what is lacking with New Zealand and Englands teams are the Ozzies too good or are our teams missing something.
Is it the players or the coaches,maybe more incentives needed,bigger pay packet,championship bonus?

what is lacking with New Zealand and Englands teams are the Ozzies too good or are our teams missing something.
Is it the players or the coaches,maybe more incentives needed,bigger pay packet,championship bonus?

i dont think australia are much better at the minute to be honest, theyve lost a large part of their squad, warne, magrath, hayden, langer, gilchrist.

i think we miht possibly have a better squad, weve got a great chance of recapturing the ashes, our big players need to step up to the plate, i dont understand all the hype behind flintoff, what has he done since the ashes victory? nothing. Players like bell, strauss, cook and anderson are going to be vital for the success, i wish vaughan was still captain, hes a quality player, just went through a bad run of form with the bat, like every batsmen

Before christmas when they lost at home to South Africa, they seemed in meltdown and a win in the West Indies would have put us on the front foot.

Now though we seem to be self doubting again.

Don't assume that just because warne, magrath, hayden, langer, gilchrist have gone they will bring over a load of numpties.

For many it will be a first time ashes series, not wanting to lose & return without them, etc etc.

Whoever they bring will give us a good game

Before christmas when they lost at home to South Africa, they seemed in meltdown and a win in the West Indies would have put us on the front foot.

Now though we seem to be self doubting again.

Don't assume that just because warne, magrath, hayden, langer, gilchrist have gone they will bring over a load of numpties.

For many it will be a first time ashes series, not wanting to lose & return without them, etc etc.

Whoever they bring will give us a good game

we did well against west indies, other than the first test, batted extremely well and bowled very well, but west indies shut up shop and defended very well. i never said they would be a rubbish side i just said weve got a good chance, weve got loads of competition for players now, that will make the players even hungrier to do well, we have vaughan, bell, bopara, shah competing for a 3rd bat spot, and now we have the new bowlers, onions etc breaking into the england setup, panesar cant even get in the side, we are capable of beating australia.

I don't think we can unfortunately.

I think we will be lucky to keep it close.

The batsmen don't score enough runs and the bowlers struggle to bowl the really top teams out twice.

The West Indies don't really seem like they want to be here at the moment so I don't think we can read too much into the current series.

Yes we can beat tem easil Sharon, Ozzie and the kids don't even knoe how to hold a bat never mind use one.

The Aussies need time to develop their new sqaud. I think this year will be the training year and blooding new players.

I still hope they do well - altough living over here has taken all the fun out of the game for me.

In my point of view we should attack australia instead of defensive and i think this is a better way to win the series.At the moment i dont think australia have a strong team when compared to previous series.

...At the moment i dont think australia have a strong team when compared to previous series.

| remember someone saying that exactly 20 years ago; just before Border's lot wiped the floor with us.

Never write them off or underestimate their competitive edge, especuially when faced with adversity.

weve got a really strong squad at the moment, weve got something we havent had in a while and thats strong competition for places, weve got shah, bell (who has scored loads of 1st class runs this year) and bopara all wanting the number3 position. we have a strong batting line up with still flintoff to come in.

we also have a really strong bowling attack, anderson is quality along with broad who can also bat, flintoff to come back in, swann who for me is our best spinner etc

we will beat the ausies only if they are oncrutches--sorry we dont win owt

All depends on the squad selection and who is fit to play this summer. We need Flintoff back and fully fit. Is the bowlers Jones back up and running? Would like to see Vaughan have a better summer with the bat and press for a test recall

England have a chance but would have to play to our fullest potential but I expect the Ozzies to squeak it

Beat the ozzies - after that performance tonight v Holland, talk of the Ashes is a bit premature. We didn't play well, but by god Holland deserved that. Sunday v Pakistan is massive, win or thats it.

Beat the ozzies - after that performance tonight v Holland, talk of the Ashes is a bit premature. We didn't play well, but by god Holland deserved that. Sunday v Pakistan is massive, win or thats it.

england have never been strong in the short version of the game, test cricket is a completely different game, agree though, tonight's game was dreadful, the last couple of overs are supposed to be all guns blazing, we had wickets in hand and we still didnt go for it.

| remember someone saying that exactly 20 years ago; just before Border's lot wiped the floor with us.

Never write them off or underestimate their competitive edge, especuially when faced with adversity.

I utterly agree with that. England regained the Ashes on the back of a motivated side who won two very close Tests.Australia thought they'd won it before a ball was bowled, and on aggregate could feel hard done by. That said, they didn't turn up.

That may be a harsh reflection of the wondrous return of Little Urn, but in reality, I think it's true, as the total destruction away showed.* People forget that the opening Test at Lord's (where it should be, not bloody Sophia Gardens) of the 2003 series was a rollercoaster, and we eventually got battered, and we really were lucky to get Little 'Urn back.

Victories by one wicket, and two runs? And a gritty performance for them to get a draw, and the light to do us a favour.

Make no mistake, there will be trouble ahead ......

*The second day of the Second Test was crucial. We'll always lose in Brisbane, but we had got to a position in Adelaide. Then it went wrong. After that, it was always going to be carnage.

weve got a really strong squad at the moment, weve got something we havent had in a while and thats strong competition for places, weve got shah, bell (who has scored loads of 1st class runs this year) and bopara all wanting the number3 position. we have a strong batting line up with still flintoff to come in.

we also have a really strong bowling attack, anderson is quality along with broad who can also bat, flintoff to come back in, swann who for me is our best spinner etc

flintoff should come in as a bowler that can bat a bit, he hasn't produced a performance with the bat for ages

*The second day of the Second Test was crucial. We'll always lose in Brisbane, but we had got to a position in Adelaide. Then it went wrong. After that, it was always going to be carnage.
medionman Re: Cricket can we beat the Ozzies
we will beat the ausies only if they are oncrutches--sorry we dont win owt

Still hurting after the last drubbing you blokes got well that's fantastic:hihi:.
Personally I'd reckon what happened 2 years ago and 4 years ago are of little consequence now. Lucky for England you lot aren't playing for em coz ya beat before ya start. Thats are good way to set yourself up to be a loser. I guess you've had too much practice at it. At least sound positive. I could quote back all of you're negative comments it would wear out my fingerprints. Harden up it's suposed to be a Test. We want to beat the poms at everything not just cricket. It's breed into us and goes back to colonial days. Every chance we get, it's give it to the poms. Doesn't matter if it is curling or polo!

Bring on the Ashes!


Five Nil, Five nil, sorry I could resist :D

I think we'll do it.

I don’t think our team is as good as it was in 2005 but neither are the aussies.

I can see it being 2-1 to us.

Whatever happen's it's sure to be good

medionman Re: Cricket can we beat the Ozzies
we will beat the ausies only if they are oncrutches--sorry we dont win owt

Still hurting after the last drubbing you blokes got well that's fantastic:hihi:.
Personally I'd reckon what happened 2 years ago and 4 years ago are of little consequence now. Lucky for England you lot aren't playing for em coz ya beat before ya start. Thats are good way to set yourself up to be a loser. I guess you've had too much practice at it. At least sound positive. I could quote back all of you're negative comments it would wear out my fingerprints. Harden up it's suposed to be a Test. We want to beat the poms at everything not just cricket. It's breed into us and goes back to colonial days. Every chance we get, it's give it to the poms. Doesn't matter if it is curling or polo!

Bring on the Ashes!


Five Nil, Five nil, sorry I could resist :D

Oooooh, a gnat to swat!

Seriously though, we had the worst preparation before the 'forgotten series' as Warne keeps on telling us it was. To be fair, England had got to a good position to take the Second Test last time round, and had we not capitulated, that series could have been a lot different.

Freddie was as bad a captaincy choice as Beefy was nearly thirty years ago. Nearly thirty years ......

There has been a lot of 'shifting responsibility' between the cricket codes which makes me think we'll be OK against you boys, and also Symonds seems too, er, 'relaxed' to play in any form of cricket, which is a bonus for us.

What do you lot think about the disgrace of an Ashes Series not starting at Lord's? It hasn't gone down well over here, even though we need to have the game put around the country.

Is you new big hitting youngster over here too?

I look forward to some decent banter, my friend!

Oooooh, a gnat to swat!



Freddie was as bad a captaincy choice as Beefy was nearly thirty years ago. Nearly thirty years ......

There has been a lot of 'shifting responsibility' between the cricket codes which makes me think we'll be OK against you boys, and also Symonds seems too, er, 'relaxed' to play in any form of cricket, which is a bonus for us.

What do you lot think about the disgrace of an Ashes Series not starting at Lord's? It hasn't gone down well over here, even though we need to have the game put around the country.

Is you new big hitting youngster over here too?



Pom swat at Mitchell's gnat, nicks and is caught behind still living in the past. Over here we are glad half hearted Symonds is gone. There is nothing worse than someone who wastes their talent. It's an insult to those who do put in massive effort to get in the Australian Team.

Pom swat at Mitchell's gnat, nicks and is caught behind still living in the past. Over here we are glad half hearted Symonds is gone. There is nothing worse than someone who wastes their talent. It's an insult to those who do put in massive effort to get in the Australian Team.

Ha ha! Benaud the Legend said there was no nick ;)

Living in the past? It took us 17 years to get a bloody series win.

Living in the past? Take the hours and hours of endless misery listening to Test Match Special as we lose another away series .....

I thought you might be happier without Symonds. It's a shame though, because he is a great bowler. What about you not playing at Lord's, and this new big hitter?

Ha ha! Benaud the Legend said there was no nick ;)

Living in the past? It took us 17 years to get a bloody series win.

Living in the past? Take the hours and hours of endless misery listening to Test Match Special as we lose another away series .....

I thought you might be happier without Symonds. It's a shame though, because he is a great bowler. What about you not playing at Lord's, and this new big hitter?

Symonds Test avg bowling
Bowling averages
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR
Tests 26 41 2094 896 24 3/50 5/56 37.33 2.56 87.2

The figures would suggest that he would fall into the catergory of handy stop gap to change bowler. He certainly would not hold his spot as a bowler.

Big hitter? Do you mean Phillip Hughes? A great talent who just needs to consolidate his position at opener at the moment. Certainly a great start to his Test career.

As for Lords, well we'd play you blokes on convict bricks if we had to ;) but I with you HH about maintain traditions is important (like beating the Poms:D)

Dinkum

...

Big hitter? Do you mean Phillip Hughes? A great talent who just needs to consolidate his position at opener at the moment. Certainly a great start to his Test career.


And Middlesex obligingly gave him a eight week contract at the start of the season to get used to English conditions, and the Lords' pitch!

Next week the Aussies play a four day game at Hove, and are being allowed to field twelve players, ready for the test starting two weeks later.

What will our blokes be doing, at the same time?

Playing Twenty-bloody-20 !

One bonus for us this time round, is the absence of any top class spinner in the Australian line up, judging by their performace against Sussex, a game in which Sussex's duo of Rayner and Beer, tied up an out of form Hussey and North.

Lets hope our groundsmen prepare some pitches to our advantage.

Maybe we cannot beat the Aussies, but at least we shall win the World Cup next year in football.

One bonus for us this time round, is the absence of any top class spinner in the Australian line up, judging by their performace against Sussex, a game in which Sussex's duo of Rayner and Beer, tied up an out of form Hussey and North.

......



And now Hussey is back in form ready for the test.

And now Hussey is back in form ready for the test.
Even Marcus North as well, now!

So if you are a touring side coming to England, unless you are Bangladesh or Zimbabwe the ECB will arrange an itinerary for you to get ALL of your batsmen in form ready for the first test.

See if the Aussies give us such a luxury, the next time we are due to appear in Brisbane one November!

Listening to the Ashes & wondering how much cricket will decline because youngsters cannot see it on BBC/C4. Sad.
www.birkett.yolasite.com

I really want the Aussies to give England a thrashing this time and show them that 2005 was a jammy fluke.

I'm not convinced that Australia have the depth in bowling this time but we'll see.

I'm going for 3-0 Australia

122 for 3 just after lunch

Colly and KP in playing well by all accounts.

i envisage a tough series, the Aussies come with a relatively new team and hence are labelled the underdogs by the bookies, i think it will be pretty close, but as long as Englands batsmen fill thier boots against a weak bowling line up, then i have faith that we can win the series 2-1!! Australia not having a decent spinner is a major bonus, espeically if Swanny and Monty rip thorugh them in Cardiff. Come on Colly and KP big tons needed!! I'm going to day 3 at Headingley, come on England thrash them Aussies!!!!!

I would say today is about even. I think 400 might be a good score on this pitch but we really need our bowlers to keep it tight tomorrow. KP needs a kicking for that shot. It's the first day of a test match not the last three overs of a 2020.

Despite a decent start for us, that was Australia's day. I had hoped that we might have been able to take a couple of wickets after Hughes went relatively cheaply, but it certainly wasn't to be. 189 so far from Katich and Ponting is ominous, and (from what I've seen - my Sky has been playing up since the torrential downpours of the last few days - grrrrr) neither Swann nor Monty have got anywhere near as much turn or bounce as Hauritz got in the early overs this morning.

435 was reasonable enough, especially given the collapse at the end of the first day, but unless the spinners can coax any more out of the wicket tomorrow, I fear for us. Australia could easily be looking at a first innings lead by the close of play tomorrow, and given that our batsmen are often prone to a few injudicious shots (I don't care about it hitting your helmet KP, what the hell did you think you were doing?), Australia may have a very gettable fourth innings total.

Yes, I'm being very pessimistic after a disappointing day today, but our attack looked toothless. They're only 186 behind with 9 wickets remaining. If anyone's having a flutter, and wants to avoid the obvious odds-on draw, Australia are 9/4 in general (12/5 in a couple of places) and 5/2 on Betfair, and England are 7/1 with the 'big three', 15/2 in a few places, but best at 8/1 with bet365 and sportingbet, and 19/2 on Betfair.

Lets start the rain dance

Totem poles and teepees are outside right now, and they're working. 20/2 in the second innings, and thankfully it's raining.

A major, major rethink for Lords is well in order.

As long as that rethink doesn't include Harmison.

Or Bresnan, given the likely wicket. I'm still not sure about Onions, but I think he may get a nod. I'd still like to see Foster get a stint behind the stumps as well.

Early days in the series, but Australia really look a class above at the moment. Only the weather can save them now in this game.

Dear god. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to take it if the next tests are like this.

What a fantastic end to the game. Oh how nice to see the smile wiped off the smug Mr Ponting's face. Had to laugh when he took one to the shin at close range this afternoon shame it didn't pitch a bit higher :hihi:

I'm going to enjoy the success of Anderson Rescue (though the highlight for me was Monty's four when misfielded!), before thinking about it logically.

Well its some payback for Old Trafford

Mitchell Johnson seems to be Steve Harmison in disguise.

Got out of jail free.

Now can somebody teach / remind our "top" 6 batsmen the virtue of playing straight and not chasing balls 3ft or more outside the off peg? And to take guard in front of the crease to the opening bowlers - you ain't going to get stumped and have far less chance of being lbw.

Tests are a 5 day game - not 20/20.

Got out of jail free.

Now can somebody teach / remind our "top" 6 batsmen the virtue of playing straight and not chasing balls 3ft or more outside the off peg? And to take guard in front of the crease to the opening bowlers - you ain't going to get stumped and have far less chance of being lbw.

Tests are a 5 day game - not 20/20.

But people want to see 100 runs a session and a boundary every over or they don't think they are getting their monies worth.

I am sick and ****ing tired of wickets that offer all the help to the batsman and massive scores in both test and one day cricket.

I'm trying to remember the last test match that had a decent bowling surface and I'm struggling

And this is exactly why I wondered whether 20/20 was bad for cricket. For me, albeit enhanced because I was supporting the side defending, the last three hours or so today were amazing cricket. If nothing else, watching Monty playing a controlled defensive bat was a first ;)

That said, this wicket was meant to be set up for the twin spin attack (about which I repeatedly voiced my concerns), and the only person who got much happening was Hauritz. Even Ponting said there was nothing for the bowlers, and that's when he had the upper hand with them.

To add to that, it enhances the failure of our batsmen as well. 435 looked a decent total, but nobody really kicked on, though at least everyone contributed. If I could guarantee that in every innings, I'd be cock-a-hoop. The fact is that an innings as steady as that are as rare as hens' teeth.

All eleven of our batsmen have batted twice on a benign pitch, and nobody has reached a ton. For the first time in Ashes history, four Australians have reached tons in one innings, and they nearly won when only batting once.

Who's our XI for Lords then? Try and post your selections before the squad is announced tomorrow. I'll go 'no offers' that Monty won't play on what is usually a seamer's hotbed.

What also could be interesting is the number of left handed players around, given the slope at Lords. I can possibly see a recall for Harmison, which may meet Mitchell Johnson's performance in this Test. I'll have to look at the forecast, but I can see another wicket which produces runs, and England don't perform well at Lords either v Australia.

Shut up Ponting! It's usually the Aussies that accuse us of whining.What goes around comes around.

Got out of jail free.

Now can somebody teach / remind our "top" 6 batsmen the virtue of playing straight and not chasing balls 3ft or more outside the off peg? And to take guard in front of the crease to the opening bowlers - you ain't going to get stumped and have far less chance of being lbw.

Tests are a 5 day game - not 20/20.

Exactly,give me 6 Collingwoods anyday.

What I most feared is already coming to pass. Instead of looking back over four-and-a-half days of high-grade rubbishness, the cricketing chiefs are talking about the "rearguard action," "saving the day" and "spirited fight" as being a springboard to go on and win matches. They're completely ignoring the fact that we were hopelessly outplayed, and look set fair for a drubbing.

I cant see many changes at all as it seems harder to get out of the team than to get in. Still not too sure about Cook but in all honesty I dont really know who could replace him, apart from yesterday Key has not done much this season and I've not seen Denley play so cant comment on him.

Monty will be dropped and Swann retained and the calf injury could be rolled out as a good excuse to rest Broad. If both these are dropped I can only see the selectors bringing in Onions and Harmison to the squad.

Flintoff is retiring from test cricket after this series

The traditional England wobble. Collingwood has absolutely thrown his wicket away against the benign Clarke, and Prior has just gone to probably the second straight delivery which Johnson has sent down all day. 321/5.

Well after a good start we are chucking it away again and the new ball is due

So early on the third day of the Second Test, we get the chance to enforce the follow-on. Now granted that this pitch is probably not going to deteriorate until the fifth day, and that the Australians' first innings performance is probably down to the prevailing conditions, which have allowed for a lot more swing than in Cardiff, but can anyone give me a single reason NOT to enforce the follow-on?

I know there was the possibility of Australia reversing what happened in India, when India scored heavily when following on (scorecard here) (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1551), but that is incredibly rare.

Given that Hauritz is carrying an injury, and that really their bowling attack isn't the best (though our batting has been mesmerically lazy), I'd rather that they had got to around 400, which would have set us about 190-210 to win.

Setting them an unassailable total is one thing, but there are two days left for them to reach it, and we've just lost our 4th wicket with a lead of 384. It's incredibly negative, incredibly disappointing, and potentially ruinous. It's almost as if we're saying that we'd be glad of the draw, despite dominating this match.

So early on the third day of the Second Test, we get the chance to enforce the follow-on. Now granted that this pitch is probably not going to deteriorate until the fifth day, and that the Australian's first innings performance is probably down to the prevailing conditions, which have allowed for a lot more swing than in Cardiff, but can anyone give me a single reason NOT to enforce the follow-on?

I know there was the possibility of Australia reversing what happened in India, when India scored heavily when following on (scorecard here) (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1551), but that is incredibly rare.

Given that Hauritz is carrying an injury, and that really their bowling attack isn't the best (though our batting has been mesmerically lazy), I'd rather that they had got to around 400, which would have set us about 190-210 to win.

Setting them an unassailable total is one thing, but there are two days left for them to reach it, and we've just lost our 4th wicket with a lead of 384. It's incredibly negative, incredibly disappointing, and potentially ruinous. It's almost as if we're saying that we'd be glad of the draw, despite dominating this match.

yeah...this puzzles me also, why not make them bat again..?? if they beat our score we get to bat again don't we...or am i wrong..??
what was the point in us batting first and getting runs if they are not needed..surely it is best to bat when you know what you have to get:huh:

yeah...this puzzles me also, why not make them bat again..?? if they beat our score we get to bat again don't we...or am i wrong..??
what was the point in us batting first and getting runs if they are not needed..surely it is best to bat when you know what you have to get:huh:

No, we don't get a third innings! I can't see Australia making the total we'll set, but I can see them batting it out to secure a draw. I'd rather have looked at making a smallish winning total batting fourth, than setting up a defensive performance for the Aussies.

Hmm

I agree HH this is incredibly negative and cautious from Strauss and the England camp. It makes it look like we're almost saying that us bowling them out for such a low score was an accident/ lucky and that we doubt we could do it again.

Think it could turn out ok though.......:roll:

I suppose they looked at the weather forecast for today and saw it was going to be decent batting weather. If this turns out to be a win for us great but if it turns into another india from a couple of years ago then some serious questions need to be asked

I think a declaration overnight is nailed on, but I am a bit worried that we've left the door open for the draw. Mush, you echo my sentiments entirely about how negative it looks.

NW, I agree about the weather, but whichever way I look at it, I'd rather have had the chance of having them at (effectively) 0/5 by the close of play today, and to attack to go 1-0 up, than let them have a sniff of an Atherton/Stewart/Russell from South Africa-type innings.

Even though that was the finest rearguard action I've ever seen in a Test!

Six sessions depending on the weather, three new balls and ten wickets to get and hopefully a fully fit and rested bowling attack. I'm still puzzled as to why Freddie didn't bowl yesterday morning. There's been not mention of him being injured

flintoff was struggling to be fit for the 2nd test but made it through, my guess is england batted again to give the bowlers a bit of a rest as they will bowling for at least a day and a half. i think england will bat this morning and declare just before or at lunch. all of you who gifted the series win to australia are a bit pessimistic, england have got a great chance of going 1-0 up in the series after a poor performance in the 1st test.

The Independent on Sunday cricket competition has "hit wicket" today!

Day 4 of the competition, and there are the usual "guesstimate" type questions featured in the paper this morning...unfortunately, the configuration of the answers page on their website is wrong, so nobody will be able to enter....

Nice one!

England have declared on 311 for 6, leaving the Aussies chasing a massive 522 runs over 2 days to win. It's a massive target, far higher than any other succesful run chase; so why do I feel nervous?

England have declared on 311 for 6, leaving the Aussies chasing a massive 522 runs over 2 days to win. It's a massive target, far higher than any other succesful run chase; so why do I feel nervous?

Because we have not had a good bowling attack for a while and we have let many teams in the same situation off the hook over the last few years. India, South Africa, West Indies and Sri Lanka have all survived from a similar position.

38-2 england really have had the rub of the green with their bowling in this test, never a catch from strauss but well take it! dont forget, we shouldnt be just worried about them defending, they can still win, the wicket is going to be as flat as ever over these 2 days and if ponting gets in he will really hurt us.

38-2 england really have had the rub of the green with their bowling in this test, never a catch from strauss but well take it! dont forget, we shouldnt be just worried about them defending, they can still win, the wicket is going to be as flat as ever over these 2 days and if ponting gets in he will really hurt us.

418 is the highest ever winning score in a test 4th innings and there have only been 3 other winning scores of 400 in the history of test matches so if Oz pull this off it's going to smash the record by a long way. Only 2 teams have scored over 450 in the 4th innings and one of those lost and the other drew.

Ponting out 78 for 3

Game over!

120 for 4 sounds like another dodgy decision

128 for 5. Looking good

Thank god for that. I was a bit worried this morning.

Can we all take the afternoon off work to celebrate?

Can we all take the afternoon off work to celebrate?


I'm tempted to take the week off. First win against the Aussies at Lords since 1934.

good job someone on here was backing england for the series before it started :roll:. england have a far better bowling attack, by far when flintoff is bowling like he is. Be interesting to see what happens when brett lee is back and if johnson gets in the side, he truly is an appauling bowler.

England will win the ashes!

I'm tempted to take the week off. First win against the Aussies at Lords since 1934.

Yeh, go and get the ale in.

It'll be 2084 before we do that again.:hihi:

Pietersen to miss rest of the series

Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/8162048.stm)

I want Bell in at five, or Key in at three. Whichever way, either Colly or Boppie has to go. I'd prefer to keep Colly at three, and sacrifice Boppie.

I only say this as I think Collie is the steadier batsman at three. Bell is so much more effective at five (or even six) than the position of three which people covet for him. We must also remember that we lead 1-0 in this series, and as such, the Third Test is crucial.

Let's have a good look at the surface for Edgbaston.

I want Bell in at five, or Key in at three. Whichever way, either Colly or Boppie has to go.

I've just realised how much fun either "Old Style TMS", "Round The Horne", or even more accurately "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" could have had fun with that statement :hihi:.

To add, the Baby Faced Omipalone prefers deliveries from the Pavilion End. Especially when the going is soft. And Samantha is jealous anyway. I knew she wanted a hard drive in the covers, but she never got hold of any of my googlies.

I would rather have someone else in than Bell, he does not do well against the aussies

I would rather have someone else in than Bell, he does not do well against the aussies

youve been watching to much sky sports news, or reading to much Sun newspaper :hihi: bell is a much much better player now, he has a lot of test match experience. If he came back into the side i think he will do well, hes averaging 70 this season so hes in good form.

youve been watching to much sky sports news, or reading to much Sun newspaper :hihi: bell is a much much better player now, he has a lot of test match experience. If he came back into the side i think he will do well, hes averaging 70 this season so hes in good form.

We will have to wait and see who is right next week then eh

you say they shouldnt have chose bell, but who else is good enough to be a top order batsmen for england against the aussies? who else has got as much experience as bell at not only playing for england but playing against the aussies?

Not had experience but Robert Key is in good form

tbh i don't rate key at all, he looked average in the 20/20 world cup, i heard he was a good batter but looked out of sorts in the game against netherlands.

If I was an England selector I'd have been begging Michael Vaughan to reconsider his retirement.

No Harmison please, I would rather draw this series than let him anywhere near this team.
How many times has he failed to deliver, how many time has he failed to come close, how many times do we have to hear the same ****e from him and the people who support him.

you say they shouldnt have chose bell, but who else is good enough to be a top order batsmen for england against the aussies? who else has got as much experience as bell at not only playing for england but playing against the aussies?

Bell is much more effective at five than three. Look at the stats.

If I was an England selector I'd have been begging Michael Vaughan to reconsider his retirement.

I'd be crying that Tresco can't play international cricket any more, Ramps wouldn't cut it now, and that it's too vital a time to try and fiddle Johnathan Trott's passport for the Third Test.

No Harmison please, I would rather draw this series than let him anywhere near this team.
How many times has he failed to deliver, how many time has he failed to come close, how many times do we have to hear the same ****e from him and the people who support him.

By 'failed to deliver', do you mean something akin to the first ball of the last away series? If so, Mitchell Johnson is doing a damned good impression of Harmy in fairness.

Chairboy (I think) said it correctly when he said that he should just be left at Durham, and barely allowed to play in away matches in the County Championship.

what a start to the play today, 202-7 before even lunch, so in perspective 2 sessions of play and australia are in dyer straights. great bowling by onions and now anderson, flintoff has looked a little out of sorts.

I was most pleased to read of Strauss allowing the Oz to replace their wicketkeeper after the teams had been declared - I can think of many captains, both English and foreign, who would have forced the opposition to play a 'keeper with a bust hand. Sportsmanship is not all dead, then.

what a start to the play today, 202-7 before even lunch, so in perspective 2 sessions of play and australia are in dyer straights. great bowling by onions and now anderson, flintoff has looked a little out of sorts.

All out for 263. Good job the aussies got off to a good start yesterday and we dropped a couple of sitters.

Can we avoid the follow on

All out for 263. Good job the aussies got off to a good start yesterday and we dropped a couple of sitters.

The ball is moving absolutely everywhere. I know I'm stating the bleeding obvious, but this has to be a result wicket if it keeps up.

Can we avoid the follow on

Ha ha ha! Could be dodgy!

Ive got the fear that old trafford 97 is about to repeat itself.

Ive got the fear that old trafford 97 is about to repeat itself.

You will have to refresh my memory .. I remember us being all out for 46 when we only needed about 150 to win, but that was in the Windies, not at home.

You will have to refresh my memory .. I remember us being all out for 46 when we only needed about 150 to win, but that was in the Windies, not at home.

We were one nil up in the series and we bowled the aussies out for 235 in the first innings, in return we scored 162. In the second innings they scored 395 and we got 200 which meant they won by 268 runs and level the series 1-1.

Given the forecast, I can't see that happening to be honest. Off for bad light as well now. Bell has used up one of his lives as well. How Rudi didn't give that out LBW is completely beyond me.

As plumb as plumb can be.

bad light stopped play, 116-2, strauss has been a revellation since being the captain, he continues to show the rest of the batsmen how to bat. bell batting solidly after a lucky escape. proving all his critics wrong at minute, lets hope he can continue. on another note, rudy kuertzen (or however you spell his name) is having a shocker of a series, gave some bad decisions in the last test and bell should have gone.

Bopara is not a number 3

Neither is Bell.

Personally of the two, I'd rather Ravi be at three than Bell. Meanwhile, I notice another potential disaster in a Roses match, and that our real alternative to KP at three (but who is too ill) in Tresco has just reached 1000 county runs for the season.

Well done Tresco - I hope your head is sorting itself out now.

Neither is Bell.

Personally of the two, I'd rather Ravi be at three than Bell. Meanwhile, I notice another potential disaster in a Roses match, and that our real alternative to KP at three (but who is too ill) in Tresco has just reached 1000 county runs for the season.

Well done Tresco - I hope your head is sorting itself out now.

I agree with you about Bell, he has played his best cricket at 5 and 6 I just do not have confidence in Bopara batting in that position when he is put in the position he was today.

I agree with you about Bell, he has played his best cricket at 5 and 6 I just do not have confidence in Bopara batting in that position when he is put in the position he was today.

Obviously, being the experienced Test batsman who I am (hur hur), Ravi was out to a bit of a banana earlier, and he knows it. It was just a lazy, poor shot, and exactly why he shouldn't be at three.

The problem is that the obvious best FOUR number three batsmen for England aren't available for selection.

Given the forecast, I can't see that happening to be honest. Off for bad light as well now. Bell has used up one of his lives as well. How Rudi didn't give that out LBW is completely beyond me.

As plumb as plumb can be.


I know what you mean about that decision and he got another stonewall lbw in his favour today. I really do think that Rudi Koetzen should retire gracefully, because his eyesight leaves a lot to be desired

Aussies 2 wickets down in their second innings and Rudi Koetzen misses another shocking lbw against Ponting before he got out. Please retire this blind umpire as soon as possible

We can win this. The Aussies are 161 for 4, that's a lead of 48 at the moment. We have a new ball to come before tea and even Broad has taken a wicket

We can win this. The Aussies are 161 for 4, that's a lead of 48 at the moment. We have a new ball to come before tea and even Broad has taken a wicket

If they can drop 6 aussies in the afternoon session, there's an outside chance.

Bopara is not a number 3

Bopara is not a number 3

He has got to be dropped next match, for a proper batsman

The match is in Headingley too. We could easily be watching Yorkshire the way the batsman are playing

Bopara is not a number 3

No but he is a bit of a number 2

:hihi:

Anybody want to buy a ticket for the 5th day?

there is a good chance it will be over on the 3rd day i would think

Anybody want to buy a ticket for the 5th day?

Ha ha ha! I had the same thought! I've not even paid for mine yet!

He has got to be dropped next match, for a proper batsman

See post #85:hihi:
All we had to do was pick a side to not loose.An extra bowler was a mistake.If you want to win a match,pick bowlers.If you want to not loose it,pick as many batters as you can.Englands first consideration should have been not to loose.
And why anyone would choose to bat at Headingley after a night of rain and on a humid day is beyond me.

See post #85:hihi:
All we had to do was pick a side to not loose.An extra bowler was a mistake.If you want to win a match,pick bowlers.If you want to not loose it,pick as many batters as you can.Englands first consideration should have been not to loose.
And why anyone would choose to bat at Headingley after a night of rain and on a humid day is beyond me.

I would think Rob Key is a better batsman than Bopara, he had a good time with the bat against a poor west indies side but had struggled against the aussies. Same with Ian Bell, we are going backwards picking him. Why did we not put in that Johnaton trott who was in the squad. he has a championship average of 85 this season

I would think Rob Key is a better batsman than Bopara, he had a good time with the bat against a poor west indies side but had struggled against the aussies. Same with Ian Bell, we are going backwards picking him. Why did we not put in that Johnaton trott who was in the squad. he has a championship average of 85 this season

Key has had a terrible season so far, and while there obviously was a problem with England's batting today, the real problem is ensuring that we can get twenty wickets, and frankly, that won't happen.

Due to England's craven performance with the willow we are now in a perilous place runs-wise in any case. Obviously early wickets would possibly remedy this, but I'm looking at how the hell we can get wickets, and I'm struggling. The weather isn't set fair, and I've already got the teepees and totem poles out to hope that rain comes this way.

Harmison is too wayward for a small total. That's not his fault, but it does put a massive dent into our attack. As was said by the Chairboy, he should simply stay in Durham. To be sure, I'm not blaming Harmy for our predilection, but he makes Mr Extras look like Don Bradman at times.

I pray that he rips through the Aussies tomorrow, but I can't see it. He can be the best in the world on song, but he's too risky. Why on earth wasn't Sidey brought back on a wicket which was going to have movement, and conditions to suit?

Trott shouldn't have been needed for runs (but now he has qualified - thought he was South African? - should be noted) in the initial reckoning, as Headingley has always been a result wicket. He may even think himself lucky that he avoided his first call up in this Test.

I fear that Harmison's inclusion over Sidebottom could be instrumental in this series turning fundamentally towards Australia. Much will be made of our decent record at the Oval, but generally the series had been lost by then, rather like our record at Sydney.

Sidebottom knows Headingley like the back of his hand. Bring a Yorkie back and not only will he know it, but will complain about it even if it's the same as it was before.

So basically, nobody can take wickets. Pray for rain, or that I'm utterly wide of the mark.

This is dire

Aussies well on top now. England 4 wickets down, its like watching Yorkshire this season

Bopara is not a number 3

No. A golden duck this time. A bit unlucky but you get the impression he'd've been out a few balls later anyway.

Did anyone go yesterday. The crowd seemed stunned into silence for most of the day.

Men against boys. If there's any justice, The Aussies will win at Oval leaving England and their fans with their noses well and truly rubbed in it (again).

Lets get a proper batsman back. Bring back Trescothick for the final match. We wont have KP or Freddy back I would imagine. Bopara might as well be sat in the stand with the supporters for what use he is. Same with Bell

As much as I'd love Tresco at three, I don't know how many times he has to say "I'm not playing international cricket again, because I'm nuts.", before people get the message. It took me a while, I'll admit, but mainly because I thought his problem was being overseas. After he continually went to the press to say "They're pressuring me again!", it was time to put that chapter behind us.

Similarly, if I hear one more person demand Ramprakash back, I shall take an old Duncan Fearnley to their head and cream it for four. And that's from a number eleven rabbit. Too many chances, and not one taken.

Nearly twenty years ago we talked of people 'doing a Ramps', which meant getting to 32 and then throwing the wicket away.

So this leaves us with what? There isn't a prayer that I'd want to throw a debutant in at three such as Trott for such an important match, and a lot rests on Freddie too. No side should revolve around one player, but whilst Freddie's captaincy was doomed (as was Beefy's nearly thirty years ago), he has a presence on the field which can be worth a couple of wickets.

In just the same way, KP's presence can give us an extra thirty runs at least. I doubt that either player will be fit, so who comes in at three? Well, assuming we're keeping Bopara in, maybe he could be at four as Key comes in and Collingwood departs. This means bringing Prior up to five, or having Foster in (I like Foster by the way).

We need a spinner, and Anderson is everywhere. I fear that Harmy and Anderson will remain, despite how wildly inaccurate they have been. Swann must be there, and one real quickie.

My XI would be as follows:

Strauss
Cook
Key
Bopara
Prior
Bell
Broad
Swann
(problem position) possibly Sidebottom, maybe at 8 instead of 9
Harmison
Onions

If not Sidebottom as a 5-5 attack, then it has to be an experienced batsman for such a vital Test, and one who hasn't already failed over and over again. I prefer the option of an extra batsman, but who the hell that would be, I don't know. I'm very uncomfortable about keeping Colly in, but he may be the only batting option. The only othe I can think of is Foster in behind the stumps and Prior further up the order as a pure batsman, as Stewart used to play sometimes.

Another thing to think about the Oval is that even though we have an amazingly good record there, half of the time the series is a dead rubber by the Fifth Test. Our general record should be discounted.

We need to take twenty wickets, and that's why I'd rather have Broad in (who has taken some stick) than Anderson. Anderson is too expensive for me. Harmison is too, but in an emergency situation, I'd rather have a bowler who can be the best in the world, than one who won't. If Harmy could get the sort of figures which another wayward rabbit got at the Oval (in Devon Malcolm), I'd be very happy. I can't see Anderson doing that.

And after that we've got to hope the pressure doesn't get to them.

[EDIT] Key had a dreadful start to the season, but does have a recent record which is decent - that's the reason for changing my mind a bit.

Rob Key got 270 in one game earlier this season, but has not done anything much lately, but who has since the break for Twenty -20?

But, he has got the temprement and experience to hang in, and not throw his wicket away (a similar trait to Collingwood), and he was very unlucky to get dropped.

One player who is solid and who I do like the look of for the future is Paul Horton, the Lancs player who was schooled in Oz. But neither he nor to my knowledge Trott have ever been given a going over by a strong attack in county cricket.

I certainly believe in horses for courses for bowlers.
Yes, Sidebottom should have played instead of Harmison At Headingley; but the Oval is a ground on which Harmison seems to relsih and excels.

What about going for 2 spinners at the Oval, and if so, which 2?

As a point for discussion would Rashid be a better bet than Monty based on his batting and fielding.

Rob Key got 270 in one game earlier this season, but has not done anything much lately, but who has since the break for Twenty -20?

But, he has got the temprement and experience to hang in, and not throw his wicket away (a similar trait to Collingwood), and he was very unlucky to get dropped.

He's had another century in that time, and despite a duck and a one, his average in July was over 100. Overall this season his average is over 50 (I think), although scoring some 400 in two innings will clearly boost that.

One player who is solid and who I do like the look of for the future is Paul Horton, the Lancs player who was schooled in Oz. But neither he nor to my knowledge Trott have ever been given a going over by a strong attack in county cricket.

I'll put that down to the fact that the CCC seems to be merely a bit part in the hierarchy of English cricket now.

I certainly believe in horses for courses for bowlers.
Yes, Sidebottom should have played instead of Harmison At Headingley; but the Oval is a ground on which Harmison seems to relsih and excels.

Indeed, and that's another reason to include him, but for all his positives, if he's not on a going day (to continue the racing analogies) he a total liability. I'd pick him, but relatively reluctantly.

What about going for 2 spinners at the Oval, and if so, which 2?

As a point for discussion would Rashid be a better bet than Monty based on his batting and fielding.

I said at the start of the series that I was worried about this 'twin spin' lark for several reasons, not least that we haven't got two spinners who are consistently good enough.

Whilst it's true to say that 'catches win matches', and certainly Rashid tops Monty by a mile in that department, 'fours gain applause' as well. Given that Adil is only marginally more accurate than the mighty(!) Ian Salisbury, he'd be far too much of a risk, especially on debut.

Back to Monty, as much as I love him to bits, he has no variation whatsoever, and I could see him taking a pasting at the Oval. Australia are only looking to recall Hauritz as Clark won't bowl, I'm sure.

I said at the start of the series that I was worried about this 'twin spin' lark for several reasons, not least that we haven't got two spinners who are consistently good enough.

Whilst it's true to say that 'catches win matches', and certainly Rashid tops Monty by a mile in that department, 'fours gain applause' as well. Given that Adil is only marginally more accurate than the mighty(!) Ian Salisbury, he'd be far too much of a risk, especially on debut.

Back to Monty, as much as I love him to bits, he has no variation whatsoever, and I could see him taking a pasting at the Oval. Australia are only looking to recall Hauritz as Clark won't bowl, I'm sure.

I think Australia will keep with the 4 pace bowler attack, Katich and North can bowl spin if needed.

I agree with you about Monty, he just hasn't kicked on from his introduction into test cricket and batsmen have got used to him which is why if we were going to play 2 spinners I would play Rashid in front of Monty. If we dont go for the 2 spinners I would have a bowling attack of Flintoff, Anderson (if fit, Onions if not), Swann, Broad and Sidebottom.

As much as I'd love Tresco at three, I don't know how many times he has to say "I'm not playing international cricket again, because I'm nuts.", before people get the message. It took me a while, I'll admit, but mainly because I thought his problem was being overseas. After he continually went to the press to say "They're pressuring me again!", it was time to put that chapter behind us.

Similarly, if I hear one more person demand Ramprakash back, I shall take an old Duncan Fearnley to their head and cream it for four. And that's from a number eleven rabbit. Too many chances, and not one taken.

Nearly twenty years ago we talked of people 'doing a Ramps', which meant getting to 32 and then throwing the wicket away.

So this leaves us with what? There isn't a prayer that I'd want to throw a debutant in at three such as Trott for such an important match, and a lot rests on Freddie too. No side should revolve around one player, but whilst Freddie's captaincy was doomed (as was Beefy's nearly thirty years ago), he has a presence on the field which can be worth a couple of wickets.

In just the same way, KP's presence can give us an extra thirty runs at least. I doubt that either player will be fit, so who comes in at three? Well, assuming we're keeping Bopara in, maybe he could be at four as Key comes in and Collingwood departs. This means bringing Prior up to five, or having Foster in (I like Foster by the way).

We need a spinner, and Anderson is everywhere. I fear that Harmy and Anderson will remain, despite how wildly inaccurate they have been. Swann must be there, and one real quickie.

My XI would be as follows:

Strauss
Cook
Key
Bopara
Prior
Bell
Broad
Swann
(problem position) possibly Sidebottom, maybe at 8 instead of 9
Harmison
Onions

If not Sidebottom as a 5-5 attack, then it has to be an experienced batsman for such a vital Test, and one who hasn't already failed over and over again. I prefer the option of an extra batsman, but who the hell that would be, I don't know. I'm very uncomfortable about keeping Colly in, but he may be the only batting option. The only othe I can think of is Foster in behind the stumps and Prior further up the order as a pure batsman, as Stewart used to play sometimes.

Another thing to think about the Oval is that even though we have an amazingly good record there, half of the time the series is a dead rubber by the Fifth Test. Our general record should be discounted.

We need to take twenty wickets, and that's why I'd rather have Broad in (who has taken some stick) than Anderson. Anderson is too expensive for me. Harmison is too, but in an emergency situation, I'd rather have a bowler who can be the best in the world, than one who won't. If Harmy could get the sort of figures which another wayward rabbit got at the Oval (in Devon Malcolm), I'd be very happy. I can't see Anderson doing that.

And after that we've got to hope the pressure doesn't get to them.

[EDIT] Key had a dreadful start to the season, but does have a recent record which is decent - that's the reason for changing my mind a bit.

what are you smoking? i want some! :hihi:

if you seriously think dropping anderson is the answer your :loopy: hes englands best bowler by a country mile, you think he should be dropped because he had a bad game at headingly? so why would you continue with bopara whos had a bad game in all the 4 tests? i agree sidebottom should be in though but the only guy you can really replace him with is broad who for me is not an international test cricket bowler, yes he got 6 other day but hes been nothing but poor other than that, the only thing saving him is the fact hes batting better than most of the batsmen

A

We need to take twenty wickets, and that's why I'd rather have Broad in (who has taken some stick) than Anderson. Anderson is too expensive for me. Harmison is too, but in an emergency situation, I'd rather have a bowler who can be the best in the world, than one who won't. If Harmy could get the sort of figures which another wayward rabbit got at the Oval (in Devon Malcolm), I'd be very happy. I can't see Anderson doing that.



you need to take a look at andersons stats, 7 5-Wicket Hauls, at an economy rate of 3.47! how the hell is that expensive, if your an opening bowler and your economy rate is under 4 you know your a good bowler! broad has only ever taken 1 5 wicket haul which was his 6! i know who i would rather have in when we need to take 20 wickets

Anderson is our best bowler when the conditions suit him but easy to play when they don't.

Bell at 3
Colly at 4
Trott at 5

That's not filling me with any confidence

Cook out 12 for 1.

England 12 for 1 already, Bell is next in so shouldn't be long before we are 2 down

bell and strauss going well at minute, bell obviously hasnt worked on playing the short ball!

100 up before lunch, we need to get 600 as this looks like a batters paradise

if we can get to over 300 before prior and flintoff get in then we have a good chance, prior and flintoff if stay in will score at a very fast rate, plus the added runs of broad and swann.

i think England are a good side trying there best

Four down now, and the run rate arrested. Swinging slightly back to Australia now.

Hold out a bit longer....

what are you smoking? i want some! :hihi:

if you seriously think dropping anderson is the answer your :loopy: hes englands best bowler by a country mile, you think he should be dropped because he had a bad game at headingly? so why would you continue with bopara whos had a bad game in all the 4 tests? i agree sidebottom should be in though but the only guy you can really replace him with is broad who for me is not an international test cricket bowler, yes he got 6 other day but hes been nothing but poor other than that, the only thing saving him is the fact hes batting better than most of the batsmen

Well, there is a certain amount of 'aftertiming' here, but the batting is shown up again. I'll grant that Trott got to a decent forty, but the wickets have been quite sloppy, and unfortunately none more so than the figurehead of Freddie, and the failure of Collingwood was expected.

My point about Anderson is that if things don't go his way, he's a batsman's birthday. Harmison is the same in many ways, but as I said before, he can be, and indeed has been rated in the past, the best bowler in the world, and also loves the Oval. Maybe when saying he should stay at Durham was errant; I think we need him here. Anderson could cost us the Test and he series in a matter of a few overs. I pray I'm very wrong.

Broad can use a bat (a bit), but has genuine pace, and a slower ball, and will swing it. He had to be there, but I still think Sidey should have been there.

As for Ravi and the upper order, I was trying to sort them out into an order which made more sense. I agree that Bopara hasn't quite cut it, but neither has Colly recently. That's why I wanted Key in, who is a traditional three. Bopara I think could make a good four. He's not a three.

There again, neither is Bell. Yes, he had a 70-odd, which is much more than any of us could hope to muster against their attack (especially me!), but early doors it was a batting paradise. It could have been Taunton. Bell is much better suited to five or six.

Anyway, back onto today's play, which has almost mirrored the play from the Fifth Test in 2005 (look at the scores), we have to pray for wickets after we're skittled. Losing the eighth so late was a real blow, as the new ball should be more effective in the morning. An extra wicket in hand could have been very useful.

All of that said, although it's advantage Australia, there's a long way to go, and we may see one of the greatest final Tests of a series. We must try to bat for as long as possible in the first innings though. This is a result pitch.

well done to England today, could be a good lead built up going into their 2nd innings. Lets just hope we can build a lead of about 350-400 and it should be won

ill eat my words about broad! lol england have got this game by the scruff of the neck now, still need to take 12 wickets, but with the wicket the way it is now this will be over by the end of day 4, turned from a batters paradise to a bowlers paradise within a day haha

ill eat my words about broad! lol england have got this game by the scruff of the neck now, still need to take 12 wickets, but with the wicket the way it is now this will be over by the end of day 4, turned from a batters paradise to a bowlers paradise within a day haha

Indeed! Two awful umpiring decisons certainly don't detract from how well England have bowled. The Clark decision was absolutely appalling, but I'll take it.

Although Broad(ahem!) and Swann have taken all nine between them, it has been a decent all round effort.

Oh look! Freddie whips them in! 160 all out from 73/0. So England are effectively 172/0 at the moment.

Will this Oval shoot-out for the Ashes be remembered as one of those, "The king is dead, long live the king," moments? Chris Broad certainly CAN bowl...and we know he can bat. I foresee a long England career. :)
Anyway...come on England...let's show Justin Langer some English character. :D

I just noticed that Australia only scored 87 runs after the first dismissal - their version of 'Nelson'.

england cant lose it from here, 250 runs and this game is all but over, espescially if australia are batting in their 2nd innings on the 4th and 5th day!

when i say they cant lose it, they can still draw but even that is unlikely from here

cook out, 27 for 1

Bell out, 34 for 2

We lead by 206, on a pitch which is coming apart at the seams, and even a lead of 300 should be more than enough on it.

I still can't help being nervous.

Colly out, 39 for 3. This isn't over yet

I can see Hilfenhaus being used a lot on this wicket. I still can't believe that they didn't pick Hauritz, when the Oval is like Sydney. Fifth Test, and a slow wicket, but has some 'spring', rather than 'bounce'. Never mind the wicket, I want us to take the match beyond them, so I pray that we can bat until tea at least.

I daren't believe. It's not in my repertoire.