the so called self proclaimed " king of chavs " michael carroll the lottery winner who appears in the courts and papers with his one fingered salute on a regular basis is in again today :rant:

i think its about time the governenment set up an elite killing death squad that would have no connection to anyone who would be used to assassinate people like this man and the rest of the societies scum and also all of your top "big hitters" and drug dealers in major cities........ once these prominent figures start disappearing - you watch how fast crime figure would drop............ :twisted:

Originally posted by bigjay
i think its about time the governenment set up an elite killing death squad

You're sick.

I'm inclined to agree with him though.

Originally posted by bigjay
the so called self proclaimed " king of chavs " michael carroll the lottery winner who appears in the courts and papers with his one fingered salute on a regular basis is in again today :rant:

i think its about time the governenment set up an elite killing death squad that would have no connection to anyone who would be used to assassinate people like this man and the rest of the societies scum and also all of your top "big hitters" and drug dealers in major cities........ once these prominent figures start disappearing - you watch how fast crime figure would drop............ :twisted:

Um, no... Just NO..

As much as I hate chavs, even they don't deserve to be attacked by death squads IMO... :loopy:

Originally posted by nick2
You're sick.

if - god forbid nick2 a family member of yours is seriously hurt or raped or killed by a chav or scum of the society for drugs or gang land wars - then tell me you wouldnt want this type of thing in place........!!!

something needs to be done to combat this....... the police and legal system are struggling....

Originally posted by Nathen
I'm inclined to agree with him though.

and im sure there are millions of others would do too Nathen......... especially people who feel they have been let down by the justice system

nick would you live next door to him?

Lets create "chavland" where all the chavs can go and live.

They can have their own flag (burberry of course)

Lots of roads with speed bumps on so they can see if they can reach 40 miles an hour inbetween them while comparing bass bins with whiteboy euro techno or speed garage belting out of the back.

Every flat would come equipped with a doorbell that played eminem when pressed

The local currency would be rizlas (still using paper money) and tennants

wouldn't need to register any births as all children are compulsary called biatch or thick c**t

Schools would teach them how to wear their cap at just the right angle and feature such exams as

"how far up should your top come to show off your cubic ziconia piercing" and " how much of your cap should you show under your hood"

you would only be able to leave if you completed a course including spelling the words what, straight, because, are and mate without using text language speak

Local council meetings will be held outside the off licence and any one found in groups of two will be forcibly moved on to form a larger group.

then drop a bomb on it

I bloody hate chav's who are they? what are they? I tell you what they are they are leaches of the world sucking off the state like vampires they all should be shot for their dress code.

They all should burn in hell along with their Giro's!

What about an eye for an eye?

Drug dealers, make them addicts but don't provide treatment.

Rapists, treat them the same, let some gay sodomise him.

If an OAP gets beaten up then the perpetrators are treated in the same way.

Some yob smashes a few windows, his parents windows get smashed.

Scum who think its fun to kick animals to death, let them be on the receiving end of a good kicking.

Why the hell not. Just when is society going to say enough.

Law abiding people have the right to expect that their persons and property should be given the same degree of respect that they show to others.

If the yobs choose to make up their own rules, fine.
Society can conduct itself according to these same rules and we'll see just how long the scum can stomach it.

Originally posted by bigjay
the so called self proclaimed " king of chavs " michael carroll the lottery winner who appears in the courts and papers with his one fingered salute on a regular basis is in again today :rant:

i think its about time the governenment set up an elite killing death squad that would have no connection to anyone who would be used to assassinate people like this man and the rest of the societies scum and also all of your top "big hitters" and drug dealers in major cities........ once these prominent figures start disappearing - you watch how fast crime figure would drop............ :twisted: Hell ya.

Killer ninjas or sommut.

To put them down good and proper, if you can't educate them, get rid of em (sounds a bit fascist that lol)

Originally posted by PhilipB
What about an eye for an eye?

Drug dealers, make them addicts but don't provide treatment.

Rapists, treat them the same, let some gay sodomise him.

If an OAP gets beaten up then the perpetrators are treated in the same way.

Some yob smashes a few windows, his parents windows get smashed.

Scum who think its fun to kick animals to death, let them be on the receiving end of a good kicking.

Why the hell not. Just when is society going to say enough.

Law abiding people have the right to expect that their persons and property should be given the same degree of respect that they show to others.

If the yobs choose to make up their own rules, fine.
Society can conduct itself according to these same rules and we'll see just how long the scum can stomach it.


PhilipB - you seem to be on my wave length........:thumbsup:

Originally posted by PhilipB
What about an eye for an eye?

Drug dealers, make them addicts but don't provide treatment.

Rapists, treat them the same, let some gay sodomise him.

If an OAP gets beaten up then the perpetrators are treated in the same way.

Some yob smashes a few windows, his parents windows get smashed.

Scum who think its fun to kick animals to death, let them be on the receiving end of a good kicking.

Why the hell not. Just when is society going to say enough.

Law abiding people have the right to expect that their persons and property should be given the same degree of respect that they show to others.

If the yobs choose to make up their own rules, fine.
Society can conduct itself according to these same rules and we'll see just how long the scum can stomach it.

dont think the parents should have to pay if they put windows through, make them put them back together piece by piece with superglue and no gloves.

Just give the drug guys pure drugs instead of the 90% daz 5% flour 5% coke stuff they give and watch the eyes bulge!!

If an OAP gets beaten up then give thenm double kickings for picking on less defencable (is that a word) people

Why should the gays get the fun, i personally have a big cactus that i would quite gladly use on them (then make them lick it clean after)

wait for the do-gooders to come and say how we shoudl Rehabilitate them and that thye are misunderstood.

Bo**ocks to that, if you commit a crime like that YOU take responsibility, YOU accept the punishment, DONT blame anyone ELSE,

NO ONE MADE THEM DO IT!!!!!

Originally posted by bigjay
if - god forbid nick2 a family member of yours is seriously hurt or raped or killed .. blah blah

Such a rubbish argument. A Chav steals your wallet, so wipe out everyone who he knows, and everyone who wears a similar style of clothing. An asian kid steals your wallet, so lets wipe out a race?

What an awful way of thinking.

Originally posted by iffypop
Such a rubbish argument. A Chav steals your wallet, so wipe out everyone who he knows, and everyone who wears a similar style of clothing. An asian kid steals your wallet, so lets wipe out a race?

What an awful way of thinking.

i never said generalise - i said the punishment should be doled to the person commiting the crime......

Originally posted by bigjay
if - god forbid nick2 a family member of yours is seriously hurt or raped or killed by a chav or scum of the society for drugs or gang land wars - then tell me you wouldnt want this type of thing in place........!!!

something needs to be done to combat this....... the police and legal system are struggling....

What utter, utter, total and utter crap you talk. Perhaps you should go to the police with you plans to murder anyone you dopn't like the look of, see what they think.

Originally posted by sheffbag
Why should the gays get the fun, i personally have a big cactus that i would quite gladly use on them (then make them lick it clean after)


There are fetish sites for people who get off on hurting others you know, have you tried www.greasetank.com ?

What I just can't get my head round is that if the majority of people are fed up with these scum just why do WE allow it to carry on.

The do-gooders we've always had with us. If you said anything in the past against the poor misunderstood scumbags then you were, and still are an out and out fascist.

Politicians? They're OK kept away from areas where muggers, druggies and rapists operate.
Their notion is to send the retards on an outward bound course to show them the error of their ways. Just makes them a fitter yob.

Saw in a newspaper recently a guy in Edinburgh shouted at 2 kids, both aged 13 who were literally walking over his legally parked car. In effect, told them to bl**dly well get off.
Result? He was charged with breaching the peace and fined £250.
The kids, no action taken.

Are we sure its the yobs who have a problem and not us for putting up with this sort of thing.

sheffbag, bigjay if you ever feel like starting that revolution, can I join you. PLEASE.

Originally posted by nick2
There are fetish sites for people who get off on hurting others you know, have you tried www. greasetank.com ?

nick2, just a thought but how come you know about these "fetish sites".

Originally posted by PhilipB
nick2, just a thought but how come you know about these "fetish sites".

I'm a man of the world.

Obviously.
Albeit a fetish world.
You can keep it, I'll stay in the real one.

i never said generalise - i said the punishment should be doled to the person commiting the crime......

No,

The title of this thread is Assassination of "bad boys" and chavs, which are both generalisations.

Also, you said you want Michael Carroll to be assasinated. So what "wavelength" are you actually on? Maybe i'm just misunderstanding, but you sound as idiotic and violent as the scum you hate.

Come on! :loopy:

The main reason we have all these 'problems' is becase the law is an ass. The incident mentioned earlier about the guy in Edinburgh is a classic case in point.

We would not need to resort to any of the extreme methods proposed if we have an effective and operable legal system along with clear guidelines of what is and what is not acceptable behaviour which is enforced with zero tolerance.

However, as I have said on another thread (general chat) the current Government will need to begin a massive prison building programme because there is going to be a whole generation of people who believe (rightly at the moment) that they can get away with anything they want to - they are being brought up to believe they need fear or respect no-one because no matter what wrong they do, the law will protect them from and punish the victim.

Yes something needs to be done, but to resort to an eye for an eye is lowering yourself to their non-existent standards. Adult, civilised people know better and should lead by example.

Hels, as our esteemed Prime Minister keeps going on about, the word respect is pivotal to implement change.

Build more prisons? I thought this argument had been beaten in that the yobs simply learn more effective ways to break the law.
In the 80's did not Thatcher introduce the "short sharp shock", run along military lines to bring erring youths into line?
Did it work?
Did it hell.

Sorry but I would contend that it's better to prevent these scum from causing trouble than to punish. If they are to be punished, i.e put in prison then they have already committed some felony and hence someone has been "hurt".

If you go over the drink drive alcohol limit, you rightly loose your licence.
In other words the punishment fits the crime.
This notion should be extended to acts of violence.

Originally posted by nick2
I'm a man of the world.

World of Leather?

Originally posted by PhilipB
The do-gooders we've always had with us. If you said anything in the past against the poor misunderstood scumbags then you were, and still are an out and out fascist.

... send the retards on an outward bound course to show them the error of their ways. Just makes them a fitter yob.


This guy is good for a laugh. He whinges about being called a fascist and then terms all crims as "retards" and supposes "some gay" gay.. er.. person? Oh wait, are they real people? - will shag anything you give to 'it'.

You should move to america and buy a big gun. There's loads more people who think like you! And we all know how safe a place America is.

Welcome to the forum tomato.

I would reply to your post if I thought that it would add to the thread.
Please re read my previous postings.

"whinges about being called a fascist", where?

"all crims (presumably short for criminals) are retards", er just where do I infer that?

I rather think that it's yourself that is most certainly "good for a laugh".

Welcome to the forum tomato.

Thanks! :) They're nice and feisty, the way I like it!

You:

Their notion is to send the retards on an outward bound course to show them the error of their ways. Just makes them a fitter yob.

The do-gooders we've always had with us. If you said anything in the past against the poor misunderstood scumbags then you were, and still are an out and out fascist.


The Retards. - you did mean criminals

I'm a do-gooder (thats cool ;)) You make a case that people are made out to be facists wrongly. But you seem to have some pretty nasty ways of thinking. You made me laugh because while I would never call you a nazi, the nazis used to say that lots of people were retards, when they just didnt like them. You dont like criminals, and called them retards. That just made me laugh!

:thumbsup:

Tomato.

Originally posted by sheffbag
nick would you live next door to him?

Lets create "chavland" where all the chavs can go and live.

They can have their own flag (burberry of course)

Lots of roads with speed bumps on so they can see if they can reach 40 miles an hour inbetween them while comparing bass bins with whiteboy euro techno or speed garage belting out of the back.

Every flat would come equipped with a doorbell that played eminem when pressed

The local currency would be rizlas (still using paper money) and tennants

wouldn't need to register any births as all children are compulsary called biatch or thick c**t

Schools would teach them how to wear their cap at just the right angle and feature such exams as

"how far up should your top come to show off your cubic ziconia piercing" and " how much of your cap should you show under your hood"

you would only be able to leave if you completed a course including spelling the words what, straight, because, are and mate without using text language speak

Local council meetings will be held outside the off licence and any one found in groups of two will be forcibly moved on to form a larger group.

then drop a bomb on it

Couldn't have put it better myself. As a hardworking person who lives by the book it ****** me off that these people continue to get away with murder ( literally) every single day. Hardly any of them have done a day's work in their lives but still manage to have all the latest gear/phones/hifis/plasma teles etc etc. They revell in upsetting other people with anti-social behaviour - off road bikes, souped up cars blasting **** out of the stereo sound systems, communicating by shouting, swearing at each other so that we all have to listen to the banal crap they say to one another. Send them all on an island ( preferably Alkatraz ) and leave them to it.:rant:

Originally posted by tomato
Thanks! :) They're nice and feisty, the way I like it!

You:

Their notion is to send the retards on an outward bound course to show them the error of their ways. Just makes them a fitter yob.

The do-gooders we've always had with us. If you said anything in the past against the poor misunderstood scumbags then you were, and still are an out and out fascist.


The Retards. - you did mean criminals

I'm a do-gooder (thats cool ;)) You make a case that people are made out to be facists wrongly. But you seem to have some pretty nasty ways of thinking. You made me laugh because while I would never call you a nazi, the nazis used to say that lots of people were retards, when they just didnt like them. You dont like criminals, and called them retards. That just made me laugh!

:thumbsup:

Tomato.

Sure there's a message here somewhere but can't seem to follow it.
Anyway, Emmerdales just starting.

The problem is that the law is slacker than a dutch prostitutes nether regions, it protects the guilty and shafts the innocent. Something SHOULD be done, as much as i'd like to shoot the four lettered scumbags, I think we should go back a little in time, and bring back things like doing mind numming tasks in prisions, smashing rocks, making pointless articals of clobber, living on the bare minimum, no tv, no pool tables, nothing, just 4 walls, bed, a sink, and a bog. And tougher powers for the police to give someone doing wrong a quick jab to the stomach. Police with guns, shoot em in the leg/arm, not likly to kill them, but sure will make em think twice about doing it again. and after shooting them, make them have to sit in a&e until the people with real emergancies, just in font of those who have go so drunk they smashed someones face in with a road sign.

Were too easy going, Mr Chav Millionairre, should have to pay for ALL the costs of the court, right down to the cleaner that has to wipe the grease from the seat where he was sat. plus for the harrasment, damage, police time used in arresting his sorry ass. and lets cut the crap with ASBO's, conefine them to thier house, if they go out, they get locked up and made to do previous skull numbing tasks, lets have them sat on bikes, generating power for the national grid. Sounds hard, but these kind of people dont deserve ANY luxaries in the nick, its should be cold and hard. It should be the same for juviniles, the odd shoplifitn offence, fine, a slap on the wrist is enough for most kids, but repeat offences should be sent to a boarding school, same with joyriders, happy slappers. No home comforts, just hard lessons. They'll soon think about doing it again.

Joel

The Law protects criminals and shafts the innocent Joelc?

care to elaborate? (if possible)

Originally posted by PhilipB
What I just can't get my head round is that if the majority of people are fed up with these scum just why do WE allow it to carry on....
sheffbag, bigjay if you ever feel like starting that revolution, can I join you. PLEASE.

Scum like who?

LOL


We allow scum like you to carry on in this forum because at least we can see what you are planning, whilst you blab it out in a nice 'big man' way to impress your room temperature IQ buddies.

Let's face it - if you were really planning to put something like this into action yourself, you would be exceeding even your own levels of stupidity by announcing it in here...

was discussing this tonight with an ex squady and we all agreed. Bring back national service. It teaches respect and discipline. And also will get people healthy.

teacher/police etc cannot touch kids but but on service you will be beaten if you do not do what you are supposed to do.

as much as i dislike 'chavs' , and some of them can be right numptys and cause a lot of trouble , theyre still people too. nobody should be discriminated against because of the way they dress. sometimes the biggest 'chavs' actually fit into other labels such as a lot of 'moshers' with a serious chip on their shoulder. im not standing up for chav culture but there are individuals in every group that are actually decent nice people. i have 'chavs' in the family and although i dont nescessarily agree with the way they look and act theyre still people whether you think theyre a nice person or not. to be honest am getting a bit sick of the whole 'chav' thing. its all been blown way out of proportion by the media . these people used to be 'scallys' or 'townies' and a lot of them were still numptys but since 'chav' got turned into a buzzword its gotten worse as now they feel they have to live up to the typical sterotype . im not a 'chav' but i still quite like burberry (not worn it since my jacket got nicked by a real 'chav') and love my speed garage music so you cant tarnish everyone with the same brush. same as 'bad boys'. its all gotten out of hand since it became popular to act like this and widely publicised.
anyway , thats my rant over , the point being , even though a lot of these people are proper numptys and indeed some need to be taught a lesson , were all human and nobody deserves to be assassinated. rather than wiping these people off the planet , maybe give them a taste of their own medicine until they realise the error of their ways :thumbsup:

peace x

Originally posted by robbie
was discussing this tonight with an ex squady and we all agreed. Bring back national service. It teaches respect and discipline. And also will get people healthy.

teacher/police etc cannot touch kids but but on service you will be beaten if you do not do what you are supposed to do.

Oh no. I'm feeling quite tearfull remenissing about the crime free past we had just because people spent a couple of months in the army. People left their doors unlocked and everyone pitched in to help each other, it truly was a golden era of civilisation in England.

Nick2 is typical of the do-gooders who are ruining society for decent folk. Don't reply to his posts. Send him to Forum Coventry. Ignore him.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
The Law protects criminals and shafts the innocent Joelc?

care to elaborate? (if possible)



One good example of this is the case of Linda Walker, the teacher who was jailed when she was convicted of firing a pellet gun near a group of youths whom she blamed for a campaign of vandalism. There are many, many more similar examples.

The legal system deals with offences on a case by case basis ensuring that when evidence proving guilt is presented to the court a conviction and subsequent sentance is given rather than a littany of daft proposals including cacti sodomy, punishment beatings and forced drug overdoses.

If I didn't know people actually think like this I would be convinced that this was trolling. Hmmm, incarceration with sentance planning, substance dependancy treatment and probationary assistance upon release or a bumming off a cactus?

Originally posted by spartacus
Nick2 is typical of the do-gooders who are ruining society for decent folk. Don't reply to his posts. Send him to Forum Coventry. Ignore him.

Oh no, I'm a "do-gooder" the ultimate insult on this board, pass the cactus Maureen.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
The Law protects criminals and shafts the innocent Joelc?

care to elaborate? (if possible)



Scum like who?

LOL


We allow scum like you to carry on in this forum because at least we can see what you are planning, whilst you blab it out in a nice 'big man' way to impress your room temperature IQ buddies.

Let's face it - if you were really planning to put something like this into action yourself, you would be exceeding even your own levels of stupidity by announcing it in here...



The sort of scum that have no respect for others or their property. Would have thought that was quite obvious.
That being said I suppose it is futile to go into discussion about things literal and metaphorical.

Originally posted by mojoworking
One good example of this is the case of Linda Walker, the teacher who was jailed when she was convicted of firing a pellet gun near a group of youths whom she blamed for a campaign of vandalism. There are many, many more similar examples.

OK that's one. There are plenty of others. Are they the majority?

How many converse (law protects citizens, shafts criminals) cases are there in comparison? More? Less? About the same?

When the law fails it makes the headlines, especially when it fails spectacularly (guildford 4, cot death murders etc) Each failure reveals another flaw in an imperfect system.

But don't mistake this selective attention of for a true picture of how many criminals get shafted by the Criminal Justice System.

Like weather forecasts, no one remembers when they get it right.

As for those advocating viligantism, I take it your applications to join the police were rejected. But what grounds?

Poor impulse control?

Originally posted by mojoworking
One good example of this is the case of Linda Walker, the teacher who was jailed when she was convicted of firing a pellet gun near a group of youths whom she blamed for a campaign of vandalism. There are many, many more similar examples.

OK that's one. There are plenty of others. Are they the majority?

How many converse (law protects citizens, shafts criminals) cases are there in comparison? More? Less? About the same?

When the law fails it makes the headlines, especially when it fails spectacularly (guildford 4, cot death murders etc) Each failure reveals another flaw in an imperfect system.

But don't mistake this selective attention of for a true picture of how many criminals get shafted by the Criminal Justice System.

Like weather forecasts, no one remembers when they get it right.

As for those advocating viligantism, I take it your applications to join the police were rejected. But what grounds?

Poor impulse control?



Originally posted by Joelc
... the law...protects the guilty and shafts the innocent.

If this were true, everyone in prison would be innocent.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
OK that's one. There are plenty of others. Are they the majority?

How many converse (law protects citizens, shafts criminals) cases are there in comparison? More? Less? About the same?



No, they are not the majority obviously, let's not take things too literally.

But I put it to you sir that the law is an ass in the sense that it prevents citizens from defending themselves from all manner of vandalism, abuse and attack on their homes and person. They are in pain of imprisonment should they raise a hand to their assailants.

It's quite common to see people jailed for this. It's been discussed ad infinitum on this very forum, as you well know.

Originally posted by mojoworking
But I put it to you sir that the law is an ass in the sense that it prevents citizens from defending themselves

You are allowed to defend yourself, but the original poster of this thread is not talking about self-defence, you are not allowed to kill someone in the belief that they might hurt you in the future.

Originally posted by mojoworking
No, they are not the majority obviously, let's not take things too literally.

I agree.

But I put it to you sir that the law is an ass in the sense that it prevents citizens from defending themselves from all manner of vandalism, abuse and attack on their homes and person. They are in pain of imprisonment should they raise a hand to their assailants.

Not true. Plenty of cases abound where victims of crime have been vindicated in their use of force when defending their homes, families and property. The law allows the use of reasonable force. What it does not do is condone vigilantism, excessive force or taking the law into your own hands.

Once again, these stories are not as newsworthy - because they don't fuel the sort of righteous indignation or moral furore that is so effective in drawing punters away from other news sources.

Originally posted by nick2
What utter, utter, total and utter crap you talk. Perhaps you should go to the police with you plans to murder anyone you dopn't like the look of, see what they think.

ah nick2 you seem to be totally misunderstanding what im saying - what im saying is that the punishment is not fitting the crime or severe enough to prevent the crime being commited in the first place. now what i said about one of your family members being the victim of a horrendous crime - then the attacker getting away with 3-4 years for good behavouir.......! would you feel that justice had been served....?

Bigjay - apologies in advanced but getting lost with this post. So can I take it back abit so I can understand?

At the beginning you state you wanted to have a force whom kill chavs et al. Personally I think that is far too extreme. You never know after going through a Chav phase they may become respectable citizens.

If what you appear to say in later posts that it's not actual death you wish for but better punishments for crimes committed by anyone and not just chav types - yeah I can agree with that. Needs to be something for individuals to consider their actions if it's worth doing for the consequences.

Sorry if I have missed the point in the battle of words.

P.S. Sparticus had to laugh when you called Nick2 a do-gooder. I have to disagree - I think he can be a right little monkey. Bit of a devils advocate me thinks...

there is no evidence to suggest that harsher punishment will have a deterrant effect and plenty to suggest the opposite, so what's the point, it will just cost the tax payer more.
Tackle the root causes instead of wasting time and money on "harsh justice".

Originally posted by Cyclone
there is no evidence to suggest that harsher punishment will have a deterrant effect and plenty to suggest the opposite, so what's the point, it will just cost the tax payer more.
Tackle the root causes instead of wasting time and money on "harsh justice".

how would you do this cyclone...?

Originally posted by Cyclone
there is no evidence to suggest that harsher punishment will have a deterrant effect and plenty to suggest the opposite, so what's the point, it will just cost the tax payer more.
Tackle the root causes instead of wasting time and money on "harsh justice".

of course there is cyclone - think about it - if you were planning on stealing summat and the punishment was lets say 100 hours community service -yet you got a 48 inch plasma out of it.......... tempting....... now if you stole the same plasma..... but if you got caught they cut your hand off....... me thinks i might think twice.....!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by nick2
Oh no. I'm feeling quite tearfull remenissing about the crime free past we had just because people spent a couple of months in the army. People left their doors unlocked and everyone pitched in to help each other, it truly was a golden era of civilisation in England.

Err yes you could and yes it was. Look at crime figures form 50 years ago to today, look at decency and respect in people of all ages, just look at society and its "me, me, me and f**k you" culture.

crime has always occured but not at the level it does now.

Its not just about national service its about the complete and utter breakdown in regard for other people's belongings and wellbeing

Im sorry but im only 33 and society has changed so much since i was even 18 never mind "when i was a kid"

nick i sometimes think you post for reaction so i will react for the hell of it.

Let me ask you a question.

You live alone, get abused by a group of youths all evening who throw things at your house but the police cant do anything without cctv footage over a period of time.

bear in mind you live alone and are aged say...70 and all you want is a quiet life and are scared to step out of your house because of the daily abuse you may get and dont even want to go to the shops for fear of being attacked since you were assualted a couple of years ago but since the people who assualted you were 12 nothing could be done.

you could move into a home but why should you if you are still fully functional

then say hello to my friends grandmother (who i am describing), look her in the eye and say "its alright, there just kids"

could you do it?

could you

And just as another note

Why does murder and manslaughter carry different terms?

It makes me sick when i see people deny murder yet admit to manslaugher just to get a lower sentence.

Can anyone actually explain the difference to me?

Originally posted by sheffbag
Err yes you could and yes it was. Look at crime figures form 50 years ago to today, look at decency and respect in people of all ages, just look at society and its "me, me, me and f**k you" culture.

crime has always occured but not at the level it does now.

Its not just about national service its about the complete and utter breakdown in regard for other people's belongings and wellbeing

Im sorry but im only 33 and society has changed so much since i was even 18 never mind "when i was a kid"

nick i sometimes think you post for reaction so i will react for the hell of it.

Let me ask you a question.

You live alone, get abused by a group of youths all evening who throw things at your house but the police cant do anything without cctv footage over a period of time.

bear in mind you live alone and are aged say...70 and all you want is a quiet life and are scared to step out of your house because of the daily abuse you may get and dont even want to go to the shops for fear of being attacked since you were assualted a couple of years ago but since the people who assualted you were 12 nothing could be done.

you could move into a home but why should you if you are still fully functional

then say hello to my friends grandmother (who i am describing), look her in the eye and say "its alright, there just kids"

could you do it?

could you


well said sheffbag :clap: :clap:

Originally posted by sheffbag
Can anyone actually explain the difference to me?

Murder is planned/pre-meditated, manslaughter is "heat of the moment", an accident.

Sometimes I do just post for a reaction, the alternative is to just go along with what everyone else says and not raise the possibility of there being another opinion/view.

It's called playing the devils advocate, I don't always believe in what I say.

If everyone just posted "yes I agree with you" to every thread it would be very boring.

Originally posted by sheffbag
And just as another note

Why does murder and manslaughter carry different terms?

It makes me sick when i see people deny murder yet admit to manslaugher just to get a lower sentence.

Can anyone actually explain the difference to me?

Murder is usually charged when the person/s intended from the start to murder the victim. E.g. they wentt out that night with the equipment to kill the victim, had it planned.

Manslaughter is often used as the charge for when a person is killed but it was not the initial intention for the person to kill another. E.g often used in industrial accidents when a person is killed and the owner of the business could have prevented it. Wasn't their intention to kill though...
Or a case I know of regards a married couple with a young family. She was having an affair and came home from her boyfriend to her hubby and bragged drunkly about her activities and hubby's lack of skills and equipment in the bed dept, and she took a knife to his privates. He stabbed her once and she died. He got 6 yrs for manslaughter as it was classed as provocation and self defence.

Originally posted by bigjay
of course there is cyclone - think about it - if you were planning on stealing summat and the punishment was lets say 100 hours community service -yet you got a 48 inch plasma out of it.......... tempting....... now if you stole the same plasma..... but if you got caught they cut your hand off....... me thinks i might think twice.....!!!!!!!!!!

you are just indulging in idle supposition. The fact is that punishment has little to no deterrant effect. Whatever you might think, most criminal acts are either committed with no thought for the consequences or the criminal convinces themselves that they won't be caught, so the potential consequences are irrelevant.

Originally posted by samc
Murder is usually charged when the person/s intended from the start to murder the victim. E.g. they wentt out that night with the equipment to kill the victim, had it planned.

Manslaughter is often used as the charge for when a person is killed but it was not the initial intention for the person to kill another. E.g often used in industrial accidents when a person is killed and the owner of the business could have prevented it. Wasn't their intention to kill though...
Or a case I know of regards a married couple with a young family. She was having an affair and came home from her boyfriend to her hubby and bragged drunkly about her activities and hubby's lack of skills and equipment in the bed dept, and she took a knife to his privates. He stabbed her once and she died. He got 6 yrs for manslaughter as it was classed as provocation and self defence.

Was this in the news? If it was classed as self defence (which it sounds like from that short description) then no charge would have been brought, never mind a conviction secured.

Although I agree with the above, I'm usure that someone acting entirely in 'self-defence' would be convicted of manslaughter.

Interesting point about provocation though. This is why women who kill their husbands after years of abuse (usually) cannot be convicted of manslaughter rather than murder. The 'provocation' has to happen immediatley before the killing. So abuse does not count as provocation.

As for the assassination of chavs... Crikey! If you assassinate them all I'll be out of a job! :)

Originally posted by Cyclone
Was this in the news? If it was classed as self defence (which it sounds like from that short description) then no charge would have been brought, never mind a conviction secured.


It was but not in Sheffield - a North Yorks village incident probably about 8yrs ago now. And yes he was charged and imprisoned for manslaughter.

It was horrid for all the families and children. Her father pleaded with the courts not to imprison him because they had the children to think of who were obviously heartbroken and the family business to provide for the kids etc...

Made us all think because at first our reaction on hearing he had stabbed her was 'murdering ****'. But when the nitty gritty came out in the following days and weeks I certainly didn't follow my initial reaction. and obviously I haven't forgotten this incident else I wouldn't be telling you about it.

why was the defence of self defence discounted then, i presume they claimed that it was unreasonable force? As if you can safely disarm someone who is attacking you with a knife.

Originally posted by spartacus
Nick2 is typical of the do-gooders who are ruining society for decent folk. Don't reply to his posts. Send him to Forum Coventry. Ignore him.

Why are you so afraid to debate spartacus? Is your position in this debate so weak that you can only resort to trying to silence others? Poor show.

Isn't it sufficient for you that when the ranting hordes of the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade get on their hobby horse, the noise is so deafening that it usually stifles any meaningful debate about the criminal justice system?

In the circumstances, why bother trying to rally support to silence another poster - aren't you aware that you've already lost the argument?

Originally posted by nick2
Oh no. I'm feeling quite tearfull remenissing about the crime free past we had just because people spent a couple of months in the army. People left their doors unlocked and everyone pitched in to help each other, it truly was a golden era of civilisation in England.

erm, people did leave their doors inlocked.

anyhow.

Kids of today have no respect and no one to teach them respect. Adults don't bother or don''t feel that they should touch their kids as smacking is bad (read all the idiotic books) , police can't tocuh kids or teachers or anyone else.

They can almost do what they want and you cannot stop them because you are breaching their rights :loopy:

Originally posted by robbie
teacher/police etc cannot touch kids but but on service you will be beaten if you do not do what you are supposed to do.

I think if you keep someone against their will in such tightly controlled agressive authority, they must come out to a world without that authority feeling either pretty relieved or lost. Either way it must be enough to put people off authoritarians for life, or at least leave you with a message that beatings work if someone doesnt do what you want them to.

I think there are some great things that service can give you - for one, being in a squad with people from all walks of life, but surely we can give kids these experiences somewhere else, where they can learn that beatings are never a positive thing.

I'm not talking about beatings. I'm sure a mouthy young lad would soon learn to shut up after having to do a 1000 press ups every time he mouthed it off.

these kids ignore teachers becasue they know that there is nothing the teacher can really do about it and that their parents are more than likely to try and hit the teacher than try to discipline their son.

Originally posted by robbie
[B]I'm not talking about beatings. I'm sure a mouthy young lad would soon learn to shut up after having to do a 1000 press ups every time he mouthed it off.

Ok. Fair point - but that doesnt teach people respect. That teaches them to not mouth off in front of a particular person, else he'll get a beating.

When he gets out, back into the world where teachers cant hit him, its playtime. You're suppressing something, not solving it.

My solution isnt to allow Teachers to hit kids too, it is to recognise that you need to help kids develop into something better.

but that is what all the measures in the last 10 years have been aimed at. It doesn't work. Without parental guidance it will never work. Why should they follow a rule when they know that they can have more fun by breaking it and no punishment.

simply doesn't work.

I'm just scared that you can increase punishment forever and people will still commit crimes. It is a careless and angry mentality that is screaming that something is really wrong. It is easy to say harsher punishment, longer jail times, will calm people down - but it wont take away that anger. I dont have a great faith in the Criminal Justice System either. But I think any re-adjustment of sentances should be backed up with putting something positive, some real alternatives, into peoples lives.

but what though?

Community service doesn't seem to work. Neither does tagging.

the only way to get people behaving better is to change society.

due to the laxness and apologistic culture this country seems to be falling apart.

I got taught right from wrong as a child. I'm sure less and less kids are being shown this.

Originally posted by robbie
the only way to get people behaving better is to change society.

Ok, we sort of agree. My only point here is that you cannot rely on harsh punishment and an overly oppressive police force to change the thinking of an entire nation. It doesnt work anywhere else in the world, and it wont work here.

I think tagging is actually quite effective in cases I've heard.. have you heard some bad stories?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
The Law protects criminals and shafts the innocent Joelc?

care to elaborate? (if possible)


Yeh, innocent people get left to pick up the pieces, whilst the low life scumbags get sent to jail for a life of luxary. Or they get a meanial sentance, which is nothing like the trama the victims have to go though, especally in the case of rapists, murderers etc. Prisoners get it better then a lot of law abiding families in the uk, and thats whrong in this day and age.

Oh, and the right to defend your home, if someone breaks into your house, you have to work out what "reasonable" force your allowed to use, in order not to get sued. I'm sorry, but if someone breaks into your house, you should be protected (as long as you dont kill them, except in extreme cases), a nice broken arm would be a good deterrant.

Joel

Originally posted by nick2
Murder is planned/pre-meditated, manslaughter is "heat of the moment", an accident.

Sometimes I do just post for a reaction, the alternative is to just go along with what everyone else says and not raise the possibility of there being another opinion/view.

It's called playing the devils advocate, I don't always believe in what I say.

If everyone just posted "yes I agree with you" to every thread it would be very boring.

still never answered the question though?

could you?

Originally posted by sheffbag
still never answered the question though?

could you?

I think I'd look her in the eye and say "Don't worry, I'm going to do something possitive to help you, rather than just trying to make complete strangers feel guilty on a chat forum. I'm going to nag the police, or set-up a neighbourhood watch, or find out who these kids parents are have a word with them".

Ah. RedRobbo!

I have done some research on you and it seems that you profess to be a councillor? Particularly interesting was your explanation of council tax spending in reply to a thread accusing the council of overspending on projects in high ethnic areas of Sheffield. I was impressed by your posting with its rational explanation of budget requirements. Indeed, it was only marred by your caustic remarks aimed at another Forum member. So, if you are an elected local government officer then perhaps you could explain to the Forum why our council taxes rise incessantly and yet we receive less in certain services each year.

Take the police for instance. My neighbour was attacked on the street outside his home yesterday evening by three youths in a car who took exception to him photographing the spectacular sunset. Apparently they thought he was filming them. Only because he stood up to them did he escape serious injury. The police arrived fast enough but were as usual too late to catch the thugs. The officer explained that there were only 10 officers on duty for that particular shift (5 patrol cars) and that they were very stretched. Indeed, she said that he was fortunate the patrol car was in the vicinity. Evidence of underspending? Perhaps.

As, doubtless, you can gather from the content of many of the Forum's threads, street violence and public disorder is a key concern of Sheffielders. Some of these concerned Sheffielders probably voted you into office. So, RedRobbo, explain the current shortfall in the police budget to your public.

a life of luxary(sic), according to the sun perhaps?
You don't have to 'work it out' as long as you aren't unreasonable then you have no problem. Clearly chasing them down the street with your decorative katana is not reasonable. Breaking there arm in a scuffle, highly unlikely to see you prosecuted. Breaking it after knocking them out, (if they can prove it) then yes, unreasonable.

Originally posted by Joelc
Yeh, innocent people get left to pick up the pieces, whilst the low life scumbags get sent to jail for a life of luxary. Or they get a meanial sentance, which is nothing like the trama the victims have to go though, especally in the case of rapists, murderers etc. Prisoners get it better then a lot of law abiding families in the uk, and thats whrong in this day and age.

Oh, and the right to defend your home, if someone breaks into your house, you have to work out what "reasonable" force your allowed to use, in order not to get sued. I'm sorry, but if someone breaks into your house, you should be protected (as long as you dont kill them, except in extreme cases), a nice broken arm would be a good deterrant.

Joel

spartacus is typical of the do-gooders who are ruining society for decent folk. Don't reply to his posts. Send him to Forum Coventry. Ignore him.

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
Hell ya.

Killer ninjas or sommut.

To put them down good and proper, if you can't educate them, get rid of em (sounds a bit fascist that lol)


Too ****in right!

HO! HO! Nice try, Tomato.