I heard on the radio this morning that there will be signs over the motorway saying:

"Do not use mobile phone while driving"

As "while" can also mean "until" (especially round here!) does this mean that many people will leave their mobile phone use until they start driving?

They had them on today....

I think they should beam up on the boards:

"Oi you, stop using your phone"

That would probably work a lot better :P

The likelhood of this being relevant to any one driver will probably still be high, even after this new law :(

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
I heard on the radio this morning that there will be signs over the motorway saying:

"Do not use mobile phone while driving"

As "while" can also mean "until" (especially round here!) does this mean that many people will leave their mobile phone use until they start driving?

"While" can only mean "until" to the grammatically inferior. To those of us who, believe it or not, can live in Sheffield and still speak English, "while" means a period of time, i.e. do not use mobile phones during the period of time in which you drive.

This is one of the things that really really bugs me about the way you crazy people talk. It's really annoying when people say "I've got a lecture 2 while 3". I'm like, "What are you on about??", it doesn't make any sense. I'm sure South Yorkshire and particularly Sheffield is the only place they do this.

It must really confuse some of the students doing programing...

Originally posted by t020
"While" can only mean "until" to the grammatically inferior. To those of us who, believe it or not, can live in Sheffield and still speak English, "while" means a period of time, i.e. do not use mobile phones during the period of time in which you drive.

words change their meaning over time though alternative usage.

Originally posted by tinajones
words change their meaning over time though alternative usage.

Not when usage is confined to a relatively small amount of people in a region of Yorkshire who obviously have no grasp of the English language.

Originally posted by tinajones
words change their meaning over time though alternative usage.
But 'while' and 'until' are almost 2 totally opposite things.

Originally posted by t020
Not when usage is confined to a relatively small amount of people in a region of Yorkshire who obviously have no grasp of the English language. Maybe its you that talks funny.
Sheffielders are reckonised as talking a language called Sheffieldeeze which is why Sidla said he has only heard it in Sheffield.
2 while 3 is a phrase most Sheffielders would use Sidla, apart from them what migrate here from other areas of the country.
I can't imagine saying i have a meeting 2 until 3, just sounds ridiculous but i am not saying that term is incorrect.
We do talk different and Sheffielders have a different dirlect and can be sometimes mistakenly be seen as common rather than an accent.
Barnsley accent is very weird but to them perfectly normal and i guess that there accent has been in the area since the big bang and is certainly part of our and there history.

Not being a Sheffield native, I found "while" strange for ages, but have just slipped into it over the years and now it just feels a normal part of language.

I think the diversity of our language is a good thing - it's nice to hear regional oddities and accents. A Britain where everyone spoke the "Queen's English" would be dull indeed.

If anyone thinks Sheffield is bad, try living in Glasgow for a while!

Originally posted by t020
"While" can only mean "until" to the grammatically inferior. To those of us who, believe it or not, can live in Sheffield and still speak English, "while" means a period of time, i.e. do not use mobile phones during the period of time in which you drive.
However true this may be in your world in the real world the archaic meaning of while as a preposition is until. It seems that Sheffield, therefore, is a guardian of true English.

Meaning of the word while (http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0736491.html)

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
I can't imagine saying i have a meeting 2 until 3, just sounds ridiculous but i am not saying that term is incorrect.
It's sort of shortened to 2 'til 3. People who aren't so educated in English grammar might write "2 till 3".

Originally posted by max
However true this may be in your world in the real world the archaic meaning of while as a preposition is until. It seems that Sheffield, therefore, is a guardian of true English.

Meaning of the word while (http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0736491.html)

what do you have to say about that t020? :P

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
I heard on the radio this morning that there will be signs over the motorway saying:

"Do not use mobile phone while driving"

As "while" can also mean "until" (especially round here!) does this mean that many people will leave their mobile phone use until they start driving?

Shouldn't it be "WHILST"!!!

Originally posted by fnkysknky
what do you have to say about that t020? :P

I'd say it was utter rubbish and ask him to provide the FACTS. My facts are clearly stated in any English Grammar text books, and also the dictionary which would clearly state that "while" and "until" are completely different words.

I'm from Sheffield, I was born here. However, growing up in an area where there was only a small minority of people with strong Yorkshire dialects, I, thankfully, did not adopt the dialect either. "2 while 3" makes no sense at all. "2 until 3" is how it would be in written English, and as sidla says, this is usually abbreviated to " 'til" in spoken English.

Originally posted by t020
I'd say it was utter rubbish and ask him to provide the FACTS. My facts are clearly stated in any English Grammar text books, and also the dictionary which would clearly state that "while" and "until" are completely different words.

I'm from Sheffield, I was born here. However, growing up in an area where there was only a small minority of people with strong Yorkshire dialects, I, thankfully, did not adopt the dialect either. "2 while 3" makes no sense at all. "2 until 3" is how it would be in written English, and as sidla says, this is usually abbreviated to " 'til" in spoken English.

There's a page showing you are wrong and you still don't accept it, lol :loopy:

Originally posted by fnkysknky
There's a page showing you are wrong and you still don't accept it, lol :loopy:


Oh my God! Nowhere on that page does it say that "while" means "until". If you had any grasp of the English language, you would realise that using "while" instead of "until" makes no sense at all. Can you really not understand that? From the page chosen by max:

1. a period or interval of time: to wait a long while; He arrived a short while ago.
2. Archaic.a particular time or occasion.
3. all the while, at or during this time; all along: She realized all the while that the cake would fall.
4. worth one's while, worth one's time, trouble, or expense: The art exhibition that opened yesterday isn't worth your while.

—conj.
1. during or in the time that.
2. throughout the time that; as long as.
3. even though; although: While she appreciated the honor, she could not accept the position.
4. at the same time that (showing an analogous or corresponding action): The floor was strewn with books, while magazines covered the tables.

Where does it say "until"??? It clearly doesn't. It says a period of time. The "archaic" meaning chosen by max says a "particular time", yet I never even used that anyway: I said a period of time, which is the main meaning of the word "while".

I don't accept I'm wrong? Maybe that would be because I'm not.

Pronunciation: (hwIl, wIl), [key]
—n., conj., prep., v., whiled, whil•ing.

—n.
1. a period or interval of time: to wait a long while; He arrived a short while ago.
2. Archaic.a particular time or occasion.
3. all the while, at or during this time; all along: She realized all the while that the cake would fall.
4. worth one's while, worth one's time, trouble, or expense: The art exhibition that opened yesterday isn't worth your while.

—conj.
1. during or in the time that.
2. throughout the time that; as long as.
3. even though; although: While she appreciated the honor, she could not accept the position.
4. at the same time that (showing an analogous or corresponding action): The floor was strewn with books, while magazines covered the tables.

—prep.
Archaic.until.

—v.t.
to cause (time) to pass, esp. in some easy or pleasant manner (usually fol. by away).




I'm glad I can read anyway you obnoxious little ****.

while

\While\, prep. Until; till. [Obs. or Prov. Eng. & Scot.]

I may be conveyed into your chamber; I'll lie under your bed while midnight. --Beau. & Fl.



Oh look another, but obviously while and until can't mean the same thing as t020 says so...

Originally posted by t020
Oh my God! Nowhere on that page does it say that "while" means "until".

I'm typing this very slowly because you are not very quick at admitting you're wrong. On the page to which I linked my post it read:

—prep.
Archaic.until

Read the whole page, t0202, not just the bit which backs up your argument.

Yes it says it's archaic, i.e. no longer in use.

I heard that there was a nasty accident on a level crossing near Barnsly.

A chap drove up to the crossing, and saw a sign saying "Do not enter crossing while lights are on", so he stopped and waited for the lights to come on before entering the crossing :loopy:

I'm sure you've posted that story before.

Maybe I have. Even second time round it was more interesting than some of the rubbish on here, wasn't it? :thumbsup:

Well, as sidla says, "while" to mean "until" is no longer in use. Anyone that says it sounds like a poorly educated, common Northerner. So, I'll speak properly, you speak like a Northern monkey. Whatever makes you happy.

t020 - about your last pm. I see what you mean!!!

Ohhhh! T020, where IS he? I miss him!




I was trying to find out when the Forum birthday is and found this when I was looking up Geoff for his join date which is obviously when the Forum went public ....

Well, what about the saying 'Don't go out after dark' surely it should be while dark. If it was after dark it would be daylight:loopy:

Should that be, "Do not go out after 'it is' dark?"

Shouldn't it be "WHILST"!!!
That's what I thought. :confused:

It sounds odd to my ears, that sentence.

Some years ago there was a headline in the Sheffield Star which read " The corpse was dead when I found it". If it was a corpse it would be!

Anybody here done computer programming?
Two structures:
The "DO ... WHILE..." loop, and the "DO ... UNTIL..." loop.
They work differently. To save space here, check an elementary programming book.

Anybody here done computer programming?
Two structures:
The "DO ... WHILE..." loop, and the "DO ... UNTIL..." loop.
They work differently. To save space here, check an elementary programming book.

Look, have you seen the OP date? This is a thread about a Forummer missing in action ... not a chance to rehash a grammatical anachronism :rolleyes:

T020, where are you?? Come home, all is forgiven ...

Some years ago there was a headline in the Sheffield Star which read " The corpse was dead when I found it". If it was a corpse it would be!
You know, I've never thought that the English language can be so ambiguous ! Interesting.

jfish1936, so what is the answer ? ;)

Sorry Ruby. Too interesting a thread, to give it a miss.

If you're going to insist on "correct English" then yes, 2 while 3 is wrong, but if you're going to do so in Sheffield, you'll make yourself look an idiot.

Regional dialects 4tw!

hic hic ... pass the Rennies, I'm repeating myself ;)

You know, I've never thought that the English language can be so ambiguous ! Interesting. jfish1936, so what is the answer ? ;) Sorry Ruby. Too interesting a thread, to give it a miss.

Lol, just messiing! You can chat about while and until forever if you like. Just suddenly realised that T020 has vanished and he was a mainstay of SF, the early years :).

Madam Dazzler, since you're in the building now, but still offline. What is it that you are after ?

jfish1936: The "DO ... WHILE..." loop, and the "DO ... UNTIL..." loop.They work differently. To save space here, check an elementary programming book.
I'm not an avid coder, but this perked my ears up. So what is the answer ?

While continues to go on and on and on ?
Until, it stops after X ? :confused:

Yes it says it's archaic, i.e. no longer in use.

Just because it is classed as archaic does not mean that it is not still in use. Most people from middle-age to elderly stiil use any number of archaic words.

I've just finished reading 'Mother Tongue' by bill bryson, if fact, it got me so hooked, i read it in 3 days.
Have a read people, it is very interesting and almost all about what is posted in this thread.

btw, i say '2 til 3' and im a yorkshireman.
But i think 'dont use phone while driving' sounds perfectly understandable to me.

ash (must be thick)

Look, have you seen the OP date? This is a thread about a Forummer missing in action ... not a chance to rehash a grammatical anachronism :rolleyes:

T020, where are you?? Come home, all is forgiven ...

Been wondering the same myself! When I first found the forum I always read his threads as they usually got a discussion or argument going - come back T020 you have been missed!

ps - its until for me :thumbsup: