Hi

Hoping that someone on here can give me some advice.

I have a 10 month old cocker spaniel who is generally a very placid and loving dog, but he has stated snapping at strangers and 1) i don't like this behaviour and 2) I wan't to do whatever I can to nip it in the bud.

I have contacted the vet which is the advice given on the web sites i have looked at and they were not much use at all. I don't think the reason is medical, every one i have spoke to regarding this has suggeted that he is just protecting me, which i don't mind but i want the agression to stop.

The background is: He comes to work with me every day and had his bed in my office, when anyone comes into my office he has started to bark when they come in and snap if they go near him, there will always be someone coming in and out of my office so i cannot change that, I have had to tether him now whilst in the office so he only has a certain range.

There has also been an occasion in the last few weeks where a post man has entered the gate at home whilst he was in the yard and the post man reccons he bit him, i was actually present in the yard with him and i didn't think he bit him, what seemed to happen was he caught him with his claw, which had just been clipped the day before.

Please help i am so worried that if this aggression continues i will end up loosing my dog.

Hello,

I'm having the same issue with my dog at the moment! She's a 4 year old miniature schnauzer, we've had her for almost a year. When we got her she had no confidence what so ever, but over the last year slowly but surely that has been coming out, to the degree now where she's getting a bit too big for her boots!

Same as you, she comes to work with me everyday. But just since xmas she has started barking at anyone who comes into the office that doesn't work here. I too have become very worried about it, I know she's guarding me/us and this is very much her territory, she loves coming to work. But I, like you have decided I HAVE to nip this in the bud sooner rather than later. So this week I have contacted Phil Jackson, he's a behavioral specialist. I had a good long chat with him and have booked in with him for an assessment. He comes to your home, meets the dog, and you, makes a pan for you to work on for the problems you are experiencing. He sounded lovely on the phone and understood exactly what the problem was. he made me feel confident that I can control the situation, but I need some guidance.

PM me if you want his number, maybe we can chat more and see how one another are getting on!

Hope this helps you're not on your own!

Kay

Thanks Kay

It's nice to know i'm not on my own, could you please pm me the number for phil jackson and i will contact him. I can't pm you as i have not been a member long enough.

No probs, I've PM'ed you

What colour is she if you don't mind me asking? I know black dogs are more prone to cocker rage syndrome http://members.lycos.co.uk/ragesyndromeinfo/

In a nutshell and i think Lottie will agree(although maybe she won't) is the dog thinks it's the boss and it's protecting you.
How you stop it is a different issue,reward training or other methods.

*peaches* he's a golden?

Willman

It does seem as if he is protecting me it has always happened when i'm around not my husband.

I am at the point i will try anything as it's upsetting to see him so angry, his hackles are up and he's showing teeth and growling then snapping. I have tried a pet corrector spray to try and resolve the problem, but that doesn't seem to be helping.

As one of the previous posts suggested i am going to call phil jackson over the weekend and discuss it with him and see if he can help me.

I have a dislike to sprays and whistles in most case - especially if simpy sold by a pet store. My parents tried everything like this on one of their sheltie's , they had no impact at all. Pet sprays merely distract the concentration of the dog - the skill of a behaviourist is to stop it escalating.
(To put it politely the only way it improved was when it was distracted with a choke chain. )
Clicker training could be a positive way of reinforcing good behaviour.

My dog started to bark and growl at people coming into the house even if he knew them. We found that if we told them to just ignored him come in and let him come to them when hed calmed down he was fine and wanted all there attention! We think he was just trying to protect us and our home. Although he never nipped anyone i think he would have done if they would have tried to stroke him.
As for postmen, they are definatly someone dogs dont like! I dont know any dog that doesnt bark, growl and look like they would want to attack them!

My dog doesn't growl and look like she wants to attack our post lady- she loves her and barks to go and get a fuss!

I really wish Rocky was like that! I bet the poor bloke has a heart attack everytime he comes to the door with a crazy little dog jumping up at the letter box!!

The reason why they bark at the postman (or in the OP case, anyone coming into the office) is because the postman comes up to the door, the dog barks, the postman goes away, and the dog thinks great, that worked, I'll do that again next time.

What colour is she if you don't mind me asking? I know black dogs are more prone to cocker rage syndrome http://members.lycos.co.uk/ragesyndromeinfo/

I had ablack cocker years ago and he was beautiful and lovely natured, but at the time I had him I was told it was the Golden Ones who had this rage syndrome, and I knew at least three Golden cockers who were particularly nasty but all the black ones I've known have ben really nice

how do you behave when your dog growls or snaps at someone?

'Aggression' is often misdiagnosed and in reality it's 'reactivity' that most dogs display.

Either way, most aggression and pretty much all reactivity results from the dog feeling insecure and the key is to make your dog feel more confident whilst also marking and reinforcing the behaviour you like.

I have a very reactive dog and I'm currently reading and studying 'Control Unleashed' - a very good book that I'd highly recommend.

Reactive dogs are often thought to be aggressive because their body orientation is toward the stimulus they're reacting to. In reality the chances of these dogs attacking are very, very low but reactivity can turn into aggression so best dealt with.

I would strongly suggest steering away from any punishment or distraction based techniques.
Distraction can be very useful but only when in conjunction with a behaviourist helping you. Too often these distraction methods can actually be very aversive (such as the awful Pet Corrector Spray by Co. of Animals) - if you treat aggression or reactivity with punishment or aversives you risk associating the correction with the stimulus, not with the behaviour.

In addition to this, it's worth considering why is my dog behaving in this way? Whilst your reasons for sorting the behaviour out are understandable and very common, my main concern would be 'my dog cannot be happy'. If a dog is feeling insecure enough to bark and snap - note that a snap is one step away from a bite but it is not a bite. Often people say 'he was only an inch from my face, if I hadn't moved...' if you hadn't moved, nothing, the dog still would not have bitten you. They are fast enough to bite if they want to and miss if they do not intend to get you. - as I was saying if a dog is feeling insecure enough to bark and snap, they cannot be happy.

So punishing the behaviour will only help to suppress the behaviour you don't like, it won't make your dog feel any better and it could easily resurface at any time. In order to deal with it properly you have to condition the dog to have a different emotional response to the stimulus that's setting it off. Once the dog is happy with it, the behaviour will disappear.

Please let me know how you get on with Phil Jackson, I'd be interested to hear his comments.

Thanks everyone for the advice, i will let you know lotti how it goes when i speak to phil, your advice is much appreciated and had made me think about how i deal with him when it happens.

It has definately made me think again about the correction spray, that has well and truly been put aside never to be used again.

Thanks Millie and no problem :)

I once spoke to a Co. of Animals rep (who for the most part are very good and have some great motivational dog training products!) who asked me if I'd ever tried the PCS - I said 'yes, I have. It scared the sh*t out of my dog' He said 'great isn't it' :shock:

I will never feel the need to use a PCS again - if I ever come across a dog so bad it needs that (and I seriously doubt I'd come across one!) then I'll refer to a behaviourist who knows what they're doing with serious behaviour problems.

The rep seemed ecstatic that dogs are so frightened by them and said 'after a while, you don't even need to press it, they just see the can and run for cover'

I don't actually know how I remained calm :(

Lotti, i'm sorry to say your right, we thought the spray was doing the job intended, not thinking it could be doing him harm, it did infact scare him enough that any aerosol can he saw didn't have to be sprayed it just had to be shown to him to have effect.

Your explanation has certainly made me nerer want to see it again let alone use it.

I only hope Phil can help reverse what has been done.

Thanks

At only 10 months whilst it will have affected him, you'll be able to get over it. Really and honestly.

I tried some things I really regret with Takara ... I was so worried about getting it right that I got it wrong and even made her worse!

I thought she'd never trust me again and even briefly considered returning her to her breeder so she could find a new home and start over with someone she had no previous connection to. (Nobody knew that until now!)

But after much confidence building, trust work and learning a lot from eachother, she's learned to trust me again and is improving all the time.

So please don't worry - I'm sure Phil will be able to help and just remember to take time to enjoy your dog :D

I had ablack cocker years ago and he was beautiful and lovely natured, but at the time I had him I was told it was the Golden Ones who had this rage syndrome, and I knew at least three Golden cockers who were particularly nasty but all the black ones I've known have ben really nice

Our neighbours bought a black cocker puppy and from being tiny he was aggressive. One day when I was walking my dogs with my son who was only small at the time, this dog was walking towards us and went ballistic at my son, I commented to my OH that this wasnt normal puppy behaviour and usually kids and puppies got on so well, even so it really didnt like him. Not long after the dog went for one of their sons friends and ended up going back to the breeder.

Sue

The rep seemed ecstatic that dogs are so frightened by them and said 'after a while, you don't even need to press it, they just see the can and run for cover'

We tried this for about a week with D, it did not bother him in the slightest, but it stopped other dogs coming right up to him, as they heard it were scared and would run away.

Decided it was not the best thing to do though as although some owners can't keep their dog away from us he has a muzzle so can't hurt them and other owners would give me a strange look, though I did get thanked by a few who said it might stop thier dogs going up to strange dogs on lead when told not to :lol:

Adversives don't seem to be the way to go with our dog, we were apparently shown how to use them properly and timed correctly but I personally think they made things worse. I'm much happier with the techniques we have been shown by a new trainer and are using them at the moment though not 'instant' I can see a small improvement so hopefully in 4 /5 months we might get there!

Jarvis ever heard of this? it sounds like Evie needs reminding of her role and having had terrors myself in the past i know how quickly things can change and how difficult it can be to manage.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

I have a black cocker , and he has been tricky at times, but this was fear aggression. Cocker rage is rarely seen these days, these dogs not being used for breeding. The huge difference in 'rage ' was that it was totally unprovoked , sudden, manic aggression.
My fears, and how i understood my dogs behaviour was helped by the Cockersonline website. There is masses of advice on everything and it is a friendly, intelligent forum ( and very keen on photos). I beg you to follow old threads in it . Don't use corrective methods with a nervous puppy, positive training really does work.
Like the others say, back to classes or one to one for a session or two.
Cockersonline have local meets, and we are planning one at Rother Valley in early February, usually a dozen off-lead dogs having a wonderful wet time. They all stick together. I'm sure your pup would enjoy it (and you). PLease browse the website, and register so that you can read the members only bits, which are great.

Jarvis ever heard of this? it sounds like Evie needs reminding of her role and having had terrors myself in the past i know how quickly things can change and how difficult it can be to manage.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Been doing all that for months. They are pretty much the same as bark busters methods /any trainer wil say. He is a perfect dog until other dogs come into the picture- he always obeys leave and heel commands for everything else cats/ squirrels/ people - just not dogs.

He waits at doorways waiting to go through after us, no problems with sitting waiting for food, he does leave / take it commands with food, even half way through eating. Walks at the side or behind us. Is only stroked when we want. Ignored when ever he does something we don't want. His fave toys are only out when we get them out and we choose when to put them away, never been allowed on furniture/ upstairs even though he has opportunity to do so, he knows he is not allowed. he's a perfect house / person dog.

We got him 'second hand' through RSPCA and do not know his past so I'm not sure what set the dog thing off. If we catch him before he gets into rage mode we are mainly ok, (if a dog gets right up it's too much for him to cope with) but he's very very quick to change and dogs run up from nowhere so it's sometimes hard to catch him. We will get there, I'm pretty determined as he is so great with everything else.

Jarvis ever heard of this? it sounds like Evie needs reminding of her role and having had terrors myself in the past i know how quickly things can change and how difficult it can be to manage.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm



Thanks for that Adz. It makes interesting reading. I already do a lot of what this suggests. She always sits for her tea, and waits before the door. But I have been fussing her when she asks for it, so I'll stop that. The thing is she was such a blank canvass when we got her, she showed very little emotion over anything, and was very timid, so her asking me for a fuss I saw this as being a good thing. She's by no means out of control or anything, but I just want to nip the barking at strangers thing in the bud before it does get out of control.

I think I worry quite a lot too. But I love her so much I just want her to be the happiest dog in the world. It upsets me to think she's upset about something. I'm trying my best with her and I'm determined we'll get there.

I've got someone in on work experience to day at the office. And while we had initial barking, despite me distracting her with treats, she soon calmed down. Luckily the lad wasn't at all bothered. And she even went over to him after about 20 mins for a fuss. She is now calmly asleep in her bed. Bless her. I guess it's just perseverance and reassurance all the time.

What colour is she if you don't mind me asking? I know black dogs are more prone to cocker rage syndrome http://members.lycos.co.uk/ragesyndromeinfo/

Its any solid colour in Cockers and Reds are the most common for Cocker Rage.