I just thought I would ask the question on here and see what people really know about?

These breeds are illegal in the Uk. Sad though it is - as they are a great dog - however, they are illegal and have been for a long time. Therefore there should not be any of these 'types' being bred.

Why then - are so many of the poor sods being found all over the country - picked up in dog pounds - abandoned on streets - no doubt to be 'found' and then let the council have to take on the burden of what to do with them.

For god sake stop breeding them. They have feelings, are great loving dogs - but have no place in the UK. Breed dogs that people want and can have - not leave these poor things to be destroyed for no other fault than idiots that are breeding them through ignorance, greed or cruelty.

Spread the word - STOP BREEDING PITTS AND THEIR TYPES

Believe me that dogs are most definitely being bred and being sold on, and I know this for sure after several people have tried to advertise them for sale in the group, both puppies and adults alike (obviously ads were promptly removed as it illegal).

I have seen them for sale (ads) in the local pet shop, and only last week I saw a perfect example of a red nose PB at the shops with his owner, I hasten to add that the dog looked very well cared and well behaved even as a dog walked by, but he was entire and un-muzzled, so therefore almost certainly illegal.

What surprises me is that some people still do not realise that they are breaking the law by breeding and selling these dogs, even by just owning them in most cases.

There is still a lot of ignorance about the plight of the bull breeds people seem to think that nothing bad will happen to the pups that they breed...it's always someone else's fault/problem, it's sad, it's time that people woke up to the fact that lovely dogs are dyeing needlessly in their thousands :(

So what can we do to improve education - maybe let them see the dogs that were one someone's puppies - before they have to be destroyed.

Like the story of Bruce - in Northern Island - they don't have to do anything wrong - just by being a suspect x pitt they can and will be destroyed. And worse than that.

How do we educate people into stopping breeing these dogs?

Part of the issue is that it's really hard to define the type and some weasel words have been used to try to pass Pitts off as Irish Staffies, American Staffies and others.

On top of that, many people simply can't tell the difference between Pitts, Staffies and other bull breeds, which means that there are probably people out there with perfectly happy and healthy dogs which they are innocently walking around with, not knowing that they fall into the 'type'.

Not that this excuses this of course- ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. I just know of a number of people who have had a very pretty ferny leafed plant growing in pots in their conservatories without knowing what it is (including one who wondered why it wasn't bearing any tomatoes!) so if there's any comparison, there are a lot of people walking round with illegal dogs without knowing it.

Its a common problem - people don't know what a pit bull terrier actually is or looks like.
Its quite easy to produce a pit bull looking dog crossing some more publicly accepted "placid" dogs , mastiff x lab,boxer x lab.
The rules are also easily confused, SBT,EBT or Am Bulldog aren't illegal yet loads of folks think they are.

What is a pitbull type? Any dog that looks a bit like a pitbull? But alot of staffy crosses can look like a pitbull without having any pitbull in them

What is a pitbull type? Any dog that looks a bit like a pitbull? But alot of staffy crosses can look like a pitbull without having any pitbull in themYou're so right. This quiz highlight just how difficult it is to tell:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


edit: it took me 5 tries, and I thought I would be good at that... :suspect:

Can I just ask are any of these following breeds banned in the UK?
Some of them ring a bell but I can't remember why...

Dogo Argentino (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b20.jpg)
Presa Canario (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b3.jpg)
Cane Corso (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b12.jpg)

I think their all illegal except for the cane corso I may be wrong

all "fighting" dogs and therefore attract the inadequate.

Bring back dog licenses, enforce the law we will soon see who the real dog lovers are then.Can I just ask are any of these following breeds banned in the UK?
Some of them ring a bell but I can't remember why...

Dogo Argentino (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b20.jpg)
Presa Canario (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b3.jpg)
Cane Corso (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b12.jpg)

imo , dog licenses , will not work ,i dont think that there will be anyone to police it + how many unlicensed car drivers is there? i believe that the only way that any control can be achieved is by compulsery microchipping with the last owner responsable until change of ownership,Anydog found without a chip siezed then chipped before rehoming ]
. The responseabillity of updating details should lie with the last reg owner& not the new one (as with cars ) remember just my opinion

You're so right. This quiz highlight just how difficult it is to tell:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


edit: it took me 5 tries, and I thought I would be good at that... :suspect:

Part of the problem with pictures of pitbulls and lots of other breeds which aren't in this country is that when you clip their ears it takes away one feature for identifying what sort of dog it is.

If you take a perfectly happy, friendly and normal bull breed and clip their ears then you have what looks like a fighting dog and people will assume it is dangerous, even if there's no other link.

I'm SO glad that this is illegal in this country. It's barbaric and if there's no good reason for it to be done then the dog should not be put through it.

imo , dog licenses , will not work ,i dont think that there will be anyone to police it + how many unlicensed car drivers is there? i believe that the only way that any control can be achieved is by compulsery microchipping with the last owner responsable until change of ownership,Anydog found without a chip siezed then chipped before rehoming ]
. The responseabillity of updating details should lie with the last reg owner& not the new one (as with cars ) remember just my opinionThats the best idea for a decent solution that I have heard.

If they introduced on-the-spot-fines to people caught with an un-microchipped dog or a dog microchipped to someone else, then surely the police would be interested enough to carry microchip scanners and follow this up with as much voracity as they do speeding offences?
(ie if the process paid for itself, or was even profit making, then it is more likely to succeed?)

(there would obviously have to be some kind of appeal process like with speeding fines, for people walking someone else's dog with the owners permission)

There are only 4 breeds of dog currently banned in the UK:
Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro

There are only 4 breeds of dog currently banned in the UK:
Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila BrasileiroAh, thanks for clearing that up for me :)
I knew about the Japanese Tosa... but must have been getting 'Presa Canario' muddled with 'Dogo Argentino'

Believe me that dogs are most definitely being bred and being sold on, and I know this for sure after several people have tried to advertise them for sale in the group, both puppies and adults alike (obviously ads were promptly removed as it illegal).

I have seen them for sale (ads) in the local pet shop, and only last week I saw a perfect example of a red nose PB at the shops with his owner, I hasten to add that the dog looked very well cared and well behaved even as a dog walked by, but he was entire and un-muzzled, so therefore almost certainly illegal.

What surprises me is that some people still do not realise that they are breaking the law by breeding and selling these dogs, even by just owning them in most cases.

There is still a lot of ignorance about the plight of the bull breeds people seem to think that nothing bad will happen to the pups that they breed...it's always someone else's fault/problem, it's sad, it's time that people woke up to the fact that lovely dogs are dyeing needlessly in their thousands :(This reminds me of when I was at 'Black Bank' a couple of years ago. There was a lovely big dog there that looked a little bit like a bigger more muscly version of Gadget with the same colouring, so I asked the owner what breed it was, and she shouted across the field "Staff cross Pitt" :o
I was shocked that she would advertise this to a complete stranger! How would she know I wouldn't 'snitch' to the authorities??
Either she was unaware that this dog was actually illegal to have, or saw it as some kind of 'hard' status symbol?? (kinda like youths smoking a spliff in public then looking at you like 'yeah - what you gonna do about it?!)

Trouble is how do you define which is which Staffie X or Pit? Like the poor story of Bruce is he a "Pit Bull Type" or a Staffie X , He looks like a staffie x to me but others may argue against that .
How would they police this , i think there must be loads on the estate where live, :huh:.I own a staffy myself (he's a big boy )and i really hope he looks like one (he doesnt have papers )and not a pit bull type :huh:

This is interesting - one of the banned UK breeds is the Japanese Tosa. Take a look at this video and make your own mind up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsyxpui6WV8&feature=player_embedded

I have a ridgeback x bullmastiff and she looks identical to this breed so it goes to show how hard it is for people to recognise a banned breed. I bet not many people would be able to spot a true Jap Tosa on the streets.

Part of the problem with pictures of pitbulls and lots of other breeds which aren't in this country is that when you clip their ears it takes away one feature for identifying what sort of dog it is.

If you take a perfectly happy, friendly and normal bull breed and clip their ears then you have what looks like a fighting dog and people will assume it is dangerous, even if there's no other link.

I'm SO glad that this is illegal in this country. It's barbaric and if there's no good reason for it to be done then the dog should not be put through it.

Back in the very early 90s I saw a bloke crop his 4 month old pitbull terriers ears with a craft knife whilst his two mates held her down, it was terrible.

They regularly clip the ears of hunting dogs in Turkey. Often done with a pair of scissors, a needle and thread and not much else. I asked a turk why they did this and they believe it makes the dog run faster, incredible. Personally I think dogs should be left as nature intended ie: with ears and tails, with the exception of neutering/spaying of course.

I think that there are some people that don't realise pitt - and pitt types are illegal - however, there are loads that do know it, and are blatently breeding and advertising them. I wish the law spent time, reviewing the adverts on the internet sites and free-ads where they are advertised under well known 'hidden' names - like sporting dogs and such. (sport my foot).

My belief is that the only way forward is a Dog Passport. Very similar to a horse passport. It can be enforced - it should be mandatory that every breeder issues one to a new owner with their dog. This MUST include a microchip number and registration number where the initial breeder is held - (maybe some way that could be linked up with a database held at the kennel club - even though this is for all dogs, not just pedigrees). Then the breeder is logged forever, against the dog. All future vaccinations, vet treatment etc., MUST be recorded on the Dog Passport, as do behavioural assessments, police incidents, Good Citizen qualifications EVERYTHING.
Insurance companies could work with this scheme and offer reduce policies for the first 5 years. Once the public know they cannot legally buy a dog without a passport - the word will filter through within 6 years time - which should ensure that nobody can be ignorant that its required. This would reduce puppy farming - as they would have to record where the dog was also born - (eg plastic bucket in a shed in wales doesn't have quite the right ring to it).

Price paid and vet treatment must be available to be recorded too.

The thing that keeps me spurred on that things can change is this.

One guy loved Dobermann. However, he saw how they were docked and wanted an undocked dobermann. Nobody would sell him one. He didn't want his dog to start off its life with fear and pain of humans, let alone be scarred for life - purely for man's vanity. So he decided to change the law. Only a few years later - DOCKING IS ILLEGAL. This change was instigated by just one man - deciding that something was wrong, and he wanted to make a difference.

Everyone has the ability to make changes for the better - it takes a strong person to take up the challenge

I cant microchip 1 of my dogs because I have no transport and no bus driver as far Ive tried 4 times will not let him on! My others are all chipped

I cant microchip 1 of my dogs because I have no transport and no bus driver as far Ive tried 4 times will not let him on! My others are all chipped
What??! That's not right - dogs are allowed on buses! :rant:
What type of dog is it??
How do you get it to a vet in general?

What would one do if one suspected that they knew of said breed? if it got reported to RSPCA, would it be acted on? If found to be pitt or Xpitt, would it be destroyed?

This plea is really to ask people to think of ways how we as a responsible pet loving community can STOP idiots breeding these dogs. Not penalise and kill the pitts already out there - though there shouldn't be any. The last thing I would want to do is cause problems for anyone owning and responsibly looking after a pit 'type' dog.

Some people will have bought them un-knowingly - and will be looking after them, and hopefully having their dogs castrated to ensure there are no off-springs of this type being produced.

However, if anyone hears or knows of someone actively breeding the dogs - then they should be reported to the RSPCA inspectors an ask for advise what to do.

Every country in the world - every City in our country - has dog fighting going on undeer-cover. We - the people who love Sheffield and South Yorkshire should try to ensure that our area isn't one of the bad ones, and one that goes 'under the radar'. Where ever dog fighting is going on - normal innocent dogs and cats are stolen to be used as bait - almost certain drug dealing and other under-handed illegal crimes are going on - they are the same sorts that collate to do the same evil things.

So - lets stop it at source an educate.

well said rain !!!!!!!!!!!

I think that there are some people that don't realise pitt - and pitt types are illegal - however, there are loads that do know it, and are blatently breeding and advertising them. I wish the law spent time, reviewing the adverts on the internet sites and free-ads where they are advertised under well known 'hidden' names - like sporting dogs and such. (sport my foot).

My belief is that the only way forward is a Dog Passport. Very similar to a horse passport. It can be enforced - it should be mandatory that every breeder issues one to a new owner with their dog. This MUST include a microchip number and registration number where the initial breeder is held - (maybe some way that could be linked up with a database held at the kennel club - even though this is for all dogs, not just pedigrees). Then the breeder is logged forever, against the dog. All future vaccinations, vet treatment etc., MUST be recorded on the Dog Passport, as do behavioural assessments, police incidents, Good Citizen qualifications EVERYTHING.
Insurance companies could work with this scheme and offer reduce policies for the first 5 years. Once the public know they cannot legally buy a dog without a passport - the word will filter through within 6 years time - which should ensure that nobody can be ignorant that its required. This would reduce puppy farming - as they would have to record where the dog was also born - (eg plastic bucket in a shed in wales doesn't have quite the right ring to it).

Price paid and vet treatment must be available to be recorded too.



This is not strictly true, the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 prohibits only the 4 dogs I listed before. 'Pitt Types' are not illegal as such. However, dangerous dogs are classified by type and not be breed label. This means that whether a dog is considered dangerous and therefore prohibited will depend on a judgement about its physical characteristics and whether they match one of the prohibited breeds. This assessment is made by a court, however it is rarely done in reality.
If anyone needs anymore info on this act and what it involves please visit:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/dogs.htm

On your other note about the passport scheme I completely agree. There should be more stringent rules about breeding and registering dogs regardless as to whether they are pedigree's. If there was a direct charge to the breeder for the passport scheme and a fine if not adhered to then it might encourage more people to neuter/spay their dogs rather than using them as a tool to make a few quid.
How this scheme would be policed though is another matter. The horse passport scheme is administered very poorly. You can apply for a passport on the same day as the horse is going through an auction so it's hardly a documented history of the animals health or background.

just been reading an article about pits etc and one segment really shocked me! here goes:

If a Stafford for example doesn’t fit the Kennel Club breed standard for a Stafford quite as well as it does the ADBA standard for an APBT then its quite possible a court will find the dog to be pit bull type.

i find this so wrong surely there is more that can be done to sort the laws.

i got the segment from here : http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/641/uk-do-you-know-what-a-pit-bull-is/

I have the breed description from when i went on a training course down at Battersea.

I went around the section there - of the dogs under assessment. I was with a few people from rescue and it was really shocking. Pitts were a small portion there - but even worse - the ones that i would hav said were part pitt - weren't - and the ones that I thought weren't were.

So - it shows how an uneducated thought - escalates.
One thing that struck me was that usually they have no neck. Often we go on the slanty eye - again - wrong.
I ought to try to get the document on-line - but it would take a bit of typing up.
I know someone who trains people in pitt assessment.

The biggest thing that i did learn was that NOBODY CAN SAY WHAT IS A PITT AND WHAT ISN'T A PITT UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN PROPERLY TRAINED AS AN ASSESSOR.

This is really crucial in the destruction of these dogs. If they aren't qualifieid they cannot enforce the destruction. MMmmmmmm.

We are trying to get more bull qualifieid behaviourists trained up in what is and what isn't - but its a slow process

keep chipping away tho - and changes will be made

I have the breed description from when i went on a training course down at Battersea.

I went around the section there - of the dogs under assessment. I was with a few people from rescue and it was really shocking. Pitts were a small portion there - but even worse - the ones that i would hav said were part pitt - weren't - and the ones that I thought weren't were.

So - it shows how an uneducated thought - escalates.
One thing that struck me was that usually they have no neck. Often we go on the slanty eye - again - wrong.
I ought to try to get the document on-line - but it would take a bit of typing up.
I know someone who trains people in pitt assessment.

The biggest thing that i did learn was that NOBODY CAN SAY WHAT IS A PITT AND WHAT ISN'T A PITT UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN PROPERLY TRAINED AS AN ASSESSOR.

This is really crucial in the destruction of these dogs. If they aren't qualifieid they cannot enforce the destruction. MMmmmmmm.

We are trying to get more bull qualifieid behaviourists trained up in what is and what isn't - but its a slow process

keep chipping away tho - and changes will be made

This is what worries me in the pounds around the country who is deciding which dogs live and which dogs die :confused:. How qualified are these people? Are dogs being properly euthanised and who is doing it? Should they be doing it?

Their is so much to consider it is frightening to think that dogs out there are being bred for status symbols and the harm they can cause and that so many people think themselves to be above the law and even boastful about it.
I urge anyone who knows about people breeding pitbulls to do something about it these beautful dogs do not deserve the life that most likely awaits them :roll:

This is what worries me in the pounds around the country who is deciding which dogs live and which dogs die :confused:. How qualified are these people? Are dogs being properly euthanised and who is doing it? Should they be doing it?
That is a very good question, I hope that someone will be along to answer it!
these beautful dogs do not deserve the life that most likely awaits them :roll:
Nor do they deserve the premature death that inevitably awaits them, how can breeders look into the eyes of an innocent puppy bred by them knowing that eventually it is likely to either be used and ruined or pts as it reaches maturity, never to know a full happy life filled with the love that it should have.

Nor do they deserve the premature death that inevitably awaits them, how can breeders look into the eyes of an innocent puppy bred by them knowing that eventually it is likely to either be used and ruined or pts as it reaches maturity, never to know a full happy life filled with the love that it should have.

You have said exactly what i was trying to say thank you!!

You're so right. This quiz highlight just how difficult it is to tell:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


edit: it took me 5 tries, and I thought I would be good at that... :suspect:


I got him second guess.

first time hehe sooo proud

i got first time