who thinks pete doherty is a musical genius and who thinks he is just a washed up druggy?

I think he's neither.

Although some of the tracks his bands have produced have been ok, he's not produced anything like enough decent material to be considered a genius, or even a talented musician.

But I don't think he's merely a washed up druggy either.

i agree and disagree i think he is a good musician but he should get off the drugs:gag:

I'm not a fan but I can see the potential in him. If he cleaned up he could be an excellent songwriter I think, he's got a really unique turn of phrase.

Hmmmmm. Not really bothered either way, I don't rate his music.

However, there are a few examples of bands that produced by far their best work during a sustained period of hard drug use...

if he did get off the drugs then he probably wouldnt be such a good musician

Originally posted by Fantomas
If he cleaned up he could be an excellent songwriter I think, he's got a really unique turn of phrase.

Let's face it, if Mick Jones is spending a lot of time working with him, he's got to have something pretty special going for him.

The dynamic between Pete and Carl Barat reminds me a bit of the relationship between Mick and Joe Strummer - produced fantastic material together, were incendiary on stage, and loved each other like brothers, but had spectacular bust-ups. All part of the chemistry.

StarSparkle :thumbsup:

Originally posted by StarSparkle
All part of the chemistry.
StarSparkle :thumbsup:

And Pete loves his chemistry...

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
And Pete loves his chemistry...

Oops... :blush: He certainly seems to :(

StarSparkle

thankx 4 replying to this :gag:

Originally posted by arctic_flame
thankx 4 replying to this :gag:

Sorry, were you replying to me there?

I was trying to be supportive of Pete Doherty and trying to say I think he's a gifted writer/musician. Mick Jones is one of my greatest musical heroes, and for me to compare anyone to him is me giving one of the biggest compliments I can.

I unfortunately used the word 'chemistry' in my post - referring to the huge personal chemistry between Mick and Joe Strummer in The Clash (and between Pete and Carl Barat in the Libertines) - but I now realise it was a rather thoughtless word to use in the context of this thread, and I regret using it.

Hope that's clear now.

StarSparkle

stupid druggy with limited talent and a huge ego.

Originally posted by robbie
stupid druggy with limited talent and a huge ego.

That could be said of a fair few people that aren't famous too, though...

Some of his stuff has been semi passable but I'd certainly not hail him as a genius. When you're known primarily as a chronic junkie rather than a musician there's gotta be something wrong with your status in the scheme of things.

I personally think he's a prat and comes accross as a messed up guy who is trading more on his drug habit than on his music.
Any two-bit asshole can suck a crack pipe but to create really special music takes talent.

i like most music styles / artists / bands

doesnt matter if they take drugs or not

BUT!!!!

hes just an arsehole tbh.........out and out

Just watched Glasto coverage of him crowd surfin and wallowing in the mud....

Nutter

i think Pete Doherty is great, and his lyrics are brill.Pity about the drugs but he has now got an implant can only hope things are on the up for him. Oh and another thing i really really wanna scrub his fingernails for him..they put me about!!!!!! Otherwise very cute:heyhey:

He should get off the drungs he has a 2 year old kid and he needs to be more responsible but been around people like Kate Moss who seems as bad as he is for drug taking cant be doing him any good, but he seems talanted and he is deffinitly well educated, but i cant put his song writing in the same legue as some one like Morrissey.

I don't get how someone who is constantly wrecked in the public eye hasn't been given a talking to by the police??

Even IF the few albums Doherty has been involved in showcased some of the best songwriting an musical creativity in years, he still hasn't really had a career as such.

You can't label someone a genius off the back of a handful of (in my opinion) mediocre albums.

Would there be this much fuss if he wasn't a smackhead?

I think he's a bit of an idiot. His musics not that revolutionary. And I thinks he's living on a short fuse - who's gonna have heard of this guy in a few years? Then he'll be left with a drug problem and not much money.

Part of the problem is the tabloid papers will always filter out anything apart from his drug abuse. How many people know anything about him apart from the crap you read in the bloody Sun? The guy can't really win.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Part of the problem is the tabloid papers will always filter out anything apart from his drug abuse. How many people know anything about him apart from the crap you read in the bloody Sun? The guy can't really win.

There isn't really that much else to tell. He's made a couple of over-rated albums and been voted best style icon by the NME. Heroin chic is cool again (apparently), and the tabloids love anyone who ****s up in the public eye, how else can you explain his success?

Lyrics by Mr D

There's no such thing as a harmless joke
There's no such thing as a gentle toke
There's no such thing as Panama Jack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
I am a goat
In a moat
With a boat
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack

I especially like this bit :

I am a goat
In a moat
With a boat

:)

He's overrated. If he carries on with the drug taking there'll only be one winner- heroin.

Did anyone see Oasis' performance on the telly at this year's V festival? Someone in the crowd had an inflatable penis and Liam said: "looks like Pete Doherty is in the house!" That about sums up Pete's contribution to British music IMO.

did anyone watch 'who the f*** is Pete Doherty' it changed my opinion of him and so did the interview with him afterwards...:clap:

"I am a goat in a moat with a boat....."

Incredible, it's just like some 12 year olds nu metal band.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
"I am a goat in a moat with a boat....."

Incredible, it's just like some 12 year olds nu metal band.

I think he'd been reading The Cat In The Hat before he wrote that tune.

Why do junkies like Kerplunk.
You pull out the needles and then lose your marbles.

'Who's got the crack' which was quoted before in an attempt to show up Pete's lyrical 'talents' was actually written by The Moldy Peaches.

And i agree with hoobs that my opinion totally changed of him after i watched the two programmes on him the other night. They woman interviewing him had clearly read too much daily mail and gone into the interview with preconceptions. He answered intelligently and played/sang beautifully for her and, IMO, came out looking the best from the experience.

Having said this i do agree that when someone's addiction is the main focus, rather than the music, then something is very wrong. Hope he gets himself sorted out.

Another Jim Morrison I get the impression.

Never a poet, but perhaps some good stuff to come.

Yes, an asshole lol

He's more about the presence, personality, charisma- in other words ego. He has that undefinable quality that make people want to emulate him, or at the very least talk about him and disect his every action (as the number of replies to this thread has proved); without him actually doing all that much. One thing he certainly isn't is a "music genius". Babyshambles are utterly horrendous.

hes a stupid druggy idolizied by young mindless broodlings

Originally posted by Tubthump
He's more about the presence, personality, charisma- in other words ego. He has that undefinable quality that make people want to emulate him, or at the very least talk about him and disect his every action (as the number of replies to this thread has proved); without him actually doing all that much. One thing he certainly isn't is a "music genius". Babyshambles are utterly horrendous.

I'd say you've pretty much got him there.

Undeniably, he has 'star quality' and in this time of nonentities becoming 'celebrities', that's probably enough. And he has that air of danger about him - that anything could happen at any moment - which used to be one of the most vital parts of being in a rock band.

Despite the various snide examples offered by forummers of his writing ability earlier in the thread, I think he does have a strong feeling for language and has some talent for writing lyrics. He may not quite be a poet, but he does show a 'very nice turn of phrase'.

StarSparkle

I just saw the documentary Who the **** is Pete Doherty?

Rather than dangerous, I thought he came across like a poncy public school boy. I really don't get what all the fuss is about.

He needs to sort himself out at the moment hes a complete waster, he is a talented musician but he has'nt done much recently ( kilamangiro) is good by baby shambles. He has to get a few early nights he looks a reyt mess!!!!!!!

I watched the documentary last night, and have to admit to a grudging respect to how he presents his music to his audience. When I saw the Libertines a few years ago (I was there to see my mate's support band) I was quite stunned to witness the pure adoration they illicited from their fans. Every kid under 17 was singing every word of every song like it had saved their souls. To me, the music just sounded like a Jam covers band; I really didn't get what the fuss was about. Consequently, for the first time in my life, I felt like I was getting old. So having seen it first hand, I know that the documentary wasn't exagerating the impact Doherty has on his fans. Instead of pandering to conventional marketing wisdom, he keeps it down to earth playing small venues, throwing impromptu gigs, and writes lyrics that have a significance to the demographic his music speaks for.

One thing the documentary did exagerate was the extent of his talent. He is not the new Mick Jones, and he certainly isn't the new Bob Dylan.

Originally posted by nick2
Lyrics by Mr D


Quote:

There's no such thing as a harmless joke
There's no such thing as a gentle toke
There's no such thing as Panama Jack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
I am a goat
In a moat
With a boat
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack
Who's got the crack, who's got the crack



I especially like this bit :

Quote:

I am a goat
In a moat
With a boat


:)

Not sure where your got that from?

That's the lyrics to "who's got the crack" by NYC band The Moldy Peaches

Nothing to do with Mr D

He's an arsehole but the Libertines were one of the best bands to come out of the UK in a long long time.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Heroin chic is cool again (apparently)

I think Agent Gypo has got a point here. The media love PD because he has a tendancy to get really sweaty and fall about, but has still managed to net Kate Moss. They both have a repuation as hellraisers, so together they are a tabloid editor's dream.

I think he's popular with the record-buying public for the same reasons. Teenage boys who buy these records love an idol who does naughty things and generally doesn't give a f***, but still gets his end away with one of the most beautiful women in the world.

So that's the hype explained. As for the music, I don't feel I know enough to comment because I've not heard much of his stuff. I've been put off seriously listening to it by his shambolic (see what I did there?!!) image. I liked the lyrics that someone posted earlier though, about the goat inm the moat. They're kooky!

Originally posted by Tubthump
I watched the documentary last night, and have to admit to a grudging respect to how he presents his music to his audience. When I saw the Libertines a few years ago (I was there to see my mate's support band) I was quite stunned to witness the pure adoration they illicited from their fans. Every kid under 17 was singing every word of every song like it had saved their souls. To me, the music just sounded like a Jam covers band; I really didn't get what the fuss was about. Consequently, for the first time in my life, I felt like I was getting old. So having seen it first hand, I know that the documentary wasn't exagerating the impact Doherty has on his fans. Instead of pandering to conventional marketing wisdom, he keeps it down to earth playing small venues, throwing impromptu gigs, and writes lyrics that have a significance to the demographic his music speaks for.

One thing the documentary did exagerate was the extent of his talent. He is not the new Mick Jones, and he certainly isn't the new Bob Dylan.

Well said, Tubthump :thumbsup: You're spot-on.

"Every kid under 17 was singing every word of every song like it had saved their souls". It's that connection between band and fans that matters with bands like the Libertines and the Manics and to a lesser extent the Clash. The music is secondary, however good it is.

It's like when people complained in the days of punk 'they can't even play their instruments', that was completely missing the point - they just didn't Get It.

Unfortunately, I never went to see the Libertines and I really regret that. I bet it would've been an amazing experience - not on the level of seeing the Manics, maybe, but still something to be experienced.

StarSparkle

PS - No, Pete Doherty is certainly not the new Mick Jones - there will only ever be one Mick Jones!

he is dffinetly just a stupid druggy. he needs :help:

Originally posted by JBee
I liked the lyrics that someone posted earlier though, about the goat inm the moat. They're kooky!



ARghhhhhh , those are not his lyrics, they belong to Adam Green and Kimya Dawson.

Originally posted by boyface
ARghhhhhh , those are not his lyrics, they belong to Adam Green and Kimya Dawson.

Okay Boyface. Keep your hair on! I get the picture!!!

Ive just shaved it off as it happens ;)