Is there anyone here who knows much about JSA?

My partner has been a carpenter for the last five years working for a small building firm on a self-employed basis. During that time he's still been paying tax and National Insurance (type 2). He was unfortunately laid off in Feb due to the building firm not having enough work anymore and hasn't worked since. He's been going to the job centre on a fortnightly basis for the last couple of months and waiting for his claim to be processed. Last week he was told he's not entitled to JSA because he's not paid enough type 1 National Insurance contributions. This seems absolute madness to me, especially when I was allowed to claim JSA for a week between leaving Uni and finding a job, when I'd not paid any NI at all! And gets worse - they've just told him that although he can't get JSA, he could get income support.... oh wait no he can't because I work 30 hours a week (the limit is 24, and it doesn't take into account salary apparently).

What's he supposed to do then? And what's the point of him going to the job centre every fortnight when he's actively seeking work from home anyway.

What a frustrating system!

There's two types of JSA - contributions based and income based.

NI contributions aren't fully counted when self-employed. I don't know the ins and outs of this but when I was looking to claim this is something I came across as I was previously self-employed. It's likely that he isn't eligible for contributions based even if he's paid hundreds of pounds.

This means he'll have to go for income based. Unfortunately, he's not eligible for this as it takes the partner's income in to account too. As you have rightly said, if the partner works for more than 24 hours per week then he will not be able to claim income based either.

Did your partner work just for the one employer?

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/WorkingAgeBenefits/Dev_015272.xml.html

This might also help explain.

Hi Dave,

Yeah for the last 3 years he worked for one firm and for two years before that for another guy. Before that he worked in Homebase, which I presume would be type 1 contributions, but obviously insufficient or too long ago I suppose.

Pretty shocking situation to end up in really and I bet a lot of people don't know about this either - remind me never to become self-employed!

I don't know if this will help, but I remember a big thing the Tax people were touting for a bit last year. Basically, they were saying that if you are self-employed but only work for one person, then you're not self-employed. I think they were doing it to catch out dodgy business practices like skimping on employer NI contributions and paying minimum wage.

If you phone the tax people you *might* be able to have a look at the contributions and your circumstances to see if they'll allow it to be counted towards the contributions-based JSA. This isn't something I've done before so you might not be able to do this, but if I was in your position I'd give it a go - it can't make things worse! If the old employer had employed your partner in the way they should have done you would have been able to claim contributions JSA.

Situation Resolved

With regard to Dave Kerrs comment, does anyone know that, if while being self employed and working for one client only the Class 2 & 4 N.I. contributions could count towards receiving benefit.
Many Thanks

Class 2 and 4 NI contributions count towards your state pension and possibly other benefits too but not JSA, regardless of the number of clients at any particular instant.

To qualify for JSA you need to pay class 1 contributions which means you were an employee. which means that you should have been paid via a PAYE acheme and your employer should also have been paying class 1a contributions in respect of your employment.

I think Dave is referring to the IR35 legislation which was intended to clamp down on the practice of genuine employees pretending to be self employed in order for the employer, in particular, to avoid paying NI contributions. It is a pretty terrible piece of legislation which has forced genuinely self employed people to pretend to be employees and so pay unnecessary NI contributions. In many ways this is a consequence of the obsession that increasing the basic rate of income tax will cause the universe to end, which in turn has resulted in NI being increased and the rise of the so called "stealth taxes" as the government has tried to balance its books.

With regard to Dave Kerrs comment, does anyone know that, if while being self employed and working for one client only the Class 2 & 4 N.I. contributions could count towards receiving benefit.
Many Thanks

Following on from my last post....

I should have put that if you wanted to argue that you were employed during the period you only had one client then your opening your client and yourself up to possibility of an investigation by HMRC, a court case, the NI you and your employer should have paid, interest and penalties.

There is no legal definition of self-employment and whether or not you are classed as self employed while working for a particular client depends on the exact wording of the contract between you and the client.

Guys I just found myself in the same position and I'm so angry!
Ive been self-employed since August 2004, ive just had to quit this line of work becuase its dried up, nothing at all, thanks to this wonderful recession. Ive spoken to the Job Center and they inform me I cannot claim JSA as Ive paid no Class 1 for some years, and I cant claim income based because my partner works full time. On top of that, the college course I was going to start in September, I no longer can, because it costs £1700 full price, and I was going to get the reduced fee of £105 as I was going to get JSA. Wonderful, no help from anyone whatsoever, im left to pay for everything while unemployed and expected to live from one partners wages.

By the way, if you go and commit a low level crime and get community supervision, then you will be entitled to get onto a variety of courses incl Railtrack etc. Or if you are an asylum seeker you will be found a house and help into work/benefits. Thankyou Government, what the #### did i pay my contributions and my taxes for, a stab in the back. I really feel for you other people out there stuck in the same position.

Guys I just found myself in the same position and I'm so angry!
Ive been self-employed since August 2004, ive just had to quit this line of work becuase its dried up, nothing at all, thanks to this wonderful recession. Ive spoken to the Job Center and they inform me I cannot claim JSA as Ive paid no Class 1 for some years, and I cant claim income based because my partner works full time. On top of that, the college course I was going to start in September, I no longer can, because it costs £1700 full price, and I was going to get the reduced fee of £105 as I was going to get JSA. Wonderful, no help from anyone whatsoever, im left to pay for everything while unemployed and expected to live from one partners wages.

By the way, if you go and commit a low level crime and get community supervision, then you will be entitled to get onto a variety of courses incl Railtrack etc. Or if you are an asylum seeker you will be found a house and help into work/benefits. Thankyou Government, what the #### did i pay my contributions and my taxes for, a stab in the back. I really feel for you other people out there stuck in the same position.

Hi Doncastrian,

Good Luck

My advice to anybody is leave school at 16, act daft, keep getting the sack, prove you are unemployable and live happily ever after on the state.
Why not ??? Beats working for a living.
I think its called 'playing the system'.

I'm really sorry to hear there are so many other people in the same situation - it's an awful one to be in.

Struggling to see the rationale behind it myself - do you pay less NI when you're self-employed? If so, is it to encourage people to working as self-employed, opening their own businesses etc?

Especially sorry to hear about your situation MrF - I wonder where the NI you paid has gone to :(

Seeing as you work 30 hours, you may be able to claim Working Tax Credit. The JSA system as it is has been in place for years, and never has anyone in a couple been able to claim Income Based JSA when they work 30 hours between them.

Get in touch with HMRC.

As for JSA not taking into account a salary, or more accurately a household income, you misunderstand the rules. As soon as a couple work more than 24 hours per week, they are automatically excluded from Income Based JSA. However, as you work 30 hours, you should be able to get some help through Tax Credits.

Guys I just found myself in the same position and I'm so angry!
Ive been self-employed since August 2004, ive just had to quit this line of work becuase its dried up, nothing at all, thanks to this wonderful recession. Ive spoken to the Job Center and they inform me I cannot claim JSA as Ive paid no Class 1 for some years, and I cant claim income based because my partner works full time. On top of that, the college course I was going to start in September, I no longer can, because it costs £1700 full price, and I was going to get the reduced fee of £105 as I was going to get JSA. Wonderful, no help from anyone whatsoever, im left to pay for everything while unemployed and expected to live from one partners wages.

By the way, if you go and commit a low level crime and get community supervision, then you will be entitled to get onto a variety of courses incl Railtrack etc. Or if you are an asylum seeker you will be found a house and help into work/benefits. Thankyou Government, what the #### did i pay my contributions and my taxes for, a stab in the back. I really feel for you other people out there stuck in the same position.

Again, get in touch with HMRC. You may get help if you qualify for Tax Credits. Help is there.

Again, get in touch with HMRC. You may get help if you qualify for Tax Credits. Help is there.

Hi, I did, and no i don't qualify. For working tax credit you have to be aged over 25, im 24. Under none of our circumstances do we qualify for any benefit. Im now looking for any job I can get, part or full time just to get some money in to pay the bills and mortgage. Good luck all

This might be useful to some people: http://www.entitledto.co.uk/

I'm really sorry to hear there are so many other people in the same situation - it's an awful one to be in.

Struggling to see the rationale behind it myself - do you pay less NI when you're self-employed? If so, is it to encourage people to working as self-employed, opening their own businesses etc?

Especially sorry to hear about your situation MrF - I wonder where the NI you paid has gone to :(

if you operate as a sole trader, you tax and NI is calculated differently. The total class 2 and 4 contributions are substantially less than the class 1 contributions that an employee and employer pay through the PAYE scheme.

Class 2 and 4 contributions establish an entitlement to several other benefits including the state pension but excluding contribution based jsa.

anyone working as a sole trader should be aware that they are excluded from contribution based jsa and its predecessor benefits (income support, dole etc) as they always have been.

Can you claim if you have just left uni?

You can claim if you have left Uni but your course has to have finished not just on summer hols (unless you've got kids).