What's Greenhill, S8 like? [Archive]

Sara

30-06-2005, 11:19

Originally posted by Toronto
HiYa Mr_Chris and T020 - thanks so much for your replies. It gives me a better idea and understanding as to what T020 meant by "rough"
Well I am still looking forward to seeing Lowedges, Sheffield and checking out the sights and sounds. I have heard Norton is a lovely part of S8. Have not been there yet, this will be my first visit but am still looking only forward. Thanks again for your time :)
PS - What does "ASBO" mean Mr_Chris...?

Norton is lovely, we live there. We are currently in the process of moving house and we are trying to stay in either Norton, Norton Lees, Greenhill or Beauchief, all lovely places.

Lowedges is a little rough around the edges - read back issues of The Star about how the problems there are starting to affect Greenhill - nowhere is immune to yobs, no matter how nice or rough. An ASBO is an AntiSocial Behaviour Order - I assume you are not British as these things have been dominating our media for some while now. Its true that Lowedges does feature quite regularly on these commercial channel TV cop/criminal car chase programmes, but I'm sure there are lots of nice decent people living there too.

t020

30-06-2005, 11:20

Originally posted by Sara
but I'm sure there are lots of nice decent people living there too.

Which of course no one ever suggested wasn't the case.

Sara

30-06-2005, 11:24

Originally posted by t020
Which of course no one ever suggested wasn't the case.
I know but I was racking my brains to find something positive to say about Lowedges

kanga

01-07-2005, 13:28

I've lived in Greenhill for all but four years of my life, and I think it's always been a nice place to live. It is different now to how it used to be when I was growing up, but I guess that's the same in most places - things move on...!

As people have mentioned, there are shops, a couple of pubs, a library, an Indian takeaway, a pizza takeaway and a Chinese restaurant which has just opened up.

I'm really happy living there and I don't think there are many other places in Sheffield that I'd want to move to (although I am, of course, ever so slightly biased!).

Shiesh

01-07-2005, 13:39

Originally posted by mr_chris
If you want somewhere rough to live, try Middlesbrough! I did....

:o hey don't bring Middlesbrough into it....every town and city has it's 'undesirable areas' - I am proud to be a Boro girl and disagree with this comment entirely!!

:rant:

t020

03-07-2005, 17:05

Another case in point for Lowedges - http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47456

NicolaE

03-07-2005, 18:24

I've worked in Greenhill library and 99% of the customers are perfectly nice people, I also know people who live on Lowedges and it's getting better then it was but theres still a drugs problem. However, as long as you mind your own buisness you should be fine. The kids from Low Edges often come down to Greenhill if theres police about etc and congregate around the library and the shops, and they can be very intimidating, especially to the older people who use the library. I know that one old lady was mugged behind the library, but I haven't seen any kids there for a while. I live in Beauchief and I'd say that the areas of Beauchief and Greenhill are really nice, and as someone else has said, wherever you live there will be kids hanging around. In other parts of Sheffield there are far worse estates and often these are a lot bigger then Low Edges. The majority of S8 is nice, quiet and safe. Oh, and the schools are very good round here too!

Seb27

06-07-2005, 21:03

Lived in Greenhill for the last 3 years. It's a nice area, near to supermarkets, near to the beautiful countryside etc.

I don't have any kids but I'v heard that Greenhill Primary is very good.

As for the proximity to the lowedges, this really isn't a problem. I have only ever come across decent people. Like any area there is always going to be an element of " undesireables" but don't let this put you off.

The only grumble that I have is that it can sometimes take almost an hour to get home on the bus at rushhour.

ceevee

11-07-2005, 18:27

Hi all,
This is my first posting on here so please don't FLAME me for this, but I have a house for sale just being finished (renovated) in the nicer part of Greenhill if anyone was interested.

I'll not say any more as I don't want to appear like one of those idiots who just joins a forum to sell something.

Feel free to get in touch.
Craig
spreadercraig@hotmail.com

DeViL_WoMaN

21-08-2005, 18:19

May I just comment after reading this thread that I personally didn't find Lowedges rough when I lived there. I am not a typical stereotype that you would find on a council estate, I am educated to degree level, but that place we were offered in Lowedges at the time was the only place we could get.
I found it quite quiet, ok, there were occasionally gangs of kids hanging about the local shops, but me myslef being 23 years old am not involved in that sort of thing, and in my opinion, if your not involved in it then you don't take much notice in whats going on around you in that respect.(unless it's a massive fight, or riot, etc. lol!)
But, we have just been offered another place in Lowedges, and I would be willing to live there again as I found it a nice pleasent place to live.
Just out of interest, why do people think that Lowedges is rough and are there still ongoing problems on the estate?

Loll

t020

21-08-2005, 19:19

Crime figures, news reports, etc. Also, "roughness" is relative. In the context of Pitsmoor, Page Hall, Manor, etc, it's not rough. In the context of Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, etc, it's very rough. I always thought of Lowedges as being one of the less troubled council estates but peoples' postings on this forum helped to dim that view a bit.

Incidentally, your post here http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=458261#post458261 doesn't help the cause ("Worst thing: The potheads that lived opposite, with fecking ****** up kids that kept smashing windows")

grinboy

21-08-2005, 19:26

I grew up in Greenhill and it is a very nice place to live (mum and dad still live there). I now live in Low Edges and contrary to what seems to be popular belief about Low Edges residents, I am neither a drug misuser or a thug. I am educated, a professional, and, despite all my wishes not to be, (personal politics), middle class by definition. A generally easy chap you could say.

Its true, there are some problems with drug misuse, and crime in Low Edges, but it seems to me that it only finds you if you mix in those circles. My neighbours are thoroughly lovely! (and not drug dealers, burglers, or ASBO candidates).

I'd have to agree with a previous post though. It does seem split between the (nicer) fire station end and the (not quite as nice) dual carriageway end.

I'd recommend anyone to come and live in Greenhill. Don't let the Low Edges bashers put you off!

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 20:01

Originally posted by London Code - :)
Crime figures, news reports, etc. Also, "roughness" is relative. In the context of Pitsmoor, Page Hall, Manor, etc, it's not rough. In the context of Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, etc, it's very rough...

I presume your second point - RE: roughness, was under your new "rose tinted spectacle" style?

:D

t020

21-08-2005, 22:22

Originally posted by amhudson119
I presume your second point - RE: roughness, was under your new "rose tinted spectacle" style?

:D

Come again?

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 22:31

Originally posted by t020
Come again?

You said: "Roughness is relative, in the context of Page Hall etc it is not rough, and in the context of the affluent areas, it is".

Yet previously, and I'm pretty sure you made a reference to it in this thread - here: "I was only stating the facts coupled with my opinion, as was requested by the original poster.... unless of course there's a small print clause somewhere that I missed saying "rose tinted spectacled comments only please"? Rather than...".

That there was sarcasm in that the affluent areas were 'rough', and not-so-affluent areas weren't...

And when one looks through 'rose-tinted specs', they have to filter out the 'poor' opinions, and only give the good.

Apologies for the poorly written post.

Write back if it's virtually incomprehendable...

:)

t020

21-08-2005, 22:34

No..... I still don't understand a word you're saying.

My point was simple enough... Lowedges isn't the roughest estate in Sheffield but "roughness" is relative.

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 22:37

Originally posted by t020
No..... I still don't understand a word you're saying.

My point was simple enough... Lowedges isn't the roughest estate in Sheffield but "roughness" is relative.

I've just re-read your post - RE: ''roughness is relative" - in the sense of S11 etc, it is very relative - almost to the point of nonexistance, whereas Page Hall etc, the relativeness is not so extreme.

:loopy:

t020

21-08-2005, 22:39

Originally posted by amhudson119
I've just re-read your post - RE: ''roughness is relative" - in the sense of S11 etc, it is very relative - almost to the point of nonexistance, whereas Page Hall etc, the relativeness is not so extreme.

:loopy:

"Also, "roughness" is relative. In the context of Pitsmoor, Page Hall, Manor, etc, it's not rough. In the context of Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, etc, it's very rough. "

Hence the use of *very* in the second comparison. I really don't see what you're trying to get at here at all. It's easy enough to understand?

To spell it out even clearer..... compared to Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, etc, Lowedges is very rough. Compared to Pitsmoor, Page Hall, Manor, etc, Lowedges isn't that rough. Comprendé?

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 22:41

Originally posted by t020
"Also, "roughness" is relative. In the context of Pitsmoor, Page Hall, Manor, etc, it's not rough. In the context of Fulwood, Ecclesall, Dore, etc, it's very rough. "

Hence the use of *very* in the second comparison. I really don't see what you're trying to get at here at all. It's easy enough to understand?

Yes, I saw your point, but added mine to clarify I understood yours.

t020

21-08-2005, 22:41

Originally posted by amhudson119
Yes, I saw your point, but added mine to clarify I understood yours.

But in doing so confused everyone. :clap: :D

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 22:43

Originally posted by t020
But in doing so confused everyone. :clap: :D

Did you have to do that edit to look as if you were speaking to a cretin? ;)

Verstehe?

t020

21-08-2005, 22:46

Originally posted by amhudson119
Did you have to do that edit to look as if you were speaking to a cretin? ;)

Verstehe?

:hihi: Edit? Which edit?! ;)

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 22:47

Originally posted by t020
:hihi: Edit? Which edit?! ;)

Red flashy screen time...

redrobbo

21-08-2005, 23:10

Well, not much seems to being posted that is going to help pinlock over his query about Greenhill?

I have several friends who live Greenhill (locally pronounced as 'Grennel'). The area is very nice, with lots of semis, though some of the roads are used as rat runs at peak travel times. Good links to major supermarkets (Morrisons at Woodseats; and Sainsburys and Tesco are only a little further afield). You are close to the edge of fine Derbyshire countryside, and the Peak District. Good links to the M1 southbound, via the Dronfield by-pass, Chesterfield inner relief road and Hasland by-pass.

The old part of Greenhill is a conservation area. Though small in size, it has great charm. It is always a pleasure to attend an annual Labour Party summer garden party in the old village, which has real character and charm.

You should check on Ofsted inspection reports for details of local schools. But there is always competition for places at certain local schools.

ToryCynic

21-08-2005, 23:15

Originally posted by redrobbo
Well, not much seems to being posted that is going to help pinlock over his query about Greenhill?

I have several friends who live Greenhill (locally pronounced as 'Grennel'). The area is very nice, with lots of semis, though some of the roads are used as rat runs at peak travel times. Good links to major supermarkets (Morrisons at Woodseats; and Sainsburys and Tesco are only a little further afield). You are close to the edge of fine Derbyshire countryside,
You should check on Ofsted inspection reports for details of local schools. But there is always competition for places at certain local schools.

Is it me, or is virtually all of Sheffield close to Derbyshire - apart from the Parkway end, which is miles away.

Are there any parts of Nottinghamshire that border SY?

SHarper

21-08-2005, 23:15

Greenhill?

Is that not too far away, beyond the city wall?

redrobbo

21-08-2005, 23:37

Originally posted by amhudson119
Is it me, or is virtually all of Sheffield close to Derbyshire - apart from the Parkway end, which is miles away.

Are there any parts of Nottinghamshire that border SY?

Derbyshire has borders with Sheffield, Barnsley and Rotherham (but not Doncaster). Indeed, parts of Sheffield used to be in Derbyshire, e.g., Beighton, Norton, Beauchief, until local government re-organisation a few decades ago.

Nottinghamshire, which has a long border with Derbyshire, also has borders with Rotherham (near Worksop) and Doncaster (but not Barnsley or Sheffield). Indeed, if you visit Mission, in Nottinghamshire, it is only accessible by driving from parts of Doncaster at either end of the same road! Now that is odd!

ToryCynic

22-08-2005, 10:45

Originally posted by redrobbo
Derbyshire has borders with Sheffield, Barnsley and Rotherham (but not Doncaster). Indeed, parts of Sheffield used to be in Derbyshire, e.g., Beighton, Norton, Beauchief, until local government re-organisation a few decades ago.

Nottinghamshire, which has a long border with Derbyshire, also has borders with Rotherham (near Worksop) and Doncaster (but not Barnsley or Sheffield). Indeed, if you visit Mission, in Nottinghamshire, it is only accessible by driving from parts of Doncaster at either end of the same road! Now that is odd!

Clear as mud - :)

shefflasfema

21-09-2005, 03:20

I have lived on Lowedges since I was one year old (24 years now) and I love the place. It has it's bad sides like all places and I am one of the first people to admit this, but I also am one of the first people to stick up for it too.

I have been trying to do some research into the history of Lowedges (in my spare time out of boredom and curiosity :hihi:) and hoping that in doing so I can give other people and myself a bigger picture and hopefully a better picture of what Lowedges was like from day one and why it is the place it is today.

I am new to this site, so unfortunately cant post a link to the page yet! But will return shortly when I can.

:rolleyes:

:help:

:confused:

:D

t020

21-09-2005, 12:14

Originally posted by shefflasfema
I have lived on Lowedges since I was one year old (24 years now) and I love the place. It has it's bad sides like all places and I am one of the first people to admit this, but I also am one of the first people to stick up for it too.

Then, from another thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47456 )

Originally posted by shefflasfema

I also agree, Lowedges is getting horrible. I also hate the idiots that think its sensible to ride moterbikes around the park at high speed when you walking your dog. Gurr.

:suspect:

tomtom

23-12-2005, 08:20

greenhill is a great place to live. Nice schools and genrally a nice area.

bigkev

15-01-2006, 19:23

there is nothing wrong with lowedges I lived on there from being 5 years old and didnt move until I was 26 years old. I go up there most weeks to see my old mates, I use to live on toppham road then moved on to atlantic road then down to gresley road. I then use to stop at a mates house in greenhill just up from the white hart pub, I did most of my drinking in the village and the white swan pub use to be my local as my father use to go in there every night he use to play the piano in there. greenhill is a good place to live and you are not faraway from bradway and holmesfield and on to the peak district. why does people slag lowedges off everytime I have been up there I hear people saying oh I wouldnt go up there not if you value your life my advice to them is go and live on lowedges and tell the local people that they are rough and see what happens they would just stand and laugh at you. so if you have seen a house in greenhill then go for it take know notice of them who says it is rough on the council estate called lowedges.

kat_1b

19-01-2006, 20:24

tatoo...f**k off back into your hole and stop abusing people for their opinions. What's the point having a forum if you slag people off for saying what they think, give it up and go elsewhere!!! The forum is better off without you.

mr chris

19-01-2006, 22:30

Originally posted by kat_1b
tatoo...f**k off back into your hole and stop abusing people for their opinions. What's the point having a forum if you slag people off for saying what they think, give it up and go elsewhere!!! The forum is better off without you.

I think he's long gone.... Apparently he *couldn't* say what he wanted to who he liked (he PM'd me to tell me he could...).

Hehehe...

redrobbo

19-01-2006, 23:21

Originally posted by t020
Then, from another thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47456 ) :suspect:

Norfolk Park........Netherthorpe.......Greenhill....... is there no end to t020's talent to malign areas with his beloved crime statistics, and links to adverse news articles and other threads?

Lots of posters have extolled the virtue of Greenhill on this thread. People who were born there, live there, visit the area, etc. Like other areas of the city, t020 has again revealed that he has no first hand experience of the locality. His views are of no help to anyone who genuinely seeks information about an area.

t020 omits to mention the lovely Greenhill conservation area - which lies in the south of the locality. t020 omits to mention the attractive leafy avenues. t020 omits to mention the proximity to shopping facilities, including nearby major supermarkets. t020 omits to mention the excellent local schools. t020 omits to mention the existence of a local library, takeaways, bus services, access to the nearby wonderful Derbyshire countryside, or anything of any consequence whatsover.

All t020 can do is resort to his standard and time-worn method of maligning an area by reference to its proximity to a council estate, in this case, Low Edges - which he describes as rough. t020 has told us nothing at all about Greenhill, except to get his facts wrong - Greenhill is not 50% council estate.

For someone who loves to quote facts, can t020 support his claim that "Half of it is council/ ex-council". Really? Greenhill is 50% council/ex council? Let's have your facts then t020.

t020

19-01-2006, 23:33

Originally posted by redrobbo
Norfolk Park........Netherthorpe.......Greenhill....... is there no end to t020's talent to malign areas with his beloved crime statistics, and links to adverse news articles and other threads?

Lots of posters have extolled the virtue of Greenhill on this thread. People who were born there, live there, visit the area, etc. Like other areas of the city, t020 has again revealed that he has no first hand experience of the locality. His views are of no help to anyone who genuinely seeks information about an area.

t020 omits to mention the lovely Greenhill conservation area - which lies in the south of the locality. t020 omits to mention the attractive leafy avenues. t020 omits to mention the proximity to shopping facilities, including nearby major supermarkets. t020 omits to mention the excellent local schools. t020 omits to mention the existence of a local library, takeaways, bus services, access to the nearby wonderful Derbyshire countryside, or anything of any consequence whatsover.

All t020 can do is resort to his standard and time-worn method of maligning an area by reference to its proximity to a council estate, in this case, Low Edges - which he describes as rough. t020 has told us nothing at all about Greenhill, except to get his facts wrong - Greenhill is not 50% council estate.

For someone who loves to quote facts, can t020 support his claim that "Half of it is council/ ex-council". Really? Greenhill is 50% council/ex council? Let's have your facts then t020.

No, look at the link that you quoted me posting. I was referring to Low Edges. As I've said before in this very thread, Greenhill has some nice parts and on the whole isn't a bad area at all. So redrobbo fails to read through the thread correctly and gets on his high horse over nothing.

Low Edges on the other hand is a different story, and yes, you can certainly add that to the list of areas I consider as being "bad". This is an opinion I'm entitled to, and I base it on a combination of:

- living in Sheffield for all 24 years of my life
- reading local newspapers
- watching local news programmes
- viewing local crime statistics
- reading/listening to the general consensus amongst other people (forum or otherwise)
- having seen just about every area in Sheffield at some point in time
- property values (generally indicative of desirability)

On this basis I am able to form what's known as an "opinion". This is an internet forum, where people exchange this truly unique phenomenon. I am entitled to express mine. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it (although the stats are on my side), and it may not fit in with any ideologies you hold. But I AM entitled to it, and quite frankly I'm fed up of having to justify it.

Mr_J_Bravo

19-01-2006, 23:38

Greenhill seems like a nice area.lots of amenities etc.The problem is the Loweges estate nearby harbouring a lot of petty criminals.There are some lovely people on the estate-as there are on all council estates that i have visited.These pleasant indivisuals are mainly the people who have lived on the estates for years.The problem is a minority of people either druggies etc who have moved on to the estate and need to fund their habit through crime or secondly kids who cant be bothered to get a job-or cant get one due to criminal records etc.They tend to 'pop over' into greenhill/Bradway etc and other more 'affluent areas' and commit crime there.Theres crime happening all over the city so wherever you move you wont be entirely free from crime

redrobbo

19-01-2006, 23:56

Originally posted by t020
No, look at the link that you quoted me posting. I was referring to Low Edges.

Well, I have now looked at the quote, and you were most certainly not referring to Low Edges t020.

In response to the thread title - What's Greenhill, S8 like?, you posted this reply.....

Originally posted by t020
Half of it is council/ ex-council and in close proximity to the Lowedges council estate (rough). The other half is more pleasant and is next to Beauchief (pretty nice).

You are quite clearly referring to Greenhill, and not Low Edges. You state it is 50% council and is in close proximity to Low Edges, plus the other half is next to Beauchief. Well, Low Edges certainly isn't next to Beauchief.

Stop wriggling out of this t020. You've got your facts wrong. Why are you denying it? Why can't you admit you got something wrong? Not even prepared to adjust your position just a little bit - you grudgingly did that on the Norfolk Park thread? Come on, even 24yr olds can admit getting things wrong. None of us are infallible. Just acknowledge you got your facts wrong, and apologise. There is no public humiliation in admitting you were wrong to describe Greenhill as being half council/ ex-council.

1Man&hisBMW

20-01-2006, 03:19

you can't be wrong if you are from Ecclesall. EVERYBODY knows that....! :rolleyes:

Don't forget the low crime, top schools and the wonderful tree lined streets means you simply cannot make a mistake! Im sure theres a statistic somewhere that says people in Ecclesall are less likely to make mistakes then, say those from Manor... and if not, some numpty will come up with the goods sooner or later :suspect:

kat_1b

20-01-2006, 12:24

what's so wrong about living in Ecclesall? I don't live there but it's a nice area? No need to dis people, because of the area they are from, that's as bad as pulling people down cos they are from a poorer area surely?

t020

20-01-2006, 20:07

Originally posted by redrobbo
Well, I have now looked at the quote, and you were most certainly not referring to Low Edges t020.

In response to the thread title - What's Greenhill, S8 like?, you posted this reply.....

Yes, but that isn't what you quoted. You quoted me linking to a thread about Low Edges. I think I made it pretty clear that it's as a result of Low Edges that some parts of Greenhill are less desirable.

Originally posted by redrobbo

Stop wriggling out of this t020. You've got your facts wrong. Why are you denying it? Why can't you admit you got something wrong? Not even prepared to adjust your position just a little bit - you grudgingly did that on the Norfolk Park thread? Come on, even 24yr olds can admit getting things wrong. None of us are infallible. Just acknowledge you got your facts wrong, and apologise. There is no public humiliation in admitting you were wrong to describe Greenhill as being half council/ ex-council.

What am I supposed to have got wrong? I think anyone with half a brain can work out that the "half of it is council/ex council" housing statement was a guesstimate and not an actual statement of fact. Everyone but you would interpret it that way. When I use facts I reference them - you should know this. I'm not sure what the exact mix of council/ex-council housing Vs private housing in Greenhill is, but there definitely is a split and the private housing is the half nearer Beauchief.

Other than that, I can't see what you can think I've gotten "wrong" here. Opinions can't be wrong, and I've had 3 private messages of support as a direct result of this thread, versus your constant nagging and undermining of my opinion (which I AM entitled to).

t020

20-01-2006, 20:09

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
you can't be wrong if you are from Ecclesall. EVERYBODY knows that....! :rolleyes:

Don't forget the low crime, top schools and the wonderful tree lined streets means you simply cannot make a mistake! Im sure theres a statistic somewhere that says people in Ecclesall are less likely to make mistakes then, say those from Manor... and if not, some numpty will come up with the goods sooner or later :suspect:

Well, actually I once heard on Look North during an election feature that Sheffield Hallam has the highest average IQ score (based on postcodes taken from the internet results of Test the Nation IQ test) than any other constituency in the country. However, I can't use this fact because I've never been able to find a reference to it other than on that news item. But we're going way off the point here..

Ange

21-01-2006, 15:18

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tattoo
well said
greenhills very nice, i live at lowedges and not had any probs theres nothing wrong with the place its home for a lot of decent folk :-) :clap:

bigkev

22-01-2006, 20:35

hear hear ange I am glad somebody else as said something about lowedges being a good place to live at least the information as come from someone who does live up there so they know what they are talking about. I shall be up there in the next 2 weeks visiting some friends of mine who have lived on lowedges for well over 45 years or it could be longer, when I am there I will ask them if it is as rough as they say it is or is it just a dream that someone as thought up they thought it was really rough but found out it was all a bad dream. sometimes I wished I had never left lowedges I would have been there for 47 years now I would think that would have made me part of the fixture and fittings been up there that long. but times change and we all have to move on sometimes or maybe not some people like to stay where they are, but if I had the chance to go back to lowedges or even greenhill I would jump at the chance to go back and to see my old friends in the pubs where I use to go most times.

redrobbo

25-01-2006, 02:47

What am I supposed to have got wrong? I think anyone with half a brain can work out that the "half of it is council/ex council" housing statement was a guesstimate and not an actual statement of fact. Everyone but you would interpret it that way. When I use facts I reference them - you should know this. I'm not sure what the exact mix of council/ex-council housing Vs private housing in Greenhill is, but there definitely is a split and the private housing is the half nearer Beauchief.

Oh dear me t020. You are desperately wriggling to get off you own hook. This is your quote, unedited....
Half of it is council/ ex-council and in close proximity to the Lowedges council estate (rough). The other half is more pleasant and is next to Beauchief (pretty nice).

You are quite clearly claiming that Greenhill is "half...council/ex-council".

You don't have to result to insults t020. That's usually a sign that you've lost your argument, and any credibility with it. So, instead of calling me a half brain, why can't you simply and honestly admit you got it wrong. There is no shame in being honest about making an error of this kind. But it really is the pits when you descend into insults to defend your mistake. You might wish to consider an open apology, but whether one is forthcoming or not, at least you've now admitted that your original statement was a "guesstimate" and that actually you are "not sure what the exact mix of council/ex-council housing Vs private housing in Greenhill is".

So, you have therefore been misleading in your original claim that "half of {Greenhill} is council/ex-council", as you now admit you don't actually know the proportions of council housing in Greenhill after all.

Opinions can't be wrong, and I've had 3 private messages of support as a direct result of this thread, versus your constant nagging and undermining of my opinion (which I AM entitled to).

It must be very reassuring to you that you have received 3 messages of support. They may be from the same supporter(s) who apparently sent you messages of support on the Netherthorpe thread debate. Please invite your supporters to contribute to the debates. They will be very welcome.

You are perfectly at liberty to regard my contributions to this debate as "constant nagging". But then I regard your regular descent into condescension on this and other threads as a diversionary tactic when you are wriggling to get off a hook of your own making. It really is a poor show on your part if you are unable to debate without constantly resorting to insult and condescension.

Now, let's turn our attention to your simply hilarious statement that "Opinions can't be wrong". If I held an opinion that the Chinese were about to invade Greenland, then according to you, I couldn't be wrong - because you clearly state that "Opinions can't be wrong". Your claim is simply nonsense isn't it? You frequently resort to bleating on this and other threads that you are entitled to your opinion. You are indeed t020, and no-one to my knowledge has ever suggested otherwise. However, it surely is incumbent upon you to substantiate your opinions if they are queried. This assist readers to judge the merits of your opinions. But to simply claim that "Opinions can't be wrong" is a poor substitute for not referencing your opinions with facts or some relevant experience. Indeed, unless I can demonstrate that the Chinese are indeed planning to invade Greenland, anyone can see that such an opinion is simply laughable. If challenged, I would surely need to substantiate my claim with some evidence or facts. But even then facts are open to interpretation, and that is when honest, open debate takes place.

For someone who admits he relies a great deal on facts, they are suprisingly absent from t020 on this thread. No crime stats, no car insurance stats, and no stats on the proportion of council housing in Greenhill. Just your opinions - which you claim "can't be wrong". Very puzzling t020.

May I remind you of the words of Thomas Gradgrind.....

"Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!"

Seems you have now abandoned facts for opinions. Very puzzling indeed.

t020

25-01-2006, 17:47

Oh dear me t020. You are desperately wriggling to get off you own hook. This is your quote, unedited....

You are quite clearly claiming that Greenhill is "half...council/ex-council".

You don't have to result to insults t020. That's usually a sign that you've lost your argument, and any credibility with it. So, instead of calling me a half brain, why can't you simply and honestly admit you got it wrong. There is no shame in being honest about making an error of this kind. But it really is the pits when you descend into insults to defend your mistake. You might wish to consider an open apology, but whether one is forthcoming or not, at least you've now admitted that your original statement was a "guesstimate" and that actually you are "not sure what the exact mix of council/ex-council housing Vs private housing in Greenhill is".

So, you have therefore been misleading in your original claim that "half of {Greenhill} is council/ex-council", as you now admit you don't actually know the proportions of council housing in Greenhill after all.

No, as I said, "half" was used in a casual way and not a statistical statement. I've no idea what exact proportion of Greenhill is council/ ex-council and what proportion is private. All I know is that when I'm driving through the private "half" (no, not literally) it looks a lot nicer.

It must be very reassuring to you that you have received 3 messages of support. They may be from the same supporter(s) who apparently sent you messages of support on the Netherthorpe thread debate. Please invite your supporters to contribute to the debates. They will be very welcome.

I doubt they'd dare and quite frankly I don't blame them. It seems that only opinions stating that all areas in Sheffield are nice and fluffy are allowed on this forum.

You are perfectly at liberty to regard my contributions to this debate as "constant nagging". But then I regard your regular descent into condescension on this and other threads as a diversionary tactic when you are wriggling to get off a hook of your own making. It really is a poor show on your part if you are unable to debate without constantly resorting to insult and condescension.

Pot, kettle, black.

Now, let's turn our attention to your simply hilarious statement that "Opinions can't be wrong". If I held an opinion that the Chinese were about to invade Greenland, then according to you, I couldn't be wrong - because you clearly state that "Opinions can't be wrong". Your claim is simply nonsense isn't it? You frequently resort to bleating on this and other threads that you are entitled to your opinion. You are indeed t020, and no-one to my knowledge has ever suggested otherwise. However, it surely is incumbent upon you to substantiate your opinions if they are queried. This assist readers to judge the merits of your opinions. But to simply claim that "Opinions can't be wrong" is a poor substitute for not referencing your opinions with facts or some relevant experience. Indeed, unless I can demonstrate that the Chinese are indeed planning to invade Greenland, anyone can see that such an opinion is simply laughable. If challenged, I would surely need to substantiate my claim with some evidence or facts. But even then facts are open to interpretation, and that is when honest, open debate takes place.

I did substantiate my opinion on Netherthorpe in the other thread with an array of facts and sources, but it seems even then I'm not entitled to an opinion without being put through pages and pages of having to justify myself. With regards "opinions can't be wrong", I meant (and I would've thought this was obvious) in terms of subjective statements. If I think someone is beautiful then that can't be wrong - it's subjective and a unique opinion to me. If I say somewhere is a nice place it also can't be wrong. If I say that China is planning to invade Greenland it isn't an opinion in the true sense of the word, it's an incorrect belief. This is CLEARLY different to subjective issues.

For someone who admits he relies a great deal on facts, they are suprisingly absent from t020 on this thread. No crime stats, no car insurance stats, and no stats on the proportion of council housing in Greenhill. Just your opinions - which you claim "can't be wrong". Very puzzling t020.

May I remind you of the words of Thomas Gradgrind.....

"Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!"

Seems you have now abandoned facts for opinions. Very puzzling indeed.

The original poster didn't request any crime stats (as was the case in the Netherthorpe thread) so I offered my subjective opinion based on the experience I've had of Greenhill. I've been through the area quite a lot in my lifetime and I think the half (again, lets not get the measuring tape out, it's a casual turn of phrase) nearer Beauchief is very green, leafy and pleasant. I also think the half (put that tape measure back before you start) nearer Low Edges is somewhat less pleasant since the housing is ugly council or ex-council stock and it's nearer to the troublesome (check the facts if you want, or read some other threads on here about all the problems) estate of Low Edges.

redrobbo

25-01-2006, 20:02

.....I also think the half (put that tape measure back before you start) nearer Low Edges is somewhat less pleasant since the housing is ugly council or ex-council stock and it's nearer to the troublesome (check the facts if you want, or read some other threads on here about all the problems) estate of Low Edges.

Haven't you overlooked a few things in your apparent haste to condemn the "somewhat less pleasant" part of Greenhill? I mean, "since the housing is ugly council or ex-council stock", as you so eloquently describe it, you seem to have forgotten the Greenhill Conservation Area. This pretty conservation area comprises stone built cottages, houses and a pub, and is very picturesque. I'm quite surprised that you've omitted to mention the Greenhill Conservation Area being as you state you have driven through the area "quite a lot in my lifetime". Might it not be a good idea to get out of your car, and explore Greenhill on foot - as you seem to be missing so much detail? Or are you just unobservant?

In your off-hand dismissal of the area, you've also overlooked the barn conversions in Greenhill, and the newish town houses - they fetch quite a price on the open market, despite being in close proximity to Lowedges.

By your own admission, you have chosen to describe the area in a "casual way". In so doing t020, you again do a grave injustice to this part of Greenhill. By claiming that one half of Greenhill is all "ugly council housing", you've clearly missed seeing the many leafy green avenues, such as Glen View Road - which, incidentally, are all private housing, and form the majority of homes in that "half" of Greenhill.

You are of course entitled to your opinions about Greenhill t020. But, as the posts on this thread testify, they clearly bear no resemblance to the area as others recognise it. Once more, t020, you are out on a limb. Yet again you appear to be snobbily looking down on council housing, calling it ugly, referring to the proximity of other council housing in condemnatory tones, and demeaning a whole community and area in the process. You have now back-tracked on your preposterous claims that 50% of Greenhill is council housing, have totally failed to mention the many leafy avenues of private housing stock, singularly ignored the barn conversions and modern town houses, and even overlooked the beautiful Greenhill Conversation Area - all in the "half" of Greenhill you claim to be filled with "ugly council housing".

There's none so blind as them that cannot see. Time to open your eyes t020, instead of blindly rushing in to condemn.

Oh and just one last point -

It seems that only opinions stating that all areas in Sheffield are nice and fluffy are allowed on this forum. .

This is yet another diversionary tactic you deploy when you are struggling to convince a sceptical audience (bar your three supporters). It just demonstrates that once more, you've lost the argument, and actually t020 - you demean yourself by such absurd claims.

t020

25-01-2006, 22:52

Haven't you overlooked a few things in your apparent haste to condemn the "somewhat less pleasant" part of Greenhill? I mean, "since the housing is ugly council or ex-council stock", as you so eloquently describe it, you seem to have forgotten the Greenhill Conservation Area. This pretty conservation area comprises stone built cottages, houses and a pub, and is very picturesque. I'm quite surprised that you've omitted to mention the Greenhill Conservation Area being as you state you have driven through the area "quite a lot in my lifetime". Might it not be a good idea to get out of your car, and explore Greenhill on foot - as you seem to be missing so much detail? Or are just unobservant?

In your off-hand dismissal of the area, you've also overlooked the barn conversions in Greenhill, and the newish town houses - they fetch quite a price on the open market, despite being in close proximity to Lowedges.

By your own admission, you have chosen to describe the area in a "casual way". In so doing t020, you again do a grave injustice to this part of Greenhill. By claiming that one half of Greenhill is all "ugly council housing", you've clearly missed seeing the many leafy green avenues, such as Glen View Road - which, incidentally, are all private housing, and form the majority of homes in that "half" of Greenhill.

You are of course entitled to your opinions about Greenhill t020. But, as the posts on this thread testify, they clearly bear no resemblance to the area as others recognise it. Once more, t020, you are out on a limb. Yet again you appear to be snobbily looking down on council housing, calling it ugly, referring to the proximity of other council housing in condemnatory tones, and demeaning a whole community and area in the process. You have now back-tracked on your preposterous claims that 50% of Greenhill is council housing, have totally failed to mention the many leafy avenues of private housing stock, singularly ignored the barn conversions and modern town houses, and even overlooked the beautiful Greenhill Conversation Area - all in the "half" of Greenhill you claim to be filled with "ugly council housing".

I never claimed that 50% of Greenhill is council housing. I thought I'd explained that point. "Half of.." is a turn of phrase meaning that part of something appears to be approximately half. I'm sure you've heard it in this context. Surely you're not that distant from the real world? I will however bear in mind your pedantic nature in future.

As for the village part of Greenhill, I have seen it and it looks very nice. Despite what you seem to have interpreted in this thread, I actually like much of Greenhill. For me personally though (and this is the bit where you'll need to drop the condescending attitude and accept it) I don't like the PART near Low Edges because of (a) its proximity to the relatively rough Low Edges and associated crime (check the stats) and (b) the ugly council and ex-council housing stock. This is my opinion, to which I'm more than entitled.

There's none so blind as them that cannot see. Time to open your eyes t020, instead of blindly rushing in to condemn.

Oh and just last point -

This is yet another diversionary tactic you deploy when you are struggling to convince a sceptical audience (bar your three supporters). It just demonstrates that once more, you've lost the argument, and actually t020 - you demean yourself by such absurd claims.

No, it's a very valid point. You in particular are unable to accept any bad opinion about parts of Sheffield, especially from me. From the sound of some of the PMs, you've made your fair share of enemies over your relatively short time on the forum. Maybe you should consider your own "tactics" (i.e. smarmy patronisation, pedantic persistance on irrelevancies, etc) before criticising those of others?

redrobbo

26-01-2006, 00:23

I never claimed that 50% of Greenhill is council housing. I thought I'd explained that point. "Half of.." is a turn of phrase meaning that part of something appears to be approximately half. I'm sure you've heard it in this context. Surely you're not that distant from the real world? I will however bear in mind your pedantic nature in future.

You've already confessed that you are casual with your words.

As for the village part of Greenhill, I have seen it and it looks very nice. Despite what you seem to have interpreted in this thread, I actually like much of Greenhill. For me personally though (and this is the bit where you'll need to drop the condescending attitude and accept it) I don't like the PART near Low Edges because of (a) its proximity to the relatively rough Low Edges and associated crime (check the stats) and (b) the ugly council and ex-council housing stock. This is my opinion, to which I'm more than entitled.

I have already acknowledged that you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

No, it's a very valid point. You in particular are unable to accept any bad opinion about parts of Sheffield, especially from me. From the sound of some of the PMs, you've made your fair share of enemies over your relatively short time on the forum. Maybe you should consider your own "tactics" (i.e. smarmy patronisation, pedantic persistance on irrelevancies, etc) before criticising those of others?

As for your claim that I am unable to accept "any bad opinion about parts of Sheffield" - kindly produce the evidence to support your contention. I fully accept that you hold bad opinions about parts of Sheffield - I've read your views on the "bad areas" of Norfolk Park, Manor, Netherthorpe, Lowedges, Greenhill, ad infinitum. I also note that you "slightly adjusted" your views on Norfolk Park, but then again, you were the only person holding a view that it was "a bad area". You took some convincing, but even then you responded grudgingly.

Your problem, (which is what I perceive it to be), is that you too hastily rush in to post about parts of the city being "a bad area", always condemn council housing, and in your descriptions of an area you too readily use casual language (which you've had the good grace to admit you've done on this thread).

When you are asked to support your views, you resort to complaining that you are entitled to hold whatever opinions you have - and you also strike a quite unnecessary and unpleasant attitude (e.g., alluding to your questioner being 'half-brained', etc. - which, as I've pointed out to you several times over, is a sign of poor debating skills).

All you are being asked is what is your evidence to support your opinions. You don't need to get into an immature strop, and start posting in upper case.

Is your supporting evidence because you always condemn council housing? Is it because you consider even leafy avenues filled with private housing as being undesirable because they are in close proximity to another area (e.g., you linked Greenhill with Lowedges, and you linked Norfolk Park with Manor)? Is it because you are allegedly familiar with the area simply because you frequently drive through it?

I found your opinions about Greenhill surprising. Over the years, I have delivered leaflets to just about every street in Greenhill. I'll be there again in two weeks time, tramping up and down the streets of Greenhill once again. Almost weekly I visit friends in Greenhill - in fact, that's where I spent last Christmas Day. I attend an annual political fund-raising garden party in Greenhill Conservation Area. The "half" of Greenhill you described bears no resemblance to my own experiences of the same area, or that of other posters on this thread.

But, as I've already stated, you are indeed entitled to your opinions. Just don't claim that opinions can't be wrong. That really is silly.

And as for your claim that I've made "enemies"? :huh: Do get a grip on reality - there isn't a war taking place on SF t020. It's called a debate.