1 July 2005

Changes to the way all bus services in South Yorkshire are operated could be on the cards, if politicians approve a range of options being put forward by the Transport Executive next week.

The Transport Executive's new Bus Strategy will be considered by the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority at its meeting on 7 July, and if approved could see a reverse in the fortunes of bus travel which have suffered a steady decline in passengers since deregulation of services in 1986.

Taking control of the way bus services are run, through special Government-endorsed powers, is just one of three options being looked at by transport bosses next week, as they discuss the future of bus travel in South Yorkshire.

The Bus Strategy covers the period 2006-2011 and as David Brown, Passenger Services Director at the Transport Executive says, "It is quite simply, about making the bus a better choice".

The Bus Strategy has been developed after extensive consultation with the travelling public and specialists within the bus industry, including all the county's bus operators.

Mr Brown added, "We've come up with these proposals in response to what passengers are telling us. Punctuality and reliability hasn't improved across the network as much as we would have liked. The current model hasn't delivered the level of improvements that passengers expect, and this document sets out a range of ways we can turn things around, and where necessary take more control over levels of service quality, fares and timetables.

"If South Yorkshire is to maintain its pace of economic growth, a good public transport system is essential to not only keep us moving, but link people with the places they want to get to."

He added, "While the bus is still, by far, the most commonly used mode of public transport in the county, it is a fact that fewer people are using the bus and there are numerous reasons for this. Car ownership has increased and the cost of motoring has remained fairly constant while for many the whole experience of using buses has put people off."

The Bus Strategy highlights trends in patronage, but also looks at what passengers actually want from a bus service, and how it can be achieved. The Bus Strategy contains a number of options available to encourage growth in bus usage, Mr Brown added.

"We've tried the voluntary approach and this has been successful in some areas, but if we are to make fundamental changes to the quality of bus services there are some difficult decisions to be taken in taking forward the delivery of this Strategy.

"We have carried out extensive consultation with our partners to help shape this strategy, and the response has been generally supportive. We look forward to discussing the issues further at the PTA meeting next week."


Which way would you vote?


option 1 = Keep as present
option 2 = Pte takes control of routes/service levels and puts out each route or a group of routes to tender or on a fixed term franchise agreement
option 3 = Go back to a fully owned operation by the PTE


The poll is only open for 30 days

Ah good another bus thread!

Ok here we go.

(1) get rid of First South Yorkshire Buses (Bye Bye) all they are intested in is Money, I suggest they go and visit Brighton Transport where the buses are still council owned the drivers are on £12 per hour + an overtime & weekend rate ( Not in FSYB) and see how a proper bus company is run.

(2) If the bus services are put out to tender then the following MUST happen.

: A brand new bus garage to be built as there is no more room at Olive Grove for any more buses (No room to expand services)

: A Public & Drivers review of services, e.g ask them where they want the buses to go to, start with a blank map of Sheffield and ask them to draw in the bus routes that they want,
e,g parts of the city you have to go into town to get to other parts of the city.

:Like the London Underground, have a digital display at main bus stops so you know where your bus is and can plan your journey if your bus is stuck in traffic.

:Have buses that are run by the company in Sheffield to run to Barnsley, First South Yorkshire say that you can buy an allday ticket and go on there services anywhere in South Yorkshire, Barnsley is in South Yorkshire but they dont run there!

: Bring back the 10pm limit on when under 16's can travel,
This was withdrawn about 3-4 years ago and now you have hoodies traveling on buses late a night causing damage.

: Bring back the 500 City Clipper service, Manchester has got this so why don't we bring it back is was allways popular.

: Put the word FARE STAGE on the relevent bus stops, this idea was scraped years ago but would make life easyer for both Drivers & Passengers, e,g if you travel from the High Street to London Road there was 2 fare stages, (1) City Centre (2) Boston Street so this would cost you 80p or is it 90p now?

: Work with the City Council in re-opening roads, The High Street is a laugh at most times, reopen Fargate to buses only and put some bus stops there, this would stop the congetstion outside TJ HUGHES where buses can be stuck for up to 10 mins trying to get to there bus stops.

: A complet review of all Bus Stops, I like it how SYPTE can find a 2ft bit of grass, stick a bus stop there and then expect the Drivers to get a 39ft Bus to stop there.

Double Yellow Lines at Each Bus Stop, Can't get a 39ft bus there if it is blocked by parked cars.

: School Children to only travel on School buses, ( Animal ) Abbeydale Grange please take note.

: New City Mini Bus Interchanges, lets get them built and the 500 City Clipper to serve them.

: CLIPPY'S! between 7am & 7pm on the major route bring them back, the passenger then would see journey time reduced.

My own preference would be for much greater competition in Sheffield. Most routes now are uncompetative with First having a very large market share. If there were proper competition fares would fall and frequencies would increase.

Sorry about another bus thread. In response to a few Pm's on the subject .. What would I do... Vote etc.
I would go for option 2 If I had a blank sheet of paper .
1) Bring back Limited Stop services to the outer suburb's where no rail or tram provision
2) Have Local area feeder services linking into rail/tram/ mini TI in main suburbs with express/limited stop service
3) Provide at least a 20 minute level of service on key routes with a fully co ordinated service to enchance busy sections between 0700 to 1900.. for example service A = 00 20 40 past hour Service B = 10 30 50 past hour
4) If evening and sunday services are really buses carrying around fresh air , I would relook at using the Nightline Network we use to have
5) limit any timetable changes to just 2 (Summer/winter)
6) Tender/Franchise for say a 5 year period with fines/penalty for poor performance
7) Have a customer charter on premium services
8) No bus to leave a timetabled point before an advertised time
9) look at Cash fares ,,, 50p per Zone? / fare Stage
10) Have district and County weekly tickets

That my vision.... I only hope the meeting does not make the wrong one. We have had a fully deregulated system for over 10 years now and clearly it has not worked in our major urban areas.

with the further cuts coming in August from First gives more urgency for the PTE to gain some more powers to regulate and improve things.
Please VOTE.

I voted for the PTE to own the buses. It is obvious that the current system isn't working, and I think the best way to make the bus a realistic and affordable alternative to the car is for the PTE to takeover complete control.

I think they should also introduce a cheap family ticket, as even if they reduce single fares it will still be far more expensive for 2 parents with 2 children to go even a short distance by bus than to go by car.

We need a truely centralised system whereby 'day tickets' on the tram/bus are valid on all routes in S.Y but not as expensive as the 'Day Tripper'.

I think that the current owners should try riding on a couple of their routes before any consultation is taken. This would enable them to see why people are moving away from public transport in favour of other methods of transport.

In the past two weeks I have encountered on one bus route alone the following :-

1) litter worthy of a municipal rubbish dump all over seats and the floor. (how on earth the driver failed to notice the mess was beyond belief) since fares have risen the standard seems to have gotten worse!!!!!

2) Drivers travelling far too fast and failing to observe changing traffic lights / posted hazard warnings. As professional drivers they should set an example.

3) Late, delayed or cancelled services, these all delay us with our daily routine.

4) Badly behaved passengers (mainly youths) with feet on seats, swearing and being abusive to other passengers.

I believe it is the current managements responsibilty to look into their operation of all South yorkshire routes before trying to blame the demise of the Bus on to the majority of fare paying passengers

First should take a look at Nottingham's NCT Bus service. £1.30 max single fare (at least when I moved back to Sheff last September) and £2.30 day saver. £36 a month electronic travelpass card that's valid on buses *and* trams.

Incredibly frequent buses and they were always full.

Bendy buses! And on that point I rest my case!

Does anyone know the result of the Sheffield Council meeting reference the way buses are run in Sheffield which took place on 7th July.?

Interesting question. Option 2 is what they've got in London, with different companies running different routes but all under the TFL banner (I think - correct me if I'm wrong). That seems to work well, but depends on the council taking an active interest.

But Sheffield might not be big enough for that system to work, so maybe option 3 would be better. Used to work here (if I'm not looking through nostalgic spectacles), and works in other places.

If more than lip service is to be paid to encouraging public transport, there needs to be an integrated and more closely regulated, and preferably cheaper, system.

why have bus fares gone up again,
i thought that the govenment was trying to encourage people to use public transport.
i don't use the bus that often but when i do, it is a nightmare.
the number 53 is supposed to run every 10 mins,
i have yet to catch it without waiting 15-20 mins,
and once it does turn up it is the most uncomfortable journey imaginable, it stinks.
i feel sorry for people who have prams they wait for ages for a bus, then when one turns up there is no room for the pram so they have to wait for the next one.
i might just buy a car and travel to work in that, much easier.

Do it, but for dogs sake. . people. . stop whining about public transport. .

Let me break it down.

Don't like buses - buy a motorbike.
Don't like getting wet - buy a car.
Don't like cars - Buy a push bike.
Too lazy to ride a push bike and too tight to buy a motor viehcle, catch the bus, accept your choice and stop whinging about it.

Nuf said!

hang on minute, i might be wrong but i thought that the whole point of a forum was to have your say.
i titled the post clearly so anyone who doesn't want to read it does'nt have to.
if it annoys you so much why did you look at the post and why did you reply to it.
sounds like your a bit of a muppet
next time, just pass over the topics you are not interested in

Don't try and turn this personal as my reply was not a personal attack.

I guess your not aware of the ammount of whines and whinges that go on here about public transport and the majority are from those that just wanna cry about it and not do anything productive about it.

Also the fact that neary 50 people viewed this post and not one replied probably means I ain't on my own with this opinion.

Complaints with a method of progression are useful, but whinging for the sake of whinging is just attention seeking, time wasting and has useful function at all.

MOD: threads merged - debate away :)

Just a reminder this poll closes on August 1st.
Time running out if you wish to VOTE!

Originally posted by munky
Do it, but for dogs sake. . people. . stop whining about public transport. .

Let me break it down.

Don't like buses - buy a motorbike.
Don't like getting wet - buy a car.
Don't like cars - Buy a push bike.
Too lazy to ride a push bike and too tight to buy a motor viehcle, catch the bus, accept your choice and stop whinging about it.

Nuf said!


What about people for whom none of these options are available but still want a reliable and affordable public transport system?
Not only that, but by default, the more attractive the public transport option is to users, the more people will use it and the less congested the roads will be.

Bring Public Transport back under Public Control. Bus Deregulation is a Thatcher experiment that went wrong.

If they aren't going to bring public transport back under public ownership then how about a system of fines for consistently late/missing buses similair to that on the railways.

I think First would think twice about simply not running a bus if they were going to be hit with a £10k fine as a consequence. On current performance they'd be ending up fined over £100,000 a week on the 76 route alone.

That'd put an end to their greedy management collecting public subsidies to run less well used routes but simply only running half of the timetable services (surely that is fraud?)

Originally posted by xltim
why have bus fares gone up again,

- Because buses locally are operated by greedy companies that put profit before all other considerations.

i thought that the govenment was trying to encourage people to use public transport.

- Really? Whatever gave you that opinion? Successive governments over the last twenty years clearly don't give a damn.

i don't use the bus that often but when i do, it is a nightmare.
the number 53 is supposed to run every 10 mins,
i have yet to catch it without waiting 15-20 mins,
and once it does turn up it is the most uncomfortable journey imaginable, it stinks.

- The 53 route is weird and unpredictable, sometimes there is only 5 mins between buses, other times I have had to wait over an hour.

It would be nice if we had a government/council that actually gave a damn about bus services. My own guess is that as most councillors/MPs etc live in fairly good areas their experience of using public transport isn't too bad.

I notice that areas popular with Uni students are well served by buses regardless of which city you're in, and routes serving middle-class suburbia seem to run regularly. (evidence - having 9 97/97a buses go past me in the city centre while I am waiting for a 76).

Unless the hit and miss approach of bus operators was directly affecting these people they are never going to be interested in doing anything about it.

i feel sorry for people who have prams they wait for ages for a bus, then when one turns up there is no room for the pram so they have to wait for the next one.

- They could collapse their pram and sit on a normal seat. It's disabled people I am more sorry for. Having children is a lifestyle choice. Being in a wheelchair usually isn't.

i might just buy a car and travel to work in that, much easier.

- Until your car gets nicked by a couple of chavs and the insurance take a year over paying out. (Happened when one on my motorbikes got nicked). Even then they give you far less than your vehicle is insured for. (My bike was insured for £600 but their loss adjusters valued it at £350, then told me my excess was £250, not the £50 mentioned in my policy - small print allowed them to vary the amount of excess without notice).

Originally posted by richardbiker


I think First would think twice about simply not running a bus if they were going to be hit with a £10k fine as a consequence. On current performance they'd be ending up fined over £100,000 a week on the 76 route alone.

That'd put an end to their greedy management collecting public subsidies to run less well used routes but simply only running half of the timetable services (surely that is fraud?)

Dont foget the route 75 as well which has about as much chance of running on time as Sheffield has of having the best roads in england! I rest my case.

Poll closes at Midnight July 31st. Last Chance to VOTE