Anyone read about the problems in the Sheffield Star tonight regarding a group of youths who attacked a group of schoolchildren after a visit to a careers exhibition? The kids were not only from King Ecberts but also Notre Dame. And returning to their schools on the tram were physically and verbally abused and pelted with stones.
My daughter has only just told me about it after all this time.It seems there were problems inside the building as well. No mention in the Star about the descriptions of these people so you will have to hazard a guess as free speech has gone in the favour of political correctness.
If a group of white males attacked a group of ethnic people in this way there would be hell to pay from the press,politicians and police and they would be named and dragged in front of tv cameras.
I dont see any form of racial integration in this country full of scroungers, maybe a bloodbath

Always one to live and let live regarding race, politics etc. Not any more.

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't the pupils at that school wear uniforms.
Maybe that was the reason why theses mindless yobs verbally abused them.
Uniforms on school kids are seen as 'better class of pupils' these days and are despised by under educated louts.

cycleracer, you know and I know why they were attacked you dont attack people because they have a school unifiorm. Many of those kids are working class despite the ties and blazers.

Originally posted by billyblade
cycleracer, you know and I know why they were attacked you dont attack people because they have a school unifiorm. Many of those kids are working class despite the ties and blazers. Do I , then thats news to me.
I don't read the Star and you don't say why they were attacked.
Explain please.

Originally posted by billyblade
cycleracer, you know and I know why they were attacked you dont attack people because they have a school unifiorm. Many of those kids are working class despite the ties and blazers.

That's funny - when I was at school kids used to get attacked for wearing uniforms - it identifies what school you are from. Valley v Newfield anybody!?!

Originally posted by fnkysknky
That's funny - when I was at school kids used to get attacked for wearing uniforms - it identifies what school you are from. Valley v Newfield anybody!?! Yeah but its a bit different now days.
Example you parade around The Manor in a school uniform the likely hood is you will get ridiculed by local kids.
You walk round Hallam then you won't.
The difference being school uniforms in the wrong area attract violence.
Sad state of affairs i know, but its true.

Yeah that's what I'm saying Cycleracer - school uniforms can and do attract violence.

It's unfair to say that about the Manor though - it's no where near as bad as people make out. It's also very possible that you could get attacked in Hallam, this kinda crap happens everywhere.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Yeah that's what I'm saying Cycleracer - school uniforms can and do attract violence.

It's unfair to say that about the Manor though - it's no where near as bad as people make out. It's also very possible that you could get attacked in Hallam, this kinda crap happens everywhere. Yeah, your right i am leaving myself wide open there.
I only mentioned Manor as an example, i am not accusing the area of being a place of violence.
I could have used a whole lot of areas but the Manor is regionally known due to T.V reports.
I could have said Wybourn but then i'd have Clhoe on my back ranting her little heart out at that bad old Cycleracer.:(

Hehe, I know what you meant :)

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Valley v Newfield anybody!?!

Remember it well - Lees Hall Golf Course, scene of many a battle:thumbsup:

I did here about this as my daughter goes to King Egberts - they dont wear uniform but just sweatshirts, where were the teachers?
Should they have been out of school on there own anyway? I heard they had to make there own way there.

Boys will be Boys! and girls it appears
Full Story here (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=694181)

The careers thing at don valley is notorious for school scraps. To be honest I don't know why they even hold it anymore. It was useless to me and a friend of mine got beat up stood waiting for the tram.

Whats the thing with uniforms then eh? never mentioned it, my daughter was wearing normal clothes so remember you brought that up first . And whats the thing about walking about in 'Hallam' about? chip on shoulder I reckon. Probably lost mine when I left Hucklow Rd and then Pipworth Road juniors. Now live and walk about in Hallam.

I'm really surprised at the comments regarding uniforms. Does that mean that some schools in Sheffield don't have them?

In Wigan borough (where I work) *all* schools have uniforms, be they primary or high.

Cycleracer!! :P
I live on the Manor PARK, not the Manor or Wybourn!
I went to All Saints while most of the others round here went to Waltheof, Myrtle or City. I had to wear a uniform... shirt, skirt, tie, job lot and never really had any abuse from anyone. Except the odd bit of banter about Bible Bashing, but I know I'm not religious so who gives a t0$$
You're all just jealous that I live in the best part of Sheffield... so there! :P
Chloé:loopy:

Originally posted by billyblade
Whats the thing with uniforms then eh? never mentioned it,

What's the thing with the comments about race eh? The article never mentioned that either... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
Correct me if i'm wrong but don't the pupils at that school wear uniforms.
Maybe that was the reason why theses mindless yobs verbally abused them.
Uniforms on school kids are seen as 'better class of pupils' these days and are despised by under educated louts.

flippin eck!! i thought every primary school wore uniforms!!!

Originally posted by billyblade
Always one to live and let live regarding race, politics etc. Not any more.

Would you kindly explain what you mean by this? Are you telling us that you are now going to become active, racially and politically?

Originally posted by billyblad
Always one to live and let live regarding race, politics etc. Not any more.
Originally posted by max
Would you kindly explain what you mean by this? Are you telling us that you are now going to become active, racially and politically?
I probably shouldn't speak for someone else but ...

I presume/speculate that his daughter (who he said goes to King Ecgbert) told him that the 4 kids who were attacked were white and the gang of 30 attackers of a different ethnic origin. The point being that if it was the other way around the story would have been reported as an outrageous racial attack and may have even made the national press.

I think there is a tendency in this country to automatically assume all white on black (generalising to save typing!) attacks are racially motivated, whilst black on white crimes are NOT assumed to be racially motivated unless proven otherwise. I personally don't think this encourages racial tolerance.

Let's pretend that the story was reported in the same way except the gang of 30 were white kids and those attacked were 4 Asians kids. Now let's say you are the Asian parent of a kid at the same school as those attacked. There is no mention of this being a racist attack in the press and you go on to this forum to read comments that it's just "toffs getting a slap" or it's just a "school scrap". How would you feel? I speculate that this is perhaps how the parent who started this thread feels.

Does anyone else thing there is disparity in how "race hate" crimes are classified/reported? Isn't any disparity in how we classify/report race hate crimes itself racist? Is it counter-productive in the fight against racism?

Originally posted by Zamo
Does anyone else thing there is disparity in how "race hate" crimes are classified/reported? Isn't any disparity in how we classify/report race hate crimes itself racist? Is it counter-productive in the fight against racism?


Definetly. I don't know your colour Zamo, but if you are white and I said your comments were rubbish and you weren't welcome on here, it would be seen as criticism, but if you were black, would I get jumped on for being racist?

BTW your comments ARE good and you ARE welcome!

Originally posted by fnkysknky
That's funny - when I was at school kids used to get attacked for wearing uniforms - it identifies what school you are from. Valley v Newfield anybody!?!

I remember that feud... and me being the easy target cos I was from outside the area (lived in Walkley in those days) who the Norton/Gleadless residents at the School would try and blame for starting fights at Newfield...

WTF?! How the hell could I start fights at Newfield school when at the time I didn't even know where the friggin' place WAS?! :mad:

Seriously though the AMOUNT of times we had their chief sir in assemblies bitching about skirmishes between Newfield pupils and our lot, ridiculous...

What I'd like to know is what started the feud in the first place?! I don't really care, cos I'm not a resident of that locality, I'd just like to know out of curiosity.

Originally posted by Zamo
I probably shouldn't speak for someone else but ...

Spot on Zamo, you shouldn't speak for others.

Why has this thread degenerated into yet another rant about race? In typical fashion no facts have been used to justify anyone's position just innuendo. If the person whose daughter witnessed the attack wants us to know what really happened then why hasn't he told us what she saw? Yet again, innuendo and unsubstantiated anecdotes.

Obviously, I'll take it back if the witness is willing to make a statement to the police and we actually see some facts. But really Zamo, why do you read so much into what isn't written?

Incidentally, if you are talking for billyblade then what does he mean by no longer letting people live and let live?

Originally posted by Rich
I remember that feud... and me being the easy target cos I was from outside the area (lived in Walkley in those days) who the Norton/Gleadless residents at the School would try and blame for starting fights at Newfield...

WTF?! How the hell could I start fights at Newfield school when at the time I didn't even know where the friggin' place WAS?! :mad:

Seriously though the AMOUNT of times we had their chief sir in assemblies bitching about skirmishes between Newfield pupils and our lot, ridiculous...

What I'd like to know is what started the feud in the first place?! I don't really care, cos I'm not a resident of that locality, I'd just like to know out of curiosity.

Don't know what started it - I've never known the two to get on. Best thing is - I used to be in the middle of it all while I was at Valley then when Valley closed and I went to Meadowhead beef started between us and Newfield. So I ended up in the middle of it again - yay :rolleyes:

Sorry to reply to your posts so late, not got the kind of job where I sit behind a computer screen.
Zamo got it spot on ,said exactly what I felt which is : its o.k for some people to speak their minds about certain things but if you reverse the situation it just doesnt work. Max, if you think Im doing all this from a racists stand point I am quite prepared to come into the Princess Royal with a: an afro caribean mate b: a Sikh and a Muslim who all get on like a house on fire. Plus there will be some mates from another part of Europe at the end of November if you really fancy making a night of it!
Do you realise that the ethnic minorities know you are patronising them?

Bill

p.s.
Why should Zamo not speak for others? surely a sign of a caring society, with greasy haired people sporting beards and the mandatory roll ups. Entering quiz nights and telling people that they go in the rough boozers in working class parts of Sheffield.


Bill

(ex smoker)

My mate reckoned he got a gang of Valley kids together and that they were going to come down to Newfield and get us, but they had to turn back because they couldn't get that far during their lunch break!

I took a group of kids down to Don Valley last Thursday. They were supervised at all times. It was only a small group and not likely to cause a fuss. Inside the hall, there were no problems, but transporting kids across town using public transport is asking for trouble. I would suggest that events such as these take place in the evening, with parents going with their kids as individuals.

Zamo your post makes a lot of sense. Thanks to people such as max and the rest of the PC brigade, the racism issue has gone far beyond an equal balance. Ethnics can cry racism at any opportunity, but if a white person does the same, they are the ones accused of being racist for thinking the issue was about race! It also proves that one half of the city is a lot safer than the other.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
That's funny - when I was at school kids used to get attacked for wearing uniforms - it identifies what school you are from. Valley v Newfield anybody!?!

Whoah, I remember that when I was at Valley (then when it closed moved to Newfield and hoped no-one recognised me.

Lol.

Take care and all the best.

Jason

Billyblade

Would you kindly answer the following questions presented to you:

Originally posted by fnkysknky
What's the thing with the comments about race eh? The article never mentioned that either... :rolleyes:


Originally posted by max
Would you kindly explain what you mean by this? Are you telling us that you are now going to become active, racially and politically?

I understand your concern about the safety of your child, but I also understand Max's point about threads quickly turning into slanging matches 'tween different races. Do not forget that when I complained about cold Sheffield winters in another thread, your response was for me to get of the country.

Abby,

' Would you kindly answer the following questions presented to you'

Do you think you are my teacher or summat?

And the reference to the airport and the ability to jet away when the temperature drops has been said to me many times when Ive complained about the cold on building sites.
What do you think I should do? Run crying to the boss!

Out of interest I had a look at your site when I first joined this board and the comments about Liverpool and scousers could be taken as quite unpleasant if you came from that City

billyblade, if you want people to take you seriously you must learn how to debate. Please do not answer questions with more questions. Abby,fnkysknky & I have posed serious questions. What about answers?

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
Correct me if i'm wrong but don't the pupils at that school wear uniforms.
Maybe that was the reason why theses mindless yobs verbally abused them.
Uniforms on school kids are seen as 'better class of pupils' these days and are despised by under educated louts.
LMAO.

If only. I used to wear a school uniform (3rd year to 5th year).
I went to Gleadless Valley Secondary school (V.O.T)!

Not exactly a posh school.... more of a working class school! You may even call it a rough school! No longer there now cos it's been torn down and replaced with houses.

Anyway... my point was I doubt it was the uniform cos MOST sheffield schools now have uniformed dress.

However, I think billy blade is right in saying that if a group of white youths attacked a group of black or other ethnicity children they would be branded racist... or it was a racists attack. They'd probably be right too.

But when it happens in reverse, even tho it's still probably racially motivated, it's not classed as so.

Double standards if you ask me. However with that in mind, without having read the article, know the facts I can't say either way.

Originally posted by mikey
Remember it well - Lees Hall Golf Course, scene of many a battle:thumbsup:
I have been involved in some of those battles! He he!

V.O.T.... V.O.T.... V.O.T... sorry got nostalgic there for a sec!

Originally posted by alchresearch
Definetly. I don't know your colour Zamo, but if you are white and I said your comments were rubbish and you weren't welcome on here, it would be seen as criticism, but if you were black, would I get jumped on for being racist?

BTW your comments ARE good and you ARE welcome!
Yeah it's fair to say Zamo is a white guy.

OK he's a southerner but we wont hold it against him!
:thumbsup:

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I have been involved in some of those battles! He he!

V.O.T.... V.O.T.... V.O.T... sorry got nestalgic there for a sec!

These battles used to go on in the 70's and 80's, when I was at Newfield again not a posh school same as Valley really, not that I used to be involved just remember on the last day of term, a gang of kids marching on the school.

DB
Nestalgic?? You getting a bit broody?

DOH :shocked:

Originally posted by max
Spot on Zamo, you shouldn't speak for others.
Sorry Sir. I think what I was doing was what is known as "reading between the lines".

Originally posted by max
Why has this thread degenerated into yet another rant about race? [/B]
Two things:
1. If you were in possession of the "reading between the lines” skill, you would have realised that this thread start out about race.

2. Even if a topic of discussion does turn to the issue of race, why do you see this as a "degeneration"? Will not the conquering of our caveman instinct to fear and distrust strangers (different races, cultures, beliefs) be the key to a stable and peaceful world? Isn't the only way to achieve this through discussion? Why do you feel so uncomfortable talking about it?

Originally posted by max
In typical fashion no facts have been used to justify anyone's position just innuendo. If the person whose daughter witnessed the attack wants us to know what really happened then why hasn't he told us what she saw? Yet again, innuendo and unsubstantiated anecdotes. Obviously, I'll take it back if the witness is willing to make a statement to the police and we actually see some facts. [/B]
Why does his daughter need to make a statement to the police? I don't think the police have any shortage of witness statements and there was also CCTV footage.

The reason race was brought up by billieblade is because it wasn’t mentioned in the press article and therefore isn’t being viewed by the police as a racially motivated crime. This highlights a possible disparity in how race hate cases are classified because had the racial roles been reversed it would have been viewed as racially motivated. This comment is prompted by the fact that billyblade's daughter (who attends the school) informs him that it was a non-white attack on whites. I’m not sure what sort of "innuendos" you think are being implied? There are racists in all races.

All that I am imply - no, stating - is that if we only ever label white on black crime as racist then we risk alienating (some) white people and inadvertently encourage racist feelings. Read billyblades original posting again and you will see what I mean.

Originally posted by max
But really Zamo, why do you read so much into what isn't written?[/B]
I don't think I read too much into things. Why do I have to form an opinion based on the "facts" as written in one press article? Why can't I used information provided from other sources and draw on my own experiences and observations?

Originally posted by max
Incidentally, if you are talking for billyblade then what does he mean by no longer letting people live and let live? [/B]
It's just an angry 'throw-away' statement - shouldn't try to read too much into it if I was you. Remember Max, if you really want to steer someone away from the ‘dark side’ then you need to gentle persuade. If all you do is look for excuses to label them racist in order to dismiss their views, then you will only achieve the opposite.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Don't know what started it - I've never known the two to get on. Best thing is - I used to be in the middle of it all while I was at Valley then when Valley closed and I went to Meadowhead beef started between us and Newfield. So I ended up in the middle of it again - yay :rolleyes:

What years were you at Gleadless Valley? I was there 1987-1992, if you were there during that period it's possible I might know you....

1989 - 1994 at Valley me.

Nice to see it so greatley reprisented on here.

V.O.T.... V.O.T

Originally posted by DaBouncer
.....

V.O.T.... V.O.T

What does that stand for?

Nomme

It stands for Valley On Tour!

You have to have been a pupil at Gleadless Valley to know :thumbsup:

Sorry, dont know how to cut and paste like a lot of the people on here!

Apparently my debating skills do not match up to your standards.
(cannot believe that statement what a lot of fu....g snobs)

Probably my grammer is not up to much either (shes dead actually hit by a bus on Beumont Road) Is this a site for local chat without everyone being paranoid about every statement, or as it seems a left wing elitist cyber state peopled by......oh forgot not allowed to say anything.

If ya dont want me on the board, tell me to pi ss off

On a more serious note, there is a serious undercurrent of unrest in this country among people who would never ever dream of criticising anyone for there religion ,colour etc. England is probably one of the most tolerant nations on this planet But strange as it may seem its the politically correct ..social workers..teachers..left wing politicians who are driving people towards extremism because you dont want to allow me and others to say what I think without me being branded as racist.

I am going to save the twist in this particular tale till last.

Or I might just not bother.


Bill



The choice is yours

Newfield's answer to VOT was the NBA, Newfield Barmy Army. You'd see the letters on a few walls but I think it was pretty much dead and buried by the time I left. Mind you, so was Gleadless Valley....

I remember I went to a "re-union" at Gleadless Valley back in 1995 just before it went to that great schoolyard in the sky.... not much of a re-union, apart from the mother of this lass called Michelle who used to be in my class, there was only me who turned up for it...

It also took me bloody 3 HOURS to get back to Walkley from Norton as I couldn't remember where the bus stop was to get the 48 back in to town, and spent aaaaaaaaages waiting on the wrong side of the road for a bus that went totally in the opposite direction to where I wanted to go cos I had a vague memory of the number 2 circular bus going through to the bottom of Stannington Road from Norton from the bottom of Bunting Nook, I thought it would be quicker going that way than going through town :(

Originally posted by billyblade
Whats the thing with uniforms then eh? never mentioned it, my daughter was wearing normal clothes so remember you brought that up first . And whats the thing about walking about in 'Hallam' about? chip on shoulder I reckon. Probably lost mine when I left Hucklow Rd and then Pipworth Road juniors. Now live and walk about in Hallam. Theres no thing about school uniforms and i am aware you never mentioned it,,I did.
What i,m saying is i don't know the facts as i have not read the article, so not knowing your daughter was attacked by ethnic minority i persumed it was just yobs and looking to pick a fight with another scolar therefor just trying to pinpoint any cause for the attack.
I can assure you i do not have a thing for school uniforms. .
So why do you think i have a chip on my shoulder about Hallam.
Perhaps you could explain that a bit more clearly.

Who cares if you live in Hallam, good luck is what i say, i would'nt want to live there i'm happy in Longley, very happy.

Also the article never mentioned about racism either so why would i know the answer to your original thread.
I just replied to your thread and you insiuate i,m some sort of Peodophile obsessed with school uniforms.

I do agree with what some one said later in this thread (DB I think) that if the tables were reversed there would be an outcry.

Originally posted by Chloe
Cycleracer!! :P
I live on the Manor PARK, not the Manor or Wybourn!
I went to All Saints while most of the others round here went to Waltheof, Myrtle or City. I had to wear a uniform... shirt, skirt, tie, job lot and never really had any abuse from anyone. Except the odd bit of banter about Bible Bashing, but I know I'm not religious so who gives a t0$$
You're all just jealous that I live in the best part of Sheffield... so there! :P
Chloé:loopy: Oh i,m sure you do:thumbsup: and i am jealous..So there.:bigsmile:

Perhaps the people who rule this board, fnkyskny,abby, max

could start a new category entitled 'pompous comments' why on

earth would I respond to a comment like PLEASE EXPLAIN

YOURSELF , as though Im cringing at the back of the class!

Here goes although I dont see why I need to: I said that my

daughter was not wearing a uniform at the time. YOU have said

more or less that I was insinuating that you had something about

school uniforms which I didnt as anyone who reads the thread

carefully can tell.

Paranoia can destroy people.


p.s. Ive been told that I dont know how to debate, have Max or any of the other rulers mentioned anything to you yet? No I didnt think so as you seem to p..s in the same pot

Don't worry billyblade, you'll get used to it. You're not allowed to have opinions based on your own experience and feelings, only opinions based on facts and stats that have been (suitably twisted and manipulated to appeal to lefties) used in the Guardian. Other newspapers are invalid - not just tabloids, just any that don't have a left wing political agenda.

Originally posted by billyblade
Perhaps the people who rule this board, fnkyskny,abby, max

could start a new category entitled 'pompous comments' why on

earth would I respond to a comment like PLEASE EXPLAIN

YOURSELF , as though Im cringing at the back of the class!

Here goes although I dont see why I need to: I said that my

daughter was not wearing a uniform at the time. YOU have said

more or less that I was insinuating that you had something about

school uniforms which I didnt as anyone who reads the thread

carefully can tell.

Paranoia can destroy people.


p.s. Ive been told that I dont know how to debate, have Max or any of the other rulers mentioned anything to you yet? No I didnt think so as you seem to p..s in the same pot I think you need to go back and re-read your thread Billyblade.
You said I know why your daughter was attacked, I said that was news to me as i did not know why your daughter was attacked.
You assumed infact insisted that i knew so i asked you to explain.
So i am insinuating that you said i have a thing about school uniforms.
Are you saying i,m making that up, again read your own thread.
I agree with Max that if you start debate then learn to understand others opinions and don't assume that everyones going to agree the same opinion or understand your exact intention about your thread.
Go and read your thread again then read my comments before you go off on the wild side.
Your looking to become another t020 which we can all do without.

So you didnt mention school uniforms then?

I give up, i really do.
OK last post from me on this thread.
Yes I did mention uniforms, i am not denying that.
The whole point is you said whats this thing about uniforms eh?.
The uniforms are not the issue, the attack is so why trundle off the thread on my first reply and loose it or me mentioning uniforms.
Ok we can go on for ever on this so you win and i'll shut up and hope you daughter is alright as its her that matters after all and as a father myself i know what its like when your offspring are attacked, i have been through it all myself.
Regards to your daughter and lets live and let live.

Become another t020 ,

Not possible, we are all different, entitled to our own opinions .But it seems that if they differ from yours cyclist and the rulers (for you seem to be a hanger on and just follow others when the boot goes in).
Im trying to think of a book that I read about a young girl growing up in China. When I remember the name of it I will tell you all. But she was taught from an early age what to think not how to think

I think that the rulers of this board would like that kind of state. i.e. lots of followers, hangers on that creep around them at every opportunity .No way are you allowed to have a different opinion or if you do you can hear the screams over the computer.

Im not surprised that you made your last post the ending of the subject for you are a bottleless person indeed

Hmm, just changed my mind.
I hide behind whome exactly.
Bottleless am I, you know me do you, well if you did you would know i,m not as bottleless as you think.
I came back with a genuine reply to your thread and you turned my reply into a personal vendetter.
When i put you streight you made your own matters worst by continuing to stick the boot into me.
Hense your user name you sound just like one of those football hooligans , it fits well.
I have no problem with your thread but i do have a problem with your attitude when all i did was to try and look into the reason why the attack happened and you replied to me as if i should know what happened and my reply seems to have set you on a mission to kick the a***s of anyone who disagrees with you.
If you don't want other peoples views don't post.
Its that simple.......no doubt we will cross paths again on this forum and if i have to avoid posting a reply to your threads in fear that you will make an issue and rant and rave everytime then maybe they won't.
Your argument is lost and even though you continue to point the gun at me and other forum users I would be carefull it does'nt backfire.

Chill out guys

Mikey you are not in a classroom now talking to ten year olds, chill out has not been used since the seventies.
Cyclist ,I didnt say you were hiding behind anyone you are just a follower.

Originally posted by mikey
Chill out guys :cool: Chilled:thumbsup:

Would that have two wheels and be used as transport by any chance? Only asking as Ive been criticised on this board for my use of the English language before. (sorry about the English bit I know it offends certain people)

Thats it,

Wild Swans. Chinese girl growing up not allowed to think anything but the party line . No internet connections in those days
but if there was ...goodness knows how she would have fared dare to speak your mind! In the last week alone I am considered : racist (despite having freinds of virtually every colour)
Illiterate (maybe , others can judge that i.e. the many teachers on this board) Debating skills no good (f..k question time then) and for good measure a football hooligan! nice one whoever dreamed that one up. Like Ive said in a previous post the best bit will be saved till last then the prancing left wing liberals will be kissing my ass.

Bill

Doubt it.
You twist everything that is said to you and make it as though everyone is having a go at you but how wrong you are.
Instead of ranting on with pathetic jestures and unfounded rubbish take a long good look back from the start of this thread and read it carefully.
There are no forum members calling you what you described, just merely pointing out views and you seem to self destruct every time anyone says anything.
I also asked how your daughter was after her attack which was an important question put to you but you failed to answer that, and rather than tell me her welfare you continue to get all paranoid.
HOW IS YOUR DAUGHTER

I am genuinely interested and care especially about Children and I really do hope she is OK and hope it has not put her off seeking whatever it is she wants to do.

Forget about what you think about me and others on this forum its not important, what is important is that your daughter has recovered from her ordeal and is unharmed.
Please let me know and pass on my regards.

Paul.

Originally posted by billyblade
Mikey you are not in a classroom now talking to ten year olds, chill out has not been used since the seventies.


Take it or leave it pal:thumbsup:
Thats funny my kids use that phrase all the time so maybe its made a comeback. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by billyblade
In the last week alone I am considered : racist (despite having freinds of virtually every colour)
Illiterate (maybe , others can judge that i.e. the many teachers on this board) Debating skills no good (f..k question time then) and for good measure a football hooligan!
Bill

Bill, mate, you obviously have not grasped the concept of debating on this forum. You're far too controversial, which comes with having an opinion of your own. Get real, you have to say what 'they' want hear, not what you want them to hear. Stick to these simple guidelines and you should be okay.

It took me a while to catch on, I must admit, but I have now realised the following:-

I'm white, so I must be racist.

I'm male, so I must be sexist.

I'm a football supporter so, therefore, I must be a hooligan.

Oh yeah, and I didn't go to University, so I must be a total retard who has nothing worthwhile to say anyway.

Now you might find it hard to accept this in your own case, but it's quite easy for me. I was brought up in a scummy council estate nowhere near the Hallam constituency, and I also come from a broken home, so I must be a piece of low-life working class scum, cause I've had it drummed into me for years by people who I've now come to respect as my superiors.

Know your place in the social scheme of things and deal with it. I don't try to aspire to anything. I haven't got the wit or intelligence, so why bother?

Originally posted by Houdi
Bill, mate, you obviously have not grasped the concept of debating on this forum. You're far too controversial, which comes with having an opinion of your own. Get real, you have to say what 'they' want hear, not what you want them to hear. Stick to these simple guidelines and you should be okay.

It took me a while to catch on, I must admit, but I have now realised the following:-

I'm white, so I must be racist.

I'm male, so I must be sexist.

I'm a football supporter so, therefore, I must be a hooligan.


Agree with that part of your post. It does seem that if one doesn't hold a left wing, socialist, do-gooder position on most issues then one is treated like a lower form of life. Opinions don't seem to be allowed on here - only if they can be backed up with 'cast iron' (manipulated) statistics found on the left wing pages of the Do Gooder, sorry, Guardian. Any personal experiences or generalisations are immediately rendered invalid.

As for the second part of your post, Bill is from Crosspool and therefore lives in the Hallam constituency so I'm not sure what you're getting at really. Most of the do-gooders are teachers, and I suspect Max could be married to one but I'm not entirely sure. Either way, this forum is fast becoming a place of censorship and left-only views.

Isn't the problem that billyblade is insinuating that the attack (remember the thread?) was asian kids beating up white kids, but that no-one dare say it?

Would it be better to have a new thread under something like freedom of speech or the lack of it, in what I was brought up to believe is a democracy but am beginning to realise is not .

Plus can I be a moderator? gi us a job. Its easy !what you do is tell people to chill out or bar them when you dont like what they say or even wipe out postings.

Better idea, lets all buy the same coloured uniforms with little caps, and party badges.Agree to the same things or else be sent to a prison.

Bill

Originally posted by t020
Agree with that part of your post. It does seem that if one doesn't hold a left wing, socialist, do-gooder position on most issues then one is treated like a lower form of life. Opinions don't seem to be allowed on here - only if they can be backed up with 'cast iron' (manipulated) statistics found on the left wing pages of the Do Gooder, sorry, Guardian. Any personal experiences or generalisations are immediately rendered invalid...
Either way, this forum is fast becoming a place of censorship and left-only views.

I tend to agree t0 - but please don't confuse all left-wingers with the politically correct.

Originally posted by t020
Agree with that part of your post. It does seem that if one doesn't hold a left wing, socialist, do-gooder position on most issues then one is treated like a lower form of life. Opinions don't seem to be allowed on here - only if they can be backed up with 'cast iron' (manipulated) statistics found on the left wing pages of the Do Gooder, sorry, Guardian. Any personal experiences or generalisations are immediately rendered invalid.

As for the second part of your post, Bill is from Crosspool and therefore lives in the Hallam constituency so I'm not sure what you're getting at really. Most of the do-gooders are teachers, and I suspect Max could be married to one but I'm not entirely sure. Either way, this forum is fast becoming a place of censorship and left-only views. t020 The other day you said people with low IQ should not be given air time on the radio, now we can't have it both ways can we or are you just the hypicrit i took you for in the first place.:loopy:

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
t020 The other day you said people with low IQ should not be given air time on the radio, now we can't have it both ways can we or are you just the hypicrit i took you for in the first place.:loopy:

Not sure if you mean I've got a low IQ or not, but I can't disagree with you there. I cartainly have got a low IQ, but then I was made for sh**ging and not studying.

Think you're being rather unfair to t020 though.

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
t020 The other day you said people with low IQ should not be given air time on the radio, now we can't have it both ways can we or are you just the hypicrit i took you for in the first place.:loopy:

Don't see what you're trying to say here, Cycleracer. The other day, I said Nick Margerrison should give thicker people less air time because they couldn't debate well. That doesn't make their opinions any less valid, it just doesn't make for very good radio. Who exactly are you implying has a low IQ, cycleracer? Are you saying that people of a left-wing political persuasion have more intelligence? If you are, then you're talking absolute nonsense.

Thats funny Houdi!

Must agree, its better and easier than a crossword (better say the Guardian just to keep on the right side of the politburo).
I enjoyed not going to school and then not on to university and now reaping the rewards by being thick.

Bill

I wore Notre Dame's lovely bottle green uniform up in Fulwood and it never caused me any problems at home in Shiregreen...

me ruler of this board - what the hell are you on :confused:

Originally posted by Rich
What years were you at Gleadless Valley? I was there 1987-1992, if you were there during that period it's possible I might know you....

'92 - '94 and had 2 brothers and a sister go there before me.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
'92 - '94 and had 2 brothers and a sister go there before me.

Hmm, I was before your time then.

Bill, mate, you obviously have not grasped the concept of debating on this forum. You're far too controversial, which comes with having an opinion of your own. Get real, you have to say what 'they' want hear, not what you want them to hear. Stick to these simple guidelines and you should be okay.

It took me a while to catch on, I must admit, but I have now realised the following:-

I'm white, so I must be racist.

I'm male, so I must be sexist.

I'm a football supporter so, therefore, I must be a hooligan.

Oh yeah, and I didn't go to University, so I must be a total retard who has nothing worthwhile to say anyway.
I like people to respect the terms of use they agreed to by using this forum.

I don't like people to use the forum for one-to-one messages (that's what PM and email was invented for).

I don't like Houdi talking about his toilet habits when others are trying to discuss Al Qaeda.

I don't like users abusing each other and ruining other people's discussions.

Therefore I must be a "leftie", Guardian reading, do-gooder... sure, sure... yawn...

You attention seekers really need to get over yourselves.

Originally posted by t020
Agree with that part of your post. It does seem that if one doesn't hold a left wing, socialist, do-gooder position on most issues then one is treated like a lower form of life. Opinions don't seem to be allowed on here - only if they can be backed up with 'cast iron' (manipulated) statistics found on the left wing pages of the Do Gooder, sorry, Guardian. Any personal experiences or generalisations are immediately rendered invalid.

As for the second part of your post, Bill is from Crosspool and therefore lives in the Hallam constituency so I'm not sure what you're getting at really. Most of the do-gooders are teachers, and I suspect Max could be married to one but I'm not entirely sure. Either way, this forum is fast becoming a place of censorship and left-only views.
Can you give me an example of when you have been denied of your opinion?

I don't believe you need evidence to back opinions up, but if you don't have any evidence you're not going to do a very good job of trying to change my opinion.

For example you could say "All people who wear baseball caps are cretins". This might be your opinion (don't know if it is or not BTW, just know it's been discussed before), but if you don't give any reason why it's your opinion, or how that opinion is formed, then I don't see how the opinion is valid.

Originally posted by Geoff


I don't like Houdi talking about his toilet habits when others are trying to discuss Al Qaeda.



I agree wholheartedly. Anyone wishing to discuss toilet habits should try the 'Why do they have these silly days' thread in General Chit-Chat

Originally posted by Sidla
For example you could say "All people who wear baseball caps are cretins". This might be your opinion (don't know if it is or not BTW, just know it's been discussed before),
I believe that was Max saying that anyone who wears baseball caps other than for sport is stupid or something along those lines.

Just wanted to clear that up! You may carry on arguing now!

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I believe that was Max saying that anyone who wears baseball caps other than for sport is stupid or something along those lines.

Just wanted to clear that up! You may carry on arguing now!
If you're going to use my name then at least quote me correctly. What I said was that baseball caps when worn as fashion items are naff. Nothing to do with intelligence. However, if the cap fits (pun intended) DaB, if the cap fits.

Originally posted by max
If you're going to use my name then at least quote me correctly. What I said was that baseball caps when worn as fashion items are naff. Nothing to do with intelligence. However, if the cap fits (pun intended) DaB, if the cap fits.
Pah whatever. Same difference.

And I respect your opinion.
And yes my fashion cap fits well thankyou. After all, that's what they are designed for! :P

Here we go again. Ok first off just because white kids attack black kids will NOT make it a hate crime in the eyes of the police. So many people in this thread are starting with faulty logic. It happens EVERYDAY in this country a white kid attacking a black kid and it's just not a hate crime or racially motivated. So please don't simplify the law like that, go look up the definition of a hate crime because like peoples opinion of what racism is your starting with faulty facts.

Personally i believe we should totally remove the whole concept of hate crimes anyway. Simple as this IMO, all crimes are hate crimes. We should not be giving higher sentences because some angry white guy had a fight and uttered some racial slur. Just because a racial slur is uttered, does not make it racially motivated. It's FAR too hard to prove any crime i racially motivated, personally i believe we should make sentencing for all crimes tougher, as they are all 'hate' crimes (white on white black on black whatever).

Once again though we see people making eloquent argument which make sense, but have no bearing to the real world. Yeah Zamo reading your thread i would totally agree with you, but one group of kids of a certain ethnicity attacking another group of another is not viewed in the polices eyes as a racially motivated attack. So your argument breaks down before it even starts. But certainly, if we lived in a world where any attack on another ethnicity is a hate crime then your theory would make sense.

And on another note, this was MADE a hate crime by the author of this post. Not max or anybody else after. It's VERY likely this was just a School rivalry thing and yes believe it or not different schools have different ethnic mixes. But ONCE AGAIN certain people have MADE this a race issue, i simply do not understand why, maybe somebody can answer that for me. I mean were these kids should 'honkey' while beating them up? Were they wearing Swastikas and white pointed hats? Or (as i suspect) is this JUST a case of kids fighting who didn't think that because they were Asian their actions could be construed by some people as racially motivated. We have a legal system and we also have a police force dripping in racism. Believe me if there was anyway the police thought they could get this to court and get a conviction as a hate crime THEY WOULD.

A brief explanation on how the law works -

1) Crime happens.
2) If somebody makes a statement to the police saying they believe it was racially motivated it will be investigated as racially motivated using the Macpherson report definition. Obviously what you people want to believe is that the police have been told it's racially motivated and they are just not looking in to it, which i assume, but am confident is not the case. When an allegation of a hate crime is made it's VERY serious (as i said i believe all crimes are serious and we should level the playing field anyway), more time and effort will be put in to investigate IN DETAIL the accusations. If there was any case this would be happening.
3) IF they believe after INVESTIGATION (not a newspaper report or circumstantial evidence) if they think their is a case and they can get a conviction, it will go to court as a hate crime.
4) Then lawyers get to make a case and a JUDGE makes the decision (not people on message board, who have little or no information).

I think the one thing that is shown in this thread is people have no trust in the legal system and trust their own instincts more than a real, detailed investigation. Our legal system is not perfect, but it's better than what some people in this thread seem to think.

And here is a good example of that process in work. A white man getting the 'racially motivated' part of the crime dropped, even though he used the word '******'. Because thats simply does not make it a hate crime.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/racism/Story/0,2763,438720,00.html

Also there is quiet a bit of talk about not being able to talk about these issues. Could you let me know who is stifling your freedom of speech on this subject and i will take that cause up. I don't see the moderators stopping you and i find that these (and many other) discussions can be freely had in many different places. Everybody's opinions on these threads are equal, and hopefully people will see sense when it is put in front of them. Just because somebody asks questions that you cannot answer or don't have a comeback for doesn't mean somebody is stifling your opinions. If you ideas are strong enough that (hopefully) will show through. There is no national discussion because the only people who are vocal about that do not understand that we have a perfectly good system. We simply do not need debate because each case must be dealt with on an individual basis (using the current system). We either continue to deal with them on a case by case basis or we scrap the whole idea of hate crime. To suggest that we can say any <insert ethnicity, race or religion here> attacking a <insert ethnicity, race or religion here> is a hate crime is simply stupid.

Ok fair point B2B but my debate has been from the start that this could have been school rivalry and then told I know the real reason for this girl being attacked.
Then suddenly i'm talking a load of rubbish.
All i'm saying is until the Police come out with the facts then the reason for the attack is not confirmed.
The young girl was attacked by Asian youths, that does not make it a racial attack and thats the point i wanted to put across, then just because the authur of this thread disagreed he made it a racial thread instead of the actuall debate about hhis daughters welfare which was the important part of this thread.

Cycleracer without reading back through the thread i don't think my comments were aimed at you :) I totally agree with what you just said.

[i]just because the authur of this thread disagreed he made it a racial thread instead of the actuall debate about hhis daughters welfare which was the important part of this thread. [/B]

Personally, I think this thread should now be removed (not that any one will listen) as the author is no longer on the Forum and cannot defend his opinions or reply to any of these posts.

As far as I know billyblade is still a fully registered user and he hasn't contacted me to the contrary....

:confused:

As for the purpose of his post being a wide-up : yes I agree fully that's what it is :rolleyes:

Back2Basics, you're nearly right about the definition of a race hate crime. I believe it is classed as a race hate crime if it is "perceived to be racist by the victim or by any other person'". This means that the police can decide to class it as a race hate crime even if the victim doesn't report it as such.

My point remains - IMO, we are very quick to jump to the 'racist conclusion' when it is a white on black crime and not the other way around. I think this happens because people in power are desperate to be seen to be doing and saying the right things because any hint of a racist slur could ruin their career. This is an observation about our (ruling) society in general - not about a particular race(s).

I don't know whether the attack we are discussed here was racist or not. I simply put forward the opinion that had the racial roles been reversed then I think it would have been investigated by the police as a racist crime. I suggest that this sort of discrepancy is counter-productive in the fight against racism and therefore question what the point is in labelling certain crimes in this way.

B2B, you say that in the "real world" an attack by someone from one race on another is not automatically classed as racist - but look at the case you linked to. The automatic assumption of the police was to classify and prosecute the case as racially motivated. This is exactly my point. People in authority seem to feel a pressure to be seen to be politically correct and do not judge each case on its merits.

Personally, I'm not sure of the relevance of classifying cases as racially motivated. Is a mindless, unproved attack on someone more serious if the motive was racial than if it was because the other person supported a different football team or went to a different school?

Some people may get in a fight and racially abusive comments could be thrown each others way if the opposing sides were of different ethnic origin. This doesn't mean they have a deep seated racial hatred towards an entire race of people - its just a term to insult the person, as would pointing out if they are fat, short, tall, thick, ugly, etc. In a case of a fight where racist terms may be exchanged, it should not constitute a racially motivated attack, because the racist term was used as an insult in the heat of the moment and the fight was not started for that reason.

I went to meadowhead and we used to have scraps with newfield. But i must say that now you cant walk lowedges and you need to keep an eye over your shoulder.
What about the ins and outs of this scuffle between the kids? How does anyone know that i wasnt 6 of one and half a dozen of the other??? People are too keen to jump on the Chubby Brown racist bandwagon these days.

Originally posted by t020
Some people may get in a fight and racially abusive comments could be thrown each others way if the opposing sides were of different ethnic origin. This doesn't mean they have a deep seated racial hatred towards an entire race of people - its just a term to insult the person, as would pointing out if they are fat, short, tall, thick, ugly, etc. In a case of a fight where racist terms may be exchanged, it should not constitute a racially motivated attack, because the racist term was used as an insult in the heat of the moment and the fight was not started for that reason. Absolutely, I fully agree but what Billyblade did say and i fully support was that if the tables were turned white on black it would not be seen as a racial attack which brings Zammo's last posting a factual statement.

Zamo yes i know it's anybody i think i even put that in the post, if i didn't well sorry. But the police MUST look in to ANY crime where race was mentioned by anybody. That is why in the link they looked in to it, it wasn't an assumption it was a procedure that they have to follow. The reason we have these procedures is to stop the racist elements in the police force from being able to use their power to brush over it.

Your very wrong i am sorry, they do not feel any pressure (political or otherwise) we have rules and regulation in place to stop that from happening. And that is why they are in place.

Zamo start backing up your claims, you need to start taking some responsibility for the inaccuracies in your post. Your opinions are very dangerous because you can put them across eloquently. This is not a subject for opinions or pub talk. I hope Sheffieldforum have the responsibility to make sure that people can not get away with unsubstantiated claims that clearly could leave people with the wrong information on a subject where it does matter to have the right info.

What you appear tyo be saying is that if a white person said reported to the police that he thought it was racially motivated, that the police would not give that claim as much weight and just not look in to it. That's total clap trap.

Zamo if i post a link showing you the law, people won't read it. They will come to their own conclusion, based on there existing prejudices. That is why you must make sure your posts are accurate, because people may take you posts as fact. So there is responsibility for people who are taking part in reasoned debate (as you do). This is how these weird justification we read every day here are spread. Word of mouth, people read something, think oh yeah that backs up my view point and use it.

Your post isn't accurate and you cannot back it up. It's an opinion on a subject where there are clearly defined rules for what must happen. Nobody has a choice, there must be an investigation as the system works now. And that is perfectly illustrated by Cycelracer, one minute he says one thing, then he reads you post and suddenly it's fact. When you didn't even post anything that was fact (but at least you made it clear it was IMO).

Cycle racer you just going between two argument! Your opinion seems to change with ever post! Explain to us how it makes it factual? They are OBLIGED to look in to EVERY claim, even if it's a white person making that claim.

Maybe in theory, but in reality the police don't give a toss.