I was just wondering what everyone thought about able bodied people using disabled toilets.

As far as I can see the point of disabled toilets is to allow people with access problems to get into the toilet, not to provide instant access, so why the disaproval when an able bodied person uses this facility?

Just because someone uses a whhelchair does't mean that they can't queue, does it? so it seems like madness for us girls to stand in a queue when theres a perfectly decent disabled toilet standing empty?

And if you are the kind of person who is likely to tut at someone walking out of the disabled toilet rather than wheeling out,
how do you know that they haven't got some kind of medical problem that necessitates having a wash basin within the cubicle at times (something that you very rarely find in your bog standard public toilet cubicle.)

Speaking personally, I often use the disabled toilet when I am out and about with my son in his pushchair as you cannot usually fit a pushchair into a cubicle and close the door, and I dont think it would be safe to leave him unattended outside the cubicle. As I result I have been spoken to sternly on several occasions by members of the public as though I am public enemy number one!
What do you all think?

"Accessible" loos (not disabled loos, that'd mean the loo had a disability! lol) are there for people who have a disability, and who cannot get into an ordinary loo.

I have to use an accessible loo, even if not out in my chair, because I still need to use sticks, which makes cramming oneself, and one's "accros" into a standard cubicle nigh on impossible, plus, the added inconvenience that the lack of grab bars etc and lack of room in an ordinary loo has.

If the person can use the standard loo, then I think they ought to do so, and leave the accessible loo free for the people who have a disability, and cannot get into a standard loo.

As for the queueing thing...

Think about it... if we wheelchair users have to que, then what about the extra time it takes when we finally get into the loo, to get our clothing rearranged, and transferred out of the chair and onto the loo?

It's not unreasonable, really, to expect the accessible loo to be free of the ablebodied...

When I can use a loo without grab-bars, etc, and you need a loo with them, then I will be perfectly happy to step aside, and let you go into the acessible lavatory, whilst making my way into the standard cubicle....

Until then, I have no compunction whatsoever, about giving someone a piece of my mind, about taking up the accessible loo when they don't need to.

PT

If there is no disabled person present, I use the accessible
toilet.

Granma.

but what if a disabled person arrives whilst you are in there, and you could be making them wait unnecessarily? it's bad enough, waiting for the (usually only one!) accessible loo to come free, when the occupant has a disability.


PT

You could live a life of "what if" if you wanted. They would still have to wait if there were a disabled person in there too!

At the end of the day, a toilet is a toilet is a toilet.

I may not be disabled, but if a toilet doesnt require a RADAR key then I'd use it if nessesary.

i wouldnt use them

Originally posted by Plain Talker
<snip>If the person can use the standard loo, then I think they ought to do so, and leave the accessible loo free for the people who have a disability, and cannot get into a standard loo<snip>

I'm in full agreement with this point, but one of the points scoop made was that she used the accessible toilet when she was out with a child in a buggy, this is very difficult in a standard cubicle, and should be acceptable also.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
<snip>Until then, I have no compunction whatsoever, about giving someone a piece of my mind, about taking up the accessible loo when they don't need to.<snip>
The problem with this is, how do you know, there are plenty of medical complaints where it's just not apparent, or are you suggesting that someone with say a colostomy should walk about with a badge on, just so that you know they're entitled to use the accessible loo.

I'll finish off with the point PT raised though, if you can use a "standard" cubicle, please do, people with some conditions just can't wait in a queue as long as fully able bodied people, it really isn't fair to make them wait unless you really do need the accessible loo.

:)

Not everyone can afford to wait in a queue tho....irritable bowel syndrome....chilli bladder.....someone with a very bad cough...!

Originally posted by RPG
You could live a life of "what if" if you wanted. They would still have to wait if there were a disabled person in there too!

At the end of the day, a toilet is a toilet is a toilet.

I may not be disabled, but if a toilet doesnt require a RADAR key then I'd use it if nessesary.

as a wheelchair user (most of the time, and on my sticks the rest of it), i'd disagree with that assumption/ premise:-

no, rpg, a toilet is not a toilet is not a toilet...


I cannot get my chair into an ordinary, standard cubicle.

I am limited to using the very few accessible loos, that there are. I have pretty much hobson's choice on which loo I use.

As an "a-bod", you have no problem:- no loo, unless it's locked, is barred to you for use. it's different for people like myself who can't get into an ordinary loo.

(ETA;-I have no problem, despite the *coff* inconvenience, if I have to wait for another wh'ch user to come out of the loo, because they are in the same boat as I am... THEY can't get into the standard cubicles, either! it's when i can't get in to the access loo, because of someone who could have managed perfectly well in the standard loo, that i get annoyed)

PT

I wouldn't use a Disabled toilet myself and I also would never park in a disabled spot. It infuriates me when I see people park in a child spot especially when it's p***ing down with rain and you have to carry your baby from the other end of the supermarket car park.

If I go to the shops without my toddler I don't park in a child spot even though the Child seat is in the car and people would think I had the baby with me I would feel too guilty.

My Dad couldn't walk very far due to asbestos poisoning causing lung cancer, we had a disabled sticker I put in my car when I took him anywhere and would sometimes get looked upon as liars becaue he wasn't in a wheelchair but if they had followed us they would have realised he coudn't walk too far so I agree not all disabilities are obvious but I do think unless you have a good reason you should not use facilities that you are not entitled to.

I must admit I always used to use the disabled loos if there was one free and no-one there and then in need of it.
However since my dad became less able (he uses a wheelchair occasionally and walking sticks the rest of the time) I realised how inconvenient it can be for them to have no choice but to wait for the one toilet they can get into.
However, it would seem that not all less able people are aware of this, as brought to our attention on a day-trip to Bakewell recently: We found the public loos and discovered that there was an electric scooter-type-thing outside the disabled loo, blocking the door, dad obviously waited for a while... and a bit longer... and a bit longer... then the person who owned the scooter appeared out of the able bodied toilets and got back on the scooter!!!!
There were words exchanged, as dad had been polite in waiting for what he thought was a person needing time in the disabled loo, it turned out to be someone selfishly blocking the disabled toilet for anyone else!!!
some people just NEVER think beyond themselves!!

But I think that's the point... they are not labelled 'For disabled people only' so in theory anybody is 'entitled' to use one, unlike a disabled parking place which is only for blue badge holders.

Having said that I never have, and hopefully never will.

I have a confession to make, some years ago, I went to Durham to see Death Cult and found myself at 2.30 in the morning with nowhere to sleep after the gig.
I wandered round Durham and found the only place I could lay my head on my back pack for a kip was the disabled loo, which I then used. It was a tad uncomfortable on the tiled floor but it was clean, tho smelling of disinfectant and I was out of there at 6 in the morning.
So yes, I have used them, albeit only once.

I've been known to use them, but as folk who've met me at the meets etc will know, I am disabled.. Having said that though I only use the disabled loos in the instance that they're cleaner than the *cough* normal *cough* ones, which is as rarely as possible but given that the ones in Town are usually a bit grotty you can't always help having to use disabled facilities even though you're not really supposed to.

At least Town has "some" decent facilities, Hillsborough is somewhat lacking in that department, the only loo on Hillsborough is in the Co Op and IMO the Gents ain't that hygienic... Why the Council don't tidy up the ones at the Park god only knows.. :loopy:

I would generally only use the Accessible toilets if the normal ones were out of order. But by the same logic, I'd also be willing to use the ladies' if the gents' were out of order (and the situation meant I couldn't just go and find some other gents' toilets).

Given a choice between the two, I'd prefer to use the accessible one, because while there is no actual law against a man using ladies' toilets, it is frowned upon by almost everyone, and they'd think I was a pervert. I'd prefer to be thought of as inconsiderate than a pervert.

Originally posted by scoop
I was just wondering what everyone thought about able bodied people using disabled toilets.

As far as I can see the point of disabled toilets is to allow people with access problems to get into the toilet, not to provide instant access, so why the disaproval when an able bodied person uses this facility?

Just because someone uses a whhelchair does't mean that they can't queue, does it? so it seems like madness for us girls to stand in a queue when theres a perfectly decent disabled toilet standing empty?

And if you are the kind of person who is likely to tut at someone walking out of the disabled toilet rather than wheeling out,
how do you know that they haven't got some kind of medical problem that necessitates having a wash basin within the cubicle at times (something that you very rarely find in your bog standard public toilet cubicle.)

What do you all think?

I agree with you.

Accessible toilets are designed for ease of access for people who need more room, or hand rails etc. They are not about fast-tracking.

There is nothing at all wrong in using an accessible toilet if it is totally free.

It is surely also helpful if it reduces the pressure on regular toilet queues.

Parking spaces are different - and not just because of the law but because you are stealing that space for ages, hopefully you would be in and out of the loo in a very short time.

I have never heard that you have to have a disability to go in the accessible toilets, however if you do have a disability, they are the ones that you should find easier to use.

Originally posted by Plain Talker


Until then, I have no compunction whatsoever, about giving someone a piece of my mind, about taking up the accessible loo when they don't need to.

PT

So to go back to one of my origional points, what if the person you were giving a piece of your mind to had a personal medical problem which meant they needed to have a sink within the toilet (acolostomy for example). Would you feel a tad guilty for speaking harshly to someone about what could be a very intimate and personal problem?

On another vein, I have noticed that disabled toilets often double up as baby changing facilities, so the issues I'm addressing here about the fact that a disabled toilet should not be seen as an instant access toilet are obviously factored in at the planning stages.

I suppose we could open up a whole jar of worms here about whether pushchairs should be lugged up the stairs instead of pushed up a 'disabled' ramp, or whether the automatic doors are for the exclusive use of wheelchair users too.

Having said this, there are occasions when it is necessary to damage a few ankles to get a buggy through a set of automatic doors with a stream of able bodied people barging through :mad:

Perhaps we should all be more considerate of each other? ;)

I'm sorry but if I need to drop the kids off then I will go to the nearest toilet possible (without resorting to using the ladies!)

I can't waste time building up the pressure looking for an appropriate cubicle (why are the toilets ALWAYS upstairs in most places these days :confused: )

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go!

Must admit I have used the disabled toilets, but only when I have my children with me (my eldest has nero-disabilitys and cannot be left in the normal gents unatended).
I have never had any tuts or angry people telling me off when I have left. I am suprised because to look at my son he looks able bodied and just like any other child, so people could presume that I was just q skipping

They should have it so that anyone can use it but if those who really need it like PT turn up then those persons jump the queue. Might be better :thumbsup:

I use the disabled toilet if theres a big queue. Whats the problem with that if its standing there empty??

Isn't it there to be used? Obviously if there was a disabled person behind me in the queue then I wouldn't obstruct the facility provided for them, but if not, yes I do it regularly.

I look perfectly able bodied to most people, but I have a degenerative spinal condition and a partially paralysed arm, meaning that getting up and down are realy difficult and dealing with clothing's rather hard too.

I've lost count of the number of times I've encountered the people who tut and stare, both at the accessible toilet scenario (and attendants who won't hand over the key because I'm not in a wheelchair- yet!) and the car parking spot scenario (even been challenged by parking attendants to prove that my blue badge wasn't stolen after refusing to believe that the photo on the back was me).

There are plenty of people like me who need the accessibility but don't feel like justifying it every time they need to use a service.

Just a minor point but has anyone ever seen a queue for a 'disabled' toilet facility?

No......I haven't either.

Its a toilet with disabled access NOT for exclusive use of disabled people.

Perhaps if ALL toilets were equipped to accomodate those with disabilities as well as able-bodied then there wouldn't be this debate.

I am firmly of the belief that there are only obstacles for people with disabilities because people (in all ignorance usually) put obstacles in the way.

I look perfectly able-bodied, but I find stairs particularly difficult and many of the 'able-bodied' loo's are either up or down several flights of stairs. So, if I can't manage to access the able-bodied loo's then I have no problem about using the loo's set aside for people with disabilities.

I know someone who was forcibly evicted from a Sheffield night club because she used the 'disabled' loo. IMHO that is plain stupid.

And what about people who are 'larger than average'? I've used some loo's that are so tiny i've had trouble getting in/out of them - people who are larger than me would find it a real struggle - nigh on impossible in some cases.

so, I think the emphasis should be on making all toilet facilities accessible, then everyone is on an equal footing. Also, I have noticed in some places that the 'disabled' loo is located where there is little privacy as to who is accessing it - personally I hate walking out of a loo straight into a crowd of people, so why should someone who is unable to access ordinary loo's faced with a quite obvious visit/exit?

Another friend of mine is young and at first glance looks perfectly able-bodied, but she has had two hip replacements and knee replacements, she cannot bed her legs without a lot of pain and finds the 'disabled' loo's much easier because they are usually a lot higher, however she has experienced the 'tuts' and coments when she has used such facilities. She also has a 'blue badge' and has to endure endless comments when she displays it.

Lets face it, in order to get a blue badge these days one has to have a really good reason, so why do people feel the need to comment just because they can't 'see' the disability?

It's about time people got on with their own lives and stopped worrying about what other people are/are not doing.

Originally posted by the_rudeboy
Just a minor point but has anyone ever seen a queue for a 'disabled' toilet facility?

No......I haven't either.

Its a toilet with disabled access NOT for exclusive use of disabled people.

actually, yes, because accessible loos are few and far between, there are very often queues for an accessible lavatory, (e.g., last friday afternoon in the Alhambra Centre, in Barnsley.

funnily enough, there were three of us wheelchair users waiting, for the loo; me, my mate, and another woman whom we didn't know.

and the most laughable thing was...

The ABLE BODIED woman who was IN the accessible loo came out and laughed at us and said "Well AH weren't waitin' in THAT bluddi queue!"

Grrrrr!

PT

Originally posted by scoop
So to go back to one of my origional points, what if the person you were giving a piece of your mind to had a personal medical problem which meant they needed to have a sink within the toilet (acolostomy for example). Would you feel a tad guilty for speaking harshly to someone about what could be a very intimate and personal problem?

On another vein, I have noticed that disabled toilets often double up as baby changing facilities, so the issues I'm addressing here about the fact that a disabled toilet should not be seen as an instant access toilet are obviously factored in at the planning stages. I use these toilets for my child to change him.You cant change a teenager on a baby changing mat.He does not need the toilet as he does not use one but he needs the space and the privacy as the able bodied ones are not big enough.If i saw some one coming out of these toilets able bodied i would not think any think of it as some conditions you can see and some you cant.

If theres a row of toilets, apart from a disabled one, i always try to use the very first one, it's usually the cleanest as most people avoid it for some reason.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
"Accessible" loos (not disabled loos, that'd mean the loo had a disability! lol) are there for people who have a disability, and who cannot get into an ordinary loo.




This made me laugh :lol: Since when have the disabled loos started being called 'accessible' loos, another account of political correctness going mad.

Originally posted by Skatiechik
This made me laugh :lol: Since when have the disabled loos started being called 'accessible' loos, another account of political correctness going mad.

Indeed.. If I saw a sign that says "accessible toilet" then I'd go right ahead and access it for a slash.

I regularly use the disabled toilet when I have my youngest child with me!

Have done for years as before now my older children were little too!!

Not many baby change toilets actually have a toilet in them for the use of parents or small children!

In this day and age I was never prepared to....

1) leave my baby/young child 'abandoned' alone in a pram/pushchair with belongings/shopping outside a cubicle door.

2) leave my pram/pushchair/belongings/shopping unattended outside a cubicle door. (take the child out)

3) use the toilet with the cubicle door open for all to see just to be able to see my child/pram/belongings:gag:

4) see my young child wet themselves because they could not hold their bladder whilst stood in a queue for a standard cubicle!!

I have never had a bad remark from a disabled person and it has happened numerous times that on leaving the toilet a disabled person has been waiting patiently outside, nor do I feel 'guilty' for using the disabled toilet facility as an able-bodied person.

The disabled toilet is the only way I can use the toilet and bring my pram etc in with me.

Anyway, in many public places the disabled toilet/doubles as the baby change area as well!!

If I didn't have a young child/pram with me I would not use it unless I had a desperate need and was really in danger of embarrassing myself!!

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Skatiechik
This made me laugh :lol: Since when have the disabled loos started being called 'accessible' loos, another account of political correctness going mad.

"disabled loos" have been called "accessible loos" for a while, if folk cared enough to take notice of the correct term...

As I said in the original post that you so very kindly mocked...
the correct term IS "accessible":- the term "disabled loo" means that the loo literally *has* a disability.

a "disabled loo" may be termed thus, and not actually be accessible to a wheelchair user.

I have been to places where the d**kheads who designed/ installed the loos, have installed a "disabled" loo at the top of a flight of fifty-odd steps (the old odeon, that's now "kingdom" is a f'r'instance) or, on the A1, near the junction with the A57 there's a grotty transport "caff" with the "disabled loo" up two steps *loopy*

so, when the loo is "disabled" in that way (IE a disabled person cannot actually utilise it. then yeah i'd describe the loo in question as "disabled")

eyethenkyew!

PT

everyone used them at work (Moorfoot) as there are bugger al toilets.

In Moorfoot, there are plenty of toilets on each floor!

2nd floor - toilets close to the main lift lobby, in the conference area, toilets also close to the main lift lobby - in the corridor on the way to the restaurant. Also at the entrance to the North wing.

On every other floor, you will find the gents toilets just to the right of the main lift lobby, ladies toilets to the left and slightly down towards the East wing. There are also toilets near the north wing lift lobby, usually just past the tea point.

There are additional toilets on the East wing and at various points throughout the building.

I would knock Moorfoot for many things, but not the lack of toilets.

problem is I only know where one lot is on 1st flr and 2 on second 3 on 3rd etc. you only ever get shown one toilet. and there are no toilets in the showers either:rant:

Originally posted by Belle
I agree with you.

Accessible toilets are designed for ease of access for people who need more room, or hand rails etc. They are not about fast-tracking.

There is nothing at all wrong in using an accessible toilet if it is totally free.

It is surely also helpful if it reduces the pressure on regular toilet queues.

Parking spaces are different - and not just because of the law but because you are stealing that space for ages, hopefully you would be in and out of the loo in a very short time.

I have never heard that you have to have a disability to go in the accessible toilets, however if you do have a disability, they are the ones that you should find easier to use.


:clap: My thoughts exactly. I always use the disabled loo if there are even a few people q-ing for the ladies, and I have NEVER ever come out to see someone waiting for it. My mum's disabled so I know first hand about the difficulties disabled people face in their daily lives - and quite frankly plain talker if you had a few words with me you'd get a few back!

Originally posted by Hels
In Moorfoot, there are plenty of toilets on each floor!

2nd floor - toilets close to the main lift lobby, in the conference area, toilets also close to the main lift lobby - in the corridor on the way to the restaurant. Also at the entrance to the North wing.

On every other floor, you will find the gents toilets just to the right of the main lift lobby, ladies toilets to the left and slightly down towards the East wing. There are also toilets near the north wing lift lobby, usually just past the tea point.

There are additional toilets on the East wing and at various points throughout the building.

I would knock Moorfoot for many things, but not the lack of toilets.

Yeah but I rarely go down that end of Town, usually opting for Fargate end for shops like Virgin, Dixons, Smiths etc.. But trouble is there's hardly any loos up that way without going in Marks and Spencers or down to TJ Hughes.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
"disabled loos" have been called "accessible loos" for a while, if folk cared enough to take notice of the correct term...




:lol: I can't help but find it amusing, if it is accesbile loos then sure it is accessible to all ;)

Madness in this country with political correctness.

While I have every sympathy for the plight of wheelchair users they are not the only people with access issues. I would definitely not have any quibbles about using an accessible toilet if necessary by virtue of my own very considerably less visible disabilities.

Originally posted by Hels
In Moorfoot, there are plenty of toilets on each floor!

2nd floor - toilets close to the main lift lobby, in the conference area, toilets also close to the main lift lobby - in the corridor on the way to the restaurant. Also at the entrance to the North wing.

On every other floor, you will find the gents toilets just to the right of the main lift lobby, ladies toilets to the left and slightly down towards the East wing. There are also toilets near the north wing lift lobby, usually just past the tea point.

There are additional toilets on the East wing and at various points throughout the building.

I would knock Moorfoot for many things, but not the lack of toilets.

Wrong end mate, and not everyone goes in Debenhams, which isn't even at Moorfoot, it's at the top.

Originally posted by wendygs
While I have every sympathy for the plight of wheelchair users they are not the only people with access issues. I would definitely not have any quibbles about using an accessible toilet if necessary by virtue of my own very considerably less visible disabilities.

At risk of sounding pedantic and argumentative, how does speech loss require the extra space, and adaptations that are present in an accessible loo? (note:- please forgive me if I have misinterpreted your previous posts, and that speech loss is not your only disabling condition)

PT

I think the problems which potentially arise is when people make assumptions about someone's ability/disability.

To anyone just looking at me I look perfectly fit and healthy but I do have tremendous difficulties that I try to hide. I don't need to use 'accessible' loo's unless the 'normal' loo's are are up/down a flight of steps and no lift is available. In those circumstances I will use the 'accessible' loo - even though I don't actually need the extra space - it just means the 'ordinary' loo's are inaccessible to me.

To date, there's never been anyone waiting outside when I leave. But if there was someone waiting outside and they commented on me using 'their' loo then they'd certainly get a (hopefully very polite, but can't make any promises) lesson in 'understanding different disabilities'.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
At risk of sounding pedantic and argumentative, how does speech loss require the extra space, and adaptations that are present in an accessible loo? (note:- please forgive me if I have misinterpreted your previous posts, and that speech loss is not your only disabling condition)
PT

I accept PTs apology and the only disability I wish to discuss is my voice loss in the appropriate thread.

Hels raised a valid issue regarding the assumptions surrounding accessibility and disability. It is assumed wrongly that people in wheelchairs or on crutches are the only people with the need for accessible facilities.

I also feel we should not be required to explain our reasons for using such facilities. To clarify my post further if I need to use a toilet I will use the nearest facility and if the only facility is an accessible toilet I do use it because that is what I need to do.

There is also the issue of some companies such as Abbey (Bank) in Fargate only having an accessible loo which does not leave any choice and which by the way is often in the most disgraceful state. If I need to use it I do but otherwise I definitely do not.

Coles has the main facilities on the 2nd floor and an accessible toilet is on the 3rd floor. if I were on the 3rd floor AND "breaking my neck" (metaphorically of course) AND no-one was using it I would use the accessible loo.

I queried this with their Customer Services because I felt it was unfair on wheelchair users wanting to get to the nearest loo in a hurry if they are in the basement at Coles. I was told they arent making further investments in that building and relocated the accounts department to its present location because a disabled ramp would have cost £20,000 and would need a 20ft length to get the right slope.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
"disabled loos" have been called "accessible loos" for a while, if folk cared enough to take notice of the correct term...

As I said in the original post that you so very kindly mocked...
the correct term IS "accessible":- the term "disabled loo" means that the loo literally *has* a disability.

a "disabled loo" may be termed thus, and not actually be accessible to a wheelchair user.

I have been to places where the d**kheads who designed/ installed the loos, have installed a "disabled" loo at the top of a flight of fifty-odd steps (the old odeon, that's now "kingdom" is a f'r'instance) or, on the A1, near the junction with the A57 there's a grotty transport "caff" with the "disabled loo" up two steps *loopy*

so, when the loo is "disabled" in that way (IE a disabled person cannot actually utilise it. then yeah i'd describe the loo in question as "disabled")

eyethenkyew!

PT
There is a difference between a disabled toilet and an ambulant disabled toilet. THESE are the generic terms used and each is a different thing You are probably assuming that all disabled toilets should be accessible by chair - this is not the case.

The Odeon was designed to restrict disabled access. Not nice I know, but that's how it was. There was debate about where wheelchairs should go in a cinema in the event of a fire, ie should they block up the isles for the 99% rushing to get out or should wheelchairs be the last out and therefore limit their chances of survival.

When was the Odeon designed?

Surely these days it's not necessary for there to be any restrictions? If there are sufficient emergency exits for everyone to evacuate a building safely then there shouldn't be a problem.

What makes me laugh (not really) is when 'accessible' toilets are placed beyone inaccessible access doors :loopy:

And even in these 'enlightened' days, with the DDA and everything else it amazes me how thoughtless so many organisations and businesses are ...