After several of us have been completely shocked with the apathy and uncaring attitude of so many people on the G8 threads, my mind came to the question, 'why don't people care about the state of the world?'.

I always thought it was human nature to care about your fellow human beings. And there are hundreds of examples of political injustices carried out by the people we elect to power. So why are people happy to just get on with their 9-5 jobs and pretend that it isn't happening? I really really don't understand!

Every single day I feel sick to the stomach (honestly) when I think about how many people have sacrificed their lives for the life I am living right now. Your computer, made from oil gained through wars, that cause poverty. Your food, grown by people that get paid a pittance and are conned into contracts that leave them with no way out. Your clothes, made by children no older than your own, in sweat shops, also paid a pittance and having to work to get that 10p a day because their parents would starve otherwise. Your religious leaders, telling people in the third world that AIDs is punishment from God, and contraception will mean they go to hell.

Except....most people know this.

And still have a go at the 'damned leftie liberal hippy protestors' for trying to do something about it. And having the audacity to hold up their cars for half an hour. Which, by the way, are giving them asthma and causing acid rain all over the world.

So have I got some kind of emotion not present in everyone else? Why do I see so many people that don't care? How on earth can you not care?

28 views and not one reply. Are you feeling the guilt, Sheffield Forum?

I think more people do care now then a long time ago. For the first time in years leaders of rich countries are taking the issue of poverty in the third world seriously, only a few years ago this wasn't a negotiable subject in the eyes of many leaders. And look at all the protests over the war and the amount of community festivals springing up as a result of the public coming together over issues that they felt strongly about. Peace in the park exists becuase of the Iraq protest, and there are a lot more charity nights held in pubs and church halls then there used to be.

I think the war and the tsunami opened up a lot of people's eyes, including the leaders of richer countries. I actually feel quite positive that the world may be changing for the better. Oh, and if you care then get yourself down to the peace gardens at 6pm on Wednesday!

Thanks Nicola....the official stance is that the picket will be outside the Lyceum - Peace Gardens will most likely by closed off. So outside the Lyceum at 6pm. Don't bring loudspeakers as the police will not let you in.

It's a case of "we're alright, Jack". The way the protests disrupt day to day life won't win much support either. The poverty in Africa has a lot more to do with tinpot dictators than western leaders. Also, people give a lot of money to charity. Perhaps it's that we do care, but we don't like protests either?

I think a lot of is has to do with age. When I way growing up I was very socially conscious and idealistic. I even have a social policy and politics degree.

I have found (and a lot of my friends are the same) that as you get older you realise that:

a. Everyone is not good and if they go wrong society is not necessarily to blame.

b. Some people are pure plantum however you look at it.

c. Money is king. You cannot hope to change the world and if you have a minor impact on something ti takes all your time and energy.

d. A lot of the ardent campaigners for many causes know absolutely nothing about what they are campaigning for. They tend to be the loudest ones.

e. The people running said campaigns are more than often involved for reasons of self interest. Same with Union reps. Its all about being the big fish and furthering yourself and nothing to do with helping others.

f. I may be altruistic but there is only so much you can do to help others. If they aren't prepared to help themselves then its pointless.

g. The fat tthat you had a bad upringing does not mean that you can automatically use this as an excuse for the rest of your life.

h. The only way to get people interested in helping others is to either:

1: produce wristbands and then make them trendy. Therefore, all the chavs and trendies will buy them (generally knocked off) and walk around looking cool. They may know where their pound is going but probably not. They strut round feeling cool and good about themselves for giving 1/2 quid whilst others give a lot more and don't need to shove it in other people's faces.

2. Throw a pop concert with lots of your old, uncool friends who give more of a damn about looking good and selling a few albums off of the back of it than the cause. Then make it trendy and cool to support/watch it.



sorry about the rant but basically I had a female frined who felt like you. She used to get so angry about every issue and really upset herself. It took me a while to talk to her and convince her that whilst being anti Nestle, Nike etc was all well and good its no use picking on a few companies when most other large multinationals do exactly the same. Where do you stop. If you cut out every company that directly or inderectly exploited, lied and profited from other's loss you would find that you would end up boycotting every company.

Unfotunately in capitalist society money talks. People on't care who is exploited as long as they save money buying things cheaper. Most seem more concerned about petrol going up by a few pence than the destruction of the Earth's natural resources.

We live in a selfish society.

Not only is it selfish it is stupid.

The level of stupidity around is scary. This is all encouraged and
promoted by tv, Hollywood, bad music, Tabloid press etc etc.

Go and read the Sun or the Star. How they can call themselves "News" papers I don't know. Its like reading Heat or Now in paper form. It is pathetic.

The thing that is scary is that very few people seem to know anything about this country's history. Even something as recent as the second world war where they will have relatives who died. They don't seem to care about anything else but themselves.

All the above are generalisations and there are many many people who don't fit into the above. However, popular culture which seems to be driven by the media is imo the reason why people care less about others and more about themselves.

Originally posted by t020
It's a case of "we're alright, Jack". The way the protests disrupt day to day life won't win much support either. The poverty in Africa has a lot more to do with tinpot dictators than western leaders. Also, people give a lot of money to charity. Perhaps it's that we do care, but we don't like protests either?

But as you said yourself, giving money to charity is often inneffective, and any change it does have is purely aesthetic.

The people with the power to change it need a kick up their backsides. And why aren't more people prepared to do so?

Originally posted by noseyrosie
The people with the power to change it need a kick up their backsides.

How can they change it? I can think of one way - regime change, and we all know what the do-gooders would think about that.

Rosie,

I think we all do care. My opinion is that i dont know enough about what goes off in the world and you often hear such differing views into what goes off.

You often hear of suffering countries who are poor but have dictatators as leaders. What action can we take?

I do think our leaders have a very difficult job. You are right in that people are suffering but it's natural that we all suffer the 'out of sight, out of mind' syndrome, although some more than others.

I think the world is such a bad place because of people. There's many bad people out there as you know and unfortunatly many of these have influence in the world.

We can help a country, cancel it's debt, relieve famine but will it last? I'm not convinced. People including myself dont give it enough thought as we do think of ourselves and our own friends and families. When bad things happen to us or our families it's obvious our thoughts are going to focus on this.

Please remember, my comments are all off the cuff as that is how most of us generally reply.

The problem is that nobody knows why their cars are being held up, which makes the whole thing a bit silly. For all you know the people being help up might agree with everything that the loonies on the bikes are in favour of, so holding them up is pointless. The only saving grace is that they might get on the telly and so publicise whatever it is this is about in which case the world will see a few loonies on bikes making an incoherent and pointless protest and will then not take it seriously.

The second main problem is that the word "protest" keeps being used. I was in favour of the war in Iraq but it is clear to me that the majority of people in the UK were against it and a number of "protests" were held. This is a good thing. To protest means "to show a strong objection". What exactly is the strong objection to the G8 meeting and cutting debt to poor countries? What is the strong objection to the ministers meeting in Sheffield to talk about internal security? When the protests were against the war in Iraq then it was clear. These so called protests are meaningless because I have no idea what is being strongly objected to. Rather than a few loonies holding up the traffic and alienating people they should get organised and put forward reasonable plans that can be taken seriously.

Bigger things to worry about sweetheart, such as my kids, my job, my house etc.

Once you have all these yourself your attitude to whats really important may change a bit.

Originally posted by KenH
The problem is that nobody knows why their cars are being held up, which makes the whole thing a bit silly. For all you know the people being help up might agree with everything that the loonies on the bikes are in favour of, so holding them up is pointless. The only saving grace is that they might get on the telly and so publicise whatever it is this is about in which case the world will see a few loonies on bikes making an incoherent and pointless protest and will then not take it seriously.

The second main problem is that the word "protest" keeps being used. I was in favour of the war in Iraq but it is clear to me that the majority of people in the UK were against it and a number of "protests" were held. This is a good thing. To protest means "to show a strong objection". What exactly is the strong objection to the G8 meeting and cutting debt to poor countries? What is the strong objection to the ministers meeting in Sheffield to talk about internal security? When the protests were against the war in Iraq then it was clear. These so called protests are meaningless because I have no idea what is being strongly objected to. Rather than a few loonies holding up the traffic and alienating people they should get organised and put forward reasonable plans that can be taken seriously.

They aren't meeting to discuss the dropping of debt. The ministers that are meeting in Sheffield will be discussing the increase of international security to prevent 'terrorism' - e.g. ID cards, the lessening of human rights to trial, etc.

Please don't call me a loonie. Have I given off the impression of being mentally unstable? Jokes aside....have I?!

Reasonable plans are put forward, but you can bet your bottom dollar none of you would be bothered enough to make the necessary moves to put them into action.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
Bigger things to worry about sweetheart, such as my kids, my job, my house etc.

Once you have all these yourself your attitude to whats really important may change a bit.

This is the kind of attitude I am talking about.

If you've got even a sliver of common sense, rooby, do you really, REALLY think that your job or house is more important than the billions of people living in poverty?

Becuase people have realised that what they do dosen't really have an effect. It's like Robbie said, you realise that unless you run a country, are Bob Geldof or have lots of money YOU can't make a difference. And also t020 has a point-people doesn't like protesters as they are seen as disruptive, but I think that people do have a right to express their anger over important factors. However, protests don't force the people in charge to change their minds or take action, they just attract publicity (be it good or bad). Look at the Iraq protests- millions took to the streets, but it didn't stop Blair and he still got re-elected. This is mainly because people realised that as 'normal' people without money/status to use as a platform, they can't really do anything.

But what's changing is that theres a general feeling that something has to be done about poverty, it's not just the typical hippie protesters who campaign for this anymore, the leaders have realised that they need to do something about it. This may be for selfish reasons, such as Blair wanting to make amends for the Iraq war or wanting to leave a legacy, but at least it's happening.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
This is the kind of attitude I am talking about.

If you've got even a sliver of common sense, rooby, do you really, REALLY think that your job or house is more important than the billions of people living in poverty?

In a word - yes.

Its like the other day, I was in the garden with the radio on. there was a report about some bloke getting killed. At first its shock horror. By the end of the day after listening to the news every hour I was of the opinion "so what? I didnt know him"

Selfish? probably. Does it bother me? No.

As long as me and mine are ok then the world is ok.

I agree with quite a few in that, things are slightly getting better although i dont think it will make such a difference.

i also understand rooby_roo which is something similar to what i put before. When we get robbed, abused and even people killed/die close to us, we are naturally going to think of this and not of the rest of the world.

To most, our own child is more impoartant than anything in this world. It may seem unfair but it's a natural feeling.

I will add that i dont think anyone sees you as a loonie, very much the opposite

Originally posted by rooby_roo
In a word - yes.

Its like the other day, I was in the garden with the radio on. there was a report about some bloke getting killed. At first its shock horror. By the end of the day after listening to the news every hour I was of the opinion "so what? I didnt know him"

Selfish? probably. Does it bother me? No.

As long as me and mine are ok then the world is ok.

and for better or worse this is the view taken by most of the general public. Whilst its not a view I hold myself but if you spend all your waking hours minding kids, working, paying bills etc etc its very hard to spend the time and effort focussing on bigger things.

Err, sorry but I couldn't be bothered to use your version, which was 'damned leftie liberal hippy protestors' so I shortened it to "loonie". Having a protest where nobody knows what it is about and where the only thing we do know is that a few tree huggers are holding up traffic is certainly "loonie" at best. This is because it means any opposition can be ignored because it is a few nutters and rent a mob.

You still haven't explianed what you "strongly object" to, only what the meeting is about. You say that they are meeting to "discuss" the increase in international security. If that means there is some specific agenda item that you think we should all know about , and which is so terrible that there must be a mass protest, then tell me what it is then I might join. I don't much like the idea of an ID card (well the £86 part) and I might well protest if there is such a proposal, oh hang on, that was in the Labour manifesto and they got elected. Damn, I voted for them, should have read that bit.

If they are meeting to discuss security, then I certainly can't strongly object to such a meeting as without this kind of meeting there would be no internatonal cooperation and the world would be more dangerous. Of course, once their discussions become proposals then I might well object to what they propose. I'll let you into a secret, if you want to change things at the stage where they are only discussing things you need to get elected. To get elecetde you need to be taken seriously and a few loonies rinding bikes round town holding up cars doesn't do that.

And also we have turned into a fat lazy society. We are so used to a high standard of living and being comfortable that its easy to lose sight of issues that don't effect us.

I work for the Home Office on a **** wage because I'd rather work for the good of the country than for some faceless capitaist.

But that's my choice. I don't have a mortgage or a family to support so its easier for me to do this.

People are growing up today believing that they have failed if they don't own a home, drive a nice car, wear such and such. This is why the country is ridled with debt. We live in a consumer society with a dubious work ethic and cdedit society. People seem to think its their right to own whatever someone else does. They wont save up and wait for something they take credit and get it now.

The Thatcher years have turned this country into a self-centred, materialistic nation. You don't see it as much here but live in London and the horrid truth is everywhere.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
In a word - yes.

Its like the other day, I was in the garden with the radio on. there was a report about some bloke getting killed. At first its shock horror. By the end of the day after listening to the news every hour I was of the opinion "so what? I didnt know him"

Selfish? probably. Does it bother me? No.

As long as me and mine are ok then the world is ok.

It's a good thing I'm not a religious person because I'd probably be questioning your possession of a soul right now.

You can only continue your lifestyle because two thirds of the world's population are living in poverty. They support your lifestyle. Our mere existence requires us to s**t all over several billion people in the third world. 'You and yours' only have central heating because our governments fight countries in the middle East for the fossil fuels, and so causing thousands of deaths. All for 'you and yours' to be ok.

And as for not being affected by a news report on the death of someone you don't know, fair enough, I don't expect you to start crying. But we are partially responsible for the deaths of billions ourselved because we don't take action to pressurise our government or change our lifestyles.

Originally posted by KenH
To get elecetde you need to be taken seriously and a few loonies rinding bikes round town holding up cars doesn't do that.

There weren't any bikes on the protest? I don't understand where this is coming from? I don't even own a bike...

Originally posted by noseyrosie
After several of us have been completely shocked with the apathy and uncaring attitude of so many people on the G8 threads, my mind came to the question, 'why don't people care about the state of the world?'.

I always thought it was human nature to care about your fellow human beings. [/B]

We do care Rosie.

We just have higher prioities, as others have mentioned here.

We respect your opinions, so please respect ours.

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by noseyrosie

You can only continue your lifestyle because two thirds of the world's population are living in poverty. They support your lifestyle. Our mere existence requires us to s**t all over several billion people in the third world. 'You and yours' only have central heating because our governments fight countries in the middle East for the fossil fuels, and so causing thousands of deaths. All for 'you and yours' to be ok.

.

Rosie, i truly belive that much of the population is living in poverty but i'm not convinced by some of your comments such as about the war as i dont think it's factual.

Also what would you like us to do? If you were made leader for a day, what would you do? (That's a honest question, please don't think i'm being funny)

Originally posted by liencam
We do care Rosie.

We just have higher prioities, as others have mentioned here.

We respect your opinions, so please respect ours.

:thumbsup:

I have other things in my life too! My step-dad is in hospital for one, and I'm currently doing my A-levels, which I need to do well in to get to university. This is my top priority in many ways, but my mind is constantly on the world's problems too, because I can't see how it could not be! I just can't see how one can ignore the world at large, in spite of other more immediate things.

I dont care about anything else in the world. If africa suddenly sank to the bottom the the ocean I wouldnt even notice.

As long as no-one bothers me I dont give a crap. And if they do bother me they will get whats coming to them
________
Uggs (http://uggstoreshop.com/)

[i]We just have higher prioities

I think the intended wording was "other priorities"

How can any priority be higher than those that noseyrosie has outlined? The future of the world and everything in it? Life is getting closer and closer to some of the visions in the SF stories I used to read as a teenager. Ideas that used to fill me with dread are looming up as credible realities *shiver*

I used to be just like you, noseyosie - railing against the unfairness of life, fighting sexism, going on CND marches, afraid that some maniac yank or russian president was going to press the button and send us all into oblivion ... or worse, into some radioactive nightmare world

As you get older you look around and realise that most people only care about getting on for themselves and their familes and don't mind whose face they step on to get there ... and that they think you're the idiot for being, say for example, a school governor or a political activist "you mean you don't get paid for doing that? no way I'd do it for nothing" ...

Grow another skin noseyrosie, try to be selfish like everyone else ... you can drive yourself mad otherwise, thinking about things ... but, having given you that bit of advice - I know who I'd rather have as a friend and ally :)

Originally posted by Mainframe
I dont care about anything else in the world. If africa suddenly sank to the bottom the the ocean I wouldnt even notice.

As long as no-one bothers me I dont give a crap. And if they do bother me they will get whats coming to them

Bit over the top! :loopy:

Originally posted by noseyrosie
After several of us have been completely shocked with the apathy and uncaring attitude of so many people on the G8 threads, my mind came to the question, 'why don't people care about the state of the world?'.

I always thought it was human nature to care about your fellow human beings. And there are hundreds of examples of political injustices carried out by the people we elect to power. So why are people happy to just get on with their 9-5 jobs and pretend that it isn't happening? I really really don't understand!

Every single day I feel sick to the stomach (honestly) when I think about how many people have sacrificed their lives for the life I am living right now. Your computer, made from oil gained through wars, that cause poverty. Your food, grown by people that get paid a pittance and are conned into contracts that leave them with no way out. Your clothes, made by children no older than your own, in sweat shops, also paid a pittance and having to work to get that 10p a day because their parents would starve otherwise. Your religious leaders, telling people in the third world that AIDs is punishment from God, and contraception will mean they go to hell.

Except....most people know this.

And still have a go at the 'damned leftie liberal hippy protestors' for trying to do something about it. And having the audacity to hold up their cars for half an hour. Which, by the way, are giving them asthma and causing acid rain all over the world.

So have I got some kind of emotion not present in everyone else? Why do I see so many people that don't care? How on earth can you not care?

I don't think the majority don't care. I think most of us care quite a lot and that is the reason that something is eventually being done. When it appears that people don't care it is more down to ignorance than hard heartedness I'm sure.

Change doesn't happen overnight most of the time and it has to evolve slowly to make a lasting difference. It's tragic, I know. Short of us all packing up and going to Africa to do some VSO (which wouldn't help us to help them long term) then our only option is peaceful demonstration to gain publicity. A small contribution from our nation. We have to use the tools we have in our culture and social climate to our best advantage. A lot of people hate Bob Geldof but he uses his tools well!

I think it is unfair to assume that people in cars etc. with a 9-5 job don't care as for all we know they may be going to work everyday trying to make that difference. If we all stopped working we wouldn't be able to clear the debt.

Change is coming ..........just slowly

Originally posted by rubydazzler
I think the intended wording was "other priorities"

How can any priority be higher than those that noseyrosie has outlined? The future of the world and everything in it? Life is getting closer and closer to some of the visions in the SF stories I used to read as a teenager. Ideas that used to fill me with dread are looming up as credible realities *shiver*

I used to be just like you, noseyosie - railing against the unfairness of life, fighting sexism, going on CND marches, afraid that some maniac yank or russian president was going to press the button and send us all into oblivion ... or worse, into some radioactive nightmare world

As you get older you look around and realise that most people only care about getting on for themselves and their familes and don't mind whose face they step on to get there ... and that they think you're the idiot for being, say for example, a school governor or a political activist "you mean you don't get paid for doing that? no way I'd do it for nothing" ...

Grow another skin noseyrosie, try to be selfish like everyone else ... you can drive yourself mad otherwise, thinking about things ... but, having given you that bit of advice - I know who I'd rather have as a friend and ally :)

be honest, you were just in it for the free love ;) :D :D

Originally posted by rubydazzler
I think the intended wording was "other priorities"

How can any priority be higher than those that noseyrosie has outlined? The future of the world and everything in it? Life is getting closer and closer to some of the visions in the SF stories I used to read as a teenager. Ideas that used to fill me with dread are looming up as credible realities *shiver*

I used to be just like you, noseyosie - railing against the unfairness of life, fighting sexism, going on CND marches, afraid that some maniac yank or russian president was going to press the button and send us all into oblivion ... or worse, into some radioactive nightmare world

As you get older you look around and realise that most people only care about getting on for themselves and their familes and don't mind whose face they step on to get there ... and that they think you're the idiot for being, say for example, a school governor or a political activist "you mean you don't get paid for doing that? no way I'd do it for nothing" ...

Grow another skin noseyrosie, try to be selfish like everyone else ... you can drive yourself mad otherwise, thinking about things ... but, having given you that bit of advice - I know who I'd rather have as a friend and ally :)

Surely it shouldn't be the case that I should try and be a bit more selfish to fit in with everyone else, but that we should try and make everyone else a bit less so?

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Surely it shouldn't be the case that I should try and be a bit more selfish to fit in with everyone else, but that we should try and make everyone else a bit less so?

its a nice thought.......

There's a lot of sense in what ruby's saying, by all means grow a thicker skin but there really is no need to become as selfish as everyone else. Just do what you can in whatever way you see fit. Some people give to charity, some try and change the world in big ways, others in small ways. My fear is that if everyone who is doing something decides not to bother then the world will become a much nastier place.

Yes, I'm a do-gooder but the alternative is to be either a do-badder or do-nothinger. Neither of which appeals to me.

Originally posted by robbie
its a nice thought.......
It's sad that so many people seem to lose their convictions when they become jaded by the realities of life isn't it? If this is what happens when you get a bit older I think I might go and live in a little kibbutz somewhere and grow old.

Originally posted by robbie
its a nice thought.......

And better put into practice. That is the hard part getting your message across in a way people can understand and without preaching. That is what makes the difference, like I said before, using your tools well.

Originally posted by max
There's a lot of sense in what ruby's saying, by all means grow a thicker skin but there really is no need to become as selfish as everyone else. Just do what you can in whatever way you see fit. Some people give to charity, some try and change the world in big ways, others in small ways. My fear is that if everyone who is doing something decides not to bother then the world will become a much nastier place.

Yes, I'm a do-gooder but the alternative is to be either a do-badder or do-nothinger. Neither of which appeals to me.

I second that

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Surely it shouldn't be the case that I should try and be a bit more selfish to fit in with everyone else, but that we should try and make everyone else a bit less so?

you can't "make" other people do anything ... (unfortunately ;) ) you don't have to take any notice of anything I say either ... after, what do i know

robbie - I hate to disillusion you, but love is never free ... there's always some sort of price tag attached ...:P

Look at Super Size Me. That documentary has done more damage to McDonalds than years and years of campaigning and law suits.

Its difficult to alter people's perceptions unless you have access to the media or a lot of money. You don't generally earn a lot of money or survive in the media/journalism by being nice.

Originally posted by max
There's a lot of sense in what ruby's saying, by all means grow a thicker skin but there really is no need to become as selfish as everyone else. Just do what you can in whatever way you see fit. Some people give to charity, some try and change the world in big ways, others in small ways. My fear is that if everyone who is doing something decides not to bother then the world will become a much nastier place.

Yes, I'm a do-gooder but the alternative is to be either a do-badder or do-nothinger. Neither of which appeals to me.

Max talk a lot of sense there. I dont think most people are being selfish but are just concentrating on things closer to home. The 'what can i actually do though' also comes into mind

Originally posted by rubydazzler
you can't "make" other people do anything ... (unfortunately ;) ) you don't have to take any notice of anything I say either ... after, what do i know

robbie - I hate to disillusion you, but love is never free ... there's always some sort of price tag attached ...:P

its that when they steal your wallet? :rolleyes: :D

Originally posted by robbie
and for better or worse this is the view taken by most of the general public. Whilst its not a view I hold myself but if you spend all your waking hours minding kids, working, paying bills etc etc its very hard to spend the time and effort focussing on bigger things.

I would have agreed with you fully there had you replaced "bigger things" with "other things".

Originally posted by youwhatref
Max talk a lot of sense there. I dont think most people are being selfish but are just concentrating on things closer to home. The 'what can i actually do though' also comes into mind

I think we are being slefish. I'll admit it. The problem for me is "what can I really do"? and in the case of Africa "is it really worth it?

I'd freely give money to charities in Africa and campaign on their behalf if:

a. I know that £50 would be spent on the people who need it.

b. You can guarantee by helping a country they will use the money properly. Africa have a history of wasting and abusing aid with corrupt regimes and tin-pot dictatorships. Only last week there was a bbc investigation into Malawi spending its aid money on tear gas and flogging it to Zimbabwe so they can "control" their citizens. I find it difficult to see billions of aid going to countries and debts being wiped when all that may well happen is the same thing repeating itself.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
I would have agreed with you fully there had you replaced "bigger things" with "other things".

by bigger I meant size-wise (effecting more people) and not importance wise

I do care but.............

I am not demonstrating
I don't donate to charity (financially)
I own a computer, car, home, buy food etc.


Now what's written above seems contradictory and to most will look like I don't give a damn.

If you scratch the surface though and don't generalise you would see that I work daily upon social reform (slow but beneficial) at a grass roots level. I have children who need their mother and are too young to be taken to a demonstration. I don't donate financially to charity as it goes to the fat cats. My computer, car etc. is also used for my work.

My choices are to some extent selfish as they are detremental to my children. They don't see me as much as they could if I stayed at home everyday. This is something I have to balance and justify daily to myself. I do this by having faith that one day they will understand and see the bigger picture.
This isn't possible for a lot of people. Most parents are very commited to thier children and do an excellent job. My advice would be that for those without children or trappings to do more than just demonstrate. Go and do VSO while you can, go over to Africa and pitch in where you can, be as radical as needs be. Don't just demonstrate and then nothing more. Put your mark on the world and think big. Who knows you could be the next Sir BOB ? ;) You will never know unless you try.

Originally posted by robbie
its that when they steal your wallet? :rolleyes: :D

rofl, robbie - always the joker!

why have people stopped caring??
Not everyone has, its just those who wish to drag the rest of us down to their level, life is much tougher than it was, i loved my childhood, im worried sick about my kids childhood, you have only got to look at the news to see how much has changed for the worse, what type of kids try to kill other kids??

Originally posted by bonny
I do care but.............

I am not demonstrating
I don't donate to charity (financially)
I own a computer, car, home, buy food etc.


Now what's written above seems contradictory and to most will look like I don't give a damn.



Not really, Bonny, because that's my outlook and attitude as well.

I want to make real, long term changes in the world. I'm of the generation that was told 'wearing badges is not enough' and have to say that I'd rather have a million people deciding to spend their time contributing time and energy and know-how to some charitable project than provide the 'foot soldiers' for what is rapidly becoming an ego trip for the entertainment industry.

And as I'm collaborating with you in a small way on one of your projects, I know you're a caring person who DOES give a damn!!

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Not really, Bonny, because that's my outlook and attitude as well.

I want to make real, long term changes in the world. I'm of the generation that was told 'wearing badges is not enough' and have to say that I'd rather have a million people deciding to spend their time contributing time and energy and know-how to some charitable project than provide the 'foot soldiers' for what is rapidly becoming an ego trip for the entertainment industry.

And as I'm collaborating with you in a small way, I know you're a caring person who DOES give a damn!!

Joe

Ahhh, thanks Joe ( bung you a £20 for that later!!) I also can vouch for your integrity Joe in a big way!

Originally posted by noseyrosie
This is the kind of attitude I am talking about.

If you've got even a sliver of common sense, rooby, do you really, REALLY think that your job or house is more important than the billions of people living in poverty?

When you have a mortgage and a family to support, do you *really* think your priority will be people starving in Africa? Or will it be making sure you do well in your career in order to pay the mortgage and support your own family?

Originally posted by t020
When you have a mortgage and a family to support, do you *really* think your priority will be people starving in Africa? Or will it be making sure you do well in your career in order to pay the mortgage and support your own family?

I think Africa will have to be at the lower end of the priortity list; besides, these continual adverts on the tele show very little improvement, and little is shown from the millions of pounds worth of money that we have poured into the poorest parts of the continent.

:)

Have to agree with t020 here.

If I'm homeless and jobless and in debt, how am I supposed to help the rest of the world?

Been there and tried that 10 years ago. You can do sod all to help anyone if you have debt collectors breathing down your neck.

And being told what to think about poverty by a bunch of people who are multi-millionaires does tend to stick in my craw somewhat.

Joe

I can appreciate the homeless and jobless giving less to charity when their priorities are getting shelter and food on the plate. It doesn't stop you caring though.

Plus, I can't see why having a mortgage and family to support should stop anyone caring enough to do something about those less fortunate. Caring isn't something that comes out of a tap which can be turned on and off to suit.

Financial aid may go up and down dependent on availability of funds but becoming part of the do-nothingers or do-badders is not an option if you really care.

Originally posted by max
Plus, I can't see why having a mortgage and family to support should stop anyone caring enough to do something about those less fortunate. Caring isn't something that comes out of a tap which can be turned on and off to suit.

Financial aid may go up and down dependent on availability of funds but becoming part of the do-nothingers or do-badders is not an option if you really care.

E.g. Someone has young children and works full time all week is hardly going to want to give up half their weekend protesting when they could (and should, IMO) be spending quality time with their family. Of course they're not going to *stop* caring about issues they cared about before, but their priorities will surely adjust accordingly?

Originally posted by t020
E.g. Someone has young children and works full time all week is hardly going to want to give up half their weekend protesting when they could (and should, IMO) be spending quality time with their family. Of course they're not going to *stop* caring about issues they cared about before, but their priorities will surely adjust accordingly?

Look at the pictures and TV footage of protests and see how many children are there with their parents. Believe it or not but some people include their children in activities of this kind and consider it quality time. Surely this is better use of shared time than sitting mindlessly in front of the goggle box or playstation?

I consider it incredibly sad when I see children dragged along on protests of this sort and given a placard to hold proclaiming a view that they can't possibly understand anything about. What sort of life is that for a kid - especially when these things sometimes turn violent? Childhood should be childhood - there's enough time for them to be political activists when they grow up and can make their own minds up about the issues.

Originally posted by metalman
I consider it incredibly sad when I see children dragged along on protests of this sort and given a placard to hold proclaiming a view that they can't possibly understand anything about. What sort of life is that for a kid - especially when these things sometimes turn violent? Childhood should be childhood - there's enough time for them to be political activists when they grow up and can make their own minds up about the issues.

Surely the same could be said of any activity where the children are forced into participating? Religion, hunting, amateur dramatics, fishing, any sporting pastime including rambling.

Are you saying that until the child is old enough to make up their own mind the selfish parents should leave them in their room?

Originally posted by max
Look at the pictures and TV footage of protests and see how many children are there with their parents. Believe it or not but some people include their children in activities of this kind and consider it quality time. Surely this is better use of shared time than sitting mindlessly in front of the goggle box or playstation?

Which is why I deliberately stated *young children*, say, under 5s. I don't think it would be responsible to take babies and toddlers on protest marches but maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Originally posted by t020
Which is why I deliberately stated *young children*, say, under 5s. I don't think it would be responsible to take babies and toddlers on protest marches but maybe I'm just old fashioned.

I'm not being funny here, but would that apply to parents protesting against phone masts being sited outside nursery schools in Fulwood, for instance?

Originally posted by max
Are you saying that until the child is old enough to make up their own mind the selfish parents should leave them in their room?
I thought they got abandoned in front of a telly/dvd player until they got bullied at school? :confused:

Originally posted by max
I'm not being funny here, but would that apply to parents protesting against phone masts being sited outside nursery schools in Fulwood, for instance?

Yes, it would. Infact in that instance they'd be using their toddlers as political pawns for emotive effect - i.e. look at these lovely kids, how could you site a mast next to their nursery? Not something I would consider doing, personally.

Originally posted by max
Surely the same could be said of any activity where the children are forced into participating? Religion, hunting, amateur dramatics, fishing, any sporting pastime including rambling.



Personally, with the exception of religion, I'd rather have my kids doing any of those things than being dragged out on a protest. The point is that by going on a protest you are making a statement, and if you take your kids along and force them to make the same statement, I don't think that's right. Fair enough, when they're old enough to understand the issues and then they want to make the same statement, let them.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
Bigger things to worry about sweetheart, such as my kids, my job, my house etc.

Once you have all these yourself your attitude to whats really important may change a bit.

My thoughts exactly, my priorities in life are these above also.

I have been a nurse for over 20 years and sometimes I do feel that caring and compassion are things of the past.

however the small kindnesses I see, the odd action that means compassion" in the raw..ie a small gesture like a hug or a touch of a hand.mean that people do care...........being human is all part of those "small kindness"

I think that people are too busy to sometimes do and see those small things

Originally posted by crowefan
I have been a nurse for over 20 years and sometimes I do feel that caring and compassion are things of the past.

however the small kindnesses I see, the odd action that means compassion" in the raw..ie a small gesture like a hug or a touch of a hand.mean that people do care...........being human is all part of those "small kindness"

I think that people are too busy to sometimes do and see those small things

That's such a good point - that's where all kindnesses start - the small gestures of love and erspect for those around us - family, friends, strangers.

I believe that some years ago Dag Hammarskjold the first Secretary General of the UN said :

"It takes more nobility of character to make a difference in the life of one person that to work to save the masses."

If we all adopt this approach and make positive differences to teh lives of those around us, who knows where the influence of those positive differences may take us?

Joe

It's the small stuff you do that makes all the difference, and if enough of us did do the small things then the world would soon improve. Plenty of the things anyone can do help ourselves too, often saving money.

I often feel really sad when I see people who are so into their career that they forget about their friends and families. When you die, nobody is going to remember that you always got your reports in on time, but they will always remember all those small acts of kindness and the laughs you had.

As to doing things to helping society, everyone's got time to do little things. You don't have to tie yourself in knots about being ethical - as your life gets busier you realise that you have to stop worrying about everything. But you can still do stuff to help. Like making sure to turn off printers in the office at night which goes a long way to saving energy or not buying too many papers and mags which saves not only resources but lots of money and the time wasted in reading the rubbish. :)

The chavs have the "I'm alright" attitude, and that's why they don't give a stuff that they cause trouble.

It's definitely not because I don't care about the state of world. I have become depressed about being lied to by the government and media. It has got to the point where nothing you see, hear or read can be relied upon. It frightens me to think about 'how can we know whats true and whats not'. You could worry yourself sick but how will that change anything?:|

Originally posted by tulip
It's definitely not because I don't care about the state of world. I have become depressed about being lied to by the government and media. It has got to the point where nothing you see, hear or read can be relied upon. It frightens me to think about 'how can we know whats true and whats not'. You could worry yourself sick but how will that change anything?:|

you should count yourself lucky. In today's 24hrs global society it is pretty difficult to cover things up. You can get news reports from countries all over the world.

I think that one of the problem with society is that we know too much. There is no mystery left anymore.

Originally posted by robbie
you should count yourself lucky. In today's 24hrs global society it is pretty difficult to cover things up. You can get news reports from countries all over the world.

I think that one of the problem with society is that we know too much. There is no mystery left anymore.

An analyst summed it up nicely during the Second Iraq War. We now see news from the point of view of the foot soldier in the field, the aid worker in the camps and the copper on the beat. Rather than getting a news report that provides context, we get urged to panic and run around like blue-arsed flies.

We therefore get no perspective - just urgency and no analysis is possible because of that lack. Just because there is a lot of news delivered quickly doesn't make it an accurate picture of what's REALLY happening even if it's a true statement of the facts that are happening on the ground.

As Gromyko is reputed to have said when asked about the political impact of the French Revolution - 'It's too soon to tell'.

Today we mistake the plethora of information and speed with which it's delivered as some how making it more accurate and informative; on the contrary it's probably the reverse.

Joe

Originally posted by noseyrosie
It's sad that so many people seem to lose their convictions when they become jaded by the realities of life isn't it? If this is what happens when you get a bit older I think I might go and live in a little kibbutz somewhere and grow old.

Rosie,

I'm half guessing that you are in the middle of exams. in which case .... good luck.

But if you really want to see if you can make a difference or not, then running off to a kibutz is certainly not the answer!

Contact VSO and see what you can do in Africa instead.

http://www.vso.org.uk/volunteering/

Originally posted by robbie
you should count yourself lucky. In today's 24hrs global society it is pretty difficult to cover things up. You can get news reports from countries all over the world.

I think that one of the problem with society is that we know too much. There is no mystery left anymore. Well, where do I start! Since I left England I have seen loads of news reports and film footage that are contrary to English broadcasts, I've seen the English news footage of the BSE crisis being reported as current. How about gulf war syndrome - does it exist or not? I've watched documentaries on certain scientific discoveries reported as 'new' but are they? Do we really have the freedom of speach that we think we do? It's more like they can can edit stuff better these days, not that we are given to much info - in my opinion that is. I'm sure a lot of you will say I'm paranoid (I do see the irony of saying people will think of me as paranoid - before one of you points this out!)
It will take a lot for someone to change my opinion on this but please feel free to try, I don't have a closed mind.:|

Originally posted by max
Look at the pictures and TV footage of protests and see how many children are there with their parents. Believe it or not but some people include their children in activities of this kind and consider it quality time. Surely this is better use of shared time than sitting mindlessly in front of the goggle box or playstation?

I have not and will not take my children to a protest. they also do not spend their time in front of a google box or playstation.

Children shouldn't be exposed to this unless they have the capabilities of processing what is happening IMHO.

I wouldn't consider it quality time exposing them to a demonstration.

Originally posted by JoePritchard
An analyst summed it up nicely during the Second Iraq War. We now see news from the point of view of the foot soldier in the field, the aid worker in the camps and the copper on the beat. Rather than getting a news report that provides context, we get urged to panic and run around like blue-arsed flies.

We therefore get no perspective - just urgency and no analysis is possible because of that lack. Just because there is a lot of news delivered quickly doesn't make it an accurate picture of what's REALLY happening even if it's a true statement of the facts that are happening on the ground.

As Gromyko is reputed to have said when asked about the political impact of the French Revolution - 'It's too soon to tell'.

Today we mistake the plethora of information and speed with which it's delivered as some how making it more accurate and informative; on the contrary it's probably the reverse.

Joe I think you pretty much said what I said but I was too slow!

Originally posted by bonny
I have not and will not take my children to a protest. they also do not spend their time in front of a google box or playstation.

Children shouldn't be exposed to this unless they have the capabilities of processing what is happening IMHO.

I wouldn't consider it quality time exposing them to a demonstration. You're right, I don't think it's right to impose your views on suggestable children, let them form their own opinions & ideals as they grow. we don't want the next generation to be brain washed, do we?

i just get fed up with having it rammed down my throat every day,especially at meal times,we have done a hell of a lot for africa and others,its time they sorted themselves out and threw away the begging bowl and did some thing positive for them selves.
the government want to wipe out their debts but they increase our cost of living etc to pay for it so in reality they are giving nothing,its us the british people who are paying their debts for them,so we all donate to their upkeep in one form or another

dont want to seem uncaring but there is a lot that needs doing here at home but no one seems to bother so long as we look good in the eyes of the rest of the world

The harsh truth is the world we live in is the im alright jack attitude first and maybe,just maybe I will get round to helping the rest another time.
I remember when I was rosies age thinking we can change the world,of course we didint but maybe its good to see the young generation still so passionate about issues in the world.
I also think that as you get older you become more tolerant of failure and you also become more right wing.

I have in my life time taken on the cares of the world and it has made no diffference,
Africa is now in a worse state that it was then, the homeless are still homeless, children are still bullied and abused.
I too was going to , with my love and compassion, help the less forrtunate, thinking that love can conquer all.
I gave not money but time which is more precious, I had jobs that were caring of either adults or children and seeing it from my angle after all these years, the situation is still the same.
So, do we who care make any difference, Life is unfair and will probabley remain so.
hazel

I think the point is that doing something however small all adds up.

If everyone did nothing then it's obvious what would happen.

It's far better to have a few people doing something.

Originally posted by hazel
I had jobs that were caring of either adults or children and seeing it from my angle after all these years, the situation is still the same.


Whilst there may now be more people homeless, living in poverty, if you cared for individuals, then for those people you perhaps did change the world.

If the world doesn't care, why did we give millions to the Tsunami appeal? Why did we give millions to red nose day?

People do care, but the scale of the problem is so huge.

does complaining that a bunch of cyclists are holding up traffic indicate that you don't care. Or does it just indicate that you consider their methods to be inappropriate.

And the responses of people who first consider themselves and their families is also to be expected. It's all well and good being altruistic, but if as a few people have suggested you make this the highest priority in your life, you're probably not going to have a family, house or job for that long and in the long run you'll achieve less that way than you would through getting on with your life and supporting change when you can.

Just a thought, but I wouldn't have even known this protest was taking place if it hadn't been for this thread - and I was driving on the ring road and eccy road just before 13:00 on Saturday.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
28 views and not one reply. Are you feeling the guilt, Sheffield Forum?

I'm not going to read any further than this post, as I know what this thread will be like, it will be a "you're all so awfull for not caring as much as me, I'm such a good person and you're all bad, shame on you, etc. etc. etc."

I don't need telling me how I should feel.

Originally posted by nick2
I'm not going to read any further than this post, as I know what this thread will be like, it will be a "you're all so awfull for not caring as much as me, I'm such a good person and you're all bad, shame on you, etc. etc. etc."

I don't need telling me how I should feel.
It was only a bit tongue in cheek Nick, in fact it was more due to my curiosity with how much more the 'read' count is thant the 'posted' count. So many lurkers!

Originally posted by cgksheff
Rosie,

I'm half guessing that you are in the middle of exams. in which case .... good luck.

But if you really want to see if you can make a difference or not, then running off to a kibutz is certainly not the answer!

Contact VSO and see what you can do in Africa instead.

http://www.vso.org.uk/volunteering/

I wouldn't really go and join a kibbutz! I'm going to straight to uni but have been looking into some voluntary work for next summer.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
It was only a bit tongue in cheek Nick, in fact it was more due to my curiosity with how much more the 'read' count is thant the 'posted' count. So many lurkers!

google regularly spiders boards like this, so 50% of those reads may have been google indexing spiders.

Originally posted by nick2
I'm not going to read any further than this post, as I know what this thread will be like, it will be a "you're all so awfull for not caring as much as me, I'm such a good person and you're all bad, shame on you, etc. etc. etc."

I don't need telling me how I should feel.

Wish I'd done the same....

:gag:

One example of a caring for people.
I worked at a baby clinic whose name I shall not say.
And the clinic was given almost new/new baby clothes to give out to needy Mothers.
So I was asked by the health visitor to sort baby clothes for one women with a new baby and obviously hard up.
Thinking she would be embarrassed by me handing them out to her in front of other mothers I lifted the blankets on her pram to tuck them under her pram covers.
And there under the babies blankets were the contents of our
Toy cupboard, which she was stealing.

hazel

Hi rosie
I went to a centre yesterday for people mostly in wheelchairs who cannot get about but live at home on their own.
I was talking to one lady who had no one to shop for her at all and was existing on what she had in her cupboards.
Reading how you feel about caring I thought this could be someting you could get your teeth into as there must be many people in the same boat.
Would be a chance to make your mark on the world in a way that counts by giving of your time.

hazel

I think we should take care of our own first then we can look outside the country. There are an awfull lot that can be done in this country, once we have gone a long way to sorting these then perhaps we can look at other places.

I whole heartedly support the likes of Comic Relief, children in need and have partaken in activites and given money to every single one there has been because they spend equal amounts here and over seas.

I think people should have a look whats on there doorstep instead of looking the other way and making themselves feel better by helping someone thousands of miles away.

NoseyRosie
You are obviously a person of very high moral values and I sincerely hope that your beliefs and true heart don't wither with age and cynicism as some have on here.
Good luck with your studies and your hopes.

Don't listen to people who say the problem is to huge to help.

Well done !

Originally posted by Olliekitten
NoseyRosie
You are obviously a person of very high moral values and I sincerely hope that your beliefs and true heart don't wither with age and cynicism as some have on here.
Good luck with your studies and your hopes.

Don't listen to people who say the problem is to huge to help.

Well done !

Thanks! It's all compliments for me today! Nice turn up for the books after my ex boy-friend just insulted me :rolleyes: thanks guys.

Originally posted by hazel
Hi rosie
I went to a centre yesterday for people mostly in wheelchairs who cannot get about but live at home on their own.
I was talking to one lady who had no one to shop for her at all and was existing on what she had in her cupboards.
Reading how you feel about caring I thought this could be someting you could get your teeth into as there must be many people in the same boat.
Would be a chance to make your mark on the world in a way that counts by giving of your time.

hazel

I'd be perfectly happy to do this if I have free time - I'm already getting a job and doing some voluntary work in Oxfam over the summer. If anyone knows anyone in my area who needs a hand with shopping or something over the summer you can put me in contact!

Also, is it possible for this woman to order shopping from, say, Tesco.com?

Hi Rosie
She's not computer literate,
I explored that angle, it would be quite easy otherwise
then she explained it was also the putting away of her groceries.
I said what do you eat and she saiid one day I had scrambled eggs on toast, and the next day I had tinned tomatoes on toast. She does get a cooked meal when she attends the centre. but not everyday But the simple action of doing her shopping defeats her.
She's not in your area but thankyou for your reply you sound a girl that follows her principles
hazel

Originally posted by hazel
Hi Rosie
She's not computer literate,
I explored that angle, it would be quite easy otherwise
then she explained it was also the putting away of her groceries.
I said what do you eat and she saiid one day I had scrambled eggs on toast, and the next day I had tinned tomatoes on toast. She does get a cooked meal when she attends the centre. but not everyday But the simple action of doing her shopping defeats her.
She's not in your area but thankyou for your reply you sound a girl that follows her principles
hazel

Hazel
if you contact me via PM I am sure we can work something out to help this lady get her shopping done, provided she lives in our area.

P.S. I forgot to add I don't give a **** for owt else ;)

Originally posted by noseyrosie
After several of us have been completely shocked with the apathy and uncaring attitude of so many people on the G8 threads, my mind came to the question, 'why don't people care about the state of the world?'.

I always thought it was human nature to care about your fellow human beings. And there are hundreds of examples of political injustices carried out by the people we elect to power. So why are people happy to just get on with their 9-5 jobs and pretend that it isn't happening? I really really don't understand!

Every single day I feel sick to the stomach (honestly) when I think about how many people have sacrificed their lives for the life I am living right now. Your computer, made from oil gained through wars, that cause poverty. Your food, grown by people that get paid a pittance and are conned into contracts that leave them with no way out. Your clothes, made by children no older than your own, in sweat shops, also paid a pittance and having to work to get that 10p a day because their parents would starve otherwise. Your religious leaders, telling people in the third world that AIDs is punishment from God, and contraception will mean they go to hell.

Except....most people know this.

And still have a go at the 'damned leftie liberal hippy protestors' for trying to do something about it. And having the audacity to hold up their cars for half an hour. Which, by the way, are giving them asthma and causing acid rain all over the world.

So have I got some kind of emotion not present in everyone else? Why do I see so many people that don't care? How on earth can you not care?

Is it uncaring to care about one's family? After all, these are the people closest to our hearts. I wake up every morning and go to work to earn a living Noseyrosie just like most of the good people that use this Forum. I'm a hardworker, a long hour worker, an out of hour worker - in fact I'm probably in the office before you wake up and arriving back at the house long after you've eaten and loaded the dishwasher.

Just because I don't stand outside the town hall protesting that 'my voice be heard' doesn't mean I don't care about the plight of the African people. How naive and narrow a view you have if you believe this is the only way of demonstrating 'that you care'. How does banging a drum and waving a banner further the cause of the African people; in my opinion it serves only to satisfy a moral crusade. Furthermore, if you really cared you wouldn't spend time criticising others for not acting in the same way as you. Your fickle rant about others apparently not caring facilitates the inflation of your caring ego only further.

You're wrong when you say that religious leaders spout that AIDS is a punishment from God. Instead they speak out against the promiscuity that is rife in African society but decline to advocate the use of condoms as a tool to faciliate an immoral lifestyle.

You speak of the widespread criticisms of 'damned leftie liberal hippy protestors' and you're damned right, if you're one of them - you do annoy and inconvenience me! You annoy me because you think the only way to raise an objection is to block a road, you think you can fight the plights of the world by lying in front of a bus and most of all you annoy me because you think this simple minded civil disobedience demonstrates that you 'care'.

You need to stop and realise that a wristband, a drum and a banner doesn't necessarily further the cause of Making Poverty History. This has to be pursued through diplomatic means; by carefully planning a course of action, looking at the reasons behind poverty and developing a solution to counter it. Only when all this has been considered can a lasting remedy be implemented.

Just reread the original topic;

Why have people stopped caring?

This implies that it used to be different. Can you tell us Rosie when it was that people did care, and when exactly they stopped?

I concur wholeheartedly with the views, so eloquently and elegantly expressed by my friend, Jon Parr. Futile and petulant attempts to stop the flow of traffic will not make the slightest difference to African poverty, of which grotesque greed and improvidence on behalf of the bloated pigs who should be providing governance, and cultural/ educational backwardness on behalf of the general populations are causal variables.

Rosey's flippant linking of motor vehicles and asthma is highly problematic and questionable too. There is no clear-cut medical consensus on the causal factors of asthma. As in the case of African poverty, perhaps we can think here in terms of a cluster of possible variables. At any rate, there exists no absolute, intrinsic proof that car fumes cause asthma in all cases. Has Rosey considered the possible outcome of attempts to stop traffic? What happens if someone has a severe life-threatening, acute asthma attack and ambulances are unable to reach them due to the 'protest' of 'caring' people? Their likely death would be rather ironic, given Rosey's insistence that cars are 'giving people asthma'...

Originally posted by timo
Futile and petulant attempts to stop the flow of traffic will not make the slightest difference to African poverty

I must disagree with you there timo. If people can't drive to the shops then they will be unable to purchase wristbands to help eradicate African poverty.

How would our nation's consience survive if its heart was deprived of its place upon society's sleeve? :)

Swan Vesta,
Good point, dear heart. The protesters remind me of the Evangelical wing of the Cof E, the dreadful moist-eyed, anorak-wearing guitarists of the Happy Clappy brigade. Both types of people are wont to self-righteousness, and tend to jump up and down, squawking hellishly.

Timo,

Thank you. I must agree, the similarity is striking. Could we bear the heavy load of depriving these poor creatures of their seemingly endless desire to wallow in an outpouring of frenzied sympathetic protesting for the plight of those less fortunate?
Speaking only for myself, I must admit, I could not shoulder the burden.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime, impede my journey home with your silly protesting antics and you don't even show him a picture of a fish finger.

Originally posted by JonJParr
You're wrong when you say that religious leaders spout that AIDS is a punishment from God. Instead they speak out against the promiscuity that is rife in African society but decline to advocate the use of condoms as a tool to faciliate an immoral lifestyle.

I think you'll find that it is commonly thought throughout the countries most affected by AIDs that having sex with a virgin will cure you of the disease, thereby often elading to rape. THis is not promiscuity. I spoke to a Catholic priest a few months ago about this and he had no answer for me - he admitted that this rape took place but said that the Catholic church's only answer was to promote abstinence - pretty useless in the case of rape, don't you think? And yes, they have told people time and time again of the 'evils' of contraception. Surely it is more evil to allow the spreading of such a truly horrible disease?

Originally posted by JonJParr
You need to stop and realise that a wristband, a drum and a banner doesn't necessarily further the cause of Making Poverty History. This has to be pursued through diplomatic means; by carefully planning a course of action, looking at the reasons behind poverty and developing a solution to counter it. Only when all this has been considered can a lasting remedy be implemented.

But of course. The reason for the protesting is because we are not happy with the way that the government are(n't) taking action to implement lasting political change. We don't want them to think they can get away with the abominations they have been committing all these years. It's an act of democracy - the peoples' voice. They should know how we feel, and if they aren't going to let us have any influence on the running of the country, through referendums or whatnot, then this seems to be the only effective way.

Originally posted by owdlad
Hazel
if you contact me via PM I am sure we can work something out to help this lady get her shopping done, provided she lives in our area.

P.S. I forgot to add I don't give a **** for owt else ;)

I hope this wasn't a dig at me. I didn't want to imply that I didn't care if she didn't live in my area, but surely there are people with such problems all over the place, and it would be more useful for me to help someone I could get to easily. I don't drive, so it's pretty difficult for me to get around the city.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
I hope this wasn't a dig at me. I didn't want to imply that I didn't care if she didn't live in my area, but surely there are people with such problems all over the place, and it would be more useful for me to help someone I could get to easily. I don't drive, so it's pretty difficult for me to get around the city.

im sure if she was having a go at you she wouldnt be sending you a private message

Rosey,
What 'abominations' have the Blair Government 'been committing all these years'? As a card-carrying Tory, I intensely dislike Blair and his Roundheads for their nannying, hectoring interventionist style of 'big' government. I dislike their disrespect for tradition, their 'red tape', 'stealth taxes', stance on Iraq, politically-correct views on 'race', hunting etc. However, to say that they have committed 'abominations' is ludicrous. I assume that you mean 'abominations' in relation to African poverty too. The Blair government have done a very great deal to render the middle classes of Britain much poorer through punitive and sly methods of taxation, but they have provided millions in aid for Africa. I would have thought that you would approve of such action.

Rosie, not sure whether you meant me but
I wasn't diggingg at you
I just wanted to see whether you were prepared to help by giving your time and you were.
It's not your fault you don't live near or drive.
You were prepared to help if you could.
hazel

I pm'd owdlad.

Originally posted by hazel
Rosie, not sure whether you meant me but
I wasn't diggingg at you
I just wanted to see whether you were prepared to help by giving your time and you were.
It's not your fault you don't live near or drive.
You were prepared to help if you could.
hazel

I pm'd owdlad.

I meant owdlad.

This implies that it used to be different. Can you tell us Rosie when it was that people did care, and when exactly they stopped?

Dear Rosie,

I hope your stepdad is ok. I have read this thread carefully. I agree with a lot on both sides really - without wanting to be patronising you remind me of me about two years back.

Asking people to be bothered about bigger issues is like banging your head against a brick wall.

Generally people take offence, and you entrench their views even further. Then there are people who will disagree about who's fault the problems are - and you kind of get to realise that 'blame' is a slippery concept - it is the fault of pretty much everyone in the world that africa is in the state its in - africans, english, chinese, you know? You could argue about it all day :)

Then you will get some, not disimilar to dear JonJParr, who think that all you do in protest is lie in front of buses.

Some think its ok to treat you with a kind of 'silly little girl attitude' - you will have to get used to this because it will happen your whole life through, with employers, etc. 'You don't know what the real world's like, etc' - well, don't worry, they don't either, really, they're just bigots.

I really appreciate your point about consumer lifestyles being supported by poor hard working folk the world over. This is true, and you're right to be upset about it.

In my experience now, its better to live your life as a good person and try and make your point subtly - pick your words carefully and lead by example. Its the only way to convince people. I am still very involved in politics, I've just diverted my attention and energies from mass demos to volunteer work, as I find after a few years all the stress of organising stuff for such little payoff, it can grind you down.

I would love to chat to you more rosie you seem like a great lass with a lot of spirit :)

to answer your topic title Rosie.

whilst the people on here may not share the same opinions on issues or act in a certain way. The number of responses alone must show that people do care. They may have different priorities 9and mine are similar to yours) but they do care

Interesting, isn't it - what is more important - the world's problems or your childrens problems? The worlds problems are your childrens problems in a way - I have no doubt that future generations will look back at us and wonder would they not have done more.

Suppose these things are hard to concentrate on when you've got lunchboxes to fill and school play costumes to make and nappies to change and sick to clear up though! :)

Here's an interesting site, people :

http://www.timebanks.co.uk/index.asp

As an aside, it's probably true to say that it's only the generations born after WW2 that have had the luxury of having the time, energy and resources to bother about further flung parts of the world and their problems.

If you look at the great social reformers in Victorian times, they were often wealthy people or people with influence, who often made change stick by working through changes in law or developed policies on the back of enlightened self-interest.

How much of what is felt today is actually a good dose of liberal guilt, that we can start feeling because we ARE fed, watered, housed, supplied with relatively cheap energy and lots of baubles?

This isn't a 'poke' at anyone - just an observation. I have to say that my main charitable concerns are very close to home - education, the mentally or emotionally ill, assistive technologies and homelessness - because I've had either direct experience or close association with them all. I can empathise with people in these situations more easily than I can with the poverty stricken in a foreign country.

I appreciate that that makes me sound a callous so and so, and I'm quite interested in the ideas that have been mooted recently about 'kitchen table' charities that are small scale charities dedicated to helping a specific community or project in Africa or Asia. But the 'big events' leave me cold.

Anyway...watch this space 'cos I'm cooking up a web site at the moment to try and create a sort of 'Sheffield Forum' dedicated to small charities and individuals who want to help.

Joe



Joe

Originally posted by noseyrosie
I hope this wasn't a dig at me. I didn't want to imply that I didn't care if she didn't live in my area, but surely there are people with such problems all over the place, and it would be more useful for me to help someone I could get to easily. I don't drive, so it's pretty difficult for me to get around the city.

Had I been meaning it for you the message would surely not have started with someone else's name. :shakes:

Be careful on that high horse, it's a long way down when you fall!