they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

lets protest against protesters! :hihi:

they're only as annoying as the guranga people, and the market researchers... infact, down is full of annoying people...

Originally posted by thenewborn
they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

i saw a picture of the orange suited twits in the star yesterday, quite nice that they like defending the rights of terrorists:....... but hey im sure there all tucked up in there nice bed at mummy and daddies:o

Originally posted by thenewborn
they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion
We (still) have the right to protest in this country, thankfully.
You have the right to protest with your point of view.
Therefore so have others. It's called freedom of speech.
Whether you like what they are saying or not - thats the deal - otherwise there wouldn't be freedom of speech, would there.
There are plenty of countries in the world where you would be battered in public with a pick axe handle by the police/military for congregating around the local equivalent of a sandwich shop and protesting - and that would be for starters.

Pick axe handle source. Yeah, the police in Morocco did carry them when I last visited.

Originally posted by thenewborn
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

If I believed in a god I would take this as a gift. Sorry to wade in on a P.O.V./rant so early but you kind of ask for it...

The right to publicly demonstrate your protest against government decisions is one that has been fiercely defended in European democratic societies since the time of Plato (3rd & 4th century B.C.)

The consequences of denying people that right were illustrated most recently by the likes of Hitler (committed suicide in a bunker) and his generals (hanged in public by piano strings), Mussolini and his minstry (hanged by the feet from lamp-posts in Rome) and Fransisco Franco (his death-bed instruction was to re-throne the monarchy, who promptly swept his reforms aside and began a progressive approach to modernisation of the nation's infrastructure).

You may disagree with the protest, you may find the protest annoying, the protestors may even be breaking the law; but, Panda79, before you throw such a limp accusation as "defending the rights of terrorists" you should look to the terms of the protest...

The United States of America claims to be the world leader in tolerance of diversity and progressive development. Take a look at the nation's history in international policy and you'll see that that tolerance only extends to mild dissent among affluent Judeo-christian nations who govern with a western model of democracy.

If you haven't already; I hope you'll read Orwell's "1984" and Huxley's "Brave New World", as cautionary tales of what can happen when the people of a nation allow it's government to brain-wash them until they become little more than productive yet docile factory drones.

And no; I wasn't an "orange suited twit", but I do value my right as a citizen of a (semi-)democratic nation to state, in public, my disagreement with the government of the day (even if i did help to vote them in again, but that's another thread entirely...)

Everyone is born with the right to protest - even if we think its wrong - they have a right.

And equally people have the right to object to protestors interfering with them going about their daily activities.

That also is part of being in a democratic state. I guess that silent or even, dare I say, content, majority don't nede to demonstrate.

"What do we want?"

"Ummm.....well, most of it we've got."

Is not exactly a rallying call to the downtrodden masses.

I only really object to the hectoring 'rent-a-Trot' groups who accumulate on Fargate and encourage me to sign a petition by following with me with it. These folks have been around in one form or another with different campaigns for at least 20 years..... :)

Joe

so we have the right to protest against protestors? Seems a bit circular to me.

Originally posted by Cyclone
so we have the right to protest against protestors? Seems a bit circular to me.

Absolutely! Why not?

Seriously, the people who ARE happy with the status quo SHOULD be able to object to those who aren't!

Joe

Originally posted by thenewborn
they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

About as pointless as this thread!

I hate protesters, don't make me laugh!

Perhaps you hate some peoples methods of purporting their views, beliefs and objections?

It depends upon what they are actually protesting about, in most cases. If they are protesting about bad port, or the slicing of Stilton, as opposed to scooping [i.e, important issues that every subject of the Queen should be deeply concerned about], then I am well- disposed towards the coves.

However, if it is the usual collection of moist-eyed, horribly 'concerned' types, with lips quivering in a state of permanent indignation [a la John Pilger], blocking the flow of traffic in order to 'make poverty history', then I openly advocate pelting them with eggs. Many of these self-righteous lefties are really rather lonely people in private life [or at least one suspects so], and a well-aimed egg in the face might make all the difference to them.

Well Newborn. Lets just hope your never in the wrong place at the wrong time and accused of something you did not do. I am sure you would not want anyone to protest your innocence so we can all just leave you to rot!
:)

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Absolutely! Why not?

Seriously, the people who ARE happy with the status quo SHOULD be able to object to those who aren't!

Joe

is it a valid basis for objection. I object that you are not happy. Well, if the majority object to some people being unhappy, the quickest way to solve it is to make them happy. Simply objecting to someone being unhappy is unlikely to achieve anything.

Originally posted by timo
It depends upon what they are actually protesting about, in most cases. If they are protesting about bad port, or the slicing of Stilton, as opposed to scooping [i.e, important issues that every subject of the Queen should be deeply concerned about], then I am well- disposed towards the coves.

However, if it is the usual collection of moist-eyed, horribly 'concerned' types, with lips quivering in a state of permanent indignation [a la John Pilger], blocking the flow of traffic in order to 'make poverty history', then I openly advocate pelting them with eggs. Many of these self-righteous lefties are really rather lonely people in private life [or at least one suspects so], and a well-aimed egg in the face might make all the difference to them.

everyone has the right to protest though, not just those that you agree with or sympathise with.

Cyclone,
How would you define 'happiness'? It is surely relative and entirely subjective? That is the problem with the line in the American constitution about the 'right to pursue happiness', if I have quoted it correctly. One person's happiness may well be another's nightmare.

Originally posted by xafier
lets protest against protesters! :hihi:


Sorry, not as an original thought as you think:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/

Originally posted by timo
Cyclone,
How would you define 'happiness'? It is surely relative and entirely subjective? That is the problem with the line in the American constitution about the 'right to pursue happiness', if I have quoted it correctly. One person's happiness may well be another's nightmare.

true, so the government gets put in a no win situation where one group will always be unhappy and there will always be a certain group protesting.
I guess that's when the government ministers get to earn there 50k annual salary and find a compromise that both sides agree too.

In this case though, ending poverty wouldn't make anyone unhappy, the unhappiness is caused by a bit of inconvenience because of the unhappy people protesting.
(It may not be within the power of our government to achieve the protestors aims, but that's not the point).

The worst protesters are peace protesters what we want to do is get them in the army and see how life in Iraq is for a British soldier. How would you feel if you had just risked your life for your country and you come home to have people shouting at you telling you your wrong in what you have done. We should should show more support for our troops in Irag and other countries.

Originally posted by Phil03
The worst protesters are peace protesters what we want to do is get them in the army and see how life in Iraq is for a British soldier. How would you feel if you had just risked your life for your country and you come home to have people shouting at you telling you your wrong in what you have done. We should should show more support for our troops in Irag and other countries.

We should also consider why they are even in some of these countries.

I don't much care for your run of the mill protestor.

In my experience they're holier than thou, road blocking, sanctimonious scruffbags with organically grown chips on their shoulders - BUT - they do have the right protest about injustices to themselves or others even if I disagree with their moral or political stance.

Waving placards is one method of protest, writing a sh*tty letter to the editor of the daily mail is another - the message is the same only the method differs.

The fact that we're able to protest is because we're free, you may not like the protestors but you have to like having the ability to do so should you choose to. If your lot in life sucks ass then get off yours and do something about it - wave a placard, write a letter ..... hell, even post on an online forum. Just do something.

Originally posted by Cyclone
is it a valid basis for objection. I object that you are not happy. Well, if the majority object to some people being unhappy, the quickest way to solve it is to make them happy. Simply objecting to someone being unhappy is unlikely to achieve anything.

I think I see what you're getting at.

What I meant was that protesting by the 'great majority' at the antics of a minority who may find fault in everything that anyone tries to do whilst never deigning to try and uefully change the system in a way that will stick is a valid act.

Quite a few protestors are genuine - they wish for engagement and discussion so that change can be made. And let's face it - if you're serious about what you're protesting about, you're there to make change happen. So the way to do it is to make your point, get hearts and minds on side, make good arguments and start the slow struggle of eventually getting people to your viewpoint.

The 'rent a cause' protesters remind me of the film character who, when asked 'What are you rebelling against?' replied 'What have you got?'.

And the main thing that winds me up about so many protestors is the sanctimonious attitude. If you disagree with them you're either misguided, ignorant, heartless, a fascist - provide your own words here.

I doubt that some protestors are out to change the world; they're just there to confirm their position in it as someone who will always find it easier to be 'anti-' something rather than do the real work behind the scenes to make change stick. If you want a good intellectual game, just start asking some of the groups on Fargate what THEIR policies on various issues would be if they had power.

Disaffection is easy to cultivate and harvest. But winding up large numbers of people plays in to the hands of the people who would maintain the status quo. It's easy for authority to label protest groups as vocal minorities for as long as they adopt techniques and attitudes that disaffect many supporters from their cause.

Joe

I hate shoppers - they always get in the way of my protests. Randomly wandering around town, suddenly veering in to shops. So annoying.

The reason why they are they is that they can help secure peace in these countries and the countries they are in need peace. The thing that the news doesn't show you is that there are children walking around in Iraq because of the gassing's which Sadam ordered and the 12 year old children throwing bricks at your face and being shot at by the people they are trying to help only we can help secure a stable comunity in these countries.

Slightly off topic I know, but just want to respond to Phil03 post.

OK, so the 'allied' troops have been in Iraq for 18 months (or whatever), Saddam has been in prison for 6 months, there is a democratically elected government in power - how come there is still no peace in Iraq?

Originally posted by Voise
Slightly off topic I know, but just want to respond to Phil03 post.

OK, so the 'allied' troops have been in Iraq for 18 months (or whatever), Saddam has been in prison for 6 months, there is a democratically elected government in power - how come there is still no peace in Iraq?

Because we are not welcome there perhaps ?

I hate football fans. They're the worst of the lot. Smashing up town just for the sake of some chaps chasing a pigs bladder round a field.

Living in hillsborough I am constantly annoyed by these people - can't get anywhere when there's a match on. At least protesters are trying to do something (whether you think their reasons self righteous, stupid or whatever).

We are still ther because there might be a government but they don't actually do much the soldiers are still restoring order

Originally posted by Phil03
We are still ther because there might be a government but they don't actually do much the soldiers are still restoring order

pmsl

We went there on the premise of there being weapons of mass destruction and the U.S was at a 40 minute attack risk from Iraq.

This has be publicly denounced because it was a lie.

Unfortunately it cost Dr David Kelly his life and now thousands of civillians.

Restoring order my arse.

Originally posted by timo
It depends upon what they are actually protesting about, in most cases. If they are protesting about bad port, or the slicing of Stilton, as opposed to scooping [i.e, important issues that every subject of the Queen should be deeply concerned about], then I am well- disposed towards the coves.

Sliced stilton doesn't bother me as much as cold stilton does. The amount of lazy "cheese boards" I've had in supposedly decent restaurants where three miserable lumps of plastic matter (with unwashed grapes) have only been taken out of the fridge twenty seconds before being served...

Please, please, please keep on topic!

Thank you!

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I think I see what you're getting at. blah

Joe,

What a depressing outlook on things.. :( Your rent-a-cause Sheffield-heads surely put the same hard work and passion into helping the underdog as the thousands of left-wing, right-wing, independent, private, local or international charities, think-tanks, pressure groups, monitoring organisations, etc, etc.

I'm glad that Amnesty International dont ignore a cause just because something else might kick off later in the month.

I cant blame you for not wanting to listen to what these people have to say anymore, we all get tired. But before we criticise, we should go and test their knowledge, depth or passion for a subject. I hope we'd both be suprised.

Some people just like to keep an eye for when a helping hand or vocalisation is needed, so they can do their bit. I think there are much worse traits to have!

Originally posted by JoePritchard
And the main thing that winds me up about so many protestors is the sanctimonious attitude. If you disagree with them you're either misguided, ignorant, heartless, a fascist - provide your own words here.


This trait is far from confined to leftie types, mind. Witness the toffs foaming at the mouth of the pro-hunting march, many of whom (on the strength of various news reports) couldn't quite decide which issues they were indignant with and why.

Originally posted by thenewborn
they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion
theres more to life than getting blocked from entering a shop tbh....somethings people protest about are of the highest value to humanity. sometimes its good theres a few people who actually get off there arse and try to do something.....even if it is pointless, annoying and clearly not going to change anything.

Originally posted by panda79
i saw a picture of the orange suited twits in the star yesterday, quite nice that they like defending the rights of terrorists:....... but hey im sure there all tucked up in there nice bed at mummy and daddies:o
As they were wearing orange suits I expect that the protestors who upset you so were campaigning about Guantanamo Bay, therefore they were not “defending the rights of terrorists” but defending the rights of innocent men (as in innocent until proven guilty, remember that concept?), who have simply been accused of being terrorists. They have been imprisoned and appallingly mistreated for years, despite not having been convicted of anything or in many case even knowing what it is they are supposed to have done.

To put it simply panda those “orange suited twits” aren’t “defending the rights of terrorists” but defending your right not to be locked up and mistreated for years because somebody in the government thinks that you might be a terrorist, do you really find that so objectionable?

Originally posted by plekhanov
As they were wearing orange suits I expect that the protestors who upset you so were campaigning about Guantanamo Bay, therefore they were not “defending the rights of terrorists” but defending the rights of innocent men (as in innocent until proven guilty, remember that concept?), who have simply been accused of being terrorists. They have been imprisoned and appallingly mistreated for years, despite not having been convicted of anything or in many case even knowing what it is they are supposed to have done.

To put it simply panda those “orange suited twits” aren’t “defending the rights of terrorists” but defending your right not to be locked up and mistreated for years because somebody in the government thinks that you might be a terrorist, do you really find that so objectionable?

Unfortunatly, some people do not see past the end of their nose :(

'Windows (noun) : 32 bit extensions on a 16 bit interface for an 8 bit operating system for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company that doesn't care 1 bit' :hihi: :hihi: Nice 1 'melthebell'

Everyone is born with the right to protest - even if we think its wrong - they have a right.

That's not what you said about the Blades and West Ham saga Madun. :hihi:

If there are no protests, how do you expect owt to get done? African kids are starving, innocent people are victim of genocide in Iraq, etc. etc.

What's that bloke who constantly protests in London called, he is the man.

What's that bloke who constantly protests in London called, he is the man.

The man with no name.

What's that bloke who constantly protests in London called, he is the man.

Brian Haw (http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/) is indeed the man :hihi:

Brian Haw (http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/) is indeed the man :hihi:

I fought the Haw and the Haw...er...lost.

And equally people have the right to object to protestors interfering with them going about their daily activities.
That also is part of being in a democratic state. I guess that silent or even, dare I say, content, majority don't nede to demonstrate.

I'm so happy for you that you are one of the 'contented' majority and have 'no need' to demonstrate.
Can I assume that you are happy to ignore the plethora of causes, from child/animal welfare, to ecological destruction that so many people are giving up their time and money to protest about?
I think you are being slightly over-optimistic if you believe that the majority of people in this country are 'contented.

they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion
sorry they get in your way and spoil YOUR walk, maybe YOUR lives more important than other peoples. maybe one day somebody may need to protest on YOUR behalf.
dont be so self centered and selfish

they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

why would you want a pasty from gregs when the original pasty company is just up the road?

they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

It was exactly this kind of ignorant apathetic attitude on the part of the majority of the German public that allowed Hitler to get away with it!

And the main thing that winds me up about so many protestors is the sanctimonious attitude.

Joe

takes one to know one...

they always get in my way when im walking around town!! a group about releasing iraaqi refugees or something like that once blatantly blocked me off from walking to the moor, i wanted my pasty from gregs, im sure it was on purpose, they just appeared and blocked my way on fargate. and then the stupid ones with orange boiler suits all this week, well they are just pointless.
sorry my pov, this is more of a rant than a discussion

You sir are a buffoon but this is pretty good trolling. Please take your protests elsewhere, like oh I don't know, town or something

Cyclone,
How would you define 'happiness'? It is surely relative and entirely subjective? That is the problem with the line in the American constitution about the 'right to pursue happiness', if I have quoted it correctly. One person's happiness may well be another's nightmare.Your quote about the constitution is almost correct ' Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Note that there is no attempt to define what happiness is. Merely that no matter what your definition is about what it is you are free to go for it. However, not stated is that it can't include certain aspects of that happiness. If a shot of heroin makes you happy then it makes the police happy to put you in jail, likewise a bank heist.

i saw a picture of the orange suited twits in the star yesterday, quite nice that they like defending the rights of terrorists:....... but hey im sure there all tucked up in there nice bed at mummy and daddies:o

Do you happen to read either the Daily Mail or The Sun?