If Michael Jackson had skin treatment to make him lighter, wouldn't black people feel insulted by the fact he wasnt happy being a black man. No one can take away the fact he was a very talented man, but reading the black community are mourning his death as are lots of people I wonder how they feel about the fact he may have wanted to be white

If Michael Jackson had skin treatment to make him lighter, wouldn't black people feel insulted by the fact he wasnt happy being a black man. No one can take away the fact he was a very talented man, but reading the black community are mourning his death as are lots of people I wonder how they feel about the fact he may have wanted to be white

There was an iteresting article in yesterday's Guardian by Gary Younge about this.

To some extent his transformation provided no great mystery within the black community. Skin-whitening creams and hair-straightening gels have been part of our cosmetic lives for almost as long as dark skin and curly hair have been denigrated. And so long as whiteness has carried a premium, the notion that some black people might actively seek it was no shock either.

He was born black, but he didn't die white. Instead, he took on the *characteristics of a transracial *experiment, a combination of attributes that had never before been seen *collected in one human being. If ever there was a candidate to tick the box "other" on the racial categories of forms, it was Jackson.

Younge's conclusion is that Jackson's relationship to black America was ' often strained but never broken.'

ETA: Link to the whole article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-black-superstar-icon

I’m no expert but I did study psychology sometime ago. On the subject of lying, there are certain traits we find hard to mask. We can also pickup on these present in those we are close too without realising. While watching an interview with Jackson at the point where he says he has vitiligo, he does change his expression and gives one of the most common “lying” traits there is.

I’m not saying its categorical, but, vitiligo is a genetic disorder, it would be likely one or some of his siblings would show similar signs of the disease. That coupled with his addiction to cosmetic surgery and that he was obviously a troubled and damage adult. I would take the vitiligo story with a pinch of salt.

This does not detract from his genius as an artist and we can all empathise with not wishing to tell the truth on a very personal subject.

Does anyone actually believe he had vitiligo? I read somewhere else that he claimed to have had only two operations on his face.

If Michael Jackson had skin treatment to make him lighter, wouldn't black people feel insulted by the fact he wasnt happy being a black man. No one can take away the fact he was a very talented man, but reading the black community are mourning his death as are lots of people I wonder how they feel about the fact he may have wanted to be white

I was talking to a firend about jackos skin thing last night. My opinion is that he wasnt so much trying to turn white because he was unhappy about being black. I just think he wanted to be as different from his dad as he could possibly be as his dad was a cruel man by all accounts and robbed michael and his brothers of their childhood.

If Michael Jackson had skin treatment to make him lighter, wouldn't black people feel insulted by the fact he wasnt happy being a black man. No one can take away the fact he was a very talented man, but reading the black community are mourning his death as are lots of people I wonder how they feel about the fact he may have wanted to be white

I can see why it would make black Americans feel angry at a western society that makes people want to live up to an ideal of beauty based on white european images and being insulted by popular culture, but I can't see why they would feel anything but sorry for Jacko.

he claimed to have had only two operations on his face.

That'd be about right.

The top half, followed by the bottom half:D

That'd be about right.

The top half, followed by the bottom half:D

:hihi:

I find this whole issue - the racial element on top of the surgery element - ridiculously interesting.

I've got very curly hair and people used to say I had an afro. I could never understand why all the black women I saw had hair that was straighter than straight. It wasn't until I saw pictures of Jimi Hendrix that I realised what an afro should actually look like :hihi: (Yes, it was a sheltered upbringing).

I used to work with a man who really did have vitiligo. His face was a patchwork of dark and light areas in a completely random pattern. If the man I knew showed a typical case of vitiligo, then it was nothing like Jackson's all over increasing paleness.
I am aware people react differently to diseases etc but that is just my take on it.

I used to work with a man who really did have vitiligo. His face was a patchwork of dark and light areas in a completely random pattern. If the man I knew showed a typical case of vitiligo, then it was nothing like Jackson's all over increasing paleness.
I am aware people react differently to diseases etc but that is just my take on it.

Bob Monkhouse had vitiligo, and he used sunbeds to darken the areas of skin with normal pigmentation, and then used some sort of pan cake or fake tan to colour-in the pigment-less areas. (hence the rather jordan-esque orange appearance he had.)

It *is* possible that MJ did use bleaching agents, to strip the pigmentation from the darker areas, in the hope it would even out the skin tones. You can buy all sorts of "beauty" preparations to bleach your dark skin. (It is also more than feasible that his alleged Body Dysmorphic Disorder caused him to use bleaching agents, regardless...?)

As someone has mentioned above, lighter skin in Afro-Caribbean and Indian sub continent peoples is prized, as supposedly being "more lovely" instead of allowing people to love the skin they are in as beautiful, whatever depth of "tan" it naturally has.

ps, I saw, in an article, yesterday, about MJ, an accompanying photo of his brother, Randy (?) and I was thinking that this was probably very much like what MJ would have looked like had he not messed about with his looks with all the surgeries.

http://www.getback.com/gallery/the-twisted-jackson-family-tree/2986631/2#image_top

Latoya has messed her face up nearly as badly as Michael's was, (And oddly, looks very similar to MJ's look http://www.getback.com/gallery/the-twisted-jackson-family-tree/2986631/5#image_top )

He was a very talented singer-songwriter, and performer, there's no doubt about that, but his mind was so messed up.

Didn't there used to be a black kid who sang with his brothers called Michael Jackson too?

Didn't there used to be a black kid who sang with his brothers called Michael Jackson too?

Sadly, yes there used to be a quip going round, about MJ, a good 10/ 15 years or more ago which went:-

"America... Where a poor black lad can grow up to be a rich white woman!"

(back then, I also remember someone commenting "MJ:- is he trying to turn himself into Diana Ross, or something?" :o:o)

I just wondered how a black person would feel about a black person wanting to appear white, if this is what he did, I dont know if he did or not, and its not going to matter now anyway.

There are plenty of photos from back in the day that suggest he did have vitiligo, on his face, nack, arms, hands, and who knows where else. For a while it looks like he used heavy-duty make-up to cover it up, resulting in a darker-than-normal skintone. But it seems like he eventually opted for the permanent treatment that many with the severe forms of the condition undergo.

It's got little to do with a black man wanting to be white, IMHO, rather with a man, already riddled with other psychological problems, trying to deal with a difficult physical condition as best as he could......

What I find curious, is that his children appear to be white.

Even if he did have vitiligo, surely his genetic make-up would remain the same..?

What I find curious, is that his children appear to be white.

Even if he did have vitiligo, surely his genetic make-up would remain the same..?

Don't blame it on vitiligo, don't blame it on the suntan, don't blame it on sunshine blame it on the boogie.

What is the difference between Sir Alex Ferguson and Michael Jackson?











Fergie will be playing Giggs this August.





He was a great entertainer, it was a pity he was immature in other areas of life.

What I find curious, is that his children appear to be white.

Even if he did have vitiligo, surely his genetic make-up would remain the same..?

how is it curious?

Their mother is a white woman, so the "african" genes are going to be diluted (And we don't know what white heritage is in MJ's family lineage from years ago) so it's perfectly feasible for them not to look entirely "black".

My aunt and her sister are half-Caribbean, and aren't really "dark" afro-looking, despite their father being really dark "plummy" black.

(to visualise them, they are a sort of Shirley Bassey, tan/ mixed race colouring and in looks, although my aunt's sister looks somewhat more "white" than my aunt)

If Michael Jackson had skin treatment to make him lighter, wouldn't black people feel insulted by the fact he wasnt happy being a black man. No one can take away the fact he was a very talented man, but reading the black community are mourning his death as are lots of people I wonder how they feel about the fact he may have wanted to be white

A lot of people 'hate' their white skin and use sunbeds and fake tan to darken it, any whities offended?

There was a Vitiligo sufferer on the radio just now saying a lot of Jackson's behaviour was very typical of sufferers, including the facial surgery (apparently African features look odd when the skin lightens). She also said the condition often manifests itself after stressful events so the fact other members of his family don't appear to have it doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Only approx 10% of suffers have relatives similarly afflicted - although a friend pointed out a photo of MJ's eldest son, apparently with some patching on his hand, so who knows whether or not he too has it. But yeah, the hats, masks, umbrellas, long clothes and sun glasses all help many vit sufferers live 'normal' lives without excessive sun exposure. The surgery thing hadn't occurred to me, but it makes sense!

A lot of people 'hate' their white skin and use sunbeds and fake tan to darken it, any whities offended?

Too true! :thumbsup:

My sister has had vitiligo since she was 4 years old, she is now 50. She has never heard of an "operation" to make skin tone more even, in fact she has never been offered any type of treatment at all. She has patches all over her body which move around and manifest themselves in different places all the time.
No one in the family before her has ever had it and no one since has had it.

What I find curious, is that his children appear to be white.

Even if he did have vitiligo, surely his genetic make-up would remain the same..?

It never ceases to amaze me how so people have happily suspend disbelief in the sad and sorry case of MJ.
All 3 of his children are white and that's because they're not biologically his. The mother of 2 of them, Debbie Rowe, is quoted as saying 'Michael knows the truth. He has to come clean'. He then bought her silence, but for how much longer?
As for the vitiligo, make your own minds up.

I can't see why the other Michael Jackson thread became closed, as I think the jury's still out on his lifestyle and death (as it were), and it does still remain headline news.

And yet this thread is still allowed. To me, it almost seems like the racial issues of an untimely death are permitable over and above all other issues, on this forum. Or have I just missed a few unruly and unsavoury posts on the former Michael Jackson thread?

Disappointing, nevertheless.

how is it curious?

Their mother is a white woman, so the "african" genes are going to be diluted (And we don't know what white heritage is in MJ's family lineage from years ago) so it's perfectly feasible for them not to look entirely "black".

My aunt and her sister are half-Caribbean, and aren't really "dark" afro-looking, despite their father being really dark "plummy" black.

(to visualise them, they are a sort of Shirley Bassey, tan/ mixed race colouring and in looks, although my aunt's sister looks somewhat more "white" than my aunt)


Oh, come on PT, you cannot honestly believe they are his blood children??!??!?!

Oh, come on PT, you cannot honestly believe they are his blood children??!??!?!

I don't know what the truth is... Like millions of other people, I was there neither at the conception nor the birth.

how is it curious?

Their mother is a white woman, so the "african" genes are going to be diluted (And we don't know what white heritage is in MJ's family lineage from years ago) so it's perfectly feasible for them not to look entirely "black".

My aunt and her sister are half-Caribbean, and aren't really "dark" afro-looking, despite their father being really dark "plummy" black.

(to visualise them, they are a sort of Shirley Bassey, tan/ mixed race colouring and in looks, although my aunt's sister looks somewhat more "white" than my aunt)


Lol I'm not so old that I can't remember doing genetics in Biology at school!

I can recall an instance of a couple having twins - 1 was black, 1 was white, so of course genes can be carried in weird and wonderful ways sometimes.

But to have 3 children, by 2 different mothers, who ALL appear caucasian - well, I'd love to know the odds of that happening.

Seems like the Express are running with the same thoughts on their front page today too..

It seems that nobody has a clue about vitiligo!

PT - sunbeds would not darken the vitiligo - it never gets darker in the sun, or on sunbeds - it just goes red as there is no protection from the rays. He did use a hell of a lot of fake tan though!

I never believed Michael Jackson had vitiligo either, until after he died and I was looking at photos and saw that he did have patches all over his face and arms etc.

You CAN make all of your skin white with a drug called monobenzone. Woggle - as the form of vitiligo which he had spreads, he would probably end up with white skin eventually, he would never be able to get black skin again.

Minimo - there are a few different types of vitiligo. It's a simple case of losing pigment/melanin in the skin. Michael had the type which spreads all over the body in all different places. I have 'segmental' vitiligo which means it's only on one side of my body, I'm lucky as it doesn't spread and is actually filling in with pigment a little bit now but it is really patchy and I hate it so much!!

Nazo - you're right, stressful events can bring on the vitiligo, it is an auto immune condition, and can be brought on by emotional and physical stress. Mine came along after I had a bout of impetigo when I was two.

There is no cure! You can have all different types of treatments, but none are guaranteed to work. I'm really passionate about it at the mo because I'm researching it so much, sorry to go but I love to clear up all the confusion people have about vitiligo!

It seems that nobody has a clue about vitiligo!

PT - sunbeds would not darken the vitiligo - it never gets darker in the sun, or on sunbeds - it just goes red as there is no protection from the rays. He did use a hell of a lot of fake tan though!

I never believed Michael Jackson had vitiligo either, until after he died and I was looking at photos and saw that he did have patches all over his face and arms etc.

You CAN make all of your skin white with a drug called monobenzone.

I do have enough of a clue about vitiligo. I know that the "de-pigmented" patches certainly won't tan, as the point is that the melanin is missing.

This was my point about the late Bob Monkhouse, with his orange "permatan" look thing.

As I said in my early post on this thread:- To make himself appear the same shade all over, and to hide the patchiness, Monkhouse tanned the pigmented area, and then covered the de-pigmented area with fake tan, which gave him the even skin tone, even if it was a "permatan".

Some people opt for coverage by tans or cosmetics, others go for bleaching. It sounds like MJ went for the bleaching route.

As MJ also had Lupus, another autoimmune condition, that often does not react well to exposure to sunlight, It sounds like the bleaching route was the more sensible option, rather than the tanning route. It may also have gone some way to explaining why he used masks and veils outdoors, and was perceived as being weird when he did so.

I think itgoes without saying he was always overly economical with the truth when it came to what treatments/surgeries he'd had over the years but the vitiligo is pretty ovbious. If you look at any photo from the 80's, he's absolutely caked in makeup (enough to get it all over his clothes/mics etc too), presumably to even out his skin tone.

Can see the patches in photos without though:
Sweated off the cover up (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/turpz/vitiligo3tk3.jpg)
Before makeup (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/floetic_justice/tdcauvitiligo5.jpg)