I think it provides a pretty awful service. Most of the books are ancient and the choice is poor. Do others use it often?/what do you think?

For a library in one of the largest cities in the country its not good enough imo.

I used to borrow books, but like you said they haven't bought a new book for about 20 years.

A librarian once told me that for every book sitting on the shelves there were at least two out on loan. They do seem to spend too much on pulp fiction and scandalous biographies and far too little on non-fiction.

OTOH the last two books I requested on inter-library loan they actually purchased for the central library, but it can take months because they use a national library purchasing service instead of Amazon.

To see what's available I'd suggest using the on-line portal at

http://hip.sheffield.gov.uk/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=1C21JX7740265.42&profile=dial--2&menu=search&submenu=power&ts=1121687740265

where I usually reserve a title rather than relying on the chance that the book is in stock when I visit the library.

doesn't inter-library cost 50p?

my issue is that the books are almost all the old hardback ones.

I know someone who works in a library in an average sized US town and they have several copies of one Album in their library..

there are 400,000 + people in Sheffield and a good library would encourage adults and children to read more. Improving literacy and giving kids something to do.

Most of the reference books seem to be from the 70's/80's

In addition to the points raised, the layout (especially that of the fiction section) is appalling.

The central library needs some serious money spending on it to even bring it level with the sort of libraries you'll find in most small market towns.

Originally posted by robbie
there are 400,000 + people in Sheffield and a good library would encourage adults and children to read more. Improving literacy and giving kids something to do.

I'd like to think this was true, but in a city where it's born and bred residents have a habit of refering to it's green spaces as 'wasteland' :loopy: I'm beginning to give up hope :(

It's inbred. If reading is scorned by parents, children will be unwilling to take it up as a hobby. Those that will, do already. :(

Shattering the pre-conceptions of libraries is the key to tackling this problem, and Sheffield is re-aligning it's libraries into community learning centres, which can only be a good thing

Arguably the biggest literacy problem sheffield has is it's second generation immigrant population for whom English is still the second language (kids starting school with minimal grasp of English). Much of the library funding appears to be trying to address this problem :thumbsup:

Originally posted by robbie
doesn't inter-library cost 50p?
I know someone who works in a library in an average sized US town and they have several copies of one Album in their library..


Perhaps a policy similar to Blockbuster would help? When a popular title is released, many copies could be made available, then sold at a reduced price 6 or 12 months later

Originally posted by nick2
I used to borrow books, but like you said they haven't bought a new book for about 20 years.


Well I just did a quick check. Two of Amazon's recently published top selling biographies -

The Two of Us: My Life with John Thaw - Sheila Hancock
Sheffield libraries - 20 copies available [4 large print]

Mao: The Unknown Story - Jung Chang, Jon Halliday
Sheffield libraries - 3 copies available, a further copy on order.

Robbie, - yes ILL costs 50p as do stock reservations, most of the cost is taken up with sending you a letter to advise when the book is available for collection, even though you can use the portal to check for yourself.

As Strix points out many of the suburban libraries have been turned into community learning centres, but this means usually less shelf space for books so less choice for those who use the library just to borrow books.

The central library of course is just too small for the demands placed on it and perhaps it is time for alternative accomodation to be found for the art collection and display gallery on the top floor. It also desperately needs much better disabled acces than the present arrangements.

Libraries and reading rooms were invented to allow the public access to the primary information source of the day.

In modern times we have a tv in every room and internet access has superceded everything else as the greatest information source.

Given this scenario, the council would be justified in reducing the book stock and dedicating more funds to technology.


*goes to find hyperlinks about commercial libraries from the past - just for interest*

I think Sheffield Library Service offers an average service - I have been to worse libraries but I think they could certainly do better.

As has been said, the choice of non-fiction / reference is appalling and the fiction is mostly trash.

However, Sheffield is lucky to have so many community libraries. In my home town, nearly all community libraries are being closed. I had to watch in horror as the library where I spent a good proportion of my childhood was bulldozed and the land used for housing.

More funding is required from the government (as always) particularly as library borrowing and attendance figures for the past year are at the highest for a few years.

My biggest gripe is the access issues surrounding the children's library. I have stood at the back door (which isn't well identified) ringing the bell for up to 20 mins to be let in and then having to push my way through boxes and binbags etc. Not a good first impression of this library service.

The predecessor to the internet cafe:

http://www.boots-plc.com//information/info.asp?Level3ID=39

Didn't the labour party introduce libraries in the 20's/30's to educate the miners.
Ive got a recollection of reading about the welsh miners who could not read or write using the libraies to educate themselves
The libraries being provided by the socialist party.
I thought that libraries were one of their flagships.
Perhaps one of our councillers will put me right.

hazel

I think the library service in Sheffield is pretty good.

The central library is not up to much and pretty inacessible for those with prams and wheelchairs. I took my daughter into town to use the library and was told to use the lift (which is round on the Arundel Gate side) the said lift was out of order so we'd had it!

However there are 3 libraries close to me, Gleadless, Manor and Crystal Peak and all offer an excellent service and range of books.

My husband is from London and couldn't get over how good our libraries are and was amazed to see a mobile library. Most cities are knocking off such services.

Originally posted by Strix
I'd like to think this was true, but in a city where it's born and bred residents have a habit of refering to it's green spaces as 'wasteland' :loopy: I'm beginning to give up hope :(

It's inbred. If reading is scorned by parents, children will be unwilling to take it up as a hobby. Those that will, do already. :(

Shattering the pre-conceptions of libraries is the key to tackling this problem, and Sheffield is re-aligning it's libraries into community learning centres, which can only be a good thing

Arguably the biggest literacy problem sheffield has is it's second generation immigrant population for whom English is still the second language (kids starting school with minimal grasp of English). Much of the library funding appears to be trying to address this problem :thumbsup:

but when I was a kid down in an ****end town in Essex we had quite a large and up to date childrens books section. I used to use it all the time and used to do Library reading challenges all the time.

I'd love to know exactly how much the council spends on this and where the resources are alocated because it isn't books....

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your-area/libraries

For anybody who's interested :thumbsup:

the online service is better than before. They have a couple of new books that I want but they are in local libraries :confused: :confused:

so have requested and then I'll have to pay 50p every time.

surely this isn't the idea behind a library.

surely each book they own should have at least one copy in the central library?

plus they have my old address still and there isn't a way to change it without queing up in the library.

and I have a fine :confused:

Up to the 1970's Sheffield had one of the top library services in the country. Then for 20-odd years it was starved of money because central Government put a squeeze on local authority spending, and libraries lost out for funding to education, social services and other higher priority services. A lot more money has been put in in recent years, but it takes a long time before things are seen to get better. All those books that weren't bought are out of print, and you can only buy what's available now, so it's a slow process. Unfortunately politicians see computers etc an the priority at the moment, so money that could be spent on books goes instead on internet access etc. A big problem is that when politicians launch these initiatives, they put up £ x million to get them going, but the on-going costs have to be met from other sources, hence less books. You're right Hazel, public libraries grew out of the desire for the workers to become educated, not in the 20's and 30's but in the 19th century. Libraries were the workers' universities, and some of today's socialists would do well to remember that libraries and the socialist movement come from the same roots.:thumbsup:

Thaanks algy for clarifying it..

I thought they were started by the socialist Party and it would be a shame iif they were neglected now especially in Sheffield.

I thought it was iin the 1029's I've got a vague recollection of the name Kier Hardy? but must have been much earlier.

hazel

However there are 3 libraries close to me, Gleadless, Manor and Crystal Peak and all offer an excellent service and range of books.

Chapeltown library is very good too.

Got to say that it's years since i went into the Central Library.
Maybe the funds are now being used to provide quality 'local' library services.

Has Sheffield still got a library? I am shocked. If there's a book that I want - I buy it or go without.

Dragon

Originally posted by robbie
I think it provides a pretty awful service. Most of the books are ancient and the choice is poor. Do others use it often?/what do you think?

For a library in one of the largest cities in the country its not good enough imo. Which library is that ? central ? If so I've always been satisfied in the Local Studies section, although you seem to be annoying the staff when asking for assistants to section not open to the public.

The problem , I think , with libraries is that they've tried to become , "all things to all people ".
The idea of libraries was one of Britain 's great success stories , in the beginning , like the N.H.S People got access to thousands of books at very low cost {the old rates system]or at no cost at all.
I first started using the Central Library in 1953 and it always seemed busy , whenever you went in. There was no computer system in operation but going in and booking out was very smooth. The staff had a very well-organised card system and flicked through them like lightning.
The emphasis was on books and reference material. I don't know whose , "great " idea it was to extend the library's facilities but if you use up space to find room for videos , c.d's .......etc......obviously you're not going to have enough room or money for a good selection of books.
If people can afford televisions , videos , dvd's , music centres ......etc......surely they can afford to buy their own stuff to go with all that. Why should they , "nick " library space and resources ?
Perhaps all the extra money hasn't gone on books at all because it''s been spent on various things that ought to be elsewhere.
It's one more example , in this country , of ------if a thing works well , don't leave it be , change it , mess it about and make it more complicated. Our excellent bus service went the same way and the parks seem to have done too.
Bring back the Real Library !

The Central Library is now looking very run down and uninviting and could definately do with a makeover.

The brand new Ecclesall Library is brilliant and always busy. Perhaps we need more small local libraries like this? Any book can be ordered from the Sheffield colection for free and anything at all, obscure as you like, can be ordered on inter library loan for 50p.

The Council built the library after they had shut down the previous perfectly good libray which was then turned into an unsuccessful pub/restaurant. I think the building of the new one was part of the deal when the site of the old library was sold to developers to build the mother****ing ugly new Swiss Chalet flats.

Anyway it's nice to have our library back :)

Alastair

When I was a kid the library in the nearby town, Mansfield, was rebuilt and to be honest they produced an excellent service. This was 30 years ago, so I don't know what it's like now, but when I realised I was coming to Sheffield to live I was very excited about the prospect of Sheffield City Libraries, as at that time Sheffield Library services had a high reputation.

I was a little disappointed, but over the years have become more disappointed. At one time I recognised about half the library stock on Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry because I'd given those books to the library service... :) Would the books have been bought otherwise? I don't know.

My main concern with the library system is that it's lost it's way. I can borrow a video or DVD from dozens of hire shops across the City. The only place I can borrow books is the library - therefore I would expect them to focus expenditure on books. I honestly don't believe that there is ANY reason for libraries to stock videos and DVDs today. And as has been said, if people can afford the kit to play stuff on, then peraps they could also budget for the stuff to play?

Average spend on books for libraries in the UK is about 9.5% of total budget. Perhaps it's time to up that a little?

Joe

Originally posted by PottShrigley
Any book can be ordered from the Sheffield colection for free and anything at all, obscure as you like, can be ordered on inter library loan for 50p.
Not quite, anything you put in a request for will cost you 50p, even if in your case it's in stock at Ecclesall. If you have to request something from outside Sheffield libraries it's even more (£1.50 rings a bell) or am I out of date? Originally the charge was the cost of posting the card. Then it went up and became a handling charge . Now you can order a book yourself on the computer system and the staff have virtually no involvement, but the charge remains, because over the years it's becoma a source of income for the library that they can't afford to lose.

Originally posted by Strix
Libraries and reading rooms were invented to allow the public access to the primary information source of the day.

In modern times we have a tv in every room and internet access has superceded everything else as the greatest information source.

Given this scenario, the council would be justified in reducing the book stock and dedicating more funds to technology.


I think think that's wishful thinking ;) There is very little public access to works in copyright on the internet except where authors have given specific permission.

Books and journals are still the mainstay of information because it's still the most reliable way of rewarding authors for their effort and dedication. Universities pay huge amounts for students and staff to have on-line access to journals for instance, but staff and students are still expected to buy most of the books required for course-work and research.

I'm sure the day will come when we will be able to buy current publications and download them to read off line on our PC screens, but personally I prefer the comfortable feel of a book !

I wonder whether there's scope for privately funded lending libraries of the sort that existed in the pre-WW2 years?

Many of the old style Gentleman's Clubs also ran libraries for members. I have a few books picked up second hand that belonged to such august organisations as the National Liberal Club.

I occasionally wonder how they escaped from the National Liberal Club and ended up in Oxfam! :)

Joe

According to an article in the paper this weekend, there's a report to the Government from a consultancy coming out on the future of our public libraries. The main suggestions are that the library service should be removed from Council control and run by a new national Agency, and the selecting of books etc should be removed from the library staff and done by a national wholesale supplier on a privatised basis. So the proposal is that yet another local service ceases to be local and comes under central control. If you value your local services and libraries in particular, watch the press and get writing to your MP.

Originally posted by algy
According to an article in the paper this weekend, there's a report to the Government from a consultancy coming out on the future of our public libraries. The main suggestions are that the library service should be removed from Council control and run by a new national Agency, and the selecting of books etc should be removed from the library staff and done by a national wholesale supplier on a privatised basis. So the proposal is that yet another local service ceases to be local and comes under central control. If you value your local services and libraries in particular, watch the press and get writing to your MP.

to be honest Sheffield Central Library is pathetic. I'd be quite happy for it to be taken out of SCC hands. At least the service wont be dependnet on how much spare cash the Council has left after everything else.

I've always found the staff at the central library and the other ones, such as Highfield and Ecclesall, to be absolutely top-notch.

Originally posted by algy
Up to the 1970's Sheffield had one of the top library services in the country. Then for 20-odd years it was starved of money because central Government put a squeeze on local authority spending, and libraries lost out for funding to education, social services and other higher priority services. A lot more money has been put in in recent years, but it takes a long time before things are seen to get better. All those books that weren't bought are out of print, and you can only buy what's available now, so it's a slow process. Unfortunately politicians see computers etc an the priority at the moment, so money that could be spent on books goes instead on internet access etc. A big problem is that when politicians launch these initiatives, they put up £ x million to get them going, but the on-going costs have to be met from other sources, hence less books. You're right Hazel, public libraries grew out of the desire for the workers to become educated, not in the 20's and 30's but in the 19th century. Libraries were the workers' universities, and some of today's socialists would do well to remember that libraries and the socialist movement come from the same roots.:thumbsup:


This post is spot-on, Algy.

"Libraries were the workers' universities" - that's so true. In the days when education was seen as the way to gain a better future for yourself and your children. Remember the Manics' lyrics "Libraries gave us power"?

Unfortunately, what you say about Sheffield City Libraries is also true :( . They've been terribly badly funded in recent years, especially in the 80s, and really did become a bit of an embarrassment for the city. I was quite appalled by the level of provision when I first came to live in Sheffield - to be honest, Sheffield fared VERY poorly compared to Nottinghamshire libraries, for example.

It seems strange that a city with as proud a Socialist tradition as Sheffield should let its library service degenerate to such a degree.

I think they've tried to become all things to all people, and its just not been possible.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by robbie

surely each book they own should have at least one copy in the central library?

That used to be the policy.


plus they have my old address still and there isn't a way to change it without queing up in the library.

I think you can change your address on the 'profile' section of the membership detals screen.


and I have a fine :confused:

If you have reserved a book the 50p charge appears as a fine and worse, - it blocks on-line renewal of books you have on loan. I've brought this up a couple of times but nothing seems to get done about it :mad:

Originally posted by algy
According to an article in the paper this weekend, there's a report to the Government from a consultancy coming out on the future of our public libraries. The main suggestions are that the library service should be removed from Council control and run by a new national Agency, and the selecting of books etc should be removed from the library staff and done by a national wholesale supplier on a privatised basis. So the proposal is that yet another local service ceases to be local and comes under central control. If you value your local services and libraries in particular, watch the press and get writing to your MP.

That is quite scary :o This govt. will sacrifice anything to create private profit from what are supposed to be public services.

Having no local input to book selection is even more disturbing, presumably this function will be given to yet another quango made up of Tony's cronies, and will provide the govt. with the means to effectively censor what people who rely on libraries have access to. :rolleyes:

BTW Algy I believe all the hardware and network installation for public web access in our libraries was paid for through some kind of national funding, although the ongoing maintenance costs has to be met by SCC.

I would just like there to be a reading room at the Central Library - it seems odd that a library wouldn't have one. If it does, it's very well-hidden...

I just want a place I can go to read/write that isn't my house. Do the university libraries allow non-students in for that? Even a book cafe would be good.

At the top of the entrance steps turn left, - there you will find the Reference Library with plenty of seating and desks for reading and writing. There is also another Reference Library on the floor above together with the Local Studies Library again with plenty of accommodation for quiet study.

Footnote re reservation of books. The library have now dropped the charge of 50p for the reservation of local stock.

The easiest method to reserve a book is on-line via the library portal (http://library.sheffield.gov.uk/uhtbin/webcat), but this method requires you to register for on-line access to your library account for which you'll need a PIN. I believe you can still obtain a PIN by telephone from the library you're registered with.

Any loan-stock book in any of SCC libraries can be reserved for delivery to a local library of your choice. You will receive postal notification of availability for collection and this is also shown in your on-lin library account.

Inter-library loan charge is now £3.00 but well worth it for out of print and hard to find non-fiction titles.

Since posting on the subject of our libraries in 05 I have now got a poem in a book of poetry in one of Sheffield libraries also a poem about Woodhouse library is due to be included in a book out next month.

Seems an awful long time ago 2005.

hazel

I absolutely hate the NEW Firth Park Library.

I was in there last Monday afternoon and it could only be described as outright bedlam .

There were 2 small toddlers tearing about the place , screeching and screaming at the top of their lungs whilst their mums were in the childrens area gossiping to some teenage girls .

There was a group of 6 young Asian boys from the college up the road who had monopolised the seating area for what looked like a sort of gang meeting.....complete with the obligatory colourful language being shouted across the room .....and not one book , magazine or newspaper between them .

There was even some sort of altercation about someones rent in the section where Sheffield Area Housing have set up home these days .

To top it off there were just 2 library staff manning the counter and one of those was desperately trying to make yet another foreign gent understand that he needed to book a slot to use the computers in advance ...... I had to admire her patience!!!

It made me yearn for the peace and quiet of the OLD Firth Park Library .
They do seem to have tried to cram so many different sections in such a small building .

last time i went to library was when i wanted to find someone many years ago.

Technology has come along way since libraries.

At the top of the entrance steps turn left, - there you will find the Reference Library with plenty of seating and desks for reading and writing. There is also another Reference Library on the floor above together with the Local Studies Library again with plenty of accommodation for quiet study.

Thanks Greybeard!

to be honest Sheffield Central Library is pathetic. I'd be quite happy for it to be taken out of SCC hands. At least the service wont be dependnet on how much spare cash the Council has left after everything else.

Libraries are discretionary services. i.e., councils don't have to do it, so they will always fall down the list of priorities for councils. If (more likey when) Cameron gets in in May, libraies will come under the cosh of George Osbourne's spending cuts. As will other soft options, like, parks, museums. You know, those things that make life nicer, but which the Tory toffs have no need for.

Libraries are discretionary services. i.e., councils don't have to do it, so they will always fall down the list of priorities for councils. If (more likey when) Cameron gets in in May, libraies will come under the cosh of George Osbourne's spending cuts. As will other soft options, like, parks, museums. You know, those things that make life nicer, but which the Tory toffs have no need for.


Yes, I remember the state of the city's parks in the '80's and the criminal neglect of the Botanical Gardens as the council was unable to find the funds to maintain them as the Tories cut the rate support grant to Sheffield.

I would just like there to be a reading room at the Central Library - it seems odd that a library wouldn't have one. If it does, it's very well-hidden...

I just want a place I can go to read/write that isn't my house. Do the university libraries allow non-students in for that? Even a book cafe would be good.

I would just like there to be a reading room at the Central Library - it seems odd that a library wouldn't have one. If it does, it's very well-hidden...

I just want a place I can go to read/write that isn't my house. Do the university libraries allow non-students in for that? Even a book cafe would be good.

You can go to both Adsetts Centre and Collegiate libraries of Hallam uni during the staffed hours, which is until 9 pm most of the term in the week.

Uni of Sheffield libraries are only open to students and staff, however. I actually prefer the Hallam ones, they are quieter!

I find the Adsetts centre an excellent place to work, the only niggle is only staff and students can use the PC's and Wi-fi.

Personally I cant see anything wrong with the central library. It has a wonderful old atmosphere to it inside. So it hasnt got every book by every author but neither have the bookshops.

As a regular library user there always seems to be new books available when I go there. Where else in Sheffield is there such a full diverse selection of music and dvs to rent (i.e world cinema dvds by the hundreds!), foreign language books, masses of fiction and non-fiction books?

Sh2006.

The Libraries are great for picking up a supply of easy reading when money and/or shelf space is tight, and for ordering specific titles. The librarians are unfailingly friendly and helpful and, especially in Highfield, doing outstanding work with children. The libraries are used by huge numbers of people every day to great benefit, and my life would be poorer without this ready access to free books.

I use to live in Lanarkshire, Scotland in the 1960s and even towns like Motherwell and Hamilton were far superior and are still superior to Sheffield. With intelligent lay outs and it was quite easy to get permission to go through the local newspaper archives, unlike Sheffield.