for those who av been to the game today and av a copy of the match day programme.... av you read fwd together "the sw business plan" ... ??
by 2011/12... the plan is promotion... it may read good in the programme but.. how realistic are the plans ??

without a takeover i cant really see us challanging for promotion .
investment in the squad is needed before we can make the top six

without a takeover i cant really see us challanging for promotion .
investment in the squad is needed before we can make the top sixdo you think wednesday will get the bums on seats numbers they are (wishing) to get... 16,500 next season?

i saw them before the game and it doesnt seem to outragous. i cant see us getting 16k season ticket holders though so if we dont get any or just 1 or 2 very average players because we didnt get the numbers we could end up struggling next season or worse, that would make the plans pretty pointless. the work on the ground sounds good, aspecially getting the north-west corner ready for use, will come in handy if utd mess up in playoffs. all in all it sounds good but i'm still dubious whether we will be ready for promotion in the timescale he has put on it

do you think wednesday will get the bums on seats numbers they are (wishing) to get... 16,500 next season?

Not a hope in hell!! We'll probably sell less than this season. Its too expensive.

do you think wednesday will get the bums on seats numbers they are (wishing) to get... 16,500 next season?

I would love to get a season ticket and help the cause but coz i work most Saturdays and late shifts during the week know I'd struggle to get my moneys worth.

I've renewed.

But I can't see us getting 16.5k.

I really don't know where this is going, I cannot see us selling many because prices are so expensive which then means we'll be selling our best players.

Is it only me that thought the Chairman sounded a bit desperate today?

I really don't know where this is going, I cannot see us selling many because prices are so expensive which then means we'll be selling our best players.

Is it only me that thought the Chairman sounded a bit desperate today?

We saw him at QPR and every1 was slagging him off about season ticket prices, he turned round and said if you dont like it fck off (his words not mine).

We saw him at QPR and every1 was slagging him off about season ticket prices, he turned round and said if you dont like it fck off (his words not mine).

Now come on Corker... you can't insult the new Messiah like that! I'm sure he's never used a curse word in his life.

I notice they decided not to issue the weekly update for renewals on Friday (after last week's huge 1012 tickets sold)... waiting to include any bought over the weekend I suppose, to bolster the total...

No serious promotion challenge until 2012, is that right? I'd be very disappointed to hear my board say that - in other words, we're not going to try and push on from 12th with the current funding - we're happy to just survive? Hardly likely to attract decent players, when you say that. It's not like Swansea, Preston or Burnley throw silly money at players, is it?


And now that we know you can attract over 30k for a meaningless game, the home attendances next season should be edging up that way...?

Good result today though - and made that 12th place your own (you've been stuck there forever it seems!) :)

We saw him at QPR and every1 was slagging him off about season ticket prices, he turned round and said if you dont like it fck off (his words not mine).

i heard someone on rs comment on that, not really on him saying that but i guess if he feels they have reduced them as best they can then it could annoy him a little. i would have 1 even at the prices they are but just wouldnt get my moneys worth:(

i heard someone on rs comment on that, not really on him saying that but i guess if he feels they have reduced them as best they can then it could annoy him a little. i would have 1 even at the prices they are but just wouldnt get my moneys worth:(

If you've got other commitments it's just the way it is, i'm sure you go when circumstances allow. At least hopefully you'll be able to benefit from reduced day prices on some of the games :)

If you've got other commitments it's just the way it is, i'm sure you go when circumstances allow. At least hopefully you'll be able to benefit from reduced day prices on some of the games :)

thats the hope. with it being categorised aswell now it might save me a few pennys. hate not being able to not have a season ticket but even with the so called reduced prices i see why people just cant/wont pay for a season ticket

Thing is about the season ticket moaners have they never heard of a break even price?

Thing is about the season ticket moaners have they never heard of a break even price?

Might they not say that as the next two seasons are only aimed as consolidating your place in the division, they'll wait until the targetted promotion push in 2012...and in the meantime just pick and choose games? Certainly if the cost of a season ticket was going to stretch your budget, you'd want to hear more positivity for next season? It's not just down to the fans to turn up in blind faith is it? It wasn't really the fans fault that you got into the brown stuff in the first place.

Could be an interesting summer PR wise at S6!

Fans want cheaper tickets yet more spending on the playing staff, coaching staff and facilities, unfortunately the maths don't add up.

Personally i'm happier of course to be paying less this season than last, and i'll be happy to see us keep our best players and get a few extra ones in the door.

if the plan is to go for promotion by 2012 then im disgusted, like sheff71 says, whats the point. preston, swansea, hull city, stoke city, i dont think they had a vast amount of money to burn on players and wages, but they made do with what they had and it worked.

I think he means by 2012, not wait 'til 2012 before 'having a go'.
A bit of 'decent' money for BL, and a few intelligent signings, and we could push harder next season.
Promotion? ... Can't see it or some considerables.
But I hope I'm wrong, as I've said before, promotion is the only way to get rid of our financial burden.
No sugar daddy's going to arrive in the near, or middle, future.

Or 'anytime soon' as we have to say these days. ;)

I think he means by 2012, not wait 'til 2012 before 'having a go'.
A bit of 'decent' money for BL, and a few intelligent signings, and we could push harder next season.
Promotion? ... Can't see it or some considerables.
But I hope I'm wrong, as I've said before, promotion is the only way to get rid of our financial burden.
No sugar daddy's going to arrive in the near, or middle, future.

Or 'anytime soon' as we have to say these days. ;)

It sounds more like they got their fingers burnt once already recently over setting an investment date too soon, and rather than saying you're going for promotion next season and risk fans having a go at failing to achieve this, they give some date a few years in the future, and therefore not give you any expectations...

For a club with currently the biggest capacity in the division, and having had four years back in this division to stabilise and cut costs, you really should be aiming for a minimum of top 6 next time... if the fans really did believe you were going for it, that'd surely lead to more renewals and bigger gates?

i cant see any promotion push until significant funds are made available for decent signings

I read it in the programme and it all sounds a bit desperate. 4.5m now and a "pledge" of topping it up to 6.5m...IF...they sell a "minimum" of 16,500 season tickets.

Mr Strafford can't raise expectations then say well sorry but you guys didn't buy enough season tickets so you can't blame me cos you should have bought more.

However, Strafford has given Wednesday a clear focus and direction. He is focusing on how Wednesday can maximise revenue and that means getting people through the turnstiles and into buying the Wednesday brand.

There are plenty of positives:
Refurbish the pitch (although I thought they did this at the end of every season)
Refurbish and increase facilities at the training ground. (no specifics here)
Development in the West stand reintroduce the north west corner. (but who wants to sit there its c**p don't bother and save money).
Refurbish the lower concourse in the North Stand to create a family enclosure.
A fan bar in the South Stand.
Beer on the Kop.
TV monitors in the social areas on the concourses.
Bars open earlier and then reopened after the game.
Buying tickets on line which can be printed out at home with barcodes to scan at the turnstiles.

The big negative with this is that; it assumes there is no new investment.
However I accept that you can't just sell a football club like a second hand car it has to be sold as a viable business both on the pitch and off it in order to do this you have to show how you are getting maximum revenue from the resources and investment you are putting in.

He has also published a sort of financial forecast (as a Plc Wednesday have a legal requirement to publish their accoounts and these figures just don't marry up):

What does he mean by "total football costs"? players wages last year were almost 13m yet he is quoting 6.7m with an increase of almost 50% to 9.1m for 2009/10 and less than 10% for the following seasons.

He quotes revenue of 12.1m but Wednesday had a turnover of almost 24m last season. Is this 12.1m before or after tax?

The figures published don't make any sense they might well have just made them up. More transparency please?

As supporters we can put up with the ups and downs however what we do deserve is respect.

My advice to Lee is; please don't treat us like idiots or take us for granted like the last Chairman.

When you say Beer on the Kop, do you just mean in the concourse? I didn't know they were able to allow fans to have alcohol in the seats (otherwise they'd all be doing it!). :)

Makes sense to leave that North West corner as the least important task, for the number of games where you'll get well over 30k, it's probably not worth prioritising... as and when you get promotion, do it then along with a general sprucing up of the ground?

For season tickets, do you still have the old style ones, or do you have credit card style electronic season cards yet? Much prefer these now at the Lane, can just stick it with your credit cards and not risk forgetting it on match day (and also can just renew the same card for another season, saving wasting resources on producing more new cards). Also handy for Cup ties too, they can just activate your existing card for home ties, again saving waste.

I for one are not good with figures, i have renewed my season ticket for next season and hope that we get somewhere near what the chairman wants but can't see it. The plan sounds good and as for selling beer on the kop then i don't think so, just me. Getting the corner done is the last thing on my mind save the cash and spend on players, if the corner was done what happens to segregation? I think we have had a decent season and have held our own as our position states all be it on a tight budget, next season i would like to see the club push on with afew quality signings and improve our position in the league and maybe, just maybe a push for a chance at a play off slot. If this happens then fans will come through the gates and fill the ground at any price all fans want to see is a good and successful team at Hillsborough

When you say Beer on the Kop, do you just mean in the concourse? I didn't know they were able to allow fans to have alcohol in the seats (otherwise they'd all be doing it!). :)

Makes sense to leave that North West corner as the least important task, for the number of games where you'll get well over 30k, it's probably not worth prioritising... as and when you get promotion, do it then along with a general sprucing up of the ground?

For season tickets, do you still have the old style ones, or do you have credit card style electronic season cards yet? Much prefer these now at the Lane, can just stick it with your credit cards and not risk forgetting it on match day (and also can just renew the same card for another season, saving wasting resources on producing more new cards). Also handy for Cup ties too, they can just activate your existing card for home ties, again saving waste.

I dont know; it just said "Beer will be available on the Kop for the first time" the trouble is there isn't much of a concourse at the back of the Kop I hope you will be able to take beer to your seat?

The season ticket system needs updating. Your right, the use of vouchers must cost the club a fortune.

The West stand should be pulled down and a complete new modern stand complex built there's enough area at the back to make it bigger than the East Bank without the poles.

I dont know; it just said "Beer will be available on the Kop for the first time" the trouble is there isn't much of a concourse at the back of the Kop I hope you will be able to take beer to your seat?

The season ticket system needs updating. Your right, the use of vouchers must cost the club a fortune.

The West stand should be pulled down and a complete new modern stand complex built there's enough area at the back to make it bigger than the East Bank without the poles.


i agree that the west needs knocking down but only if the new stand is as good as the kop, then find a new home for away fans. i wouldnt want hardly anything spent on home areas and the away fans getting a brand new stand and facilities

I dont know; it just said "Beer will be available on the Kop for the first time" the trouble is there isn't much of a concourse at the back of the Kop I hope you will be able to take beer to your seat?

The season ticket system needs updating. Your right, the use of vouchers must cost the club a fortune.

The West stand should be pulled down and a complete new modern stand complex built there's enough area at the back to make it bigger than the East Bank without the poles.

It'll never happen, you're not allowed to consume alcohol within view of the pitch.

You can get beer on our Kop, £3 for a pint of Carlsberg in a plastic pint pot (not for me).

i agree that the west needs knocking down but only if the new stand is as good as the kop, then find a new home for away fans. i wouldnt want hardly anything spent on home areas and the away fans getting a brand new stand and facilities

How about pull down the West Stand build a massive bigger than the East Bank state of the art stand and make this the new Kop.

Then build a new two tier stand where the Kop used to be.

Just an idea...I believe it has been suggested at a higher level.

How about pull down the West Stand build a massive bigger than the East Bank state of the art stand and make this the new Kop.

Then build a new two tier stand where the Kop used to be.

Just an idea...I believe it has been suggested at a higher level.

i'd be all for that if we are ever in a position to do it. obviosly something would need to be done with the kop as you couldnt keep it as it is for the away fans but a brand new kop would get my vote

How about pull down the West Stand build a massive bigger than the East Bank state of the art stand and make this the new Kop.

Then build a new two tier stand where the Kop used to be.

Just an idea...I believe it has been suggested at a higher level.

Why waste money on a bigger stand when you can't fill the ones you've already got? Surely any money Wednesday get their hands on should be put into the team not a new stand that will go half empty for most of the season and unused for most of the year???

Why waste money on a bigger stand when you can't fill the ones you've already got? Surely any money Wednesday get their hands on should be put into the team not a new stand that will go half empty for most of the season and unused for most of the year???

i dont think he was meaning anytime soon and forget about the team, just in the future when finances permit. i think you were one of the blades that went to the hillsborough derby but even just driving past it that stand looks horrible, so would be the stand that would need knocking down but the away fans shouldnt get a new stand and the current kop isnt ideal for away fans as it is. anyway, knocking down the west and kop we could reduce the capacity if need be but by the time its possible to do our attendances might be back to nearer 30k, so the current capacity wouldnt seem so bad

Why waste money on a bigger stand when you can't fill the ones you've already got? Surely any money Wednesday get their hands on should be put into the team not a new stand that will go half empty for most of the season and unused for most of the year???



I agree the team must come first.

My response was regarding Lee Strafford suggesting that the corner of the West Stand be brought back in to use. I did say that it would be a waste of money for the same reasons you stated. I thought that when they could afford to do so then redevelop the West Stand area.

I know its pure fantasy.

However, new stadiums are about making the most of a limited revenue opportunity not necessarily filling them.

New stadium design allows clubs to do this.

It could be argued that reducing the number of seating would create a demand and so would allow clubs to increase prices at certain games.

The other argument would be to reduce prices in order to make it more affordable for more people, thus increasing number through the gate and so having more people spending money in and around the ground increasing the revenue generated.

We don't know what the future holds regarding attendance predictions however gates have steadily increased on average since the mid eighties.

when i first read the part about the north west stand being done i was all for it but reading other responses and thinking about it more it would be a waste of time really, more important to use on the first team. not sure how much it would cost anyway to get it in a usable state aswell

Hillsborough is in need of a bit of an upgrade but the South Stand is a cracking stand, the North Stand is reasonable enough, the Kop is like pretty much any other Kop around the country, pretty limited in what it offers but offers affordable football cramped seating but behind the goal and the away stand is pretty ok if you're on the upper tier, the lower tier is pretty awful and the corner isn't up to much but there are grounds a lot worse off than Hillsborough.

Bramall Lane has grown significantly over the years and for me we've got one of the best grounds in the country, its well maintained and pretty modern. Hillsborough needs a bit of a make over but the floods didn't help and lack of money within the club means the upkeep of the stadium has suffered a little over the years but it needs a bit of TLC, talk of knocking stands down is crazy though, i think a refurb and a sproose up at best.

Hillsborough is in need of a bit of an upgrade but the South Stand is a cracking stand, the North Stand is reasonable enough, the Kop is like pretty much any other Kop around the country, pretty limited in what it offers but offers affordable football cramped seating but behind the goal and the away stand is pretty ok if you're on the upper tier, the lower tier is pretty awful and the corner isn't up to much but there are grounds a lot worse off than Hillsborough.

Bramall Lane has grown significantly over the years and for me we've got one of the best grounds in the country, its well maintained and pretty modern. Hillsborough needs a bit of a make over but the floods didn't help and lack of money within the club means the upkeep of the stadium has suffered a little over the years but it needs a bit of TLC, talk of knocking stands down is crazy though, i think a refurb and a sproose up at best.

to be honest mate ,any upgrade and money spent on the stadium should be directed on the stands where the home fans sit -away fans only visit once a season (unless there is a cup tie), so i wouldnt bother about making away fans comfy

How about pull down the West Stand build a massive bigger than the East Bank state of the art stand and make this the new Kop.

Then build a new two tier stand where the Kop used to be.

Just an idea...I believe it has been suggested at a higher level.

Ive heard it all now. Your 28mil in debt, decreasing attendances, with little hope of winning promotion. You should start your own business up. :loopy: :hihi:

Ive heard it all now. Your 28mil in debt, decreasing attendances, with little hope of winning promotion. You should start your own business up. :loopy: :hihi:

he said when its possible, not next week:loopy: 5 years time theres no saying wat our finances will be like and the attendances are increasing not decreasing:rolleyes:

He didnt say 5yrs you silly Wendy person. Can u read ?

i never said he did,i used it as an example.he said knocking it down etc was pure fantasy so by that it doesnt mean anytime soon. if your just on this thread to have an arguement your not getting it from me.we were just saying what needs doing to the ground, money permitting. take a look at stockers posts, have managed to have a decent discussion with him

I like the fact that Strafford is looking at improving things at Hillsborough in as many areas as possible, but with regards season tickets I'm still not convinced that he was adventurous enough, here was a great opportunity to pull support back in, and to do so mean't some serious discounts and price re-structuring.
The Under 8s and Over 80s should have been Under 13s and over 70s, the discount for existing season ticket holders should have been better and the target should have been 20,000 not 16,500 IMHO :thumbsup:

i dont think enough was done for season tickets. going to be hard to get to the 16k target and there should of been a better price for renewals but it was always going to be difficult for the club with the debt. glad things seeem to be happening around the club, strafford seems to be doing the right thing, hopefully that will help get some of the lost fans back

The Championship is going to be even more difficult next season with what's coming down!

The Championship is going to be even more difficult next season with what's coming down!

too right -there are no teams this season in the championship that come anywhere near the quality of teams like Newcastle and Middlesborough

The crowds at hillsborough recently have been what they have been all season- poor.

I think you can get 16500 a game to COME to the match- but getting that many season tickets is another matter entirely? I think that with the prices they have been pitched at in this recession you will be lucky to match last seasons total.

The crowds at hillsborough recently have been what they have been all season- poor.

I think you can get 16500 a game to COME to the match- but getting that many season tickets is another matter entirely? I think that with the prices they have been pitched at in this recession you will be lucky to match last seasons total.

If United can get 18k season tickets, there's no reason why Wednesday can't get at least 16.5k, we did a few seasons back. I know United's are cheaper, but Wednesdays really aren't that bad value.

Someone mentioned the use of a card system used at the Lane for season tickets.

Imo the clubs don't take advantage of this enough.

For instance: if fans can pay for, and their season tickets are in the form of a card then a card could be used to credit fans (not just season ticket holders) for multiples of other games they could pay for in advance with a discount.

Say fans that can't make all of the home games because of other commitments but would like to pay for a number of games of their choice in advance. An incentive would be a ramped discount depending on how many games are purchased in advance.

This would allow fans to make the commitment Strafford wants without the necessity of buying a full season ticket.

Another angle would be to enable the club to reward fans with free tickets on their card at various times throughout the season.

thats what i mean- everyone will take a free ticket- but getting them to pay 25-30 a game to watch a mid-table championship side- no chance.

too right -there are no teams this season in the championship that come anywhere near the quality of teams like Newcastle and Middlesborough

Remember though, those teams will have to offload a lot of players. Newcastle are going to be up **** creek if they come down. I wouldn't be suprised to see them plummet again and I really wouldn't care either :hihi:

If United can get 18k season tickets, there's no reason why Wednesday can't get at least 16.5k, we did a few seasons back. I know United's are cheaper, but Wednesdays really aren't that bad value.

Well we got 19k last year, and have already passed the 17k mark this year but we have really slashed prices for ST holders- our cheapest one is £229?? thats staggeringly cheap!

If your a football fan of no paticular allegance then SUFC will mop up all of them fans. But like people have said- SWFC can't afford to chop prices and still expect to be able to compete in the championship- its a vicious circle for the board.

thats what i mean- everyone will take a free ticket- but getting them to pay 25-30 a game to watch a mid-table championship side- no chance.

Yeah but selling out the Kop (£18 ) and North Stand (£23)would give us nearly 20k, thats not including South and Away end. The prices in brackets are averages so will be lower and higher for some games. I reckon we can get our big crowds back.

Yeah but selling out the Kop (£18 ) and North Stand (£23)would give us nearly 20k, thats not including South and Away end. The prices in brackets are averages so will be lower and higher for some games. I reckon we can get our big crowds back.

Oh im sure you will get your crowds back eventually and this season coming may be the start of that- i just wonder how much damage the allen era did to your fanbase, and future fanbase with the youngsters maybe opting to come to the lane like what happened to ours when the situations were reversed last decade.

Well we got 19k last year, and have already passed the 17k mark this year but we have really slashed prices for ST holders- our cheapest one is £229?? thats staggeringly cheap!

If your a football fan of no paticular allegance then SUFC will mop up all of them fans. But like people have said- SWFC can't afford to chop prices and still expect to be able to compete in the championship- its a vicious circle for the board.

I know United's are very cheap. Wednesday would probably sell a shed load at those prices but we just can't afford to. I think what Lee Strafford is tying to do is sensible. I know of a few people buying tickets who havent had one for a while.

Wednesday's fully fit squad is actually quite good and could compete in this league. It's the injuries and small squad which has hampered us. Hopefully with the increased budget we can bring a few more players in, to supplement the squad and to allow us to compete.

Oh im sure you will get your crowds back eventually and this season coming may be the start of that- i just wonder how much damage the allen era did to your fanbase, and future fanbase with the youngsters maybe opting to come to the lane like what happened to ours when the situations were reversed last decade.

I think the Allen era has caused damage that will take along time to heal.

At one point I thought he was on a self distruct mission in driving the fans away.

There's still some way to go in building some of the bridges.

Oh im sure you will get your crowds back eventually and this season coming may be the start of that- i just wonder how much damage the allen era did to your fanbase, and future fanbase with the youngsters maybe opting to come to the lane like what happened to ours when the situations were reversed last decade.

I think the kids choosing united or Wednesday based on who's better is fairly minimal. I think most follow who their father supports. Having said that on my mums side I have an Uncle who supports Wednesday and one who supports United.
My dads side of the family are Wednesday, but my Dad supports both, but is a season ticket holder at Hillsborough and slightly favours the Owls.
:hihi: maybe you're right, Football is odd in Sheffield

too right -there are no teams this season in the championship that come anywhere near the quality of teams like Newcastle and Middlesborough

Could be Newcastle and Sunderland yet!!

I think the Allen era has caused damage that will take along time to heal.

At one point I thought he was on a self distruct mission in driving the fans away.

There's still some way to go in building some of the bridges.


Yes- at least wednesdayite are on-board now- although unless strafford continues to appease them they could turn on him like they did allen?

Well i would have thought that the bank would have help set the ticket prices too as they are owed the largest amount of money and as part of the debt restructuring programme they probably will have someone working at hillsborough full time to ensure that its still a viable business and worth the risk that there taking my extending the overdraft.

Well i would have thought that the bank would have help set the ticket prices too as they are owed the largest amount of money and as part of the debt restructuring programme they probably will have someone working at hillsborough full time to ensure that its still a viable business and worth the risk that there taking my extending the overdraft.

the problem is the restructuring plan has hit the buffers because of a certain former chairman who has a vendetta against certain fan groups ,refusing to accept the restructuring plan.

too right -there are no teams this season in the championship that come anywhere near the quality of teams like Newcastle and Middlesborough

How true, most of the Championship teams are far better than either of those embarrassing outfits! I could see at least one of those going straight through to League 1, especially Newcastle with their high wage bill... Hull and Sunderland do seem to be trying to get relegated themselves though...

The real danger team coming down will be West Brom, they always bounce back and dominate around the top of the Championship...