Hi-

My house is on the market with an estate agent agent and the other day a viewer turned up and it was a friend of mine.

We got talking and I to cut a long story short we said that it would be better if we sold the house privately and take the property out of the hands of the estate agents thus saving money. A saving we would split.

What are the implications of this?????

My contract says I can cancel our agreement giving 14days written notice but there also seems to be a six month clause saying in the event of a sale the selling fee would be due......


Should I give my notice in???
Should I sell my house through them??

What can I do - advice required. It's worth a couple of grand....


(do estate agents check property sales of cancelled contracts after contracts have ended to re-claim their fee???)

Hi

Im knackered so my memory is a bit hazy.

There is a clause used by at least one of the local agents here which is completely frowned upon by the Concumers Association and the NAEAs regarding sole selling rights.

I cant recall the exact wording - perhaps cocky can help :)

Essentially if you sign up to them and your dad then buys the house they WILL legally take you to court to get their fee.

As I said its a stinker and utterly unfair.
It is NOT used by agents in other parts of the country.
Kind of tells you a thing or two about our local outfits doesnt it?
These are the kind of people you are dealing with in Sheffield.

However I have to say if your mate called round after seeing the details at the agents you may be on a murky ground legally.

Naturally if you can find a 20 year old pic of the two of you and perhaps say his wife contacted the agent just after you had been chatting to him you would be OK.

Cheers

d

PS In case cocky cant help try this thread:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38366

If your friends turned up thanks to an appointment made through the agents you won't have a leg to stand on.

Sorry :(

Well if you reimburse the estate agent for their time and expense I would think that is quite fair.

However, if you think that you can appoint them and then just sack them without a by or leave just because a relative / friend buys it then your living in a strange world.

take it off the market.
lie low for a month or two and make the sale quietly.

If you're actually worried about a clause that limits what you can do, then either wait it out, or check with a solicitor whether it's a legal stipulation.
You can write any old nonsense you like into a contract, but it doesn't mean that it's legally binding.

its not just agreeing the sale to someone privatley
but do you know how to progress the sale through to completion
are you happy to call the solicitors chasing for searches etc and mortgage companies chasing mortgage offers dealing with retentions etc you might think it will save you some money by splitting the fee but in the long run it might cost you more

Originally posted by greensheff
its not just agreeing the sale to someone privatley
but do you know how to progress the sale through to completion
are you happy to call the solicitors chasing for searches etc and mortgage companies chasing mortgage offers dealing with retentions etc you might think it will save you some money by splitting the fee but in the long run it might cost you more

1 party to sort out their own mortgage.
Both parties to instruct their own solicitor (one doesn't have much to do, the other has to do the searches).

In my experience (and probably a lot of others) the estates agents don't help in the slightest once an offer has been accepted.

Originally posted by greensheff
its not just agreeing the sale to someone privatley
but do you know how to progress the sale through to completion
are you happy to call the solicitors chasing for searches etc and mortgage companies chasing mortgage offers dealing with retentions etc you might think it will save you some money by splitting the fee but in the long run it might cost you more

And you think estate agents do that?? Have you bought many houses?

As Cyclone says, once the sale is agreed thats usually the end of it as far as the agents are concerned.

It would seem that in Sheffield the biggest job estate agents have is musing over the figure to put on the bogus bids from the fictitious interested parties they have created after you've put your offer in ;)

Edit:
Suggestion: Get your friends to put in an offer, and see what happens. You could be quids in when you take the agents to court, given the above :D

If you seriously think that is happening you should report it to the Police. It is a simple fraud, as it would be if you got your friends to submit bids. People have gone to prison for this in the past.

I deal with agents (both commercial and residential) all the time and to be honest I just haven't ever seen this practice.

Vendors however? Blimey, there is another story!!!

Originally posted by Tony
If you seriously think that is happening you should report it to the Police. It is a simple fraud, as it would be if you got your friends to submit bids. People have gone to prison for this in the past.

I deal with agents (both commercial and residential) all the time and to be honest I just haven't ever seen this practice.

Vendors however? Blimey, there is another story!!!

it's pretty difficult to prove that they've lied about the highest bid to someone phoning up to make an offer isn't it.

So by the same token, why do people make the assumption that estate agents make up bids? Has anyone any real evidence for that? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I expect not.

Agents really have better things to do than spend time inventing stories and risking going to jail just for an extra twenty quid on the fee, which the negotiator doesn't get anyway!

Question:
Why isn't there a long line of disaffected low paid negotiators popping into West Bar to report the fraudulent business practices of their employers?

Answer:
Because like all conspiracies (well 99.999%) , it isn't true.

Originally posted by Tony
So by the same token, why do people make the assumption that estate agents make up bids? Has anyone any real evidence for that? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I expect not.

Agents really have better things to do than spend time inventing stories and risking going to jail just for an extra twenty quid on the fee, which the negotiator doesn't get anyway!

Question:
Why isn't there a long line of disaffected low paid negotiators popping into West Bar to report the fraudulent business practices of their employers?

Answer:
Because like all conspiracies (well 99.999%) , it isn't true.

you could be right.

But it seems odd that when you speak to the agent there have been 10 bids of x amount. But when you speak to the vendor when viewing the house, they say that they've only been informed of 2 bids and that they are lower than the ones mentioned to the buyer.

cyclone and saxon
you are presuming they have a completed chain and only 2 properties in it
i would like to see a novice try to progress a chain with 5 or 6 properties in it especially if the top of the chain are buying from a builder and they have deadlines to meet oh and anti money laundering and data protection spring to mind as well
and yes i have sold a lot of properties in my time so i guess i know what im talking about
any offer thats been made has to be sent in writing to a vendor within 24 hours and i think most agents will financially qualify offers before agreeing a sale
im guessing strix has offered on a property and someone has offered higher
and tony im with you i could write a book on vendors everyone seems to attack the agents but people forget an agent takes instructions from the vendors

cocky

Id still be interested for your thoughts on local agents using sole selling contracts in Sheffield?

Any comments?

Id be disappointed if this thread hadnt grabbed your attention after all :)

d

Originally posted by greensheff
cyclone and saxon
you are presuming they have a completed chain and only 2 properties in it
i would like to see a novice try to progress a chain with 5 or 6 properties in it especially if the top of the chain are buying from a builder and they have deadlines to meet oh and anti money laundering and data protection spring to mind as well
and yes i have sold a lot of properties in my time so i guess i know what im talking about
any offer thats been made has to be sent in writing to a vendor within 24 hours and i think most agents will financially qualify offers before agreeing a sale
im guessing strix has offered on a property and someone has offered higher
and tony im with you i could write a book on vendors everyone seems to attack the agents but people forget an agent takes instructions from the vendors

i'd be more suprised if the agents have any care about chains or do anything to help them complete. As far as I can tell (i'm no expert though) it's left down to the solicitors and the vendors to sort it out.

no cyclone thats why the vendor pays the agent and the sols to act on there behalf so they dont have to sort it out

Originally posted by greensheff
im guessing strix has offered on a property and someone has offered higher
No. I'm paraphrasing another user on here who is currently 'progressing' a complaint of this treatment after coincidentally meeting the purchaser of a property they were interested in at a party and exchanging information.

Sorry, but I have no idea how to find that post now


PS - Strix doesn't do business with estate agents. She does business with house owners and keeps the agents informed of the progress - to avoid such underhand dealings

Originally posted by greensheff
no cyclone thats why the vendor pays the agent and the sols to act on there behalf so they dont have to sort it out

i'm pretty sure that the agent had no contact with us or our solicitor after a sale had been agreed, I'll check with my friend who did the conveyancing though.

I've checked my contract and it is a sole selling agreement

looks like they've got me by the "balls" for 26 weeks.

I've can't even sell it to a family member without paying any fees in that time.

I would advise people to understand what they are reading, I asked at the time I was signing and was told that if I wanted to back out I had to give 14 days written notice. Nothing about the contract still being in force for 26 weeks regardless.

Oh well, we've decided to go through the estate agents any way. Lets make them work for their money.


Just one note on estate agents.

My friend put the offer in on my property with the estate agents at 11am this morning, I knew this and phoned about 12ish to see how my property was developing with viewing etc and was told that no offers had been made and that viewings were still taking place. Why is that?? Why wouldn't they tell me I had an offer on it???. It was the same person we both spoke to as I asked my friend who he'd spoken to.
I got the call about 4ish about the offer being placed. a good 5hrs later..... oh well.


Estate agents for you,

I must admit they were very good when the property first went on the market but when they had to re-market it after the firt buyers pulled out they didn't seem to want to know.


Keep your comments coming - seems as though everyone has had good / bad experiences with agents and it is always welcome for us novices selling / buying for the first time.

Originally posted by Strix
No. I'm paraphrasing another user on here who is currently 'progressing' a complaint of this treatment after coincidentally meeting the purchaser of a property they were interested in at a party and exchanging information.

Sorry, but I have no idea how to find that post now


Me me me me me me :)

And I have been advised to make no comment at this time :P

By the way although neil has been a bit murky/crooked with his dealings with agents, private sales and his mates it again highlights the sole selling scam that some of them use round here.

Im still disappointed that cocky hasnt come into this thread yet.

It is not in question that neil is being a little devious but I would be fascinated the hear the opinion of a "partner of Blundells" on the sole selling thing.

Cheers

d

I think agents should have more restrictive methods in place when allowing people to make an offer.

I can put in an offer an more or less any property I have viewed to 'up the price', my status isn't checked first.... so maybe I could just be pushing the price up...?

Is there anything to prevent this happening?

Remove it from agent and appoint another - repeat the process six times at weekly intervals using only no sale no fee agents.

Sell it to who u like on week 7 and let em fight to the death with clubs made from rolled up paper contracts over who is entitled to the commission because all will claim to have made the introduction.

PM me for a personal experience with a bent agent in which a bid was never put to the vendor to ensure the purchase went a certain way. - These people have no ethics and when i buy my houses i will only deal direct with the vendor or not at all.

If u were selling to me then i would insist on u sacking ur agent or u would lose the sale.

The incident which drove me to this was when i was required to front a 15k deposit in a bidding process.

Police have been investigating this for 6 years and have not yet worked out that corruption must have occured where only 2 of 3 punters were required to front a 15k deposit....... and bugger me if the third non deposit punter didnt close the deal.

Unfortunately we are dependent on S Y Police when batmans on hols.

Not having a leg to stand on is a phrase from a bygone era when the law used to work.

If the agents work hard enuff they will get a ccj against u for breach of contract in civil court. U will be in a position to settle it if it happens.

If you are moving house - where would they serve the summons ? (If they can be arsed to process it)

worst case scenarion the find u and prosecute and get a judgement all is not lost because -eureka - u can ignore the CCJ as well if u can live without credit or dis associate the address-

i know a guy who can paper his staircase he has that many.... he simply chooses to ignore the court orders. *****

******He is a rogue trader - a door to door conman living in Dronfield with initials B H - regularly profiteering from bogus adverts in local circulations and the police and trading standards do naff all.

PM me for his address,

On personal experience i wouldnt worry too much about the law - just do what it takes to get where you want to be-

Sole agency is just fine in Sheffield. there are not that many agents, so you're unlikely to get more viewers or offers.

The other thing that you all conveniently forget is that joint agency usually carries double fees.

If you want to pay more, then I'm sure a couple of agents might like to have a chat!

ole selling rights(BrE)

An arrangement by which an estate agent is given sole responsibility for negotiating the sale of a property, so that for the term of the appointment the agent acts to the exclusion of any other agent, as well as the principal. If an unconditional contract is executed with a purchaser during the period of the appointment (or, as a rule, after the expiration of the agreement, with a purchaser introduced by the agent during that period) the principal is liable to pay a fee, and any agreed expenses, to the estate agent (Estate Agents (Provision of Information) Regulations 1991; Dowling Kerr Ltd v Scott [1996] EGCS 177 ; Christie Owen & Davies plc v King (1998) SCLR 786 (Scot)). cf. sole agency. See exclusive right to sell(AmE).


Was your friend introduced to you by the agent, or did you know him before you took out the contract? If it's the latter (as it clearly is) then the sole selling clause is not enforceable.

Originally posted by neil26
I've checked my contract and it is a sole selling agreement

looks like they've got me by the "balls" for 26 weeks.

I've can't even sell it to a family member without paying any fees in that time.

I would advise people to understand what they are reading, I asked at the time I was signing and was told that if I wanted to back out I had to give 14 days written notice. Nothing about the contract still being in force for 26 weeks regardless.

Oh well, we've decided to go through the estate agents any way. Lets make them work for their money.


Just one note on estate agents.

My friend put the offer in on my property with the estate agents at 11am this morning, I knew this and phoned about 12ish to see how my property was developing with viewing etc and was told that no offers had been made and that viewings were still taking place. Why is that?? Why wouldn't they tell me I had an offer on it???. It was the same person we both spoke to as I asked my friend who he'd spoken to.
I got the call about 4ish about the offer being placed. a good 5hrs later..... oh well.


Estate agents for you,

I must admit they were very good when the property first went on the market but when they had to re-market it after the firt buyers pulled out they didn't seem to want to know.


Keep your comments coming - seems as though everyone has had good / bad experiences with agents and it is always welcome for us novices selling / buying for the first time.

Now I may be misreading this paraphrase, but to the exclusion of any other agent, as well as the principal says completely the opposite to me.

or, as a rule, after the expiration of the agreement, with a purchaser introduced by the agent during that period

And that says that if you sell it to someone not introduced by the agent, after the contract has finished, then they don't get your money.

Cyclone, you're misleading people. It doesn't say that all.

My reading is that...

A. You pay a fee during the contract agreement regardless of who introduces the purchaser.

B. You pay a fee if you sell to a purchaser after the agreement expires, if that purchaser was introduced by the agent.

Both of these are the polar opposites of what you have suggested.

Originally posted by Tony
Cyclone, you're misleading people. It doesn't say that all.

My reading is that...

A. You pay a fee during the contract agreement regardless of who introduces the purchaser.

B. You pay a fee if you sell to a purchaser after the agreement expires, if that purchaser was introduced by the agent.

Both of these are the polar opposites of what you have suggested.

ermm, i guess i'm not being clear then, i'm not trying to mislead people.

I agree with what you've just summarised, the agreement however is the duration that the agent is acting on the vendor's behalf, not whatever period is specified in the sole seller clause.

So, if an existing friend wishes to buy the house, they have no been introduced by the agent. Terminate the contract, which means the agreement has ended, and sell the house to them privately. No fees to pay.

We agree there! :)

Subject to the terms of the contract (from the above thread some seem to stipulate 26 weeks) then once that agreement has lapsed you can do what you want with a new 3rd party, but not one that the agent dealt with during the contract, including friends.

Originally posted by Tony
We agree there! :)

Subject to the terms of the contract (from the above thread some seem to stipulate 26 weeks) then once that agreement has lapsed you can do what you want with a new 3rd party, but not one that the agent dealt with during the contract, including friends.

i disagree there, but it's a minor quibble.

Just because the agent dealt with a friend, doesn't mean that they introduced them to you, you already knew them, and it's a reasonable assumption (which a magistrate i hope would make) that they would have become aware of the sale of the property without the intervention of the agent.

The contract doesn't extend to the duration of the 26 weeks though, as soon as the contract ends and the agent is not acting on your behalf you can sell the property (as long as not to someone the agent introduced).
Outside the 26 weeks, you could sell it to someone that the agent had introduced, although i doubt many people would wait for 6 months in order to avoid estate agent fees.

serve notice on the contract
then sell it privately
highly unlikely they will sue you - evidence will be an issue

i would say to people stop using estate agents - they really are good for nothings - i am a solicitor - i used to deal with agents day in day out and i think they are the scum of the earth - i don't care what anyone says - all they're interested in is their commission - i now refuse to take calls from agents - if clients want to know what's happening they'll phone me themselves -

start advertising through places like the forum - much easier and cheaper !!

be interesting to know what you charge your clients and what service you provide
i know when i sold mine i couldnt get to speak to my sols for love nor money he was either with a client or on the phone
so the only updates i got was from the agent

Originally posted by greensheff
be interesting to know what you charge your clients and what service you provide
i know when i sold mine i couldnt get to speak to my sols for love nor money he was either with a client or on the phone
so the only updates i got was from the agent

i have my solicitors mobile number and I know where he lives. Makes things much easier.

you must be a regular client doubt very much they give mobile numbers to all clients

Sole selling contracts are totally rediculous, I wish more people would read contracts and ask what they mean before signing up.
NEVER go with an agent who puts you on a sole selling contract.
NEVER go with an agent............

Originally posted by greensheff
you must be a regular client doubt very much they give mobile numbers to all clients

no, i went to school with him, has it's advantages.

what service do you offer caronp