Former PM Sir Edward Heath dies

Sir Edward Heath was an MP for over 50 years
Former Conservative Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath has died at the age of 89.
His spokesman had said earlier on Sunday Sir Edward was gravely ill and receiving medical attention at home.

Sir Edward, who was knighted in 1992, won his first seat for the Tories in Bexley in 1950 and led the 1970-74 Conservative Government.

He took Britain into the European Economic Community and sent troops to Northern Ireland. In 1975 he lost the leadership to Margaret Thatcher.

Blighted by unrest

Earlier the spokesman said: "Sir Edward Heath, who celebrated his 89th birthday with a party at his home in Salisbury a week ago, has recently become considerably weaker.

"He is now nearing the end of his life.

"Sir Edward is resting quietly at home where he is receiving all appropriate medical care and is supported by visits from friends."

Sir Edward's term in office was blighted by industrial action and problems with the economy.

With the country on a three-day week and rubbish piling up in the streets, the miners threatened to bring his government down.

Industrial unrest, combined with economic difficulties, led to the Tories being pushed from power in February 1974.

Sir Edward never forgave Mrs Thatcher for ousting him as leader and refused to serve in her cabinet.

After more than 50 years as an MP he retired from politics in 2001.

im keeping stumm cos ill only get called sick and disgusting again

>im keeping stumm cos ill only get called sick and disgusting again<

Not a great PM, but fundamentally a decent man who tried to run this county at possibly the worst time during the last century. what is your problem with this man dying of old age after a life of public service?

Thats a long time of serving the public. Well done Eddie.

We used to be moored next to him on the River Hamble for a bit.

Nice Guy. I think one of his most lasting legacies will be good Sino-British relations.

Not a bad man.

R.I.P.

Originally posted by GHS1961
what is your problem with this man dying of old age after a life of public service? im not saying a word

I have always liked Sir Edward Heath. He represented all that was good about Conservatives (they are hardly two-headed monsters, after all). More than his politics, it is his 'englishness' I admire; his love of sailing, our institutions and landscape. Devoted to music both as a discerning listener and fine musician, he was a 'personality politician' in the best possible sense. Most importantly, he had the vision to reconnect us with western europe; if only Mr Blair shared his convictions, rather than Margaret Thatcher's, we may have avoided the current mess we find ourselves in regarding our unbalanced relationship with the United States.

Originally posted by LordSnooty
if only Mr Blair shared his convictions, rather than Margaret Thatcher's, we may have avoided the current mess we find ourselves in regarding our unbalanced relationship with the United States.

I enjoyed Wedgie Benn's quick quip that "Ted Heath was a good way to the left of Mr. Blair" :D

Nice man Ted Heath, pity he couldn't have found some compromise with the unions, - he could have saved us from Maggie Thatcher.

A confirmed batchelor, Edward Heath devoted his life to public service as the MP for Bexley (latterly Bexley and Old Sidcup),
becoming not only leader of the Conservative Party for 10 years, but rising to the highest elected office of Prime Minister, and given his longevity in Parliament, he eventually became the 'Father of the House'. Prior to entering Parliament, he had a distinguished service in the Army, and was awarded the MBE.

His premiership was marked by industrial strife, culminating in the disasterous 3-day week. When he went to the polls on the basis of who governs the country, he lost his majority. He didn't resign immediately, but tried to cling to office by forming an alliance with Jeremy Thorpe, the then leader of the Liberal Party.

Edward Heath had the vision to take the UK into the Europen Community, and was a firm believer in European integration.

He loved sailing (despite his first boat, Morning Glory, sinking!), and also music, and conducted a number of orchestras.

He was the first elected leader of the Conservative Party, but after his general election defeat, was challenged for the leadership of the Party, losing to Margaret Thatcher. He refused to serve in her cabinet when the Conservatives were returned to office.

So 'Grocer' Heath, as the late, great Auberon Waugh referred to him, has died. To paraphrase the words of a popular song of the sixties; 'Grocer Heath, Grocer Heath, is it true what mummy says- you won't come back?' At any rate, one rather hopes not. Heath may have been endearingly 'English' to some, but as one who lived through the man's brief but unutterably disastrous period in office, I feel that the man's appalling political incompetance far outweighs any skills he may have possessed on the high seas or in the concert hall.

'Grocer', let us not forget was the exact opposite of the 'great man' who 'never wavered', as described by our oily, unctious Lord Protector Tony Blair this morning. As Prime Minister he was weak, equivocal and frankly bewildered towards the end of the debacle that was his period in office. 'Grocer' had the sheer stupidity and arrogance to dismiss Enoch Powell [whose words have proved so resonant today, and with whom huge sections of the country were then in total agreement; one had to be there to appreciate the scale of fear and resentment over mass immigration]; to negotiate Britain's entry into the European Economic Community, which has proved to be a tragic mistake of huge proportions; and he cravenly caved in under pressure from militant unions, in a period that saw a 'three day' working week, and mass power-cuts.

After his shameful election defeat of 1974, one would have thought that sackcloth and ashes, or at least a monastic life beckoned. Far from it. This strange man who seemed never at ease with women, devoted himself to petulantly whinging and whining about Maggie Thatcher at every opportunity. 'Grocer' was the kind of Tory that those of left/liberal persuasion actually warm to. There is evidence for this claim on this very thread. In other words, 'Grocer' was not really a Tory at all. He was a collectivist, an interventionist, and he believed in the kind of international idealism that got us into the 'common market'. 'Grocer' was not even a One Nation 'wet' [i.e, Heseltine]. Rather, he was a true European-style social democrat, just as much at home with the ideas of Etzioni and Giddens as is Blair.

Like Timo, I can’t concur with the eulogies to Heath on this forum and elsewhere. If truth be told, he was an awful Prime Minister and a pretty awful man.

If we take his supposed greatest achievement, i.e. taking the UK into the EEC in 1973, well, he badly bungled this as he did so much else. He was so keen to take us in that he did so on terms which were very largely unfavourable to us – meaning that even though the UK was one of the poorest members at the time, we were paying enormous sums into the EEC budget and getting relatively little in return. Many people think that the 1975 referendum was about whether to stay in or to leave the EEC. It was really about renegotiating the awful terms Heath had agreed to in 1972. (probably because he wanted to go down in history as the person who took us into the EEC). The result of Heath’s bungling was that the UK’s relations with our European partners were to be poisoned for many years and were dominated by the ‘BBQ’ (i.e. the British budget question). It must have been particularly galling to Heath that the person who did the most to rectify this intolerable situation was Margaret Thatcher, who negotiated the substantial annual rebate for the UK in 1984. Far from ‘reconciling us to Europe’, Heath actually did the very opposite..

If we take his management of the economy and of industrial relations during his premiership, it was a catalogue of bad decisions and bungling, resulting in not a single positive outcome as far as I am aware (if judged on economic or industrial indicators, such as inflation or employment levels, growth or industrial relations). His attempt to tackle industrial relations for example led to the worst industrial relations we have ever had, culminating in the three day week, regular power cuts, enormous inconvenience for ordinary people due to loss of heating, light and public transport, massive loss of output and worsening balance of payments. He had no understanding of how modern economies work. Indeed, his grasp of Economics seem to consist of half-understood pseudo Keynesian nostrums that were already seriously out of date at the time and totally inappropriate to the conditions with which he was dealing. Indeed, prior to becoming PM, he did toy with other ideas (i.e. the Selsdon formulae), but in a very half-hearted way, either because he didn’t believe in them or (more probably) because he didn’t understand them. He also soon abandoned any pretence of implementing these formulae when in office. Mrs. Thatcher’s famous phrase ‘no U turns’ derives from her determination not to repeat the mistakes of Heath in this regard.

I could add other examples of his incompetence and unfitness for office, but this post is already overlong. Instead I will just say that in my opinion he was a classic example of the Peter principle – i.e. someone promoted way beyond the level of their own competence. He had neither the judgement, the sagacity nor the political and personal skills required to make even a half decent Prime Minister. Mercifully, the British electorate had the wisdom to boot him out of office after one catastrophic term (and the Conservative party followed suit soon afterwards).

As for Heath the man, well, there are too many recorded instances of his boorish, self-obsessed, petulant, mysogenistic and spiteful behaviour (and not only towards Thatcher) for me to take the treacly eulogies of him at face value. We can’t say ‘nothing became in his (political) life like the leaving on it’. Indeed, he never reconciled himself to the fact that he was ousted by a mere woman who turned out to be a much for effective and capable Conservative Prime Minister than he ever was, and moreover a political leader with a much firmer place in history than he ever achieved. Thatcher was magnanimous towards him yesterday. I think it’s the measure of the man that had she died first, the response from him would probably have been very different – i.e. either stony silence or an outpouring of self-justification, laden with verbal nastiness of one kind or another

Lord C,
One day, dear heart, the good people of the forum will 'rumble' the fact that you and I are actually the same person!

Whatever the eulogies say, 'Grocer' Heath was a deeply unpopular, much resented , reviled and ridiculed figure in the Tory Party. He was widely regarded as a pompous bore, and political disaster. I know this from being a member since 1981, and having atended many conferences. The mere mention of 'Grocer's' name elicited groans, embittered sighs, mocking laughter and sometimes the strongest verbal abuse imaginable. I remember one colleague, and then [unfortunate] Tory candidate for an area of blackest Barnsley, resorting to a blizzard of obscenity when quizzed about Heath's merits as former Prime Minister. The eulogies, particularly those from politicians, are largely insincere. 'Grocer' was not particularly popular with anybody, at least not on the right. As my late father would say, 'Isn't it strange that they are all 'good 'uns' when they are dead?!' Indeed...

As the wise and erudite Lord Chaverly says, 'Grocer' was mysogenistic. How can one warm to and trust a man who so obviously dislikes and avoids women? There is little or no place for such a man in the modern world, and especially not in the arena of political life.

Good postings from Timo and Lord Chaverly. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on which way you look at it, I was too young at the time of Edward Heath's stint as Prime Minister of our country to be able to offer any serious opinions on the man's 'performance'.

However, last year I read a biography on Margaret Thatcher and from 1975 onwards it appears that Edward Heath was acting like some sulking baby who had spat his dummy out. By the time of Thatcher's election success in 1979 the man was seething and he never regained his composure. I can imagine him stomping his foot and having a right old paddy akin to my 2 and a half year old daughter when I've brought her orange juice instead of blackcurrant.

Timo states his (Eddie's) unease in the company of women. This comes through the pages of Mrs Thatcher's bio on many instances. From what I've read I appreciate he was PM during an awful period for this country and so, in rememberance of the man, and to show no hard feelings I reckon we should all light a candle tonight in memory of him.

Be just like the power cuts again (which I certainly DO remember!!!).

Ousetunes,
Thankyou for your kind words there. I laughed at your witty suggestion that we should all light a candle for 'Grocer', in remembrance of the power -cuts. I wish I had said that! In fact, I like the quip so much that I shall use it later on tonight in the pub, pretending that I came up with it! Full marks, old bean!

Originally posted by timo and Chav
mysogenistic

No doubt you two pompous twits think he was crap at spelling, as well.

Lord Snooty,
It is crass to draw attention to inevitable spelling mistakes in postings. I have seen plenty in your offerings, but have not felt compelled to point them out. I cannot speak for my pal Lord Chaverly, but my spelling has certainly not held me back in the field of academic publishing.

Re calling Lord C and I names, I recall the last time you posted something offensive [and in that case, potentially libellous] against me on the forum, you later sent a very contrite personal message to me. If I remember correctly, you berated yourself for being ' a fool'. I shall not reveal the rest for fear of embarrassing you. Think about this Snooty; there is a limit for how many excuses one can make for an adult who chooses to behave childishly. What excuse will it be this time- job stress? Perhaps you felt 'left out' of the debate? You need to grow up, sir. Then again, you are perfectly aware of that.

Be an adult, Snooty, and take this on the chin. Prove that you don't have to 'save face' on the forum, or have 'the last word' in every case...

Although I believe he was wrong in many of his policies there is no doubt that they were based on the best of intentions and that he acted sincerely in doing what he believed best for the country.

Like other politicians of his generation he was greatly influenced by the 1930s and the second world war. This should be born in mind when looking at his actions in office.

Slim,
I am not entirely sure that Heath's decisions were always made with the best interests of the country in mind. I always thought that he allowed emotion [perhaps, as you imply, as a result of his wartime experiences] to cloud his powers of intellectual reasoning on the issue of Europe and the Common Market. I think our joining of the community became something of a personal obsession with him. Regarding Enoch Powell and Maggie Thatcher, Heath proved himself again to be the sort who allows emotion to get in the way of intellect, with his vindictive behaviour and spiteful, childish attitude.

For all talk of how 'Grocer' cut a very 'English' figure, I personally saw little that was typically English in his behaviour. With his pompous, aloof manner, tendency towards spiteful vindictiveness and self-righteous absolutism he resembled more closely a stereotypical French statesmen. Definately the 'continental' type, our 'Grocer'.

It was said [by whom I cannot recall] that there were two things Ted Heath detested. One was being told that he was wrong, and the other was women. How the boorish old tench must have loathed Maggie Thatcher! I can imagine that today the ineffable Baroness is remembering her old adversary with great affection, and not without hearty laughter...

As a useful corrective to the misty eyed memorials to Heath in today's obituary columns, I suggest people dig out the 1970s Grocer cartoon series about Heath in Private Eye. He was portrayed as a self-obsessed, utterly obnoxious, boorish, petulant, oafish and utterly incompetent buffoon. This series captured perfectly a not uncommon view of Heath at the time.

In addition to his dislike (fear?) of women and of being contradicted, he also appeared to have an aversion for people obviously much brighter than himself. Whereas Mrs. Thatcher had a coherent ideological vision (deriving from Joseph, Powell, Hayek and other gurus of the so-called new Right), Heath seemed to have lacked intellectual curiosity and receptivity to new ideas.

An amusing irony is that at the time he was ousted, many people in the Tory party did not have high expectations of Thatcher. Moreover, many media pundits. had no idea of her mettle either. She was in fact described by someone at the time (can't remember who) as simply another 'Heath with tits on'. How wrong they all were!

I have to aggree witha lot of that but i think it too simplistic to say that Heath was weak and Thatcher was strong. I think they were both capable of being very stuborn and determined to do what they thought was right for the country.

I am not sure if Heath's 'Selsdon man' period was the real Heath or if that was more the corporatism that came both before and after. I suspect that unlike Mrs Thatcher he was never a right wing monetorist at heart but rather saw monetorism as the means to an end in the 1970 - 72 period. This is perhaps why he so readily abandoned it (and she never did).

As I said before he was very much a post war consensus type of politician who's views were much influenced by the depression of the 1930's and then his war time service. He also bravely spoke out against appeasment in the 1930's when it was very much the official Tory orthadoxy. He met all the top Nazis (Hitler, Himmler, Georbels) and saw clearer than many others the threat they were. All the more sad that he ended his political career as an apologist for Saddam Hussain.

A "fear" of women? Heath was as bent as a nine bob note, it's not that difficult to work out is it?

Originally posted by Greenback
A "fear" of women? Heath was as bent as a nine bob note, it's not that difficult to work out is it?

Well he did try to get into bed with Jeremy Thorpe in March 1974. Politically speaking of course.:hihi:

Slim,

Isn't it a little ironic though that his style of 'consensus politics' led to the worst industrial unrest the UK had experienced in the post-war era and to the nadir of the three day week and to regular power blackouts. For a 'consensus politician' he was remarkably lacking in any ability to achieve consensus. I agree he was no monetarist. But he was no Keynesian either. Quite simply, I think he lacked the intellectual ability or curiosity to understand either school of thought, particularly the need to adapt ideas to suit prevailing circumstances. I don't think that his commendable war record, and his opposition to Fascism, redeems or excuses his abysmal performance as Prime Minister.

Lord C's good point about 'Grocer' being neither a neo-liberal nor a Keynsian, and lacking the intellect to grasp the tenets of either school rather reinforces my previous point. 'Grocer' was a european-style, social democrat and might have fitted in well with Blair's 'Third Way' project. Similarly, most New Labour politicians and voters do not seem to fully understand the intellectual roots of their party's social democracy. How many, aside from Blair and Campbell, have ever read Giddens or Etzioni? To reiterate, what unites Heath and Blair is their belief in international idealism, interventionism and collectivism.

To Greenback,
My reference to Heath's unease with, dislike of and avoidance of women does not translate as a cheap, homophobic slur on his character. Homosexuality might have made 'Grocer' a tad more interesting. Whether or not he was, to coin your elegant phrase, 'as bent as a nine bob note', or even homosexual, is open to speculation. I personally have never associated male homosexuality with misogyny. My point is that one cannot warm to, or trust such a man. There is something deeply unpleasant and unhealthy about misogyny. Whereas, I have never viewed homosexuality in such negative terms. Matthew Parris, for example, is one of my favourite Tories and journalists- he is openly gay.

I don't equate misogyny with homosexuality either, I was just pointing out that maybe Heath's perceived "fear" of women could be down to the fact that he never really took the time to get to know many of them. And as we well know, it is a lifetime's work to even begin to understand the inner workings of the female brain.

Originally posted by timo

As Prime Minister he was weak, equivocal and frankly bewildered towards the end of the debacle that was his period in office. 'Grocer' had the sheer stupidity and arrogance to dismiss Enoch Powell [whose words have proved so resonant today, and with whom huge sections of the country were then in total agreement; one had to be there to appreciate the scale of fear and resentment over mass immigration

Enoch Powell's infamous 'rivers of blood' speech was blatently racist, and his dismissal from the shadow cabinet by Edward Heath was one of the few things that Heath ever did that I supported.

Footnote: Part of Powell's racist speech are quoted as the signature of royjames in his posts. Says it all.

Good Lord! 'Greenback makes un-pc comment about womens' brains shock horror probe!' I can see the headlines now, old fruit. Yes, you may be right Greeny, Heath seemed to live very much in his own world. He was maybe one of life's loners. That is all well and good if one intends to work behind the scenes in some public library. It is not the kind of quality that charismatic and effective leaders are made of though. Heath's problem was not just a refusal to listen to women, it was, as Lord C cogently suggests, his unreceptive mind in relation to ideas in general. His legacy is one of failure, and he will be remembered not as a baton-wielding old buffer, or some lovable, salty old seadog, but as the Prime Minister who was 'done over' by the miners. Perhaps the reverse will be Maggie Thatcher's fate!

Heath was a third-rater at best. John Major, on the other hand, singlehandedly transformed our lives for the better with his sublime, revolutionary 'Traffic Cones Hotline'.

Red ,
I do not agree that Powell's speech was racist. He had a duty to represent the genuine concerns of his constituents. Even though a small boy in 1968, I recall vividly the fear that gripped the majority population in relation to unregulated mass immigration. The fear is simple, maybe even 'primitive', but it was there in 68, and it is here with us in 2005. Translated, it equates to this; mass immigration will lead to We The People becoming We Another People. The majority resent and fear such implications, as they did back in 68.

As for the fact that Roy James has a quote from Powell's speech as a signature, that is his business. I am a Tory, not a member of the BNP. However, Roy's endorsement of Powell's sentiments does not 'say it all', or make those sentiments 'wrong'. Roy, if we were to believe some posters on the forum, is practically singlehandedly responsible for the atrocities of WW2. That aside, many many people agreed and agree with Powellite views. What would you call Blunkett's comments re the failure of multiculturalism and the failure of certain ethnic groups to integrate properly? I would argue that they are close to what Powell said all those years ago.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Enoch Powell's infamous 'rivers of blood' speech was blatently racist, and his dismissal from the shadow cabinet by Edward Heath was one of the few things that Heath ever did that I supported.

Footnote: Part of Powell's racist speech are quoted as the signature of royjames in his posts. Says it all.

What Powell did in his speeches and writings on immigration was to challenge the prevailing conventional wisdoms and orthodoxies of the time concerning the nature and implications of mass migration. In particular, he challenged the assimilationist doctrines which had as their central premise the idea that the new migrants would soon become assimilated into the British way of life and in effect would become 'Black British'. Powell had seved as a military officer in the Indian sub continent and knew Urdu. He knew a lot more about the resilience of these indigenous cultures (particularly of Islamic cultures) than did many at the time. He actually said that it would not matter to him if the new immigrants were fully assimilated, including through inter-marriage with the indigenous population. But he knew this would not happen. Instead, he predicted that large swathes of British cities would become populated by groups with little or no interest in assimilating into the British way of life. It was indeed as he said at the time all about numbers. The larger the numbers, the less likely integration was likely to occur. His numerical predications concerning the rapid growth of the migrant population were ridiculed at the time but have subsequently proven to be if anything under-estimates. Moreover, Heath reneged on his promise to the electorate to tackle immigration (another similarity he has with Blair). As for Powell being a fascist, his war record proves otherwise: he joined the British army voluntarily at the outbreak of the War and served with distinction throughout its duration.

Interesting points raised by timo and LordChaverly. I decline to enter into a debate though, as this thread is about the late Edward Heath, and not old Enoch Powell.

Red

Originally posted by timo
Lord Snooty,
It is crass to draw attention to inevitable spelling mistakes in postings. I have seen plenty in your offerings, but have not felt compelled to point them out. I cannot speak for my pal Lord Chaverly, but my spelling has certainly not held me back in the field of academic publishing.

Re calling Lord C and I names, I recall the last time you posted something offensive [and in that case, potentially libellous] against me on the forum, you later sent a very contrite personal message to me. If I remember correctly, you berated yourself for being ' a fool'. I shall not reveal the rest for fear of embarrassing you. Think about this Snooty; there is a limit for how many excuses one can make for an adult who chooses to behave childishly. What excuse will it be this time- job stress? Perhaps you felt 'left out' of the debate? You need to grow up, sir. Then again, you are perfectly aware of that.

Be an adult, Snooty, and take this on the chin. Prove that you don't have to 'save face' on the forum, or have 'the last word' in every case...

Are you sure you didn't write this as a demonstration piece for the, 'how low can you go' thread? At least Chav quoted back at me something I had written openly on the forum (he willfully misinterpreted what I had written, but that's his problem). What on earth are you thinking of quoting my personal correspondence on a public forum? How 'adult' is that? And, no, you do not 'remember correctly' and have misrepresented what I wrote to you (in good faith, I might add).

We both know what is behind this; since Lord Chav and I fell out (not that we were ever 'in'), you have gradually shifted from being 'a pal', to indifference, to mild sneering. I imagine you decided to close ranks with Lord C because he has the 'right breeding' or something.....

And as for squawking about 'potential libel', don't be so bloody ridiculous, man! You can pontificate and splutter all you like; it's obvious you would deport half the population if you ever became Prime Minister, perish the thought.

Snooty,
The moderators will quite rightly close this thread if you and I continue to bicker like this. Nobody else is remotely interested in our spats, and I guarantee that 'Timo and Lord Chaverly close ranks against Lord Snooty: the evil alliance', or even 'Snooty hits back with 'Fascist Timo' slur' are most unlikely headlines in tomorrow's papers.

Why don't we adopt the strategy of my late Grandfather at times like this; 'The least said, soonest mends', and carry on posting on the topic. You liked Heath, and Lord C and I most certainly did not. We don't need to start a Cyber War over it...