Does anyone else feel there is something of a culture of inverted snobery in Sheffield?

The type of thing I mean is disdain for "soft southerners" and the like. Even people from Dore or Totley seem suspect let alone anyone from another part of the country.

It also seems to be linked to a ceratin sort of idea, such as, 'what a shame steel works closed and Meadowhall opened' etc. Do people know what I am getting at?

I know what you mean. I do it myself !

I dont really mean it. I think i just like whinging.

E.g

Be a good boozer this if it werent packed wi spot lights and Students with the discount Cards.etc etc

I used to like West Street before they tarted it up and filled it wi trendy southern bars.

Now i'm not really bothered. I just like whinging about it.

Originally posted by Albert Tross
Now i'm not really bothered. I just like whinging about it.

Same here, but some people realy do think that living in S10 is something we should all aspire to.

We have friends who bought a house in S10, they would not consider buying a house anywhere else in Sheffield and ultimately ended up with a HUGE mortgage now they rarely go out, only holiday in the UK, have only 1 car in the family etc etc but enjoy the status of their address and local schools!!

We bought a house in S8, we are very happy here...the size of our mortgage ensures we can holiday twice a year abroad, we can have 2 cars in the family, we can enjoy going out and socialising with friends etc etc

I am not being 'boastful' and am merely showing how my modesty has given me a better lifestyle....does this make me an inverted snob...for being smug at their utter snobbery and drab lifestyle!!

:hihi:

I understand 'inverted snobbery' to be an unwillingness to improve your station or better yourself, and a sneering type of view of anyone who does.

Did anyone watch Doctor Who this year? Rose's mum was an inverted snob. After Rose expressed displeasure at the prospect of working in the butcher's shop, her mum replied with "It'd do you some good - that [old] job was giving you airs and graces."

I hate that kind of attitude. But I don't think it's localised to Sheffield - it happens all over.

Shiesh - I'd say that just makes you a little more sensible and probably better at budgetting your finances than your friends.

Buy a house that you like, but not to the point of it spoiling other areas of your life, that's just silly.

Originally posted by RichD
I understand 'inverted snobbery' to be an unwillingness to improve your station or better yourself, and a sneering type of view of anyone who does.


It's think it's more of a sneering view of people who say "look how well I've done, you could do this well too, if you just tried", without stopping to think that some people might be happy where they are and not want to have they have.

Originally posted by nick2
It's think it's more of a sneering view of people who say "look how well I've done, you could do this well too, if you just tried", without stopping to think that some people might be happy where they are and not want to have they have.

that's normal snobbery isn't it. Surely inverted is the ones without thinking less of the people with, just because they've worked hard and are now 'with'. It's a bit of jealousy expressing itself isn't it?

snobbery (n): to look down ones nose at others

inverted snobbery (n): to look up ones nose at others

:hihi:

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Does anyone else feel there is something of a culture of inverted snobery in Sheffield?

It also seems to be linked to a ceratin sort of idea, such as, 'what a shame steel works closed and Meadowhall opened' etc. Do people know what I am getting at?

I guess that part of the thinking there might be economic / skilled work related.

The steel works probably generated a lot more skilled jobs over tiem than Meadowhall's service driven economy provides.

I may be wrong - I frequently am! :)

Joe

All of this reminds me of the terminology that once became fashionable - YUPPY etc. Can anyone else remember this?

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Does anyone else feel there is something of a culture of inverted snobery in Sheffield?

The type of thing I mean is disdain for "soft southerners" and the like. Even people from Dore or Totley seem suspect let alone anyone from another part of the country.

It also seems to be linked to a ceratin sort of idea, such as, 'what a shame steel works closed and Meadowhall opened' etc. Do people know what I am getting at?

I know EXACTLY what you mean! There's too much of a working class, flat cap, chip on shoulder mentality in many parts of Sheffield (which could be linked to why we, as a city, aren't as progressive as other major cities like Leeds and Manchester, and as a result we miss out on things).

Originally posted by nick2
Same here, but some people realy do think that living in S10 is something we should all aspire to.

Or S11 or S17.

Originally posted by t020
...and as a result we miss out on things...

Have you as city residents noticed that in those "cities" list, Sheffield is always missing.

It never gets pinpointed on national weather maps, never in the list of "large cities", even though you are the fourth largest.

Hmm...


Alex - :)

There is definitely a "prolier than thou" attitude in this city, far in excess of anything I have ever experienced living in other cities (I have lived in London, Manchester and Belfast) .

I am fortunate to have a good job, nice house and enjoy an excellent quality of life but regularly get questioned how are you so lucky/can afford that etc. Mostly I may add from my neighbours who to a man/woman work in the public sector.

The answer? - I work my buns off, have little job security and am obliged to take risks!

Forgive me, and I don't quite know how to say this but the Uk as a whole have a lot of " common people"... By this I dont necessarily mean poor, but just plain thick..... It's very strange. If you go up Firth Park, you get quite a few people fitting in a certain stereotype; weekly shop @ netto (£10 to feed the whole family for the week) the rest on booze and fags. If you have a conversation with them, its generally very uninteresting, mostly what happened @ the pub last nite, who they slagged off etc...

Then you go to the other side of the city, lets say S10, and you get what I can honestly call " normal people". They say hello to you, they respect each other's proprety, and, again, generally you can have a good conversation with them.

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

Originally posted by Sony

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......


Very brave, but very well said! :clap:

I have to say it cuts both ways. I have a neighbour who I'm sure thinks I'm jumped up or something. He won't utter more than a grunt in greeting, and that's rare in itself. It makes me think of how Tubbs & Edward behave. But then I can go for my weekly shop and have the Bored Housewives of western Sheffield look at me like I'm a piece of sh*t on their shoe when they hear me dropping my aitches.

As for conversation, at work the posh ones seem to spend an inordinate amount of time moaning about the cost of gym membership or talking about nursery provision while the lasses talk about all kinds of mad, weird stuff. You get boring/thick/intelligent people in all parts of Sheffield.

Originally posted by Sony
Forgive me, and I don't quite know how to say this but the Uk as a whole have a lot of " common people"... By this I dont necessarily mean poor, but just plain thick..... It's very strange. If you go up Firth Park, you get quite a few people fitting in a certain stereotype; weekly shop @ netto (£10 to feed the whole family for the week) the rest on booze and fags. If you have a conversation with them, its generally very uninteresting, mostly what happened @ the pub last nite, who they slagged off etc...

Then you go to the other side of the city, lets say S10, and you get what I can honestly call " normal people". They say hello to you, they respect each other's proprety, and, again, generally you can have a good conversation with them.

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

Yes. Very brave to bring this up. I have always thought that there are a few unmentionable truths. Has anyone else ever wondered why house fires very seldom occur in prosperous areas. Why is childhood tooth decay an issue in less prosperous areas (not just in Sheffield but in every major conurbation). It's not intelligence or wealth that's at work. More a factor of "care". People in prosperous areas seem to care more. They care more about their childrens health. They care about the type of surroundings they live in. They care more about their own health (less consumption of drink/food/drugs etc) It cannot just be wealth alone. How much does a tube of toothpaste cost.

Me ? Yes, I live in S10 but then again I lived in a council house for the first 26 years of my life so I've seen boths sides of the coin and I know which one I prefer.

Open up the floodgates ......

I agree that there is a certaian type of snobbery in sheffield. I live in a edwardian villa in the lower Don valley(a terraced house off Stanifoth Road) same house Hunters Bar 150k+, mine 70K tops! I have a fairly decent job and people expect to live in another area, when people find out I live at Darnall they tend to look down at me. I like to pi** them off with my mortgage payment less than £200 a month which I bought only 5 years ago. As i am no mortgage slave I can enjoy life a little bit more!

Originally posted by t020
Or S11 or S17.

Oh, I'm not so sure about aspiring to live in S17.

There was petition presented to the city council on Wednesday by residents of Totley (S17), about the amount of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing. The petitioners were seeking additional police patrols, alcohol exclusion zones, and other measures to protect them and stamp out the plague of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing.

Got any better suggestions?

Originally posted by redrobbo
Oh, I'm not so sure about aspiring to live in S17.

There was petition presented to the city council on Wednesday by residents of Totley (S17), about the amount of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing. The petitioners were seeking additional police patrols, alcohol exclusion zones, and other measures to protect them and stamp out the plague of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing.

Got any better suggestions?

S17 as in Dore, not especially Totley.

Originally posted by Sony
Forgive me, and I don't quite know how to say this but the Uk as a whole have a lot of " common people"... By this I dont necessarily mean poor, but just plain thick..... It's very strange. If you go up Firth Park, you get quite a few people fitting in a certain stereotype; weekly shop @ netto (£10 to feed the whole family for the week) the rest on booze and fags. If you have a conversation with them, its generally very uninteresting, mostly what happened @ the pub last nite, who they slagged off etc...

Then you go to the other side of the city, lets say S10, and you get what I can honestly call " normal people". They say hello to you, they respect each other's proprety, and, again, generally you can have a good conversation with them.

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

You are brave Sony as at least being honest by saying you do suffer this behaviour. I think many of us do

I agree there are parts of Sheffield which is similar to as you have described Firth Park. Although many of these types/groups are genuine, nice people and are happy with their lives

I think to class only S10/S11/S17 as the only great areas is a little naive though. I live out in a part of S20 and feel it's one of the better areas of Sheffield but for £100k less

I also think some of our councillors suffer with this and often live in the past. Hence why Sheffield often falls short!

Originally posted by Sony
I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

Sorry to hear that your previous experience of living in North Sheffield has scarred you for life.

Sadly, you never did tell us in what area of Sheffield this (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43050) happened.

Come on, a careless parent is a careless parent whatever their income. I worked in a Dearne valley school, in a highly deprived area and the kids' dads were brilliant, really engaged with what their kids were doing, helping out at school all the time. Yes, most of them were a bit down at heel, but they did care. When a family has little money they buy cheap food hence the higher incidence of tooth decay in kids from those areas. And before anyone starts going on about how vegetables are cheap, when you've not got much money a cheap packet of biscuits or can of value lager is an affordable pleasure to look forward to.

Does having little money really mean you don't care about your kids? What about the families who are hardly ever together because of working longer hours to pay for bigger houses in better postcodes?

But as for having a better postcode, I live in S2, and the insurance here is far lower than in S10 and S11. It's in the catchment for King Edwards and other good schools. It's only 5/10 minutes to town as opposed to the hour it can take from Dore. I'm near both Waitrose and Netto. We've got all sorts of people here, and I'd rather have that than live in either a sink estate or a middle class ghetto.

Originally posted by Abdul
Sorry to hear that your previous experience of living in North Sheffield has scarred you for life.

Sadly, you never did tell us in what area of Sheffield this (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43050) happened.

Abdul you are such a daft bloke. Ahhhh and for your information, I was visiting a mate on Lindsay road. We went to the Sicey pub. Need I say more........

Originally posted by Sony
Abdul you are such a daft bloke.

Wow! Did you work that out from my postcode?

Congratulations :clap:


Originally posted by Sony
...and for your information, I was visiting a mate on Lindsay road. We went to the Sicey pub. Need I say more........

Makes me wonder why you ever return here :hihi:

Originally posted by Abdul
Wow! Did you work that out from my postcode?



It may have something to do with it yes.

Originally posted by Mathom
Come on, a careless parent is a careless parent whatever their income. I worked in a Dearne valley school, in a highly deprived area and the kids' dads were brilliant, really engaged with what their kids were doing, helping out at school all the time. Yes, most of them were a bit down at heel, but they did care. When a family has little money they buy cheap food hence the higher incidence of tooth decay in kids from those areas. And before anyone starts going on about how vegetables are cheap, when you've not got much money a cheap packet of biscuits or can of value lager is an affordable pleasure to look forward to.

Does having little money really mean you don't care about your kids? What about the families who are hardly ever together because of working longer hours to pay for bigger houses in better postcodes?

But as for having a better postcode, I live in S2, and the insurance here is far lower than in S10 and S11. It's in the catchment for King Edwards and other good schools. It's only 5/10 minutes to town as opposed to the hour it can take from Dore. I'm near both Waitrose and Netto. We've got all sorts of people here, and I'd rather have that than live in either a sink estate or a middle class ghetto.

there will be incidences of bad parenting amongst all socio economic groups, but I'd postulate that it's more prevalent amongst the lower groups. Maybe that's due to the higher incidence of 'accidental' pregnancy amongst the lower se groups.

Originally posted by Sony
I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

It's nice to see people who are very pleased with themselves. Though in my experience "good conversation" isn't something I would associate with such individuals - unless you define "conversation" as "talking about themselves ad infinitum".

You'll find good and bad in all areas of any city. Making assertions about people's characters based solely on where their mail happens to be delivered is daft.

Originally posted by amhudson119
Have you as city residents noticed that in those "cities" list, Sheffield is always missing.

It never gets pinpointed on national weather maps, never in the list of "large cities", even though you are the fourth largest.


That's because there isn't an airport with a weather station.

Doncaster is really coming up on the rails in all sorts of ways.

I used to think that Sheffield was full of inverted snobs when I was younger. People at school and college seemed to look down on you for living in Dore, well that's how it felt.

Does anyone else remember the Hallam DJ who used to have phone ins and grade everyone by how 'shi shi' their post code was - S17 being the 'shi shiest!'

My mate used to work at the Beauchief Hotel, he says people used to phone up and say "This is Mrs Smith, from Dore", and expect to get a table even when the restaurant was fully booked.

He once got a letter from someone in a posh area and it said "From the desk of Mr & Mrs Jones....", he replied "Dear Mr & Mrs Jones's desk.....".

However some of the very rich customers were the nicest people, it was the ten-bob millionaires with their Range Rovers and chunky gold jewelery that were the problem.

Originally posted by nick2
However some of the very rich customers were the nicest people, it was the ten-bob millionaires with their Range Rovers and chunky gold jewelery that were the problem.

I can see your point. My Grandmother would always talk of 'old' and 'new' money and for the most part I thought she was being a snobby old bat. However, I was at Univeristy with an aristo. His parents were titled and he had a private income to rival a CEO. He dressed in rags, lived in a million pound dank hovel, subsisted almost entirely on toast and extremely expensive wine and was a thoroughly nice chap.

Conversely, I've met people who remind me painfully of the 'considerable richer than yow' characters of Harry Enfield.

It's dangerous to generalise about people as a whole, but no matter what one's means are, a little bit of modesty, civility and reason go an awfully long way.

Must echo both the above having been in the service sector for a few years now. Some of the loveliest people to serve are from opposite ends of a scale. The really wealthy and also the really hard up. I love the diversity of it all. I also love not being totally dependent on whether or not the flash ones buy anything. Some of them get really stroppy when I assume an air of complete indifference towards them, thankfully this is a rare occurence!

Originally posted by ADC_28
I can see your point. My Grandmother would always talk of 'old' and 'new' money and for the most part I thought she was being a snobby old bat. However, I was at Univeristy with an aristo. His parents were titled and he had a private income to rival a CEO. He dressed in rags, lived in a million pound dank hovel, subsisted almost entirely on toast and extremely expensive wine and was a thoroughly nice chap.

Conversely, I've met people who remind me painfully of the 'considerable richer than yow' characters of Harry Enfield.

It's dangerous to generalise about people as a whole, but no matter what one's means are, a little bit of modesty, civility and reason go an awfully long way.

this is def true in sheff - there are inverted snobs AND snobs in sheff.

i think like u say ADC_28 the 'considerably richer than you' types are the snobs in sheffield - i used to get the tram to work and always these awful women from john lewis sat near me. they thought they were better than me and everyone else - why? i think because they worked in john lewis. they still lived in S6 like i do. and i have a career job unlike a shop worker like them!

in fact the only people that have ever started a pleasant conversation with me on the tram were from winn gardens.

i think the 'real' s10,s11,s17 people dont think they are better, its those that make the money, not those who just have it.

but some locals have made snydy inverted snobbish comments to me in the past because i came here to uni.

its a weird way to be!

Originally posted by redrobbo
Oh, I'm not so sure about aspiring to live in S17.

There was petition presented to the city council on Wednesday by residents of Totley (S17), about the amount of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing. The petitioners were seeking additional police patrols, alcohol exclusion zones, and other measures to protect them and stamp out the plague of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing.

Got any better suggestions?

I know what they mean. I have seen groups of rough looking youths hanging around a bus shelter in Totley, which I always thought was supposed to be a 'good' area.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I know what they mean. I have seen groups of rough looking youths hanging around a bus shelter in Totley, which I always thought was supposed to be a 'good' area.

Totley isn't that posh, there is a massive council estate there, the people who live there just try to make out it's posh.

The best 'snobs' are the ones who work on division St - Toni&Guy, B2B, GStar etc. You enter the shop and they look at you like you are scum! But excuse me lamebrains, you are just shopworkers with crappy lil jobs, who wouldn't get paid if the likes of me didn't have careers and label fetishes pah!!!

Agree about the staff in B2B, but the staff in G-star are always realy nice and actually help you get what you want.

julz thats exactly what i was trying to say too! losers eh!

Originally posted by empea
- i used to get the tram to work and always these awful women from john lewis sat near me. they thought they were better than me and everyone else - why?

Because you were telepathic and could tell what they were thinking about you. Telepathy unsettles people like you would not believe.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Does anyone else feel there is something of a culture of inverted snobery in Sheffield?

The type of thing I mean is disdain for "soft southerners" and the like. Even people from Dore or Totley seem suspect let alone anyone from another part of the country.

It also seems to be linked to a ceratin sort of idea, such as, 'what a shame steel works closed and Meadowhall opened' etc. Do people know what I am getting at?

Inverted snobbery?! WTF?! This coming from some who can't spell.. :loopy:

2 b's in snobbery, ceratin is not a word.

Originally posted by Rich
Inverted snobbery?! WTF?! This coming from some who can't spell.. :loopy:

2 b's in snobbery, ceratin is not a word.

you mean "someone".

and I beg to differ on ceratin;

ceratin

n : a fibrous scleroprotein that occurs in the outer layer of the skin and in horny tissues such as hair feathers nails and hooves [syn: keratin]



Although probably not what they meant.

Originally posted by ADC_28


It's dangerous to generalise about people as a whole, but no matter what one's means are, a little bit of modesty, civility and reason go an awfully long way.

A very valid point.

I recall at school, this new lad joined who just couldn't keep his mouth shut about how well-off his parents were.

Both his father and my father at the time drove Rolls Royces (I jest not). Ofcause, with his spout, everyone knew about it.

One day he came up to me and asked: Why is it you've got many friends and you're well liked whereas I have no friends of any significance and if anything people actually dislike me?

My answer was that I kept my mouth shut regarding my family's finances (and father's choice of car) whereas he was trying to win friends by saying how well-off he was!

He took my advice to heart and infact we became best of friends.

Can I also add that when I used to go on deliveries (delivering bathroom suites and/or central heating) the more deprived the area the higher the chance of getting a tip from the customer.

You'd rarely get tips from customers from the 'rich' post-code areas, more likely a telling-off for not using 'the workman's entrance'. So, a £300 suite delivered to Page Hall would almost guarantee a tip for the driver and me; a £3000 suite to S17 (for example) would not.

Interesting thread.

Very true that snobbery most often comes from people with no real reason to be snobbish.

At the weekend a little girl at my son's nursery in S11 had a birthday party. Eight kids were invited; four sets of parents replied and three kids went (including my boy).

Of the four that didn't reply, one has a scatterbrained mum; fair enough. The other three are the 4x4-driving, hatchet-faced new-money types who a) never let on to you in the car park, b) don't speak to the staff unless they're complaining, and c) are so against the idea of community, mucking in, mutual respect etc that they don't even reply when their kid gets invited to a birthday party by someone they don't know.

The nouveau riche are absolutely the worst sort of people; give me an honest Chav or scruffy old-money any day of the week.

[mbatey]

Originally posted by Sony
Forgive me, and I don't quite know how to say this but the Uk as a whole have a lot of " common people"... By this I dont necessarily mean poor, but just plain thick..... It's very strange. If you go up Firth Park, you get quite a few people fitting in a certain stereotype; weekly shop @ netto (£10 to feed the whole family for the week) the rest on booze and fags. If you have a conversation with them, its generally very uninteresting, mostly what happened @ the pub last nite, who they slagged off etc...

Then you go to the other side of the city, lets say S10, and you get what I can honestly call " normal people". They say hello to you, they respect each other's proprety, and, again, generally you can have a good conversation with them.

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

Originally posted by Ousetunes
You'd rarely get tips from customers from the 'rich' post-code areas, more likely a telling-off for not using 'the workman's entrance'. So, a £300 suite delivered to Page Hall would almost guarantee a tip for the driver and me; a £3000 suite to S17 (for example) would not.

I know a couple of "tradesmen" who add an extra £200 onto their bill when working in the "posh" parts of Sheffield. They know people won't question it because part of having work done is bragging at dinner parties about how much it cost :)

WHAT!!!? there are many good areas in Sheffield that are great to live in. They may not be as affluent as those in the West end but there are some great people who live there and believe me they are so much more pleasant and appreciable than some.

I work in those areas, S10, S11 and S17 and yes they are very nice, pleasant to look at areas; leafy, manicured lawns and hedges, latest reg cars on the drives...oh and paved drives at that too..., slightly wider roads than some other districts, less road calming measures than say Scott Road at S4.

Oh yes now, looking More closely at S10, S11 and S17......, they ALSO have dog crap on the streets, litter, empty houses, serious noise complaints, major defects on the drainage system allowing s@*t to cascade down the roads and e v e r y o n e walks through it, brattish children, drug taking individuals, drunks........the list goes on.

Oh dear not much different to the rest of Sheffield is it????

Originally posted by Sony
Forgive me, and I don't quite know how to say this but the Uk as a whole have a lot of " common people"... By this I dont necessarily mean poor, but just plain thick..... It's very strange. If you go up Firth Park, you get quite a few people fitting in a certain stereotype; weekly shop @ netto (£10 to feed the whole family for the week) the rest on booze and fags. If you have a conversation with them, its generally very uninteresting, mostly what happened @ the pub last nite, who they slagged off etc...

Then you go to the other side of the city, lets say S10, and you get what I can honestly call " normal people". They say hello to you, they respect each other's proprety, and, again, generally you can have a good conversation with them.

I know what most of you will say, there are decent people in every area of every city anywhere, but as a general rule, there is no way I'd move to any other postcode in Sheffield. S10 S11 S17 are great, the rest you've got to be careful who your neighbours will be.......

I live near firth park .I care a great deal about my kids and so do most people who live round here and yes we do buy toothpaste.We dont all shop at netto or take drugs.A lot of people round here work hard and have nice homes.

I was born in what is now S20, back then it was good old S19, Beighton, a sleepy/rough mining village, with an inbred village mentality. I grew up smart and went off to Manchester University, then came back. Have since lived in S10 (burgled once, attempted burglary on 2 other occasions thankfully we were in, and threatened with violence once), then moved to S8 ( leafy, bohemian, street youths hanging around, dog turds on the pavements) and then through a financial downturn moved to Longley S5, a supposedly 'rough' area. Oddly enough have not had any trouble whatsoever, and yes I do shop at Netto, also at Morrisons, and Tesco. I am a non smoker, and drink maybe 2 pints a week, usually less.
I may be an exception, but I like my neighbours, and they are not 'vile rude chavs'.

Originally posted by bassplayer
WHAT!!!? there are many good areas in Sheffield that are great to live in. They may not be as affluent as those in the West end but there are some great people who live there and believe me they are so much more pleasant and appreciable than some.

I work in those areas, S10, S11 and S17 and yes they are very nice, pleasant to look at areas; leafy, manicured lawns and hedges, latest reg cars on the drives...oh and paved drives at that too..., slightly wider roads than some other districts, less road calming measures than say Scott Road at S4.

Oh yes now, looking More closely at S10, S11 and S17......, they ALSO have dog crap on the streets, litter, empty houses, serious noise complaints, major defects on the drainage system allowing s@*t to cascade down the roads and e v e r y o n e walks through it, brattish children, drug taking individuals, drunks........the list goes on.

Oh dear not much different to the rest of Sheffield is it????

Shh, don't tell t020! He thinks Eccleshall is heaven on earth! :D

Sorry Mods, just a little joke!

There are posh people scattered all around Sheffield admittly more so around Dore and Whirlow but even from our own streets we're not far from a posh person. I don't think posh people are particulary snobby but they do have different opinions and views.

there's no common set of views or opinions, so it's hardly suprising that anyone has different ones.

What exactly identifies someone as posh?

Originally posted by Cyclone
What exactly identifies someone as posh?

Yeah, how do you know if someone's posh or not?

Originally posted by JonJParr
Yeah, how do you know if someone's posh or not?

Posh people get out of the shower for a pee.

Originally posted by nick2
Posh people get out of the shower for a pee.

You have a good memory Nick. Indeed I don't pee in the shower therefore I must be posh.

Following Nicks logic I guess I must be a commoner then....

:shocked:

Originally posted by JonJParr
You have a good memory Nick. Indeed I don't pee in the shower therefore I must be posh.

Also, posh people can't eat chips without a fork, realy posh people can't eat them without a plate, and incredibly posh people wouldn't even admit to eating chips at all.

:)

I'm making this up as I go along.

Originally posted by JonJParr
Yeah, how do you know if someone's posh or not?

Good question! Doesn't it depend on the background and how weathly the person is?

Originally posted by Kerry_Lou
Good question! Doesn't it depend on the background and how weathly the person is?

I don't think it depends on wealth, otherwise 'new money' would suddenly become posh, which clearly isn't true.

It might have something to do with upbringing, but then I don't think being well mannered and polite is being posh.

Snobbery exists everywhere its a part of society. It is all to do with how you are brought up and what class you come from. Sociologists have said its almost impossible to switch from one class to another. Working class can never be Middle class and middle can never be Upper and vise versa. But people tend to stick to their own classes anyway regardless as social standing that comes along with each class. It will probably always be like this

Originally posted by lilemma22
Snobbery exists everywhere its a part of society. It is all to do with how you are brought up and what class you come from. Sociologists have said its almost impossible to switch from one class to another. Working class can never be Middle class and middle can never be Upper and vise versa. But people tend to stick to their own classes anyway regardless as social standing that comes along with each class. It will probably always be like this

LOL - you should look up the previous several threads on class before opening that can of worms. But this was about what makes someone posh or not, not what class they belong too.

Here's dictionary.com's definitions of the word.

posh
adj. posh·er, posh·est

Smart and fashionable.


Word History: “Oh yes, Mater, we had a posh time of it down there.” So in Punch for September 25, 1918, do we find the first recorded instance posh, meaning “smart and fashionable.” A popular theory holds that it is derived from the initials of “Port Out, Starboard Home,” the cooler, and thus more expensive, side of ships traveling between England and India in the mid-19th century. The acronym POSH was supposedly stamped on the tickets of first-class passengers traveling on that side of ships owned by the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company. No known evidence supports this theory, however. Another word posh was 19th- and early 20th-century British slang for “money,” specifically “a halfpenny, cash of small value.” This word is borrowed from the Romany word påh, “half,” which was used in combinations such as påhera, “halfpenny.” Posh, also meaning “a dandy,” is recorded in two dictionaries of slang, published in 1890 and 1902, although this particular posh may be still another word. This word or these words are, however, much more likely to be the source of posh than “Port Out, Starboard Home,” although the latter source certainly has caught the public's etymological fancy.

adj : elegant and fashionable; "classy clothes"; "a classy dame"; "a posh restaurant"; "a swish pastry shop on the Rue du Bac"- Julia Child [syn: classy, swish]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=posh

does it actually have a modern meaning though, it certainly isn't used to mean "smart and fashionable".

Originally posted by Cyclone
it certainly isn't used to mean "smart and fashionable".

especially not when refering to the corderoy clad, sandal-wearing, anorak owning people you see in Endcliffe Park of a weekend.

I think a lot of people confuse being 'posh' with being 'well-brought-up'. By well-brought-up I mean generally well-mannered, well-spoken and considerate of others, well behaved in public.

Sadly, people who're merely polite, have a good education, don't speak with a regional accent, and live in a nice area often seem to get called 'posh'.

Personally, I would use the word 'posh' as a bit of a derogatory term to describe people who think they're better than they are, and who appear to enjoy trying to display that supposed superiority, perhaps through ostentatious, unnecessary displays of wealth. 'Jumped-up' would be another term. The 'nouveau riche' would fall into this category - wealthy, but usually as common as muck, who wouldn't understand the meaning of 'class' if they fell over it. 'Posh Spice', for example.....

Posh equals having Illusions of Grandeur.....

Hope that all made sense - I was feeling my way there. Think my brain's a bit scrambled this afternoon!

StarSparkle :)

Draping a jumper around your shoulders = posh.

Tying a jumper around your waist = common.

Does anyone know of a reason why this is?

StarSparkle, that's the definition I was taught by my Mum as a child: Posh meaning someone who thinks they are all that, but aren't. ;)

Originally posted by segasonic
StarSparkle, that's the definition I was taught by my Mum as a child: Posh meaning someone who thinks they are all that, but aren't. ;)

Cheers, Segasonic! :thumbsup:

Glad I made some sense - I knew what I wanted to say, but I was having a lot of trouble getting it down coherently!

StarSparkle :)

agree with both of you.
hate people who talk "with a plum in their gobs" & think theyr'e better than others.
dont like southerners though at all - they do think they invented the world.(lol)

Originally posted by nick2
I know a couple of "tradesmen" who add an extra £200 onto their bill when working in the "posh" parts of Sheffield. They know people won't question it because part of having work done is bragging at dinner parties about how much it cost :)

They must have more money than sense then. Anyone who thinks they can rip off people just because they assume them to be well off deserves to get found out and reported to their superiors.

I'm not sure I think most rich people are an easy target for cowboys etc. Afterall, they didn't get rich by being gullable. I think the rouge traders tend to target the more vulnerable (often older) people who they think won't realise what bad value they are offering.

Originally posted by Rich
Inverted snobbery?! WTF?! This coming from some who can't spell.. :loopy:

2 b's in snobbery, ceratin is not a word.

And this coming from someone who has had a likeness of the Crown and Glove landlord tattooed on his left buttock. :hihi:

What class!

Originally posted by Greenback
Draping a jumper around your shoulders = posh.

Tying a jumper around your waist = common.

Does anyone know of a reason why this is?

If it is a nice girl it covers up her bum - that's why it is so frowned upon, nothing to do with class.

Originally posted by Greenback
Draping a jumper around your shoulders = posh.

Tying a jumper around your waist = common.

Does anyone know of a reason why this is?

Unfortunately, for a jumper to drape nicely over your shoulders, it needs to be flimsy enough to fall just right.
As such it is a fashion accessory as opposed to something to keep you warm.

If you try and "drape" any of my jumpers, you will look like "The Hunchback of Notre Dame"!

Look back over some publicity shots of old movie stars and you will see waist knotting going on!

Originally posted by slimsid2000
They must have more money than sense then. Anyone who thinks they can rip off people just because they assume them to be well off deserves to get found out and reported to their superiors.

I'm not sure I think most rich people are an easy target for cowboys etc. Afterall, they didn't get rich by being gullable. I think the rouge traders tend to target the more vulnerable (often older) people who they think won't realise what bad value they are offering.

independant tradesmen don't generally have superiors, unless you mean report them to their wife.

Willman - surely this is reverse snobbery, you dislike people who have what you consider to be a posh accent.

I don't think it's really for you to judge or be so opinionated on what her friends choose to spend their money on.


How can you credibly say that someone who lives in S8 is necesarilly more "sensible" than someone who chooses to live in S10? Or that they are better at budgeting.

You have no idea as to what is important in their life.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Shiesh - I'd say that just makes you a little more sensible and probably better at budgetting your finances than your friends.

Buy a house that you like, but not to the point of it spoiling other areas of your life, that's just silly.

Originally posted by RichD
I understand 'inverted snobbery' to be an unwillingness to improve your station or better yourself, and a sneering type of view of anyone who does.

Yes, I agree with you RichD - and the topic seems to have swung to some degree from inverted snobbery to snobbery.

Originally posted by Redrobbo
There was petition presented to the city council on Wednesday by residents of Totley (S17), about the amount of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing. The petitioners were seeking additional police patrols, alcohol exclusion zones, and other measures to protect them and stamp out the plague of anti-social behaviour they are experiencing.


I'm fairly confident that anti-social behaviour is not higher in those affluent areas than in a lot of other, less affluent ones - I think it's more that the residents in these areas are less tolerant and are approching it in a well planned manner - ie: approaching the council about various schemes/partnerships.

From my experience of dealing with people from all walks of life in Sheffield, those from the so-called less wealthy areas are much more sociable, open-hearted, generous and down-to-earth than many I've met from the 'desirable postcode' areas.

I say 'so-called' less wealthy because a lot of the householders living in the 'posh' areas, especially the younger ones, are very far from wealthy in terms of disposable income, many of them are mortgaged to the hilt and up to their ears in debt.

And I'm not saying this because I'm envious of them living there, I'm in S10... And it isn't all it's cracked-up to be by some! ;)

have a chat with your local comp school or bobbies.
the days of "poor " people causing all the trouble are long gone. the main instigators are in schools are "middle" "upper working class" children with no parental control and more money than sense.

i dont dislike anyone really - i just find that usually people who talk "the queens english" are quite obnoxious.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
They must have more money than sense then. Anyone who thinks they can rip off people just because they assume them to be well off deserves to get found out and reported to their superiors.

Do you think Porsche, Harrods, The Savoy Hotel, Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc. charge the minimum amount of money they can to survive ?

Originally posted by nick2
I know a couple of "tradesmen" who add an extra £200 onto their bill when working in the "posh" parts of Sheffield.

This does indeed happen, but not in this house, although it has been tried.

But there are exceptions to every rule, I hope I'm one of them.

Anyone up for a game of croquet?

Okay from reading the threads we've established posh people tend to be well off but how weathly do you think someone has to be and act to be posh? People assume I am posh just because I went to a private school, I don't swear and my house is larger than most but none of that makes me posh

Originally posted by Kerry_Lou
I went to a private school, I don't swear and my house is larger than most but none of that makes me posh

I think living near Crystal Peaks made sure of that :)

Originally posted by Kerry_Lou
Okay from reading the threads we've established posh people tend to be well off but how weathly do you think someone has to be and act to be posh? People assume I am posh just because I went to a private school, I don't swear and my house is larger than most but none of that makes me posh

I don't think we really have established that, willman seems to thing that speaking correctly makes you posh, i'm not sure that i agree with that.

Actually, I will agree with you, they do tend to be well off, but don't have to be. So I doubt we can sensibly set a lower limit on what amount of $$$ is required.

BertieBasset - Firstly, that's an old post you've responded too, and secondly I believe that comment was invited, so it really is for me to express my opinon and make a judgement. If you choose not too, then just keep quiet please.

I think that posh is defined for me as those who consider money = better and money = automatic culture.

Since culture seems to come with an certain level of ability and social learning, it is more likely to happen when these things arevailable at any time, which money helps provide. Many people don't have the disposable income to go to an expensive restaurant, let alone with their kids and observe how people act. Many people can't afford lots of book in the house, giving the ability to read them whenever you choose. Many people don't have the money for a car making transport to places for events that could broaden their horizons.

My family is by no means rich but what we did have was an certain amount of disposable income that meant we had the ability to choose what to spend more on, which meant, they'd buy me a book instead of a new TV/game/action man, we'd always eat fresh stuff and i'd often be taken to galleries museums and parks and exsposed to things I think have made me respect others and my environment. My family helped with the other aspect of setting a great example for me, whcih is VERY important. We made sacrifices to live this life though, we still live in the house my dad bought originally (a small suburban terrace) we don't have a flash new car, nor a 72" widescreen television. It wasn't a sacrifice to us though, because They'd never wanted it, and so I've never learnt that is what many consider successful.

Success to me is a content life, good food, inspiration, love and mobility. To others it seems to the the latest gadgets, the prettiest partner, their kids in designer clothes, a big 4x4 outside and a huge house.

So as for inverse snobbery, I am proud to be common, if you are determining 'common' in terms of material success. Those who seem to think that it does seem to come from all classes, upper, middle and lower.

Wilf

Originally posted by BrainThrust
My family is by no means rich but what we did have was an certain amount of disposable income that meant we had the ability to choose what to spend more on, which meant, they'd buy me a book instead of a new TV/game/action man, we'd always eat fresh stuff and i'd often be taken to galleries museums and parks and exsposed to things I think have made me respect others and my environment. My family helped with the other aspect of setting a great example for me, whcih is VERY important. We made sacrifices to live this life though, we still live in the house my dad bought originally (a small suburban terrace) we don't have a flash new car, nor a 72" widescreen television. It wasn't a sacrifice to us though, because They'd never wanted it, and so I've never learnt that is what many consider successful.

Success to me is a content life, good food, inspiration, love and mobility. To others it seems to the the latest gadgets, the prettiest partner, their kids in designer clothes, a big 4x4 outside and a huge house.

So as for inverse snobbery, I am proud to be common, if you are determining 'common' in terms of material success. Those who seem to think that it does seem to come from all classes, upper, middle and lower.

Wilf

It sounds like your upbringing was similar to mine, BT. Education and good manners were the signs of success in my childhood.

Having a showy amount of material things - essentially bought for the purpose of making a person feel/appear somehow better than others - was regarded as the height of vulgarity.

To me, being 'common' has nothing to do with how much money you have, it's what your attitude is and how you behave towards others. People with real class have no need to prove it or shout about it - it speaks for itself.

StarSparkle

like this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/07/nlott07.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/11/07/ixhome.html) guy?

I think he's proof that money doesn't make you posh.

Yeah, then you get into the whole "old/new money" thing.

Money certainly can't buy you class.

Originally posted by Cyclone
like this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/07/nlott07.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/11/07/ixhome.html) guy?

I think he's proof that money doesn't make you posh.

or this (http://www.lucycarr.com/Emma_Bunton.jpg) guy?

Originally posted by nick2
I think living near Crystal Peaks made sure of that :)

Ok...

"Although probably not what they meant."

No, they probably meant 'cretin'.

:)

That guy in The Telegraph's article would what I would describe a 'yob'.

He may have won the lottery, but he's still a 'yob'.

:)

I think that everyone in Sheffield is common as muck and they are trying desperately to avoid being labled as such hence the need for the ridiculous status anxiety that plagues these boards!

superiors perhaps means Trading Standards here

Originally posted by Cyclone
independant tradesmen don't generally have superiors, unless you mean report them to their wife.

Willman - surely this is reverse snobbery, you dislike people who have what you consider to be a posh accent.

I am a sheffielder born and bred. I am neither a snob nor an "inverted"snob I eat what I want , I drink what I want, I am not wealthy nor am I poor I have no respect nor disrespect for those who think that, because they have got a few "bob" and drive a "merc" ( second car a four track to take the kid's to school ) that they are better than me. I do not envy anyone who think's that money is wealth, In fact I feel sorry for them. Sheffield is unique and I am proud to be a part of that "uniqueness" If others dont want to recognise Sheffield,then it is their loss. As for the "Moron" that think's shopping at "netto" and "lidl"living in Firth Park are "uninteresting" then what a sad person that is. Has anyone noticed the " two pint millionares" that seem to turn up half an hour before closing time.

My son was asked to go to lunch at a girlfriends house, and we knew that they were very posh, they didn't have lunch in the dining room, it was the dining hall, however, during lunch her mother said to him" now you know how the other half live"
So as posh as they were, it seems the charm school failed.

Originally posted by julz
The best 'snobs' are the ones who work on division St - Toni&Guy, B2B, GStar etc. You enter the shop and they look at you like you are scum! But excuse me lamebrains, you are just shopworkers with crappy lil jobs, who wouldn't get paid if the likes of me didn't have careers and label fetishes pah!!!

I hate those shops so much :rant:

As far as I see it, being a snob is nothing to do with your income, your postcode, how many material belongings you have, your level of education or even your manners. It's to do with how you treat other people who have 'less' than you have, or who could be perceived as being on a lower rung in the social order. Some real life examples of what I'd call snobbery:

Someone who leaves the price tag on their cushions so that when you have to move all 55 of them to sit down you can't help but notice that they are M&S and cost £20 each.

Tipping Aldi coffee into a Douwe Egberts jar before leaving it out on a desk at work.

A manager meeting a group of staff and asking where they went to school. The one who had been to Silverdale got all the attention. And later, a promotion.

Grumbling that the staff at their child's nursery are 'uneducated' and all speak with Yorkshire accents, and worrying that said child will pick up an accent.

Some of the 'inverted snobbery' I've seen is a form of protection against this. And it can be done to get a laugh out of the snob, too. A guy I was at college with led some girls on with a tale that his flat was furnished with orange boxes gleaned from the tip. And they believed him.

:hihi:

Dont worry slipsid2000, people from the upper class ghettos of Dore, Totley, Ranmoor and Fulwood are suspicious of and look down on ANYONE outside their own little "enclave" in the traditional non inverted snobbery manner!!!

Originally posted by Mathom
As far as I see it, being a snob is nothing to do with your income, your postcode, how many material belongings you have, your level of education or even your manners. It's to do with how you treat other people who have 'less' than you have, or who could be perceived as being on a lower rung in the social order. Some real life examples of what I'd call snobbery:

Someone who leaves the price tag on their cushions so that when you have to move all 55 of them to sit down you can't help but notice that they are M&S and cost £20 each.

Tipping Aldi coffee into a Douwe Egberts jar before leaving it out on a desk at work.

A manager meeting a group of staff and asking where they went to school. The one who had been to Silverdale got all the attention. And later, a promotion.

Grumbling that the staff at their child's nursery are 'uneducated' and all speak with Yorkshire accents, and worrying that said child will pick up an accent.

Some of the 'inverted snobbery' I've seen is a form of protection against this. And it can be done to get a laugh out of the snob, too. A guy I was at college with led some girls on with a tale that his flat was furnished with orange boxes gleaned from the tip. And they believed him.

:hihi:

I'll agree with that!

Originally posted by bassplayer
WHAT!!!? there are many good areas in Sheffield that are great to live in. They may not be as affluent as those in the West end but there are some great people who live there and believe me they are so much more pleasant and appreciable than some.

I work in those areas, S10, S11 and S17 and yes they are very nice, pleasant to look at areas; leafy, manicured lawns and hedges, latest reg cars on the drives...oh and paved drives at that too..., slightly wider roads than some other districts, less road calming measures than say Scott Road at S4.

Oh yes now, looking More closely at S10, S11 and S17......, they ALSO have dog crap on the streets, litter, empty houses, serious noise complaints, major defects on the drainage system allowing s@*t to cascade down the roads and e v e r y o n e walks through it, brattish children, drug taking individuals, drunks........the list goes on.

Oh dear not much different to the rest of Sheffield is it????

Erm, yes, it's quite a bit different in terms of:

- average earnings
- no. people claiming benefit
- population density
- life expectancy
- crime levels

Do some research for yourself..... S10, S11 and S17 are amongst the top in the whole country, let alone Sheffield, in all the above variables. Very different to the other half of Sheffield, I'd say.

Originally posted by Rich
Shh, don't tell t020! He thinks Eccleshall is heaven on earth! :D

Sorry Mods, just a little joke!

And wasn't it a corker?

Originally posted by Mathom
A manager meeting a group of staff and asking where they went to school. The one who had been to Silverdale got all the attention. And later, a promotion.


Well, it is a good school...

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Does anyone else feel there is something of a culture of inverted snobery in Sheffield?

The type of thing I mean is disdain for "soft southerners" and the like. Even people from Dore or Totley seem suspect let alone anyone from another part of the country.

It also seems to be linked to a ceratin sort of idea, such as, 'what a shame steel works closed and Meadowhall opened' etc. Do people know what I am getting at?

TOTALLY!
I grew up in Kent, where speaking correctly was encouraged. Consequently I have grown up with what some might think is a posh accent. I'm not posh or rich, and I certainly don't go round acting like I'm better that anyone, but I've noticed that people treat me differently to those with local accents. "reverse snobbery" is the perfect description for it!
The thing is, no matter how friendly I am, I still feel like people (typically people at local shops/bakeries for example) are a bit cagey with me sometimes because of my accent. I know it's stupid, but it's actually made me a bit conscious of my accent & I try to hide it, or 'yorkshire-ise' my voice, or speak with bad grammar on purpose to fit in!

I dislike snobbery, be it inverted or otherwise. My other half was a singer for many years, and experienced both types of snobbery. Often he worked in social/working men's clubs, where a favourite phrase was 'take us as you find us' - nothing wrong with that, unfortunately it never applied the other way. He has no regional accent (lived in various parts of the UK as a child), doesn't sink 10 pints etc, so was often labelled as 'soft' and 'posh' in those places. On the other hand, we lived in a fairly affluent area for many years, and some of the neighbours (usually those who hadn't been brought up with money) were very superior about anyone who was less well off, and thought that displaying their wealth, often tastelessly, gave them status.
Surely the way people behave is the important thing, whatever their financial situation or their postcode!

Originally posted by t020
S10, S11 and S17 are amongst the top in the whole country............ Very different to the other half of Sheffield, I'd say.

We expected you would.

Originally posted by t020
Erm, yes, it's quite a bit different in terms of:

- average earnings
- no. people claiming benefit
- population density
- life expectancy
- crime levels


Life expectancy? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it :D

Originally posted by BertieBasset
superiors perhaps means Trading Standards here

Who are going to do what? An independant can charge whatever they like, so long as they aren't taking advantage of someone with reduced mental faculties or otherwise acting in an illegal way.

Mathom - surely the coffee one just demonstrates that they don't have good taste in coffee.

Originally posted by Greenback
Life expectancy? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it :D

He's actually right. Poorer areas do have lower life expectancy than richer areas. I did some work on this at uni, and will see if I can find the figures for Sheffield.

Originally posted by Andy
He's actually right. Poorer areas do have lower life expectancy than richer areas. I did some work on this at uni, and will see if I can find the figures for Sheffield.

Really?

If so I would guess it's probably more to do with lifestyle than the fact that the elixir of youth flows freely from taps in S10, S11 and S17.

Also, even if it is true that moving up the road means you'll live longer, I would argue it's quality of life that's important. And living in the midst of a group of golf club types constantly mowing their lawns, trimming their hedges and moaning about taxes ain't my idea of a cracking great neighborhood.

Would you believe a difference as high as 20 years???

Life expectancy at birth
Life expectancy at birth in Locality 1, averaged over 1999-2003, was 75.8 years for men and 79.2 years for women. This was the lowest of the three localities in Sheffield West PCT. There are wide differences in the estimated life expectancies between the different neighbourhoods in the locality. Lowest life expectancy was in the City Centre, where the figure was 68 years for males and 70 years for females. In contrast, in Ecclesall life expectancy at birth for this period was 84 for males and just under 90 for females.

From: Sheffield West Primary Care Trust Report 2004 (http://www.sheffield.nhs.uk/westpct/resources/swpctdphreport2004-2.pdf)

Originally posted by Greenback
If so I would guess it's probably more to do with lifestyle than the fact that the elixir of youth flows freely from taps in S10, S11 and S17.


Absolutly. I can't find the work I did, but basically, the conclusion was that, however you measure "poverty", there is a big gap between parts of this city. Whether you look at life expectancy, educational achievement, health or anything else.

Each of these can be considered an indication of poverty in its own right, but equally each measure influences the others.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Who are going to do what? An independant can charge whatever they like, so long as they aren't taking advantage of someone with reduced mental faculties or otherwise acting in an illegal way.

If a plumber chooses to charge one person £100 an hour because he thinks they can afford it, but then charges someone else £50 an hour because they are a bit less well of I don't see what he is doing illegally, it's up to him what he charges, there are no laws saying "a plumber will charge £75 an hour".

It is illegal to make-up problems to get work, or use dodgy/substandard parts, or, as Cyclone said, take advantage of someone who isn't quite with it, but what you charge is entirely up to you. The customer can always say "no thanks, your too expensive", but someone in a posh area would never admit they couldn't afford to pay the plumber, and thats what they play on.

Call it inverted snobbery,call it what you want. Be a"SHEFFIELDER" and proud of it, I am. If whoever has a problem with sheffield folk, rich or poor,then the M1 and M6 meet at birmingham TA TA !!!

ok, then we can move back to sheff when u die at 68 and i live on til a mighty 90!!

Originally posted by Greenback
Life expectancy? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it :D

Request the latest health/deprivation stats from the NHS for proof. The SW areas are amongst the healthiest places in the UK and have high life expectancies.

Originally posted by cgksheff
Would you believe a difference as high as 20 years???

Life expectancy at birth
Life expectancy at birth in Locality 1, averaged over 1999-2003, was 75.8 years for men and 79.2 years for women. This was the lowest of the three localities in Sheffield West PCT. There are wide differences in the estimated life expectancies between the different neighbourhoods in the locality. Lowest life expectancy was in the City Centre, where the figure was 68 years for males and 70 years for females. In contrast, in Ecclesall life expectancy at birth for this period was 84 for males and just under 90 for females.

From: Sheffield West Primary Care Trust Report 2004 (http://www.sheffield.nhs.uk/westpct/resources/swpctdphreport2004-2.pdf)


Thanks for digging that out. Looks like the forum has many, many more years of t020 to come. :hihi:

Originally posted by t020
Thanks for digging that out. Looks like the forum has many, many more years of t020 to come. :hihi:

Ah, but the (surprising and frankly shocking) statistics don't say anything about the area, only about the health of its inhabitants. It is not necessarily a "healthy place" as you put it.

Originally posted by Greenback
Ah, but the (surprising and frankly shocking) statistics don't say anything about the area, only about the health of its inhabitants. It is not necessarily a "healthy place" as you put it.

It is a "healthy place" by definition - lowest levels of many diseases and a high life expectancy tends to indicate good levels of health amongst the population. I don't see why you find it so surprising that more affluent areas have better levels of health and vice versa. I would've thought it was common sense.

Originally posted by t020
I don't see why you find it so surprising that more affluent areas have better levels of health and vice versa. I would've thought it was common sense.

I find the disparity in life expectancy to be amazing, and don't really see why any sane person wouldn't be extremely distrurbed by the results.

What on earth are the people outside the uber-paradise you aspire to owning a home in actually breathing in during the day to reduce their chances of a fuller life so?

Originally posted by t020
I don't see why you find it so surprising that more affluent areas have better levels of health and vice versa. I would've thought it was common sense.

Surely areas with higher income are going to have more cars per household meaning more polution in the area, which could cause higher incidences of asthma, which probably isn't included in these kinds of statistics as it mainly effects children and isn't a major killer ?

I would have thought that living at the crossroads outside the Beauchief Hotel, with the traffic thundering past night & day, would be a 100 times less healthy than living next to the tram stop at ParK Grange (Norfolk Park) ?

That I would think is common sense.

Originally posted by Greenback
I find the disparity in life expectancy to be amazing, and don't really see why any sane person wouldn't be extremely distrurbed by the results.

What on earth are the people outside the uber-paradise you aspire to owning a home in actually breathing in during the day to reduce their chances of a fuller life so?

It's most likely down to lifestyle rather than any environmental factor, S10 has the same air as S1-65.
The difference will be in standards of health care, diet, excercise, levels of smoking, types of employment, etc...

Originally posted by nick2
Surely areas with higher income are going to have more cars per household meaning more polution in the area, which could cause higher incidences of asthma, which probably isn't included in these kinds of statistics as it mainly effects children and isn't a major killer ?

I would have thought that living at the crossroads outside the Beauchief Hotel, with the traffic thundering past night & day, would be a 100 times less healthy than living next to the tram stop at ParK Grange (Norfolk Park) ?

That I would think is common sense.

gas has this strange property of moving around and dispersing.

2 car households don't as a general rule sit with them at home running the engine, and buses and trucks aren't generally the cleanest vehicles.

I expect that the level of pollution from motor vehicles is almost directly proportional to the population density. Although when I say pop density, not the normal measure of it, but a real time actual measure, so the city centre's pollution probably rises throughout the day and then falls overnight.
The further you go from the centre and dense urban areas, the lower the vehicle pollution found.

And since affluent areas tend to be a) not too close to the centre, b) not densely populated, they've probably got relatively low levels of vehicle pollution.

I think pollution is a red herring in this case.

The main factors, in my opinion are, types of employment, level of education, standard of healthcare and standard of housing.

I always understood that the bigger houses occupied by the wealthier types were built to the South West so that the prevailing winds t the time blew all the smog pollution etc away from these areas. I would imagine the same applies now regarding vehicle pollution?

Originally posted by nick2
If a plumber chooses to charge one person £100 an hour because he thinks they can afford it, but then charges someone else £50 an hour because they are a bit less well of I don't see what he is doing illegally, it's up to him what he charges, there are no laws saying "a plumber will charge £75 an hour".



Of course it is not illegal but anyone with any sense (and most rich people are pretty savey) would know he was upping his prices in their case and either confront him or go elsewhere.

I don't think that most people with money are careless with it and don't care about being ripped off.

Originally posted by nick2
or this (http://www.lucycarr.com/Emma_Bunton.jpg) guy?

You swine - that man is my hero.:heyhey: :heyhey:

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Of course it is not illegal but anyone with any sense (and most rich people are pretty savey) would know he was upping his prices in their case and either confront him or go elsewhere.


They must pray on the small number of stupid rich people then, because it does realy happen, and people do realy pay.

You are joking about Mr Stringfellow, right ?

Originally posted by nick2


You are joking about Mr Stringfellow, right ?

No. He proves there is still hope for some of us.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Of course it is not illegal but anyone with any sense (and most rich people are pretty savey) would know he was upping his prices in their case and either confront him or go elsewhere.

I don't think that most people with money are careless with it and don't care about being ripped off.

you were suggesting that they should be reported though.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
No. He proves there is still hope for some of us.

Nooooooooooo!

You don't want to end-up like some ghastly leacherous mummified old fart.