Apparently kids who misbehave at school and get excluded etc seem to get took Ice skating, Caving, Canoeing and god knows what else. Is this anyway to deal with these kids? will it stop them from been naughty? I personally think it's a ridiculas idea.

i was in the gifted and talented cohort in school (ie. top 10% of the city) and i got nothing :evil:

Seems to be the way these days, it does'nt pay to be good, preferential treatment for those who who can't behave etc ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bring back the Smack !!!!!

:roll: Your view on kids being out of control when i was a lad we use to go footy in the park or youth club now they seem to hang about on street corners putting bus windows through its about time that the Police started nicking the childs parents they should be held to account for there child they should have a curfew for children in the house by 21.00 every night
if not something should be done my lads was in the house by 21.00

thanks tony

I agree. I am only 21, but children these days seem much more badly behaved and impolite than they were even when I was at school. I blame too many single parents (not that all single parents are bad, before anyone complains).

Get the full facts first.My child is one of those CHILDREN WHO MISBEHAVE AT SCHOOL . Actually she has behavioural and emotional problems. Its not her fault and its not mine either. She is not excluded from school. The B I P S project aims to prevent children with problems from getting permanantly excluded. Yes they go caving and canoeing etc, but these are team building exercises. They do their national curriculum work too and therepeutic work to try to find out why they behave the way they do. Good behaviour is rewarded but bad behaviour is punished. If just one of the children on the project is helped and is stopped from turning to a life of crime then the project will have been worth it. ps Parents can no longer smack their children for fear of repercussions so what do you suggest we do?

Originally posted by "mslotus"

Get the full facts first.My child is one of those CHILDREN WHO MISBEHAVE AT SCHOOL . Actually she has behavioural and emotional problems. Its not her fault and its not mine either. She is not excluded from school. The B I P S project aims to prevent children with problems from getting permanantly excluded. Yes they go caving and canoeing etc, but these are team building exercises. They do their national curriculum work too and therepeutic work to try to find out why they behave the way they do. Good behaviour is rewarded but bad behaviour is punished. If just one of the children on the project is helped and is stopped from turning to a life of crime then the project will have been worth it. ps Parents can no longer smack their children for fear of repercussions so what do you suggest we do?

I do have the full facts. A relative of mine is one of these naughty children along with a few others. All of a sudden she seems very keen to attend school after months of truanting. I found out the reason why is because she is doing all of the activites I mentioned before. I am not having a dig at any parents I am asking the question is this the right thing to do? Personally I can't see it making a damn bit of differnce only probably making matters worse. If your child has behavious problems then they are an exception to the rule but you can't honestly say that all of these kids have those problems, can you?

I think that overall the school system has gone stupid. I left school in 1994 a year previously a frequent pain in the butt from my class started a fight. When a teacher intervened he punched him aswell.

Off he went as usual to the head teachers office - and was asked why he did, offered a cup of tea and biscuit followed by absolutely nothing. He couldn't believe it either and hit another teacher the following day. Strangely (or not) said headteacher hails from Sheffield.

My brother was a bad kid. Grew up in a hell hole council estate and because the school expected the kids to misbehave the fact he had HADD was left undiagnosed until he was 13!!!!

Are the activities there to get these truants interested in school again? Probably, but what about the pitfalls of bribing children with the wrong things. What happens when funding dries up and the school cannot offer them all these trips?? They will be back on the streets again. What about the schools that cannot offer this sort of thing due to no funding in the first place?? How do you put 95% of the school through a programme like that?

ps Parents can no longer smack their children for fear of repercussions so what do you suggest we do?
As far I knew that was overuled in the house of commons. Commons+ common sense??? Certain issues fall out of that I am sure but that one was not.

Half of these kids need a good kick up the rear end as do their parents.
If they had taught them a little respect in the first place they may not have the problem. And no cracking your kids is not what I am talking about when I say "teaching them respect".

Moon Maiden

Here Here,
These arrogant, ignorant, unbearable young thugs should be given the cat a nine tails as they used to have, they only understand pain to behave better, everyone else has to conform why shouldn't they!!!

Instead of giving them luxury holidays, they should have punishment along with their whining parent's who have a marvellous excuse to escape their responsibilities by quoteing the law.

These minor's ought to have been given guidance by their parent's from being babies, this is where discipline should start, it is nothing but a cop out. :( :( :(

So I am a whining parent who needs a kick up the rear end am I? Well I have news for you. I could have given up on my daughter a long time ago and let the tax payer foot the bill by having her looked after in foster care but I did not. I am not a quitter and I am not soft . I am a strict caring parent who has tried everything concievable to straighten my daughter out. As a result my health has suffered and my son has suffered too. I resent pompous know it alls telling me its my fault that my daughter misbehaves and that she is not disciplined enough. SHE GETS DISCIPLINE. I'd like to see any of you do a better job. Its so easy for you to use the excuse of single parents. Yes I am a single parent but that has nothing to do with it. My son is 20 and completely different to my daughter. He sat and passed 8 GCSE's and then spent 3 years at college while working part time and helping to look after me as I am disabled with arthritis. He now works full time and is planning on going to university later in the year. He is a loving, kind, tolerant and considerate young man. As for the project that certain people seem to know so much about. It is not indefinite. It lasts for 6 weeks and is not an easy ride. The young people on it will be facing themselves maybe for the first time in their lives and possibly looking at issues that they would rather not face. Some of them may have been abused. The project is about helping them to discover why they have the problems they have and finding ways of illiminating disruptive behaviour. As well as the fun things they have done an army assault course. Believe me it was tough and not at all enjoyable. Central government has provided the money to pay for it and it is a nationwide pilot scheme. As for you moonmaiden. If you have a brother with ADHD then you should understand the difficulties of coping with a child with problems.

As for you moonmaiden. If you have a brother with ADHD then you should understand the difficulties of coping with a child with problems.

I just love people who don't read posts! Try going back and doing so mslotus.

If my eyes do not decieve me Lickzz actually commented on the fact your daughter would be an exception due to her medical problems.

If your child has behavious problems then they are an exception to the rule but you can't honestly say that all of these kids have those problems, can you? is what Lickzz wrote.

And just where did I direct my comments at you??? I thought this thread was a discussion about naughty school kids, perhaps I was wrong and you set it up so people could have a go for no aparent reason?? :roll: :roll:

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "mslotus"

Get the full facts first.My child is one of those CHILDREN WHO MISBEHAVE AT SCHOOL . Actually she has behavioural and emotional problems. Its not her fault and its not mine either. She is not excluded from school. The B I P S project aims to prevent children with problems from getting permanantly excluded. Yes they go caving and canoeing etc, but these are team building exercises. They do their national curriculum work too and therepeutic work to try to find out why they behave the way they do. Good behaviour is rewarded but bad behaviour is punished. If just one of the children on the project is helped and is stopped from turning to a life of crime then the project will have been worth it. ps Parents can no longer smack their children for fear of repercussions so what do you suggest we do?

Well done for speaking out!! I didn't feel like I could because I don't feel I have enough information but I certainly agree with you. I have a friend who is in the scheme and it's working well for her.

Concerning all the people who are having a general rant about how the youth of today is out of control, I think you need to go out and see what is actually happening in the world. Don't just listen to the news because that only focuses on the bad aspects of youth culture. Go into your community and take a look at a wide variety of young people, not just a few who may be causing you to have a bad impression of the entire generation.

I hope you'll see that we're not all one evil, misbehaving group. We are all individuals - some good, some bad - who should be treated as individuals. Don't generalise so readily.

Thanks,

:D Mark :D

Originally posted by "halevan"

Here Here,
These arrogant, ignorant, unbearable young thugs should be given the cat a nine tails as they used to have, they only understand pain to behave better, everyone else has to conform why shouldn't they!!!

Instead of giving them luxury holidays, they should have punishment along with their whining parent's who have a marvellous excuse to escape their responsibilities by quoteing the law.

These minor's ought to have been given guidance by their parent's from being babies, this is where discipline should start, it is nothing but a cop out. :( :( :(

It seems to me like you are the 'arrogant, ignorant, unbearable' person here. We're in a new era now, where we don't need violence and threats of physical punnishment to behave. Infact, that would probably cause more misbehaving as we would not tolerate it. It would be going against our human rights to be abused in this way.

You are obviously from a different generation and don't understand the modern world as well as the rest of us, but I don't feel that we need to resort to corperal punnishment.

Mark

Originally posted by "Markellis"

Here Here,
These arrogant, ignorant, unbearable young thugs should be given the cat a nine tails as they used to have, they only understand pain to behave better, everyone else has to conform why shouldn't they!!!

Instead of giving them luxury holidays, they should have punishment along with their whining parent's who have a marvellous excuse to escape their responsibilities by quoteing the law.

These minor's ought to have been given guidance by their parent's from being babies, this is where discipline should start, it is nothing but a cop out. :( :( :(

It seems to me like you are the 'arrogant, ignorant, unbearable' person here. We're in a new era now, where we don't need violence and threats of physical punnishment to behave. Infact, that would probably cause more misbehaving as we would not tolerate it. It would be going against our human rights to be abused in this way.

You are obviously from a different generation and don't understand the modern world as well as the rest of us, but I don't feel that we need to resort to corperal punnishment.

Mark

He may be from a different generation but he is from a genration that never had any of the problems that we have today. You obviously have not mixed with enough people of this generation often enough to find out what it was really like. Have you ever heard the stories about leaving your door unlocked and nothing would happen? do you think they had any of the horrible street crime back in those days that we have now?

What do you suggest we do then Mr Ellis? I want to hear how you are going to stop kids from back chatting, cheeking and not respecting their elders and adults such as teachers. I want to hear how you are going to stop kids from telling teachers to f off and attacking them and doing as they damn well please.

Markellis wrote :
You are obviously from a different generation and don't understand the modern world as well as the rest of us, but I don't feel that we need to resort to corperal punnishment.

There are different generations Mark, and they are entitled to their opinion as are you. What's this about not understanding the modern world 'like the rest of us'. ?
You and your generation do not represent 'the rest of us', remember that !
In support of halevan, he generalised in his post and did not make it personal like you did in your response (and some of your others) !
I think maybe you 'don't understand the modern world' so well yourself !

Concerning all the people who are having a general rant about how the youth of today is out of control, I think you need to go out and see what is actually happening in the world. Don't just listen to the news because that only focuses on the bad aspects of youth culture. Go into your community and take a look at a wide variety of young people, not just a few who may be causing you to have a bad impression of the entire generation.

I hope you'll see that we're not all one evil, misbehaving group. We are all individuals - some good, some bad - who should be treated as individuals. Don't generalise so readily.



Hi there Mark

Perhaps you should take a leaf from your own book and NOT "generalise so readily".

I agree with Hal on his general opions on the behavourial problems of most children. I am not of his generation I am 25 and am mother to 4 kids ages ranging from 2 to 14.

I have worked in Youth clubs and social teams throughout South Yorkshire both in the more afluent areas and those that are deemed 'bad'.

So please don't lecture on looking outside my front door.

Perhaps you are one of these kids who will stand up for an adult and tell off kids of your age when they hurl obcenity after obcenity, simply because they were asked not to throw rubbish on the floor or attempt to damage property - or simply keep the noise down as there was a child sleeping.

And who said anything about tarring everyone with the same brush?? The WHOLE thread is about the section of youth that misbehaves and causes problems for the rest of you - surely you should be adding more positive comments to the conversation rather than resorting to a slanging match with someone who should have your respect and not disdain.

Moon Maiden

YOU ARE JUST A MAN WHO THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL THAT WAS MY MUM WHO SAID THAT ABOUT NAUGHTY SCHOOL CHILDREN AND I GOT AS MUCH PUNISHMENT AS THE NEXT KID. NOT ONCE DID MY MUM RAISE A FIST TO ME BUT THATS NOT THE POINT IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG I GOT MY PUNISHMENT BUT WHAT YOU DONT SEE IS THAT ITS NOT THE PARENTS FAULT IN MY SITUATION I THOUGHT I KNEW BEST BUT IT TURNED OUT I DIDNT AND THATS WHY I AM IN A SPECIAL SCHOOL AND THAT IS NOT MY MUMS FAULT MY MUM HAS TAUGHT ME WELL AND I AM PROUD OF HER FOR THE JOB SHE HAS DONE.

Originally posted by LUCIFER109
YOU ARE JUST A MAN WHO THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL THAT WAS MY MUM WHO SAID THAT ABOUT NAUGHTY SCHOOL CHILDREN AND I GOT AS MUCH PUNISHMENT AS THE NEXT KID. NOT ONCE DID MY MUM RAISE A FIST TO ME BUT THATS NOT THE POINT IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG I GOT MY PUNISHMENT BUT WHAT YOU DONT SEE IS THAT ITS NOT THE PARENTS FAULT IN MY SITUATION I THOUGHT I KNEW BEST BUT IT TURNED OUT I DIDNT AND THATS WHY I AM IN A SPECIAL SCHOOL AND THAT IS NOT MY MUMS FAULT MY MUM HAS TAUGHT ME WELL AND I AM PROUD OF HER FOR THE JOB SHE HAS DONE. well said, i also agree that its not ALWAYS the parents fault,its only the boy/girl that can stop themselves from causing damage or giving abuse to people
ive heard lots of reasons why kids do it from so called proffesionals,they watch to much tv,theres to much sex and violence on tv,they play violent sp2/xbox games,its all down to the music they listen to,to many violent dvd,s and videos etc.etc.etc.

rubbish,its down to the child knowing right from wrong.
and i think if your proud of your mum for what shes done for you, then you arnt half bad.( have you told her )

Originally posted by halevan

Instead of giving them luxury holidays, they should have punishment along with their whining parent's who have a marvellous excuse to escape their responsibilities by quoteing the law.

These minor's ought to have been given guidance by their parent's from being babies, this is where discipline should start, it is nothing but a cop out. :( :( :(

Personally, I'd like to implement a corporal punishment plan for people who can't use apostrophes properly rather than concentrating on beating children, but maybe that's just me ;)

Interesting reading forumers! I'm an 'older' person (but not by any means 'old') and I remember well my school days. I hated the comp. I 'skived off school' and wasn't the best behaved, but neither was I the worst behaved.

I was at school when the cane was still used, fortunately I never had to endure that ordeal. Some of my mates did and it didn't seem to have any impact really.

We were probably seen as the 'rude, ignorant' young people of our generation, though i don't think we were at all 'bad'.

Most of my mates got good jobs and are now 'solid' citizens - they have matured.

I see lots of young people locally, I walk past groups of them when I go for the bus. Mostly they are bored, fed up and have nowhere to go and hang out. They are no different to I was. Of course I don't like to hear the bad language but they are in a group and are usually showing off. I usually say hello and more often than not they say hello back. I've never had any problems with them and more often than not i've heard one or two of them telling the others off for saying things when adults are present. Most of them I have seen are still quite respectful of older people and young children. They have good in them, but they are going through the same struggles we went through as kids, that stage of being no longer a child, but also not an adult is always difficult and always will be.

Maybe i'm fortunate in that i've not come across the 'thugs' that other people talk about - or maybe because I speak to them they don't act like thugs in front of me?

There's good and bad in every generation and in every society. Sometimes taking kids who are in danger of being permanently excluded on some activities to help them get an insight into their own strengths and weaknesses is all that is needed to get them on the straight and narrow. When a young person has real difficulties ADHD or whatever, then yes they need extra attention - from adults, peers, teachers and parents. I do think it is a shame that the average young person and talented young person does not get more rewards for their good behaviour - they should also get the opportunity to experience the team building skills etc as it is a quality helpful to everyone in later life.

Rant over, perhaps we should all be a bit more tolerant of other people and not tar everyone with the same brush?!

Ok, I have to add my two penneth here,

I'm 17 and, I'm afraid to say I'm pretty embarassed about the kind of people around who are my age.

Mark, I agree with you as far as we're not all bad, but as someone else said, they weren't saying that, they were simply talking about the ones that do misbehave.

As for the whole parent/medical condition issue. You HAVE to be tolerant and understanding.
There are some kids who have been dragged up and it is the parents' fault as far as I'm concerned, but there are kids who no matter how hard the parents try, do need specialist help.

And, I'm only 17 and I know that there's no parenting handbook! People are only human and sometimes you don't know what to do for the best.

As far as this extra treatment goes, I think people haven't quite got their facts straight - it sounds like a good idea to me. Don't get me wrong, there's times when I've been sat in class (times like when a kid in our class who was a terror and incidentally one that had been dragged up, wrapped selotape around my best mates head and ripped it off) and thought, 'bring back the cane!' So I'm not one of these modern kids who say, 'no violence'.

My sister went off the rails and my parents didn't know what to do, I was never a typical teenager, I always listened to my parents, I was in hospital a lot so I had to grow up pretty quick, and I sort of missed the rebellious stage, but my sister didn't. And my parents felt helpless, she was always out, I was extremely bitter I have to say because she has had friends round on 'school nights' which I was never allowed. But the last thing was they let her have her lip pierced if she let the whole thing about stretching her ear lobes go. Well, this only happened over about a month. And although she's still her own person, and is still a typical teenager, she's learning respect for my parents as they let her do things in return for her doing things for them. Etc. etc.

Mslotus, I'll send you a pm about something I wanted to write here because I think I'll be hung drawn and quartered if I do write it on here. But I sympathise with you.

There was a kid in our school who always got what he wanted from his parents, they never disciplined him, he was an evil little git, (and I did know him outside of school so I'm not being biased) who came to school and when my best mate started going out with his best mate he got jealous. He bullied her constantly for the two years she went out with his mate and even for a year or so aftr that, thankfully he would never have continued to do A levels so I know she's ok there without him (I continued to go to college and left her at 6th form). But he bullied her mentally and physically, reducing her to a breakdown where I had to literally hold her back otherwise she would have tried her best to have killed him. But he never got suspended, not even a detention directly from hurting her. Why? Because when the school notified his parents they said 'it's not his fault he's dyslexic' sorry but, i thought dyslexia was a problem with reading and writing, maybe maths, not sure. My cousin has it very badly and he never had behavioural problems come of it.
The truth of the matter was, his parents were old and scared of him.

I can see where you're coming from, with the whole 'why treat them?' thing but I can also see where Mslotus is coming from. Perhaps you're just not completely clear on what it is.

And, no, I don't know which is the best way to deal with misbehaving kids in general, because each person is different, some need this special program, others need a good smack, others need to somehow be taught respect for their elders (oh listen at me! I am really only 17!)

I think there's probably something I've forgotten to add, but I'll be back if there is!

Lottie

Extremely well said Monroe! :clap:

I think that was put clearly (much clearer than mine) and honestly. Well done.

It is probably that you speak to them as human beings so they have respect for you, however, as much as some people just don't respect them so don't deserve any respect back, some people are genuinely afraid.
You do hear so much bad about things that when you're on your way back from somewhere alone and it can be just 4pm sometimes earlier in the winter when it gets dark and you walk past a group of 7 foot tall lads wearing hoods, it can be VERY scary!

In response to the 'I'm in the gifted and talented and never get any rewards' I'm not sure why because the whole point is you do.
I'm in gifted and talented French and have been to France for a competition that I was entered into and won from the gifted and talented, I've also recently been to the university to do a day's French there. So you need to get on to your school/college if you are in gifted and talented and get them to do something.
I've also been entered for 'college colours' for helping others and will be going on a trip to London, £100 is being allocated to each student for an overnight stop to go and do stuff in London (not that I think £100 will go far - but I didn't expect anything so no probs!)
And, finally, I got an 'outstanding acheivement award' at my GCSE certificate award ceremony.

So I think, gifted and talented do get rewarded too.

lottie

THANKS 4 THAT AT LEAST SOMEONE IS LISTENING AND BOUT THE THING OF TELLING MY MUM I TELL HER ALL THE TIME EVERYONE SHOULD TELL THERE MUM HOW THEY FEEL

I GOT EXCLUDED FROM SCHOOL A COUPLE OF TIMES (WHICH I REGRET) BUT THESE ACTIVITIES AND THINGS DO HELP WITH THE BEHAVIOUR MAYBE NOT 4 EVERY CHILD BUT FOR KIDS WHO DO WANT TO TURN AROUND THEN ITS A GOOD START CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG!!

Originally posted by Lickszz
Apparently kids who misbehave at school and get excluded etc seem to get took Ice skating, Caving, Canoeing and god knows what else. Is this anyway to deal with these kids? will it stop them from been naughty? I personally think it's a ridiculas idea.

I've worked on numerous social regeneration schemes. One in particular the Neighbourhood Renewal Fund gave money to projects that took kids whoes behaviour was so deplorable they'd been kicked out of school to Flamingo Land and other such places because they 'got something from it'. I found the whole idea quite sickening. I'd love to take my daughter to places like that but because I pay so much tax sending expelled kids there I can't afford to take her.

Another girl was kicked out of school for beating people up, she ended up in a youth project which recieved so much money that they all went scuba diving in the Red Sea and visited the pyramids. During the evaluation of the project I was carrying out I asked her what she thought about seeing the pyramids. All she could say was that "the bus were right hot like, I didn't like it"

What a waste of money. If you go around beating people up, ruining other people's education you get a free trip to the only remaining wonder of the ancient world. What sort of message does that send out.

I could go on and on rhapsodising about unfairness in the council<

What sort of lesson does this present to the good children.
Does it say behave badly and you will get rewarded.
Stay good and well behaved and you get nothing.!

hazel