...or just a bunch of hapless snappers?

:rant:

I remember a day when we talked about photography in this section - sometimes about equipment, sometimes about techniques and sometimes even about images. When we were at last able to post images we started sharing photographs that we thought had some merit and constructively (mostly) criticising each other's work. Now it seems to be just a branch of photobucket with the emphasis more on bucket than photo.

Is it just me or is anyone else getting a bit fed up of the endless parade of snap shots of where we went last Saturday? (And even more fed up when many of them are so ginormous it takes forever to scroll past them and I've forgotten what the thread was about by the time I get to some words!)

/:rant:

I agree with you to an extent, even though I've been rather guilty of it myself just lately.
Waiting for massive images to load is a pain.

However, I also think the forum should be open for people to post whatever photos they like. We all had to start somewhere. Posting snapshots is a starting point. Maybe people can learn a little from the responses they get to their posts and develop their skills from there.

It does say that all levels of ability are welcome.

I think if people have the courage to post their photos, then we should be a little more encouraging than some of the responses I have seen of late. If we can't be constructive in our criticism, maybe it's best to just say nothing.

Some good points from Astraman. I doubt anyone would have a problem with constructive critisism but a few threads recently seem to have got critisism that wasn't constructive at all (just hurtful I imagine).
I guess it's about making useful suggestions for improvement avoiding the two extremes of nasty comments or pointless gushing about favourite shots.
If we are not careful no one will dare post anything for fear of the responses!

I know what you mean. It doesn't overly bother me though, if I click on a thread and it contains 'snaps' rather than photography I just tend to ignore it and move on.

There is still a lot of good photography being posted to the forum.

Perhaps an alternative would be to create a 'snapshots' subforum?

As a 'snapper' I saw the opportunity to share experiences and images on the forum a bonus. I as I am sure others have now realised, it has become populated by pompous professionals and hobby 'artists' who seem to see this section as their own private gallery or critique sounding board.

Not quite sure that was the ethos behind the original idea, which is probably why the most of the original a. moderators are not bothering anymore, you really are quite up yourselves with your high brow attitude to this 'group' or should 'clique' be a better turn of phrase.

If, you don't like it, go find a php board and start one up which exclusively vets the aptitude and quality of the participants before allowing any posts. Nobody is perfect, to be honest some people (me included) took a picture, liked it, regardless of composition/lighting/trickery/angles and thought I'll stick that one on 'what the hell'.

So tough, if you don't like the am dram version of photography tough - like it or lump it. A picture regardless of its quality says something, even if its just that somebody was interested enough in the subject to record it.

Chow for now.

edit: also Imp, the threads give an indication of the subject pictures so if you don't fancy sharing somebodys saturday don't open it.

fox20thc fully agree with you.

There should be 3 Categories:

Professional: (who wants to make money out of the forum)
Amateur: ? non professional but enjoys photography.
Me joe bloggs: taking photos what is an interest to myself and maybe others.

Which Categorie do you fall into Implnabox
The photography categorie does state " any level of photography doesn't
say anything about the fact we are not professionals.

I think your on the wrong forum Implnabox
I enjoy viewing forum members photos whatever level they are.

"JUST KEEP SNAPPING AWAY" Everyone.:thumbsup:

Imp...we all enjoy this hobby to get an end result and strive to improve on our technique's. The only way to do this is to post your results for others in the hobby to comment constructively by the way of offering advice. We all want to be better at what we do.

Harry, the 'constructive comment' posted on my innocent thread was far from supportive or helpful. If anything it was alienating as was Imps OP.

eg:


These pictures are not photography..I think I must be going mad. These are snapshots that are out of focus, badly composed, boring subjects and just a but ordinary.

The difference between snapshots is what I like to call 'soap opera/hollywood movie" - Soaps film from a wide angle, very flat, straight and boring...Movies crop in close, work the angles, look at interesting lighting and try to tell the story through mood and atmosphere. These are definitely soap opera...but with a little more zoom, getting closer to the subjects, shooting a bit lower, maybe a couple of mono conversions and you'd have something interesting to look at.

I have a bog standard point and shoot cheapo camera, I was there, I took the snap and shared it, I wasn't expecting such a tirade of distaste for a photo. I thought the forum was welcoming and supportive, not vitriolic and nasty.

I agree Fox, and i can understand how you feel at the moment. If i were you i would probably feel the same.

I recently had a thread slated by a couple of members but i still thanked the members all the same for the comments left, the images i produce will not be to everyones taste, thats just the way it is. As long as you like what you produce, thats all that matters.

Don't get disheartened, keep plugging away and you will improve. You will always get not very nice people, just ignore em and keep snapping.

Best of luck!

Here's my 2p worth.

There are some threads on here that, agreeing with Imp, seem to be a way of sharing photos with friends. This isn't what the board was set up for, and no offence fox - you didn't ask for critique or criticism, but simply wanted to share. This isn't photobucket, myspace or facebook, it's a space for Sheffield photographs to share tips, tricks and techniques and then receive feedback on their efforts.

I like your comparison with AmDram, but perhaps not in the way you think. To take part in an AmDram production you have to go through an audition process, during rehearsals your performance is critiqued and often criticised, often in no uncertain terms. You can't just turn up in front of an audience and perform - you would get laughed off the stage. Un(?)fortunately with photography, this is the case. Anybody can have a camera, anybody can turn up in front of the stage and show off their works - there are places for doing that. I'm not sure that this forum is one of those.

We appreciate photos being posted, we enjoy sharing photos but for me this is a bit more of an artistic space. I'm certainly not an amazing photographer, and I wouldn't class myself as a good photographer but I carefully select what I post on here, and keep a lot of the tosh that I shoot away!

I do agree with you re: moderation though. We don't seem to have many of the moderation team for this group check in regularly, which is a shame. There isn't any guidance as to what this forum should be - and perhaps that would help.

:)

Which Categorie do you fall into Implnabox

I could suggest one. :)

Personally (in a non-official SF statement sort of way ;)) I think the group is called a Photography Group.

As such, on the occasions I post an image or two I would expect, indeed hope for, peoples thoughts and criticisms of my images.

If those opinions can be put across in a supportive manner, all the better. Sometimes comments about photos do seem rather brutal.

As this is a photo group, people should be aware when images are posted then the poster may get 'advice' about the images. The technical aspects as well as an overall do/don't like it.

I wouldn't venture into the pets group and say I keep my animals in such a way that others think is inappropriate for the animal without expect some of the group to tell me as such (in no uncertain terms).

Eee - there's nowt like a good rant for stirring things up! :D In this case it was a 'last straw' reaction - I'm just fed up with seeing an endless stream of snapshots followed by posts that seem to be almost criticizing but hardly daring to say what they really mean. The last straw for me was the Hillsborough Walled Garden - a bunch of huge snaps with no words of explanation at all. Was it a post telling us about the walled garden - maybe as a possible venue for a meet sometime? That would have been interesting but the pics didn't show much of the garden - all fairly tightly framed. Was it about some event happening there? Apart from the guy with the drum it just looked like a bunch of people wandering around with their backs to the camera doing nothing in particular.

I venture into this section to see what other people are doing - photographically - and to discuss the results. To be inspired and perhaps occasionally to inspire, to learn and in turn to pass on what I've learned elsewhere. There are still a good number of inspiring images - the sort that make me want to rush out with my camera and try similar things myself, or to remember for next time the opportunity arises. But there are also a good number of admirable photographers who don't seem to post any more. I just hope we haven't driven them away.

Eee - there's nowt like a good rant for stirring things up! :D In this case it was a 'last straw' reaction - I'm just fed up with seeing an endless stream of snapshots followed by posts that seem to be almost criticizing but hardly daring to say what they really mean. The last straw for me was the Hillsborough Walled Garden - a bunch of huge snaps with no words of explanation at all. Was it a post telling us about the walled garden - maybe as a possible venue for a meet sometime? That would have been interesting but the pics didn't show much of the garden - all fairly tightly framed. Was it about some event happening there? Apart from the guy with the drum it just looked like a bunch of people wandering around with their backs to the camera doing nothing in particular.

I venture into this section to see what other people are doing - photographically - and to discuss the results. To be inspired and perhaps occasionally to inspire, to learn and in turn to pass on what I've learned elsewhere. There are still a good number of inspiring images - the sort that make me want to rush out with my camera and try similar things myself, or to remember for next time the opportunity arises. But there are also a good number of admirable photographers who don't seem to post any more. I just hope we haven't driven them away.

I agree with you on some of your points here Imp and did not use this forum as much because of a certain few who would rather slate instead of forming constructive criticism and then offer advice to help those individuals. Then i noticed that those who slate don't show many of their own images....it's a funny old world aint it!

I do hope things start improving to get the forum back on track, a little give and take from everyone would go a long way i think.

Cheers, H.

I have to agree with the original post. I've see some on here that either didn't look good enough for the average reject bin or in one instance like a snap for an e bay advert.

It IS a photography forum where people who genuinely enjoy photography want advice.

I post rarely but on the occasions i do i expect a genuine critic and not a mutual back slapping of "oh isn't it lovely, which phone did you take it on"

Dafoot has criticed some of my photos and pointed out that i have an issue with cropping too tightly. This was useful and instead of being offended it has actually improved my photography.

If you use a point and shoot fair enough, but if you don't want to improve then your on the wrong site.

imp: you still haven't answered the question
" Which Categorie do you fall into"

Professional: (who wants to make money out of the forum)
Amateur: ? non professional but enjoys photography.
Me joe bloggs: taking photos what is an interest to myself and maybe others.:huh:

and you answered your own question:
" I just hope we haven't driven them away"

that statement speaks volumes...

Why do you always have to state "what the picture/photo is about"
let your mind just flow, creative license.

just get rid of the nonsense competition and just let the forum members decide themselves if it is good or bad, (who really cares):rant:
happy snapping everyone!!

Why do you always have to state "what the picture/photo is about"
let your mind just flow, creative license.
You don't have to at all, but it is sometimes nice to have some background info to images.

just get rid of the nonsense competition and just let the forum members decide themselves if it is good or bad, (who really cares):rant:
happy snapping everyone!!
It's just a bit of fun. No one really cares, just trying to enjoy their hobby/profession and share their passion with like minded people.

If you don't like the comp, you are not forced to enter/read the voting threads.

imp: you still haven't answered the question
" Which Categorie do you fall into"

Professional: (who wants to make money out of the forum)
Amateur: ? non professional but enjoys photography.
Me joe bloggs: taking photos what is an interest to myself and maybe others.:huh:


OK - if it's important to you - I don't fall into any of your categories: I make money out of photography but I'm not a full time pro, and I don't make money out of the forum! I also enjoy photography and particularly enjoy learning anything that will help me improve the images I produce. If that makes me some kind of photography zealot or snob in your eyes then so be it.


...Why do you always have to state "what the picture/photo is about"
let your mind just flow, creative license...

Interesting turn around there, Office. I've always thought you should be creative when you're taking the shot not when you're looking at it. I'd prefer people to say "Wow!" when they see one of my pics rather than "huh?". But people post pictures for lots of reasons and it helps to know if they're pointing out a good location or asking for comments or advice.

...just get rid of the nonsense competition and just let the forum members decide themselves if it is good or bad..

Er... I thought that was the whole point of the competition - it's judged by forum members.

...who really cares

Ah - now you're asking a good question!

I have just noticed that Fox's images are no longer on his thread http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471467 this could be due to the harshness of a few of the reply's to his thread and him feeling very let down.

Personally, i am disappointed if this is the case, it could have been an opportunity for us to help him take better images in time, which should be one of the forum's main goals in my opinion.

If i have the wrong end of the stick or am being out of order please let me know but if i am right and you read this Fox, get your images back up and we will all contribute at least one link to guide you in the right direction and give you as much help as we possibly can.

Cheers, H.

Why do you always have to state "what the picture/photo is about"
let your mind just flow, creative license.

The whole point to a forum though is to talk about stuff... not just post pics... if I'm not mistaken there are already heaps of sites out there for that very reason.

Speaking from a personal point of view I see this section of SF as an area to share a common interest, pick up new techniques and get advice... and to receive criticism (that is pretty important in my view as it is how we learn). I must make clear at this point I'm not talking about abuse, but general honest opinions other than "that’s nice".

From what I can gather most of the Pros on here all give some very sound advice... in some cases very honest which some people don't seem to care for. But the fact is in this industry opinions matter... and if you want to produce something other than a "happy snap" you have to listen to what is being said, and in particular by those in the game. After all you don't survive for long working as a photographer if you are crap and can't take a picture.

I think the points people made about fox's OP was valid... if you posted just a link elsewhere in the forum you could expect some people to be asking "What?" or "Point being?".

I think these days one thing that gets overlooked is owning a camera doesn't make you a photographer or even a hobbyist photographer in the same way a cooker doesn't make you a budding chef.

Lets see people posting their best stuff, learning from the critiques/opinions and then improving. Lets see people getting good advise about equipment, techniques etc. Not become an endless list of "today's pics by fred" (I don't know if anyone is called Fred but it isn't aimed at anyone).

If you put yourself in Fox's shoes and then read some of the responses to his thread and you will see what i can see and maybe understand how the guy feels.

We all started somewhere and we let the guy down.......badly, he took some pic's, had the courage to post them and did not get the response he was hoping for which ultimately resulted in this thread.

Personally i feel ashamed for Sheffield forum photography.

Please understand, this is just me being me putting myself in someone else's shoes to understand why they would take their images off their own thread.....disgusting!

Cheers, H.

If you put yourself in Fox's shoes and then read some of the responses to his thread and you will see what i can see and maybe understand how the guy feels.

We all started somewhere and we let the guy down.......badly, he took some pic's, had the courage to post them and did not get the response he was hoping for.

Personally i feel ashamed for Sheffield forum photography.

I don't disagree about the fact that some people were harsh and in some cases very off indeed... but with regards the bit "and did not get the response he was hoping for" it was hard to tell from th OP what was being hoped for which is by no means an excuse for some of the responces however it is a mitigating factor to a degree.

I think the think to remember... like with any other area of the forum is that some people are just no going to be nice "period" and posting anything leaves you open for attack be it a picture or an opinion. Lets face it there are some pretty nasty people lurking in this forum who seem to get there kicks out of upsetting people.

In short if you "put something out there" expect a wide variety of responces... don't take them personally... sift through the rubbish and take note of the useful comments.

If you put yourself in Fox's shoes and then read some of the responses to his thread and you will see what i can see and maybe understand how the guy feels.

We all started somewhere and we let the guy down.......badly, he took some pic's, had the courage to post them and did not get the response he was hoping for which ultimately resulted in this thread.

Personally i feel ashamed for Sheffield forum photography.

Please understand this is just me being me, cheers, H.

I can totally see where you are coming from HarryMac - I strongly feel that criticism is good only if it is constructive and there are a few people on here that slate photos without giving advice on how to improve. Maybe it's unintentional and just read that way (so easy to do that with the printed word).
Maybe this is an opportunity for people to start thinking about responses they post before hitting the submit button!

I don't disagree about the fact that some people were harsh and in some cases very off indeed... but with regards the bit "and did not get the response he was hoping for" it was hard to tell from th OP what was being hoped for which is by no means an excuse for some of the responces however it is a mitigating factor to a degree.

I think the think to remember... like with any other area of the forum is that some people are just no going to be nice "period" and posting anything leaves you open for attack be it a picture or an opinion. Lets face it there are some pretty nasty people lurking in this forum who seem to get there kicks out of upsetting people.

In short if you "put something out there" expect a wide variety of responces... don't take them personally... sift through the rubbish and take note of the useful comments.

You have some valid points here but one thing you fail to see. Look at the bigger picture, new visitors to Sheffield forum photography may look at some post's here and be put off by some of the response's they see. Therefore the forum does not grow with both experienced, that may offer alot to the forum and inexperienced that we can offer alot to.

It has surely got to be give and take on both sides.

... sift through the rubbish and take note of the useful comments.

Ahh...I liked this phrase! Life is too short to take all those "unfriendly" comments to heart and make ourself feeling miserable. :D:D

Maybe I should post more pictures for C&C now that it is HOT debate here...:hihi: and I don't mind taking the batting either. :gag:

You have some valid points here but one thing you fail to see. Look at the bigger picture, new visitors to Sheffield forum photography may look at some post's here and be put off by some of the response's they see. Therefore the forum does not grow with both experienced, that may offer alot to the forum and inexperienced that we can offer alot to.

It has surely got to be give and take on both sides.

I don't disagree with that sentiment however I am just acknowledging "the beast" that is Sheffield Forum and the variety of people and comments it attracts no matter what section you are in.

I wouldn't be suprised if we all end up having the same conversation again in a year's time... it's just the way some things are on here.

Post -> Sift -> Digest -> Practice -> Evolve

Hi

Can you not restrict the size of the photo that is posted? It is very easy on photobucket to resize the image to make it suitable for the forum. That way at least the photos will load quicker.

Another stipulation could be that a small summary of the content and reason for the photo has to be added to the image posting. For more advanced photographers they could potentially add more info.

I guess what I am saying is a bit of uniformity when you are posting images might work better, it works in like the buy and let sections of the forum. You could also add the level of critque you want. (i know you have this option on Deviant art) So, you could write "postive critque only, or Im a bit senstive or new so please take it easy, or the opposite end, let me have it!)

I think that if the photos are very obviously ameatur then it is only professional courtesy to respect that photographers level of talent and encourage it rather than stamp on it. I would have been into photography a lot sooner if I wasn't told by a press photographer that I was wasting my time when I was 14 years old.

We all had to start somewhere.

dull

Post -> Sift -> Digest -> Practice -> Evolve

Excellent - short and to the point - and isn't the last point the most important one!

So - who's up for a photo meet at the walled garden? Is it big enough to take us all? As far as I know we have nothing else planned for this month. If we post our pics (or some of them anyway) afterwards we can all have a chance to shred - oops critique - each other's work - maybe even learn something!

Next meet walled garden? Sounds good to me.
25th?

I'll start a thread.... :D

EDIT:
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4879712

Can you not restrict the size of the photo that is posted? It is very easy on photobucket to resize the image to make it suitable for the forum. That way at least the photos will load quicker.

dull

Dull,

That was part of the software before we upgraded, now it's disappeared. I've not raised it with Geoff, because my worry is, if they notice and can't fix it - they might take the feature away :(

I do agree with you re: moderation though. We don't seem to have many of the moderation team for this group check in regularly, which is a shame. There isn't any guidance as to what this forum should be - and perhaps that would help.:)

It's in the Welcome to the Group sticky thread that was written in blood on parchment by the group leaders that started this forum all those years ago :) I've put parts of it below and marked some parts in Bold

===

Welcome to everyone with an interest on photography! The aim of this group is to provide a resource for members of Sheffield Forum to get together and discuss all aspects of photography. The Group Leaders are (in no other order than alphabetical!) *_ash_*, Grissom and rich951, so please PM one of us with any questions, comments or suggestions.

You're likely to find all sorts of posts ranging from buying advice, "how-to" questions, techniques (from all levels) to just "have a look at my photos". As time goes on, we're hoping to have a lot of common questions answered in a sticky FAQ post, so please check there before asking.

There are likely to be meetings, shoots, exhibitions etc organised from time to time. If anyone has any good ideas, please act on them! The role of the Group Leaders is primarily to look after this forum rather than to get involved in the real world, although hopefully you'll see us there too!

Please don't feel you have to be a professional photographer to post on here, and please don't be too hostile to any photo newcomers, keep that criticism constructive

===

I'm still around so you can always PM me for things and don't forget the forum mods have a "helpdesk" that you can allegedly contact them on :P

But there are also a good number of admirable photographers who don't seem to post any more. I just hope we haven't driven them away.

They could well be on a Beach in some sun-kissed part of the world snapping away at models whilst munching Caviar. Or taking pics of smelly dogs in a backstreet in Broomhill :P

When giving feedback its good to start with the positive aspects first, so you like the subject of the photo blah blah blah... but what if you cropped it like this or coloured it like that.

If you put yourself in Fox's shoes and then read some of the responses to his thread and you will see what i can see and maybe understand how the guy feels.

Not sure why, but I always thought Fox was female. Oops :P

Not sure why, but I always thought Fox was female. Oops :P

Somebody feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Fox is female...

Perhaps the problem is the non-allowing of images in other threads, meaning to add a photo it HAS to go in here even if the subject is not specifically the photo itself.

But then, if I want photography I go to a dedicated photography forum rather than sheffield forum