People on SF are starting to notice that everything isn't rosy in the world of dogs in Sheffield

We're starting to have questions asked about what roles the various charities play, what Spring Street kennels is and does, where dogs go when they're lost, and whether dogs are still put to sleep in this city

Those of us on the front line have been banging our heads against brick walls for a while, but we're starting to see some small improvements... we'd like to see more though

We're questioning the whole 'cradle to grave' process of how a dog winds up in rescue. We're examining the roles various bodies have, and we'd like to see some better information available to not only dog owners, but potential dog owners

The first issue is the number of stray dogs picked up which we suspect have been kicked out from owners not being able to afford vet fees. How many people know that if they are in receipt of housing benefit they can take their pet to the PDSA for treatment (preferably for a donation), or that there are rescue centres now offering training sessions for pet owners who can't cope with their boisterous growing pup?

There doesn't seem to be a one stop shop to find places which give information like this

I'd like to see the council and other animal services in this city making use of billboards to inform the public of vital info like this (especially if it helps a dog stay in its home). The council could host a webpage of links for information for owners to assist them in taking care of their pets instead of giving up on them, and that web address advertised across the city

Better information should be given about WHERE pets should or shouldn't be bought from, and who you hand money over to - as there seem to be too many similar looking crossbreeds of the same age cropping up in the pound too! I suspect those weren't ethically bred or sold, and here's a dog who could wind up being PTS if a second home isn't found - but that's okay - whoever bred those pups has spent that cash now

Sorry for the ramble, but if you have any further ideas on the whole issue, please take the time to put them down here in a detailed and considered fashion

I know it might only help a limited number of people but would a thread here help, giving the details... plus contact details if possible of training clubs, behaviourists or charities that can help when we have problems with our dogs.

The thread could then be incorporated into the stickies so that group users could refer to it when someone needed advice and help with a dog (as often happens) it would be a way of getting good solid help for people and dogs in need.

What do you all think?

the group used to be set up that way but some of the stickies got merged or lost, so what used to be a useful resource here turned to mush :(

I'd be more than happy to help restructure the information available through this group

Strix You are right a concerted effort is certainly needed, however this needs to be structured and organised, I think you will find a great reluctance for each individual area to release its own responsibility. Lets face it the main person responcible is the dogs owner, I believe that most people wont go to a Vet or the PDSA with their animals as they are ashamed of the condition that they have let it get into, its not always financial, the RSPCA should be more involved in helping people rather than wanting to prosecute, they might find a better response, prosecution should be undertaken where neglect and abuse has occoured, help should be provided otherwise this might lead to less "Dumped" animals on the streets.

Strix I believe that most people wont go to a Vet or the PDSA with their animals as they are ashamed of the condition that they have let it get into, its not always financial, the RSPCA should be more involved in helping people rather than wanting to prosecute, they might find a better response, prosecution should be undertaken where neglect and abuse has occoured, help should be provided otherwise this might lead to less "Dumped" animals on the streets.

Actually I absolutely agree with you on this, if (for what ever reason) a pet gets into a mess, I can well see that the fear of prosecution and shame would stop people seeking help, then ultimately all that is left is either to watch it slowly suffer and die, or to dump the animal and hope that it is looked after.

I wonder if some kind of amnesty would work, by a animal charity or even a vet where animals could be treated either free or where people could spread the cost of treatment out in affordable payments.

I've utilised the free services in my distant past from the PDSA - they are a valuable and abused resource. People in work have issues supporting a dog, people in and out of work have issues with training of dogs and aftercare.
But and here's the big but - not everyone is a dog lover and not everyone wishes there money or taxes to finance dog lovers or pet lovers in general, so charity is always going to be the only way.
I still think that a system of paid licensing would help. Upon the first visit or registration at the vet - names of the owners and the breeders should be compiled. A fee should then be payable to pay for the vets time and also to contribute to a benevolent fund.
The database could identify backstreet breeders,irresponsibe breeders etc and also "repeat" clients - questions should be asked of someone accessing charitable vet services with numerous dogs and cats.

I'm not after clobbering people here, I'm looking for the antidote to the numerous posters we get here who don't have a clue and want to know more

The more information which is freely available and easily accessible, the easier it is to tackle the root causes of the problems we see here in our own city

The point in wanting the council on board with this is that it's the council who are footing the bill for picking up strays and paying for a vet to make them at least comfortable for the obligatory seven days

I sometimes wonder whether free dog training classes would help one heck of a lot of the dogs who find themselves in the pound. A fantastically large proportion of them are a heck of a handful with no evidence of any training - and it has to be asked, did they wind up in the pound because their owner couldn't cope with a young fully grown dog who pulls on the lead, can't sit on command, etc etc

I'm not suggesting that the council should foot the bill for training classes, but they certainly have one heck of a lot of notice boards which could be utilised if they get themselves organised with the likes of the RSPCA to tackle this

the group used to be set up that way but some of the stickies got merged or lost, so what used to be a useful resource here turned to mush :(

I'd be more than happy to help restructure the information available through this group

Well it would be a start, and we need to start somewhere, the better informed the public are the better for our dogs.

As a transplanted American used to dog licensing schemes, I am curious: what is the opposition to such a thing being instituted here? My (English) hubby and I have been talking about this a lot recently, and he's not really sure. To my mind, some sort of licensing scheme would create a revenue flow to support some of the animal services that are so desperately needed.

Just to illustrate an example, in the county I came from, dog owners are required by law to obtain a tag (license) for their dog aged 6 months or older. In order to get the tag, you must provide proof of rabies vaccination, and pay a fee ($70 for 3 years if animal is not neutered, half price if they are.)

Actually I absolutely agree with you on this, if (for what ever reason) a pet gets into a mess, I can well see that the fear of prosecution and shame would stop people seeking help, then ultimately all that is left is either to watch it slowly suffer and die, or to dump the animal and hope that it is looked after.

I wonder if some kind of amnesty would work, by a animal charity or even a vet where animals could be treated either free or where people could spread the cost of treatment out in affordable payments.

It could also be said that if services were better coordinated between one another, and word about services was got out better, fewer folks would find themselves in positions where they were struggling with shame.

Anyway, the point is a good one. Myself, I would like to see publicity that is less about threatening, and more about encouraging people. It's never too late to do the right thing, is it?

You are all correct in a way society seems to be all for punishing people with problems not assisting, the "dog license" was abolished years ago due to administration costing more than the actual license cost, it would need to be quite a heafty fee now to make it workable, how many more abandoned dogs would this lead to on our streets, or how many owners who had not bought a license would be reluctant to reclaim their dog if they did not have one.

The issue on dog training is great how many of the irresponsible crowd would you think might turn up for these classes, or would it be just us reponsible owners who keep an eye on or dogs who make sure that they have a collar and tag on with our details, so if it does accidently get lost we can be notified

I would happily pay a license fee of £25 per year to be able to keep my dogs, how many others would want this, if we all volunteer I am sure that the government would look at this if enough people join in, it would need a new piece of legislation and of course an offence penalty for anyone who didnt sign up, why simply not make it an offence to keep a dog, sell a dog, breed a dog without some form of paperwork/micrchip etc (like a car) how many unregistered cars are on the road ?, who would police this ?. How much contovacy would any new legislation cause.

Is it all down to enforcemet or persuasion !!!!!

Not quite the answer but it reminds me of Dog Codes of Conduct leaflets you get when visiting various national parks and country side, maybe we could have an urban version for people visiting parks and streets and slip in some behaviour hints and help notes.

Can we stop talking about licencing please? I don't fancy paying for nothing (coz you can bet your bottom dollar revenue won't be going towards dog services), for something that's unpoliceable, when the irresponsible people will carry on as though nothing has happened - and I know enough people with several dogs who can ill afford to fork out for an additional expense for no benefit!

The issue of dog tags on collars is interesting. People here have stopped applying them thanks to some scaremongering in the media about dog thefts and tags being a fantastic facility for blackmailing you - yeah right!

Tag or no tag, if you're going to be blackmailed, you're going to be blackmailed - the current method is to swipe a dog and wait for the 'reward' posters to go up (often funded by insurance companies - and it wasn't a problem before they started offering this)

If your dog gets lost without a tag, what happens next? It HAS to go to the pound to be scanned, then you're fined somewhere in the region of £75 before you can have it back (assuming you've microchipped your animal). Vets can scan, but they'll trot out some nonsense about the data protection act to the finder anyway, so that doesn't help (see classicrock's thread on her dog and his nightmare story)

I've lost Brude once - and was phoned mobile to mobile by another dog walker - so had him back within ten minutes

A better understanding of the system would help people make better informed choices about such 'security' measures

there has got to be a better way?

I apologise for bringing up the issue of licensing; if you read back, I was truly just trying to understand why it isn't done here at all. Sorry, just trying to brainstorm with others about how to create an animal regulation and protection system that works for everyone.

I was only trying to share an outsider's POV and (lack of) understanding of what seems to be a very convoluted system.

It's okay Schiann - I wasn't directing my comment at you :)

We've debated licencing on a number of occasions, and it always goes round in circles and gets heated, and doesn't achieve anything

I'm ded set against anything which makes owning a dog elitist - for some their dog is all they have left, and I certainly wouldn't take that from them for the sake of a piece of paper

Ah, see, that helps. A "dog license" means something entirely different to Americans.

We're all conditioned to accept specific things the way they are without question, so when we encounter something different we find it odd - I like to question from first principles and take a theory to bits along the way to test if it works ;)

the problem we're trying to discuss on this thread is perceived to be about a certain group in society (who are already lawless, and have a higher than average figure for unlicenced and uninsured vehicles, so trying to impose licences on their dogs isn't going to make the blindest bit of difference to them - they won't have one, and their dog will still be loose on the street)