There will be a tax protest today starting at 12ish and going on till after 1400. I think this is a go slow protest aimed at SCC and at conditions set by the Council. For those who are interested the route is -

Carlisle Street
Spital Hill
The Wicker
Park Square
High Street
Church Street
Leopold Street and
Pinstone Street

I wish they'd find some other way of protesting. Why do people feel the need to block the roads and cause traffic mayhem???

Originally posted by youwhatref
...For those who are interested the route is -

Carlisle Street
Spital Hill
The Wicker
Park Square
High Street
Church Street
Leopold Street and
Pinstone Street...
If they manage to follow the correct route, it'll be a first...

...they never do when I'm in a cab.

:mad:

Yeah, they will probably end up going the long way round. Church Street to Wicker via moorfoot and London Road. £8.70 mate.

According to Radio Sheffield, they're asking for some decent taxi ranks to operate from, which seems a fair enough request.

The number of spaces available at taxi ranks seems to have diminished in recent years with the Midland Station and Barker's Pool being two good examples.

I understand their concerns but agree that it isn't the brightest way to go about making their views known.

Still, if you want to flag a cab down, you know where they'll be!

i could understand if what they were after was a place with loos and maybe a building to sit in and eat their meal etc but all they seem to want are places to park and sit around.

To me the whole point of hackney cabs is that they ply for hire, ie they should be driving around looking for customers, not sat in a row miles away from where you need them ... private hire drivers aren't allowed to ply and yet you don't hear them moaning on endlessly about not having anywhere to sit and wait for customers.

try getting a cab in woodseats anytime - and i don't mean one that just happens to have been out to lowedges with a fare and is on its way back to town to sit on a rank ...

The rank at the station has temporarily improved as they've moved it to an old car park (old WHSmith car park I think) - but I still see people hanging around waiting at the wrong location so it might not be very well signposted! ;). But on Saturday evening it was back to mayhem in there yet again with cabs trying to cram three deep into the back street!

I think what is needed is not bigger taxi ranks but more taxi ranks. One would be good close to Moorfoot and they'd get a ton of business, as would be a better one at Moorhead. Maybe a few suburban ones would be useful too.

They have decent Taxi ranks,,,its called Ecclesall Road,why the feel the need to moan is beyond me as they do pretty much what the want anyway.
They park where they like,block whatever area they feel like,cause as many obstructions as they like,stop where they feel to be the most awkward spot,do u turns wherever the feel lke doing them,stop on dual carrageways to pick up a fair.

So yeh cabbies go for it.

just my luck, i hail a cab and he's on this protest! gonna take me another 2 hrs to get home!

Originally posted by tango2
They have decent Taxi ranks,,,its called Ecclesall Road,why the feel the need to moan is beyond me as they do pretty much what the want anyway.
They park where they like,block whatever area they feel like,cause as many obstructions as they like,stop where they feel to be the most awkward spot,do u turns wherever the feel lke doing them,stop on dual carrageways to pick up a fair.

So yeh cabbies go for it.

i think there point is that they are forced to stop where they shouldn't as there aren't enough ranks.

iv just seen about 60-80 black cabs going around park square roundabout at 12.10pm with police bikes around them

Sheffield Star article:

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1076053

Black Cab Drivers are complaining (amongst other things) that there are too many black cabs!

Who would be the first to complain if the Council had proposed cutting their numbers?

Please excuse me for not caring what these whiney maggots want to bitch and moan about! i personally feel that the driving "skills" of these so called drivers should be put into question (anybody who lives jkust off eccy road will side with me) yes they get a small amount of stick from a few but for the rest of us they are a pain in the arse!

Originally posted by cgksheff
...Black Cab Drivers are complaining (amongst other things) that there are too many black cabs!...
Isn't that called "protectionism", artificially restricting supply, so as to make things more advantageous for the few who actually provide a given service...

...and the logical loser in this equation, the consumer who has reduced choice.

At least I can agree with them on one point,
…So this protest is also to plead with the council to step up enforcement…
yep, catching the dodgy drivers can only be to the benefit of everyone, the customer and the genuine cabbie alike.

Source, Sheffield Today, Link:
http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1076053

why should they hold us up for their petty moans?

None of them appear to be able to drive safely, neither are they polite - hence why I will only use pre-booked private hire, at least they work for their customers usually meaning in a better service.

One thing taxi drivers forget is that they are in a customer service role - in the same way essentially as a call centre advisor.

from the star:


...Hafeas Rehman, secretary of the Taxi Trade Association, said: "This is about the conditions drivers are having to work under because of the council's decision not to set an upper limit on the number who can work in the city, the lack of rank spaces available, the proposal to close one and the fact that we generally feel let down," he said. "There are so few rank spaces that when we queue up behind the ranks waiting for a space drivers are getting parking tickets for simply wanting to do their job.

If parking behind the last taxi means being in a dangerous or illegal stopping place, then dont stop there and find somewhere else to park you silly man.

Below, we here the unbiased true view of what is actually happening:

John Bann, head of transport and highways, said regarding the King Street Rank Closure:
"There are only three spaces so taxis who want to use it have been parking in front of delivery entrances for nearby stores and on the pavement, getting in the way of pedestrians. Store owners contacted us to complain.
"We are currently working on a review of all taxi ranks in the city centre with the taxi rank association."

ahh, so they were causing a nuisance because they could not find anywhere safe to park like everyone else manages to.

Could they not go further out the city centre to ply trade or is that not possible?

Also, they are selective in customers on friday and saturday nights - on many occasions I've had taxis which were free go sailing past and then stop for the next pretty lady that they see!

Isnt it illegal for them not to stop if hailed (hackney licence)?

what was it all about anyway?

Originally posted by cgksheff
Black Cab Drivers are complaining (amongst other things) that there are too many black cabs!

Too many my arse! I've lost count of the number of times I've missed or been late for appointments because there's no taxis around. Even phoning gets the response "sorry gov, nothing available for an hour".

I spent an hour in the pouring rain last year walking back and forth between Morrisons and Hillsborough Corner trying to find a taxi to get to see my grandad who was dying in the Northern General. Don't tell me there are too many taxis.

--
JGH

taxis on a go slow and stopping all other traffic basically causing mayhem WHATS NEW they do that every day and evening how many times am i stuck behind a cab in sheffield city centre having to wait for a cab that has stopped to pick up some silly tart in a belt for a skirt not even bothering to indicate that their even stopping

I saw them yesterday and wondered what was going on. Made me laugh: times when I have been on critical mass bike rides, black cab drivers have always been the most vocal (and occasionally violent) critics of "bloody protestors blocking up the roads". Admittedly that was in London, but the black cab drivers there are, if anything, more friendly and considerate on the whole than those in Sheffield.

The Sheffield Taxi Trade Association presented a petition to the council earlier this year. They expressed concern that as there is no limit on the number of taxi licenses that the council can issue, there are problems making a living, thus forcing taxi drivers to work longer and longer hours. They have thus requested that the council impose a limit on the number of licenses that can be issued.

Some councils impose a limit, but Sheffield stopped operating a limitation policy some years ago.

The petition was sent to the Licensing Board, of which I am a member. A number of subsidiary issues were raised at the Licensing Board, including the number of taxi ranks available in the city, and out-of-town cabs coming into the city to ply for trade. I also raised the issue of pre-bookings not being honoured, as a direct result of two threads on the forum complaining about this matter - search under "disgraceful taxi service" and "shocking taxi service".

The Licensing Board sent the petition to the Strategic Resources and Performance Scrutiny and Policy Development Board for consideration of all these issues. I supplied copies of the posts on these two forum threads to the members of the Scrutiny Board as evidence. The Scrutiny Board has recently held a special meeting on this issue, and is due to meet again within a few weeks to make recommendations. The recommendations will then be sent back to the Licensing Board, where they will be considered.

The taxi trade petition and related issues are being treated very seriously by the council, and are being throughly scrutinised before recommendations are made.

Originally posted by redrobbo
The Sheffield Taxi Trade Association presented a petition to the council earlier this year. They expressed concern that as there is no limit on the number of taxi licenses that the council can issue, there are problems making a living, thus forcing taxi drivers to work longer and longer hours. They have thus requested that the council impose a limit on the number of licenses that can be issued.

Some councils impose a limit, but Sheffield stopped operating a limitation policy some years ago.

The petition was sent to the Licensing Board, of which I am a member. A number of subsidiary issues were raised at the Licensing Board, including the number of taxi ranks available in the city, and out-of-town cabs coming into the city to ply for trade. I also raised the issue of pre-bookings not being honoured, as a direct result of two threads on the forum complaining about this matter - search under "disgraceful taxi service" and "shocking taxi service".

The Licensing Board sent the petition to the Strategic Resources and Performance Scrutiny and Policy Development Board for consideration of all these issues. I supplied copies of the posts on these two forum threads to the members of the Scrutiny Board as evidence. The Scrutiny Board has recently held a special meeting on this issue, and is due to meet again within a few weeks to make recommendations. The recommendations will then be sent back to the Licensing Board, where they will be considered.

The taxi trade petition and related issues are being treated very seriously by the council, and are being throughly scrutinised before recommendations are made.


Serious scrutiny?
No sir, you people IN 2001 simply rubber stamped what was put in front of you by Mark Webster the legal chief at the council. He dreamed up a working model and plucked out a figure of 725 cabs and a similar silly number of private hire he needed and he told you it will solve all the problems. It has created a great deal more unrest, mainly by upsetting the balance of established trades.
The thread you refer to sir relates directly to private hire and mainly to Mercury, a company which has seen a large number of its drivers change over to the black cabs instead of the car resulting in drop in standards of service that company can give. At busy times instead of working off the radio they work the streets, keeping booked jobs waiting.
The original black cab trade on the other hand have suffered a drop in trade simply due to twice the number, with the council providing thirty one Ranking spaces for 635 cabs to work on (did you know that), get a dose of reality sir before jumping onto these committees with outlandish recommendations. Please don’t just follow recommendations by the bosses, give it some thought of consequences of your decisions. Frustrations on all sides seem to be the order of the day it seems.

tab1 - are you a cabbie? If so can you answer the query as to why hackney cabs don't use their unique ability to ply - actually to ply? Why do they want to sit on ranks all the time?

I dont want to have to walk to a rank to get a cab, I want to be able to flag one down in the street - which is what they are intended for surely?

When the council lifted the cap the idea surely was to have more cabs plying for hire ... not sitting around in rows, gossiping to one another half the day. Why can't you grasp the idea that hackneys should be driving about looking for customers?

IMO, the more evident you are on the streets, the more people will warm to the idea of looking for a cab, instead of booking a private hire car. In London for instance, you see cabs on the street all the time ... all over the place. Why dont you do that here?

i think localised ranks would be a good thing too....
one in woodseats would get good trade, broomhall, etc etc.... though i do agree i thought they had to ply their trade and I have also had them drive past me when flagged only to stop 25 yards up the road....

Originally posted by tab1
Serious scrutiny?
No sir, you people IN 2001 simply rubber stamped what was put in front of you by Mark Webster the legal chief at the council. He dreamed up a working model and plucked out a figure of 725 cabs and a similar silly number of private hire he needed and he told you it will solve all the problems. It has created a great deal more unrest, mainly by upsetting the balance of established trades.
The thread you refer to sir relates directly to private hire and mainly to Mercury, a company which has seen a large number of its drivers change over to the black cabs instead of the car resulting in drop in standards of service that company can give. At busy times instead of working off the radio they work the streets, keeping booked jobs waiting.
The original black cab trade on the other hand have suffered a drop in trade simply due to twice the number, with the council providing thirty one Ranking spaces for 635 cabs to work on (did you know that), get a dose of reality sir before jumping onto these committees with outlandish recommendations. Please don’t just follow recommendations by the bosses, give it some thought of consequences of your decisions. Frustrations on all sides seem to be the order of the day it seems.

For the record, the taxi delimitation policy occurred before my time on the council.

I have not "jumped" onto any committee.

I take my responsibilities as a member of the Licensing Board sufficiently seriously that I attended the Scrutiny Board meeting in my capacity as a member of the public. I listened intently to what the members of the Taxi Association had to say when addressing the Scrutiny Board. I have also read the government report on taxi limitation policies. I shall also attend the next Scrutiny Board meeting, again as a member of the public, in order to listen to their deliberations and to be fully acquainted with any recommendations that may be made before these issues come back to the Licensing Board.

I do not know to whom you refer when you mention "the bosses".

I have not formed an opinion on any of the matters currently before the Scrutiny Board, and I will act impartially, and without prejudice, on any recommendations that may be referred to the Licensing Board.

I can well understand that there may be frustrations. However, the taxi trade petition is receiving serious consideration via the Scrutiny Board process. It ill behoves you to make accusations of "outlandish recommendations" when the Scrutiny Board has yet to meet again and make any.

Originally posted by rubydazzler
IMO, the more evident you are on the streets, the more people will warm to the idea of looking for a cab, instead of booking a private hire car. In London for instance, you see cabs on the street all the time ... all over the place. Why dont you do that here?
Well said Ruby. I can hardly think of any taxi ranks in London (other than outside stations), yet there are taxis everywhere, it rarely takes me more than a couple of minutes to hail one. But the other day I walked from one end of Hillsborough to the other looking for a cab, not a single one on the roads. The only time I've ever managed to hail a cab in Sheffield has been when it's been returning from a drop-off, heading back into town to queue up at a taxi rank.

It's a real shame because, as already mentioned, it drives people to use minicabs which are often more unreliable and don't seem to be much cheaper than black cabs in Sheffield.

I do remember hearing a few years back that Hackney cabs aren't allowed to stop to pick people up within a certain distance of the city centre, they can only use taxi ranks. Is that true? If so, it seems rather crazy.

Originally posted by redrobbo
For the record, the taxi delimitation policy occurred before my time on the council.

I have not "jumped" onto any committee.

I take my responsibilities as a member of the Licensing Board sufficiently seriously that I attended the Scrutiny Board meeting in my capacity as a member of the public. I listened intently to what the members of the Taxi Association had to say when addressing the Scrutiny Board. I have also read the government report on taxi limitation policies. I shall also attend the next Scrutiny Board meeting, again as a member of the public, in order to listen to their deliberations and to be fully acquainted with any recommendations that may be made before these issues come back to the Licensing Board.

I do not know to whom you refer when you mention "the bosses".
I have not formed an opinion on any of the matters currently before the Scrutiny Board, and I will act impartially, and without prejudice, on any recommendations that may be referred to the Licensing Board.

I can well understand that there may be frustrations. However, the taxi trade petition is receiving serious consideration via the Scrutiny Board process. It ill behoves you to make accusations of "outlandish recommendations" when the Scrutiny Board has yet to meet again and make any.


On a personal note I do appologise redrobbo if I gave the impression of blaming you. I wrote ,"you people as a refference to the committee that took the outlandish recomendations of Mark Webster and rubber stamped the whole thing it seems without any questions in 2001.

rubydazzler
I am not a driver but connected with the garage supplies dealing mainly with taxi industry. To answer your question about plying for hire though you may acquaint yourself with simple economics of cost involved in, "driving around". Taxi ranks in shopping centers and stations are nothing new, but as Sheffield has developed over the years and having ranks only in the city centre, black cabs have become a city centre animal. This gap was filled by private hire where people would phone from home and get taxi service. Private hire would bring them into town and cabs would be a convenient alternative for return journey. That balance has been upset with too many cabs in town with little ranking space to pull up on. As for driving round and round just in case after twenty miles someone may flag the cab down to go two mile would not get many takers. This way at least people would know where the ranks are and they can get a cab. We simply need more convenient for the public ranks like it was said at woodseats and the moor or hallamshire hospital etc.

I'm still not convinced that if they were actually out there plying for hire that they wouldn't get more business ... if a cab is there where and when you need it - you'll take it. If you have to walk a mile to get it, why would you bother?

Suburban ranks seem a good idea - but where would you site them? Let's take Woodseats for an example. You might decide to site it, let's say, near the library where the road is at its widest ... why would anyone walk the threequarters of a mile from Tesco, with all their shopping, to the rank? They may as well phone for a private hire.

Or I'm waiting at the bus stop by the Dale and no bus arrives, if a cab came by I'd very likely flag it down rather than be late for my appointment. But - I wouldn't walk the quarter of a mile or so to the rank to jump into a cab.

I think that the hackney drivers have been spoilt over the years, given a captive market via the cap and always getting the fare increases they ask for. Now that they're actually being asked to behave like hackney drivers do in other cities, they don't like it. The protest the other day was a waste of time and diesel and just made them look mardy ...

Taxi drivers definitely do ply their trade in student areas, driving round in cricles (not literally) through Crookes/ Broomhill. Sometimes a bit too much actually - I tend to get a bit worried if a vehicle crawls along the road next me or stops just in front.

Must say I've never noticed a proper taxi rank in Sheffield city centre, so I can understand that protest. Was certainly a lot easier in Nottm.

Originally posted by rubydazzler
I'm still not convinced that if they were actually out there plying for hire that they wouldn't get more business ... if a cab is there where and when you need it - you'll take it. If you have to walk a mile to get it, why would you bother?

Suburban ranks seem a good idea - but where would you site them? Let's take Woodseats for an example. You might decide to site it, let's say, near the library where the road is at its widest ... why would anyone walk the threequarters of a mile from Tesco, with all their shopping, to the rank? They may as well phone for a private hire.

Or I'm waiting at the bus stop by the Dale and no bus arrives, if a cab came by I'd very likely flag it down rather than be late for my appointment. But - I wouldn't walk the quarter of a mile or so to the rank to jump into a cab.

I think that the hackney drivers have been spoilt over the years, given a captive market via the cap and always getting the fare increases they ask for. Now that they're actually being asked to behave like hackney drivers do in other cities, they don't like it. The protest the other day was a waste of time and diesel and just made them look mardy ...


The taxi industry is generally regarded about the same world over let alone your comparisons with other cities, and that regard is not something any taxi driver can be proud of. Just read back on here and they are referred to as maggots and so on. Other cities such as Leeds, Manchester, Nottingham, Birmingham to list a few have all retained a cap on the number of cabs in the city, how is Sheffield better by removing the limit?. If a cab driver can earn his crust then he can maintain his vehicle in a safe and reliable condition, and if his earning goes down to bear minimal then would you imagine him going without food or going without maintenance? We the public deserve better and safer cabs and that can only be achieved if cab drivers can afford to pay the cost of driving around empty for our convenience and also maintain, and when necessary replace their aging taxi cabs.
We want better service but to ask cab drivers to keep driving around local areas just for the fun of it would require a bigger fare increase than you or I would be willing to pay. As was pointed out in areas that they feel that they will get business they do go just driving around, like in student areas.
Cab driver said to me that he saw a line of private hire cars waiting outside the clubs on City Road and also pulled up, and sat there for twenty minutes watching all passengers just walk past to jump in private hire cars. He wasn't in a hurry to go back there again.
At the weekend you do get cabs plying for hire all over the show because there is more of a chance that someone may get fed up of waiting at a bus stop and flag it down, but during week that isn't the case. That is what Sheffield has always been like, it only comes alive at the weekend, so comparisons to London are not really valid.

Not being funny here, but is it not the case that most black cab drivers were upset at the numbers of black cabbies increasing because it directly affected the value of their own licences? As i understand some of these cabs with licences were selling as ongoing business for anything upto £30,000

Maybe this is a reason why some of the 'Mercury' drivers you describe in an earlier post as moving to black cabbing, as they were not having to pay this 'business goodwill' if you like, before getting out on the road.

My question is, if you are in the supply industry to cabs, surely an increase in black cabs is good for you at least?

Black cabbing is more of a cartel then a public service.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
Not being funny here, but is it not the case that most black cab drivers were upset at the numbers of black cabbies increasing because it directly affected the value of their own licences? As i understand some of these cabs with licences were selling as ongoing business for anything upto £30,000

Maybe this is a reason why some of the 'Mercury' drivers you describe in an earlier post as moving to black cabbing, as they were not having to pay this 'business goodwill' if you like, before getting out on the road.

My question is, if you are in the supply industry to cabs, surely an increase in black cabs is good for you at least?

Black cabbing is more of a cartel then a public service.


More the merrier for me sir but I was responding to the topic on this thread 1Man&hisBMW. I was doing ok with 300 cabs and 1600 private hire, and now we have 650 cabs and about 1250 private hire, my market hasn't changed in numbers at all. Thanks for your concern though.

The value of licence has always been about supply and demand like in any bysiness, a shop on the High Street would command a higher goodwill than one in the back streets, why should black cabs be any different? Particularly as every one of the cabs on the road at the time of lifting of the limitation had paid a goowill price at whatever the rate was at the time of purchase, so why blame him for being upset. The highest ever value in Sheffield has been about £20000 in Sheffield. That was paid by one unfortunate cabbie only a couple of weeks before lifting of the limitation. I don't think you can blame him for being a bit p****d off.
The European law was brought into play by the Dublin Taxi drivers who went through a similar situation and not wishing to suggest anything but the Irish authoriyies were forced to pay every taxi driver compensation averaging £11000 last year. There may be food for thought for redrobbo here or maybe the taxi union.
Mercury drivers are better than many but if a cabs are getting flagged down everywhere at weekends then even if they have got a Mercury radio they are not going to be working off it, thus keeping people waiting longer. I don't know about you but I remember Mercury being a good company but not so now.

Originally posted by tab1
More the merrier for me sir but I was responding to the topic on this thread 1Man&hisBMW. I was doing ok with 300 cabs and 1600 private hire, and now we have 650 cabs and about 1250 private hire, my market hasn't changed in numbers at all. Thanks for your concern though.

The value of licence has always been about supply and demand like in any bysiness, a shop on the High Street would command a higher goodwill than one in the back streets, why should black cabs be any different? Particularly as every one of the cabs on the road at the time of lifting of the limitation had paid a goowill price at whatever the rate was at the time of purchase, so why blame him for being upset. The highest ever value in Sheffield has been about £20000 in Sheffield. That was paid by one unfortunate cabbie only a couple of weeks before lifting of the limitation. I don't think you can blame him for being a bit p****d off.
The European law was brought into play by the Dublin Taxi drivers who went through a similar situation and not wishing to suggest anything but the Irish authoriyies were forced to pay every taxi driver compensation averaging £11000 last year. There may be food for thought for redrobbo here or maybe the taxi union.
Mercury drivers are better than many but if a cabs are getting flagged down everywhere at weekends then even if they have got a Mercury radio they are not going to be working off it, thus keeping people waiting longer. I don't know about you but I remember Mercury being a good company but not so now.

I think you are comparing two very different things. Goodwills are paid for businesses, given cabbies are self employed. The location is not always the main factor, its what the business is producing or has the ability to produce. Goodwills are not a rule of thumb, they are what people are willing to pay.

The council does not put a price on a goodwill, its personal choice if you choose to pay for a goodwill without investigating whether or not rule changes may affect your business. For example, if I had the only authorised franchise for McDonalds in Sheffield, I would expect to be paid a fair few pennies to sell my right to the profit from that business. However, did the council ever suggest they wouldn't lift the limit on the number of cabs in Sheffield? Was that ever a part of any contract taken out when the council first licenced black cabs?

If i was offered slot in a protected market such as black cabs once were, I too would expect to pay - but I think the main gripe is about cabbies not having to share their trade. If they are a true public service they should be aware that there is a change in the way the public of sheffield want to be treated when it comes to transport, and from this change the NEED to increase the number of cabbies is important. 300 cabbies for a city the size of sheffield is a pretty good bit of protectionism, but it can't go on forever.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
I think you are comparing two very different things. Goodwills are paid for businesses, given cabbies are self employed. The location is not always the main factor, its what the business is producing or has the ability to produce. Goodwills are not a rule of thumb, they are what people are willing to pay.

The council does not put a price on a goodwill, its personal choice if you choose to pay for a goodwill without investigating whether or not rule changes may affect your business. For example, if I had the only authorised franchise for McDonalds in Sheffield, I would expect to be paid a fair few pennies to sell my right to the profit from that business. However, did the council ever suggest they wouldn't lift the limit on the number of cabs in Sheffield? Was that ever a part of any contract taken out when the council first licenced black cabs?

If i was offered slot in a protected market such as black cabs once were, I too would expect to pay - but I think the main gripe is about cabbies not having to share their trade. If they are a true public service they should be aware that there is a change in the way the public of sheffield want to be treated when it comes to transport, and from this change the NEED to increase the number of cabbies is important. 300 cabbies for a city the size of sheffield is a pretty good bit of protectionism, but it can't go on forever.

Why do I get a feeling that you are totally missing the point? It was you who suggested that cab licenses were changing hands for thirty thousand, and I only corrected that the figure was lower. The premium on the license was a market rate at any given time, it did vary. When someone tries an explanation to a particular situation you argue over the semantics. The problem seems to be the wish to dictate how an established trade should be regulated by people who know nothing about the job.
Each cab is in effect an independent business, working within the regulations of the local council, as opposed to private hire who have to work for a licensed operator (like mercury). The business is provision of a service and as such has to produce a profit. That profit is after fixed and variable costs for things like maintenance and insurance and tax etc. If the wage left over is good then that will reflect in a higher premium etc. These guys are now struggling to make a living wage, hence the protests. Most major successful cities have number limit on cabs.
We supply in Reading where a license recently changed hands for £42000, and yet that is another place where after lifting limit they had to cap it again.
The need to increase? Indeed this protectionism can't go on for ever you write, one little point sir the figure of three hundred went four years ago, now we have about 700 cabs. That is what the protest was about in that the increase in number can't go on for ever, the market is limited.
Another gripe is that the cab drivers had offered to pay for an independent survey and proposed to abide by its proposals as to how many cabs are needed. They were ignored in favour of complete lifting of the limit and thus creating today’s problems.

Black cabbing is not a cartell and nor is it a charity, it is a public service which is used by many thousnds every week, but probabaly not so much by Forumers.

Originally posted by tab1
That is what the protest was about in that the increase in number can't go on for ever, the market is limited.

The market in Fish&Chip shops is also limited. Why should they be treated differently? If a person can't make a living selling fish&chips/ driving a taxi/ being a plumber/ fitting carpets, try something else.

--
JGH

Originally posted by jgharston
The market in Fish&Chip shops is also limited. Why should they be treated differently? If a person can't make a living selling fish&chips/ driving a taxi/ being a plumber/ fitting carpets, try something else.

--
JGH

Well said JGH.

Fact is, I'm not missing the point. It was you who compared them to the shops in the high street - a totally different thing altogether.... It was a protected market, as JGH said if you can't make a living try something else, in the same way everybody else has to. If there are 700 cabs now, that is only good for competition in the market. Relying on the fact that you may have a protected market is not good for the consumer. Fair play, its not a charity, but their fares reflect this aswell (they are not what you might call cheap).

I have every sympathy with those whose incomes have been affected, but lets not get confused here. It is a business, but one that should not be exempt from the hazards of running any other business in the city.

Black cabbies do pay alot for their cabs, insurance, licence fees and maintenance but its nothing less then what you would expect to pay elsewhere for the privelidge of being self-employed.

Originally posted by jgharston
The market in Fish&Chip shops is also limited. Why should they be treated differently? If a person can't make a living selling fish&chips/ driving a taxi/ being a plumber/ fitting carpets, try something else.

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JGH

That is an excellent idea JGH!!
A surprise in store for, you just try getting permission for a fish 'n' chip shop next door to an existing one. Maybe they too should be treated like cab drivers and anyone should be able to open a fish and chip shop anywhere they please, surely "that is good for the consumer".
As I responded earlier the more cabs the better it is for me. The cab drivers have my sympathy simply because whatever they do it's wrong according to the SCC. They are asking for is better working conditions across the board, with more ranks rather than evermore restrictions on parking.
One cabbie used an analogy that the baby doesn't get fed till it cries; and he said,"I think this baby may have just started to cry, somone has to take notice".

As for missing the point even window cleaning rounds command a premium. Why be surprised? It wasn't illegal to pay a premium to buy a taxi and indeed in most other major cities they choose to ignore your valuable advice and still operate that old system. Why can you not understand the bitterness of a cabbie who bought into a job and has seen his investment disappear overnight. why were the Irish authorities in Dublin forced to pay compensation to their taxi drivers after having done exactly what SCC has done? Are we to pick and choose laws as well according to our oppinnions?

Originally posted by rubydazzler


I think that the hackney drivers have been spoilt over the years, given a captive market via the cap and always getting the fare increases they ask for.

The Licensing Board did not assent to the fare increase that was last sought by the taxi trade association.

Originally posted by tab1

The European law was brought into play by the Dublin Taxi drivers who went through a similar situation and not wishing to suggest anything but the Irish authorities were forced to pay every taxi driver compensation averaging £11000 last year. There may be food for thought for redrobbo here or maybe the taxi union.


The policy decisions of the Licensing Board are open to judical review. The Licensing Board makes no decisions, even in individual cases, without first obtaining legal advice from a council solicitor. I too am not wishing to suggest anything, but thank you for your information tab1.

Based upon anecdotal evidence and my own observations, Black Cabs spend a large amount of time waiting at ranks (or beside ranks) for fares.
The classic example used to be at the railway station when 50 or more used to wait for up to an hour or more for a fare under the old forecourt.

This was a venue of choice for most of them and as with many other ranks it would appear to have become a social venue where passengers would feel as though they were an unwelcome interference in a group conversation.

I would like to know the average waiting time per day for Sheffield Black Cabs (I'm sure that I asked this elsewhere on the forum) because not many folk survive by working 50% of the working day as I suspect they do.

What would you suggest they do? Set up a street circus maybe.
What do MacDonald’s staff or debenhams staff do when there are no customers? You might suggest they dress better or might be more pleasant, tactful or even considerate to their passengers but don’t put a ban on them talking to their mates please. :hihi:
They did seem a lot but in that old rank at station I think maximum number you could get in was about twenty five cabs.

Maybe it’s an elitist thing that cab drivers are working class people and therefore struggle on trying to scrape a living. If they didn't drive cabs they probably would be bus or lorry drivers or perhaps manual workers somewhere. Its ironic that opinion here seems so anti taxi driver and yet we all accept with a smile the people who really rob us blind, the banks, the accountants, and the solicitors (charging £80 to write three lines on a letter). We complain when the taxi meter reads extra 20pence, and start dictating how they should do their job, I've not seen one thread on how solicitors should do their job. Maybe it's a superiority thing with some people. All these complaints about taxi drivers taking long rout they are not honest, believe me someone working at four o' clock in the morning taking drunks home getting abused being talked down to by inebriated punters who don't know (to borrow a phrase I read earlier in this thread) their elbow from their a***s for a £4.50 fare, has got to be nothing but honest. If he wasn't honest he might have been an accountant maybe?:rolleyes: Or at least comfortable in bed. Come on let’s live and let live.:thumbsup: