I beleieve that by the time I retire there will be no state pension.

But what will happen to people who have no private pension ?

Do you think the government should be forcing people to get a private pension ?

Why should we be forced to have an extra private pension when we are paying into our state pension through our National Insurance contributions?

If there was a short fall, maybe Gordon Brown should have put all the money from selling our gold reserves into the State pension coffers. But no he used it to prop up the economy so the Labour party looked good and could spout their propaganda on there stewardship of the economy. Funny how now that gold money has dried up and we are left with out a financial safety net the economy is starting to have a down turn!

If they cut off the pension I’m sure there will be a few militant OAP's out there!

thet will dry up in the next 20 years at this rate. Unfortunately in 10 years time half the population with be of retirement age. We do not have a high enough birth rate to support them.

So without a war, famine or some sort of OAP epidemic we are stuck.

I think the government should force every company to introduce a non contributary pension scheme and they should encourage everyone to get a private one and to contribute to it.

Originally posted by serapis
Why should we be forced to have an extra private pension when we are paying into our state pension through our National Insurance contributions?


But we're not, we are paying the pensions of people who are retired now, we have to rely on people in the future paying ours, and if they decide not to pay it were stuffed.

Originally posted by nick2
But we're not, we are paying the pensions of people who are retired now, we have to rely on people in the future paying ours, and if they decide not to pay it were stuffed.

But you cant just decide not to pay it? or am I being diddled somewhere?

I understand that the number of people working, supporting all our OAP's is dwindling, but Per Capita earnings is also going up. There are a lot more people earning a lot more money these days, and as NI is a percentage of your earnings the Department of Work and Pensions must be racking it in!

It's not a matter of people in the future deciding not to pay up for our pensions - the falling birth rate and increasing numbers of people living longer beyond retirement age is something the Government have been aware about for many years.

However, the situation is getting more acute - one of the reasons the Government is trying to make things easier for parents by providing additional child care and extended school hours.

I remember a few years ago hearing that anyone born after a particular date would no longer qualify for a state pension. Can't remember what date it was - I think it was in the 1950's I know both me and hubby were born after the date and so cannot rely on a state pension.

The Government have been trying to encourage everyone to have some sort of private pension - but with all the problems with shares etc, that isn't really a safe be either is it?

Anyone who does not have a pension, will qualify for a 'means tested' pension (or income support) so will be forced to live (sorry, exist) on a meagre amount of money.

I'll do some research and try to find out more info for you...

Originally posted by serapis
But you cant just decide not to pay it? or am I being diddled somewhere?

I understand that the number of people working, supporting all our OAP's is dwindling, but Per Capita earnings is also going up. There are a lot more people earning a lot more money these days, and as NI is a percentage of your earnings the Department of Work and Pensions must be racking it in!

Nope you are not being diddled - currently we all pay into it.

But there are various problems for those of us hoping to claim in the next forty years. Our money pays for OAP's now. We aren't covering the cost because there's lcurrently ots of OAP's as people live longer and longer..

We need a large population working and a strong ecomony for when we are OAP's to pay our pensions.

So we'll probably be allowed to work until we drop dead because it's not going to be an easy one for any political party to resolve.

Sorry forgot to actually answer Nick2's question..............

I think other options need to be looked into. Private pensions maybe an option as they already exist but not personally been convinced they are a good deal.

Company pension plans are a good option for many but as people move jobs more these days it's not always easy to build up a pot of dosh. And you have to be lucky enough to work for a company who cares enough to set a good one up

Can't think of other options cos' I am dense at all things financial which is a worry in its self.

So suggestions please...

Originally posted by samc
So we'll probably be allowed to work until we drop dead because it's not going to be an easy one for any political party to resolve.

You make some interesting comments, but I suspect we will be forced to work until we drop, rather than be given the choice.

Originally posted by Abdul
You make some interesting comments, but I suspect we will be forced to work until we drop, rather than be given the choice.


Have a sad feeling you are correct.

I am going to have to keep putting all those pennies in the big jar and annoy the hell out of bank tellers when I take in my lfe savings.

This is a difficult one no one in Government seem's to want to grasp. And indeed why should they bother, having voted themselves the most enormous increases and generous pension arrangements in recent years. This on the back of Prudence Brown raiding the coffers of private pension provision to the tune of billions of pounds a year. And if you want proof come and look at the value of our private pension plans which after 10 years of contibutions were worth the same or marginally less than we had contributed. How any Government minister can extol the virtue of contributing to a private pension fund in the light of recent years events is completely beyond me.

I think that there will always be some form of state provision but it will become a means tested benefit and as such give only a relatively low standard of living.

The retirement age will increase, perhaps not by government imposition but by offering people increased pension benefits if they delay taking them up.

When I was in a branch of the civil service in the 80's it was generally thought that the retirement age of 60 was OK, but, could, in our branch possibly have been made optional from 55 (Royal Fleet Auixiliary, long periods away and fairly physical work even for Officers). Now 20 years on there is open discussion about increasing retirement age to 65. (Thank goodness I left!)

I do think some form of compulsory saving will have to be introduced it will probably be yet another form of taxation, say, increased National Insurance contributions. There could be a huge section of society with an inadequate provision for their old age. As to when it will happen I have no idea but I don't think it is too far away.

Originally posted by pete_jim
I do think some form of compulsory saving will have to be introduced it will probably be yet another form of taxation, say, increased National Insurance contributions. There could be a huge section of society with an inadequate provision for their old age.

Well, the government are already encouraging people to take out stakeholder pensions if they don't have one already, and have started the Child Trust fund for young 'uns, so it's probably already underway.

Originally posted by Abdul
You make some interesting comments, but I suspect we will be forced to work until we drop, rather than be given the choice.

Well your local MP is now the minister for pensions; given that he's a man of radical ideas and solutions, euthenasia might be offered as an alternative to working 'til you drop dead :thumbsup:

Having now got my pension I'm keeping my legs crossed that I snuff it before the money runs out ! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by pete_jim


When I was in a branch of the civil service in the 80's it was generally thought that the retirement age of 60 was OK, but, could, in our branch possibly have been made optional from 55 (Royal Fleet Auixiliary, long periods away and fairly physical work even for Officers). Now 20 years on there is open discussion about increasing retirement age to 65. (Thank goodness I left!)



There seem to be all sorts of anomolies in public services pension provision. I think the armed forces are allowed to draw their service pension after 22 years, which for someone joining at 18 would be 42; and aren't police officers and firemen allowed to draw their pension after a fixed number of service years ?

Civil service, NHS and LA employees are all allowed to retire at 60, and from BT I had to retire at 60.

Originally posted by Abdul
Well, the government are already encouraging people to take out stakeholder pensions if they don't have one already, and have started the Child Trust fund for young 'uns, so it's probably already underway.

Yes this has happened but the 'encouragement' by the Government has fallen far short of that needed to make the schemes viable. IMO the Child Trust Fund will be a huge Government White Elephant.

We will all work till we're either 65 (public sector workers) or 70 (private sector). The state pension for the young'uns on here will not commence, in all probability, until your 70th birthday. Your best bet would be either to latch on to some kind of easily faked disability and claim the allowance, or drink yourself to death, and let the state pick up your funeral expenses. Hussah!

I may be quite alone in my thinking - but, I believe the current situation of everyone getting the state pension whether or not they need it, needs some modifications.

There are some retired people who clearly do not need a state hand-out, they are wealthy in their own right. I think there should be an 'upper limit' on earnings so that those who do not anywhere need the state pension should not get it. The same pot of money could then be used to increase the pension for those that do need it.

I'm not talking about the 'average' pensioner here - but the minority of extremely wealthy people. Some of them may not claim their state pension, but from what I know of very wealthy people they didn't get that way by refusing anything!

Both my parents are retired and have a good standard of living - better than when they were working. They have worked for it and paid into company schemes so they deserve it. The mortgage is paid off and to be honest, their outgoings are low. I really feel for those old people who have to rely soley on a state pension because I don't think it is sufficient.

Maybe that's partly why some people move to countries with a lower cost of living and get their pension paid to them over there - where it goes a lot further. That's what I plan on doing - God willing.

Originally posted by pete_jim
Yes this has happened but the 'encouragement' by the Government has fallen far short of that needed to make the schemes viable. IMO the Child Trust Fund will be a huge Government White Elephant.

It will do little to counter the main message coming from government that 'debt is OK'. Young people, with no experience or education in planning their finances are being 'sold' a university education at a cost of tens of thousands of pounds on the premise that 'its OK to be hugely in debt when you are young, b/c you will make it all back one day'.

Its just the tip of the iceberg really, but it encourages a very shortsighted view of financial planning - by the time our current group of students have left found jobs, paid off their huge student loan and credit card debts and saved a deposit to buy a house, they will (in all liklihood) need to start saving to put their own kids through university - pushing both parent and child further into debt!. (the Child Trust Fund probably won't even cover the train fare!)

When do they stop and consider their own retirement?

My parents planned or their retirement from their twenties and managed to retire at 55 . Theres no way I'll be that lucky, but I might be able to afford to stop working at 65. The next generation? They'll never be able to stop running the treadmill.

Originally posted by samc
Sorry forgot to actually answer Nick2's question..............

I think other options need to be looked into. Private pensions maybe an option as they already exist but not personally been convinced they are a good deal.

Company pension plans are a good option for many but as people move jobs more these days it's not always easy to build up a pot of dosh. And you have to be lucky enough to work for a company who cares enough to set a good one up

Can't think of other options cos' I am dense at all things financial which is a worry in its self.

So suggestions please...

Equity release is going to be one option - i.e. if you've bought your house, you effectively sell it (or a stake in it) to a bank or insurance company which pays you an annuity in return. This is still fairly experimental though - the terms don't seem very attractive as yet, but I guess that'll change if it gets to be more popular.

There was a thing on the radio this morning about how most people intend to use what they've accumulated for themselves, and not bust a gut to hand anything on to their children - this would be one example.

Apart from that, it's inevitable that many people will be working longer, though hopefully not "till you drop"! People are living longer now, so should still be able to have a reasonably long and enjoyable retirement even if it doesn't start till you're 70.

With my luck state pensions will run out in 22 years time - just when I'm ready to draw one. :D

Actually, I don't expect the state to fund anything for me. I will have myself sorted by then.

Joe

Originally posted by CaptainSwing
There was a thing on the radio this morning about how most people intend to use what they've accumulated for themselves, and not bust a gut to hand anything on to their children - this would be one example.

I might do something similar - play the guilt card and have my offspring care for me ;)