In a new regulation due to come into force on 1 December 2003, it will be an offence to use a hand-held phone, or similar device, whilst driving. The penalty is a £30 fixed penalty or up to £1,000 on conviction in court (£2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles, buses or coaches). Drivers still risk prosecution (for failure to have proper control) if they use hands-free phones when driving.

More info is available directly from Dept. of Transport at:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_025216.hcsp

I know most of you a) probably know about this and b) don't drive while using a phone anyway ;) - but nevertheless I thought it was worth telling those that might not know.

Is this a welcomed law in your opinion?

Originally posted by Geoff


Is this a welcomed law in your opinion?

In my opinion yes it is. About time too.
I don't think the fines are high enough though and I think you should get points on your license too.

Nomme

Same here.

And for all those people who say "It's only like talking to someone" or "It's only like changing the radio station" - don't forget that you can get prosecuted for those things too if you're not taking care and paying attention to the road!

It just makes me laugh that you can eat, smoke etc. while driving and if you are seen you 'may' get pulled over but if it's a phone then you will get pulled over and fined. Some consistency would be nice....

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Some consistency would be nice.... True. But you could say the same for the whole legal system! ;)

I saw in the papers a few years ago that a woman got prosecuted for drinking out of a bottle of water whilst stopped at some traffic lights. :o

I guess the point is that if you're eating or drinking, you could still be in control and paying attention. However, the chances that you're in control whilst you're on your mobile phone is less likely.

That's nonsense though - you can use a mobile phone and still be in as much control of a vehicle as you are when eating, drinking, smoking or changing the radio. Outlaw them all or none at all - just my 2 pence :)

Originally posted by fnkysknky
That's nonsense though - you can use a mobile phone and still be in as much control of a vehicle as you are when eating, drinking, smoking or changing the radio. Outlaw them all or none at all - just my 2 pence :) Agreed.

Also, some people are great drivers whilst eating, smoking, using mobile phones, etc... and some people are terrible drivers whilst concentrating as hard as they possibly can!

It should be on a case by case basis - which, at the end of the day, that's up to the officer that spots you using your mobile phone (just as it is with the other things).

I see poeple using mobiles while driving at least a dozen times a day. I hope that this will now be a useful deterrent.

I think using a handset should be banned whilst driving, but they should never ban hands free kits as these are no more distracting than talking to a passenger.

Originally posted by t020
I think using a handset should be banned whilst driving, but they should never ban hands free kits as these are no more distracting than talking to a passenger.

A passenger in the car would know when its appropriate and when not safe to talk though - someone on the phone would not.

Just remembered posting this a while back:Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
They did some tests on TV a while back to prove that when you use your mobile phone, you don't concentrate on the road properly.

The basically had a conversation with someone over a mobile phone (using a hands free kit) whilst they were driving around a short course. Afterwards, they asked questions about the conversation to see whether the driver had been paying attention. What I seem to remember them discovering was that all the drivers drove fine but could hardly recall any details about the conversations.

What this proved was that it was the conversation that suffered, not the driving. They tried to use this as proof that your concentration drops when when you're on the phone... erm... well, that's true - what they didn't really make a big deal of is that their driving didn't suffer!

Anyway... IMHO I think that driving with proper in car hands free kits should be fine. I'm a little more uncertain about a normal personal hands free kit though, as those are a bit "fiddly".

BTW... isn't it illegal to drive without due care and attention anyway? So why ban something that's already covered by law? :? From here: http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=2260

As a hands-free kit occasional user, I can definitely say that I would fail any observation test afterwards concerning my journey. I dont remember getting to where I am, that sort of thing. So I would disagree with that inserted quote, from whoever.

I dont know why it is different with a thing in your ear, to having someone sitting in the passenger seat, but in my view it is.

I try only to use it when I have to, perhaps now I will learn not to use it at all

I dont think it is safe, speaking as a perp

:nono:

It seems to be down to this. When you are speaking on the phone, hand free or otherwise, your reaction times take a massive hit. It has been speculated, although not proven, that this is because the mind works very hard to imagine (empathise with) the person at the other end. The reaction time hit is in the same order as that of moderate (still illegal) drink driving.

Having a non-hands free merely compounds the issue by keeping one hand off the wheel.

Hope they actually inforce this and stop people using there mobiles whilst driving altogether.
Fines should be bigger.
I don't use mine at all in the car and if it rings i stop if poss or ignore it til it is poss ible to do so.
Also don't agree with doing anything else whilst driving either.

Originally posted by fuzzy purple
Hope they actually inforce this and stop people using there mobiles whilst driving altogether.
Fines should be bigger.
I don't use mine at all in the car and if it rings i stop if poss or ignore it til it is poss ible to do so.
Also don't agree with doing anything else whilst driving either.


Changing radio stations? Changingt the air-con settings? Putting down the windows? etc etc.

Air Con? Now there's fancy! Opening the windows is normally enough!

not using indicators??, must follow you alot then :)

I meant like eating, drinking,and smoking, other use of hands, stuff that doesn't involve actually driving.

Originally posted by fuzzy purple
I meant like eating, drinking,and smoking, other use of hands, stuff that doesn't involve actually driving.


Yet these things don't take away much more, if any, concentration compared to 'driving' tasks, such as windows up/down, tuning the radio, adjusting the seat, etc etc. I often eat at the wheel, things like crisps, sweets, etc, and can honestly say that checking the speedo constantly to make sure I don't drift a few mph over the limit with cameras lurking by is a lot more detrimental to my concentration.

Originally posted by fuzzy purple
I meant like eating, drinking,and smoking, other use of hands, stuff that doesn't involve actually driving.
As t020 pointed out, most of these things can be done without too much problem or safety hit.

but using a phone, hands free or not, has been repeatedly shown in research to have a larger detrimental effect on reaction times than drink driving.

It's the speed of thought, not hands on the controls that governs how alert you are to a rapidly changing situation (like someone popping out in fornt of you without warning as you overtake them)

This is severely affected when speaking to another person on the phone and not if they are next to you.

It has been speculated that because the person you are talking to is actually in the car, they are quite often watching the traffic too and times their conversation when they see you are trying to concentrate.

The person on the end of a phone has no idea of the situation is in, and will happily drop bombshells down the phone at you regardless.

All that quite apart from the empathy/body language factor. If you are speaking to someone on the phone, you are actually thinking about them, recalling their face, gestures, expressions etc.

If you don't know them already, you try and build up a picture of who they are. THis is the crucially distracting factor that is peculiar to using a phone.

You don't need much brain power to open a chocolate bar, but you need loads to conjure up a person from a disembodied voice...

I wonder if that includes wagon drivers hurtling along at 56mph. On 40 tonnes and using the hand held CB radio mic?

Radio 2 will lose it's traffic reports if that is the case.

Perhaps on a lap top, reading and typing emails will not be covered?

Is sex still permitted? :o

Never know with this lot.

December the 1st arrives and they are only going to tell people off for the first 2 months, let them get used to it. And the reason, because people don't know about it. D'oh in the papers, on the radio and tv, and on the net. What are they going to do in a couple of months when people still say they don't know.

What was the point in bringing this law in if now they are not going to use it? Typical.

There was a senior Police chief on TV ther other day and he was been quized about this law. He was made to look a fool when he couldn't give no clear answer to possible scenarios that could occur.

I once saw a police car driving through Crookes at huge speed, blue lights flashing, with the driver talking into his hand held radio, one hand on the wheel. Crookes is bad enough to drive through at sub-thirty speeds.

Why is it legal for the police to use a hand held radio, but not for others to use a mobile phone? It strikes me as being just as dangerous - if not more so if they are speeding at the same time. If their answer is "they have been specially trained" can we not all go on a course to learn how to use a mobile phone and drive at the same time?

Because...
Police drivers are highly trained. You are not.
Police drivers have to pass tests to do it. You do not.
Police drivers are in great need of being somewhere fast. You are not.
Police drivers are usually with a buddy who communicates. You are not.

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
I once saw a police car driving through Crookes at huge speed, blue lights flashing, with the driver talking into his hand held radio, one hand on the wheel. Crookes is bad enough to drive through at sub-thirty speeds.

Why is it legal for the police to use a hand held radio, but not for others to use a mobile phone? It strikes me as being just as dangerous - if not more so if they are speeding at the same time. If their answer is "they have been specially trained" can we not all go on a course to learn how to use a mobile phone and drive at the same time?
I thought that you are a pilot? Surely you more than most appreciate the difference between "push to talk" uniplex comms and duplex mobile phones?

Looking around, it hasn't affected anyone at all! Still plenty using their mobiles. The stupid thing is this 2 month 'softly softly' period. Do the police actually think people don't know about this law afterall the press coverage it has received for months?? Drivers can just plead ignorance and the cops are stupid enough to think that they genuinely didn't know the new law was in effect, and let them off with a warning. Next time I see someone, I may have to pull them up and perform a citizens arrest.

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
Why is it legal for the police to use a hand held radio, but not for others to use a mobile phone?

I was going to post somthing similar. Remember "Traffic Cops" which was on TV earlier this year? That followed South Yorkshire Police, and showed one officer, in an unmarked high speed persuit car, on his own, using a hand held radio whilst driving.

When I watched the programme, I thought it was dangerous - how can he possibly have proper control of the car, at high speed, driving on pavements, driving through red lights, when he's holding a radio?

I trust that South Yorkshire Police have installed "Hands Free" radios in their police cars. Glass houses and all that.

Originally posted by Tony
Because...
Police drivers are highly trained. You are not.
Police drivers have to pass tests to do it. You do not.
Police drivers are in great need of being somewhere fast. You are not.
Police drivers are usually with a buddy who communicates. You are not.

Police driver was on his own, using a hand held radio (one hand on the wheel), driving at high speed through a busy shopping area.

If I went on a course, it would be no excuse. It struck me as potentially highly dangerous at the time - now there is a law against hand held mobiles, I hope the Police have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us. Or is it do as I say and not as I do?

Originally posted by Tony
I thought that you are a pilot? Surely you more than most appreciate the difference between "push to talk" uniplex comms and duplex mobile phones?

No, I am not a pilot.

It was still a hand held communications device - just one hand on the steering wheel, holding a conversation? Isn't that the point of the new law?

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
No, I am not a pilot.

It was still a hand held communications device - just one hand on the steering wheel, holding a conversation? Isn't that the point of the new law?
The new law does not include "push to talk" devices. Maybewe will see the rise of the CB radio ? :thumbsup:

I read in the paper the other day some clarification about the new law.

The law states that you can not 'hold' the phone in your hand. Not even for a split second. Therefore you can press buttons to make calls and text message, as long as the phone is not held. So you only need to have a cradle on the dashboard to hold it and you can press buttons as much as you like to text (like changing the radio) and you can choose a number to call and use a hands free kit. So basically you still have the situation where one hand is on the wheel and concentration is lost. The paper was advising people to buy a cradle so if they get stopped they have proof they didn't hold it.

removed by spook.

Forum user Andy suggested I ask the police where they stand with regards to using their own mobile phones and radios while driving. I have now received a reply from a spokesperson at South Yorkshire police, which reads:

"Police officers do not use mobile telephones as a primary means of communication because they are issued with two-way radios. The law in fact prohibits police officers from using hand-held mobile telephones whilst driving in the same was as the general public. The same exemptions also apply to them however - they can use 2-way radios whilst driving and can also use hand held mobile telephones in an emergency where there is no safe alternative to park up safely."

:)

So we all get fined and the police are allowed to continue doing whatever the hell they want :loopy:

Found this (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003561737,,00.html) story ammusing.

removed by spook.

Originally posted by spook1210
No because you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

If it's dangerous, then neither should the police.

Come on, they do have a slightly different set of priorities when they are using telecomms - like preserving life and property.

Your "record eastenders for me" isnt really the same.

nice!

so the idea of restricting mobile phone use while driving is to save lives.

20 related deaths in five years

smoking cigarettes kills 120,000 yearly and increasing

what was the law on that one sorry?

Originally posted by Geoff
Forum user Andy suggested I ask the police where they stand with regards to using their own mobile phones and radios while driving. I have now received a reply from a spokesperson at South Yorkshire police, which reads:

"Police officers do not use mobile telephones as a primary means of communication because they are issued with two-way radios. The law in fact prohibits police officers from using hand-held mobile telephones whilst driving in the same was as the general public. The same exemptions also apply to them however - they can use 2-way radios whilst driving and can also use hand held mobile telephones in an emergency where there is no safe alternative to park up safely."

:)
Just to add to this, the new law states that lorry drivers may also still use their CB radio systems, so it's not just the Police that are allowed to use a form of communication system.

The general public is also allowed to use their mobile if unable to stop the car, without handsfree, should it be an absoloute emergency. Not sure how they would decide what was and wasn't, but that's how the law stands...

Originally posted by venger
nice!

so the idea of restricting mobile phone use while driving is to save lives.

20 related deaths in five years

smoking cigarettes kills 120,000 yearly and increasing

what was the law on that one sorry?

The law states quite rightly that if you choose to kill yourself by inhaling tobacco smoke that you should not only pay 10 times the cost of your treatment in tax, but that you must be over 16 and you may only do so where smoking is not prohibited.

People using mobile telephones who are involved in accidents as a result, rarely end up severely damaging only themselves.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme


People using mobile telephones who are involved in accidents as a result, rarely end up severely damaging only themselves.

I do agree, I welcome the law to be completely honest.

I was just talking statistics Phan.

Many, many accidents are caused by people talking on mobiles while driving, I consider this a mega problem!

We are very good at keeping people alive these days, and I dont want to be a victim/patient giving more practice for their skills because some tw*t rang to say, I will be home in ten minutes chicken!!!!

Is anyone out there (apart from me),taking notice of the LAW that states you cannot use a mobile phone while driving? I am sick to the back teeth of people nearly ramming into me while talking on the phone.Would these same people go through a red light or drive the wrong way down a one way street without giving a toss for the law,because it all adds up to the same thing,it's illegal.

And dont you just feel like giving them a left hook,after they have just nearly rammed you off the road,they give you that smug look,as if to say "what ya gonna do about it"

They should have snitch line like what they have for benefit cheats so you could grass em up and wipe the smug grin off their faces.

there will always be those who think the law dont apply to them

sad B******s

This law is as stupid as the one stating that dogs falling into the 'dangerous' category should be muzzled.

Nobody polices these laws and they are only siginificant if there is a road accident in the case of phones or an attack in the case of dogs.

Originally posted by Mo
This law is as stupid as the one stating that dogs falling into the 'dangerous' category should be muzzled.

Nobody polices these laws and they are only siginificant if there is a road accident in the case of phones or an attack in the case of dogs.

Are you saying we should not have these laws then? Dont get what your saying.

Originally posted by Mo
This law is as stupid as the one stating that dogs falling into the 'dangerous' category should be muzzled.

Nobody polices these laws and they are only siginificant if there is a road accident in the case of phones or an attack in the case of dogs.

The dogs law is a knee jerk reaction to isolated(tho tragic) incidents,whereas the mobile phones while driving law is needed.

ill confess ive been guilty in the past of answering a call while driving and nearly coming a cropper,my fault entirely,and it shook me up.

but i dont do it now,and in the last seven days,with my kids in the car ive nearly been side swiped twice by people too interested in the call they were taking. incredibly,one of them, a womean,got out of her car to have a go at me while still having the call in progress(telling the other person she was dealing with a d1ckhead driver) total madness

Originally posted by gizmo
The dogs law is a knee jerk reaction to isolated(tho tragic) incidents,whereas the mobile phones while driving law is needed.

ill confess ive been guilty in the past of answering a call while driving and nearly coming a cropper,my fault entirely,and it shook me up.

I agree with all that lot.
Before it was illegal i did answer a call whilst driving and nearly crashed, so i never did it again! You cannot talk on the phone and drive at the same time. IT IS NOT SAFE!

2 near crashes? Has it occured to you that it's more than likely your own fault? Just because they had a phone in their hand doesn't make it their fault.

If you crashed into the back of someone that was holding a phone, would you still blame them?

Originally posted by jackthedog
I agree with all that lot.
Before it was illegal i did answer a call whilst driving and nearly crashed, so i never did it again! You cannot talk on the phone and drive at the same time. IT IS NOT SAFE!

It is quite possible for someone to drive and talk on a phone safely - some can do it, some can't - obviously though it's safer if all are stopped from doing so.

Originally posted by gizmo
The dogs law is a knee jerk reaction to isolated(tho tragic) incidents,whereas the mobile phones while driving law is needed.


Dog attacks are hardly isolated - 6k postmen a year get bitten for a start...

Originally posted by GazB
2 near crashes? Has it occured to you that it's more than likely your own fault? Just because they had a phone in their hand doesn't make it their fault.

If you crashed into the back of someone that was holding a phone, would you still blame them?

actually it does make it their fault,had they looked right they would have seen me coming,and in law its their fault and for insurance purposes they wouldnt have a claim.
Driving without due care and attention its called
of course it would be my fault if i ran into the back of anyone be they talking on the phone or not

1. man on phone coming out of side road pulled out without looking,i was on the main carraigeway,swerved to avoid hitting him and he just drove off

2. woman pulling out of petrol station while on phone,i was again on main carraigeway tho this time i had to brake to avoid collision.
and there were witnesses

i dont profess to be mr perfect driver,but i try not to be a selfish unsafe idiot.i drive a lot of miles in a day and i think i have a pretty good safety record for the 12 years ive been driving,but as i say im not perfect.

im sure not all mobile phone users are as unsafe as these two were,but in the event of collision it would have been their fault

if you are part of the "ill use my phone and so what" brigade.
i hope for your sake and anyone elses your gamble pays off

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Dog attacks are hardly isolated - 6k postmen a year get bitten for a start...

sorry about that, i stand corrected.
i was referring to the tragic incidents of dogs badly mauling kids and adults

Originally posted by fnkysknky
It is quite possible for someone to drive and talk on a phone safely - some can do it, some can't - obviously though it's safer if all are stopped from doing so. Its also quite possible for people to think they can drink a little then drive but the fact is no matter how much you think you can do it, it affects your concentration and ability to react as quickly as possible

When I was filtering through traffic this morning on my ickle Vespa, I saw a woman driving her car while applying make-up in her rear view mirror.

Did she see me coming?

What do you do/see others do while driving?

Was it that ok because she was not using a mobile phone?

Originally posted by wibbles
Its also quite possible for people to think they can drink a little then drive but the fact is no matter how much you think you can do it, it affects your concentration and ability to react as quickly as possible

Being under the influence of drugs and holding a conversation on a mobile phone are quite different. I'm not saying you should be allowed to use a mobile while driving, I'm for the ban - I'm just stating that some people can stay in control even while on the phone.