Am I the only getting a little tired of these “we want a gay bar” nonsense? It seems to me that such proclamations are reactionary and not in the slightest thought through.

For instance. What is a “gay bar”? What purpose will it serve that is not served by existing bars? Will “straight” people not be allowed in? And if so, how will doormen know who is gay and who isn’t?

To cite a point, I seem to recall an extremely ill fated night at the Forum called Polysexual. Despite being a regular patron of the Forum for nearly ten years, I was informed one Friday that I would not be allowed in that night. I asked why and was informed that Polysexual was a gay night and only gay people would be allowed in. And apparently, I didn’t “look gay”

Not only did this policy infuriate just about everyone it crossed, it also showed how Sheffield is still in the dark ages about addressing sexuality. Having lived in London and Brighton, the whole point about gay areas is that like-minded people can go and mix with like-minded people. This does NOT mean its is a heterosexual exclusion zone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Sheffield does not exactly have a huge gay scene. And bars like Forum, Halcyon, Dulo, Takapuna etc seem popular enough with a couple of gay guys I know.

If a “gay bar” where to open, I suspect it would turn into another uber pretenscious clique, just like so many other establishments in Sheffield that think a few downlighters, a plank of Walnut flooring and a Miu Miu crush at the bar somehow represents sophistication.

Not going to stomp on your argument, but just wanted to point out that Polysexual was on a Saturday night @ Forum (IIRC), not Friday.

i agree though,were not different kinds of people,why dont gay people and straight people just hang out at the same bars?

you dont hear anyone calling out for straight bars because they dont like a gay crowd

Sophisticated! Me? Ive bin t Leeds y know!

Originally posted by THCAyle
i agree though,were not different kinds of people,why dont gay people and straight people just hang out at the same bars?

you dont hear anyone calling out for straight bars because they dont like a gay crowd

Agreed. There's only a moronic minority that would actually be opposed to this!

I agree with most of what you say and we're getting 'married' in January! Purely for tax purposes obviously.........

surely if there was that much demand for a new gay bar there would be one. If there is a big enough demand there is usually a supply.

Quite surprised you were told you weren't allowed in at the Forum - thought the whole point of Polysexual was that it was for everyone?

As for the we want a gay bar "nonsense", I don't think anyone is arguing for total drinking segregation according to patrons' sexuality. But surely there's logic in there being a bar where gay people can go and meet potential partners??

You make it sound like any straight people venturing into a gay bar will be heckled and pelted with eggs! I've certainly always been made welcome in Dempseys, especially when the guy I go with is off on the pull and I'm left on my own like a lemon...

I've love to think that Sheffield was as forward thinking as the "why do they want their own bars" responses suggest... but sadly I'd imagine that an openly gay couple might not feel that comfortable in most of the bars in Sheffield on a saturday night

Mike I think you have a bit of a problem.

Where I live, there is one gay bar, only open on a Fri and Sat night. I never go, because I simply don't like it.

However, I go to Lloyds N1, Yates, Chicago's and Walkabout - These are all "str8" places - I enjoy going to them with friends, but I don't feel 100% happy in them.

Gay people can't "pull" or meet other gay people. It's hard. And like most str8 single people who go out, gay people like to pull too. I don't find myself in Public Loo's.

So I think gay bars are ace, take Canal St in Manchester. It's not just for gay people, everyone is welcome. Gay, str8, whatever - The atmosphere there is great.

You got some serious issues guy.

Originally posted by jake
I've love to think that Sheffield was as forward thinking as the "why do they want their own bars" responses suggest... but sadly I'd imagine that an openly gay couple might not feel that comfortable in most of the bars in Sheffield on a saturday night

So if I was out in a "Str8" bar and got off with another lad, how long would it take for me to have my head kicked in?

Originally posted by the fonz
surely if there was that much demand for a new gay bar there would be one. If there is a big enough demand there is usually a supply.

I suppose.

Im with you on that one trixiboi....that mikebayly neds to have a ood look look at himself in the mirror. He seems to think that he is a resonable, well adjusted kinda guy who has made a sensible and valid point
*hangs head and slowly shakes from side to side*
no mikebayly....you dont have a valid point.


Quote "Correct me if I am wrong, but Sheffield does not exactly have a huge gay scene. And bars like Forum, Halcyon, Dulo, Takapuna etc seem popular enough with a couple of gay guys I know.

If a “gay bar” where to open, I suspect it would turn into another uber pretenscious clique, just like so many other establishments in Sheffield that think a few downlighters, a plank of Walnut flooring and a Miu Miu crush at the bar somehow represents sophistication."

You're wrong....Sheffield does have a pretty big gay scene but its that fragmented (through things like not having somewhere decent to go for a drink where you're not running the risk of being beaten up) that it seems lie a smal scene.
In mentioning Dulo etc you are missing the point....they are nice places but they are straight bars!

For someone who doesn't seem to understand that much about the gay scene you do seem to have got a pretty good grasp of interior decorating....whats that all about?.....bit of a cliched stereotype but but coulnt help myself.
:-)

By the way mikebayly.....i wouldn't have called the discussions here thus far as being "hype".....would you rather it was all a bit more hush hush? You dont mind people doing that kind of thing as long as you dont hear about it??

I'll have to spring to mikes defence here I thought he made a really well balanced good point and wasn't being in anyway anti gay. I know more than a few people who complain that they can't go anywhere nice to meet potential partners and they're all straight. If it's such an easy thing to meet other 'straights' why is there such an interest in speed dating, online dating etc etc. Meeting someone you want to have more than a brief fling with is really difficult gay or straight.

Originally posted by TrixieBoi
So if I was out in a "Str8" bar and got off with another lad, how long would it take for me to have my head kicked in?

I think that was my point..

i think most places you go you wont get your head kicked in though,try nice easy vibed bars like sharkeys or dulo?

Originally posted by mikebayly
Am I the only getting a little tired of these “we want a gay bar” nonsense? It seems to me that such proclamations are reactionary and not in the slightest thought through.



What the hell is your problem?!

It just seems like your trying to provoke a GAYS v STRAIGHTs debate on here or something.

I'm not gonna defend why I think Sheffield should have a decent gay bar as its all been said on the Forum before and if you had half a brain cell you would understand why.:loopy: :loopy:

but whats the point in dividing gay and straight people even more by hanging around in different bars?

UNITY IS THE ANSWER

discrimination gets noone anywhere

Originally posted by THCAyle
but whats the point in dividing gay and straight people even more by hanging around in different bars?

UNITY IS THE ANSWER

discrimination gets noone anywhere

Well, the minnority of homophobic idiots out there are the ones stopping the unity going further at the moment. :| Nice idea, just not practical yet.

Originally posted by THCAyle
but whats the point in dividing gay and straight people even more by hanging around in different bars?

UNITY IS THE ANSWER

discrimination gets noone anywhere


Its all very well saying that, but it's ******! Gay people won't ever be able to go into a "str8" bar and pull. It's as SIMPLE AS THAT.

Originally posted by TrixieBoi
Its all very well saying that, but it's ******! Gay people won't ever be able to go into a "str8" bar and pull. It's as SIMPLE AS THAT.

Never say never Trixie! ;) Just not yet....

Originally posted by mikebayly
Am I the only getting a little tired of these “we want a gay bar” nonsense? It seems to me that such proclamations are reactionary and not in the slightest thought through.

I don't think you have thought it through.

Originally posted by mikebayly

For instance. What is a “gay bar”? What purpose will it serve that is not served by existing bars? Will “straight” people not be allowed in? And if so, how will doormen know who is gay and who isn’t?

The purpose of a gay bar is to provide a safe space for gays and lesbians to meet and socialise.

Straight people are usually allowed in because they know what type of establishment they are visiting. As long as they don't stand around with jaw agape as they see same sex couples in friendly embraces, and even occasionally kissing each other, they'll be more than welcome.

Originally posted by mikebayly

To cite a point, I seem to recall an extremely ill fated night at the Forum called Polysexual. Despite being a regular patron of the Forum for nearly ten years, I was informed one Friday that I would not be allowed in that night. I asked why and was informed that Polysexual was a gay night and only gay people would be allowed in. And apparently, I didn’t “look gay”

Not only did this policy infuriate just about everyone it crossed, it also showed how Sheffield is still in the dark ages about addressing sexuality.

Never heard of Polysexual (perhaps that's why it was 'ill fated'?). However, as this was clearly a gay night, it seems that the doorstaff were just ensuring that the admissions policy was adhered to. It was a gay night, (as opposed to being a gay bar), so you really shouldn't have been too miffed about missing one night in ten years at the Forum.


Originally posted by mikebayly

Having lived in London and Brighton, the whole point about gay areas is that like-minded people can go and mix with like-minded people. This does NOT mean its is a heterosexual exclusion zone.

Now you've shifted the argument from gay bars, through a gay night at the Forum to gay areas. You need to separate the issues here. Yes, there are gay areas in London (Soho) and Brighton, and nearer to home, Manchester (Canal Street) and Birmingham (Gay village). They are all very welcoming of straight people, and are not heterosexual exclusion zones. Sheffield does not have any such gay area. There is no comparison.

Originally posted by mikebayly

Correct me if I am wrong, but Sheffield does not exactly have a huge gay scene. And bars like Forum, Halcyon, Dulo, Takapuna etc seem popular enough with a couple of gay guys I know.


Sheffield does have a gay scene. Compared to London, Brighton, Manchester and Birmingham, then it isn't huge. Compared to some other cities (e.g., Nottingham, Derby, Leicester), it's at least on a par.

Originally posted by mikebayly

If a “gay bar” where to open, I suspect it would turn into another uber pretenscious clique, just like so many other establishments in Sheffield that think a few downlighters, a plank of Walnut flooring and a Miu Miu crush at the bar somehow represents sophistication.

I couldn't possibly comment on "so many other establishments in Sheffield". But as your question is hypothetical anyway, we'll maybe never know!

Oh dear trixie you have no idea what goes on at all. Well I've never done this before, I'm just bi-curious, my wife doesn't understand me, we did this at my boarding school..............

When will people understand that it's 90% people and about 10% environment. If it's that much in demand then open a gay bar it should be packed to the rafters. Why is it someone elses responsibility to provide everything for you? It does'nt take loads of cash as another thread seemed to think it take a vision, belief in what you are doing and hard work. I blame the nanny state culture.

Originally posted by TrixieBoi
Its all very well saying that, but it's ******! Gay people won't ever be able to go into a "str8" bar and pull. It's as SIMPLE AS THAT.

Well I have, and I know several other people who have.

Oh God Nick was it you?????lol

Which one were you, Dirk or Rusty ?

Laugh - I nearly bought a round!!

its never going to get anywhere if everyone keeps thinking like this...

just see people for who they are not who they want..

Agree THC, agree.

Plenty of pubs with a good mix of gay/straight/bi clientelle. You've just got to know where to go.

Tell you though, there are some places i've been to with my gay friends, and you can fell peoples eyes burning into the back of your head.

Every pub i've every run and ever will run welcomes anyone but bigots.


:O

Originally posted by TheWatcher

Every pub i've every run and ever will run welcomes anyone but bigots.


:O

what about smallots :-) ?

lol, yer got me there yer monkey!

:)

Originally posted by TrixieBoi
Its all very well saying that, but it's ******! Gay people won't ever be able to go into a "str8" bar and pull. It's as SIMPLE AS THAT.

Originally posted by nick2
Well I have, and I know several other people who have. Originally posted by TrixieBoi

How did that work??

Originally posted by The_Sharp

How did that work??

One was a friend of a friend and we just got chatting (In All Bar One), I wasn't too sure but you can throw in comments and questions to check if you're barking up the wrong tree.

I met my current boyfriend in a hotel bar.

Originally posted by nick2
One was a friend of a friend and we just got chatting (In All Bar One), I wasn't too sure but you can throw in comments and questions to check if you're barking up the wrong tree.

I met my current boyfriend in a hotel bar.

Oh right! lol

Sorry i thought you meant you went in and pulled a straight bloke!

How does a bar become a gay bar in the first place? Like dempseys is now - how does it get a reputation and therefore become regularly frequented by gays (and avoided like the plague by most straight people)
And as for gays pulling in a bar (only gay people seem to call them straight bars) you have to realise that being gay is still a big faux pas even though society is much more liberal than it was a few years ago. Gay people must realise that it is strange for straight people to understand their sexuality and therefore some people may resort to violence, verbal abuse etc. Not condoning it one bit - but you have to realise it is still a thing that gets 'swept under the carpet' no matter how much you would wish otherwise.

Originally posted by The_Sharp
Oh right! lol

Sorry i thought you meant you went in and pulled a straight bloke!

God no, though I have come close a couple of times.

Originally posted by The_Sharp
Oh right! lol

Sorry i thought you meant you went in and pulled a straight bloke!

sorry to butt in, but if you pulled him he can't be straight!?

Originally posted by Lucky_13
How does a bar become a gay bar in the first place? Like dempseys is now - how does it get a reputation and therefore become regularly frequented by gays (and avoided like the plague by most straight people)

Word of mouth, plus gay magazines and newspapers publish the details.

Dempeys does have a reputation - but for some it's a dire reputation! In fairness, I've never been to Dempseys - as I object to the door charge they apparently impose.

Originally posted by Lucky_13

And as for gays pulling in a bar (only gay people seem to call them straight bars) you have to realise that being gay is still a big faux pas even though society is much more liberal than it was a few years ago. Gay people must realise that it is strange for straight people to understand their sexuality and therefore some people may resort to violence, verbal abuse etc. Not condoning it one bit - but you have to realise it is still a thing that gets 'swept under the carpet' no matter how much you would wish otherwise.

I think gay people all too readily understand the reaction of some (but not all) straight people, and that is one reason why we prefer to have our own drinking establishments. A vibrant gay scene is the answer, e.g., Manchester's Canal Street, London's Soho, Birmingham's gay village - where straight people are welcome, but gay people can relax and be at ease with their sexuality in an accommodating and friendly environment.

Sadly, I don't see that happening in Sheffield.

Originally posted by Bedhead
sorry to butt in, but if you pulled him he can't be straight!?

People experiment, you know the old saying "Don't knock it until you've tried it".

People also get drunk.

For those of you that are gay, can I ask - does it bother you when people stare at you when you are out with your partner, or do you try and minimise that by not appearing to be attached in public? (ie not holding hands)

On the one hand I can't imagine anything worse than not being able to give my boyfriend a big hug when I see him. On the other hand I had a rather nasty experience the other night (I think I've already posted about it) when I caught myself gawping at two men kissing in the pub - one of them saw me and pointed me out to the other and they were both shaking their heads and looked really cross :( I may have misread the situation but I think they thought I was being nasty about them - I tried to smile at them to show them I was just being daft but it didn't work and I felt really bad!

Originally posted by kathythebean
For those of you that are gay, can I ask - does it bother you when people stare at you when you are out with your partner, or do you try and minimise that by not appearing to be attached in public? (ie not holding hands)


We're not that bothered, neither of us is very "gay acting" so I guess we don't attract attention and we're not into holding hands and other such mushy stuff in public anyway.

Oh good nick2 so it wasnt you then :)

Originally posted by kathythebean
For those of you that are gay, can I ask - does it bother you when people stare at you when you are out with your partner, or do you try and minimise that by not appearing to be attached in public? (ie not holding hands)



We don't make a scene (!) while we're out - but how we are with each other does depend on where we are and who else is there.

You tend to get a feel of the place, which can then change the way we act. It's not always the same in the same bars either, it just depends who else is in there at the time.

If we feel the place is full of "nice" people, then we'd feel comfortable being a little bit more physical with each other, and even then we wouldn't be all over each other - but to someone looking closely, it would probably be clear that we're more than just mates!

Sad that we have to be like this really, but anything for a quiet life :-)

Saying that though - I don't really like to see any couple, straight or gay, all over each other in a bar - put's me off my beer!

We tend to go out for something to eat rather than a drink, just us I think never that keen on pubs. Not mad keen on public displays of affection but do very occasionaly find myself fighting the urge to give him a hug.

We went to posh hotel once for a night when we got a new Lotus. Got some odd looks as we shoehorned our bags out of the excuse for a boot, presumed they were old fuddy duddys looking at the car.

Checked in, red faces behind reception, and got to the room to find chambermaid hastily replacing the ladies set of toiletries with a second set of gentlemans stuff. Oh how we laughed as we turned round and saw the welcome note on the table "Dear Mr & Mrs........ welcome to........"

I wrote this experience to the Guardian once and got it printed...!

Hotel reception staff are great, the look as it slowly dawns on them that you intend to sleep togther, the the same bed, in their hotel !

Originally posted by nick2
Hotel reception staff are great, the look as it slowly dawns on them that you intend to sleep togther, the the same bed, in their hotel !

Completely different thing happened to us on holiday last month - we'd pushed the single beds together in the room, the chambermaid made the beds as normal each morning, then after seeing us both in the room one day, everyday after that the beds were decorated with fresh flowers and the towels and sheets were folded into heart shapes! Very touching!

So I guess some people can accept us...shame we have to fly 4 hours away though!

Originally posted by kathythebean
For those of you that are gay, can I ask - does it bother you when people stare at you when you are out with your partner, or do you try and minimise that by not appearing to be attached in public? (ie not holding hands)

The short answer is yes. I don't yet think we have reached the stage of tolerance and acceptance in society whereby my partner and I would feel comfortable holding hands or showing signs of affection in public. That's one reason why gay spaces are important.

Originally posted by kathythebean

On the one hand I can't imagine anything worse than not being able to give my boyfriend a big hug when I see him. On the other hand I had a rather nasty experience the other night (I think I've already posted about it) when I caught myself gawping at two men kissing in the pub - one of them saw me and pointed me out to the other and they were both shaking their heads and looked really cross :( I may have misread the situation but I think they thought I was being nasty about them - I tried to smile at them to show them I was just being daft but it didn't work and I felt really bad!

It's the gawping we don't like! Makes you feel like you're in a fishbowl, with folk staring at you. But, I can understand your reaction Kathythebean, when you may not be familiar with the sight of two men showing affection in public. And so we are circumspect - and try not to draw attention to ourselves. There are still gay-bashers about, and folk who will cause trouble. Yet another reason to have gay friendly spaces, where we can relax and be ourselves. Straights are still welcome though - because they will at least know the scene!.

We are though living in a much more tolerant age. I am old enough to remember when homosexuality was illegal. Now, we on are the verge of having legally recognised partnerships, so, we have come a long way in a relatively short period of time.

Married friends of ours have two girls, J aged 11, and L aged 8. The girls eventually began asking questions of their parents about my partner and myself, such as 'Why aren't we married?', and similar. Mum wasn't sure how to proceed, and took advice from her sister-in-law, (a close friend of ours). She advised telling the girls that we were partners, and loved each other, just like some men and women love each other - only we are two men.

At an opportune moment, the advice was duly followed. There was a pregnant silence apparently, before L said "That's cool - because that means they have romantic dinners together".

I am optimistic that future generations won't bat an eyelid at two men showing affection in public. Meanwhile, I'm presently cooking a romantic dinner for us this evening - but it's definitely not my turn to wash up the pots afterwards!

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by redrobbo
I am optimistic that future generations won't bat an eyelid at two men showing affection in public. Meanwhile, I'm presently cooking a romantic dinner for us this evening - but it's definitely not my turn to wash up the pots afterwards!

:thumbsup:

Get him to buy you a dishwasher, there are more interesting things to be chained to than a sink :)

I think kathytheebean must have just caught a bad moment, don't worry too much about upsetting people, we get used to it.

Must agree with how far we've come on the last few years though, quite incredible. So much is down to how you approach things (IMO), we've run businesses in Sheffield together for 15 years, very much in the public eye too. I can count on the fingers of one hand the adverse comments and reactions we have had.

Have to include the bloke who fell out with us after months of us pandering to his every whim, went off quite alarmingly, so abusive. crept back in a couple of months later apologising and asking if he we would let him back in. We said he could!

Spot on nick2 about the dishwasher, saves on the water bills too contrary to first thoughts!

u guys would love prison or the army

I was in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary for 10 years went to the Falklands in 82 and both Gulf Wars (got medal the first time). Worked with the Army and the Navy quite closely but no encounters of a close and intimate kind to relate, well not that happened onboard ship anyway.

And I know several people who have been in prison and they havent mentioned any romatic experiences (unless you count being gang raped in the showers as romantic).