When I got our S/T I asked if there was a designated family area and was told there wasn't. Now I understand there is one.

At yesterdays game we arrived at our seats for the first time, just in front of 18-yard box and up near to the back. Before kick-off it was apparent that there were a lot of kids in the same area(don't now if they are S/T holders yet).

At kick-off three youths in front of us insisted on standing up, eventually after a bit of persuasion they sat down before moving to the back.

To our right there were loads of people having a good time stood up.

I don't want to be a killjoy over this, in fact I'd probably prefer standing myself. But the kids (and there were plenty) can't see a thing when people do this.

Any thoughts on what should be done, should Stewards make them sit down, should those who want to sit move seats (happened a lot yesterday) or should we just designate the right half of the North Stand to people wanting to stand and ask the Stewards to turn a blind eye.

Being 6ft 2in and my lad being 6ft 4in we'd both like a return to terraces for those who prefer them - majority of seats still don't have enough leg room - nothing intrinsically unsafe about terraces as long as they don't become overcrowded.

Terraces should never have been taken away in the first place . they still have them in the lower leagues and they arnt dangerous . it was just a knee jerk reaction to the Hillsbro disaster to ban them in the top leagues.

Terraces should never have been taken away in the first place . they still have them in the lower leagues and they arnt dangerous . it was just a knee jerk reaction to the Hillsbro disaster to ban them in the top leagues.

theyre not dangerous in the lower leagues cos they dont have big crowds.
it isnt just the safety side of things to why the ban terraces, its that they are very hard to police. as if someone does something wrong, they can dissapear into the crowd and you cant just ban there ticket (like you can now do with the elctronic ones).

i go with my dad who has to sit down due to injuries recieved at work which means he cant stand up longer than a few minutes. its also the reason we moved from the kop (as everyone stands up there) to the family enclosure at the lane.

i dont think most people stand up by choice. all it takes is one man to be stood up to create a knock on effect behind him. if he stands up people behind cant see so they stand up, and so on. its not really fair to kids or the elderly.

Terraces should never have been taken away in the first place . they still have them in the lower leagues and they arnt dangerous . it was just a knee jerk reaction to the Hillsbro disaster to ban them in the top leagues.

I can't believe you think that resonding to the death of almost 100 people is a 'knee jerk' reaction! It's twice as surprising as you're a Wednesday fan.

I do think it is much safer now, as well as cleaner (I can remember the days when people didn't think you had to walk all the way to the toilets when there were all those posts on the Kop) and you have a better chance of seeing all the action. There has been a loss of atmosphere but I think that has been over the last 15 years because there wasn't much of a loss of atmosphere when seats were first brought in, in my opinion.

I can't believe you think that resonding to the death of almost 100 people is a 'knee jerk' reaction! It's twice as surprising as you're a Wednesday fan.

I do think it is much safer now, as well as cleaner (I can remember the days when people didn't think you had to walk all the way to the toilets when there were all those posts on the Kop) and you have a better chance of seeing all the action. There has been a loss of atmosphere but I think that has been over the last 15 years because there wasn't much of a loss of atmosphere when seats were first brought in, in my opinion.

In regard to Hillsborough disaster we all know what happened (dont' want to start another debate on it), but it wasn't down to standing. A major reason in the deaths was the fencing amongst other things. Germany still have standing and actually offer these really cheaply, hence why a lot of the clubs get large crowds.

In regard to Hillsborough disaster we all know what happened (dont' want to start another debate on it), but it wasn't down to standing. A major reason in the deaths was the fencing amongst other things. Germany still have standing and actually offer these really cheaply, hence why a lot of the clubs get large crowds.

Yeah, but unfortunatly without the fences the crowds come onto the pitch. Seating is the safest answer. Also, standing was partly to blame, as unlike with seating you don't have an exact figure on how many people can get in.

Yeah, but unfortunatly without the fences the crowds come onto the pitch. Seating is the safest answer. Also, standing was partly to blame, as unlike with seating you don't have an exact figure on how many people can get in.

dont the turnstiles still have counters on them like to count the crowd like they was in the old terracs days ?

crowds can get onto the [pitch in all seater stadium ,so no real difference there

Im 6ft 3 and have a major problem with sitting down in the ground as the seats are set up for avarage joe. I would love to be able to stand all game as it resolves my problem, so its thumbs up from me.

If its a great game i stop to the end, more often than not the game is sealed by the last five mins and its then a race to beat the traffic, as i usually park 30 yrd from the ground a quick exit is required. As i reach the car the final whistle has usually gone.

Im 6ft 3 and have a major problem with sitting down in the ground as the seats are set up for avarage joe. I would love to be able to stand all game as it resolves my problem, so its thumbs up from me.

At 6ft 3 it would be hard to see for the poor fan immediately behind you.
I think part of the problem with standing was the sway that could easily start when 3 people moved the same way, and if the sway went forwards and down it was no fun for the person leaning on the crush barrier.
And it's much harder to invade the pitch if you've got to leave your seat and make your way down the gangway.
So all those fans who invaded the pitches in the 70s and 80s brought about all seater stadia, as much, if not more, than the Hillsborough tragedy.

dont the turnstiles still have counters on them like to count the crowd like they was in the old terracs days ?

crowds can get onto the [pitch in all seater stadium ,so no real difference there

Part of the reason for having seats is to avoid overcrowding, as you may be able to count how many people go in, but it is quite hard to know how many can comfortably and safely be let in. Also, in the case of Hillsborough, there would have been no point in thousands of people trying to force their way in because they would have nowhere to go, unlike in a standing area.

Yes, crowds can, and do, get onto the pitch in an all seater stadium, but i'm sure even you can see the difference. It is nowhere near as easy for thousands of people to get onto the pitch because there are seats in the way! Also, if it was standing people can push forward from behind and cause people to fall and get trampled on, but this doesn't happen with seats.

Like I said before, It was a great atmosphere and i'm glad i've stood on the Kop and stood in the away end at places like Old Trafford, but I think it is much safer to have seats and encourages a more friendly and family atmosphere. I think we have moved on from the days of being treated like cattle.

Tend to find usually it's the away fans that seem to insist on standing - for example, at the derby at the Lane in February, I don't think a single owls fan sat down in the whole game (looked that way from JSS anyway!). And at Wembley, you just get that chain reaction when one stands up, the person behind then has to, and on and on until they either get shouted down, or you all stand up. It's fine if there's a shot on goal as you expect it, it's just more annoying when it's throughout the game - especially if you've paid a significant amount to sit! :)

As far as deaths at football go, apart from the Bradford fire (when it probably hindered safety having people trying to get out from rows of seats), have pretty much all of the tragedies been related to terracing? I think Ibrox was a little different, as it was fans leaving the game hearing a goal scored, tried to stop and caused problems in the gangways?

If its a great game i stop to the end, more often than not the game is sealed by the last five mins and its then a race to beat the traffic, as i usually park 30 yrd from the ground a quick exit is required. As i reach the car the final whistle has usually gone.

did you mean to post this on here:huh:. think it was meant for the leaving early thread:thumbsup:
as for standing at games i don't have a problem sitting. to be honest if we are playing poor and theres nothing much to cheer about then i'd rather be sat down. i have never experienced standing at games so i have nothing to compare it to anyway but i would rather my kids be safer at a football game and all seater stadiums surely are safer

I can't believe you think that resonding to the death of almost 100 people is a 'knee jerk' reaction! It's twice as surprising as you're a Wednesday fan.


Most things that are done in response to a disaster are knee-jerk reactions with no sensible thought behind them. The fact that it required a response, doesn't automatically mean that whatever response the Goverment came up with was a good one.

I think they should bring back the terraces. I hate sitting down.There was much more atmosphere in the grounds before these crap all seater stadia.

Terraces should never have been taken away in the first place . they still have them in the lower leagues and they arnt dangerous . it was just a knee jerk reaction to the Hillsbro disaster to ban them in the top leagues.

Totally disagree.
Been to many away grounds back in the day of terracing and seen innocent people hurt when the fighting broke out.
Not every one wanted to be caught up in the fighting and running etc in the days before seats and segregation.
Dad's can now take their kids to matches in relative safety as opposed to when it was terracing and everyone was fair game.
People stand up at matches especially the away fans as was pointed out and if you dont like it ask a steward to get them to sit down.
All seater stadiums were not a knee jerk reaction to Hillsborough, It was because of many people sadly losing their lives and a Goverment trying to make football grounds safer for everyone

No- why risk another tradegy lile hillsborough- its a pointless debate anyway as it will NEVER happen- you will never see standing back in england again- and i think its a good thing.

No- why risk another tradegy lile hillsborough


The argument is that terracing wasn't responsible, and therefore it isn't automatically a risk. If you deny the argument, at least present some sort of reasoning for doing so.

The argument is that terracing wasn't responsible, and therefore it isn't automatically a risk. If you deny the argument, at least present some sort of reasoning for doing so.

It was decided by the Taylor report after Hillsborough (which took months and so I still don't consider a knee-jerk reaction) that standing on football terraces isn't 'intrinsically unsafe', and I don't think the fact that there was standing terracing caused any deaths but if you look at both Hillsborough and Heysel neither would have happened in a modern ground. I think that is reason enough for losing a bit of atmosphere and saving some lives, not to mention the other advantages that have already been mentioned.

The argument is that terracing wasn't responsible, and therefore it isn't automatically a risk. If you deny the argument, at least present some sort of reasoning for doing so.

Ok then, my argument is this- if the leppings lane end had been all-seater- do you think the tradegy would have happened?

Ok then, my argument is this- if the leppings lane end had been all-seater- do you think the tradegy would have happened?

If the coppers opened the gates on the lepp while it was seasted to that many thousand fan's it would have been an even bigger disaster than what happened.

Ok then, my argument is this- if the leppings lane end had been all-seater- do you think the tradegy would have happened?

If football was banned from taking place, it would not have happened. Do you argue that football should be banned? Based on this logic, you should do.

If the coppers opened the gates on the lepp while it was seasted to that many thousand fan's it would have been an even bigger disaster than what happened.

Compleatly disagree- there wouldn't have been room for all them fans to surge forward as the seats would have stopped them- hense stopping the crush at the front on the fence.

Compleatly disagree- there wouldn't have been room for all them fans to surge forward as the seats would have stopped them- hense stopping the crush at the front on the fence.

I concur. Plus with seats, the numbers in the ground can be more accurately monitored, there probably wouldn't be as many forgeries knocking about (people with forged standing tickets would have been indistinguishable once they'd entered, whereas with seats the problems would easily come to light), and people would check their tickets (if they had one) to see where they were sat, instead of piling straight into the nearest gangway/tunnel.

If football was banned from taking place, it would not have happened. Do you argue that football should be banned? Based on this logic, you should do.

You asked me to argue that the terracing was responsible and i said it was and said that it wouldn't have happened if there were seats there.

You can never eliminate risk- you can only reduce it- seats do that extremely well in my opinion and football is a much game as a whole better because of them.

Compleatly disagree- there wouldn't have been room for all them fans to surge forward as the seats would have stopped them- hense stopping the crush at the front on the fence.

If there were several thousand fan's surging through a tunnel of that narrowness then seats would have crushed them even more.
The problem was not the terrace been seated or not, it was the fact the coppers opened the gate to all the fans which then caused a crush, it's really simple to be fair m8.
The place was majorly overcrowded, never mind what was on that terrace people were gonna die once those gates were opened.
There was crushing outside the stadium aswell and that has nothing to do with weather a stadium was seated or not.
The coppers failed big time and they know it.

There is a place for standing in football grounds, the Wednesday fans travelling to Peterborough on Saturday will have mostly terracing behind the goal not seating !

Theres still plenty of standing being done around Britains football grounds.

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Just got to the back of the kop, at the lane people stand 4/5 rows from the back, kids stand on the seats if they cant see, everyones happy and it's a great atmosphere.