We noticed the below story in the SHEFFIELD STAR yesterday.

We are opposed to this move by Sheffield Police.

What do other people think of this story ?

=======================================


Addicts die in fear of the police
DRUG addicts in South Yorkshire are dying because people are too afraid to ring 999 for medical help for them when they fall ill.
Drug-related overdoses led to 33 deaths in South Yorkshire last year. The South Yorkshire Safety Partnership, made up of organisations working together to make the area safer, claims some of those deaths could have been prevented if medical help had been sought earlier
To try to encourage more people to ring 999 South Yorkshire Ambulance Service and South Yorkshire Police have now agreed that control room operators will no longer contact the police as a matter of course when there are reports of addicts falling ill.
Instead the ambulance service will respond to all the calls alone in the hope that people will ring for paramedics instead of leaving drug users to die.
Police will only be called out when there are children or vulnerable people at the scene, when there is a suspicious death or when paramedics are at risk.
The partnership claims national research has found the ambulance service is often not called to help drug users who have overdosed in the presence of other users or friends for fear of police attending and investigating.
DC Steve Duce, drug strategy co-ordinator for South Yorkshire Police, said: "This new move will mean more lives will be saved, and ensure that those who need urgent medical attention and treatment can call the ambulance service.
"We have a duty of care towards everyone, part of which is to ensure that all people feel they can access the medical attention they need.
"Our primary role is to protect lives, so if this new protocol means that people will ring 999 rather than leaving a drug user at the bottom of a stairwell, it has to be a positive move."
13 July 2005
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Personally if I were to see a druggie dying of an overdose I would do nothing.

I owe no duty of care to them in law and am under no moral or legal obligation to assist. It would be one less no hoper and thief on the streets.

I think your title implies that people will be left to die because Police are not acting which is misleading - is that what you intended?

Originally posted by autenite
Personally if I were to see a druggie dying of an overdose I would do nothing.

I owe no duty of care to them in law and am under no moral or legal obligation to assist. It would be one less no hoper and thief on the streets.

im in total agreement with you on that one:)

Why are you against it Pete? Surely if it means that the friends of the dying drug addict will ring for help without the fear of prosecution, then that must be good? A life might just be saved. Is it because you fear the ambulance crew may suffer assault without the police presence? You say "we" are against it. Are you a member of the emergency services?
Personally I can see where they are coming from and these people must have more experience and knowledge of such circumstances than I have. I would say go ahead and give it a go. If it doesn't work it can allways be reversed. If it saves just one life then it has to be good.
Autenite I can understand your feelings.........BUT......please make sure that if you ever come across a dying druggie, that you have it in writing that he is just that! I had a huge man drop down on the floor behind me in town one day. Everybody was walking past him looking down their noses as if he was scum. I went to him and single handedly pushed and pulled him into the recovery position. It was opposite the old court buildings and there were police officers stood outside just watching me! Once I had got him in the right position and loosened off his garments from around his neck they finally came over and took over! Ok......it was a few years ago but the disdain on the publics face was the same. That poor man was viewed as some sort of a drunk but I never smelt any alcohol on him. I suspect he had had a heart attack but the bloody police shoved me out of the way after I had done the business so I never got to find out.
I also have personal experience of somebody dying because the emergency services were not called. This person was not a drug addict either. If only life was so simple.

Originally posted by petebarker
We are opposed to this move by Sheffield Police.


Are you opposed to everything SYP do, because of what happened to your brother?

I totally agree with this policy. Too many people have died of overdoses for fear of calling the police. In my youth I knew a few addicts and one who died. The ones I kept in contact with are now drug free and useful members of society,

Alastair

This seems to be an excellent policy that will save lives.

What's damning is the cowardice of the 'friends' of these drug users who would rather their friend die than they have the police turn up.

Pete, who is 'we' and why are you opposed to it? I know from my time on the Forum that you have problems with SYP, but why is this policy so wrong? Surely saving a life is a good idea?

Joe

You would prefer to see people die? That seems a touch callous to me...

I'm sorry Pete, but your thread title is totally misleading.

This has been agreed between the ambulance service and the police as a way of preserving life, not "leaving people to die".

Are you so stupid or single-minded that you can't appreciate that?

I also agree with it. I know it may sound stupid but they are probably more able to help and catch the suppliers if the druggie lives and is in hospital, rather than finding him/her dead at a scene and alone.

Originally posted by autenite
Personally if I were to see a druggie dying of an overdose I would do nothing.

I owe no duty of care to them in law and am under no moral or legal obligation to assist. It would be one less no hoper and thief on the streets.

I totally agree too, the more that drugs get the better of the better in my eyes, drugs are disgusting filthy things and people chose to do them, they are not forced to. At the end of the day if the police are called to an addict overdosing by their 'friend' then the friend should be punished, as drugs are still illegal. It's giving addicts the chance to do their drugs with the backing of the police. When will this stupidity stop?!

Youwhatref - how many addicts do you know that will grass on dealers?!! None of them will through fear of being caught, it's not worth their life.

How much extra money will this cost us decent, working, tax-paying citezans to keep this scum alive through all the fault of their own?! millions! How often will the NHS see each druggie? If a druggie comes in after overdosing and there's also a serious accident in, where would the priority lie? I just feel that they choose the life they take so they should deal with the consequences, if thats death then so be it, i've always been told that drugs lead to death in the long run anyway.

Originally posted by tinkabel
How much extra money will this cost us decent, working, tax-paying citezans to keep this scum alive through all the fault of their own?! millions! How often will the NHS see each druggie? If a druggie comes in after overdosing and there's also a serious accident in, where would the priority lie? I just feel that they choose the life they take so they should deal with the consequences, if thats death then so be it, i've always been told that drugs lead to death in the long run anyway.

I take it this also applies to smokers, drinkers, drivers, those that take part in contact sports, the overweight all of which voluntarily take part in damaging pastimes of their own free will?

Does it also apply to all the yuppie london coke heads? Or middle class pill poppin students?

Originally posted by JoePritchard
This seems to be an excellent policy that will save lives.

What's damning is the cowardice of the 'friends' of these drug users who would rather their friend die than they have the police turn up.

Pete, who is 'we' and why are you opposed to it? I know from my time on the Forum that you have problems with SYP, but why is this policy so wrong? Surely saving a life is a good idea?

Joe

there seems to be quite a swing towards an all drug users are skum and thieving toerags attitude on this board at times, thats why i think they object to it, theyd rather see somebody die just because they might dabble in a few drugs ..........which tbh i find way more offensive than the couple of jokes ive tod that have supposedly offended people

Originally posted by melthebell
there seems to be quite a swing towards an all drug users are skum and thieving toerags attitude on this board at times, thats why i think they object to it, theyd rather see somebody die just because they might dabble in a few drugs ..........which tbh i find way more offensive than the couple of jokes ive tod that have supposedly offended people

My comment here is based purely on the fact that no one should be left to die because they've screwed up, got hooked and have found themselves surrounded by people who haven't the balls to help them.

As I've worked with recovering drug addicts in the past, I don't think most addicts are scum and toerags, although it's a form of behaviour I dislike. I do think that dealers do drop in to the scum category; they're peddling misery - even the 'I just deal to my friends' crowd. Actually, I'd say that they're the worst...

And as for your jokes - well, if someone complains officially about any post, we take it on board. Could be that they just weren't that funny....

Joe

this word 'Druggies'
who are these druggies,insignificant pieces of ....
these low life people
where do they come from
has there been an invasion from another planet and they have been left behind

these 'Druggies' are Sons and Daughters of many good Sheffield folk
One is mine, and i have watched him battle his addiction for years
He is now on yet another programme....fingers crossed again

as it is in life there are two sides to every story

Yes as a parents of a drug user we have been to hell and back AND so has our son
I hope, pray, dread that the body you see lying on the ground is not my lad
but it will be the son,daughter of some mother,somewhere

Originally posted by scotia
this word 'Druggies'
who are these druggies,insignificant pieces of ....
these low life people
where do they come from
has there been an invasion from another planet and they have been left behind

these 'Druggies' are Sons and Daughters of many good Sheffield folk
One is mine, and i have watched him battle his addiction for years
He is now on yet another programme....fingers crossed again

as it is in life there are two sides to every story

Yes as a parents of a drug user we have been to hell and back AND so has our son
I hope, pray, dread that the body you see lying on the ground is not my lad
but it will be the son,daughter of some mother,somewhere

about time somebody spoke sense about something that aint nice but DOES happen, you cant sweep it under the carpet, not all druggies are skum.

thanks joe too, i understood your point ..........my jokes were hilarious............honest............just thought id reply to this post :)

Originally posted by scotia
Yes as a parents of a drug user we have been to hell and back AND so has our son
I hope, pray, dread that the body you see lying on the ground is not my lad
but it will be the son,daughter of some mother,somewhere
Your son is lucky to have a parent who does not accept the received wisdom of 'druggies' being equivalent with 'evil'. I wish you and your son the best in breaking the grip.

I don't pray as such, but if I did it would be for less people hoping to see dead drug addicts.

As the parent of, I'm guessing, an opiate addict, may I ask you what is your opinion of the Transform Drug Policy Forum's agenda to legalize and regulate all drugs? Their policy is based on harm reduction and is predicated upon the fact that the damaging effects of drugs are greatly magnified by the policy of prohibition.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/ - transform

Originally posted by evildrneil
I take it this also applies to smokers, drinkers, drivers, those that take part in contact sports, the overweight all of which voluntarily take part in damaging pastimes of their own free will?

All of the above that you have mentioned are legal, taking drugs is not so your comment is not relevant at all, we are talking here about the scum that abuse their bodies and then expect us to help them out. The best help we could give them is to chuck them all in rehab until they are clean and then if they go back to drugs then leave them to do whatever damage they like to themselves without it costing us millions every year to keep them alive and messing up our streets.

Originally posted by tinkabel
All of the above that you have mentioned are legal, taking drugs is not so your comment is not relevant at all, we are talking here about the scum that abuse their bodies and then expect us to help them out. The best help we could give them is to chuck them all in rehab until they are clean and then if they go back to drugs then leave them to do whatever damage they like to themselves without it costing us millions every year to keep them alive and messing up our streets. thats the thing........whats legal and whats not...........oh theyre scum cos they take things that are illegal.........oh thats ok cos thats not illegal???? get a grip
theres actually not that nuch difference between whats legal and whats not.........both lots can damage you or others

Originally posted by tinkabel
All of the above that you have mentioned are legal, taking drugs is not so your comment is not relevant at all, we are talking here about the scum that abuse their bodies and then expect us to help them out. The best help we could give them is to chuck them all in rehab until they are clean and then if they go back to drugs then leave them to do whatever damage they like to themselves without it costing us millions every year to keep them alive and messing up our streets.

I'm guessing this simplistic analysis stems from inexperience rather than deliberate obutseness or stupidity, but I will naturally stand corrected on that.

What is the difference between a drug that is legal, and a drug that is not - apart from the obvious legal status? You must know the answer to that, since your argument seems to state that legal drugs are somehow less dangerous or evil than illegal ones.

"the scum that abuse their bodies" with illegal drugs are no different to the "scum that abuse their bodies" with legal drugs.

Originally posted by tinkabel
All of the above that you have mentioned are legal, taking drugs is not so your comment is not relevant at all, we are talking here about the scum that abuse their bodies and then expect us to help them out. The best help we could give them is to chuck them all in rehab until they are clean and then if they go back to drugs then leave them to do whatever damage they like to themselves without it costing us millions every year to keep them alive and messing up our streets.

Ermmm you didn't mention legality - simply people partaking in activities that would lead to death. And when it comes to it, what costs us more the activities of "druggies" or people who drink (policing and hospital costs on a friday/saterday night are horific), smoke (which costs the NHS 1.7 BILLION a year) etc.?

And why does legality impinge on your argument that people should be allowed to die because they choose to partake in activities known to be dangerous???

Originally posted by JoePritchard
My comment here is based purely on the fact that no one should be left to die because they've screwed up, got hooked and have found themselves surrounded by people who haven't the balls to help them.

As I've worked with recovering drug addicts in the past, I don't think most addicts are scum and toerags, although it's a form of behaviour I dislike. I do think that dealers do drop in to the scum category; they're peddling misery - even the 'I just deal to my friends' crowd. Actually, I'd say that they're the worst...

And as for your jokes - well, if someone complains officially about any post, we take it on board. Could be that they just weren't that funny....

Joe

Well spoken Joe.

Unfortunately, every 11 days, a person dies in Sheffield due to illegal drugs. According to the STAR article, they are almost always left in the stairwell.

In my opinion, this new policy is a recipe for murder. If I wanted to kill someone, just inject them with heroin. No problemo ! We hate some people that live at BroomHall Estate. To inject them will solve all our probs.

It is also very clear that Sheff police are already doing nothing, when they assume the dead person is a 'druggie'.

To me, it looks like the Police are steadily trying to get away with doing nothing yet again.

Some readers on this board should understand what is known as the JAMESON case. In most countries in the World, to just 'walk by' and let someone die is a major crime. In Scotland, if you know that someone needs medical attention, you can be prosecuted.

I was surprised to see that a Detective Constable(DC) was the voice of the Police in Sheffield. Gods sakes, most DC's haven't even learned to tie their own shoelaces without help !



Also, I have skimmed through the posts on this thread. Some mention about the law.

What is the law ?

In my town the law is frequently broken, for example; the use of mobile phones when driving. The illegal parking on double yellow lines. The illegal dumping of rubbish.

My next door neighbour has TWO wives and families.


Just what is 'the law' ?

To the 'Mod' JoeP: the 'we' are my family mate. I also think your posts on this thread are well thought out.


We also hope that SCOTIA does not have to go where my family have been. Keep plugging away scotia !

I used to work in A/E.
One day the doors flew open & we were alerted to a lot of yelling & banging.
A group of ...erm... young gentlemen dumped another young gentleman in the corridor, shouted 'he's overdosed on drugs' then scarpered.

To say this lad was blue would be an understatement.

We dragged him into resus & hoisted him onto the trolley - risking our backs & not knowing what 'sharps' he had on him risking possible HIV/ hepatitis infection.

He was quickly successfully resuscitated & the reversing naloxone given.

Then he threatened to kill us all because we'd wasted his money.

That was one of many negative experiences of resuscitating addicts.

God help us if the attitudes on here are common in society.

Originally posted by dan_999uk
God help us if the attitudes on here are common in society.

Which attitudes?

I think that both sides of the coin have their adherents in this thread.

I feel that most people in society don't really have strong views because for most people, even today, one of the nearest and dearest overdosing is NOT a common part of their lives.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Which attitudes?

I think that both sides of the coin have their adherents in this thread.

I feel that most people in society don't really have strong views because for most people, even today, one of the nearest and dearest overdosing is NOT a common part of their lives.

Joe

yeah but i think there is strong views in society cos the majority DO think ah well bloody druggies, theyve brung it on themselves

Originally posted by petebarker
In my opinion, this new policy is a recipe for murder. If I wanted to kill someone, just inject them with heroin. No problemo ! We hate some people that live at BroomHall Estate. To inject them will solve all our probs.

It is also very clear that Sheff police are already doing nothing, when they assume the dead person is a 'druggie'.

To me, it looks like the Police are steadily trying to get away with doing nothing yet again.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. Mine is that this move could be a life-saver. Reading the original quote, it says the police will not be called "as a matter of course". How many of those people who die every 11 days might be saved if the overdose can be reported?

I also support those who stand up for the right of addicts (using emotive words like "druggies" hardly promotes calm debate) to basic human rights like healthcare. It's nice to know that a fair number of you would walk away from a member of my family and leave them to die if they got into drug problems.

I know this may seem evil but - think of it this way.
Which situation would the police go out to sort out first?

1> Someone who is trapped in a car crash
2> Some druggie dying from an OD

Basically, I think, if you mess about with drugs, you reap the whirlwind so to speak, but if I did see someone who needed help, I would of course try and do my best I could to help them out.

I dont like people who take drugs- sorry..

If you need to be drugged up to the eyeballs everyday of your life then you drop into my category of 'I dont care if you really die or not' .. but as I said before.. if I see someone on the street in need of assistance then I'm there to help.

and if the person driving had caused the car crash through dangerous driving?

Originally posted by ANGELUS
I know this may seem evil but - think of it this way.
Which situation would the police go out to sort out first?

1> Someone who is trapped in a car crash
2> Some druggie dying from an OD

Basically, I think, if you mess about with drugs, you reap the whirlwind so to speak, but if I did see someone who needed help, I would of course try and do my best I could to help them out.

I dont like people who take drugs- sorry..

If you need to be drugged up to the eyeballs everyday of your life then you drop into my category of 'I dont care if you really die or not' .. but as I said before.. if I see someone on the street in need of assistance then I'm there to help.

the thing is you dont have to be drugged up to the eyeballs

what about your 16 year old daughter that tries heroin for the very first time?

or your brother that was off smack but tries it one more time but does too much by accident?

Originally posted by ANGELUS
I know this may seem evil but - think of it this way.
Which situation would the police go out to sort out first?

1> Someone who is trapped in a car crash
2> Some druggie dying from an OD

Basically, I think, if you mess about with drugs, you reap the whirlwind so to speak, but if I did see someone who needed help, I would of course try and do my best I could to help them out.

I dont like people who take drugs- sorry..

If you need to be drugged up to the eyeballs everyday of your life then you drop into my category of 'I dont care if you really die or not' .. but as I said before.. if I see someone on the street in need of assistance then I'm there to help.

Either you do care whether we live or die, or you don't.

You seem to be suggesting that you do both.

Originally posted by carter101
and if the person driving had caused the car crash through dangerous driving?

Then they fall into my same bracket!

The police would go to the crash though.. I reckon this would take priority.

the thing is you dont have to be drugged up to the eyeballs

what about your 16 year old daughter that tries heroin for the very first time?

or your brother that was off smack but tries it one more time but does too much by accident?

I would be very dissapointed if my daughter or any of my family for that matter was a drug user.. sorry if that causes any offence but I'm so anti-drugs you would not believe.


Either you do care whether we live or die, or you don't.
You seem to be suggesting that you do both.

If I saw someone in the street who needs medical help, then yep I would care if they lived or died.. If I saw a report on the news about an addict who has never wanted to get clean, then sorry, I have no compassion for them.

Originally posted by ANGELUS


I would be very dissapointed if my daughter or any of my family for that matter was a drug user.. sorry if that causes any offence but I'm so anti-drugs you would not believe.


every parents dissapointed..........stands to reason, the point is if its your child you still love them and would do anything for them
and would feel devestated if they died cos their friends were too scared to phone an ambulance cos of fear of arrest............even if your daughter / son was a "druggie"

Originally posted by melthebell
every parents dissapointed..........stands to reason, the point is if its your child you still love them and would do anything for them
and would feel devestated if they died cos their friends were too scared to phone an ambulance cos of fear of arrest............even if your daughter / son was a "druggie"

Thats very true what you said.

I would be dissapointed, because I dont think there is really any need to use drugs if you are truly happy in your life, so I would be really dissapointed if my kids ever took drugs- it would mean to me that I had not done the best for them and given them a happy lifestyle (just my personal view on the subject).

I would feel devastated if they died because of their friends negligence.

I have always been brought up with the idea of 'you can do anything you want- but you face yourself the consequences of your actions in life' and I'd want to teach this to my kids also.

I'd teach my kids also that you dont need drugs, booze and cigs to have a good life, there are many other wonderful things out there that you can find to entertain yourself.. you dont need the bad stuff to enjoy yourself.

thank you for your words of support Petebarker
we battle on

in answer to your question Phanerothyme (had a look at the web site)
i think each individual has to be treated according to the needs and circumstance
i only speak of personal experience, my lad wants to be clean,so we see after a long struggle he is at last on the right path.

i stopped and helped a man who was absolutely blottered with drink.
he was laid in a small pool of blood
it was pouring down with rain
i took my coat off and covered him, phoned for an ambulance
and waited until they came about 25mins
Never heard ought, nor have seen the man again
i got a stinking cold for my troubles
Should I have stopped and helped
I am total tee-totaller

as far as i am concerned same dog different pile of ****

just my thoughts ( i am entitled to them )

Originally posted by scotia
thank you for your words of support Petebarker
we battle on

in answer to your question Phanerothyme (had a look at the web site)
i think each individual has to be treated according to the needs and circumstance
i only speak of personal experience, my lad wants to be clean,so we see after a long struggle he is at last on the right path.

i stopped and helped a man who was absolutely blottered with drink.
he was laid in a small pool of blood
it was pouring down with rain
i took my coat off and covered him, phoned for an ambulance
and waited until they came about 25mins
Never heard ought, nor have seen the man again
i got a stinking cold for my troubles
Should I have stopped and helped
I am total tee-totaller

as far as i am concerned same dog different pile of ****

just my thoughts ( i am entitled to them )

My best wishes to your family and to your son.. I hope he gets well again soon.. Well done to you and your family for hanging in there with him also.

I think you did the right thing, you helped someone in need and you may have saved a life in doing so.. thats what counts.

You can always tell what the theme is going to be of any thread that pete barker starts up and yet again, the SYP and the ambulance service this time seem to have got dragged into the foray.

The idea in the intial report as many forumers have commented would be an attempt to get the drug users friends to call for the ambulance service in an attempt to try and save thier mates life without the fear of prosecution.

Regardless as to peoples opinions about the rights and wrongs about that, this is an attempt to save lives as oppose to letting them die which is what this thread seemed to try and imply in its beginning.

As for slagging DC Steve Duce implying the guy cannot event tie his shoelaces as he is a DC, then perhaps you ought to have tried to do the job maybe the SYP dont realise what an assest they missed in not recruiting you.

Yes I have read some of your previous threads and I know you have had your problems in the past with dealings with the police but try and post something on a thread relating to a different subject, you might enjoy it instead of always having a go and depressing everyone.

Originally posted by autenite
Personally if I were to see a druggie dying of an overdose I would do nothing.

I owe no duty of care to them in law and am under no moral or legal obligation to assist. It would be one less no hoper and t hief on the streets. The more the better

Originally posted by scotia
this word 'Druggies'
who are these druggies,insignificant pieces of ....
these low life people
where do they come from
has there been an invasion from another planet and they have been left behind

these 'Druggies' are Sons and Daughters of many good Sheffield folk
One is mine, and i have watched him battle his addiction for years
He is now on yet another programme....fingers crossed again

as it is in life there are two sides to every story

Yes as a parents of a drug user we have been to hell and back AND so has our son
I hope, pray, dread that the body you see lying on the ground is not my lad
but it will be the son,daughter of some mother,somewhere

Some mother who has FAILED in her DUTY of CARE or was negligent in her duty and thus could potentially be held liable in law.

No one else owes any duty unless they have accepted it voluntarialy. So blaming their friends for their failure to act is pointless they owe no duty in law to take any action and cannot be held liable for that failure.

Originally posted by melthebell
about time somebody spoke sense about something that aint nice but DOES happen, you cant sweep it under the carpet, not all druggies are skum.

thanks joe too, i understood your point ..........my jokes were hilarious............honest............just thought id reply to this post :)


ALL druggies are criminals and scum not to mention hopeless sad gits who cant handle life and ought to take an overdose as soon as possible and rid the state of the expense of their upkeep rehab is a waste of time and valuable resources that could profitably be used on other more deserving health programmes.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Either you do care whether we live or die, or you don't.

You seem to be suggesting that you do both.


Personally I think if you are a druggie I would prefer you die. And I dont care if you use cannabis, coke, speed, exctasy, crack, heroin or any other illegal drug.

Originally posted by autenite
ALL druggies are criminals and scum not to mention hopeless sad gits who cant handle life and ought to take an overdose as soon as possible and rid the state of the expense of their upkeep rehab is a waste of time and valuable resources that could profitably be used on other more deserving health programmes.

Just wondering autenite, whether you feel the same about smokers, drinkers and folk who are obese?

Originally posted by autenite
Personally I think if you are a druggie I would prefer you die. And I dont care if you use cannabis, coke, speed, exctasy, crack, heroin or any other illegal drug.

i agree with a lot of what you say but not all drug users are scum they are some who dabble in them and they can handle t6he drugs they take and they dont ask us to fund them either

but they are others who prefer to get there money by robbing and asking for money well im not going to fund there scummy habit thank you

my son left the family home at 22yrs old
he was working and living down South

We had done our job well as parents

he is an adult who got into bother

as a responsible adult/parent..with choice... we chose to help him all we can and will continue to do so

i wont revert to immature comments autenite.............

yes i will i've changed my mind

you dont know me,or anything about me or mine

what little i know of you is too much
so glad you are no friend of mine with such a narrow mind and brain that is definitely out of sinc with the gob
we all have an opinion perhaps you should think twice before you express yours .....silly person that you are

Originally posted by autenite
Personally if I were to see a druggie dying of an overdose I would do nothing.

I owe no duty of care to them in law and am under no moral or legal obligation to assist. It would be one less no hoper and thief on the streets.
Not all drug user are no hopers, a lot suffer from all kinds off illnesses,Depression for one which devistates anyone who has been through this.The drug dealers are scum & no hopers who leach of poor unfortunate people in our society & as far as I am concerned they kill & get away with it.

Originally posted by autenite
Personally I think if you are a druggie I would prefer you die. And I dont care if you use cannabis, coke, speed, exctasy, crack, heroin or any other illegal drug.
What a silly person you are,you know nothing of the suffering of the drug taker & there family's ,so best not say something you know nothing about,the next drug user could be a relative of yours or a best friend so speak wisely & think before you say such nasty evil thing's.

Originally posted by scotia
my son left the family home at 22yrs old
he was working and living down South

We had done our job well as parents

he is an adult who got into bother

as a responsible adult/parent..with choice... we chose to help him all we can and will continue to do so

i wont revert to immature comments autenite.............

yes i will i've changed my mind

you dont know me,or anything about me or mine

what little i know of you is too much
so glad you are no friend of mine with such a narrow mind and brain that is definitely out of sinc with the gob
we all have an opinion perhaps you should think twice before you express yours .....silly person that you are
Well said Scotia,I lost my son aged 24 through drugs 4 yrs ago & to see him suffer was terrible,he suffered from Clinical Depression & Compulsive Drug Disorder.I hope your son is ok now.A good post Scotia

Thank you Tosh

YOUR comments mean something to me

I am So sorry for your loss

to lose a child is surely every parents dread no matter the circumstances

autenite r u reading all that spiel out of some i hate everybody manual?

Originally posted by PottShrigley
I totally agree with this policy. Too many people have died of overdoses for fear of calling the police. In my youth I knew a few addicts and one who died. The ones I kept in contact with are now drug free and useful members of society,

Alastair

I know so little about your life.
Why?

Your Estranged Daughter xx

Originally posted by autenite
Personally I think if you are a druggie I would prefer you die. And I dont care if you use cannabis, coke, speed, exctasy, crack, heroin or any other illegal drug.

what about 5-(Aminomethyl)-3(2H)-isoxazolone. It's a powerful deleriant and hallucinogen with a fearsome reputation and a steep dose response curve.

It's also legal.

Presumably, by your logic, anyone having ingested this legal drug would be due the full assistance of the emergency services and NHS healthcare provision when they found themselves in respiratory difficulties.

And thus if drugs were legalised, you would have no problem with them.

I think what you are experiencing is an emotional reponse to a problem you don't understand.

Thanks to you Scotia,my son was a great lad he never robbed anyone's house,as he suffered from Compulsive Drug Disorder he went weeks without taking anything mainly Cannabis,but the Physiciatrists he was under said he was in danger because of his Clinical Depression one minute he was fine & the next he was so down he would not speak to anyone,I went with him on several occasions for treatment & he tried so hard,but the scum drug dealers would not leave him alone & he passed away due to smoking Cannabis all weekend leading up to his death & he smoked a small amount of Heroin,his body shutdown & we are still suffering to this day 4 yrs after.He left a son & partner.Our grandson who is 6 yrs now looks so much like him & this get's us through the tough times.So when people say that people who take drugs should die well that is a cruel thing to say, as there are alway's different circumstances that can lead up to drug taking.So I say if people have not gone through this with a family member or friend they should learn to shut up.

Originally posted by autenite
Personally I think if you are a druggie I would prefer you die. And I dont care if you use cannabis, coke, speed, exctasy, crack, heroin or any other illegal drug.

So can I just clarify the point? You think that an occasional cannabis user deserves to die?

I dont think i could walk past someone who i could see needed help, for me it would be the wrong thing to do, id have to help... But the police see this type of thing everyday, and at somepoint someone must think enough is enough, you can only help someone so much, they must want to help themselfs, and many dont... even with all all the love and help of a good family, some just find it too hard..
One thing id like to ask is:
If people on drugs are left to die, are the drunks, people with Compulsive Disorders, mental heath problems, next on the list?

A life is a life, no matter what.

The whole point of the article was that the police were co-operating with the hospitals and trying to save lives not leave them to die!

The title is misleading and I think the MODs should change it as it is one person's problem with SYC.

I think it is a good policy and serves everyone well.... I myself, regardless of what someone does to themselves by their own hand, could not leave ANYONE to die.

I would also hope that noone would leave me to die if I was ever in trouble - even if I looked drunk or someone didn't like the way I dressed or talked!

Scotia and Tosh - sorry for both your circumstances and it is best to remember that this forum attracts many opinions - some more outspoken than others - some less educated than others and some just downright rude and thoughtless.

:)

The interesting thing about this thread is that pete barker has not come back on once having started this one off. ??

Is this simply a case of him not having thought what the report he was going on about actually said as so many members have rightly pointed out on here that it is actually a way of helping these people when their mates are too afraid at times to call for help.

In which case as a simple sorry didn't read the article in that light would have done as I myself did the other day when I had a go at someone on here who referred to the 7/7/05 bombs as a practice and when it was pointed out to me that this had actually been the case and emergency practices were actually advertised as being planned that day and I got hold of the wrong end of the stick I apologised unreservedly.

But no, not in this case, pete has simply had another go, loaded the gun albeit incorrectly and waited for it to go off which on this occasion it seems to have backfired as more forumers seem to be backing this scheme which is supported by the SYP instead of having a go at them which was probably the initial intention of the thread.

juicy b125

I never made the title up. It was an article in the SHEFFIELD STAR.

I unfortunately know that the Police in South Yorkshire have been allowing this to happen for many years, i.e. allowing so called druggies to die, without seriously questioning the other people, who are so called 'friends'. Maybe it is the same policy in many other parts of the UK, but it is still wrong. I can only say what I personally know to be true.


Maybe most druggies do bring it on themselves.

But for the Police to negate their responsibilities in ANY suspicious death, is tantamount to manslaughter.

By the way, I was involved in the emergency services. I have family that are Police and also family that are in the Medical profession.

Our family have suffered from lax Police policy in Sheffield. We don't want anyone else's family to suffer.

Is pointing out what we have endured wrong ?

Just a thought.

What if the person who was found dead, had not been a drug user for over 15 years . But was found with almost 20 injection wounds in less than 6 hours ?


What if the 'friends' had been beating the person up and robbing them (and the Police knew and had evidence of same)?

Or, they had no history of drug abuse at all ?

This is just hyperbole, of course.

This Police policy is wrong and lazy policing.


New York showed us that zero tolerance of crime is the correct way forward.

Surely, if the person is still alive, it is better that they get medical help sooner rather than later? If encouraging people to call for an ambulance is the price the police must pay then so be it.

Obviously, if a person is already dead, then it is up to the police to investigate.

I have to say I feel really sorry for some of the people who have found themselves hooked on drugs - it is an addiction which most people would not want for themselves or their children. We cannot ignore it any longer - it is happening and it is something we must tackle - many of these people are not 'bad' but have lost their way in life, it is therefore up to us to help them surely? We've all made mistakes in life, fortunately we haven't ended up on drugs - but it could be your son, your daughter ..... please think about how we can help these people kick their habit and live a fruitful life.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Just wondering autenite, whether you feel the same about smokers, drinkers and folk who are obese?

Are some of us not understanding the Laws of the land here??

firstly the issue raised here was that of the Police leaving drug addicts to die without giving satisfactory help or advice.

secondly it points a finger at the addicts friends who were the real culprits, I'm sure most people on this forum would contact an ambulance at the very least if someone was seriuosly ill.

and lastly people seem to mising the fact that drug use / possesion is illegal, whereas smoking a fag having a beer or possesion of a large gut is and has never been illegal !!!!

besides I'd rather smell ciggy smoke than the stench that comes from weed, that smells like bad B.O. !!!

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Are some of us not understanding the Laws of the land here??

firstly the issue raised here was that of the Police leaving drug addicts to die without giving satisfactory help or advice.

secondly it points a finger at the addicts friends who were the real culprits, I'm sure most people on this forum would contact an ambulance at the very least if someone was seriuosly ill.

and lastly people seem to mising the fact that drug use / possesion is illegal, whereas smoking a fag having a beer or possesion of a large gut is and has never been illegal !!!!

besides I'd rather smell ciggy smoke than the stench that comes from weed, that smells like bad B.O. !!!

You must have missed the argument this was a response to which was (in precis) if you do things known to be bad for you then you deserve everything you get and should be left in the gutter to die! However this "argument" equally well applies to drinking, smoking, overeating, driving, sex, eating red meat, taking part in contact sports and frequenting McDonalds!

.. and of course the Police aren't leaving people to die.

They are trying to create an environment where people get medical treatment regardless of the legality of the situation.

Exactly Tony - and if anyone is unfortunate enough to die then the police will investigate it. All this policy does is allow people to get medical help for someone who has overdosed without the fear of prosecution which is surely a good thing? It doesn't say anything of the sort that deaths won't be investigated.

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
besides I'd rather smell ciggy smoke than the stench that comes from weed, that smells like bad B.O. !!!

but ciggy smoke willl kill you - weed smoke will not

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
but ciggy smoke willl kill you - weed smoke will not

I would like to know where you get that gem of information.

I have yet to see any learned papers indicating anything of the sort.

Infact the little research that has been done seems to indicate that the smoke from burning of cannabis is at least as carcinogenic as tobacco smoke, though tetrahydrocannabinol is less toxic than nicotine.

A dose of THC similar to that obtained from smoking a good quality joint has produced toxic reactions resulting in psychotic episodes and extreme paranoia in 10% of humans in laboratory tests.

But tobacco is LEGAL cannabis is ILLEGAL and I have yet to meet a cannabis user that did not show the symptoms of paranoia and psychosis. I doubt it is quite as harmless as you suggest. But as thay say ignorance is bliss.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Exactly Tony - and if anyone is unfortunate enough to die then the police will investigate it. All this policy does is allow people to get medical help for someone who has overdosed without the fear of prosecution which is surely a good thing? It doesn't say anything of the sort that deaths won't be investigated.



I don't wish to particularly focus on the poster of this mail.

It is the message that we have a problem with.

My family were visited by very senior Sheffield police officers on Weds 27th.July. We won't name them for now.

It is perfectly obvious that the Police regard all so called drug deaths as the same. And are not to be investigated, as they are just a burden on the purse. A very stereotypical attitude. Of course, most druggies are scum. But what if they are targetted by druggies, robbed, and finally murdered by lethal injection ?

Even one of the senior Police Officers stated in our case, and most likely in most cases, the 'druggies' are too concerned about their own sorry arses to even bother about anyone elses death. They still will not ring for help. Many good thinking people on here assume that everyone thinks as they do. The 'lowlifes' do not have any humanity, nor think as we do. 'Lowlifes' do not visit sites like this one.


My family only wish was that my brothers death had been properly investigated in 2001 by the Police.

It was not.


My families case proves the Police will not investigate thoroughly.

Even the Coroner (Mr. C. Dorries) pointed out the laxity of Sheffield Police investigations at the Inquest in October 2004.

The Police did nothing, except cover their sorry pensions.


If I wanted to murder someone, then I would just inject them with a lethal dose of heroin in Sheffield.

The perfect crime.

No questions are asked !

You really want to see the Police questioning,of the main culprit regarding a suspicious death in Sheffield. We have the written statement and the South Yorks Police audio tape in our possession as ordered by HM CORONER.

It was absolutely pathetic.


Nice one Prof. Moriarty.

surely the message was that the police won't prosecute everyone they find in a drug den if the emergency services are called because someone needs help.
That's the message that was being sent out, you're conveniently ignoring it to make your own point.

Originally posted by Cyclone
surely the message was that the police won't prosecute everyone they find in a drug den if the emergency services are called because someone needs help.
That's the message that was being sent out, you're conveniently ignoring it to make your own point.

Spot on Cyclone, then someone decided to make it anti social to enjoy what ever other vice in life you may have and went of the subject completely. Thanks for bringing this thread back to the begining.

Originally posted by Cyclone
surely the message was that the police won't prosecute everyone they find in a drug den if the emergency services are called because someone needs help.
That's the message that was being sent out, you're conveniently ignoring it to make your own point.


Looks like some on here are arguing for the sake of it.

In my families case, the Police arrested NO=ONE. At least FOUR people were involved in my brothers death.

Even though these characters have form, the main culprit is now doing a 'lot of time' for another unrelated offence,
( which landed him with a sentence of over 5 years imprisonment).

Some form of armed robbery, apparently, he committed. In other words, this guy is way off the 'civilised person meter'. He is known as a major drug dealer in Sheffield too.

And my point is, to cyclone ?

The report you highlighted doesn't say anything about there not being investigations if people die - it's simply a way to make it more likely that if a person does OD that they get medical help. Do you agree or disagree with this? Would you prefer to see people die from an OD rather than get medical help?

I'm afraid you do rather seem to be twisting this report to make a personal (and only peripherally related) point.

Originally posted by petebarker
Looks like some on here are arguing for the sake of it.

In my families case, the Police arrested NO=ONE. At least FOUR people were involved in my brothers death.

Even though these characters have form, the main culprit is now doing a 'lot of time' for another unrelated offence,
( which landed him wit a sentence of over 5 years imprisonment).

Some form of armed robbery, apparently, he committed. In other words, this guy is way off the 'civilised person meter'.

And my point is, to cyclone ?

i really don't see what your point is at all.
As the evil Dr just said, the report that you brought up is only tenously related to the issue you want to talk about. You'd have been better of talking about that issue rather than the report.
But since this thread is about the report, your issue is not relevant.

Let me explain for you again, slowly. This is not about not prosecuting drug users. It's about not sending the police around when an ambulance is called for a suspected overdose.

The point being, that if the police are also sent, no one will ever call in the first place.
There is more chance of the ambulance being called and someones life being saved if the police do not automatically attend when an ambulance is required for an overdose.

Seems like I have to spell it out to some.

My brother was diagnosed as PTSD after suffering from his 'tours of duty' in Ulster in the 1970's.

Afterwards, he always needed a 'crutch', which was alcohol, because of his mental illness . The MOD left him, and many others in the UK to fend for themselves. A huge percentage of UK homeless are ex-forces people. This should be a cause for concern, but it isn't.

Only the Parachute Regiment seem interested and have overnight sleepouts on the Embankment in London, especially on the eve of Remembrance Sunday for the UK homeless. They have now started a 24 hour helpline and donate mobile phones to the ex-forces homeless, so if they need help, they can contact ex-paras.

http://www.expara.co.uk/

Too many are interested only in 'foreign' tragedies,especially the Mass media, as if we don't have povery and despair in this country.

We are very glad to see that an ex- soldier has received over £600, 000 + as the MOD has never helped ex-forces after their leaving the ranks.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1101169

The point I am making is.............the police do NOT treat any so called 'drug deaths' as a matter of any priority nor investigation.

I am ex-forces too, and I can tell you that injecting someone with excessive amounts of heroin is the way to murder someone in Sheffield. It's dead easy.

Don't try and tell me what you think the police will do as a result of a newspaper story. We can tell you FACT. They, the Police, do nothing.

So unless you are a mercenary/careerist police officer, your side has no merits.

I am telling you what is really happening in Sheffield.

None of my family currently live in 'Sheff', so why should we give a 'stuff' about the Police there ?

You are the people that live there, and if you don't accept a friendly warning/heads-up, then please live in ignorance. We won't suffer as a result of YOUR Police force.

The only reason we are bothered is because, we do not want any other family to suffer what we have. Take it or leave it, but don't talk about what you don't know about.


p.s To the evil Doctor, one of the very senior police officers told us that doing this will not make these 'lowlifes' call for help. They are only interested in protecting their own sorry arse and getting their next fix/ money.This officer served for over 25 years in Sheffield. That report was via a Detective Constable. DC's have trouble walking off pavements without help !

Originally posted by petebarker
the police do NOT treat any so called 'drug deaths' as a matter of any priority nor investigation

I understand your point, the problem is that it has nothing to do with the article you started the whole thread with.

The article is not about how the police will treat such deaths. It's about whether they will by procedure attend along with ambulance crews to suspected overdoses.

The theory being that if they do, then druggies will never call an ambulance for fear of being prosecuted, if they do not then they will call an ambulance and an overdose victim may be saved.

If you still don't get it then I suggest we give up as I already see what your point is, but think you used the wrong article to start a thread on your point.

Pete, I sympathise with you and your family, I really do. But, either the article you raised in your first post - or what the SY police are telling you is misleading.

The article states they are trying to save lives, but you say the SY police have told you (and your family) that this isn't the case?

If SY police are saying that this move will in-fact not save any lives then why are they doing it?

I agree with the article if the article is to be believed. If, by the police not responding to calls for an ambulance to an OD will encourage more people to phone for an ambulance then the move is a positive one. However, I would still expect an subsequent death by OD to be investigated. The article doesn't really make clear that this will happen, it only states 'in suspicious curcumstances'.

Maybe - and i'm not trying to put words in your mouth here - that is the aspect of the article that you take issue with?

I know from personal experience that when a loved one is killed, the injustices of that are very difficult for us to come to terms with. Nothing can bring them back and sometimes, for our own sanity, we need to let go.

thats sickening

Originally posted by Sempta311
thats sickening

what exactly?

Its a pity this thread didnt get put put in the boot of the Red Subaru (another biblically long thread) and sent to Chester, this thread is nearly as long running as Big Brother.

I wonder if it will still be going after I return off my holidays at the end of August . ??

Drugs is a major and growing problem.

I used to teach at a College near to Moss Side, Manchester, as well as in Oldham, so know a little about tough areas of the Country.

I told the Sheff police that drugs will be an even bigger problem in the future, that was in 2001. Oh no they said !

I wouldn't put much faith in these characters, your local Police at West Barr.


Apparently, my brother had no justice when alive, and he will have none when he is dead, according to Sheff Police. My brother was robbed and beaten by known druggies and prostitutes, even in his own home, according to his neighbours, who reported the assaults to the police. He was threatened with death, and five days later he is found dead.

We are taking appropriate action to take the case further in 'other areas'. Spoken with the SHEFFIELD STAR reporters today to keep them up to date. The SHEFFIELD STAR have been our only friends in this tragedy.

The Sheff police are not over enamoured with the stories in the SHEFFIELD STAR regarding my late brother over the months and years. I think they are more interested in saving the pension of a Detective Sergeant, who has muddled through for over 24 years in Sheffield, and is totally inept, than to nail criminals who have committed and are still committing very serious offences.


The Police Complaints Dept at Sheffield are to do NOTHING as a result of their 'investigation'. Local drug dealers in Broomhall will be laughing.




Hello HELS you have put your finger on the issue correctly;



"However, I would still expect an subsequent death by OD to be investigated. The article doesn't really make clear that this will happen, it only states 'in suspicious curcumstances'.

Maybe - and i'm not trying to put words in your mouth here - that is the aspect of the article that you take issue with?"

We had a letter today from a Mr. FRED JUKES, Head of the Criminal Justice Unit, at 32,Scotland Street in Sheffield.


Apparently it is Private &Confidential. Why ? More stuff is in the SHEFFIELD STAR than in this post, or in the letter. I think it is just to petrify us, as a family. It is not going to work. On the contrary in fact.


We are taking the case away from Sheffield, and the South Yorkshire police. We trust South Yorkshire police not at all.

Mr. Jukes is way behind even the Coroners Court Inquest, he should get the facts right before writing. He should do his homework. Still he must be on what, £2,000 + a week ?


Not bad wage that is it ?

I wouldn't 'rock the boat' either if I was 'in the pay'.


The police did nothing, and made no steps to find any evidence of possible wrongdoing against my late brother. The CORONER, Mr.Chris Dorries, even showed the total lack of Police investigation in the Inquest, in 'Open Court'.


The Police thought my late brother was a 'good for nothing druggie' and left it at that. The truth is, he was nothing of the sort.

The police thought he had no family. They thought the cheapest thing would be to just do nothing and it would all go away.

WRONG again Mr. Plod !

My late brother was known as having mental problems. Problems he incurred, as a result of his serving in Ulster many times in the 1970's with the 2nd Royal Regiment of Fusiliers of the British Army. He suffered what we now know as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/PTSD, or as they called it in World War One, 'shellshock'. He was awarded a WAR PENSION posthumously by the Ministry of Defence in early 2001. My brother was known by many other ex-service people in his home town Rochdale, Lancashire. They knew of his mental problems from his Ulster service. They treated him as an hero here. Looks like he was treated as **** in South Yorkshire.


Hey and get this !

We got awarded 'backpay from his being diagnosed . It amounted to about £5,000. As my brother Chris died on the 29th.June 2001, they asked for that amount back ? Even though we had to pay for his funeral etc. Thankfully Rochdale ROYAL BRITISH LEGION members were going to kick up a fuss. My late brother suffered, and fought the 'Ulster conflict' for over 25 years in his mind. He even thought he had served in the Falklands conflict, due to his 'illness'. No wonder his marriage and personal relationships broke down.


Just how many have suffered as we, in just Sheffield alone ?



I have asked for the help of the Sheffield Royal British Legion in the past in this thread.


We know that these 'scumbags' who were directly involved in my brothers murder , were involved in the murder/suspicious death, of a nightclub manager of the NICHE club in Sheffield, over 4 years ago. We told the Police this, and guess what ?


Nothing !

Sleep safe Sheffield people.

I would have a shotgun or something similar, if I lived there in your area.


Your police will probably be sleeping themselves.


Oh, and according to the SHEFFIELD STAR, this sort of thing is happening every 11 days ! No less than 33 deaths reported in Sheffield alone, in this manner, last year.



This is giving the drug dealers in Sheffield a license to kill.

[MOD NOTE]This thread is becoming increasingly circular, pointless and off topic. It will remain open untill tomorrow ( 19/8 ) for comment and will then be closed.

in my experience ( in the nhs 20 years)
generally drug addicts do use the system (nhs) much more and in some ways more effectively than others

however it is important to recognise that these people live life "on the edge" as it were, and often make dangerous life choices including not using medical help ......

Seriously though, this thread doesn't really have anything to do with the article you referenced, does it Pete? More about your own personal misgivings on the police force.

By all means, have them, but if they're valid, why do you need to reference a completely irrelevent article in order to start ranting?

Neil is right, this thread is a mess.