After the latest news reports, it looks as though the bombers where indeed British born. They where part of our community and could have lived down any of our streets.

Does this change anything? Are there lessons to be learnt from this? Does this prove there are militant Muslim clerics out there preaching hate to impressionable people?

Here is an extract from the ‘Your reaction’ part of the BBC News site:

The fact that the bombers are believed to have been born in the UK, demonstrates that terrorism is not a result of a lack of freedom, opportunity, living in poverty, and all the other "root causes" that are touted each time there is an attack. The root cause of terrorism, quite simply, is hate. The root cause of the hate in regards to terrorism is an ideological belief in a system of moral extremes that preaches and rewards violence perpetuated by hate. Hate thrives in both affluent and impoverished peoples and nations. The only thing moral extremism needs to flourish is an open and accepting ear, and the romanticization of a cause as just and noble.
Severus, Montreal, Canada

I think this does change everything. We all took comfort in believing these people where from another country where religious hate is acceptable and more common place, that somehow they where not like us. Now they are fellow British Citizens, who care for nothing but to kill and terrorise ANYONE who doesn’t subscribe to their twisted belief system.

Yeah its more worrying!

It shows that people in this country or teaching racial hatred to the extent that they will blow up themselves and thier fellow countrymen. All for the sake of an ideal which will never come true!

The same thing happened in Oklahoma, the bomber was a local white guy who had lived there all his life, people couldn't understand it, they were convinced he would be a foreigner.

I can't believe that people who were born and bred here don't think anything about killing their fellow Britons. It's terrible.

I read that they were trained at a secret suicide bomber training camp somewhere in Britain and apparently there is another 200 at this camp who (when the qualify or whatever they do), they will to want to blow stuff and people up too. Whether this is true or not I don't know. ! Scary !

Where did you read this disturbing news?

I think it was the sun (fair enough they do exagerate), but its still scary to think that it could be happening.

I also read something like this in the papers... that there are at least 200 or alot more out there... its really scary to know that they are indeed british born & bred...

It is a shame that they're lead to believe its ok to kill... because where they will end up is paradise! they're being brainwashed...

I totally agree angel05 - how can killing loads of people guarantee you a place in paradise - complete lunatics if you ask me

No one is above suspicion now. :suspect: however you spell it :D

Originally posted by tots
I think it was the sun (fair enough they do exagerate), but its still scary to think that it could be happening.
yes its very disturbing but I am sure that the decent folk of the U.K will do thier uppermost to weed out these 'camps of evil'

Hopefully we will weed them out yes. But it's coming to something when you have to think of your safety before gettin on a bus or train, it just makes me so mad :rant:

Originally posted by tots
Hopefully we will weed them out yes. But it's coming to something when you have to think of your safety before gettin on a bus or train, it just makes me so mad :rant:

hehe, I stopped travelling on buses almost a year ago for fear of my life, but because of chavs, gutter-snipes & pondlife that use them as a form of leisure centre :roll: :hihi:

Originally posted by tots
I totally agree angel05 - how can killing loads of people guarantee you a place in paradise - complete lunatics if you ask me

Along with a past life full of sex! Its totally mad... but i guess some people will believe anything... Like cults etc... Leaders are total brainwashers... Its a sad way to live life!

Theres no secret bases in britain, thats mad. These guys would have popped off to pakistan or afganistan to earn their tricks of the trade ("dont just use explosives...throw some nails and bolts in there to bag extra infidels")

Amazed their folks didnt suspect anything. If you breed a suicide bomber...someone's dropped the ball somewhere. But these guys are not in any way representative.... I imagine most ordinary muslims look at these nutters as islamic versions of Harold Shipman.

Originally posted by skny
Theres no secret bases in britain, thats mad. These guys would have popped off to pakistan or afganistan to earn their tricks of the trade ("dont just use explosives...throw some nails and bolts in there to bag extra infidels")

Amazed their folks didnt suspect anything. If you breed a suicide bomber...someone's dropped the ball somewhere. But these guys are not in any way representative.... I imagine most ordinary muslims look at these nutters as islamic versions of Harold Shipman. i agree about there bieng no secret base,but who knows what goes on behind closed doors over here?

If we do have secret training camps in Britain then it is up to the decent muslims themselves to reveal where they are to the authorities. The decent majority have the most to lose, as many of them left their own countries because of poverty and misery imposed upon them by fundamentalist rule.

Originally posted by tots
I think it was the sun (fair enough they do exagerate), but its still scary to think that it could be happening.

Ah The Sun newspaper. Must be true then! :suspect:

The problem is that we don't need training camps to teach people how to do this.

A few years ago there was a 'loner' who carried out racist and homophobic bombings in London. He was totally self taught in the construction and use of bombs.

Anyone can make a bomb, provided they can get hold of the explosives. It's not difficult - you nmight have to have some sophistication if you don't wnat to be there when it goes off but if you're willing to blow yourself up then you can be much cruder.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
The problem is that we don't need training camps to teach people how to do this.

A few years ago there was a 'loner' who carried out racist and homophobic bombings in London. He was totally self taught in the construction and use of bombs.

Anyone can make a bomb, provided they can get hold of the explosives. It's not difficult - you nmight have to have some sophistication if you don't wnat to be there when it goes off but if you're willing to blow yourself up then you can be much cruder.

Joe thats true joe,and there is enough info on the net if any one is determined enough to carry out an attack

Originally posted by depoix
thats true joe,and there is enough info on the net if any one is determined enough to carry out an attack

Indeed...although a friend of mine with explosives and demolition experience mentioned once that if some of the recipes were followed you might blow yousrelf up LONG before anyone else. :)

I suppose the whole thing comes back to disaffection. Here we had disaffection harnessed by fundamentalists for their cause; at Columbine, Oklahoma, Hungerford and the bombings in London I mentioned - that disaffection simply wasn't picked up and harnessed to a cause.

Joe

The families of the bombers say that they had no idea what they were doing. Makes you wonder doesn't it. The "regular guy" that you sat next to on the bus today could be someone like that!! it's scary........

The bombers hated everything about this country apart from its privileges, its benefits and its freedoms. They may have carried British passports, but they were not British by allegiance. They had no loyalty or love for this place.:rant:

Originally posted by JoePritchard

A few years ago there was a 'loner' who carried out racist and homophobic bombings in London. He was totally self taught in the construction and use of bombs.


That was David John Copeland (born May 15, 1976). He is a former member of the British neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement who became known as the "London nailbomber" after a 12-day bombing campaign in April 1999 aimed at London's black, Asian, and gay communities.

Over three successive weekends, Copeland placed homemade nail bombs, each containing up to 1,500 four-inch nails, outside a supermarket in Electric Avenue, Brixton, an area of south London with a large black population; in Brick Lane in the east end of London, which has a large Asian community; and in the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho's Old Compton Street, the heart of London's gay community. No warnings were given before the bombs exploded.

The attacks claimed three lives, all in the Admiral Duncan pub bombing. Andrea Dykes, 27, who was four months pregnant with her first child, died along with her friends and hosts for the evening, Nick Moore, 31, and John Light, 32, who was to be the baby's godfather. Andrea's husband, Julian Dykes, was seriously injured. The four friends from Essex had met up in the Admiral Duncan to celebrate Andrea's pregnancy when the bomb exploded after being taped inside a sports bag and left near the bar. A total of 129 people were injured in the three attacks, with four of the victims losing limbs and 26 suffering serious burns.

He was convicted of murder on June 30, 2000, and received six life sentences.

To echo Jon, he may have been British, but he was not British by allegiance. He clearly had no loyalty or love for this place.

May I just point out that these are not the first British-born bombers in London ~ many of the IRA bombers, even though most of them didn't come from the British mainland, actually came from Northern Ireland, and a few were born and bred on the British mainland.

The only thing that's likely to have changed is that Londoners will be less complacent about things ~ since the IRA bombing campaign ended in the mid 1990s, the so-called ring of steel (it was actually a ring of plastic bollards) which was set up after the Bishopsgate bombing became unmanned, and now marks the perimeter for the congestion charge.

Londoners have been through all this before on several occasions, and probably have to endure it again sometime in the future when everyone becomes less vigilant ~ it could take a while though.

The one thing I can say about Londoners is that they always come back even stronger than they were before....and that goes back to how things were during the Blitz in WW2!

:)

Originally posted by JoeP
The problem is that we don't need training camps to teach people how to do this.

A few years ago there was a 'loner' who carried out racist and homophobic bombings in London. He was totally self taught in the construction and use of bombs.

Anyone can make a bomb, provided they can get hold of the explosives. It's not difficult - you nmight have to have some sophistication if you don't wnat to be there when it goes off but if you're willing to blow yourself up then you can be much cruder.

Joe

indeed - acetone peroxide is ridiculously easy to make....

an accurate timer is pretty much a bagatelle also, providing you can set a digital clock.

Were they patsies - told to plant bombs, unaware they would be detonated an hour earlier than they thought - or is this an impossibility. They may not have been suicide bombers, even if they were bombers.

anyone with a bit of nous and engineering skills could develop a cruise missile within a few months, should they want to - from prefabricated off the shelf components.