hi can anyone please give me advice what they think i should do....it's a sensitive situation and i am tore about what to do......i'm really passionate about what i do and get very attached to my customers pets......the problem is about a bichon he is over 15 yrs old,basically he can hardly stand anymore,smells of pee so having problems there,just existing without much of a life......i'm desperate to say something cos it's just not fair on him,but i also know how they feel,iv'e lost many pets over the years.......i feel needs to be pts but is it my place to say anything,or are they waiting for that push from someone cos they don't want to make that decision,help i'm so torn,and it's really upsetting me.:help:

Upset or not its not your place to post about it on a public forum and i think its very unprofessional of you. How do you know this person doesnt read the forum? If my groomer had posted anything about my dog on here i would be absolutely fuming-id expect you to have some level of discretion. This should have been taken up directly with the owner-not you posting somebody elses business on here.

this was not done to offend anyone at all, as pet lovers was just asking for opinions as i'm concerned about the dog,nothing more nothing less,how would anyone ever know who's dog it is.......maybe i shouldn't have put anything on here my mistake,don't forget owners see their animals every day groomers don't so we notice the decline a lot more......as i said before thinking of the dog.....

you can post what you like on here and say what you like to an extent and as for the dog some owners love there pets they keep them going to the bitter end which isnt very wise in some cases iknow its harsh but ifits really suffering you should say something drop a hint whether they listen are not different story they might be just to stuck on the dog to just letit carry on wunt it be good if dogs could talk

Upset or not its not your place to post about it on a public forum and i think its very unprofessional of you. How do you know this person doesnt read the forum? If my groomer had posted anything about my dog on here i would be absolutely fuming-id expect you to have some level of discretion. This should have been taken up directly with the owner-not you posting somebody elses business on here.

Thats a bit harsh in`t it?
She hasn`t identified anyone and has only come on asking for advice on what she should do as she`s getting upset about it!
Anyway hogdepig, we all know how hard it is when your pet gets to the age when they may no longer be having a good quality of life. The decision on what is best for the dog is a very hard one to make. I know when our sam was getting on, I kept putting it off and putting it off. Until it gets to the point where you have to take them.
If it was me, I`d try getting into a friendly conversation with the owner, maybe focusing on his age and problems etc.
Try not to get upset about it.

Thats a bit harsh in`t it?
She hasn`t identified anyone and has only come on asking for advice on what she should do as she`s getting upset about it!
Anyway hogdepig, we all know how hard it is when your pet gets to the age when they may no longer be having a good quality of life. The decision on what is best for the dog is a very hard one to make. I know when our sam was getting on, I kept putting it off and putting it off. Until it gets to the point where you have to take them.
If it was me, I`d try getting into a friendly conversation with the owner, maybe focusing on his age and problems etc.
Try not to get upset about it.

OP maybe upset about it but not half as upset as the owner of this dog be would if they saw someone discussing if their dog should be pts or not. No they havent identified the owner, but the owner would prob recognise themselves if reading this. Im sorry if you think im harsh but i think this should be a private matter, and cant help but see this from how i would feel if this was my dog.
Hodgepig-i do realise your heart is in the right place.

The owner/s obviously care for this dog or they wouldn't go to the expense of having it groomed but if the dog smells of urine why, as a groomer don't you bathe the dog.

obviously the owners cares for the dog thats why they don't want to let him go,of course he's bathed when he comes for his visit,he gets well pampered,i collect him from owners and he just does his wee where ever,not nice,but as op has said if only he could talk. what is the cut off line when an owner keeps the dog going no matter what, i'm sorry but that is when the owner is been selfish and putting themself before the needs of the dog/cat. when they are suffering surely they can see that. I could rant on here all day about how some people don't groom their pets which is cruel in itself,but thats another issue,equally there are people who are fantstic no knots at all...i just don't think it's fair on him.....

the way i see it is if the dog is still getting up and eating it still has the will to live. most animal's will just stop when they have had enough. some old ladie's smell of pee an do nothing but complain about the ache's an pains of old age but we dont put them to sleep.

Having lost my much-loved old dog a short while ago, I know that it is extremely hard to accept that their "time" has come. It is incredibly hard to say "Yes, it's time to take him to be PTS!"

If the dog is still happy, and alert, and, very importantly, is not having any skin problems with the incontinence, then we, as outsiders can't insist that he's PTS because he's "become a bit feeble". We all have creaky old bones some days... (goodness knows I felt about Ninety this weekend, with the damp seeping into my joints) It has to be the owners' decision.

Yes, I do believe there''s a huge difference between quality of life and quantityof life, and my old dog's mental capacities' deterioration made me say "It's time." I still miss him dreadfully, but I knew it had to be done.

To be fair, you posted that the dog was 15, a bichon frise and goes to you to be groomed... I think I'd recognise myself if it were me...

However - from another point of view, I see where you're coming from and it's very hard - perhaps it would be better just to ask how the dog's doing in general, how they are - he may be very different at home than when he's with you remember and as for peeing everywhere...

Eddy is 14 and woke up too late to warn me the other day, peed in my shop - thankfully Helenasq and her family were here and they quickly lifted the dog beds off the floor to stop them getting wet!

Takara was only 2 when she became incontinent... She's now nearly 4 and is on medication but sometimes still leaks and ends up with a little urine stain... should she be put to sleep??

There are many, many factors involved in what constitutes a quality of life and sometimes, as the groomer you don't see the full story - similarly, my vet feels Eddy's struggling but I see him all day every day and he really isn't! (Not rose tinted glasses, it's the truth - if he can jump onto your knee in one swift movement and bounce around with Takara, he aint suffering!)

. I could rant on here all day about how some people don't groom their pets which is cruel in itself

why?one of my dog i dont groom she has very very shprt fur and nop need to but she does get bathed

The grooming comment was reference the animals that need it,ie long haired ones that need doing regulary so they don't matt/knot up. The short haired ones don't take as much looking after for obvious reasons. The wee isn't an issue at all it happens to many for different reasons,the fact is he can't even stand without falling over,how can that be right? The owners are old and don't even live in sheffield so i doubt they will see it on here...

I think it's all down to quality of life really, I know you said he falls when he stands is that all the time or just a bit doddery on the old pins? does he seem distressed about the weeing? does he still enjoy life...a short walk, or dinner or a cuddle all of those things are what makes an animal happy in my opinion, does he look happy?

I think if you truly believe that he is no longer happy and is suffering then maybe approach it gently, ask how old he is for instance and mention how you have seen him change since you knew him, just be gentle and steer the conversation, perhaps they might then see him anew and realise how bad he has really got.

I suppose otherwise there is not really a lot that you can do, people are sometimes slow to see that their pet has had enough for various reasons I suppose :sad:

I think you've had some very unfair comments Hodgepig! I can understand what you're saying and I've seen it a fair few times. Sometimes, people cannot see what is in front of them and that IS suffering. We all love our animals and it is easier to convince ourselves that they are still happy, because making the decision to end their life just seems like the ultimate betrayal and cruel in itself. The greatest kindness we can afford them is to end their suffering when it is obviously too much. I personally think that dragging out a suffering animal's life because I love it too dearly to let go, constitutes cruelty.

Therein lies the question of who decides. We know that vets are reluctant to advise an owner to put their animal to sleep, whether that's because of the sue society we live in, I don't know. Given your profession as a groomer, you are on an even sticker wicket I guess. Yes, you can see an animal suffering and it is heartbreaking but you aren't a vet and could get even more backlash if you suggested it.

It is upsetting for you I know, Gemima could give you some examples of several similar examples she has, where the owners actually KNOW they need to do the right thing, but they're dithering. That's cruelty!

If anyone is borderline on this issue, there is a saying that a day too early is better than a week too late. It's better to be strong and prevent suffering in my book!

Doesn't really answer your question whether to say anything Hodgepig, but I hope it has addressed some of the criticism you've received.

I wouldnt hesitate to have a pet put to sleep to ease suffering-i did it with my 15 year old cat, that is not my issue with the thread.

I wonder what your reaction would be if 1 day you were reading a thread, and realised your groomer was talking about 1 of pets, and like OP said-a sensitive issue. Thats my problem with it.

It would be a big kick up the backside for me Cuddlycats and one I'd be hugely grateful for. I would feel dreadful that no-one had dared point out the obvious to me and I suppose that is Hodgepig's dilemma. She could have waded in and told it like it is, but she's asking for help in how to deal with a delicate situation diplomatically.

What do you suggest she does to handle a sensitive situation differently?

Posting about it on a public forum is not sensitive. Maybe pmin other groomers for advice or getting advice from a vet-although if it was a friend or family of this person not a customer i wouldnt have an issue with this thread.
Its the professionalism of it i have a problem with-if i was a customer of op i wouldnt use them again as i wouldnt trust them.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Posting about it on a public forum is not sensitive. Maybe pmin other groomers for advice or getting advice from a vet-although if it was a friend or family of this person not a customer i wouldnt have an issue with this thread.
Its the professionalism of it i have a problem with-if i was a customer of op i wouldnt use them again as i wouldnt trust them.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I wouldn't have disagreed with you had there not been an issue of cruelty.

Seeking advice is not unprofessional, there have been no names mentioned, no area specified, it's a storm in a teacup created by you. I have to wonder about your vehemence Cuddlycats.

i did the softly softly approach on his last visit obviously with no affect,they tried to justify it by saying he's still eating so what he's not able to do anything else at all,he's even scraping his front paws trying to get out of the back door to go outside,cos he can't lift his legs properly any more........i would never dream of telling them he needs to be put to sleep that their choice not mine,i'm just saying in my professional opinion i don't think it's right,and no he's not happy,no tail wagging,can't see or hear need i go on.
enlighten me why am i been unprofessional no one will ever know who it's about,it takes a stronger person to do the nasty deed,no animal should have to suffer cos the owner can't bare to do it......we all know it will happen one day,if you can't handle making that decision why have a pet in the first place.

Right, this is gona be my last post on subject-i dont want to fall out with anyone.
Hodgepig-i hope you genuinely get this sorted. Like i said earlier, i know you heart is in right place, but that id have been more discreet.
As for what id do-id lie! Im prob gona get criticism for that. Id tell them you THINK you felt a lump, or he you THINK he needs his teeth descaling. Anything relatively small so you mention maybe a trip to vets is in order, then let the vet deal with it. The vet should address the issue if needed, and you have done all you can.

It would be a big kick up the backside for me Cuddlycats and one I'd be hugely grateful for. I would feel dreadful that no-one had dared point out the obvious to me and I suppose that is Hodgepig's dilemma. She could have waded in and told it like it is, but she's asking for help in how to deal with a delicate situation diplomatically.


I agree totally, maybe the owner needs that bit of a push!!

Could you ask them if he has been to the vets about all his problems or if they have got any advice and get onto the subject that way.
Maybe when they come to collect him you could stress that he seems more unwell that day and that you are worried that he may be suffering and lead them to find the answer.

It is a very difficult one but you may be the only other person who see's the dog other than the owners so i think you really do need to say something but i understand it is so difficult.

Good luck

Upset or not its not your place to post about it on a public forum and i think its very unprofessional of you. How do you know this person doesnt read the forum? If my groomer had posted anything about my dog on here i would be absolutely fuming-id expect you to have some level of discretion. This should have been taken up directly with the owner-not you posting somebody elses business on here.

oh my god who rattled your cage!!! thats not your opinion thats you having a go just for sake of it. you did not even ask for any elaboration of the subject. The poor dog is on his last legs. its so very sad to see an animal like that and the owners are selfish to not realise he needs some kind of help, either visiting a vet for advice or for him to be put down. either way the OP was ONLY ASKING FOR ADVICE. is that so wrong??

it would be extremely unprofessional of the OP to carry on taking money for grooming a very poorly dog and not caring about him. yoiu know "sod him just want my money". the OP OBVIUOSLY DOES CARE about him. which in my eyes shows high professionalism. some owners may be blind to things thro love to the animal that others away from them can see. a soft spoken word or hint could be just what they need.

I dont think lying would help, now that would be unprofessional cuddlycats dont you think.

oh my god who rattled your cage!!! thats not your opinion thats you having a go just for sake of it. you did not even ask for any elaboration of the subject. The poor dog is on his last legs. its so very sad to see an animal like that and the owners are selfish to not realise he needs some kind of help, either visiting a vet for advice or for him to be put down. either way the OP was ONLY ASKING FOR ADVICE. is that so wrong??

it would be extremely unprofessional of the OP to carry on taking money for grooming a very poorly dog and not caring about him. yoiu know "sod him just want my money". the OP OBVIUOSLY DOES CARE about him. which in my eyes shows high professionalism. some owners may be blind to things thro love to the animal that others away from them can see. a soft spoken word or hint could be just what they need.

I dont think lying would help, now that would be unprofessional cuddlycats dont you think.

You may think Cuddlycats post was a little harsh, however your harsh response back doesnt make you any better im afriad :rolleyes:

I have to slightly agree with cuddlycats (perhaps her post could have been put a little sweeter) BUT she has a point, asking for advice is one thing, however I think she would have been best leaving the breed of the dog out of the post to ensure her client remains totally anon, For all the people having a go at cuddlycats, you need to remember asking for advice is fine however stating the breed of the dog narrows down very much which client it is, and that part of her post is unprofessional (not the rest of the post).

Its perhaps a case that they do know but its a harsh reality and it does not make them selfish fishpole, it only makes them selfish if this has been going on for a long period of time, It could be that they are under the vets observation. I dont think people should be stating things like 'selfish etc....when they dont know the full situation. There is too much on this forum of this as it is without the people who own this dog reading this thread. Its a hard decision to make.

I wouldn't have disagreed with you had there not been an issue of cruelty.

Seeking advice is not unprofessional, there have been no names mentioned, no area specified, it's a storm in a teacup created by you. I have to wonder about your vehemence Cuddlycats.

Your attitude leaves alot to be desired, It is not a storm in a teacup at all, it is a senstive subject. By stating the breed and age it does narrow it down alot actually. Cuddlycats main point I think is not the asking for advice part its the details that have been included, its not a most popular breed and with the age it wouldnt take einstien to work out if you were the owner or not. Lets leave the direct attitude fishpole for something more constructive dont ya think!

maybe I was loopylass, but I was outraged at her having a go for someone who was only asking for advice. as the op stated, the owners did not lived in sheffield so would have no desire for this forum. she was out of order for the way she went off. I maintain my stand in my thread. I never knew asking for advice was such a bad thing.

the breed of dog matters not as I would imagine there is more than 1 dog in a breed and therefore could be directed at any number of people the op has as customers.

I do think that asking for some kind of help in reference to such a sad and delicate situation was a good thing. it gets all sorts of responses and such helps op handle the matter. having a go at someone who is only trying to help is hardly helping is it.

I would happily let my dog go to OP and would glady take any advice from as the profession this person is in they must have great wealth of knowledge to offer. not saying they expert but they could be!

ever heard a problem shared is a problem halved. well I go with that and would like to think others would do the same, sad world if we all like cuddlycats and loopylass

maybe I was loopylass, but I was outraged at her having a go for someone who was only asking for advice. as the op stated, the owners did not lived in sheffield so would have no desire for this forum. she was out of order for the way she went off. I maintain my stand in my thread. I never knew asking for advice was such a bad thing.

the breed of dog matters not as I would imagine there is more than 1 dog in a breed and therefore could be directed at any number of people the op has as customers.

I do think that asking for some kind of help in reference to such a sad and delicate situation was a good thing. it gets all sorts of responses and such helps op handle the matter. having a go at someone who is only trying to help is hardly helping is it.

I would happily let my dog go to OP and would glady take any advice from as the profession this person is in they must have great wealth of knowledge to offer. not saying they expert but they could be!

ever heard a problem shared is a problem halved. well I go with that and would like to think others would do the same, sad world if we all like cuddlycats and loopylass

The last bit of your post is a direct insult to myself and cuddlycats and not something which i believe this forum supports. And if you actualy take the time to read my post I have said there is nothing wrong with asking for help (which makes your point invalid) all I have said is it is unprofessional to included the age and breed). Perhaps reading my post again and then apologising would be the best thing for you to do at this stage. As I am sure it would not be a sad world if everyone was like me and though 'yes its ok to ask for advice but leave the details out' :rolleyes: And regarding whether they live in Sheffield or not it is irrelevant, anyone can access the sheffield forum.

Nice to meet you olliemol, i dont believe ive had the pleasure before :)

aah you know my opinion your opinion, you say tomarto, I say tomayto. so it seems we differ. no insults were made only stated sad world if we all alike. no insults intend. no apologies necessary. and yes anyone can access the forum but not everyone does really do they.

but we all getting off main point. scanty details help no one. sometimes you have to put more details to get right advice.

oh and nice to meet you cuddlycats, no dont think we had pleasure before.

I for one hope that the OP has a lighter mind now with all the points made. a wide choice to muse over. and hopefully can make some judgement regarding the poor wee dog.

When i first asked for advice i kept it short and brief,obviously only put in the basic info,cos there is more to the story which is why it makes the situation even more sad. When i wrote it was very upset at how bad he was from the last visit,looking back maybe i should not of put the breed it wasn't something i was really thinking about at the time,the state of him was what i was thinking about to be honest,as previously stated how anyone on here can identify who it is i really don't know. For quite a while now given them hints etc hoping they would pick up on how bad he now is but to no avail thats why i ended up on here for help.........i will apologise for putting his breed but i will not apologise for thinking that it's cruel,and that they are making him suffer.......

So Olliemol im wrong by thinking she shouldnt have put the breed and age in am i????Unfortunately, it is unprofessional. The rest of her post was fine as I said.

Lets hope the owners dont read this and make a formal complaint, because they could with the breed and age being disclosed.

However yes like I have said Hodgepig the rest of your post for advice is totaly fine and I hope whatever the decision they make the right one for the dog.

I think hodgepig right in OP. was worried about the dog. I am no judge or jury, I am merely stating my opinion. we all have one. you have yours I have mine. why you getting all het up loopylass, you missing wider picture by miles by getting het up. wider picture is there is a dog who is suffering and who's owners may be taking it hard trying to come to terms with the enivetable (wrong spelling). OP just worried and that is heartfelt to hear. is extremely hard to find the right words to say to the owners, who could not have noticed, or dont think its as bad as it is, or just to sad to face it. our disagreements blocking the thread. I would hate to have to go through this with my dog and can only sympathise with this situation.

I hope OP can help the owners with this. would imagine if they so worried and upset over it then no doubt in my mind they will. now Im now off as I dont want to be on this thread when its all mixed up with people disagreeing with others. bigger picture here. very sad bigger picture, happy trolling

I think hodgepig right in OP. was worried about the dog. I am no judge or jury, I am merely stating my opinion. we all have one. you have yours I have mine. why you getting all het up loopylass, you missing wider picture by miles by getting het up. wider picture is there is a dog who is suffering and who's owners may be taking it hard trying to come to terms with the enivetable (wrong spelling). OP just worried and that is heartfelt to hear. is extremely hard to find the right words to say to the owners, who could not have noticed, or dont think its as bad as it is, or just to sad to face it. our disagreements blocking the thread. I would hate to have to go through this with my dog and can only sympathise with this situation.

I hope OP can help the owners with this. would imagine if they so worried and upset over it then no doubt in my mind they will. now Im now off as I dont want to be on this thread when its all mixed up with people disagreeing with others. bigger picture here. very sad bigger picture, happy trolling

Trolling? Your getting patheitic. I was stating a point at the beginning when every1 ganged up on Cuddlycats, you werent seeing the picture then. So do not call me a troll, you have no right. Goodybe.

So Olliemol im wrong by thinking she shouldnt have put the breed and age in am i????Unfortunately, it is unprofessional. The rest of her post was fine as I said.

Lets hope the owners dont read this and make a formal complaint, because they could with the breed and age being disclosed.


I am a groomer and like all groomers, we all groom old Bichons and old Cockers and old Labradors, need I go on, there is absolutely no way that the owner can identify the dog or the groomer from the OP... so back on topic. Hodgepig I do sympathise with your post, it is a situation I have found myself in many times. Vets will not advise owners to pts, which is very sad, as many animals suffer long miserable lives because of it.

I really dont know what to suggest and I dont know the answer chuck.

Your attitude leaves alot to be desired, It is not a storm in a teacup at all, it is a senstive subject. By stating the breed and age it does narrow it down alot actually. Cuddlycats main point I think is not the asking for advice part its the details that have been included, its not a most popular breed and with the age it wouldnt take einstien to work out if you were the owner or not. Lets leave the direct attitude fishpole for something more constructive dont ya think!

If you read back Looopylass, you'll see that I made several references to the delicate position Hodgepig is in. That's exactly why I think it is unfair to say she has been unprofessional for seeking opinion on whether to speak out or not.

The storm in a teacup comment was actually in reference to the suggestion that the owner is "surely" going to recognise their dog from the very ambiguous details given. Whilst we don't actually know where the dog lives, people have assumed, because the post is on Sheffield Forum, that it must be here. If that assumption were right, there is a population of approximately half a million living in the City. In my opinion, it is rather short-sighted to imagine that there could only be ONE dog that fits the sketchy description posted.

Gemima's post also demonstrates that this is not an uncommon situation. If someone recognises their own similar situation by virtue of this thread, I don't think that will have been a bad thing from any dog's perspective, so it may have been constructive in that respect.

Personally, I think Hodgepig is in a very tough position. If she continues to groom the dog, she has to continually witness it's sad demise but if she refused, to save herself the upset, the dog would more than likely suffer further because of the problems of matting and the odour that she mentioned. I don't think she needed berating for being concerned over a dog's welfare and it would worry me more that a groomer didn't care.

Hodgepig, has this thread served it's purpose?

I am very proud of what i do..........Im conscientious,compassionate,caring,
passionate,and show empathy to my customers and their pets if that isn't professional i don't know what is.To be unprofessional would be to lie,and slag off other groomers which i would never do.To those who have replied with comments relevant to the original post thankyou for offering advice,to those who chose to have a go thanks aswell you've opened my eyes to how narrow minded some people can be.The decision is theirs which obviously won't happen in the near future so i can only hope he is taken in his sleep.....

At this juncture I would like to point out that there are two members posting on the group with very similar user names please be careful not to confuse them, as they are not the same person, there is loopylass and looopylass subtle difference. :rolleyes:

I also think that this might be a good time to bring this thread to a close now.
I am sure that the OP will handle things in a sensitive, dignified and proper way, and hope that the dog will soon find peace :sad: