We've recently taken on Harley, a 14 month old black lab (some of you will remember him being posted on here). Anyway, he's got a few issues with strangers, he seems to be terrified of them and he shows this as aggression. Its mainly growling and barking but he has occasionally snapped at people. He used to do this in our home but has improved after being socialised with loads of our friends but still continues to do this while out on walks. I don't know whether I should muzzle him as I think only being socialised will stop this behaviour yet I know from experience that people are more wary of approaching a muzzled dog (god only knows why as its much safer than an unmuzzled animal) however I'm worried that one time he'll snap at someone and possibly bite, even though I'm sure he wouldn't intentionally do it. Would you muzzle or try to warn anyone who approaches in the hope that eventually he'll learn that not all strangers are going to hurt him?

I'd definately muzzle him for the time being, but he is still a baby so make sure you train him well and he may learn not to.

I'd be tempted to muzzle him, just because you can relax and work on his problems without feeling on edge. I used to have my dog muzzled at all times due to fear based dog on dog aggression but we can now take him in contolled places with no muzzle as he can cope with dogs walking past and more to the point my nerves can cope with it :lol:

I agree with you that people are less likely to come up and say hello if they see a muzzle but you just have to be cheeky and ask them if they show any interest :) I did not know what my rescue was like with kids but due to him already wearing the muzzle it was not a problem introducing him to them when out on walks and he is great with them, he just ignores them or wags his tail.

What about finding a dog trainer that does group walks? He can then be muzzled and around 15+ people and their dogs doing something he enjoys?

I'd muzzle him for your own peace of mind. If you're worried about him growling or snapping at someone your vibes will pass down the lead and he'll pick up on it which could make him worse. If he's muzzled you'll be more relaxed so he should be calmer.Just get him out as much as possible and he should slowly improve. If you can, explain to people his problem and see if they'll help you by walking past/near him. I used to do this when walking the dog-aggressive dog I walk(who is so much better now) and most people were willing to help(especially young lads with staffies !!!). Good luck

If he's muzzled, you're likely to be more relaxed which will help him.

The reason I wouldn't approach a muzzled dog is because I don't know if that dog is happy to be approached and whilst Harley is obviously wary and needs to practice - a lot of people muzzle them and don't bother socialising/training them so I wouldn't want to put a dog through the stress of me approaching.

You could always ask people who walk by if they could say hello, if there's somewhere relatively local for us to meet, I'll come by and say hello on a walk and you're more than welcome to stand outside my class on a Friday evening and watch everyone go in - I'm sure a few of them would be happy to say hello while their partners take the dog in or whatever!

I'll be looking for a training class in the next few weeks or so anyway, I've just got to get all my finances into some sort of order first so I know how much I can spare. Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced (and of course good) trainer in the S8 sort of area (Batemoor / Lowedges / Woodseats)? And thanks for the advice everyone, looks like Harley will be finding himself muzzled shortly. My other worry is that he'll manage to get it off or shred it, he very nearly did that with the head collar we bought him.

I'll be looking for a training class in the next few weeks or so anyway, I've just got to get all my finances into some sort of order first so I know how much I can spare. Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced (and of course good) trainer in the S8 sort of area (Batemoor / Lowedges / Woodseats)? And thanks for the advice everyone, looks like Harley will be finding himself muzzled shortly. My other worry is that he'll manage to get it off or shred it, he very nearly did that with the head collar we bought him.

Get a plastic basket one. I've not seen a dog manage to get one of them off yet :) though the German Shepherds give them a good go.

Peanut butter on the muzzle is the trick I used. To start they put their head into it to lick it off, do this over a couple of days without fastening the muzzle on and just take your time building up the time then start fastening it for short periods. D took to his muzzle pretty quickly though he sometimes likes to try and get it off by shoving it into bushes, he gets a surprise when it is a holly bush :lol:

you could try getting a brave friend to help by walking with you,i would set off on the walk &part way through the walk get your friend to walk in opposite direction & when you pass each other pass them the lead and carry on walking giving loads of praise ,then hopefully in time he will understand that nothing scarey has happend , this should help him with his confidence, just another idea

dont muzzle him hes never had one on in his life he just needs to settle he was very attached to his family dont punish him for it hes never shown aggression to stranger before

dont muzzle him hes never had one on in his life he just needs to settle he was very attached to his family dont punish him for it hes never shown aggression to stranger before

Which would be the bigger punishment do you think? Muzzling him until he gets used to the idea that strangers are not a threat and stops growling and snapping at them or leaving him as he is and letting him accidentally bite a child (or indeed adult) and then have to have him PTS. I know which one I think would be the kinder option until he's settled and properly socialised.

Which would be the bigger punishment do you think? Muzzling him until he gets used to the idea that strangers are not a threat and stops growling and snapping at them or leaving him as he is and letting him accidentally bite a child (or indeed adult) and then have to have him PTS. I know which one I think would be the kinder option until he's settled and properly socialised.

Thats the line we took with ours, he was so dog aggressive at one point that he would thrash around and air snap, he was completely dangerous and my boyf got the brunt of it one day as he tried to calm him as another on lead dog passed by. D bit through three layers and a thick padded coat and although he only just broke the skin the arm did swell a lot and that was just a quick 'snap' From that day on he was muzzled. It was a pure panic accident but he was not safe without a muzzle and we had lost all confidence in him. I have a feeling that if we had not choosen to use a muzzle he would have been pts as he would have hurt someone by accident even though his aggression was not directed at people.

8 months down the line he still wears a muzzle when around offlead dogs though he can now play nicely with introduced dogs. He does not wear it in training class or when we are pavement walking or when we vist places where other onlead dogs are as he no longer panics and will just sit nicely. The dog might not like it but as an owner you have to protect others and your dog, a muzzle is just another training aid.

Which would be the bigger punishment do you think? Muzzling him until he gets used to the idea that strangers are not a threat and stops growling and snapping at them or leaving him as he is and letting him accidentally bite a child (or indeed adult) and then have to have him PTS. I know which one I think would be the kinder option until he's settled and properly socialised.

all im saying is he has never shown aggression in his life so he isent a dangerous dog, mine was the same when i got her but with dogs i had a few ppl teling ,e to muzzle her, i never did and now shes perfect i just kept her on lead and introduced her to other dogs but at a distance if she snapped i took her away she soon realised

all im saying is he has never shown aggression in his life so he isent a dangerous dog, mine was the same when i got her but with dogs i had a few ppl teling ,e to muzzle her, i never did and now shes perfect i just kept her on lead and introduced her to other dogs but at a distance if she snapped i took her away she soon realised

If you take a dog out in a public place that you know can pose a threat your treading in hot water the owner of the dog has a responsibility to the general public to keep there dog under control,if this mean using a muzzel then so be it .i certainly would muzzel a dog with aggressive tendancies. the law states that its the owners fault if the dog bites

the dog has never been aggressive in its life so something must have happend

The muzzle should not stress the dog so maybe it is not a bad thing to muzzle him that way he wont bite and you dont have to worry

this is slightly off topic but, ive seen a guy in a certain park with an american bull dog wearing a muzzle, a halti and two dog leads!!! he obviously doesnt trust the dog and it drags him al over the place.esp if it sees another dog!! . i love dogs more than people!! but i often wonder what kind of life it is for him and the dog to have to live like that because he obviously cant trust the dog in any way whatsoever . Whilst he is being a proper careful dog owner , i wonder what kind of enjoyment they each get from walking ....the guy being dragged everywhere and the poor dog muzzled up, haltied up etc and restricted....its a shame for both of them really.

Perhaps their homelife makes it worthwhile?

Eddy's a sod out on a walk - (granted he's not that bad, he's just grumpy) and I don't particularly enjoy walking him all that much but he's lovely with people and dogs he knows and is a lovely dog at home.

yes i can understand that ....but still a shame that walks cant be enjoyed

this is slightly off topic but, ive seen a guy in a certain park with an american bull dog wearing a muzzle, a halti and two dog leads!!! he obviously doesnt trust the dog and it drags him al over the place.esp if it sees another dog!! . i love dogs more than people!! but i often wonder what kind of life it is for him and the dog to have to live like that because he obviously cant trust the dog in any way whatsoever . Whilst he is being a proper careful dog owner , i wonder what kind of enjoyment they each get from walking ....the guy being dragged everywhere and the poor dog muzzled up, haltied up etc and restricted....its a shame for both of them really.

That sounds like us a year ago :lol: it is no fun. The amount of times I used to come home and feel like crying, luckily he is nowhere as big as an american bull dog (he's only 30Kg which I can cope with) We tried various places and people for help and it took just over a year to find the help that made the differance, though we picked up lots of tips on the way :) so it was still useful if a little expensive :lol:

yes i can understand that ....but still a shame that walks cant be enjoyed

It is, it's a great shame. I'm lucky that walks with Eddy don't really stress me out - they're just not as pleasurable as they could be. He did really well having come to me aged 11.5 years old and undersocialised, he didn't like other dogs one bit. 10 months later he was offlead, saying hi to dogs and great recall.

Then he started losing his sight and hearing and, possibly, his marbles... he went back to really disliking other dogs! I've decided now it's just the way he's going to be and at 14.5 years of age I just go along with it :lol: He's not so strong though and isn't really really bad, just has a grumble. Eddy's problem is he ignores me completely on walks - favouring smells etc and he's just not interested in me in the slightest so walks with him are nowhere near as fun as walks with Takara who is really interactive!

I wouldn't say Harley is aggressive, he comes across as terrified more than anything. He growls and snaps to warn people away. I don't know what could have caused this but we're determined to work on it and I'm thinking muzzling will allow us to work on it without running the risk of him actually biting someone.

What sort of headcollar did you used to walk him in previously?

I used to be a great fan of the Canny Collar - until I met - the K9 Bridle. This is absolutely marvelous - and I bet you would reduce your problems of the lunge/snatch/growl with him when walking. The action that the K9 bridle uses is that when the dog is out walking, it works sort of like a pully system so that if the dog lunges (and only when the dog puts itself into a taut position ), you have the ability to shorten the lead - which lowers the head at the poll, leaving the dog in a position that almost renders him incapable of lunging and biting. You need to gain experience how to do it properly - but once you master it, I'm sure it will help you loads.

Ensure you walk with the dog by your side - on a pretty short lead. Never ever allow the dog to walk an inch in front of your leg - or wander and sniff up trees or anything - but walk sharp and fast. You are out for a walk - and he is under your control.

Dogs that tend to lunge/growl and snap are often in-front of their owners, that they are 'protecting' and are usually not under proper control. If he is by your side - you are the one in control - and he must know - he doesn't need to protect you.

I think the Halti's are useless as it twists the dogs neck, can easily slide off and also - usually rubs the eyes and doesnt do what it should do at all.

I am not a behaviourist by any means - but i would be more than happy to walk with you - to try to help you walk him properly. I have seen so much success with the Canny - and the K9 bridle is even better - I think they are about £16.00 and well worth the money.

hows he getting on

Just remember when you take your dog out with a muzzle you're also taking away their only way of defending themselves if attacked by another dog which could in turn scar your dog mentally.


*Edit*

I also agree with the above poster, The canny collars are fantastic! I'm going to be on the look out for the other one mentioned too as I've never seen that one before!! :) I would seriously look into investing in one of them rather than a muzzle, Your dog will probably find that less stressful than a muzzle and you can control them so much better with that head collar.

I had a labrador that people would go up to and just assume she was friendly when really she could be quite weary of strangers but would avoid my jack russell who is one of the dopiest dogs ever.

Hi Nik Nak, re your dog. You should positively de-sensitise to wearing a muzzle in gradual brief stages about the house and with friends and fmaily before you take him out in public. Cream cheese is really good in the bottom of a platci muzzle for this process.
Most of the other posts are correct in that you will relax if the dog is muzzled. However I would not at this stage let people approach him and definitely not touch him. An alternative would be a well fitting halter such as the Dogmatic or Halti s that you can get him to sit and face you and not lunge towards passersby.
You need to teach him focus exercises including to 'Watch me, find his toy, sit, stay, and a really good recall. Your aim would be to associate every approach and passing by of people, at a distance initially with lots of fun and positive reinforcement. Only when you have practised this for some time and he is much more comfortable with approaches and close proximity should you consider a group training class. Flooding as a behavioural technique is potentially dangerous, because if you overwhelm him too soon by throwing him in at the deepo end with lots of strangers and other dogs, he could become defensive aggressive.

I offer 1-1 training in the S8 and beyond areas and my group courses are held near Dronfield. Please check the website or call if you want furthur help. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Vixc;5258942]Flooding as a behavioural technique is potentially dangerous, because if you overwhelm him too soon by throwing him in at the deepo end with lots of strangers and other dogs, he could become defensive aggressive. [QUOTE]

The group walks I go on you decide how close to the other people/ dogs you want be so for example a very person nervous GS that always used to walk on ahead of everyone can now walk happily with the group. I suppose it is just a controlled way of getting them used to it. My dog had massive problem with dog aggro and after a year of trainers it was the only thing that worked. We tried a lot of different techniques including all the ones you have mentioned but he was so upset nothing would calm him or more importantly distract him before he got upset he just had to see a dog at nearly any distance and he would be off on one!

Flooding I know is a technique that is greatly frowned on in modern dog training but for us as a last resort it worked :) I would always try all the newer more 'friendly' techniques still before I would go down the road I have though as they do seem to make much more sense.

We tried a canny collar which was ok but only brings the head down so they can still look in the direction you don't want them to, it makes it hard for them to bite though. A halti worked best at changing head direction (look at me command) but was a nightmare if he went into thrashing around mode :lol: Both are hard to use with a muzzle but the halti can be threaded through the bottom though this can lead to the muzzle coming off. The canny gets in the way on the bridge of the nose as it sits exactly where the muzzle sits.

I would recommend finding a trainer for 1:1 though even though we didn’t manage to get the aggro sorted via this route we picked up loads of tips for other things so it was worthwhile.