Who runs the local trading standards office?
Sheffield City Council.
Who runs the local Markets department?
Sheffield City Council.
I think the trading standards office is a wate of time and money.
Sheffield City Council Markets Dept run Blonk St Car Park Car boot Sale on a Sunday morning.
This morning:
!7 stalls were selling counterfeit DVDs
9 stalls were selling counterfeit CDs
4 stalls were selling counterfeit computer software.
13 stalls were selling duty free cigs/tobbacco.
1 stall offered me heroine at £10.

A uniformed Markets Officer approaches a pitch. 'Have you got Batman Begins?' he enquires. The guy gives him a 'free copy'. In full public view.

Fiction or fact? You decide.

We have a couple of City Councillors on the Forum, and at least one member of the Police Force.

I hope that one of them sees this posting and feels they can act on it.

Joe

I find it quite shocking that no one has brought this to our attention before now......er...is it still on?

Originally posted by JoePritchard
We have a couple of City Councillors on the Forum, and at least one member of the Police Force.

I hope that one of them sees this posting and feels they can act on it.

Joe

I have e-mailed Gary McGrogan, Head of Environment & Regulatory services (which includes Trading Standards) with a copy of the original post and asked for an investigation.

Red.

we done a car boot in glasgow recently and were selling loads of dvd's.. brand new ones that were ex stock shop. the guy running the car boot checked them ALL before we were allowed to sell them.

You get this at EVERY car boot sale. If want u want is NOT on show, just ask the seller and he produces a copy from out of the car door pocket. I got STAR WARS EPISODE 3 this morning at Hope, full bootleg DVD, guy was doing BIG business with the kids. Hope boot sale is a real counterfeiters dream....

.

Face it - everyone likes a fiddle - we get cheap gear and they can put food on the table.
Also - many people in authority are bent as butchers hooks.

Originally posted by dwhembro
Face it - everyone likes a fiddle - we get cheap gear and they can put food on the table.
Also - many people in authority are bent as butchers hooks.

TOTALLY AGREE. Everyone DOES like a 'fiddle'....cheap cigs at £2 a pack are better than paying £5 in your local newsgagent and lining the Chancellors pockets......and this "intellectual property theft" idea is a joke......it will never be stopped and all it protects is the FAT CATS!!! I firmly believe in market forces, if someone wants to buy a service or a product then let them.....official or otherwise.....

Originally posted by goldenfleece
and this "intellectual property theft" idea is a joke......

I suppose you'll also find it funny when SW houses can't afford to pay the programmers their fees so no more SW is coded:loopy:

Originally posted by sccsux
I suppose you'll also find it funny when SW houses can't afford to pay the programmers their fees so no more SW is coded:loopy:

Not at all.......the little people working for big companies always get hurt anyway, IP theft or otherwise..its the very nature of capitalism..its the fat cats who are getting fatter and fatter!!!

The fact that you can buy dodgy WIndows XP/office prodisks at any car boot sale for £2 will make ZERO difference to the pockets of the fat cats.....and ZERO difference to programmers.

Originally posted by goldenfleece
Not at all.......the little people working for big companies always get hurt anyway, IP theft or otherwise..its the very nature of capitalism..its the fat cats who are getting fatter and fatter!!!

The fact that you can buy dodgy WIndows XP/office prodisks at any car boot sale for £2 will make ZERO difference to the pockets of the fat cats.....and ZERO difference to programmers.


That's not the way it works, I'm afraid.

When people steal software (don't care about DVDs - to be honest, SW however, is a thing very "close to home") there is less cash available for the software house to pay coders to continue RD/take risks with new ideas/approaches (which is one of the reasons why you find a lot of games very "samey" these days)!.

Net result is less SW being coded (this is not a recent phenomena either, the same thing was happening in the mid-late 80s on the home computer front).

I would imagine the vast majority of people that buy pirate software,would be the normal joe soap that would not have bought the software any other way.

Normal people would generaly find the bloated price of software well out of their reach,thus not buying it anyway.

That fact on its own is a lost sale,the purchaser of a pirate copy of XP is hurting nobody as he was never a purchaser of a legit copy in the first place.

Originally posted by tango2
That fact on its own is a lost sale,the purchaser of a pirate copy of XP is hurting nobody as he was never a purchaser of a legit copy in the first place.

Hurting nobody?

Well, Madrid bombing was mostly funded by priated DVDs - its the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to raise cash.

There is a remote possibility that your hard earned cash has/is funding the next London Bombing.

Most of the stall holders at the Don Valley Computer fair is doing the same thing.

Originally posted by John
Hurting nobody?

Well, Madrid bombing was mostly funded by priated DVDs - its the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to raise cash.

There is a remote possibility that your hard earned cash has/is funding the next London Bombing.

Is there evidence for this John?

Originally posted by goldenfleece
TOTALLY AGREE. Everyone DOES like a 'fiddle'....cheap cigs at £2 a pack are better than paying £5 in your local newsgagent and lining the Chancellors pockets......and this "intellectual property theft" idea is a joke......it will never be stopped and all it protects is the FAT CATS!!! I firmly believe in market forces, if someone wants to buy a service or a product then let them.....official or otherwise.....


I don't agree with you that intellectual property is a joke. There are many people out here struggling to make an honest living creating artwork, written work, music etc.

Why should we do all the hard work to have some talentless piece of sh*te cashing in on it?

Having had my first company come crashing down around me due to an American gallery owner selling illegal cheap prints of my work (estimated to the tune of $150,000) then I get really arate about this kind of thing.

And I'm not a 'fat cat' just a guy trying to make an honest living and make enough money to get out of the council estate that I am stuck on.

Don't forget the 'organised crime' link with piracy too. Al Queda paid for the London bombs with something, quite possibly the proceeds of that Star Wars 3 DVD that so many people were buying off this nice smiling asian guy.

R

Well I went to an enormous car boot today and didn't see a single pirated DVD/CD/bit of software. Mind you, that was in Warwickshire. Usually when I go to the local ones I see it just about everywhere. A couple of years ago I happened to be at Tansley when it was raided by police and customs officer types looking for pirated stuff, and there must have been about 20 stallholders either rapidly shutting up cases or simply legging it. The trouble is, even those who were nicked would have got off with a few hundred quid fine or whatever, and you know they'd be back at it the week after.

To be honest I'm in two minds about this. It's wrong, there's no doubt, but it happens and if it didn't happen at car boots it'd happen in pubs and on markets and all the rest of it, so it's not the car boot's fault; every now and then some rabid idiot calls for them all to be closed down but that's not the answer. The trouble is, I'd believe it was more of a really serious problem if I saw lots of blockbuster film companies going bankrupt, or Microsoft making a loss. People are only realistically going to pirate what they can sell, which is going to be things like Star Wars, War of the Worlds, and so on, rather than little independent art-house flicks. It's hard to see it making a lot of difference to the fortunes of Mssrs Lucas and Spielberg.

As for computer software, I have some sympathy with the idea expressed above that such purchases don't really represent lost sales. The average bloke isn't going to rush out and buy the latest upgrade to Photoshop even if he doesn't buy it off some dodgy bloke at a car boot. And anybody who's going to do anything professional will want a legit copy anyway for the tech support and so on. Software companies always tell us that it costs them so many millions of pounds, but I don't know how they can justify that figure.

The argument that such things go to fund terrorism, organised crime, drug dealing, prostitution, people trafficking and every other evil under the sun would be a better one if there was actually some evidence to back it up, but as it is it just comes across as scaremongering.

Cigarettes and so on is a bit of a different issue as there's no copyright infringement the only person who is losing out there is the taxman. If the government couldn't see that one coming then it's a poor show. It's almost a shame someone doesn't start bringing over tankloads of petrol and flogging that as well.

So I suppose to summarise, I don't buy any of these things so it doesn't really affect me, but as long as it doesn't get too out of control (and it's a very debatable point as to what that is; some would argue we're there already), then I think there are probably worse evils to worry about.

Originally posted by sccsux
That's not the way it works, I'm afraid.

When people steal software (don't care about DVDs - to be honest, SW however, is a thing very "close to home") there is less cash available for the software house to pay coders to continue RD/take risks with new ideas/approaches (which is one of the reasons why you find a lot of games very "samey" these days)!.

Net result is less SW being coded (this is not a recent phenomena either, the same thing was happening in the mid-late 80s on the home computer front).

not with Microsoft though.

They buy companies and pay staff not to do anything to stop competition.

its everywhere.

Every large company I;ve worked for has several people flogging counterfeit dvd's, videos and cd's.

some even put adverts up on the noticeboards.

This is both public and private sector.

Originally posted by chillicat
Is there evidence for this John?

I have read the report somewhere directly linking selling DVDs funded the Madrid bombing - if I find it again I'll post here and PM you. It is on the BBC site somewhere but I can't quite find it as the search engine seems to search the title and not the content.

Some Factual information on what your money could be funding:

http://www.interpol.com/Public/ICPO/speeches/SG20030716.asp

Actually the MAX fine is £10,000 for copyright theft, and TEN years max in jail, but most just get a 50-100 fine as quite rightly stated here, and very very rarely jailed....no space in the nick and all that......

Fortunately, (or not depending on your view), the BUYERS of pirated software or DVD's are not, in essence, breaking the law, and can never be fined!!!! If the law was going to work at all the BUYERS should also possibly be liable for £10,000 fine and TEN years in jail.....that is why the law is an ass...and that is what I meant about IP theft being a joke, there is no legal DETERRENT for anyone NOT to buy the stuff.....

Originally posted by goldenfleece
TOTALLY AGREE. Everyone DOES like a 'fiddle'....cheap cigs at £2 a pack are better than paying £5 in your local newsgagent and lining the Chancellors pockets......and this "intellectual property theft" idea is a joke......it will never be stopped and all it protects is the FAT CATS!!! I firmly believe in market forces, if someone wants to buy a service or a product then let them.....official or otherwise.....

Intellectual Property theft actually impacts a lot of small fry as well.

I lost book royalties in the 80s when some of my stuff was published in the then Soviet Union and India, with nothing coming to me but a nice paycheque to the folks who pirated my books.

I assume that you would complain if I came and nicked afew quid from your wallet; that's exactly what happened to me. It also happens to other creative poeple when they're ripped off.

I do like the idea of cheap cigarettes for people, though. If they're cheaper then perhaps they can smoke themselves to death more quickly by being able to buy more of them... ;)

As for market forces - take a look at supply and demand economics; whilst the open Source movement will continue to provide one means by which software can be written and allow programmers to eat, OS will rarely produce games and such. So, basically get used to the idea of more expensive consumer games that are better protected and that will eventually peter out or become online only as manufacturers feel it's not worth the hassle any more.

metalman - there are a number of reports that have been made that DO provide links between counterfeit goods - not just media, but clothes and perfumes as well - and organised crime, terrorism and drugs dealing. I remember posting a few links on this topic the last time it flared up ages ago. Just try googling and you should find a few.

Also, I know that it has cost me, over a couple of years, about 10,000 to develop a small software component that I now sell. So creating, tetsing and debugging a complex piece of software can esily run in to the hundreds of thousands or millions in terms of full product development.

Joe

Theres some slight hyprocisy in a way because most music these days uses samples of an older track from another band shaggy use to take the full track and speak all over it, is he guilty of piracy. I've bought pirated dvds off people before, but as for terroists being into doing that is unlikely wouldn't they be more likely to sell drugs as theres a far more profitable market in that. Don't blame the police for not dong much watching a pirated dvd is not like giving or selling someone crack or heroin. It is a crime but only just,, and the ones you get off car boots are crap quality anyway and are barely watchable so the only person losing out is the buyer

Originally posted by John

Some Factual information on what your money could be funding:

http://www.interpol.com/Public/ICPO/speeches/SG20030716.asp

But if you actually read it it is couched in very imprecise language... things like 'Interpol's information suggests', or 'it is suspected that' or something equally woolly, which suggests to me that they don't really know and are just amking an educated guess. Which may well be correct, but I didn't read this and then immediately think I was convinced.

Originally posted by sheffjohnny
shaggy use to take the full track and speak all over it, is he guilty of piracy

Er, probably not as he has the money to buy licensing rights to that particular song...

But anyway....

Originally posted by metalman
But if you actually read it it is couched in very imprecise language... things like 'Interpol's information suggests', or 'it is suspected that' or something equally woolly, which suggests to me that they don't really know and are just amking an educated guess. Which may well be correct, but I didn't read this and then immediately think I was convinced.

Most intelligence stuff does tend to be couched like that. I was involved in money laundering compliance work a few years ago and it's the same sort of thing - people tend not to admit to the fact that they're crooks. Then the intelligence that's generated tends to be couched in broad terms so as not to give too much of the game away.

But, if you distrust people, and want to make a fast buck, there's little that anyone can say that will change your mind.

It's a moral and ethical thing at the end of the day; if you prefer to believe that the money you pay over for forged goods is all going to the bloke you're buying from so that he and his family can eat and so his kids can have a nice Christmas, fine. It's your conscience!

Joe

Originally posted by John
I have read the report somewhere directly linking selling DVDs funded the Madrid bombing - if I find it again I'll post here and PM you. It is on the BBC site somewhere but I can't quite find it as the search engine seems to search the title and not the content.

Some Factual information on what your money could be funding:

http://www.interpol.com/Public/ICPO/speeches/SG20030716.asp

The same could be said for anything you buy,Im sure we have all bought something on the cheap,and we will always continue to do so.

To say my purchase of acopy of XP could contribute to the next London bombing as stated in your earlier post,is a bit extreme to sya the least.

As most of us would buy disksof people that we know,from work for example so I doubt that half of my friends are contributing to terrorism.

However I do see a point as to large scale crime rings,but these rings normally go hand in handwith other things,such as drugs prostitution and the like.

In reply to the original post about the DVD being given away, I was told by one of these traders that the reason they did it was that you can't be prosecuted if you are not selling them, so by giving them away they are avoiding some offence or the other, obviously I realise they are still breaking the law somewhere.

Originally posted by JoePritchard

It's a moral and ethical thing at the end of the day; if you prefer to believe that the money you pay over for forged goods is all going to the bloke you're buying from so that he and his family can eat and so his kids can have a nice Christmas, fine. It's your conscience!

Joe

As I've already said I don't buy such things: the films are not the sort I like and they're crap quality anyway, same goes for the CDs, I'm not really into gaming and I've got legitimate copies of all the software I use, and I don't smoke. So I don't have this on my conscience, though of course by being overweight I am in some people's view responsible for children in Africa starving.

Joe, I'm not defending these people for an instant; I wouldn't do it myself and I don't buy their wares. But I do think it would be very easy for the recorded music and film and software industries to just say that all this money gets funnelled into all sorts of organised crime and so on, and I was just pointing out that there doesn't seem to be much evidence for it in the public domain that I've seen.

the pirate dvds, counterfiet goods link is very tenious to say the least, it is always our report suggests, we think, no hard proof.........but then if one was gonna download off a site instead of buying then that funds nothing.

on the other point about stealing money of somebody because of copying intellectual works.........i think weve covered this before.........if i was to copy joes new software for myself........would i be stealing money off joe? would i buy it instead, if i couldnt copy it?, i think for the majority of times it would be no?
so how could copying a cd instead of buying something i wasnt intending to be bought be stealing royalties off somebody?
it just means either way they dont get paid

this is all hypethetical by the way :P

ive never copied any of joes work.............knowingly :P

in fact i dont even know what software he makes :)

Originally posted by robbie
not with Microsoft though.

They buy companies and pay staff not to do anything to stop competition.

I know all about M$'s chequered history;).


To say "I am not a fan" would be an understatement of monumental proportions!

Originally posted by melthebell
the pirate dvds, counterfiet goods link is very tenious to say the least, it is always our report suggests, we think, no hard proof.........but then if one was gonna download off a site instead of buying then that funds nothing.

on the other point about stealing money of somebody because of copying intellectual works.........i think weve covered this before.........if i was to copy joes new software for myself........would i be stealing money off joe? would i buy it instead, if i couldnt copy it?, i think for the majority of times it would be no?
so how could copying a cd instead of buying something i wasnt intending to be bought be stealing royalties off somebody?
it just means either way they dont get paid

this is all hypethetical by the way :P

ive never copied any of joes work.............knowingly :P

in fact i dont even know what software he makes :)

Unless you write AI applications that use neural networks, I doubt you'll have run in to my recent stuff. :)

But I did have some educational software pirated in the 1980s and a couple of books and several articles ripped off - Chaos Theory and electronics.

If you rip off software and don't use it, then I don't give a toss. If you rip off software and use it and don't pay me for the privelege, I do care.

Joe

Originally posted by Wizzzard
In reply to the original post about the DVD being given away, I was told by one of these traders that the reason they did it was that you can't be prosecuted if you are not selling them, so by giving them away they are avoiding some offence or the other, obviously I realise they are still breaking the law somewhere.

They are breaking the same law, as the law states it is an offence to sell OR SUPPLY counterfeit goods.......most people only get prodecuted as they are selling hundreds of them per week and raking it in, then it becomes a "business" which changes the process somewhat. If you give them away free you can still be prosecuted for supply of counterfeit goods, they just wont take it quite so seriously as its not being run as a money making operation...apparently.

Ebay is famous for counterfeit DVD's, about 70% are illegal asian copies according to the critics of EBay.....

Actually just to clarify something which is a grey area, you can sell copies of DVD's quite legally to persons who own an original copy....its all to do with International law and FAIR USE policy, in which any legal owner of software or CD or DVD can make ONE back up copy for their own use..or allow a 3rd party to back up their disk/software, .as long as they do not circumvent encryption or copy protection.......there are some web sites selling pirate disks using this very "disclaimer" as it were and been going for quite some time in fact as the law IS truly an ass......you can copy copyrighted material, but then again you cant...its all hipocritical rubbish the law...depending on how to apply the rules of FAIR USE you can set up a web site selling illegal copies by stating that all your customers must own an original copy and are purchasing a "back up" under the FAIR USE policy.......of course, no one does own an original copy but the disclaimer opens the floodgates, as it were, for all kinds of online abuse.

Getting off the point here perhaps though......

but I really DO NOT think buying a dodgy STar wars DVD in Hope at a car boot sale is going to be paying for the next terrorist outbreak.......that sort of international operation costs millions, not a few copies of Star Wars. terrorism is far more likely to be funded by drug deals on an international supply scale...

I am sure we all know of web sites where we can download MP3's of CD's free with a monthly membership fee, and download the latest cinema movies, etc, and possibly every bit of popular software on the market as well.....the law does nothing to address this problem....NOTHING.

The Information I have from my own copyright lawyer is that it is technically illegal to even make 'back-up' copies although in the UK anyway, somebody is unlikely to be prosecuted for doing a single back-up copy of something they own legitimately.
Websites that flagrantly disregard the law in selling pirate CDs etc usually exist outside countries that have signed any form of copyright agreement, mostly poorer East Asian countries.
There IS hard evidence that piracy on an organised scale does fund terrorism. The IRA were doing it for years and believe me, the market is far more lucrative than any venture into illegal supply of recreational chemicals or counterfeit money.
Even many of the people that are operating counterfeit product selling rings that have no terrorist connections are usually fairly hardcore criminals.
Punishment - For manufacture and supplying counterfeit goods can range from fine and confiscation of manufacturing equipment (computers etc) to jail and confiscation of assets that are likely to have been bought with illegal profit.
I remember two years or so ago a guy in Manchester got about 5 months jail but also got a huge fine and had his house and two flash cars confiscated as he had been on benefits all his life and despite claiming that he had bought his house with a 'lottery win' subsequently it was shown that he had been raking in around £1,500 - £2,000 a week, tax free but still had the nerve to claim Incapacity benefit.
If I remember rightly, later he had a few months added for benefit fraud and tax evasion.
I did hear that Creation records got into financial sh*t despite having Oasis signed to them simply because even at the height of Oasis popularity, about half the CDs owned in the UK were counterfeit. Creation Records no longer exists. Testimony that piracy does indeed affect legitimate business.
I confess that I do own a handful of bootleg CDs however I see the difference as being that the CDs I have are relatively obscure and all contain live performances or unreleased demos/out-takes that have never made it onto official release. Quite often these are set up by fans, even with a bands co-operation in allowing recording equipment to be plugged straight into the mixing desk (stops fans getting ripped off with poor sound quality CDs). Some bootleg issues have even become valuable collectors items in their own right.
Arguing that it is too widespread to be stopped has no validity. Heroine addiction is also widespread yet nobody suggests that the authorities just turn a blind eye to class A drug suppliers activities. Burglary is widespread too - any suggestions that we legalise it or just give up on prosecuting offenders?

Richard

Originally posted by richardbiker
[B]The Information I have from my own copyright lawyer is that it is technically illegal to even make 'back-up' copies although in the UK anyway, somebody is unlikely to be prosecuted for doing a single back-up copy of something they own legitimately.


There is a FAIR USE policy in Canada, and certain other International legal systems, not sure about in the UK. It is widescrpead though that EVERYONE backs up their own software, DVD's and CD's if they own a duplicator....the originals can be damaged so easily

I made the mistake of NOT backing up my WIndows XP disk last year and it got dropped and scratched just before installing it on a new replacement machine....and NO BACK UP.....bad news...

Originally posted by richardbiker

Arguing that it is too widespread to be stopped has no validity. Heroine addiction is also widespread yet nobody suggests that the authorities just turn a blind eye to class A drug suppliers activities. Burglary is widespread too - any suggestions that we legalise it or just give up on prosecuting offenders?

Richard

That's the problem though; all these things are too widespread to be stopped by the strength of police force we have now. If you asked me whether I wanted the police to concentrate on drug dealers, burglars, or DVD pirates I'm afraid I'd plump for the first two, and I suspect most other people would too.

I'm afraid i have to agree with metalman....

I dont agree with the production of these pirate copies and have never bought them. But i would rather the police spent time fighting crimes such as murders, drug dealing etc.

Apart from the moral standing i have on these illegal copies, i have to say that the very few copies i have seen are of an unbelievably poor quality...

Doesn't software piracy boil down to licensing anyway? Just because you have a shiny microsoft disc doesn't mean you have the license to use that piece of software.

You know the bit you always skip past when installing, that says EULA? That'd be the license. Buying software simply purchases a license to use it on one computer, for one user (unless stated otherwise in the license)

My Office 2000 discs from when I had a student license are official MS discs, but have "illegal without a separate license from Microsoft" holographically printed all over them.

Copying any software with the intent to pass it on to other people is illegal, as it violates the license agreement, and if you don't have a license in the first place, then it's definitely not legal!

I'm not saying the huge amounts we have to pay for software like Office (£300 odd!) and Adobe Photoshop (£600 on its own!) can really be justified, but if less people pirated then you never know, software prices might come down. (in a perfect world... but that's no justification for doing it).

Originally posted by metalman
That's the problem though; all these things are too widespread to be stopped by the strength of police force we have now. If you asked me whether I wanted the police to concentrate on drug dealers, burglars, or DVD pirates I'm afraid I'd plump for the first two, and I suspect most other people would too.

http://www.mpaa.org/MPAAPress/2003/2003_03_13B.htm just to get an idea of the scale of crime we have here.

Selling Drugs is far more risky in terms of jail sentence and importation and less profitable than selling DVDs.

It turns out that a very high percentage of those that sell DVDs on a mass scale are also involved in other more serious crime.

I think the solution is to reduce the cost of the DVDs for less than £5 each.

Originally posted by John
http://www.mpaa.org/MPAAPress/2003/2003_03_13B.htm just to get an idea of the scale of crime we have here.

Selling Drugs is far more risky in terms of jail sentence and importation and less profitable than selling DVDs.

It turns out that a very high percentage of those that sell DVDs on a mass scale are also involved in other more serious crime.

I think the solution is to reduce the cost of the DVDs for less than £5 each.

Indeed. If you shop around enough you can pick up some real bargains. I got 'The Forsaken' and 'Deathwatch' from Morrisons on DVD, the two together for a fiver.

I recently picked up an Anastacia CD album for a fiver in HMV too.

Ironically I have seen illegal copies of the Anastacia Cd for around £4-£5 however one other thing to consider is that if you buy pirated anything there is no guarantee that it'll work, and these dodgy characters are hardly the type to give you a refund.

Richard

I think the solution is to reduce the cost of the DVDs for less than £5 each. [/B]

the BIGGEST market for pirates is stuff you cant buy in the shops, ie cinema movies not issued officially yet, and DVD versions of stuff only released on VHS in the past, and of course rare live band CD's not officially available.....the only way to get these is to buy the pirate versions so hence huge sales I imagine....my STAR WARS 3 DVD for example I picked up in Hope on Sunday, and what a superb version it is, not the usual hand held camcorder in the Odeon rubbish....

I don't agree with the person that said if noone paid for software there would be no innovation.

To take an example, Micro$oft release a new version of Windoze every 4 years or so and each one seems to be pretty similar to the last.

Linux distributions often release new versions every 6 months, and are really getting things moving. The Open Source movement are developing thousands of projects and don't make money per-se from the software, rather the business model around it is to sell services such as support and customisation. It's value added. The software itself is a commodity. There are so many excellent open source projects (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Apache, Linux) that the cost will eventually be driven down through market forces, unless the likes of M$ manipulate governments (as usual) to give themselves the advantage and get lockins.

The interesting thing about patents and copyright is that they were originally put in place to protect the small guy from big business, who could steal the ideas and make a fortune. Now though, big business can buy up intellectual property, and do nothing but sit back and make money from licensing people that want to incorporate these (often obvious) ideas into something else.

Originally posted by tombeharrell
Linux distributions often release new versions every 6 months, and are really getting things moving. The Open Source movement are developing thousands of projects and don't make money per-se from the software, rather the business model around it is to sell services such as support and customisation. It's value added. The software itself is a commodity. There are so many excellent open source projects (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Apache, Linux) that the cost will eventually be driven down through market forces, unless the likes of M$ manipulate governments (as usual) to give themselves the advantage and get lockins.


Ah, but Linux/FreeBSD/BeOs etc, are all open source, non M$ products, and very few users use these OSs (though more are, and more will).

However, when M$ buy AV providers (a recent acquisition), then state they are going to discontinue Linux support in the "new" product, how long do you think the exodus to Linux etc will last?.....

Originally posted by sccsux
Ah, but Linux/FreeBSD/BeOs etc, are all open source, non M$ products, and very few users use these OSs (though more are, and more will).

Depends what you mean by few, as it's still in the millions. There are enough people using it to have over 400 distributions, and even Sourceforge has over 100,000 projects and 1,000,000 users.

Remember that most servers on the net (e-mail/web) are open source.

I'd argue that most people only use M$ because it's included on their new PCs, or they've paid so much for it they'd think it a waste to discontinue, or they were brainwashed at school so think that PC=Windoze, or...

Windoze isn't going to go away but will indeed continue to lose market-share. It's like the oil/car companies putting on so much pressure to keep the internal combustion engine, with a silent media not giving the full story about the alternatives (see http://www.dontcrush.com to see why the car companies are crushing battery electric cars, now they have successfully lobbied the California lawmakers to water-down the emission free policies etc.)


However, when M$ buy AV providers (a recent acquisition), then state they are going to discontinue Linux support in the "new" product, how long do you think the exodus to Linux etc will last?.....

M$ are always buying companies, that's how they innovate :)

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying though. Are you saying that if M$ buys a company then drops Linux support, people are more likely to stay with M$?

The funny thing is that because Linux is pretty much immune to viruses, Linux anti-virus products are actually there to protect M$ users that you might pass the virus on to. And because most mail servers out there are Linux, the virus checking is really to protect all the M$ users.

Tom.

Back to the piracy issue.. there is another debate raging in the tech forum as well.. but I'd like to put my penneth across on this thread as well.

As a few people on here have said, people like things on the cheap, nothing wrong with that and I agree with what the pirates are doing.

Software Piracy is a difficult one to discuss.
It depends who you are pirating from I guess??

If its Microsoft - then I dont feel sorry for them at all, it serves Bill Gates and the company right for charging the prices they do.

If its your average software programmer type.. then I would say if you like the progam enough, go buy it to support the programmer further.

So if its a big company like EA or Microsoft.. they wont loose sleep about piracy because they are making **** loads every year.. dont rip off the little guys though.

ALSO:

I though the comment about the copper getting a free DVD was no surprise to me.. I personally deal with 2 ex police officers who have now turned to the darkside and have joined up with piracy.. and apparently both get some of the DVD's from the hordes confiscated by their own ex-police force.. so what does that tell you?

Car boot pirates will be prosecuted, true, apart from they will probably make, in a good day, maybe a £1000 or two and the fines handed out to them are lower than that.. so its quite laughable really.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
[B]Back to the piracy issue.. there is another debate raging in the tech forum as well.. but I'd like to put my penneth across on this thread as well.

As a few people on here have said, people like things on the cheap, nothing wrong with that and I agree with what the pirates are doing.

Software Piracy is a difficult one to discuss.
It depends who you are pirating from I guess??

What its the artist that designed the packaging and he is getting paid 0.025% of profit as royalties? Sometimes these guys don't see a penny in years because for the first 18 months the game is just raking back its development costs, and on paper can shown to be 'not making a profit yet'.

Richard

i have seen what is sold at he market on blonk st i've never been offer heroin though but i dont ask for that there is one of the guys on there that does sell dvd the quality is quite good and it has saved me loads of money if i buy a film on there that i like not only will i go and see it on the big screen as i id with sin city and i will buy the original when it comes out (for the special features) but to take a family of 5 to the cinema and only then find out the film is crap is a waste of money

Does pirated software, especially operating systems, contribute to the increasing number of 'zombie' PCs?

I wouldn't trust a pirate copy of Windows XP on my system because you have no idea where it's been hacked.

There are already tools around for the home user to tweak the Windows install CD so it puts on or removes whatever software you choose. A trojan could easily be installed with the OS>

Stop moaning knocked stuff is great and you knows it:thumbsup:

Originally posted by ANGELUS
I though the comment about the copper getting a free DVD was no surprise to me..
Before you start misrepresenting people, the OP said 'uniformed Markets Officer ', not 'copper'.

As a result of information supplied by richardbiker in his original post, I passed on his concerns to a senior council officer. The police, and customs and excise were also contacted. I have now received the following e-mail .......

"The Police attended on Sunday and found no sign of anyone selling drugs. They also found no counterfeit DVDs, CDs or computer software either, so either they were tipped off or the interest shown on the website was enough to sound alarm bells for them. According to one of my staff Customs and Excise also attended but I do not know if they had a result. A police officer in attendance said it was the straightest Car Boot Sale he had ever come across and from his point of view very boring, which in a way is what we wanted."

What they really ought to do is leave it a couple of months then go back unannounced. Might be a different story then.

honestly can't see the point in camcorder movies.
the movies are readily available for WoW,Star Wars but they do not compare to seeing them on the large screen.
the number of people i know who express opinions on movies from a single viewing of a dark,speckled,low light,poor sound copy of a camcorder movie is annoying & often misrepresents the true film.