story here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=352708&in_page_id=1770)

whatever next :loopy: :rant:

Originally posted by robbie
story here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=352708&in_page_id=1770)

whatever next :loopy: :rant:

murdered and chopped into little bits then blood smeared all over the guilty parties is obviously the next step, all filmed on video and shown to every child in the country

:rant:

damn, thats the sickest thing I've read for a while.. what IS happening to the youth of today? gawd I'm only 20 myself but I sware things have drastically gone downhill with children in the last 5 years or so... my own brother seems to be slipping into this evil chav, no respect for anyone culture... no respect for me, or my parents, swearing like a trooper... its rediculas!

This is absolutely absurd!

I guess I'm showing my age, because camera phones and such weren't available when I was a kid.

But I will NEVER understand people who commit crimes, then tape themselves doing it!! And it's usually young people. What on earth are they thinking?!

There have been crimes prosecuted in the states, where the ONLY evidence was the video made by the criminals themselves! Idiots!

Well, guess the authorities have all the proof they need to send these three geniuses up the river for awhile.

:) Sierra

It seems that the assailants seem younger and the crimes seem more vicious.....


No such thing as innocent childhoods anymore, children are growing up with hatred and resentment for others.

I remember when I was a kid. Yes, there was rebellion and the odd prank. But now kids have taken things to a sickening and twisted extreme....

If these pointless 'trends' weren't broadcast through the media then surely they wouldn't grow.

I guess it's all in the name of the all-pervasive god
"having-a-laff". Sick freaks, I just wish there was something you and I could do about it. Like cracking their heads open with a baseball bat.... Yeah, not PC, or even legal, but very, very moral...

Is it me or has respect for sex become virtually non-existant among certain groups of teenage boys (and some girls)? Maybe we are seeing the results of sex and the persuit of it being everywhere. From hearing how some teenage boys talk about women and girls it seems there is at least part of the new generation growing up with little or no respect for women, who think that women literally are only good for one thing, and do not even seem to think that feelings come into sexuality.

I know that it is unfair to generalise this to all young people, it is only a tiny minority who seem to be like this. But what is scary is that it seems to be becoming a more common attitude among young men than it used to be.

I don't think it's a gender thing. It's about "I know my rights" and "I'm alright Jack". Women are becoming more violent too. One of my mates is currently nursing a nasty black eye because some lass saw fit to throw a pint glass at her.

Originally posted by banesmabes
*snip*From hearing how some teenage boys talk about women and girls it seems there is at least part of the new generation growing up with little or no respect for women. *snip* But what is scary is that it seems to be becoming a more common attitude among young men than it used to be.

To be fair, it's not only young men who talk like this about women, older ones can be even worse, and always have been, and of course, there are always some of our "sisters" ready to shoot us down too. You only have to look at some fairly recent postings on this Forum to see a certain attitude towards women. Generalisations, derogatory names bandied around, criticisms of the way women choose to dress, what and how they should drink, where and how they should go or travel around ... the list is endless. What amazes me is that men in the 21st c should even consider that they have the right to make these comments.

I find it quite depressing ...

Is it not right to point out that this assault is only alleged at the moment? It shouldn't be taken as fact until its been to trial, not from the daily mail, anyway!

my lawyers are safe as I'm quoting the Daily Mail ;)

Originally posted by kathythebean
Is it not right to point out that this assault is only alleged at the moment? It shouldn't be taken as fact until its been to trial, not from the daily mail, anyway!

The story's here too...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1659528,00.html

If they're found guilty they need to be castrated without an anaesthetic, and a video recording of the punishment sent to all their mates :evil: :mad:

Originally posted by rubydazzler
To be fair, it's not only young men who talk like this about women, older ones can be even worse, and always have been, and of course, there are always some of our "sisters" ready to shoot us down too. You only have to look at some fairly recent postings on this Forum to see a certain attitude towards women. Generalisations, derogatory names bandied around, criticisms of the way women choose to dress, what and how they should drink, where and how they should go or travel around ... the list is endless. What amazes me is that men in the 21st c should even consider that they have the right to make these comments.

I find it quite depressing ...

Did you hear Bernie Ecclestone on Sky News, about the woman coming 4th in US Racing - he thought women were better dressed in white, like kitchen appliances. What-a-guy!

From the Time weblink.....

'John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister, also told of how his minders had to step in when he was confronted by a gang of hooded youths in a motorway service station, one of whom had a video camera'..........

I wonder, did they step in to save old' Two Jags or to save the hooded menaces from the portly Deputy fiery fists of fury :D

Maybe he flew into a rage when they came towards him asking questions and recording it, so he let rip with a barrage of hooks, uppercuts and jabs.

wonder what the liberal apollogists will have to say to justify their behaviour this time? Get them off with ASBO's & free travel tickets somewhere exotic?

I'm thinking of reporting the 'Great' bit of Great Britain to trading standards.

:mad:

Why have they called it 'Happy Slapping'? Is it just 'cos it was filmed on a mobile phone? Surely rape is a bit different from slapping.

so why was an 11yrs old in the house with these boys in the first place???? Should she not have been at home doing her Home work.

Originally posted by SUNCADDIE7
so why was an 11yrs old in the house with these boys in the first place???? Should she not have been at home doing her Home work.

yes, because children should never be allowed out.

Originally posted by SUNCADDIE7
so why was an 11yrs old in the house with these boys in the first place???? Should she not have been at home doing her Home work.

What 11-year-old girl would think that she could potentially be raped by boys who are not that much older than her and who she considers to be friends? Sorry to get on my high horse about this, but why is it that when a rape is reported, people automatically look for ways to blame the victim for what has happened?

This story is shocking. Oh my god! What is going on with the world? Kids have got quite a frightening attitude to sex (IMHO).

For example, has anyone else heard about 'daisy-chaining'?

Apparently, it involves a group of boys/girls in a circle. They have a shag for 5 minutes then move on to the next. This is going on in Sheffield and have had this verified by a teacher who has been told about from several pupils. Brings 'spin the bottle' to a whole new level.

You reckon its a wind up? Unfortunately I doubt it. I have heard worse tales from the kids I work with.

It just proves that the world is doing down the plug hole....
as a youth i always remember my gran telling me the "when i was young storys," be good to hear what this lot have to say in another 50-60 years time......:suspect:

Sorry to be a sceptic, but I don't think daisy chaining really happens.

When I was at skosh, there were many stories uttered about the goings on involved in a "Mars Bar Party" or playing "Soggy Biscuit" . .

If you think about the realistics of it, you honestly know that, the above never really happened.

'Fraid to burst your bubble mate but it DOES happen. When it goes too far, it gets to Court and the whole sorry story comes out (so to speak).

i couldnt believe it when i saw this in the paper, i am 21 now, and would never have dreamed of doing anything so messed up. i have a young son and it scares me what he could fall into when he is older, what has been said is right, the youth are getting worse and its a disgrace. they just dont seem to know right from wrong, i blame the fact that everything is becoming far too PC these days, and altho i am not one to agree with bringing back the cane - maybe it wouldnt hurt!!!!! JMO

A while back I visited someone's house and their son (aged about 9) playing a video game. The game was rated as only suitable for older people but this lad's father deemed it ok for his son to play.

I was shocked by what i saw - it was a game where 'blokes' beat up and shoot prostitutes!!! The language and actions made me feel physically sick. If young people are allowed to watch/play this sort of thing when they are still at a very impressionable and vulnerable stage in their development it's not too surprising that they are developing a deep seated lack of respect and consideration for other people.

Add this to the current situation where young people are not punished and tought right from wrong, are not tought to respect other people (peers and elders) and fear no-one because they are 'protected' from punishment by a perverse system, then what is happening now can only get worse.

The Government better start a massive prison building programme because the majority of young people today will end up locked up as soon as they are old enough because they are being brought up with totally the wrong messages about what is and is not acceptable behaviour. Then they will wonder what on eath has hit them - and it will be too late to change their deep-seated patterns of behaviour and beliefs. We are heading for a generation of people where the majority are dysfunctional rather than the minority - as we have at the moment.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
wonder what the liberal apollogists will have to say to justify their behaviour this time? Get them off with ASBO's & free travel tickets somewhere exotic?

I'm thinking of reporting the 'Great' bit of Great Britain to trading standards.

:mad:

I blame the parents.

If people gave a tinkers cuss about bringing their children up to be human beings, we wouldn't end up with such bestial kids.

If they are found guilty you could string them up in public, and flay them alive, and offer the fairgoing punters a chance to rub salt in their wounds for a small donation to charity - and it still wouldn't prevent the next trio of feral runaways from dropping babies in the canal etc.

Child crime like this is another (sad) fact of life. The more supportive and nurturing society is to its children, the less you get of this sort of thing. It's been at a pretty stable level for some time, and, as in many cases, the sheer volume of news media that needs to be filled is what dictates peoples' awareness of it, not the actual frequency.

A culture of cruelty and pleasure at the discomfort of others merely fuels the cruel streak in a neglected and lonely child. And with only a peer group to look to for moral pointers, it's unsurprising that children like these can justify the vilest action to themselves enough to carry it out.

Calling for retribution, for an equal or even grossly disproportionate amount of pain to be meted out to the offenders is an understandable reaction to any horrific crime that touches the emotive centres.

Expressing thoughts like this is a coping strategy; But to carry out brutal physical retributions for violent crime in reality, as a part of the rule of law, would be an utterly retrograde step.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Expressing thoughts like this is a coping strategy; But to carry out brutal physical retributions for violent crime in reality, as a part of the rule of law, would be an utterly retrograde step.

Why would it be? Surely the "eye for an eye" strategy would bring some sense of responsibility back into our culture, which seems to have absolved itself of the burden.

For a 'civilised' society to resort to un-civilised punishment does not tackle the root cause of the problem IMHO.

I also don't believe (have no facts so can't be certain) that all of these kids who are behaving in this manner are 'lonely and uncared' for.

They have received bad examples from somewhere - parents, peers, television, video games or whatever. They are too young to realise the full consequences of their actions and are not being taught or encouraged to behave in a more respectful and law abiding way, but society and the ridiculous Government policies. Kids will push and push the boundaries to see how far they can go - that's a natural way for them to act. What society needs to do is be clear about what the boundaries are and enforce them in such a way that the kids are very clear about where the line is drawn and what will happen to them if they cross it. That clear distinction is currently lacking.

I dont have a solution, but I do have bits of explanations I think.

For one thing, children "grow up" more quickly now than they did say 40 years ago. The technological revolution, with 24 hour television, mobile phones, internet and PCs means that they are exposed to more video games and clips, films and tv programmes (and well meaning parents) giving them access to bigger or smaller bits of sex and violence, despite their young age.

When I was 12 the culture did not really permit us to watch scary, violent or sexy stuff on tv or film. We did not all have videos, there was no internet, tv only had three channels and a strongly enforced watershed. Films were still violent I expect but more likely to be graded 18 and you could not get into cinemas pretending to be 18 when you were 12.

So today children see more sex and violence and have access to more of it for longer hours. With the best will in the world parents find it hard to keep them away from such scenes.

And a young mind can unfortunately use this knowledge in its efforts to fit in and to show its prowess and in particular find new ways of being cruel to each other.

This latter is nothing new, children have been vile to one another for ever. But they have new tools and new scripts now. I think that is what I am trying to say.

Perhaps there would have been rapes recorded on mobile phones 40 years ago if the children had the technology and the steady diet of violent images to feed the imagination.

I dont think they are any more nasty and vicious now than before, just better equipped and more imaginative.

Parents find it difficult... I don't follow your reasoning at all.

Video's, under parental control.
Sky, under parental control.
Mobiles, parents buy them, so get one without video replay.
Internet, under parental control.
TV, under parental control.

So, unless the kid is going into the city at a young age and getting into movies they shouldn't, then it's completely down to the parents what they get to see via the media, via games and via films.
And if the kid has the level of freedom to do that then the parents should be keeping a closer eye on where they are and what they are doing.

Most of these problems are down to bad parenting (as Phan was saying). Tackle this problem, it's the root cause. Punishing the individuals involved (which should obviously happen) isn't going to deter any other youths. Deterents are fairly ineffective anyway, most criminals believe that they won't be caught. And people below 18 (for women) and 25 (for men) are still developing a part of the brain that deals with predicting consequences, so a 14 year old is even more convinced that nothing bad will come of any action.

The base line of this argument seems to be - young people today KNOW they can get away with crime.

The current system offers no deterrent. Parents, many of them too young themselves, are not even allowed to bring up their children with the realities of - actions have consequences.

Once the 'child' becomes an adult and behaves in the same way they always have, then they are potentially imprisoned, but by this time it is too late for many of them to realise what their actions have led to and they then learn more about crime from their imprisonment.

Yes there must be a programme of re-habilitation, of getting people to see what they are doing is wrong. But, before that stage we should be able to teach children the difference between right and wrong and teach them it is unacceptable in today's society to act the way they are doing. The current policies do not address this problem.

I wonder if the current Government is carrying out some strange social experiment? I can't see any other reason why the victims of crime are the one's being punished? Why are young people getting away with acting like they do? Where are the deterrants? Where are the punishments? Where do we draw the line?

Parents have the prime responsibility for the control and correct upbringing of their children, yet much of that has been taken out of their hands. Children these days cry 'human rights' or 'child protection' when a caring parent tries to correct their behaviour with anything other than a reward.

Of course children must be protected from abuse, but they must also be taught respect and the difference between right and wrong. Abuse of children is the worst crime possible, but is not teaching children the correct way to behave also a form of abuse?

I use the term 'children' rather than 'young people' because I strongly believe that children are not young people. They have not developed the mental capacity to be young people until they are 18. I may sound draconian sometimes but there is scientific evidence to show that children, though physically mature, are not fully mentally mature until beyond the age of 17.

Children should be able to enjoy the innocence and pleasure of childhood, protected from evil and abuse, they should also be nurtured and encouraged to respect life and the laws (written or unwritten) of how to live in harmony in society. This role is the prime responsibility of the parents, backed up by the education system and by society as a whole.

how is it that parents are not allowed to bring their children up properly.
I guess you mean they can no longer spank them, if that's your idea of a good bringing up then you need to do some more research on the subject. You'll also note that a child can still be smacked, just not excessivley hard.

thats one of the sickest things I've ever heard, I hope these idiots grow out of this happpy slapping phase sooon

I was discussing a different issue entirely with a friend the other night, and suddenly I realised that we were talking about a potential solution to what to do with these constant re-offenders. Something that to me would be more palatable than shipping them off abroad. If say they get to the said number of offences, instead of these daft ASBOs or time in some detention centre, why not give them compulsory military service?

I know some people may think, great, send these anti-social idiots off to learn how to be professional killers. But the Army wouldn't put up with any crap from them. They would learn how to do what they are told, to respect authority, discipline, they would be able to learn a trade, etc. And it would help to solve the Army's recruitment problems!

For some reason I couldn't get the original story mentioned on the first posting but I can hazard a guess what it was about.
I find it amazing that over the past 3 or 4 decades , various state agencies must have spent billions of pounds of YOUR money on sex education , gender equality , how we should all have respect for each other......blah.....blah.....blah.....and the total effect has been either ZILCH or , perhaps even worse , maybe the constant nanny-type advice has driven a lot of teenagers into doing the opposite of what their told -----as teenagers seem to have done to various extents throughout history.
The same with the C.R.E. They've been advising and cajoling for years about how we should all respect each other's ethnic backgrounds but then go on to say that racialism is still rife in our society ; not done much good , has it ? ....but , cost a fortune.
The answer to teenage violence may , hopefully , soon be found , although neither of the two main parties seem to have a clue how to stop it. However , after all this time and after spending a hell of a lot of OUR money , I think it's time the ,"liberal" apologists for our young criminals , the , "hand-wringers" , the whole lot of them should now admit that THEIR policies , at least have had no effect and that it's time we tried something new------and preferably cheaper. We must be one of the few societies in the world where we let deadheads make millions of people's lives a misery and we just roll over and say , "Well , what can you do ? You can't chastise children[sic!] "
It could be that the Do-Gooders tend not to live in areas where people suffer the full brunt of violence and vandalism ------plus they get a good salary for as long as the problem lasts !["The Government must give us more money "]. Your money , that is !

I know that the human rights brigade would have a lot to say about conscription, but again they can't say that the offenders weren't warned that this could be the result of their actions if they don't stop re-offending. And it can be argued that this kind of action is actually giving the offenders the opportunity to really change their lives for the better (and as a result, change the lives of those in the communities where they live). We're not talking about shipping everyone who commits a single offence off to army camp.

Many other countries in Europe actually still have conscription for all young people, admittedly most give the choice of doing military service or community work, but in this case I think it would be safe to argue that that choice has been sacrificed by the offenders prior behaviour.

I also think that the human rights brigade would have a fair few things to say about deportation. Not to mention the reaction of neighbouring countries. How do you think Argentina would react if we started sending all our convicts to the Falklands? And what about the already law-biding citizens who live on the inhabited islands in the area? Would you be happy if there were a group of islands relatively close to Britain that another country decided to start using as a giant penal colony? Because where would the first stop be for these people if they managed to escape from the island?

The thing is would the army WANT a bunch of no good convicts in there ranks.The british army these days is a much more proffessional outfit,possibly more so than at any stage in the past,and I doubt many in the military would welcome the armed forces becoming a dumping ground for societies waifs and strays.

Originally posted by Annoni_mouse
The thing is would the army WANT a bunch of no good convicts in there ranks.The british army these days is a much more proffessional outfit,possibly more so than at any stage in the past,and I doubt many in the military would welcome the armed forces becoming a dumping ground for societies waifs and strays.

Many young men who go into the Army do have criminal records, and often make the decision to join up because they have 'mispent' their teenage years and find it difficult to get work elsewhere. Yes, I doubt the Army would be jumping up to sign these people up as officer material, but I'm sure they're happy to accept most people as infantry. The Forces can provide the kind of discipline that these people have never had, and it is often the making of many young men who had no direction/discipline before.

Originally posted by banesmabes
Many young men who go into the Army do have criminal records, and often make the decision to join up because they have 'mispent' their teenage years and find it difficult to get work elsewhere. Yes, I doubt the Army would be jumping up to sign these people up as officer material, but I'm sure they're happy to accept most people as infantry. The Forces can provide the kind of discipline that these people have never had, and it is often the making of many young men who had no direction/discipline before.

While I agree to a certain extent with what you say about the army attracting unsavoury types,the point I was making is that even the infantry can no longer be considered to be merely "cannon fodder" as they were in the past.The modern infantryman has to display a range of skills,not least of which is good judgement,something these morons have proven themselves incapable of.

Originally posted by Annoni_mouse
While I agree to a certain extent with what you say about the army attracting unsavoury types,the point I was making is that even the infantry can no longer be considered to be merely "cannon fodder" as they were in the past.The modern infantryman has to display a range of skills,not least of which is good judgement,something these morons have proven themselves incapable of.

No, they may not have this when they start out, but I am a great believer that the Army is a great developer of people. There are not that many people who are truly hopeless, they just have to get past the stage of thinking they already know it all (which would happen pretty fast in the army), and I think they would surprise themselves as well as others with what they are actually capable of once they stop acting like idiots.