Since SF seems to flooded with people getting on their high horse about legal and illegal immigrants, I though it was about time I asked British people abroad how they are treated. Do you feel welcome in the country you live in?

I've have only come across two people in the 18 months that I've been living in The U.S that disliked me because I'm a foreigner. I feel comfortable and at ease with people in this country:clap:

Don't forget to remind them that they are foreigners too tulip - unless of course they are 'Native Americans';)

I have yet to come across anyone in the 14yrs I've been here that made me uncomfortable because I'm English. I doubt very much that would be the case if we lived in England.

Originally posted by saxon51
Don't forget to remind them that they are foreigners too tulip - unless of course they are 'Native Americans';) My husband is an American citizen so I let him point that out for me. Recently someone, without thinking said "there are too many foreigner in this country" my husband pointed out to the guy who's surname was o'conner that he didn't sound like a native American from his name:D

Originally posted by Ally68
I have yet to come across anyone in the 14yrs I've been here that made me uncomfortable because I'm English. I doubt very much that would be the case if we lived in England. Judging from the posts I have been reading on SF, I'd have to say you are absolutely right!

Originally posted by tulip
Judging from the posts I have been reading on SF, I'd have to say you are absolutely right!

Absolutely! frightening isn't it?

It's getting to the point were people are going to start hating others just because they are not British - I blame the tabloid press over there!

Originally posted by tulip
Since SF seems to flooded with people getting on their high horse about legal and illegal immigrants, I though it was about time I asked British people abroad how they are treated. Do you feel welcome in the country you live in?

I've have only come across two people in the 18 months that I've been living in The U.S that disliked me because I'm a foreigner. I feel comfortable and at ease with people in this country:clap:

we have lived here in spain for a few years now and i must say i don´t remember anyone making us feel unwelcome although i have to admit it is europe so that may make a difference
the one time i do recall a couple of years ago a friend was called an English pig" but that was by a policeman who he had a run in with and i don´t know the circumstances the one main thing i have found is that you get far more help if you at least try to speak the language even if it is only a few words problem is there is more than 1 spanish and it is sometimes difficult to define the difference but in general we think it is ok

Originally posted by GJ2004
we have lived here in spain for a few years now and i must say i don´t remember anyone making us feel unwelcome although i have to admit it is europe so that may make a difference
the one time i do recall a couple of years ago a friend was called an English pig" but that was by a policeman who he had a run in with and i don´t know the circumstances the one main thing i have found is that you get far more help if you at least try to speak the language even if it is only a few words problem is there is more than 1 spanish and it is sometimes difficult to define the difference but in general we think it is ok We were going to move to spain but it had gotten too expensive by the time we were ready to move. I really like were we live, it's a small community and most people are warm and friendly - good thing since I don't seem to be able to post anything on here without someone having a go at me:D

I've worked in a few foreign countries and , generally speaking , people in those countries are friendly.
However , when British people go to work or live in a foreign country , it is usually either on a contract or they have to go through the procedures , if they are going to be citizens of that country. The locals know this and know that their country has often asked the person to come and work there.[as in the case of teachers or engineers].
However , I don't know what their attitude would be if you were there illegally or if you committed an offence whilst you were there. Also , I'm not sure how much help you'd get if you arrived there illegally and applied for financial help from the State.
Also , the vast majority of people living or working in foreign countries , in my experience , are pretty meticulous about respecting the country they're in and obeying the law and customs.
I was living in a small town in Saudi and during evening prayers , I was sitting outside at a cafe table , having a smoke. A Religous Police Officer came up and told me in a very aggressive way to not smoke , during prayer time. I put it out , as I'd heard one or two things about Saudi prisons. Later , some Saudi friends told me I could have ignored him but when you're alone .........It shows that you have to be careful and when Brits do break the law or behave badly abroad , they get treated just as roughly ------or worse-------than foreigners who break our laws. I think the same goes for the friendliness on a personal level too.

Originally posted by Fareast
I've worked in a few foreign countries and , generally speaking , people in those countries are friendly.
However , when British people go to work or live in a foreign country , it is usually either on a contract or they have to go through the procedures , if they are going to be citizens of that country. The locals know this and know that their country has often asked the person to come and work there.[as in the case of teachers or engineers].
However , I don't know what their attitude would be if you were there illegally or if you committed an offence whilst you were there. Also , I'm not sure how much help you'd get if you arrived there illegally and applied for financial help from the State.
Also , the vast majority of people living or working in foreign countries , in my experience , are pretty meticulous about respecting the country they're in and obeying the law and customs.
I

When I came to Germany I did it through the legal channels, I registered. I was told after 3 months that I either had to get work, get married or leave. This rule applies throughout Europe. Although I was in a steady relationship I decided to get a job ;)

I think I missed the point a bit on my last posting and the original poster was asking the question on a more day-to-day level. However............here goes , for what it's worth.
At the moment I'm working in a , "small" city in China , with very few Westerners. Some of the locals , particularly those who have popped into town from a village have literally never seen a Westerner before . The result is you get stared at endlessly , which can be embarrassing or flattering , depending on the circumstances. You are certainly an object of curiosity ; now , whether the locals actually like you or not ,is maybe a different matter. Once the language barrier comes down , I've found most Chinese are friendly and helpful.
At the other end of the scale , as it were , I worked for a over 2 years in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have had [and have] so many ex-pats in their country that I don't think they notice them any more. I always found them polite , serious and , outside the capital , much more like us than I'd ever imagined. They are certainly not all rolling in money ! In fact , one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life was [is] a Saudi.He was a real family man , living in a remote village in the mountains , near Abha.His parents and children suffered from diabetes and he had to help them every day ; yet he still found time to do English lessons and help me [and others] , in every possible way.
I've worked in other countries too but not much time left at the moment.

I've never had a problem here in the US, and always been treated with great friendship, albeit sometimes with a good natured dig at us brits. My wife is from County Clare in Ireland and is very popular hereabouts. We sometimes have people complaining about immigrants to us as if we had never been immigrants ourselves. As for the natives, it is believed that they came across from what is now Siberia when the Bering Strait was a land bridge, so they're probably immigrants too, just like many Brits came from Germany, Denmark, Rome, Normandy etc. etc.

Originally posted by buck
I've never had a problem here in the US, and always been treated with great friendship, albeit sometimes with a good natured dig at us brits. My wife is from County Clare in Ireland and is very popular hereabouts. We sometimes have people complaining about immigrants to us as if we had never been immigrants ourselves. As for the natives, it is believed that they came across from what is now Siberia when the Bering Strait was a land bridge, so they're probably immigrants too, just like many Brits came from Germany, Denmark, Rome, Normandy etc. etc. Thats very true, not many people can call themselves true natives!

Originally posted by Fareast
I think I missed the point a bit on my last posting and the original poster was asking the question on a more day-to-day level. However............here goes , for what it's worth.
At the moment I'm working in a , "small" city in China , with very few Westerners. Some of the locals , particularly those who have popped into town from a village have literally never seen a Westerner before . The result is you get stared at endlessly , which can be embarrassing or flattering , depending on the circumstances. You are certainly an object of curiosity ; now , whether the locals actually like you or not ,is maybe a different matter. Once the language barrier comes down , I've found most Chinese are friendly and helpful.
At the other end of the scale , as it were , I worked for a over 2 years in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have had [and have] so many ex-pats in their country that I don't think they notice them any more. I always found them polite , serious and , outside the capital , much more like us than I'd ever imagined. They are certainly not all rolling in money ! In fact , one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life was [is] a Saudi.He was a real family man , living in a remote village in the mountains , near Abha.His parents and children suffered from diabetes and he had to help them every day ; yet he still found time to do English lessons and help me [and others] , in every possible way.
I've worked in other countries too but not much time left at the moment. Yes, I did mean in a general day to day living sort of way. I totally agree with respecting the customs and laws of the country you have been granted residency in. You wouldn't go into some elses house and walk mud all over and stub cigarette butts out on their carpet! In the same way you shouldn't live in another country and stick two fingers up to their laws :)

Originally posted by tulip
Since SF seems to flooded with people getting on their high horse about legal and illegal immigrants, I though it was about time I asked British people abroad how they are treated. Do you feel welcome in the country you live in?

I've have only come across two people in the 18 months that I've been living in The U.S that disliked me because I'm a foreigner. I feel comfortable and at ease with people in this country:clap:

I lived in Holland for 18 years in the past it was no problem being a foriegner.The last 3 years have seen a u -turn hereI dont recognise it any more .Due to political and economic problems the natural Dutch conservatism is raising its head and feel a that being a foriegner even english is not such a great hting here anymore

!8 years is a long time to live in a country, call it 'home' and suddenly be made to feel unwelcome. All countries have governments that people dislike but from what I read on here I don't think I would consider going back to England, everyone I talk to seems dissatisfied there at the moment!:)

I've just had my first experience of hostility after 8 years of living in Germany. It was at a hairdressers I was visiting for the first time and there was a really hostile atmosphere, whispering in corners about "foreigners" etc, and then another customer very deliberately and obviously taken ahead of me out of turn. My complaints - polite at first - were just treated with derision so in the end I said something like "foreigners obviously come last in this shop" at which they just grinned and agreed so I stomped out in high dudgeon. As I say, I'd never experienced anything like that before and it was a really nasty, uncomfortable feeling. I feel so sorry for people who have to put up with that sort of thing all the time.

The postscript is that leaving the salon early meant I had to start a long walk home down a busy main road. A neighbour driving by happened to spot me, stopped specially, crossed through all the traffic to fetch me because I hadn't seen her, and then went out of her way to give me a lift home. Now that is far more typical of the treatment I've had in all the years I've lived here.

Hi,
I think you can be made to feel a "foreigner" in many an English hairdressers if you don't fit in through no fault of your own.
I find women in hairdressers very territorial.
So may have been just because you were an intruder they snubbed you and being English was extra.
Just a thought
hazel

That's a good point and might explain it. Thank goodness I didn't stay around to let them have a go at my hair - who knows what I might look like now!!

Originally posted by sauerkraut
That's a good point and might explain it. Thank goodness I didn't stay around to let them have a go at my hair - who knows what I might look like now!! I have a phobia about haidressers shops as it is! I met a lady at a party on Saturday. She was all smiles when she was introduced to me. She told me she was a hairdresser working from home. I said "oh good, you can cut my hair!" she spent a lot of her time at the party giving me dirty looks and whispering to people and looking at me. I won't be going to her house to have my hair cut thank you!;)

Lived in Scotland for over 20 years now.
Does that count?

May be part of the British Isles but there is a definite separatist movement uphere.
Admittedly this stops short of independance but I would say the majority of the Scots do consider that they are living in a different country.

Made to feel unwelcome?

Difficult one to answer.

Not altogether jokingly, English living up here are referred to as "FEBS".
The last 2 words are "English B******s" Make your own mind up about the first!!

The Scottish Parliament have an active ongoing campaign to remind Scottish people that they live in a multi racial and multi cultural society.
So they do acknowledge that there is a problem.
Sometimes the mark can be well and truely over stepped.

In the town where I live there is a well known landlord who makes it quite plain that the Engish are not welcome in his pub.
This peaked when he put up a sign literally saying "English Not Served"
Result? The first day this appeared, 2 local councellors (both English) accompanied by a Police Officer and a member of the Race Relations Board went into his pub and ordered a couple of pints.
He was informed that should he not serve them then his licence would be reviewed.

He served; they left and he's towed the line ever since.

Yes I've been called an English b*****d, yes I've been told to p**s off back to England. Does it hurt?
If you let it then, yes it does.

For me it just makes it impossible to consider where I've lived and worked alll this time as home.
It isn't and never will be.

I have been in Kent for 10 months and there is a definite North/South attitude. If you don't speak in their tongue you are an incomer. My wife and I make a special effort to lay on a Sheffield accent when out shopping. The looks on the faces are a picture, even better when they try to mimic us.

I live just up the road Jossman. Kevin.

wow, Kentish posters.

Use to do some drinking round Ightham/Otford/Sevenoaks.

I have been made to feel very welcome in my country of residence. The fact that no-one knows I am a 'foreigner' unless I tell them so may have something to do with it.

I have found some people that reacted badly when I told them I was Swedish, but most express amazement or disbelief because I am not blonde, and I don't talk like SG Eriksson.

One guy pulled his car up on the hard shoulder (I was hitching) of the M3 and just told me, in a quiet voice and without looking at me, to get out of the car. Just after I said I was Swedish. Weird.

Never been made to feel unwelcome in my 3 years living in the 'States. Aside from the light-hearted digs and so on. Actually - a friend of mine said "Happy July 4th - how does it feel to know we kicked your red-coat asses?". It's funny 'cos his parents are from Iran.

Nationalism is a funny thing. I wonder how I'd be treated by the landlord in Scotland? I was born in Sheffield and consider myself English but my family can be traced back to Scotland and is tied to Clan Mar...would I be unwelcome in his pub?

Yes everywhere except England is great. Everyone makes you feel welcome what ever race you are. I cant believe how fabulous these other places are. I'm staying put in this Great country as we are one of the most tolerant nations contrary to what other posts have said, and yes I have visited many countries including USA and all have good and bad points but none is anywhere near as good as this country when all aspects of life are considered.

Originally posted by mrplodge
Yes everywhere except England is great. Everyone makes you feel welcome what ever race you are. I cant believe how fabulous these other places are. I'm staying put in this Great country as we are one of the most tolerant nations contrary to what other posts have said, and yes I have visited many countries including USA and all have good and bad points but none is anywhere near as good as this country when all aspects of life are considered. Oh, I really think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here - slow down! I put this thread here not to condemn Britain in any way. You are right Britain is a multicultural society that on the whole respects other cultures and races. Racism exists in most countries to a higher degree than England. I am a long way from home and wanted to find out other peoples experiences of living abroad. I for one Didn't leave England because I hated it. I left because my circumstances changed. I never thought I would leave England - I loved living there:)

Originally posted by tulip
Oh, I really think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here - slow down! I put this thread here not to condemn Britain in any way. You are right Britain is a multicultural society that on the whole respects other cultures and races. Racism exists in most countries to a higher degree than England. I am a long way from home and wanted to find out other peoples experiences of living abroad. I for one Didn't leave England because I hated it. I left because my circumstances changed. I never thought I would leave England - I loved living there:)

Fine but that was how it comes across. Thanks PJ

Originally posted by mrplodge
Fine but that was how it comes across. Thanks PJ I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to sound that way. It was meant to be a diversion from all the arguments going on about immigrants in England. I think England is an extremely tolerant country when it comes to helping foreigners in distress. It doesn't happen that way in this country!:)

iv got nothing against any man any colour any creed but it says something when i lose another job because of cheep foreign labour

iv got nothing against any man any colour any creed but it says something when i lose another job because of cheep foreign labour
I havent lost a job due to cheap foriegn labour........swings n roundabouts innit?

Lived in various parts of Canada for over 40 years and never felt unwelcome. The transition to Canadian life all those years ago was made easier because I moved to Vancouver, which at that time was a city teeming with immigrants of all nationalities, so I blended right in. After that, Newfoundland, which took some getting used to. Now, Prince Edward Island which is a delightful spot. But, always felt welcome.

I've never lived abroad, but I work abroad and spend about half the year overseas. I actually like being a foreigner as I can be more myself than at home, where people try to slot you into their expectations and stereotypes.

There's a great sense of freedom when you're a foreigner.

There's very few places I've been where I have felt any sense of hostility because of being a foreigner. I had a couple of stroppy Libyans give me a hard time when the Lockerbie case was in the news and the UK was trying to extradite the suspects, but apart from that it's always been welcoming smiles.

Don't forget to remind them that they are foreigners too tulip - unless of course they are 'Native Americans';)I don't recommend you do that at all. I've lived here over 42 years, and have never felt unwelcome. Even the 'native Americans' walked across what is now the Bering Strait into Alaska from Siberia when it was still a land bridge. Where did your ancestors come from? Saxony ? Foreigner!

One guy pulled his car up on the hard shoulder (I was hitching) of the M3 and just told me, in a quiet voice and without looking at me, to get out of the car. Just after I said I was Swedish. Weird.

Maybe he'd had a bad experience at IKEA?

I have lived here in the States 13 years and have had very few problems. Funnily the only snubs I ever recieve are usually from other British people. I live near Proctor and Gamble world HQ and have met some very 'full of themselves', usually with that plummy private school accents execs in the local bars while they are here on business and when they hear my Sheffield accent they can be very condecending.

The Canadian work force was very clanish when i arrived in 65 if you was not one of them it was impossible to work, by them i mean people of all races they seemed very scared and protected their jobs,but the only down right racist attitude came from a young scottish girl who had just watched a doc' on Bonnie Prince Charlie and all the Northumberland men tossing the Scottish babys in the air to catch on their swords, Icouldnt convince her I'd not stab a baby in a long time

I have lived here in the States 13 years and have had very few problems. Funnily the only snubs I ever recieve are usually from other British people. I live near Proctor and Gamble world HQ and have met some very 'full of themselves', usually with that plummy private school accents execs in the local bars while they are here on business and when they hear my Sheffield accent they can be very condecending.

Thats so true isn't it ?, the only snubs I've had has been from Brits living in the US, The ones that have moved to fairfield county Connecticut anyhow, they seems to be quite wealthy and don't want to be bothered chatting with other Brits especially if you're from the North :roll:, some Brits can really put on a posh accent too for the Americans, little do they know the Americans could care less, they like Brits no matter where there from.

Thats so true isn't it ?, the only snubs I've had has been from Brits living in the US, The ones that have moved to fairfield county Connecticut anyhow, they seems to be quite wealthy and don't want to be bothered chatting with other Brits especially if you're from the North :roll:, some Brits can really put on a posh accent too for the Americans, little do they know the Americans could care less, they like Brits no matter where there from.American women love my Yorkie accent. Most think I'm Scottish, some think I'm Irish. My neighbor says I sound like Richard Burton. Some people on the Connecicut shore are terrible snobs, in a country where snobbery is a joke. :)

American women love my Yorkie accent. Most think I'm Scottish, some think I'm Irish. My neighbor says I sound like Richard Burton. Some people on the Connecicut shore are terrible snobs, in a country where snobbery is a joke. :)

Your right Buck, the Brits I've come accross in Connecticut think who the hell they are, especially when there kids are able to go to the best schools in this area, i'd hate to see how they act when they have visiters over from England for a stay, must be torcher listening to them brag, putting on the airs, thats just how they are, really! Only a Sheffielder would spot it :hihi:

When we first came to live in Totley 35 years ago I was standing at the bar of one of the local pubs. This guy came to stand at the side of me to order a refill, he plainly said "expletive incomers". I said "No, I'm on a mission to sleep with your wives and breed some sense into your inbred village".

I don't think that he quite understood me, anyway he lives in Dronfield now. :hihi:

So if you can be made to feel like an outcast in the city of your birth, you can be made to feel an outcast anywhere.

It's a funny as Yorkshire accents are only looked down upon from Brits themselves, Britains snobbery seems to be mostly among the middle class and not the Rich :huh:

Lived in various parts of Canada for over 40 years and never felt unwelcome. The transition to Canadian life all those years ago was made easier because I moved to Vancouver, which at that time was a city teeming with immigrants of all nationalities, so I blended right in. After that, Newfoundland, which took some getting used to. Now, Prince Edward Island which is a delightful spot. But, always felt welcome.I was sent to Newfie from Montreal for a year by my company. Blooming expensive, couldn't get back quick anough for a walk down St. Catherine's Street. PEI is fabulous, the bridge worked out well.:)

Yes everywhere except England is great. Everyone makes you feel welcome what ever race you are. I cant believe how fabulous these other places are. I'm staying put in this Great country as we are one of the most tolerant nations contrary to what other posts have said, and yes I have visited many countries including USA and all have good and bad points but none is anywhere near as good as this country when all aspects of life are considered.
Sheffield England is the best place in the World proof is all the ex pats who post on SF. and don,t want to miss a thing as to what is going on here.
I bet half of em would come back if they could ,i have a mate who lives in Benidorm who is stuck there because his house is worth half of what he paid for it and he still can,t sell it,

I havent lost a job due to cheap foriegn labour........swings n roundabouts innit?
Ask the building workers in this town mate!

Lived in various parts of Canada for over 40 years and never felt unwelcome. The transition to Canadian life all those years ago was made easier because I moved to Vancouver, which at that time was a city teeming with immigrants of all nationalities, so I blended right in. After that, Newfoundland, which took some getting used to. Now, Prince Edward Island which is a delightful spot. But, always felt welcome.
What about the French sect re have heard disturbing things from Canadians i have met in the past!

The Canadian work force was very clanish when i arrived in 65 if you was not one of them it was impossible to work, by them i mean people of all races they seemed very scared and protected their jobs,but the only down right racist attitude came from a young scottish girl who had just watched a doc' on Bonnie Prince Charlie and all the Northumberland men tossing the Scottish babys in the air to catch on their swords, Icouldnt convince her I'd not stab a baby in a long time
And then along came Mel Gibson.

And then along came Mel Gibson.
yes he came to a sticky end ,damm those english their word is not to be trusted:hihi::hihi:

What about the French sect re have heard disturbing things from Canadians i have met in the past!

they'er French nothing more needs to be said:):)

Thats so true isn't it ?, the only snubs I've had has been from Brits living in the US, The ones that have moved to fairfield county Connecticut anyhow, they seems to be quite wealthy and don't want to be bothered chatting with other Brits especially if you're from the North :roll:, some Brits can really put on a posh accent too for the Americans, little do they know the Americans could care less, they like Brits no matter where there from.

I am going to be very racist/southernist now. I have noticed here in the States that southerner suddenly acquire a Prince Charles Brogue and when they realize their is another British person in the room they get **** off as they want to be the only one.

Personally, I am very flattered that I still have my accent and when I meet another Brit I would like to just stand at the bar (not sit) and laugh about the differences but a lot people get seem to be resentful

Anyone else noticed this?

I was sent to Newfie from Montreal for a year by my company. Blooming expensive, couldn't get back quick anough for a walk down St. Catherine's Street. PEI is fabulous, the bridge worked out well.:)

Reason it's expensive on the Rock (Nfld) now Buck is because of all the offshore oil they're mining. It's one of only two or three provinces in Canada now that has an annual budgetary surplus. The others are Alberta (again the oil) and Saskatchewan (potash). Don't know abt Ontario and B.C. They used to be "have" provinces but they may be in the "have not" category now.

Also, of course, most goods and produce have to be shipped in to Newfie, which adds to the expense.

Labrador, which is part of the same province, is even more expensive because of its remoteness.

Glad you liked PEI. Wish it would stop raining though. We've had a very wet and cool Spring.

Reason it's expensive on the Rock (Nfld) now Buck is because of all the offshore oil they're mining. It's one of only two or three provinces in Canada now that has an annual budgetary surplus. The others are Alberta (again the oil) and Saskatchewan (potash). Don't know abt Ontario and B.C. They used to be "have" provinces but they may be in the "have not" category now.

Also, of course, most goods and produce have to be shipped in to Newfie, which adds to the expense.

Labrador, which is part of the same province, is even more expensive because of its remoteness.

Glad you liked PEI. Wish it would stop raining though. We've had a very wet and cool Spring.I was there in 1974. They didn't have two halfpennies to rub together and unemployment was way high. I was there to install a computer control system at a paper mill in stephenville. Joey Smallwood was the premier then and had this mill built on an old US airbase. Nothing much going for the place except the snow. you would get a real blizzard, a whiteout. It would blow in one direction all day and night, then the following day blow the same snow in the opposite direction, two blizzards for the price of one. For the high life we went to the Metropolis of Cornerbrook, which may well be the nicest town on the province. I took the oath of citizenship in Newfie, in front of a judge who, like many others, did not consider Canada any big deal, and strongly advised me to stay British. I thought being Canadian was being British until I was shuffled into a lineup at Heathrow among Americans and such, while EU citizens went ahead of us. I'll bet some ANZAC vets of WW2 would have loved that:hihi:

We moved to0 St John's, Nf. in 1971. Stayed there 26 yrs. You're right. It is a remote and desolate spot, though there's some spectacular scenery around Corner Brook (Gros Morne) and on the East coast (terra Nova park & Avalon peninsula).

When we got there, the old guy next door said, "Oh, you're from Canada, are you?"

The plebiscite to join Canada which Joey orchestrated passed by only 1% in 1949.

Many Newfs still regret joining Canada and they have strong ties to the UK. The Union Jack was the provincial flag until some time in the late 70s.

I sort of experienced this kind of racism when I first went to live in Sheffield.
My parents were in the forces and I was born in Germany.
We went to live in Sheffield when I was fifteen.
Of course not having a Sheffield accent and worse not having a Darnall accent made things very hard in the local area, but funnily not at school.(City Grammar)

iv got nothing against any man any colour any creed but it says something when i lose another job because of cheep foreign labour

I havent lost a job due to cheap foriegn labour........swings n roundabouts innit?

No, and I don't know anyone that this has happened to either... Perhaps it's never happened to cleanup either? What do you reckon???

I've lived in Florida for 17 years and usually drive up to Canada for 3 months in the summer and I've had some bad experiences by American border guards. One through my British passport at me because I pointed out to him the wording on the inside of the front cover which asks such as him to allow unhindered passage. I have a green card and don't drink or smoke so there wasn't any contraband it's just these obnoxious people who have replaced the regular ones to try and improve security.

I lived in Spain for 11 years and would go back in a shot if I was younger, I'm 82 and just can't go through the business of trying to sell up in the present economic climate so I'm stuck in bloody Florida. The Governor was CEO of a hospital group which embezzled 300 million dollars from Medicare, that's how bad it is.

No, and I don't know anyone that this has happened to either... Perhaps it's never happened to cleanup either? What do you reckon???

I know severn dry liners whom have lost their jobs in the last two week in the building trade its rife wats your job lady star

I live in Indonesia. A country that has an 86% Muslim population.
That's how I know all those "Muslims" stories are a load of crap.

The vast majority out here are wonderful people who literally offer a stranger the food from their table.

We've lived in Kenya for 20 years now and not a day goes by without comment being made,these would be 'racist' comments if said in UK but I just take them with a pinch....we are visably different and if we want to live here [which at the moment we do] you just take it as part and parcel.One difficult thing is we are treated different by the authorities whom see us as a cash cow and rip us off at EVERY available opportunity....we have no option but to pay or get out!!! No foreigners are allowed to stay in Kenya without working and we have to pay 5000 uk pounds every Two years for that 'priviledge'
But it's a great lifestyle and great for now....in these countries you have to take each day as it comes!!

I find people in many countries (excluding the Czech Republic and France, from my experience only) are far more welcoming, considerate and tolerant than the English, although I think Sheffield is quite a bad example for comparison.

No, and I don't know anyone that this has happened to either... Perhaps it's never happened to cleanup either? What do you reckon???
Sheffields Building trade was down in the dumps for twenty years then in or around the year 2000 it had a boom along with very good wages [usualy on the lump] then in approx 2005 the Polish and other East Europeans workers started to flood the City the wages that these guys were willing to accept again brought down every ones and on lots of sites it was Poles only so if you would like to know who lost any jobs well our trade for one!

I know severn dry liners whom have lost their jobs in the last two week in the building trade its rife wats your job lady star
Most people have no idea what European Imigrants have done to the Sheffield building workers jobs.

I was once told to '**** off back to where you came from' by a Londoner living in Suffolk. I know a lot of people down here who treat me differently to locals. A woman at work constantly criticises me for saying words such as path and bath instead of parth and barth.

One of the main problems is I'm just better in every way shape and form and although I try to be humble it just its to darn obvious

Sheffields Building trade was down in the dumps for twenty years then in or around the year 2000 it had a boom along with very good wages [usualy on the lump] then in approx 2005 the Polish and other East Europeans workers started to flood the City the wages that these guys were willing to accept again brought down every ones and on lots of sites it was Poles only so if you would like to know who lost any jobs well our trade for one!

Strange as my dad is a joiner and hasn't been troubled by losing work to poles??? His wages haven't suffered either, as he seems as flush as ever... That said, his work in in Chesterfield and North Notts - maybe they don't have Poles and there is a gap in the market there for Sheffield tradesmen?

I know severn dry liners whom have lost their jobs in the last two week in the building trade its rife wats your job lady star

My work involves trying to get Sheffield youth to take jobs, rather than believing they will marry a footballer, or win X Factor... It's a never ending slog, but you are quite right that it is a slog that requires UK people, as there are enough barriers with a language barrier as well...

I'm the only one of my family and friends to work in such a role though - everyone I know does something different, and noone has lost work to foreign labour... I guess if you can't compete, it's time to move into another line of work? This isn't the first type of work I have done, I have done loads and loads of different things over the years, just keep retraining...

It's a funny as Yorkshire accents are only looked down upon from Brits themselves, Britains snobbery seems to be mostly among the middle class and not the Rich :huh:

Very true! I lived in the South of England for many years, my accent sounds very mixed up by now, at first people kept taking the ****, and laughing at my accent. I live in small town America now, and people here love the way I speak, especially the way I say 'tomatoes'. :D

My work involves trying to get Sheffield youth to take jobs, rather than believing they will marry a footballer, or win X Factor... It's a never ending slog, but you are quite right that it is a slog that requires UK people, as there are enough barriers with a language barrier as well...

I'm the only one of my family and friends to work in such a role though - everyone I know does something different, and noone has lost work to foreign labour... I guess if you can't compete, it's time to move into another line of work? This isn't the first type of work I have done, I have done loads and loads of different things over the years, just keep retraining...

" noone has lost work to foreign labour,:mad:"Lady Star how about you looking at the car wash, there is only one car wash left in rotherham that is not worked by foreign labour ,and that is only the tip.:rant:
I have worked abroad in many countrys , and when in some ones country i try my best to speak and understand there language ,yet in our country we are supost to go along with them :loopy:

Strange as my dad is a joiner and hasn't been troubled by losing work to poles??? His wages haven't suffered either, as he seems as flush as ever... That said, his work in in Chesterfield and North Notts - maybe they don't have Poles and there is a gap in the market there for Sheffield tradesmen?
Oh well il,e get me coat!

Why has this degenerated into complaints about foreign workers taking Sheffield workers' jobs? That's not what the thread was supposed to be about.
:huh:

My work involves trying to get Sheffield youth to take jobs, rather than believing they will marry a footballer, or win X Factor... It's a never ending slog, but you are quite right that it is a slog that requires UK people, as there are enough barriers with a language barrier as well...

I'm the only one of my family and friends to work in such a role though - everyone I know does something different, and noone has lost work to foreign labour... I guess if you can't compete, it's time to move into another line of work? This isn't the first type of work I have done, I have done loads and loads of different things over the years, just keep retraining...
Retraining eh! well building trade knows all about retraining as every other industry that's gone to the wall in the last 25 years has decided to retrain there workers to be Bricklayers , Joiners, Plumbers, Plasterers etc.
This retraining usualy involved a six months course at a local technical college at the end of which our budding brickies etc turned up on some building site with a new set of tools and shiny boots a few then bluffed there way through but the majority couldn't lay in bed.
The proper tradesmen who had spent up to seven years as apprentices on low wages spotted these trainee,s straight away and understandably resented them so just another example of the building trade taking the brunt of do gooders in retraining centres.

Why has this degenerated into complaints about foreign workers taking Sheffield workers' jobs? That's not what the thread was supposed to be about.
:huh:

Thank you! That is not the reason I started the thread at all.:o:o

What about the French sect re have heard disturbing things from Canadians i have met in the past!

I think you mean the French set, Cuttsie? A sect is a religious offshoot. Anyhow, I get along fine with them. Quebec City is one of the nicest places to visit. Can't say I've ever lived in la belle province though.

The Quebecois do things differently from English Canada though and sometimes I'm glad of it. Like in the last federal election, they all decided to vote NDP ( = British Labor party), insuring that our ultra right wing Conservative government at least has some decent opposition. One candidate never bothered to show up in the riding that she contested, doesn't even live there, and was on holiday in Los Vegas. They voted her in. :hihi:

Why has this degenerated into complaints about foreign workers taking Sheffield workers' jobs? That's not what the thread was supposed to be about.
:huh:
Rog the thread is called are you made to feel an outcast in the fori----
And what certain people are trying to point out is why this situation comes about i don't suppose the same problem arise in the nice little office environments but in countries were migration has ALWAYS! affected the local manual workers most of all the problems always arise when the work slacks of and to many poorly paid workers are chasing the same jobs it happened in America and Germany in the thirties and it is happening now in the more established country,s of this stupid European Union.

I think you mean the French set, Cuttsie? A sect is a religious offshoot. Anyhow, I get along fine with them. Quebec City is one of the nicest places to visit. Can't say I've ever lived in la belle province though.

The Quebecois do things differently from English Canada though and sometimes I'm glad of it. Like in the last federal election, they all decided to vote NDP ( = British Labor party), insuring that our ultra right wing Conservative government at least has some decent opposition. One candidate never bothered to show up in the riding that she contested, doesn't even live there, and was on holiday in Los Vegas. They voted her in. :hihi:
I did mean the French sections of Canada Rog .being a nosy bugger when i meat up with any Foreigners i always like to ask them about there homeland and one or two Canadian people i have met have not spoken positively as to the French parts of Canada'

I feel an outcast in my OWN country.

My work involves trying to get Sheffield youth to take jobs, rather than believing they will marry a footballer, or win X Factor... It's a never ending slog, but you are quite right that it is a slog that requires UK people, as there are enough barriers with a language barrier as well...

I'm the only one of my family and friends to work in such a role though - everyone I know does something different, and noone has lost work to foreign labour... I guess if you can't compete, it's time to move into another line of work? This isn't the first type of work I have done, I have done loads and loads of different things over the years, just keep retraining...

before u start on the racist issue my granddad came over in the 30s from jamaica. I myself have worked in germany, spain, northern ireland and all over england. the point im trying to make is how many of these poor foreign would be employed if the employer had to give them the going rate for a tradesman Im sure your dad wouldn't work as a joiner for £6 an hour. as for retraining i am a bricklayer also a mechanical fitter and fire proofer

I think the UK is doing pretty well considering the density of population and diverse cultures, the whole world is slowly but surely moving towards global multiculturalism whether we like it or not, so racism will eventually die out, it's inevitable really so we may as well get used to it, better to embrace it I think.

If only racism would 'die out', and sexism too, I don't think it will not in my life span. If only!

We moved to Australia 37 years ago and have always felt welcome- comments on my accent aside lol.

Funny, a lot of people in Emmet, Idaho ask me if I'm Australian!

I feel an outcast in my OWN country.

I assume you stink and have a personality a German would find harsh. :)

I think you mean the French set, Cuttsie? A sect is a religious offshoot. Anyhow, I get along fine with them. Quebec City is one of the nicest places to visit. Can't say I've ever lived in la belle province though.

The Quebecois do things differently from English Canada though and sometimes I'm glad of it. Like in the last federal election, they all decided to vote NDP ( = British Labor party), insuring that our ultra right wing Conservative government at least has some decent opposition. One candidate never bothered to show up in the riding that she contested, doesn't even live there, and was on holiday in Los Vegas. They voted her in. :hihi:Apart from a year in Newfie, all of the rest of the nine years I spent in Canada were in Quebec, mostly in Montreal, my favorite city in the world, and 2 years in New Richmond on the Gaspe Peninsula. I speak fluent french, but the Montreal accent had me beat for a while. It is called Joual, the Montreal way of saying cheval, in other words horse language. Quebec City has a much cleaner accent. Much of the eastern townships bordering Vermont are loyalist settlements speaking English. The Seperatist movement, led by Rene Levesque, caused a lot of problems in the seventies when the Quebec government banned adverts in English, and insisted Companies had to conduct their business in French, including business letters to the US and elsewhere. When Pratt and Whitney threatened to move their Longueil engine plant to Ontario, Quebec backed down. That was the start of Toronto taking over as the major city in Canada, something that Montreal had always considered itself.

Very true! I lived in the South of England for many years, my accent sounds very mixed up by now, at first people kept taking the ****, and laughing at my accent. I live in small town America now, and people here love the way I speak, especially the way I say 'tomatoes'. :DI haven't eaten a tomarto in a long time, though I like a nice big Californian termayter now and then.:)

Apart from a year in Newfie, all of the rest of the nine years I spent in Canada were in Quebec, mostly in Montreal, my favorite city in the world, and 2 years in New Richmond on the Gaspe Peninsula. I speak fluent french, but the Montreal accent had me beat for a while. It is called Joual, the Montreal way of saying cheval, in other words horse language. Quebec City has a much cleaner accent. Much of the eastern townships bordering Vermont are loyalist settlements speaking English. The Seperatist movement, led by Rene Levesque, caused a lot of problems in the seventies when the Quebec government banned adverts in English, and insisted Companies had to conduct their business in French, including business letters to the US and elsewhere. When Pratt and Whitney threatened to move their Longueil engine plant to Ontario, Quebec backed down. That was the start of Toronto taking over as the major city in Canada, something that Montreal had always considered itself.

That is really interesting Buck, I had no idea. I have visited Toronto many times, it is beautiful, will have to venture further afield I think, next time to compare.

Only Brits seem snobbish about where people come from and their accent, Americans don't look down on any ones accent, i doubt if others countries do either, just England.

That is really interesting Buck, I had no idea. I have visited Toronto many times, it is beautiful, will have to venture further afield I think, next time to compare.

Toronto beautiful? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I much prefer Ottawa as a city with style and amenities in Ontario. I also like Montreal, the old part of the city especially, but Quebec City is for me the nicest city in Quebec. Elsewhere in Canada, Vancouver has a spectacular mountainous backdrop but it's become far too ghettoized with too many high rises in recent years. Saskatoon surprised me as a fairly decent spot when I visited it. Then, of course, there are some great spots in the Maritime provinces. Halifax is a very nice city.

Only Brits seem snobbish about where people come from and their accent, Americans don't look down on any ones accent, i doubt if others countries do either, just England.
The class system still rules in England .The old John Cleese sketch on i,m upper class and look down on him is alive and kicking they just keep it a bit quiete these days so as not to upset the peasants to much.

Rog the thread is called are you made to feel an outcast in the fori----
And what certain people are trying to point out is why this situation comes about i don't suppose the same problem arise in the nice little office environments but in countries were migration has ALWAYS! affected the local manual workers most of all the problems always arise when the work slacks of and to many poorly paid workers are chasing the same jobs it happened in America and Germany in the thirties and it is happening now in the more established country,s of this stupid European Union.

I can't speak of the situation in Sheffield. I can say that in the part of Canada where I live, there are precious few decent jobs to be had anyway. People with higher education often leave for jobs in more prosperous parts of Canada, leaving the poorly paid unskilled jobs to the immigrant workers whose skills are undervalued. I know of a qualified engineer from another country who is cleaning buses for a living.

I did mean the French sections of Canada Rog .being a nosy bugger when i meat up with any Foreigners i always like to ask them about there homeland and one or two Canadian people i have met have not spoken positively as to the French parts of Canada'

Shows you can't rely on the opinions of one or two people, cuttsie. The anti-French sentiment, such as it exists, tends to be concentrated in western parts of Canada such as Alberta where it goes along with right wing politics.

Shows you can't rely on the opinions of one or two people, cuttsie. The anti-French sentiment, such as it exists, tends to be concentrated in western parts of Canada such as Alberta where it goes along with right wing politics.
OK, Rog maybe i will meet a few lefty Canadians before to long who knows it may be on Castlegate.

OK, Rog maybe i will meet a few lefty Canadians before to long who knows it may be on Castlegate.

You'll be able to pick them out. They'll be wearing toques on their heads, muklucks on their feet, dressed like lumberjacks, and shouting things like "We want an organic market.Eh" and "Ban seal products in this market, Eh." Better to stay out of their way if they keep shouting while their mouths are full of fruit and nuts. Side spray, Eh. :hihi:

Toronto beautiful? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I much prefer Ottawa as a city with style and amenities in Ontario. I also like Montreal, the old part of the city especially, but Quebec City is for me the nicest city in Quebec. Elsewhere in Canada, Vancouver has a spectacular mountainous backdrop but it's become far too ghettoized with too many high rises in recent years. Saskatoon surprised me as a fairly decent spot when I visited it. Then, of course, there are some great spots in the Maritime provinces. Halifax is a very nice city. I have fond memories of the Grande Allee in Quebec City, and some of the finest dining in North America. The Winter Carnival and peewee hockey games with more ferocity than Canadiens versus the Maple Leafs, strolling the Heights of Abraham and a few too many wets in the Chateau Frontenac.:)Canada keeps its cities a lot cleaner than the US.

me and my x partner whom i still keep in touch with went to kimberly up in the rockys it was christmas time and every canadian we met was so polite. on exmas eve we went to a pub called the zone we w got drinking with a large group of canadians they asked my partner what we was doing for exmas dinner she replied nothing ... ( were stopping in bed if you know wat i mean) having a quiet day as we every year did all the cooking for all the family. Their wasn't one couple on this very large table who didn't invite us to exmas dinner we replied this is very nice of you but we could not intrude on this family occasion. T he next morning being woke up by receptionist saying we had numerous messages, leaving their address telephone number and an invite to exmas dinner such nice people the canadians

I've lived in Florida for 17 years and usually drive up to Canada for 3 months in the summer and I've had some bad experiences by American border guards. One through my British passport at me because I pointed out to him the wording on the inside of the front cover which asks such as him to allow unhindered passage. I have a green card and don't drink or smoke so there wasn't any contraband it's just these obnoxious people who have replaced the regular ones to try and improve security.

I lived in Spain for 11 years and would go back in a shot if I was younger, I'm 82 and just can't go through the business of trying to sell up in the present economic climate so I'm stuck in bloody Florida. The Governor was CEO of a hospital group which embezzled 300 million dollars from Medicare, that's how bad it is.You've probably been confronting border people with a bad attitude. Your user name alone indicates a dislike for a country you've lived in for 17 years, so I doubt you've made many friends here. I have no love for Florida either, but visit because my son lives there. As for me, I love Connecticut and have been a Citizen since 1987. Go back to Spain and leave a little room for someone more deserving than you. 9/11 was no lie:mad:

Only Brits seem snobbish about where people come from and their accent, Americans don't look down on any ones accent, i doubt if others countries do either, just England.

We northerners are totally aware that we have regional accents, however many southerners with strong southern accents, appear to consider themselves to be Queen's English speakers.

It's not the people who make you feel unwanted in America, it's the Government. Only small things like renewing a drivers licence or crossing the border from Canada. My wife got her licence re-newed locally but I had to drive 30 miles and then they didn't give it to like everybody else they posted it. This is obviously their way of avoiding fraud, so they claim but it gets up my nose.

Oulà ! Ca chauffe..!

Been living in Paris for fifteen years and never experienced any real anti-British sentiment; quite the opposite actually; when folk hear my Yorkshire accent they immediately become curious; some try their English out on me which now I find quite flattering. In the early days here I was so determined to speak French that if anyone responded in English I took it as an insult that my French wasn't good enough. Now I just reply "wow, you speak good English" which usually scores points.
Amazing too once they find out I'm English just how many French people have a cousin or a sister who lives in "Portsmoose" or Brighton, or whom once visited London...
Just a couple of weeks ago I got let into a local (4th divison) soccer ground for half price because of my accent....

edit : corrected spelling and here's a moderately amusing thing - try getting a French person to pronounce "Rotherham"

I haven’t read over 100 posts although I have scanned through quite a few and the point I would like to ask those that have moved aboard is ……. Did you take you British attitude with you or did you go there to embrace the live style? It seems to me that the problems here stem from foreigners trying to tell us how to do things rather that integrating.

Since SF seems to flooded with people getting on their high horse about legal and illegal immigrants, I though it was about time I asked British people abroad how they are treated. Do you feel welcome in the country you live in?

I've have only come across two people in the 18 months that I've been living in The U.S that disliked me because I'm a foreigner. I feel comfortable and at ease with people in this country:clap:

Hi Tulip I lived in RHODESIA (NOW KNOWN AS ZIMBABWE)for 10 years it was the best years of my life. the people were 1st class,if it had remained as RHODESIA I WOULD STILL BE THERE. iT CHANGED ME AS A PERSON & MY OUTLOOK ON LIFE KIND REGARDS DAVE BARRACLOUGH

I haven’t read over 100 posts although I have scanned through quite a few and the point I would like to ask those that have moved aboard is ……. Did you take you British attitude with you or did you go there to embrace the live style? It seems to me that the problems here stem from foreigners trying to tell us how to do things rather that integrating.

nice one totally agree

I haven’t read over 100 posts although I have scanned through quite a few and the point I would like to ask those that have moved aboard is ……. Did you take you British attitude with you or did you go there to embrace the live style? It seems to me that the problems here stem from foreigners trying to tell us how to do things rather that integrating.

I never thought about fitting in or not fitting in when i came to the US, i guess i just blended in without thinking , not untill an American would comment on how nice my" Scottish accent " was (it was a broad Sheffeidl one :) ) that i remembered I wasn't an American...40 odd years later I don't even think about it .

BUT, comming accross a Brit now and then usually from south of England they act like their sH** doesn't stink, there not happy campers meeting other Brits especially if you've been here longer than they have :hihi:

I never thought about fitting in or not fitting in when i came to the US, i guess i just blended in without thinking , not untill an American would comment on how nice my" Scottish accent " was (it was a broad Sheffeidl one :) ) that i remembered I wasn't an American...40 odd years later I don't even think about it .

BUT, comming accross a Brit now and then usually from south of England they act like their sH** doesn't stink, there not happy campers meeting other Brits especially if you've been here longer than they have :hihi:
Its the same when they come to live in Sheffield love they try to change it to match there imagination of what a city should be and are completely cocking us up!

Its the same when they come to live in Sheffield love they try to change it to match there imagination of what a city should be and are completely cocking us up!

What a pile of victim mentality flavoured cack.

What a pile of victim mentality flavoured cack.
Cack is that imported along with wine bars and cappuccino ! round here we call it crap.

Cack is that imported along with wine bars and cappuccino ! round here we call it crap.

He'll be from a crap hole down the M1.

He'll be from a crap hole down the M1.
It seems as though the majority on these posts are Retep why don,t they all go away and leave Our City to us.

What a pile of victim mentality flavoured cack.

What an odd reply :loopy:

Seriously guys, any chance of sticking to the topic in hand? I was finding it a very interesting read.

Doubt it Tess!

Toronto beautiful? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder. I much prefer Ottawa as a city with style and amenities in Ontario. I also like Montreal, the old part of the city especially, but Quebec City is for me the nicest city in Quebec. Elsewhere in Canada, Vancouver has a spectacular mountainous backdrop but it's become far too ghettoized with too many high rises in recent years. Saskatoon surprised me as a fairly decent spot when I visited it. Then, of course, there are some great spots in the Maritime provinces. Halifax is a very nice city.

Well it was the only place I had visited in Canada, and yep, I did like it, sorry if that offends you! Well it was the outskirts where I stayed, I only went to Toronto as a tourist, CN Tower, and stuff, stayed at Burlington and Hamilton

We go to St Andrews in New Brunswick for two months every year but I think this one coming up on the 6th July will be our last, we're just too old to cope with the long drive pulling a caravan. But I can fully recommend it.

I haven’t read over 100 posts although I have scanned through quite a few and the point I would like to ask those that have moved aboard is ……. Did you take you British attitude with you or did you go there to embrace the live style? It seems to me that the problems here stem from foreigners trying to tell us how to do things rather that integrating.

I accepted the fact that oz was a totaly different country and didn't try to compare it to UK. Iwas never called a winging pom as some ten pound poms .

I haven’t read over 100 posts although I have scanned through quite a few and the point I would like to ask those that have moved aboard is ……. Did you take you British attitude with you or did you go there to embrace the live style? It seems to me that the problems here stem from foreigners trying to tell us how to do things rather that integrating.

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm a Yorkshire lad and remain so but respect Indonesian culture and the way they go about things.

Well it was the only place I had visited in Canada, and yep, I did like it, sorry if that offends you! Well it was the outskirts where I stayed, I only went to Toronto as a tourist, CN Tower, and stuff, stayed at Burlington and Hamilton

No, doesn't offend me. Everyone to their own tastes. Toronto, otherwise referred to as Hogtown or the big T.O. by folk living elsewhere in Canada, is a big city with lots of attractions and amenities. I was just saying from a purely personal point of view that there are more attractive cities. Did you visit Niagara Falls? Also, once you get out of the suburban sprawl of greater Toronto, going north toward Alliston, there's some nice farming country.

I remember when first arrived in Canada everything was new,why even visiting the cheapest snack bar they even gave you a glass of ice water AND a napkin befor you order so much better than the skuzzy cafe in u.k in the 60s now befor u get your knickers in a twist last time I was in the U.K they had come a long way almost up to our standerd

No, doesn't offend me. Everyone to their own tastes. Toronto, otherwise referred to as Hogtown or the big T.O. by folk living elsewhere in Canada, is a big city with lots of attractions and amenities. I was just saying from a purely personal point of view that there are more attractive cities. Did you visit Niagara Falls? Also, once you get out of the suburban sprawl of greater Toronto, going north toward Alliston, there's some nice farming country.

Yes I did go to Niagara Falls one of the best things I have ever seen, you can feel the power of the water in your body, did the usual tourist stuff, Maid of the Mist, then went to American side, the 2nd time I went it was January, and the river was like something out of a film, iced up into surreal shapes. I went to Toronto as I went to stay with a friend, been 3 times now,so never did any holiday type research about best placeto visit etc. I'd like to go again to the north, maybe someday.

I remember when first arrived in Canada everything was new,why even visiting the cheapest snack bar they even gave you a glass of ice water AND a napkin befor you order so much better than the skuzzy cafe in u.k in the 60s now befor u get your knickers in a twist last time I was in the U.K they had come a long way almost up to our standerd

Yes same in the US even in the diners they bring you a glass of ice water as soon as you sit down, I'm a water drinker so i usually have to ask for another.