Liking it :thumbsup:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1186245/Training-dogs-Woodhouse-Way-makes-aggressive.html

thank you for the article link... I only wish more people would read it and take heed instead of following certain TV personalities! :rant:
Victoria at People & Dogs
peopleanddogs.co.uk(Puppy, Group, 1-1, Behaviour, Clicker, Workshops and Agility. Member of The Association of Pet Dog Trainers. APDT. Kind, Fair and Effective)

thank you for the article link... I only wish more people would read it and take heed instead of following certain TV personalities! :rant:
Victoria at People & Dogs
peopleanddogs.co.uk(Puppy, Group, 1-1, Behaviour, Clicker, Workshops and Agility. Member of The Association of Pet Dog Trainers. APDT. Kind, Fair and Effective)

I have 2 GSd's, lovely slightly loopy dogs and l do use the advice of a TV personality ,Cesar Millan and l have to say it works. My dogs are not scared of me anymore than the children are scared if l tell them to wait or say no, or expect them to be respectful to their parents (or owners as in the case of the dogs!)
i suppose as with anything, its a case of following the training through and being consistent.
Maybe his methods don't work for everyone but they do work for me.

I have 2 GSd's, lovely slightly loopy dogs and l do use the advice of a TV personality ,Cesar Millan and l have to say it works.
Which advice would that be? the only 'advice' on the TV show is not to attempt anything seen on screen without consulting a dog trainer :suspect:

I would strongly suggest that people look into the whole Ceser Milan 'hot potato' and study the most up to date information regarding dog behaviour and research before committing to any re hashed 'barbara woodhouse' methods that are questionable to say the least and downright dangerous to dog and owner to say the most! He is being sued by the American Humane society and is barred by the American Veterinary Association. Need I say more! Why would anyone want to threaten, shock, pin down or pinch their dog into fearful submission when a harmonious relationshipo can be achieved so much more humanely.. beats me. It just makes for good hollywood TV!

Which advice would that be? the only 'advice' on the TV show is not to attempt anything seen on screen without consulting a dog trainer :suspect:

Well they have to put up a disclaimer, this is an American program after all!
I have no intention of getting into an argument with anyone here, but his techniques of lead training, boundaries and me being calm when I'm cross ( if that makes sense) does work for me. Equally, l have a friend whose 2 dogs won't do anything she tells them, no matter where she's got the advice from.
Its a bit like raising children, there is so much good advice out there, but you have to choose what works for you....... and this works for me.

The programmes specifically exclude any actual training which CM may meter out, and instead show 'before' and 'after' sequences dubbed with subtle music to manipulate your emotions as you watch

Read Vixc's post ;)

The programmes specifically exclude any actual training which CM may meter out, and instead show 'before' and 'after' sequences dubbed with subtle music to manipulate your emotions as you watch

Read Vixc's post ;)

Thanks, have read all posts!
I have seen programmes where he is showing dog owners how to change their behaviour otherwise how would l be able to do it with my own dogs?
As l said before, l am not picking a fight here, BUT his techiques works for me and l am simply expressing my opinion and freedom to choose:)

This is a thread on misguided pet owners following non-specific 'advice' from tv shows isn't it? I'm not arguing that you don't have a good relationship with your dogs ML, but I'm advising that people don't blindly subject their own dogs to the dramas they've watched on tv

I've seen a dog treated incredibly badly by some git who was adamant he was right to hose down a norwegian elkhound half an hour after it growled without the git himself being present. Elkhounds hate water more than anything else on earth. The dog had no idea why his owner had turned on him out of the blue, but it was on the tv, so it MUST be how to treat a dog :rant:

This is a thread on misguided pet owners following non-specific 'advice' from tv shows isn't it? I'm not arguing that you don't have a good relationship with your dogs ML, but I'm advising that people don't blindly subject their own dogs to the dramas they've watched on tv

I've seen a dog treated incredibly badly by some git who was adamant he was right to hose down a norwegian elkhound half an hour after it growled without the git himself being present. Elkhounds hate water more than anything else on earth. The dog had no idea why his owner had turned on him out of the blue, but it was on the tv, so it MUST be how to treat a dog :rant:

Oh for goodness sake.
As previously said, this is my opinion, which l am allowed to have. I am not trying to change anyone else's mind or influence them. Common sense should always prevail when training dogs, children anything. I am not trying to put forward his methods, all i am saying is that they work for me!
Mis guided, l don't think so. ... and as my teenagers would say, "End Of"

This is a thread on misguided pet owners following non-specific 'advice' from tv shows isn't it? I'm not arguing that you don't have a good relationship with your dogs ML, but I'm advising that people don't blindly subject their own dogs to the dramas they've watched on tv


CM actually does NOT 'train' dogs. He admits himself he has no formal qualifications on dog behaviour or training. He applies aversive techniques to suppress unwanted behaviours either through pain or fear. His most popular technique being the old choke chain, (thankfully discarded by more enlightened trainers) lynched up tight around the dogs voice box and under the base of its skull. a few sharp jerks administers quite extreme pain to the dogs nervous system and spinal column. He also uses electric shock collars cleverly disguised behind bandanas and wide webbing collars so that you, the unsuspecting public cannot see this method of torture, he uses pinch collars and slip leads as above. He forces dogs to exercise for long periods of time on treadmills while wearing heavy packs. He mis-diagnsoses and mis labels dogs ALL the time. He does not understand canine communication nor canine body language. He has NEVER took any formal studies in animal behaviour or training. Of which there are now many accredited, respected, acedemic, practical and professional bodies of education in behaviour and training, (for many species, not just dogs) worldwide. Professionals in this field WITH these qualfications, based on thorough and up to date research into canine behaviour, not some self taught mumbo jumbo, have all blacklisted him.

He diagnosis most dogs as being 'dominant' a much maligned label, when instead most of the dogs shown on the programs are in fact - untrained, have no clear boundaries within thier home, have inconsistent owners, sometimes dis-trust their owners, are not mentally stimulated nor physically exercised and might actually be resource guarders or terrified of other dogs etc. At no stage in any of his prgrams does he actually demonstrate training or postive re-inforcement.
What more can I say??!

As said before.... don't believe nor trust in everything you see on TV. and aks yourslef this.... why do they never show any follw up's to his programs say in 6 months time or 12 months time and why are vets seeing an increase in aggression since the onset of this program? 'nuff' said

Vixc you sound just like me... I hope you are able to fight the corner longer than I could before I gave up! :lol:

(just do a SF search of Cesar Milan!)

why are ppl slagging off ceaser milan there already lodsa threads badmouthing him making him out to be the devil in carnate, maybe post on them

Surprisingly i've only ever seen one dog had to be destroyed because his behaviour couldn't be modified. That was in the Uk on Dog Borstal using the plastic bottle as a "distraction" technique - obviously designed to scare the crap out of the dog - but not violent obviously.

My trainers were both on a TV show after I first went to see them. I love them and I can't wait to go back to see them again for a few weeks for my holidays. We will be doing some protection work next time if they can get me out of bed.

Here is my holiday home http://www.royvon.co.uk/MerthyrTydfil.php

Woof!

Surprisingly i've only ever seen one dog had to be destroyed because his behaviour couldn't be modified. That was in the Uk on Dog Borstal using the plastic bottle as a "distraction" technique - obviously designed to scare the crap out of the dog - but not violent obviously.The majority of dogs are more comfortable with short sharp pain than they are 'having the crap scared out of them'

When did we decided psychological battery was acceptable? When we accepted America as the leading light in everything we do? :suspect:

Dog Borstal is the program which led to the water scenario I outlined btw

... oh, and I've seen a rottweiler smacked in the face with one of those bottles full of stones - by a supposed dog trainer who just walked up to the dog whilst it was barking :mad:

It really shocks me the state these owners let their dogs get into on these shows! And with comments like 'oh he's been doing it for years', 'He's always done that'. I've had dogs all my life and never had a problem. All are well ballanced, friendly and happy. All who have met my mutts will confirm that. Just shows how important research and experience are in dog ownership. The 2 I have now are both rescues and came to me loopy as fruitbats but with consistancy in my training and a firm routine both are calm, happy lovable dogs. They both used to chase cats too. They now live with 4 so I must be doing something right! :hihi:

The majority of dogs are more comfortable with short sharp pain than they are 'having the crap scared out of them'



No disrespect meant but how do "we" know they don't mind short sharp pain.
If that is the case a slap on the rump would suffice. My daughters rescue dog ,wet's itself if you raise your voice at it - God help him if we rattled a bottle.(in this case)

Dog training is like raising a child - you either bribe it or threaten it.
You pay your money and take your chances. I don't advocate CM's methods for everyone but obviously they work just as effectively as clickers and water squirters.