This is one thing thats really annoying me now and with us running a ferret rescue we are expecting a influx of baby ferrets because people breed there ferrets and expect to get loads of money for them and WHEN no one wonts them they call us or other rescue saying the usuall we let our jill have kits now no one wonts them can we take them. This happens to other animals and rescues why do people do it.:loopy: I dont beleve in breeding UNLESS for a specific reason ie keeping a blood line for working ect but if its just to make money then thats sad and not fair on the animal in question

Looks like you have answered your own question allready Dean
Still dont believe in the bloodline for working ferrets think thats sick and cruel.Should have seen those brought into Rotherham rescue when that was running with rat bites some near death.

I have really aint I lol It is sad tho

we seem to have a few pregnant rabbits every year which usually end up dumped at ours! it annoys me like crazy.

I don't think it's so much 'why do people breed?' as 'why do people breed for the wrong reasons?'

Honestly, if I could get my hands on some of these so called 'breeders', I'd probably be facing a court appearance.

However - those who breed to a waiting list, have contracts for all offspring sold, vet homes religiously and only breed from worthy stock have my upmost respect. Yes I know it means one fewer would be taken from rescue but you'll never get a total ban on breeding - if you tried it, the BYBs would continue so we need the responsible breeders to at least try and keep people from BYBs.
The ones I support work damned hard for each litter they have, spend a huge amount of money on vets, food, treatment etc. to ensure the best welfare for bitch and pups and are fully prepared for the handrearing of offspring rejected by the mother.

I would always choose to go to a responsible breeder or a rescue - never a pet shop or any 'breeder' I consider to be doing it for the wrong reasons or without due care to their animals.

I get sooo many people asking in the shop for animals, usually it's hamsters, rabbits or guinea pigs but have had a couple of people in looking for puppies and several have come in for kittens! I always direct them to rescues - whether they go or not, I don't know but I can only try. I absolutely and 100% disagree with the sale of animals in pet shops - I really can't stand it and I always explain why (which people are usually shocked by).

However - those who breed to a waiting list, have contracts for all offspring sold, vet homes religiously and only breed from worthy stock have my upmost respect.



So do you think that the people who buy them don't get fed up of them even though they've been vetted etc.
I'm working my butt off homechecking for rescues - inevitably for pedigree dogs who are unwanted by the owners.

Pet breeders in general want either money or fame.

(btw I've rescued a fantastic pedigree boxer who fulfilled all your requirements for a good breeder.)

I breed guinea pigs, I have for many years.

I also rescue guinea pigs, and I have been doing this for even longer.

I have ald always will do my utmost to help ANY pig, not just my own. I feel a kind of responsibility to try and help other pigs even though they are not mine because I have contributed to guinea pig numbers IN GENERAL, not rescue pigs.

Everyone who has pigs from me are ALWAYS told, if you cannot look after them anymore contact me and I will come and get them, no matter where they are, how old they are or what state they are in

I thought you meant why do humans reproduce. Which is an altogether deeper question.

So do you think that the people who buy them don't get fed up of them even though they've been vetted etc.
I'm working my butt off homechecking for rescues - inevitably for pedigree dogs who are unwanted by the owners.

Pet breeders in general want either money or fame.

(btw I've rescued a fantastic pedigree boxer who fulfilled all your requirements for a good breeder.)

Willman,

No - I'm not stupid. Of course there are those who still can't commit for the entirety of the dog's life.

However - I know breeders who have gone to court to get back dogs who's owner got fed up and passed them on instead of returning them as per the contract.

Breeders can only do so much and then it's down to the owners. If you have a damned good breeder you can't blame them for the actions of the people who buy from them they have done all they can.

Yes you could say they should stop breeding but personally I'd disagree with you (not that I want to get into a debate on breeder vs rescue - I have one of each and adore them both).

Have you been in touch with the breeder who bred your dog as you appear to know them? Are they aware you have him via rescue and are they ok with that? The sort of breeder I trust would demand to know your details and if not happy demand the dog back under the contract as you are actually dealing with stolen goods. I know two breeders, one of whom was 'just' the stud dog's owner, who have done this when they have found out their dogs have been passed on.

Brude's breeder not only breeds to a waiting list, but her 'business' needs of having kennels allows her to provide kennel space to the breed rescue too

Don't tar all breeders with the same brush - some of them do actually care about the animals they bring into the world, as well as those other people have brought about too

I was going to add actually... most of the breeders that I know are also involved in rescue in some way, often breed specific but they're involved somehow (not all of them and some of them I wouldn't go to for a pup... but they're still very good).

Well I daren't speak my thoughts on this subject... save to say that if I was in parliament, ALL Dog breeding would be illegal, unless from registered liscensed breeders, who have to fulfill an accredited qualfication and who are inspected annually by a registered and appropriate organisation. Being on the receiving end, too, in my line of work, of people who buy dogs on a whim then can't 'cope' with the dogs natural behaviour as it doesnt fit in with their life styles.... I think it is appalling that we as a society of so called animal lovers, still churn out thousands of puppies a year, hundreds of which end up in rescue centres at approximatley 8-18 months of age, or euthanised as they are so emotionally damged they can't be rehomed.
Its about time someone in authority had the guts to put a stop to it. But I guess whilever the KC promotes breeding.. it'll never happen :(

just my 2 cents worth!

Willman,

No - I'm not stupid. Of course there are those who still can't commit for the entirety of the dog's life.

However - I know breeders who have gone to court to get back dogs who's owner got fed up and passed them on instead of returning them as per the contract.

Breeders can only do so much and then it's down to the owners. If you have a damned good breeder you can't blame them for the actions of the people who buy from them they have done all they can.

Yes you could say they should stop breeding but personally I'd disagree with you (not that I want to get into a debate on breeder vs rescue - I have one of each and adore them both).

Have you been in touch with the breeder who bred your dog as you appear to know them? Are they aware you have him via rescue and are they ok with that? The sort of breeder I trust would demand to know your details and if not happy demand the dog back under the contract as you are actually dealing with stolen goods. I know two breeders, one of whom was 'just' the stud dog's owner, who have done this when they have found out their dogs have been passed on.


I never said you were stupid - but unfortunately several posters always harp on about the fantastic one or two breeders they know. They tend to ignore the breeders who buy bitches from ad mag , have a litter with them and then discard them to new homes via rescues,or breeders who stud the sire out and claim the pick of the litter with no interest whatso ever about the health of the rest of the litter.


You're unfortunately wrong about stolen goods - unless you actually assume that all dog breeders make you sign a contract. In 25 years of pet ownership i've never known it happen once personlly.

I've just bought a boxer pup - the "breeder" cared very little who i was or what we were going to do. But then again i wouldn't expect him to take the dog back(he wouldn't anyway) - no one can refute the fact that most breeders do it for the money regardless of pet type. If they didn't dogs would still be a tenner in pet shop windows.

You're unfortunately wrong about stolen goods - unless you actually assume that all dog breeders make you sign a contract.

You said the breeder did require the new owner to sign a contract...

See?:

(btw I've rescued a fantastic pedigree boxer who fulfilled all your requirements for a good breeder.)

My requirements were:

However - those who breed to a waiting list, have contracts for all offspring sold, vet homes religiously and only breed from worthy stock have my upmost respect.

So if there was no contract signed, then no - they didn't fulfill all my requirements.

I don't know tons of breeders, but I know a fair few dog breeders (through attending ringcraft classes and from showing my dog) and I don't think I know one who wouldn't insist on a contract.

Perhaps we just move in different circles? I, for instance would never entertain the idea of putting money into the pockets of someone like this:


I've just bought a boxer pup - the "breeder" cared very little who i was or what we were going to do. But then again i wouldn't expect him to take the dog back(he wouldn't anyway) - no one can refute the fact that most breeders do it for the money regardless of pet type. If they didn't dogs would still be a tenner in pet shop windows.

I have to disagree with your last comment. If breeders wanting money took dogs out of pet shop windows - then great stuff.

breeding shuld be stopped ful stop unles you going to keep th babies yourself, there to many homeless animals in the world its not fair on them and any baby brought into the world knocks a home away for a recue looking for a home,but thats my own opinion i love rescues

How would that happen then mummsaz?

It would be totally impossible to police it, so the BYBs would still breed but the reputable breeders wouldn't. So anyone wanting a baby not a rescue would be forced to go to a BYB.

All well bred, healthy animals would stop being bred from and we'd end up with ONLY animals with health problems because they wouldn't be tested before being bred from.

How would the rescues then get stocked up?? Because if ALL breeding was stopped, we'd soon run out of animals. Or is it ok for 'accidents' to happen? Would all offspring then be donated straight to rescue so that everyone can have a rescue animal?

it would never happen wold it becouse it wouldent be policed it would be inpossible afterall we live in the real world lol so no matter what i think it would nver happen,but saying that i would rather reputable breeders breed, and no backstreet ones, but on the flipside even reputable breeders arent what they make out to be sometimes you jus never knopw who to trust so its a hard thing to judge i suppose, i have bred in the past but it was close friends who had known for years and i fund homes before i bred and only ever had 1 person not be able to take a baby so i kpt her,its all in a personal situation i suppose i just hope breeders are doing it or the animals and not themselvesxthats all i would ask for

Perhaps we just move in different circles? I, for instance would never entertain the idea of putting money into the pockets of someone like this:




Then perhaps some of the people you speak too aren't all that honest - or they are a select few.
As an example - i rehomed an unwanted cocker spaniel from a well known breeder and show judge still on the circuit. She refused to take the dog back when it suffered from rage syndrome - so i rehomed her myself. The lady wanted nothing to do with the icident until i reported her to KC.
I rehomed my first cocker spaniel bitch from a breeder in Rotherham - because she wouldn't come in season. When she did have her first season i was inundated with offers of stud dog because her pedigree was so good - and her owners were so well known.
Just because she makes you sign a contract doesn't make them nice or exemplary people.

All you know about the breeder i boguht from is he probably wouldn't have him back - doesn't make him a bad person. IMHO he was a dog lover not a breeder.
Professional breeders of boxers who enforce contracts still kill white dogs at birth.

willman... you just told me that the breeder had no interest in who you were or what you wanted to do with him!

Now you say I only know that he wouldn't have him back...

I would want the breeder of my dog to be very concerned about who I was or what I planned to do with the dog.

I would do things differently to Takara's breeder but I know she's always on the end of the phone if I need her. She calls me regularly and keeps upto date with how we're getting on and we agreed that my parents could have T if anything happened to me but if they couldn't keep her she MUST go back to Karyn.

Even then - I'm not under any illusions she's perfect but I trust her to do right by my dog. She rehomed a juvenile dog that she kept because he wasn't show quality. It broke her heart actually, but she did it because she was regularly going away to shows and having to leave Echo behind which she felt was unfair on him. He went to live in a pet home and she keeps up with them, like she does us.

Eddy was from rescue... I can't find his breeder, all I have is a signature of hers on a hand written pedigree. Can't trace her and he's not KC registered so no affix to follow.

I've already said that I don't know loads of breeders but the ones I do know well enough to know their policy do insist on a contract.

If you choose to line the pockets of people who care very little about their animals then of course you'll have stories to tell... and obviously you deal with rescue a lot more than I do so again, you'll have bad stories.

Perhaps next time you're looking for a breeder you could ask me for advice ;)

If you choose to line the pockets of people who care very little about their animals then of course you'll have stories to tell... and obviously you deal with rescue a lot more than I do so again, you'll have bad stories.

Perhaps next time you're looking for a breeder you could ask me for advice ;)

Just remind me again why Crufts was cancelled from the BBC. Oh yes the breeding practices of reputable breeders who care about their animals.
I choose to buy a dog to give it a good home - everything else is irrelevant to me.
Breeders only want them returning so their name isn't tarnished. If they cared so much they'd keep them all.


I also know of loads of good breeders - but at least i accept there are many diferent types.

Just remind me again why Crufts was cancelled from the BBC. Oh yes the breeding practices of reputable breeders who care about their animals.
I choose to buy a dog to give it a good home - everything else is irrelevant to me.
Breeders only want them returning so their name isn't tarnished. If they cared so much they'd keep them all.


I also know of loads of good breeders - but at least i accept there are many diferent types.

I don't believe I ever said that all breeders were good?? I know there are many different types and I accept this too. I think you're only reading what you want to read when reading my posts.
However your quote: 'Breeders only want them returning so their name isn't tarnished. If they cared so much they'd keep them all.'
Makes a sweeping generalisation about ALL breeders - not exactly showing you accepting there's all different types, is it?

As for the reason it was cancelled by the BBC - It was cancelled because of the programme 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed' which, despite some info being accurate, was incredibly biased.
They then couldn't show Crufts because of showing the PDE programme earlier on. They wanted to, and they will be showing it next year when all the hype has died down, but couldn't be seen to be doing so this year. They're obviously not too fussed if they're showing it next year though.

It's a true shame that you apparently know so many good breeders (which is a total contradiction to previous quotes where you say they're all rubbish) and yet you couldn't wait for a pup from them and went to someone who you admit didn't give a toss.

I always thought you gave quite a good discussion Willman but I think you must not be on form at the moment as your posts are giving contradictory evidence. However, it is irrelevant to me as I will continue to think the way I do and you will most likely continue to think the way you do - obviously finding it perfectly acceptable to just pop out and buy a dog from someone who doesn't care who the hell you are.

I don't believe I ever said that all breeders were good?? I know there are many different types and I accept this too. I think you're only reading what you want to read when reading my posts.
However your quote: 'Breeders only want them returning so their name isn't tarnished. If they cared so much they'd keep them all.'
Makes a sweeping generalisation about ALL breeders - not exactly showing you accepting there's all different types, is it?



It's a true shame that you apparently know so many good breeders (which is a total contradiction to previous quotes where you say they're all rubbish) and yet you couldn't wait for a pup from them and went to someone who you admit didn't give a toss.

I always thought you gave quite a good discussion Willman but I think you must not be on form at the moment as your posts are giving contradictory evidence. However, it is irrelevant to me as I will continue to think the way I do and you will most likely continue to think the way you do - obviously finding it perfectly acceptable to just pop out and buy a dog from someone who doesn't care who the hell you are.

I accept all types i just have the opinion they're all the same whether they give you a contract or not. They want your money. How they achieve getting if from you doesn't make them more respectful - which is where you started the conversation. I'm sure you feel relieved to recommend "good" breeders.
I bought a pup from a breeder i didn't know - after consulting with a few other breeders in the Norh West and with the rescues of the breed. Until you turn up you don't know who they are or what they do - on the face of it i wouldn't recommend them - but you can't blame the dog who could have been at risk due to KC rules about his colour.
The comments aren't contradictory - they just cover the full range of my experience. The result is always the same -in truth - pet breeders are like car salesmen.

I'm not trying to change your mind,you're an intelligent and successful person , but it's only fair for people to have an opposing view on reality.

some good points have been made but i dont agree in breeding for money of any way shape or form.