there seems to be another case somewhere around the world every week (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4636875.stm)

it is utter madness. Can the church not control its priests? Does abstinance turn you into a molestor?

So, if someone working for, oh, I don't know, British Telecom was to be proven to be a paedophile would you be saying that BT can't control it's workers?

Admittedly being a priest is a calling and vocation rather than a job, but they are still individuals - even if they are committed to a very paternalistic organisation.

And there are more non-celibate paedophiles as there are people who abstain from sex and molest people.

People working in the Church or in caring professions have access to people who may be vulnerable to abuse, and so abusers in these professions are particularly unpleasant because of the breach of trust. But the comment about 'another case somewhere around the world each week' does seem to ignore the fact that there are probably numerous cases of abuse every day NOT involving people from the Church.

Joe

PS - I'm Anglican, not regular Church attender, if that has a bearing.

Joe

yes but there seems to be story after story about the priesthood and this happning.

Considering what faith depends on and the teachings of the Church it seems a bit rich (along with the fact that the Church has pointedly ignored this for years and just moved priests around when people complained)

Originally posted by robbie
yes but there seems to be story after story about the priesthood and this happning.
Well this is the first genuine story about priests molesting children I've seen reported in years, not weeks - everything else I've heard is hearsay, rumour or fabrication.

I wonder just how many people either make up stories or loudly repeat the ones they hear, simply because they hate Catholics and WANT to see their names dragged through the mud.

the Church settled out of court a while back and there have been huge pay outs in the States

Originally posted by JoePritchard
So, if someone working for, oh, I don't know, British Telecom was to be proven to be a paedophile would you be saying that BT can't control it's workers?

Admittedly being a priest is a calling and vocation rather than a job, but they are still individuals - even if they are committed to a very paternalistic organisation.


Thats an interesting point Joe - do church workers have a duty of care in the same way as teachers? Or are they simply church employees? While i cant imagine BT being taken to court in a case like this, I could imagine that a local education authority might.

Some of the other cases that have come to light (i can remember at least one in the UK, and another biggie in america (boston?) have hinged on the fact that the church heirarchy were aware of the offences and simply move the priest in question to another diocese - I would say in those cases there definitely is a case against the church.

Originally posted by Edd
Thats an interesting point Joe - do church workers have a duty of care in the same way as teachers? Or are they simply church employees? While i cant imagine BT being taken to court in a case like this, I could imagine that a local education authority might.

Some of the other cases that have come to light (i can remember at least one in the UK, and another biggie in america (boston?) have hinged on the fact that the church heirarchy were aware of the offences and simply move the priest in question to another diocese - I would say in those cases there definitely is a case against the church.

Hi Edd,

Hadn't even thought about a formal duty of care, actually - more a breach of trust. You're right, though, about the church hierarchies moving people around - that is something against the individuals within the organisation of the church unless it can be proven it was official policy within the Church.

I'd argue that if you could say that individuals made the decision to cover up people's misdeeds then you can hang individuals out to dry more easily than a whole organisation. It's important for people to work out what they're trying to do. If you want to stop children being molested then you want to 'take out' the people concerned and the people who shield them as quickly as possible. That's probably best done by going after individuals. If you go after an organisation like the Church then it could bog down in legal fights for years.

Joe

Originally posted by robbie
yes but there seems to be story after story about the priesthood and this happning.

Considering what faith depends on and the teachings of the Church it seems a bit rich (along with the fact that the Church has pointedly ignored this for years and just moved priests around when people complained)

I think it more to do with sensationalism with the media that this profession is picked up on more due to the fact everyone expects this is the last place where such a thing can happen due to higher trusts involved.

If catholics want to improve their image, why don't they give all the kiddie-fiddling jobs to nuns instead of priests? There would be far fewer complaints from teenage schoolboys if they were being p***ed off by a nun instead of being poked up the bum by some middle aged bloke.

(That's the star letter in the latest Viz Comic BTW);)

Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees!

ANY form of child abuse is unpalatable and beyond Joe Average's comprehension. The fact that someone in whom an awful lot of trust has been placed has committed the crime makes is worse...or does it?

Tabloid Sensationalism.

The individual committed the crime, not the body under whom he/she is represented. The church might try to 'protect' the offender because to 'out' him/her would be seen as being un-Christian. That is admittedly, a very hard pill to swallow.

But there are thousands of people involved in the Church just as there are millions of every day people going about their every day business. A tiny, tiny, tiny, fraction - for some reason - abuse their trust but what is really important is that, as I said earlier, ANY form of child abuse is well, disgusting.

You cannot blame the Catholic faith, en masse for these few miscreants.

Originally posted by JoePritchard
So, if someone working for, oh, I don't know, British Telecom was to be proven to be a paedophile would you be saying that BT can't control it's workers?

Admittedly being a priest is a calling and vocation rather than a job, but they are still individuals - even if they are committed to a very paternalistic organisation.

And there are more non-celibate paedophiles as there are people who abstain from sex and molest people...
Joe

Joe, the Catholic Church is a crucible for this sort of thing.

Paedophiles seek out ways of getting close to youngsters. The Catholic Church has (until very recently) provided this opportunity in abundance with very little checks or ongoing monitoring. It has also skewered normal male sexual behaviour by insisting on the appearance of celibacy. It has also (until recently) dismissed, ignored and covered up claims of abuse from young Catholics. It also perpetuates a climate of extreme deference towards it's hierarchy (Infallibility???)

BT have a terrible call centre in Rhyl.

God seems to favour paedophiles but doesn't much care for Gays or Women.

Originally posted by Bloomdido
God seems to favour paedophiles but doesn't much care for Gays or Women.

Should that be 'The Catholic God'?

The Christian God perhaps. I always associate 'Catholic' with 'Guilt' and feel so sorry for anyone brought up in the faith.

Originally posted by Bloomdido
I always associate 'Catholic' with 'Guilt' and feel so sorry for anyone brought up in the faith.

So do I!

'Catholic Guilt' is control (In my opinion).

The great thing is, as a Catholic, if you eventually came to the same conclusion; i.e 'Catholic Guilt' is control: You would feel so guilty about thinking it in the first place, you would have to go straight to confession to ask a priest for help.

The guilt you would be encouraged to suffer for thinking such a thing in the first place would ensure that you would never think such guilt inducing thoughts again.

Simple!

And it worked for centuries and is still working to this day. Why can't people see it for what it is?

I don't know.

I don't believe it, I am cynical about it.

I understand that multiple millions of people today on Earth love their Catholic Faith and would be upset by what I've just said in my previous posts.

I would not want to self-censor my thoughts on the Catholic Church.

(That's what we have mods for;) ).

However, I do not want to fall into what could be considered an abusive tirade against the Catholic Faith. Simply for the sake of 'good form'.

A few incidents come to mind. - - Not all abuse cases are attributable to the Catholic Church. There have always been jokes and semi-serious warnings about vicars - scout masters - choir masters - even school teachers. The majority of the latest Scandals have been related to children. Their trust and innocence, unfortunately make them targets for the predators.
The predators seem to seek out the professions that would give them "Access".
It is not only the children who suffer, and the abuse is not always sexual.
The real thing, is that "the word catholic, means Universal" they have perpetrated the crimes and cover ups world wide.
Preying on the poor and the ignorant, and covering the accusations as they were voiced.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees!

ANY form of child abuse is unpalatable and beyond Joe Average's comprehension. The fact that someone in whom an awful lot of trust has been placed has committed the crime makes is worse...or does it?

Tabloid Sensationalism.

The individual committed the crime, not the body under whom he/she is represented. The church might try to 'protect' the offender because to 'out' him/her would be seen as being un-Christian. That is admittedly, a very hard pill to swallow.

But there are thousands of people involved in the Church just as there are millions of every day people going about their every day business. A tiny, tiny, tiny, fraction - for some reason - abuse their trust but what is really important is that, as I said earlier, ANY form of child abuse is well, disgusting.

You cannot blame the Catholic faith, en masse for these few miscreants.

but I can blame the Catholic Church in America for actively turning a blind eye to complaints and the behavior of some priests/bishops. Including moving those who had allegations against them to new areas instead of investigating.

They covered up these incidents in order to prevent the chuch receiving bad publicity.

here's and example of how wide spread it is look here and search back through reuters (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticleSearch.aspx?storyID=203722+30-Jun-2005+RTRS&srch=catholic+church)