View Full Version : New Anti-Terror Laws to be introduced


Delboy3
19-07-2005, 05:52
The Government plans to create new criminal offences of inciting terrorism and of giving or receiving training in terrorist techniques, Home Office minister Hazel Blears announced tonight.



In a letter to opposition spokesmen released to the media, the minister said the aim of the new offences was to allow suspects to be prosecuted before they committed atrocities.

It will become an offence to give or receive training in the use of hazardous substances. The definition of what constitutes a hazardous substance will be based on international conventions, she said. The offence of providing or receiving training would apply to those who had undergone such activities in the UK and abroad.

She also confirmed plans to introduce a new offence of "acts preparatory to terrorism" and another to criminalise those inciting terrorism indirectly.

This morning Sir Ian Blair, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said that creating a new offence of committing acts preparatory to terrorism was "at the top of my wish list" in the fight against terrorists. At present police were trying to combat 21st Century terrorism with 19th Century laws, he said, and as a result had had limited success in bringing prosecutions.

In April Kamel Bourgass was convicted of attempting to produce the deadly plant poison ricin to mount an attack on the British public, but the trial was surrounded by recriminations after other defendants were acquitted.

Sir Ian added that as many as 250 British Muslim men who had received training in terror techniques at al-Qaeda camps in areas such as Afghanistan were currently under watch by the security services.

An offence of committing acts preparatory to terrorism is an idea that has long been backed by the Conservatives, but has previously been ruled out by the Government. This week, however, Tony Blair gave his backing to the notion of identifying and deporting radical imams who preached hatred of the West and glorified terrorists.

Today Ms Blears confirmed that the offence of indirect incitement to commit terrorism would have a wide-ranging effect, applying to both public and private statements.

"It would apply where people would seek to glorify terrorist activity, perhaps, for example, it’s saying ’it’s a marvellous thing that this has happened, these people are martyrs’. Not a direct incitement to go out and do so but it could be construed by people hearing that as an endorsement of terrorism."

The minister said: "It’s very difficult to give examples of this. It would depend on what words we used, were they an endorsement, were they a glorification?

"In some cases the tone of your endorsement might take it into glorification. What we’re trying to get to here is that where people know the things that they say are likely to incite people then the criminal offence should be sufficient for them to be prosecuted."

Asked if the incitement offence would apply to preachers or Imams, the minister said: "Yes, if somebody is within the required intention of doing things which would be an indirect incitement to terrorism, then whoever they are they will be charged with a criminal offence and the court would decide on their guilt or innocence."

Looking at terrorist-themed websites would not necessarily be a criminal act under the new training offence, she said. But the minister said anyone who looked at such material and then went on to prepare for an act of terrorism, for example, by purchasing chemicals or explosives, would be snared by the new offence of committing acts preparatory to terrorism.



I take it that should these proposals become law by the end of the year, The human rights brigade and the do gooders society will be screaming their heads off about the liberty of the ones that do get arrested.

Before anyone say's that these laws will be wrong.....just reflect,
The human rights of the people that died and maimed due to a terrorist attack, not only here, but also abroad.

JoeP
19-07-2005, 06:18
The only reservation I have with these laws is that they frame them correctly. Badly set up laws are worse than useless; they provide a 'Get out of Jail' free card for everyone who's busted using them.

The gun legislation bought in after Dunblane has had next to no impact on gun crime, and the main impact has been on law abiding gun owners and shooters.

My main concern is with the 'acts preparatory to terrorism' clause - downloading bomb recipes from the Internet, etc. What if you're a chemist or journalist doing genuine research? A historian studying the Intifada in Israel? When does that become 'preparing to be a terrorist'? Unless carefully drawn up this will be a laughing stock law. The other aspects of the proposed legislation are good, though.

Changes are needed - what I find amazing is that even now, whe it should be possible to use existing incitement laws against some of the more inflammatory speakers, these people are still finding a platform and being allowed in to the UK.

The irony is, of course, that at least one of the bombers has passed across MI5's radar, but they didn't feel him worthy of keeping an eye on. Doesn't matter what laws you enact if your intelligence services are not going to act on the intelligence.

Joe

Delboy3
19-07-2005, 17:45
Originally posted by JoeP
The only reservation I have with these laws is that they frame them correctly. Badly set up laws are worse than useless; they provide a 'Get out of Jail' free card for everyone who's busted using them.

The gun legislation bought in after Dunblane has had next to no impact on gun crime, and the main impact has been on law abiding gun owners and shooters.

My main concern is with the 'acts preparatory to terrorism' clause - downloading bomb recipes from the Internet, etc. What if you're a chemist or journalist doing genuine research? A historian studying the Intifada in Israel? When does that become 'preparing to be a terrorist'? Unless carefully drawn up this will be a laughing stock law. The other aspects of the proposed legislation are good, though.

Changes are needed - what I find amazing is that even now, whe it should be possible to use existing incitement laws against some of the more inflammatory speakers, these people are still finding a platform and being allowed in to the UK.

The irony is, of course, that at least one of the bombers has passed across MI5's radar, but they didn't feel him worthy of keeping an eye on. Doesn't matter what laws you enact if your intelligence services are not going to act on the intelligence.

Joe
I do agree with your post....there are good and bad elements within their propositions but I would say that they have a very hard job trying to descipher what would be genuine research and what would be used off the internet to make bombs for terrorist activities.

WE do need laws that cannot be manipulated by the do gooders as with the existing incitement law, this seems to be directed at the English people as opposed to being used for everyone.

MI5 as you so rightly have stated did miss out with one of the bombers but we Have not been given the full story and if MI5 did have something to question this one about, surely there was some reasoning behind this decision to do so.
As with a lot of information we are fed, some is not exactly as black and white as it seems.

The situation where detention without trial for suspected terrorists has been found to be against their human rights, I would imagine that this has created a problem for our intelligence agencies to do much anyway, as the cry of racism or unfair detention would conclude with the taxpayer being sued.

No one can say just who is and is not a terrorist as they work together in secrecy yet seem to live normal lives.
The only way to try and stop them would be to detain and deport those that are found to be extreme in their views regarding their beliefs that others should be killed for being different.
Ie, Abu Hamza, Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi etc.

1Man&hisBMW
19-07-2005, 17:49
Its only useful if they catch them before they go and blow themselves and other to pieces. Intelligence I would say is the key.

Don_Kiddick
19-07-2005, 17:52
It would appear deterrants are Pretty much set in stone (http://www.office-humour.co.uk/g/i/3046/ ) :hihi:

Delboy3
19-07-2005, 17:57
Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
It would appear deterrants are Pretty much set in stone (http://www.office-humour.co.uk/g/i/3046/ ) :hihi: Good one Don, I don't think they can read English that good though..LMAO
To them...It translates as...Welcome Home