After todays result, 7pts behind with 12 games left. I just cant see Man Utd dropping 7pts in the last 1/4 of the season.

They were never going to win it to start with.

Just finishing in a Champions League place is a successful season by Liverpool's standards.

They were never going to win it to start with.

Agreed- they havn't got the quality in there squad to win it this season OR dare i say it- the bottle.

They never had it to lose! I heard that the commentators on Five Live yesterday were laughing at Lucas - which is no surprise, just astonishing he keeps making the team sheet.

Serves em right for not making the most of a bloody good player in Robbie Keane and then flogging him

I think the chances are slim now. I think the Keane thing came down to fights between Benitez and the owners over who was in charge of signing players - it does feel like we wasted the chance with Keane and, yes, why have we still got Lucas???

Without Gerrard and Torres playing every game - as well as Alonso - we don't look very scary I'm afraid.:(

They never had it to lose! I heard that the commentators on Five Live yesterday were laughing at Lucas - which is no surprise, just astonishing he keeps making the team sheet.

I know- its amazing how one man can have such a global hit with hanson and "mmmm-bop" and still have the time to play football!!

astonishing!

Like Jeerumba said, Liverpool are nothing without Gerrard, Torres and Alonso. Man Utd look like the only squad that has enough depth to field different teams each game and still look successful.

-Michael

The other problem for Liverpool is that - unlike Man Utd or even Everton - they don't have any promising youngsters coming through and instead rely on buying in foreign imports. Too many of their squad are what Alan Sugar famously referred to as "Carlos Kickaballs"; namely mercenary players who come in on big wages but have little feeling for the club or its traditions. Not so long back there'd be a local hero coming through the ranks such as Fowler or Owen, but it doesn;t seem to happen any more.

I'm no fan of Man Utd but you've got to admire the fact that Ferguson's always willing to give young players an opportunity and this fosters a sense of loyalty that doesn't seem to exist amongst the other big clubs.

I think Beneath-uz has got to take his share of the blame this season as well.

He has acted like a spoilt child over the last couple of years, and this business with his contract could well be the end of him I reckon.

As a neutral I would have loved to see Liverpool win the Premier League but I always felt their chances were slim. Then the Mad Spaniard opens his gob which - as if it were needed - gave an even bigger incentive for Manchester United to crank it up a gear and in due course, replace them as leaders.

For me, this is still a poor Liverpool side. I honestly feel that if Gerrard were to up sticks they'd plummet down the table. They seem predictable to me and the standard of football is laughable when compared to that of the 1970s and 80s.

Manchester United on the other hand - as Basil rightly points out - have youth coming through and from what I've seen (on TV) they've some very promising youngsters. But above all that, they're great to watch and the blend of experience - Giggs and Scholes are still magnificent players - and youth makes them by far the most complete footballing side in the league (and Arsenal seem to have moved in the opposite direction).

Liverpool will finish third or fourth but I think they're still a long way off having any real prospect of winning the Premier League.

As a neutral I would have loved to see Liverpool win the Premier League.
Why? What's there for a neutral to like about Liverpool?

At least the likes of Arsenal and Villa generally give it a go and actually set out to try to win games. Liverpool on the other hand seem set up to not lose and play two DMs at home against even the weakest of sides and play horribly dull anti-football unless they happen to go behind.

Liverpool will never win the title while benitez is there, he is too negative a manager. Also there are players he still plays in the team nowhere near as good as robbie keane

Liverpool will never win the title while benitez is there, he is too negative a manager. Also there are players he still plays in the team nowhere near as good as robbie keane
I certainly hope not anyway, he seems far more concerned about not losing that trying to win and has actually come straight out and said as much.

This works just fine in cup competitions (which he obviously has a good record with for Liverpool) but not so well in a league competition where a win and a loss is better than two draws.

Wheres LFCMADPAUL when you need him.

Liverpool hadn't just lost the title when you started this thread no. They lost it long before that.
The only people pretending otherwise seemed to be Liverpool fans. They probably never realised due to watching and talking about Man Utd so much.

Liverpool hadn't just lost the title when you started this thread no. They lost it long before that.
The only people pretending otherwise seemed to be Liverpool fans.
Ok then Mr Bandwagon, show me a post where a Liverpool fan on here has said "Liverpool will win the league"!

I (a BIG Liverpool fan) have always said that Liverpool WON'T win the league! We simply are not good enough. Man Utd however are like a machine at the minute, and if they don't win the league, i'll post a pic of myself naked, holding an Everton shirt to my mouth with my lips puckered!

Do us a favour, don't just say that Liverpool fans always claim that "we will win the league", because quite frankly, there is hardly a Liverpool fan I know that actually believes that this is the case!

Like Jeerumba said, Liverpool are nothing without Gerrard, Torres and Alonso. Man Utd look like the only squad that has enough depth to field different teams each game and still look successful.
Oh really? Well then could you please explain these FACTS that were stated in an article written recently, when this exact theory was spewed out by another 'fan' that didn't have a clue:

I ask people to go check Manchester United's results without Ronaldo and Rooney. And again, I ask people to see how many games Liverpool have won without Torres and Gerrard this season.

If you can't check, let me do it for you: United lost five league games last season. Rooney missed four of them, Ronaldo missed three, and they did not play together in any of those defeats. Of these opponents, only Chelsea were a team in the top eight, so it's not skewed by difficult games.

In the 12 league matches Rooney did not start, United's accrued a 69-point average when extrapolated over 38 games, as opposed to the 87 they actually racked up. In the seven games Ronaldo did not start, the average would have made an even worse total: 65 points. Or the tally that saw Everton finish 5th.

Shockingly, in the four games in which neither started –– against Manchester City, Bolton, Sunderland and Spurs (again, no giants, but admittedly one derby) –– they dropped half of the available points: meaning an average of 57 if extrapolated over 38 games. Or equivalent to finishing 8th, like Portsmouth.

(Also, of the three league games Ronaldo missed at the start of this season, United dropped five points, which is the form of a mid-table side.)

Yes, United have other good players all over the pitch, but do these facts not suggest that they are overly reliant on their best two attacking players?

While United have coped well in the last few games without Rooney, without either him and/or Ronaldo on a regular basis, the form book suggests that they are not a title-winning side. Indeed, far from it.

(Of course, if United did not have these players on a very regular basis, or indeed at all, they'd try to buy similar replacements; just as Liverpool obviously would in the case of Torres and Gerrard.)

Now look at Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard this season.

Gerrard has failed to start four league games –– Villa, United, Fulham and Portsmouth. Two of those are clearly very tough fixtures, against top-three sides. Two were at home, two away. And yet Liverpool's record is won two, drawn two. Over 38 league games, that is worth an impressive 76 points.

Due to injury, Torres has failed to start no fewer than 15 league games. These resulted in ten wins, four draws and just one defeat. Over a 38 game season, that ratio would earn an incredible 86 points. That is a title-winning tally; last year United got 87, but needed only 86.

Perhaps due to Torres playing at least half a dozen games when lacking sharpness, Liverpool have actually fared better without him; with him starting, the Reds have won five and drawn five, which is 76 points in terms of form over 38 games. (Though he did win the weekend's game from the bench.)

It gets even more amazing. In each of the two league games Liverpool started without both Torres and Gerrard, the Reds won: against United and Pompey. It's only two games, of course, but it's a 100% record. Or 114 points over the course of a season! (Silly, I know, when based on such a small sample, but a 100% record is a 100% record.)

Yes, these are statistics – but then league tables are formed from similar statistics relating to win, lose or draw, which are the most important kind. And yes, United's figures are based on last season (when they won the title) and Liverpool's this season (as they challenge for it). Even so, it's valid.

But even I was shocked at how remarkably disparate the win/lose/draw statistics were. I'm no genius; I just sat down and bothered to check some team sheets and calculate some figures, rather than just make ignorant assumptions like the McPundits.

So why are Liverpool the team perceived to rely on just two players? Why does someone like Tim Sherwood say that United don't rely on their key men and Liverpool do?

Why isn't the truth –– that United cannot seem to cope very well without Ronaldo, and certainly not well at all without both him and Rooney –– more well known?

Why isn't Rafa praised for getting so many great results without his key men this season, rather than just constantly criticised?

Why isn't Ferguson accused of being lucky or relying on Rooney and Ronaldo to get him out of trouble?

I'll leave you (and anyone in the media who reads this) to draw your own conclusions. But based on these figures, if I were Alex Ferguson and United lost Rooney and Ronaldo to serious injury, I'd be very worried.

So, what do people make of these facts? Can the myth that surfaces day after day, week after week, finaly be layed to rest?

I very much doubt it!

Ok then Mr Bandwagon, show me a post where a Liverpool fan on here has said "Liverpool will win the league"!

I (a BIG Liverpool fan) have always said that Liverpool WON'T win the league! We simply are not good enough. Man Utd however are like a machine at the minute, and if they don't win the league, i'll post a pic of myself naked, holding an Everton shirt to my mouth with my lips puckered!

Do us a favour, don't just say that Liverpool fans always claim that "we will win the league", because quite frankly, there is hardly a Liverpool fan I know that actually believes that this is the case!

Calm down Mr.... Bandwagon? Which bandwagon would that be?

I have me thoughts towards LFC fans. They're mainly closet man Utd fans. If we were to go through your post count i suspect i would be proven right.

As for trawling through every post on here about LFC winning the league. I CBA at this hour but i might be tempted if you rise to the occasion ;)

I certainly hope not anyway, he seems far more concerned about not losing that trying to win.
Your quite right Pleck, but this tactic works wonders in Cup Competitions....
This works just fine in cup competitions (which he obviously has a good record with for Liverpool) but not so well in a league competition
Except in the case of 'Rafa with Valencia', where he infact won TWO league titles in three years against teams such as Real Madrid and Barcelona! And please don't spout no shi*e about the two not being themselves blah blah blah etc etc etc...... the fact is Rafa IS capable of winning League titles! The exception in this case (Liverpool's) is that Rafa is now up against Manchester Utd etc, which over a full season, is always going to be a MASSIVE achievement on his part. I'm not sure there is any manager in the world who could come in now and make Liverpool champions? So why should Rafa be expected too? He has improved Liverpool immensely as a squad. He has also made them highly feared in Europe aswell as gradually closed the gap (regards gap in points) between ourselves and the top of the league.

Good night :rolleyes:

As a neutral I would have loved to see Liverpool win the Premier League
To which Pleck responds:
Why? What's there for a neutral to like about Liverpool?
For god's sake Pleck, can't anyone have an opinion or a gut feeling without you having to break it down into a matter for your disprovel?

The lad would love to see Liverpool win the league!!!! Deal with it!

Wheres LFCMADPAUL when you need him.
I'm here mi old fruit :D Just thought i'd add my two pennorths worths :hihi:

As for trawling through every post on here about LFC winning the league. I CBA at this hour but i might be tempted if you rise to the occasion ;)
Go on then, get trawling.

I for one have always said that Liverpool will struggle to win the league, mainly because of poor home draws!

Oh and by the way...... I always RISE to the occasion :hihi:

Couldnt be bothered reading any of the the thread, I skimmed through but too much quantity no quality etc, but to answer the OP,

Liverpool 3rd, Nuff said.

Couldnt be bothered reading any of the the thread, I skimmed through but too much quantity no quality etc, but to answer the OP,

Liverpool 3rd, Nuff said.

I think they'll be satisfied with that.

What's there for a neutral to like about Liverpool?

Very little. Their football is generally dour unless Liverpool are behind.

I wanted Liverpool to mount a title challenge for the sake of competition at the top, but Benitez' occasionally bizarre tactics and the clubs laughable dealings with transfers suggest they are ill equipped to win the league.

I really can't see them winning the league any time soon, there are too many power struggles to form a cohesive base for any manager. Anfield is a circus at the moment.

I always enjoy Benitez' rants about how much money other clubs spend on players, when he forgets the £200m he's spent on utter garbage. (sorry, £175m - Torres was worth the money in fairness)

Bookies have just slashed odds on Rafa leaving.

Result for Pool fans if he goes.

Bookies have just slashed odds on Rafa leaving.

Result for Pool fans if he goes.

I heard strong rumours that he was going to resign on Sunday night, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Bookies have just slashed odds on Rafa leaving.

Result for Pool fans if he goes.
Well that depends, on whether Jose Mourinho does a good job when he takes over the reigns :D

Well that depends, on whether Jose Mourinho does a good job when he takes over the reigns :D

The rumour I heard last Sunday was that Frank Rikard would take over.

Well that depends, on whether Jose Mourinho does a good job when he takes over the reigns :D

Aye Mourinho would slot in well, one ultra defensive manager in for another.

Paisley and Shankly must be spinning round in their boxes like mad at the moment.

Ok then Mr Bandwagon, show me a post where a Liverpool fan on here has said "Liverpool will win the league"!

I (a BIG Liverpool fan) have always said that Liverpool WON'T win the league! We simply are not good enough. Man Utd however are like a machine at the minute, and if they don't win the league, i'll post a pic of myself naked, holding an Everton shirt to my mouth with my lips puckered!

Do us a favour, don't just say that Liverpool fans always claim that "we will win the league", because quite frankly, there is hardly a Liverpool fan I know that actually believes that this is the case!

Christ i hope Man Utd do win the league:hihi:

Christ i hope Man Utd do win the league:hihi:

You want to see Paul naked? :\

Hills suspend betting on Benitez to be 'next to go'.

http://www.bettingzone.co.uk/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=betting/09/02/25/manual_114128.html

Oh really? Well then could you please explain these FACTS that were stated in an article written recently, when this exact theory was spewed out by another 'fan' that didn't have a clue:

I ask people to go check Manchester United's results without Ronaldo and Rooney. And again, I ask people to see how many games Liverpool have won without Torres and Gerrard this season.

If you can't check, let me do it for you: United lost five league games last season. Rooney missed four of them, Ronaldo missed three, and they did not play together in any of those defeats. Of these opponents, only Chelsea were a team in the top eight, so it's not skewed by difficult games.

In the 12 league matches Rooney did not start, United's accrued a 69-point average when extrapolated over 38 games, as opposed to the 87 they actually racked up. In the seven games Ronaldo did not start, the average would have made an even worse total: 65 points. Or the tally that saw Everton finish 5th.

Shockingly, in the four games in which neither started –– against Manchester City, Bolton, Sunderland and Spurs (again, no giants, but admittedly one derby) –– they dropped half of the available points: meaning an average of 57 if extrapolated over 38 games. Or equivalent to finishing 8th, like Portsmouth.

(Also, of the three league games Ronaldo missed at the start of this season, United dropped five points, which is the form of a mid-table side.)

Yes, United have other good players all over the pitch, but do these facts not suggest that they are overly reliant on their best two attacking players?

While United have coped well in the last few games without Rooney, without either him and/or Ronaldo on a regular basis, the form book suggests that they are not a title-winning side. Indeed, far from it.

(Of course, if United did not have these players on a very regular basis, or indeed at all, they'd try to buy similar replacements; just as Liverpool obviously would in the case of Torres and Gerrard.)

Now look at Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard this season.

Gerrard has failed to start four league games –– Villa, United, Fulham and Portsmouth. Two of those are clearly very tough fixtures, against top-three sides. Two were at home, two away. And yet Liverpool's record is won two, drawn two. Over 38 league games, that is worth an impressive 76 points.

Due to injury, Torres has failed to start no fewer than 15 league games. These resulted in ten wins, four draws and just one defeat. Over a 38 game season, that ratio would earn an incredible 86 points. That is a title-winning tally; last year United got 87, but needed only 86.

Perhaps due to Torres playing at least half a dozen games when lacking sharpness, Liverpool have actually fared better without him; with him starting, the Reds have won five and drawn five, which is 76 points in terms of form over 38 games. (Though he did win the weekend's game from the bench.)

It gets even more amazing. In each of the two league games Liverpool started without both Torres and Gerrard, the Reds won: against United and Pompey. It's only two games, of course, but it's a 100% record. Or 114 points over the course of a season! (Silly, I know, when based on such a small sample, but a 100% record is a 100% record.)

Yes, these are statistics – but then league tables are formed from similar statistics relating to win, lose or draw, which are the most important kind. And yes, United's figures are based on last season (when they won the title) and Liverpool's this season (as they challenge for it). Even so, it's valid.

But even I was shocked at how remarkably disparate the win/lose/draw statistics were. I'm no genius; I just sat down and bothered to check some team sheets and calculate some figures, rather than just make ignorant assumptions like the McPundits.

So why are Liverpool the team perceived to rely on just two players? Why does someone like Tim Sherwood say that United don't rely on their key men and Liverpool do?

Why isn't the truth –– that United cannot seem to cope very well without Ronaldo, and certainly not well at all without both him and Rooney –– more well known?

Why isn't Rafa praised for getting so many great results without his key men this season, rather than just constantly criticised?

Why isn't Ferguson accused of being lucky or relying on Rooney and Ronaldo to get him out of trouble?

I'll leave you (and anyone in the media who reads this) to draw your own conclusions. But based on these figures, if I were Alex Ferguson and United lost Rooney and Ronaldo to serious injury, I'd be very worried.

So, what do people make of these facts? Can the myth that surfaces day after day, week after week, finaly be layed to rest?

I very much doubt it!

and breath

Hills suspend betting on Benitez to be 'next to go'.

http://www.bettingzone.co.uk/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=betting/09/02/25/manual_114128.html

Again we dominate a game to the extent of total, but yet again find ourselves behind. This is becoming a feature of our game that is the sole reason we are about as close to winning the title as Aston Villa are (in terms of potential, not points).

Skirtel again at fault for the goal (as he was against Everton etc etc) because he simply failed to head the ball away, instead choosing to close his eyes and miss the ball completely. Whoever it was that said Skirtel was a better player than Agger, seriously has to have a good look at how they view a defenders qualities!

Rafa is again up to his old tricks with regards rotation, deciding to drop Yossi Benayoun to the bench when he is clearly our most in-form player. Granted Yossi played against Milan a few days ago, but so did Kuyt! Riera has also been dropped by Rafa who instead decides to play a relatively un-proven youngster. What is going on here? We have 12 premiership games left but Rafa still thinks rest is the most important aspect, yet again. Maybe he shouldn't sign this new contract for the good of our club?

Oh well, atleast if we lose this game against the most off-form premiership team, it will end all this pathetic talk of a title challenge! I for one am becoming increasingly bored with our negative, boring, paths of play and I don't think it would such a bad thing if Rafa did actually decide to leave, and if I hear one more person say "the league isn't over yet" i'll f******* scream because it is over, well and trully over, and the sooner some of our supporters realise this, the better (applies more to fans on other football forums, as hardly anyone on here supports or even likes Liverpool lol).

I think Liverpools problems as well as arsenals and to some extent chelsea is to many foreigners in the team. When you look at am man of the match, how many times over a season is it not gerrard. Whilst rver you have players who have no affinity to the club they play for and loyalty only to their backpocket, you will win nothing. Man United have a base of home bred players and thats why they will win the league and its light years away for liverpool. Apart from that Benitez is too safety concious and does not have the attacking options available to his self like Man United do.

Rafa is again up to his old tricks with regards rotation, deciding to drop Yossi Benayoun to the bench when he is clearly our most in-form player. Granted Yossi played against Milan a few days ago, but so did Kuyt!

Impressed by Kuyt's dummy in front of an open goal yesterday. How come he gets in the starting line up so often - has Rafa adopted him or something?

They lost the title when they drew twice against Stoke.

Except in the case of 'Rafa with Valencia', where he infact won TWO league titles in three years against teams such as Real Madrid and Barcelona! And please don't spout no shi*e about the two not being themselves blah blah blah etc etc etc...... the fact is Rafa IS capable of winning League titles! The exception in this case (Liverpool's) is that Rafa is now up against Manchester Utd etc, which over a full season, is always going to be a MASSIVE achievement on his part. I'm not sure there is any manager in the world who could come in now and make Liverpool champions? So why should Rafa be expected too? He has improved Liverpool immensely as a squad. He has also made them highly feared in Europe aswell as gradually closed the gap (regards gap in points) between ourselves and the top of the league.

Good night :rolleyes:
Can't be bothered to respond to this so I'll just let you rebut yourself:

Rafa is again up to his old tricks with regards rotation, deciding to drop Yossi Benayoun to the bench when he is clearly our most in-form player. Granted Yossi played against Milan a few days ago, but so did Kuyt! Riera has also been dropped by Rafa who instead decides to play a relatively un-proven youngster. What is going on here? We have 12 premiership games left but Rafa still thinks rest is the most important aspect, yet again. Maybe he shouldn't sign this new contract for the good of our club?

Oh well, atleast if we lose this game against the most off-form premiership team, it will end all this pathetic talk of a title challenge! I for one am becoming increasingly bored with our negative, boring, paths of play and I don't think it would such a bad thing if Rafa did actually decide to leave, and if I hear one more person say "the league isn't over yet" i'll f******* scream because it is over, well and trully over, and the sooner some of our supporters realise this, the better (applies more to fans on other football forums, as hardly anyone on here supports or even likes Liverpool lol).
What a difference a few days make, it takes a special kind of talent (and personality) to so comprehensively contradict yourself on the very same page of a thread. One moment angrily ranting at me for daring to point out how Rafa's negativity is costing Liverpool and then one game latter bitterly complaining about Liverpool's 'negative, boring, paths of play' :D

When Torres was injured at start that when I knew they'ds lost innit

Why? What's there for a neutral to like about Liverpool?

At least the likes of Arsenal and Villa generally give it a go and actually set out to try to win games. Liverpool on the other hand seem set up to not lose and play two DMs at home against even the weakest of sides and play horribly dull anti-football unless they happen to go behind.
All that hey Pleck and yet Liverpool are the Premiership top scorers :D Done so without their most prolific goalscorer for much of the season!

If hammering Real Madrid, Manchester Utd (twice), Aston Villa and Chelsea (twice) makes us 'horribly dull' playing 'anti-football'.......... that will do for me!

We have finally hit form and if Liverpool play this way from now untill the end of the season..... they will be champions :thumbsup:

I (a BIG Liverpool fan) have always said that Liverpool WON'T win the league! We simply are not good enough. Man Utd however are like a machine at the minute, and if they don't win the league, i'll post a pic of myself naked, holding an Everton shirt to my mouth with my lips puckered!



I do hope that you've not forgotten this post from a month or so ago, Paul ......:P

I do hope that you've not forgotten this post from a month or so ago, Paul ......:P
:wow: Oh no! Yeah i had forgot, thanks Basil :hihi:

However I do still think Utd will win the league. It's just nice to see Liverpool play like they mean business and actually giving Utd something to worry about :thumbsup:

We have finally hit form and if Liverpool play this way from now untill the end of the season..... they will be champions :thumbsup:Unless Man Utd win 8 out of their 9 remaining games of course. ;)

Personally I'd like your boys to sneak it. :thumbsup:

I think either Liverpool or ManU will win the premiership. Chelsea has only a very little chance. The Champions League will be interesting, too. Still 4 English teams in the competition.

Everyone just calm down. Liverpool will drop points this season.
No shadow of doubt. And you can bet it won't be against Arsenal, but against someone far more lowly, in a game everyone is expecting them to win.

Too right they was never goig to win it!

Everyone just calm down. Liverpool will drop points this season.
No shadow of doubt. And you can bet it won't be against Arsenal, but against someone far more lowly, in a game everyone is expecting them to win.
Just like when everyone expected Utd to beat Fulham perhaps?

With key players suspended (Rooney, Scholes and Vidic), and the injury to Berbatov, the upcoming games against Villa, Man City and Arsenal are not going to be easy for Utd, especially now that they seem to have lost confidence and form!

Liverpool however have an easier run-in and are playing their best football of the season, with key players such as Torres being fresh after missing half the season through injury.

This could be close Guddy and Liverpool are getting closer ;)

As soon as Rafa drops Torres before the Chelsea matches they'll drop points.

Only trouble is, United will as well.

Just like when everyone expected Utd to beat Fulham perhaps?

With key players suspended (Rooney, Scholes and Vidic), and the injury to Berbatov, the upcoming games against Villa, Man City and Arsenal are not going to be easy for Utd, especially now that they seem to have lost confidence and form!

Liverpool however have an easier run-in and are playing their best football of the season, with key players such as Torres being fresh after missing half the season through injury.

This could be close Guddy and Liverpool are getting closer ;)

Anyone with title winning experience (I discount Pool fans younger than 20) knows that the games you need to watch out for are against teams like Wigan, West Ham etc, not necessarily those against the big clubs.

Anyone with title winning experience (I discount Pool fans younger than 20) knows that the games you need to watch out for are against teams like Wigan, West Ham etc, not necessarily those against the big clubs.
I agree totally mate. Liverpool though have given themselves a chance at least and like i've said before, it's just nice to be involved in a proper title chase. Utd don't have the best record against Arsenal and Man City, plus there is the games (like the ones you mentioned) where Utd could potentially find it hard. Liverpool seem to have hit form just at the right time though whereas Utd seem to be having a slight 'blip'.

The question is, will Utd drop enough points to let Liverpool back in? and can Liverpool take full advantage should they do so?

On current form i'd say yes we can but knowing Liverpool, i'm not so sure.

It's all good exciting stuff though and what a game at Old Trafford bye the way ;)

like heck we have we still in especally after kicking man utds ass's 4-1:hihi::hihi:
then we hammer the villians 5-0:hihi::hihi:

man u were lucky on sunday where did they get 5mins ex time from

come on you reds the mighty pool can still do it

we need others teams to do us a favour

man u were lucky on sunday where did they get 5mins ex time from

But they only needed 2 extra mins to win it.

Your lot needed 3.

The question is now do Liverpool have the squad to challenge for both the Premier League and the Champions league? I think that the push for the Premier league may cost them against Chelsea.

I think this tie with Chelsea will take it out of Liverpool.

Torres must be due another ankle injury bless him, and Gerrard is lost against a decent defence without Torres drawing centre halves out of position for him, so I can see them dropping points in the league.

man u were lucky on sunday where did they get 5mins ex time from

I saw the ref point to his watch twice in the last half hour or so to warn Aston villa he was going to add on time because of timewasting. One of the warnings was for Milner doing a sleepwalk when he was substituted. Two timewasting warnings mean 1 minute for each plus the normal 2 to 4 minutes that are added on. Thats where the 5 minutes came from.

Gerrard is lost against a decent defence without Torres drawing centre halves out of position for him
Yeah cos Gerrard has never scored goals without Torres in the team, and he always looks lost against good defences doesn't he, really................. what a pathetic statement :loopy:

he always looks lost against good defences doesn't he :loopy:

He has done for as long as I can remember.

I know it must hurt, but that's why he's only talked about in the second tier of world midfielders.

There's a top tier of the last 10 or so years, including Davids, Scholes, Gattuso, Pirlo, Makalele, Vieira and others, and then there's the second group: Lampard, Gerrard, Hargreaves, Carrick, Xavi and similar.

You have to remember, it wasn't so long ago that people wondered whether Gerrard should even be in the England team, so forgive me if I don't buy the hype we've been subjected to in the last 3 weeks or so.

Yeah cos Gerrard has never scored goals without Torres in the team, and he always looks lost against good defences doesn't he, really................. what a pathetic statement :loopy:

I think the fact Gerrard has never done it in an England shirt speaks volumes.

He's a good PL player but not cut out for the international scene.

He has done for as long as I can remember.

I know it must hurt, but that's why he's only talked about in the second tier of world midfielders.
That's rubbish and you know it. Gerrard is spoke about as being one of the best, if not the best, players on the planet by nearly all football experts, ex-players, players and fans around the world. Zidane and Capello (better judges than you or me) to name just two:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/4984191/Liverpools-Steven-Gerrard-hailed-as-worlds-best-player-by-Zinedine-Zidane.html
http://www.espnstar.com/football/other-football/news/detail/item232710/Capello:-Gerrard-one-of-world's-best/

The article above also goes some way to explain the reason why Gerrard may not have been as affective when playing for England as when he plays for Liverpool - Playing out of positiion!

Gerrards own personal honours list also shows that he is rated by the world governing bodies, the P.F.A, fellow professionals etc also, as being up there with the very best of them: (Relevent honours highlighted)

Individual

* PFA Young Player of the Year: 2000–01[21]
* UEFA Club Footballer of the Year: 2004–05
* UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: 2004–05
* FIFA Club World Championship Silver Ball: 2005
* PFA Players' Player of the Year: 2005–06[21]
* FA Premier League Player of the Month: March 2001, March 2003, December 2004, April 2006, March 2009
* FA Cup Final Man of the Match: 2005–06
* FIFPro World XI: 2006–07, 2007–08
* UEFA Team of the Year: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2006–07
* PFA Team of the Year: 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08

Gerrard is also a leading candidate this year for World Player Of The Year.

Also, saying Gerrard struggles against good defences is absolute nonsense, considering Gerrard has scored 20+ goals in each season for the past 4-5 years, not to mention the amount of assists he has racked up in this time.

To say Steven Gerrard is rated in the 'second tier' of midfielders ha ha, well, shows your knowledge of football really, or should i say, lack of it!

That's rubbish and you know it. Gerrard is spoke about as being one of the best, if not the best, players on the planet by nearly all football experts, ex-players, players and fans around the world. Zidane and Capello (better judges than you or me) to name just two:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/4984191/Liverpools-Steven-Gerrard-hailed-as-worlds-best-player-by-Zinedine-Zidane.html
http://www.espnstar.com/football/other-football/news/detail/item232710/Capello:-Gerrard-one-of-world's-best/

The article above also goes some way to explain the reason why Gerrard may not have been as affective when playing for England as when he plays for Liverpool - Playing out of positiion!

Gerrards own personal honours list also shows that he is rated by the world governing bodies, the P.F.A, fellow professionals etc also, as being up there with the very best of them: (Relevent honours highlighted)

Individual

* PFA Young Player of the Year: 2000–01[21]
* UEFA Club Footballer of the Year: 2004–05
* UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: 2004–05
* FIFA Club World Championship Silver Ball: 2005
* PFA Players' Player of the Year: 2005–06[21]
* FA Premier League Player of the Month: March 2001, March 2003, December 2004, April 2006, March 2009
* FA Cup Final Man of the Match: 2005–06
* FIFPro World XI: 2006–07, 2007–08
* UEFA Team of the Year: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2006–07
* PFA Team of the Year: 2000–01, 2003–04, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08

Gerrard is also a leading candidate this year for World Player Of The Year.

Also, saying Gerrard struggles against good defences is absolute nonsense, considering Gerrard has scored 20+ goals in each season for the past 4-5 years, not to mention the amount of assists he has racked up in this time.

To say Steven Gerrard is rated in the 'second tier' of midfielders ha ha, well, shows your knowledge of football really, or should i say, lack of it!


We can all lob quotes up, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. At the end of the day, I don't think I'm alone in rating little Stevie as a second tier midfielder.

Micah Richards : "He's always in the right position, always seems to be at the end of the box when the ball drops in. The complete midfielder - when he's fit, he's the best. Some go missing but he's in the right place at the right time. He's my favourite player of all-time, unbelievable. If you give him a chance it's a goal, isn't it?"

Eidur Gudjohnsen : "I'm more an admirer of Paul Scholes than I am of Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, but he has 10 other great players around him every week...Scholes is one of the most complete footballers I've ever seen. His one-touch play is phenomenal. Whenever I have played against him, I never felt I could get close to him."

Edgar Davids : ""Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes."

Edgar Davids : "I'm not the best, Paul Scholes is."

Tony Adams : "I really rate Paul Scholes, because he hasn't got the high profile of many of the Manchester United players, he doesn't get too much attention, but he is one very good player. He is an intelligent player, he works hard and he scores some great goals. He is not flamboyant and is a quiet lad off the pitch but he is a tremendous asset to Manchester United and to England. He has already got my vote as player of the year."

Cesc Fabregas : "He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League."

Patrick Vieira : "The player in the Premiership I admire most? Easy - Scholes."

Thierry Henry : "I can't understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it's because he doesn't seek the limelight like some of the other 'stars'."

Zinedine Zidane : "My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder."

Zinedine Zidane : "Scholes is undoubtedly the best midfielder of his generation."


Marcello Lippi : "Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team - that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. Scholes is a player I have always liked, because he combines great talent and technical ability with mobility, determination and a superb shot. He is an all-round midfielder who possesses character and quality in abundance. In my opinion, he's been one of the most important players for United under Sir Alex."


Laurent Blanc : "Scholes is the best English player. Intelligence, technique, strength... all the attributes are there. At Manchester United I saw what he could do on the training field. Phew!"

"People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is, For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed.If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice. Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level. His reading of the game is unsurpassed.He has an eye for a pass, for what the play or the game needs at that precise moment, that I have never seen anyone else have. He controls and distributes the play and the game better than anyone I have ever seen" Schmeichel told BBC Sport.

"You have a special chemistry with certain players," explains the Dutchman, "and with me, at Manchester United, it's with Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes. Things just seem to click. What I like most about Paul, though, is that he is the epitome of a professional footballer, He comes to training, then goes home and spends his time with his family. He doesn't like all the hoo-ha outside the football, the interviews with papers and on TV. He prefers to just live his own life and he refuses to be a media object or a public figure. I have nothing but admiration for him." Van Nistelrooy told FourFourTwo

“He has an awareness of what’s happening around him on the edge of the box which is better than most players. As a kid he always had a knack of arriving in the penalty area just at the right time, but he’s proving just as effective from outside the box because he’s using his experience in the right way. It doesn’t matter who I am thinking about bringing into my midfield, Paul Scholes will be included, as he would in any side in the world.” - Sir Alex Ferguson

“If you ask footballers to pick out the player they most admire, so many of them will pick Paul Scholes. He can tackle, and his passing and shooting is of the highest level. He’s the most consistent and naturally gifted player we’ve had for a long, long time.” - Alan Shearer

“England don’t have another player like him. He could have had a lot more caps if he had carried on. And if I was the manager he would have ended up with more than I did – easy." - Sir Bobby Charlton

“Paul Scholes is just fantastic. When you play alongside him, you realise what a special talent he is.” - Michael Carrick

“There isn’t a player of his mould anywhere else in the world.” - Glenn Hoddle

“When he played in the junior sides he used to have his own personal fan club that would come just to watch him!” - Eric Harrison

“He’s the best one- or two-touch passer in the country. He sees the game unlike any other player.” - Terry Venables


See. If you read those you'd think Scholes was the best player ever, rather than just the best English midfielder of the last 20 years. The trick is not to believe everything you read.

We can all lob quotes up, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. At the end of the day, I don't think I'm alone in rating little Stevie as a second tier midfielder.You are one in a minority!

And what about the personal honours Gerrard has won? Second tier players don't consistently be rewarded with those type of accolades do they?

Steven Gerrard would walk into any team in world football and that is a fact. He is world class and far from being second tier like you state.

You must be on the wind up come to think of it. Surely you are not that blind as to see what Gerrard has done/achieved consistently since he broke into the Liverpool team.

Steven Gerrard would walk into any team in world football and that is a fact.

Prove it....Woops!

Has Gerrard come out of Michael Essiens pocket yet????

Gerrard for me is the worlds best midfielder, and no, I don't like Liverpool all that much.

He'd be the first name on my team sheet, ahead of Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka or anyone else.

I just can't see it.

Don't get me wrong, I can see he's technically a great midfielder, I just don't think he's as gifted a player as some of the midfielders I mentioned in my earlier post. Defensively I don't think he's as strong as Keane/Vieira/Makalele/Gattuso (although he's got the same engine as Keane I'll give him that), and attacking wise he doesn't have the finesse or vision of Pirlo or Scholes.

For me anyway, I'm honestly not just here to have a row with LFCPaul and I am happy to agree to disagree - at the end of the day Rafa Benitez and Capello know more about footie than me so if he's getting picked then I bow to their experience and knowledge.

Gerrard for me is the worlds best midfielder, and no, I don't like Liverpool all that much.

He'd be the first name on my team sheet, ahead of Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka or anyone else.

You would pick Gerrard in a team over Messi?

So, say for example - you were manager of Man City - with any player wishing to join you readily... you are telling me, you would pick Stevie G over the players you have just mentioned...

I call your bluff mate :)

You would pick Gerrard in a team over Messi?

So, say for example - you were manager of Man City - with any player wishing to join you readily... you are telling me, you would pick Stevie G over the players you have just mentioned...

I call your bluff mate :)

Gerrard. Every time. When deployed effectively, he is the heartbeat of the side.

I'd build a team around him. Messi is a genius, but he'd be the icing on the cake. Ronaldo and Kaka are also amazing players, but the work rate and leadership of Gerrard, for me, puts him above the rest.

The question is now do Liverpool have the squad to challenge for both the Premier League and the Champions league? I think that the push for the Premier league may cost them against Chelsea.

Now that that question is answered the next question is, is Liverpool's squad strong enough to push Man Utd to the wire? I think that they will finish 3rd.

Now that that question is answered the next question is, is Liverpool's squad strong enough to push Man Utd to the wire? I think that they will finish 3rd.

As a Man U fan I was in two minds last night. Part of me wanted Liverpool to lose because I don't want them to win a single thing ever again, but part of me wanted them stretched and distracted by the Champions league so that they'd run out of steam for the league.

I'm just hoping they get just so far.....then fail :)