appropriate (and SCC have made some howlers), but not for every decision they ever make to be publicly derrided for cristicism's sake.

Every proposed development in Sheffield is met with mass scepticism and a "we don't like change round these parts" attitude from the public. I know that that's not the majority view on this forum, but this forum I don't think is representative of the general Sheffield population. I suspect that 'forumers' are generally young, solvent, computer literate, often well educated, well travelled, citizens or ex-pats of Sheffield and environs. Whereas your typical Sheffielder, is quick to comment without researching the facts, believes all the sh@t-stirring hype in a certain poorly-written local daily newspaper, has lived in the same street for 5 generations - his relatives occupying all the other houses on the street, has two GCE's in woodwork and metalwork and couldn't give a t@ss about attracting graduate jobs to the city.

Contrast this to 'NewcastleGateshead' where I now live. When major regeneration was proposed for the Quayside area (Newcastle east quayside, Millenium Bridge, Baltic Contemporary Arts Centre, Sage Gateshead Music Centre, Hilton Tyne Bridge Hotel and Conference Centre, Gateshead Quays residential scheme) it was broadly welcomed by the local populous. Okay, the Angel of the North proposal had a few knockers, but when it was actually built, like all the Quayside developments, it was fully embraced and welcomed as a massive improvement by just about everyone locally.

Numerous threads on this forum demonstrate that there is still a great civic pride amongst some people in Sheffield. The challenge now, for you who still reside there, is to use your pride, energy and enthusiasm to encourage the hard work being done by others and CONSTRUCTIVELY criticise their plans, being mindful of what can REALISTICALLY be achieved (over a LONG TIMESCALE), offer your own ideas, and be positive, so as to drag your city off the critical list!

Originally posted by Fudbeer
it is difficult to get where you want and then park,I never have that problem in Leeds which I dont know any where near as well as Sheffield.
(in leeds) You get on that loop thingy and there are loads of car parks (sorry but much as I prefer Sheffield to Leeds there centre is years ahead of ours.

Arrrgh, parking in Leeds. Although there's loads of carparks, when we visited they were mostly full and they cost a fortune. You end up going around the one-way a few times when it's busy just to find a carpark with spaces.

Leeds City Centre certainly has more shops, but some shops are repeated over and over and over. How many Topshops does one city centre need? :)

Originally posted by DanSumption
Yes, I've been on the London North Circular (three-lane dual carriageway) when it's been blocked by IKEA traffic, and on the dual-carriageway near the Leeds one.

not a regular occurence though? I wasn't saying it wouldn't happen now and then, but suggesting that it will be blocked every week is probably overstating it, no?

When I moved here six years ago, the city centre looked a lot more run down and empty. When some of the redevelopment started and some taller buildings started going up in the city, I was excited that a new golden age might be on the way, and yet a few years on, despite all the flashy appartments being built, we are no further forward.
Since then, almost every single nightclub in the city has been shut down, and historic buildings are being knocked down left, right and centre (West Street, London Road, and I'm told Spital Hill is next). Are the council getting twitchy about too much progress?
It seems to me that Sheffield has already suffered enough from two centuries of each generation's existing buildings being torn down for the sake of the next quick-fix initiative, and the cycle won't end until some serious effort gets invested.

theres no shortage of nightclubs... I'm struggling to think which ones have been closed in the last 6 years. The roxy was closed longer ago than that, and corporation kindof moved rather than closed, although the old venue was far better than the new one.

Originally posted by Cyclone
theres no shortage of nightclubs... I'm struggling to think which ones have been closed in the last 6 years. The roxy was closed longer ago than that, and corporation kindof moved rather than closed, although the old venue was far better than the new one.

Yeah, fair point. It was a bit of an exaggeration. My fave nightclubs used to be The Unit and Po-Na-Na, which are both shut. The Arches has been shut for some time too.

Originally posted by nightrider
Manchester has the Trafford Centre, yet manchester city centre is doing far better (and is far better...) than Sheffield

Free parking on Sundays and lots of on-street parking helps.

Manchester city centre is thriving on a Sunday, all the shops are open and although it does have some grubbier areas - Piccadilly Gardens and it's Wetherspoons being one - there are some wonderful places like St Ann's Square and the Triangle.

Why is an IKEA opening on your doorstep considered to be some kind of shopping/retail goal? How often do you need to buy this kind of thing? The nearest to Leeds and Manchester are considerably further out than Parkway, even Rotherham.

Originally posted by Cyclone
not a regular occurence though? I wasn't saying it wouldn't happen now and then, but suggesting that it will be blocked every week is probably overstating it, no?
I don't know, traffic has been almost unfailingly bad every time I've been near an IKEA other than on a Monday morning. Admittedly not dual-carriageway-blocking bad, but bad all the same. I hate IKEA - I love the idea, I just hate the reality - and I hope we never get one near Sheffield.

Originally posted by Bully_Beef
Yeah, fair point. It was a bit of an exaggeration. My fave nightclubs used to be The Unit and Po-Na-Na, which are both shut. The Arches has been shut for some time too.

the unit is still open, that's where corporation moved too.

The arches was a bit of a dive, I didn't realise it had closed though.
Where was Po-Na-Nas?

Originally posted by Cyclone
the unit is still open, that's where corporation moved too.


I know, but it's not the same thing.

Po-Na-Na, later known as element, was on Charter Square.
Also Brown Street and Charles Street used to be good, and they are no more. Anyway, I suppose this isn't the right thread for this... just a bit of a genral gripe.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Free parking on Sundays and lots of on-street parking helps.

Manchester city centre is thriving on a Sunday, all the shops are open and although it does have some grubbier areas - Piccadilly Gardens and it's Wetherspoons being one - there are some wonderful places like St Ann's Square and the Triangle.

why did it take shops in town so long to start opening on Sundays? It really staggered me that until a year odd ago nearly everything was shut.

Originally posted by robbie
why did it take shops in town so long to start opening on Sundays? It really staggered me that until a year odd ago nearly everything was shut.

It's kind of a self-answering question. The reason no-one used to open is because no-one else was open either, in a general culture of no-one trying to shop on a Sunday. Once key stores, which had the clout to be able to open up on Sunday, established themselves, and shoppers picked up on this, could the tide turn.

About IKEA - I think the council were very silly not to allow one to open in Sheffield. I know rather a lot of people who go shopping there regularly, hence they are taking their money to other towns (Leeds, Nottingham, Warrington) - and it's not just the cash which goes into IKEA's coffers, it's the cash which is spent on snacks/meals and other sundries when you've travelled up there.

If I remember rightly the main objection the council had about IKEA was not the traffic, but that it 'would take business away from the city centre' I fail to understand this logic. IKEA is the only place which sells those kinds of household goods for those prices, so I can't see where the business would have been siphoned from? In terms of other furnishing stores, Habitat sells the same kinds of designs (indeed is the same company) but at much higher prices and our only other options for furniture are equally overpriced such as Ponsfords or else lacking in the same design such as B&Q or Argos.

So for those of us that do like their stuff and their prices, the only option is to carry on taking our cash out of Sheffield.

But Sheffield's main problem seems to be in trying to leapfrog past other cities which aren't necessarily great anyway. Leeds is a dreadful place, sorry. When I travel through on the train I find it bleak and soulless, a real concrete jungle of endless flats and offices. The shops are full of overpriced tat and the only good thing it has is a cracking art gallery. We go on about Manchester, but remember it took a bomb to make Manchester what it is today; before that it was grim.

As opposed to the Stalinesque landscape of Leeds, Sheffield is a green city - I can look out of my windows in summer and find it hard to imagine there's a city there at all because it's hidden beneath so many trees. Long may it stay that way!

Whoever had the idea of having several bus stations though, they really want their head testing. :loopy:

Originally posted by Mathom
About IKEA - I think the council were very silly not to allow one to open in Sheffield. I know rather a lot of people who go shopping there regularly, hence they are taking their money to other towns (Leeds, Nottingham, Warrington) - and it's not just the cash which goes into IKEA's coffers, it's the cash which is spent on snacks/meals and other sundries when you've travelled up there.

If I remember rightly the main objection the council had about IKEA was not the traffic, but that it 'would take business away from the city centre' I fail to understand this logic. IKEA is the only place which sells those kinds of household goods for those prices, so I can't see where the business would have been siphoned from?

That's exactly it. We go to the Warrington Ikea which is about 20 minutes away. We don't go weekly but when we do we tend to make a day of it and go to some of the other shops and retails parks in the area too.

And so do many of my friends and family. They come over and visit Ikea, but then do lots of other things in the North West - from shopping to visiting the seaside or other tourist attractions right down to filling up with petrol (82.5p per litre if I recall my last fill up the other day). I can't say exactly how much is spent, but that's just one family's worth which isn't being spent locally.

I'm really pleased to see so many active threads on the state of Sheffield. I've made my comments known in the past and have just been shouted down. I do feel bad for leaving the city of my birth but it sadly doesn't offer me anything. But it is looking a lot better than it did when I left in 1999.

Originally posted by Greybeard
Yes an ideal location, but visitors would have to find their way to the centre via Exchange St, Haymarket and King St. - just about the most run down area of Sheffield's retail offering. Not to mention the permanent stench of diesel exhaust and the constant din from the bus traffic.

Even with a 'park and ride' scheme the bus would logically take the Castle Gate, Waingate and Haymarket route so our exposure to ridicule would be no less diminished. :rolleyes:

Have you been down there lately ? - it's a shaming experience.
Isn't all this due to be redeveloped too?

Originally posted by cgksheff
Extract from the officers' report on the tower block:

To the south there is a car park and the Yorkshire Grey public house but the Masterplan shows that the intention is to build a multi-storey car park with ground floor retail uses on this land.

Report can be found from links on here:http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/council-meetings/planning-boards/city-centre-and-east/agenda-18th-july-2005/planning-applications
:roll: but that means finding the darn thing :(

Parking needs to be located right in your face as you arrive into the city, not in the centre of it's knot of one way systems ;)

Originally posted by nightrider
Manchester has the Trafford Centre, yet manchester city centre is doing far better (and is far better...) than Sheffield

I totally aggre

My point is not that meadowhall is a reason for the centre to fail more a case of giving people a choice.

In order to attract customers you have to respect they have a choice and give them a reason to come to the centre rather than meadowhall.

This is where I think Sheffield has not even attempted to compete.

and it boils down to getting the basics right first, access and parking.

So since meadowhall has sheffield centre done much to improve parking and accessability?

In my view it is worse now than it was with less access and parking where you need it.

Why not try a few ideas to attract people back to the centre free parking on certain midweek days for instance might be a good idea.

and instead of narrowing roads and taking out meters why not look at adding some.

And just as sheffield starts to get a little busier on a sunday what do they do to encourage it start charging you for parking!

I have worked in retail for years and know storres that take more in small towns like Barnsley Chesterfield and Doncaster centres than there equivelents in Sheffield now that should not happen

While I do respect we have major traffic problems and need to encourage people to use other forms of transport when you apply this to the city centre unless you are very careful you just send people in cars to the shopping centers which is what has happened in sheffield

Originally posted by Cyclone
not a regular occurence though? I wasn't saying it wouldn't happen now and then, but suggesting that it will be blocked every week is probably overstating it, no?


Depends which day you go - Saturdays and Sundays are terrible, but if you go during the week (not possible for most) it is easier. Even so, the new IKEAS being built have learnt from their previous mistakes of not enough parking and traffic problems, and when they put in a proposal - these are all addressed, with large parking areas and multiple entrances.

Originally posted by alchresearch
That's exactly it. We go to the Warrington Ikea which is about 20 minutes away. We don't go weekly but when we do we tend to make a day of it and go to some of the other shops and retails parks in the area too.
I don't know anyone who "makes a day of it" when visiting IKEA. The experience itself is so exhausting that most are glad to get there, get through alive, and get home again.

I can't see that having an IKEA in the area would contribute much to Sheffield other than a small amount of rates, some employment (which would probably benefit Rotherham at least as much) and a lot of traffic pollution.

Having moved away from Sheff in 1990, I now live in N.Wales, so I visit L'pool.Manc, Chester on a reg basis, for shopping, beer, gigs etc. I like all these places for diff reasons, Liverpool for it's night out, and all the bars are close together (Sheff used to a hell of a trek) Manc for it's concert venue's/cosmo bars and eateries, and good old Chester for it's History and quaint bars, shops and of course it horse racing. But I must admit when I come back to Sheffield parts of it looks amazing, and definately needed a face lift, it's weird to see my old swimming baths both In Hillsborough and Glossop Rd are both now bars (let's hope the kids go somewhere better) But it'smainly around the Student end of town, where I grew up (Walkley/Commonside and Hillsborough) are real Sh*t Holes now, and rough as hell, yet house prices are sky high. The centre also looks old, perhaps Meadowhall and the tram are to blame for sucking the life out of our once bustling City Centre, and giving the consumer cheap and quick access to most places. If poundlands can afford the property rates, then why can't decent companies.
Walk from Divison St and West St down to the Moor via the backstreets and see the contrast. But it's better than it was when I left. And I still love the place and it's people. Christ me and you could put the world to rights.

I live in Sheffield but work in Doncaster a lot and from whats already happening there as well as what they are proposing to do in the future It looks like Doncaster may over take Sheffield....The airport which plans to expand in a few years is one thing thats helping Donny to grow.Other little things such as Ikea building a store as well as expanding there distribution centre all add to make Doncaster an up and coming force in South Yorkshire.

Originally posted by Strix
Isn't all this due to be redeveloped too?

Think there's a development called 'Castlegate' on the drawing board to replace the markets, - but presumably this won't happen until they move the markets to somehere down The Moor as part of the Retail Quarter scheme.

But this still leaves the other side of Waingate, [the old Town Hall/Law Courts probably has listed building status] and the Haymarket,- the former BHS store empty for ages now and the row of tatty shops opposite.

The main problem though is that the area from Fitzalan Square to Lady's Bridge is effectively a bus station in a canyon.

Originally posted by Fudbeer
I totally aggre

and instead of narrowing roads and taking out meters why not look at adding some.


I noticed the re-vamp of Norfolk street will result in a reduction to a third of the former number of parking bays, and these will all be 'disabled only'.

I think Sheffielders moan way too much about the state of the city compared to other places. Yes, in terms of shops it's behind places like Leeds, but the city centre (except castle markets) looks a lot nicer then many other centres. It's cleaner and feels more open. Also, there are more individual shops appearing around West Street and division Street, and with H&M moving in and Cole Bro's getting a new shop I think the future looks more positive then it did a few years ago. Look at the area around the peace gardens, even if the new building is nowt special to look at it's way better then what it was like before.

And have you ever driven around the suburbs in Leeds and Manchester? Many are really run down and grimey compared to the suburbs here, we have more nicer areas then many other cities, and even the crap areas of Sheffield are nowhere near as bad as the crap parts of Leeds and Manchester.

Compared to how the centre used to look I think Sheffield's improved a lot, and there are lots more upmarket bars then there used to be.

I've stayed in Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, London, and Liverpool and I have to say I prefer Sheffield to Leeds and Manchester in terms of feeling safe and the way the city looks. Liverpool is a really nice city and I think the nightlife's better there then in Leeds and Manchester. I've just spent two weeks working in Manchester and I was so relieved when I got back to Sheffield. I used to love getting out of Sheffield but now I'm enjoying it for what it is, and I appreciate it a lot more then I used to.

It is exactly three years on since this thread was running and a lot has changed in Sheffield - or has it?

How does everyone feel about the changes in the last couple of years? Good, bad, ugly?

Do we have a more vibrant city than we did three years ago? Are the foundations set for a brighter future? Is Sheffield about to die?

Well the NRQ is actually getting somewhere, so that is a start.

I think we might be stuck with a lot of half built blocks of flats in the near future though. They seem to keep building new ones despite the fact they aren't selling.

As many of you willl have heard (I know, I bang on about it quite alot) I am a student studying in Manchester. Sheffield is my birth place and up til last september I was very content living here. But september came and I moved to the bright lights of Manchester, and I'm sorry to say I've never looked back.

Your points about the development of Sheffield notwithstanding your opinion that you probably won't return doesn't add much - I did exactly the opposite of you - born in Manchester, raised in Didsbury (which if you are a student can't be far from you - it's like being brought up in Hunters Bar for those unfamiliar with Manchester) but went to University in Sheffield. I can't say I didn't return to Manchester as I bought a house there, but I've sold it now, and Sheffield is my home.

Sheffield is a beautiful place that somehow still feels like a village. Manchester has better shops if you want big names. There is nowhere in Manchester like Ecclesall Road though.

I think if they had actually built the M67 all the way from Manchester to Sheffield rather than stopping just after Stockport Sheffield would be better off.