Hi all,

I don't know if anyone remembers, but 3 years ago (23rd December) my dog Max died after he was lost the use of his back legs. We bought another dog, Zack, shortly afterwards.

He had all of his jabs, but from a very early age he had health problems, mainly with his skin. He was scratching himself constantly, and we think it was an allergy to carpet/dust mites. The vets (after they couldn't figure out what it could be) "advised" to start him on steroids. He's been on and off (more on than off) them for about 2.5 years, as advised by the vet, as they appeared to make his condition better.

2 weeks ago he went to the vets for his parvo booster shot.

After 5 - 10 days he was excreting blood, throwing up everywhere, seemed very down and then on 23rd December he struggled to stand up. We went to the vets on 23rd who gave him a couple of jabs and dismissed it as anything serious, despite my mum saying could it be parvo - The vet said no, and didn't do a parvo test (which I have since learnt only takes 15 minutes). She sent us on our way. Later that night he got really bad, so my parents took him to the emergency vets who was pretty much the same as the last vet, gave him a couple of injections and sent him on his way.

About 4 hours later (early hours of xmas eve) he died.

After many hours of research I have since found that:

Steroids should ALWAYS be used as a VERY LAST resort, and that these days vets give them out willy nilly because they "appear" to be a miracle cure, but they only subside the problems. They have many many side effects, the main one is that they severely weaken the immune system.

Booster shots do more damage than good. Dogs are immune to parvo for 8 - 10 years, the vets should instead do a blood test that determines he still has a high antibody count.

Booster shots should never be given to dogs that have a weak immune system (whether naturally or because of drugs - ie, the steroids that the vets have kept him on for so long). They give a small dose of the virus so antibodies can be created.

So in short, the vets lowered Zacks immune system via the use of steroids, and whilst they knew he was on them (which they also should know weaken the immune system), they gave him a virus which killed him.

He was 3 years old, we're absolutely gutted because it was so sudden.

The vet is a massive chain, the individual one we went to is in Firth Park.

Whatever your vet wants to do - first research it on the internet, get a second opinion.

Thats awful, sorry to hear about Zack!!

See this thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1628931&postcount=252:) for some pics, he was a gorgeous dog.

Awwwwww what an awful story it brought tears to my eyes. The sad thing is that some vets (like doctors) are so used to treating infections/minor illnesses that when something big comes along they can misdiagnose it as a minor problem leading to misstreament (the same as Docs do-you go with severe headaches they send you away several times saying it's a migrane, some weeks later you have a brain tumour).

I hope you can write a letter to both these vets letting them know how they let you and your dog down and hopefully something will be done for the future.

It also highlights the need to shop around for a good vet, get some recommendations.

Oh no thats horrible :( sorry to hear that. Me and my mum are always wary of vets as we have a yorkshire terrier and a cat aswell as plenty more animals lol - but both were diagnosed wrongly. My cat was diagnosed with something and it was something totally different but due to the wrong medication he was on his now new found condition has now worsened :( and he is now a very wobbly poorly cat and a very expensive one at that my mum has spent 100's on him x

I have no doubt at all that the total cost of all the vets bills have exceeded a few thousand pounds easily.

It's absolutely shocking, I don't know how they get away with charging so much, but doing so little. His 10 minute appointment where she said he might have just swallowed a bit of a toy, gave him a quick injection and sent him off cost £75.

I'm yet to find a vet I trust. The first I used killed one of my pets through negligence, then had the audacity to ask me to pay for it!

2nd one doesn't seem much better but he hasn't killed anything yet...

I would be tempted to write to the Royal college of Vets (I think thats it) and send in a complaint

aww gaz i am so sorry to hear about zack, i remember max going cause i sent you a pm about my mums dog and you were lovely with the pm back. just so rotten the time of year and for something that was possibly avoidable from the start.x.x.x.

I'm guessing you're talking about springfield vets in Firth Park? I know some other people who have had many problems with them and won't dare go back. They don't seem to care about the animals, just the money they're trying to get!

Sorry to hear about your doggie though :(

Am so so sorry to hear about Zak, i would try and take it further, like peaches said write to the Royal college of vets. This is terriable. :(

Run free from the bridge Zak x

Hi all,

I don't know if anyone remembers, but 3 years ago (23rd December) my dog Max died after he was lost the use of his back legs. We bought another dog, Zack, shortly afterwards.

He had all of his jabs, but from a very early age he had health problems, mainly with his skin. He was scratching himself constantly, and we think it was an allergy to carpet/dust mites. The vets (after they couldn't figure out what it could be) "advised" to start him on steroids. He's been on and off (more on than off) them for about 2.5 years, as advised by the vet, as they appeared to make his condition better.

2 weeks ago he went to the vets for his parvo booster shot.

After 5 - 10 days he was excreting blood, throwing up everywhere, seemed very down and then on 23rd December he struggled to stand up. We went to the vets on 23rd who gave him a couple of jabs and dismissed it as anything serious, despite my mum saying could it be parvo - The vet said no, and didn't do a parvo test (which I have since learnt only takes 15 minutes). She sent us on our way. Later that night he got really bad, so my parents took him to the emergency vets who was pretty much the same as the last vet, gave him a couple of injections and sent him on his way.

About 4 hours later (early hours of xmas eve) he died.

After many hours of research I have since found that:

Steroids should ALWAYS be used as a VERY LAST resort, and that these days vets give them out willy nilly because they "appear" to be a miracle cure, but they only subside the problems. They have many many side effects, the main one is that they severely weaken the immune system.

Booster shots do more damage than good. Dogs are immune to parvo for 8 - 10 years, the vets should instead do a blood test that determines he still has a high antibody count.

Booster shots should never be given to dogs that have a weak immune system (whether naturally or because of drugs - ie, the steroids that the vets have kept him on for so long). They give a small dose of the virus so antibodies can be created.

So in short, the vets lowered Zacks immune system via the use of steroids, and whilst they knew he was on them (which they also should know weaken the immune system), they gave him a virus which killed him.

He was 3 years old, we're absolutely gutted because it was so sudden.

The vet is a massive chain, the individual one we went to is in Firth Park.

Whatever your vet wants to do - first research it on the internet, get a second opinion.Sorry to here of your loss...where did you get the info from saying booster shots are not needed as they are immune for 8-10 years after there initial injections

I'm guessing you're talking about springfield vets in Firth Park? I know some other people who have had many problems with them and won't dare go back. They don't seem to care about the animals, just the money they're trying to get!

Sorry to hear about your doggie though :(

I used to use this vet and Ive got to agree with you about the money its so true. My puppy has a skin complaint passed on from her mother. It cost near enough £135 for 1 treatment and skin scrape. I had to take her back in 2 weeks where again it cost me another £135. All i needed was some more solution to bath her. But no i had to pay the consultation fee and skin scrape fee again. I understand why but its discusting the amount they charge. So i decided to order the solution from the internet that cost £14. Thats a big difference. i did have to have a perscription in order for them to dispatch my order.

i have been at fith park vets or years but they recently have new vet, but i can assure you the old ones where fantastic

I'm guessing you're talking about springfield vets in Firth Park? I know some other people who have had many problems with them and won't dare go back. They don't seem to care about the animals, just the money they're trying to get!

Sorry to hear about your doggie though :(

yes they bloody do care bout the animals couse i used to work there if you havent worked there behind these scenes do not judge

I am so sorry to hear about your dog hun
I do trust our vets 100% they are Peak vets in woodseats and really know their stuff. we use them to cover both the dog walking side of our buisness and the small animal boarding. We have had several poorly buns over the years, which have all survived due to good care and attention from these vets.
one of our customers was out walking her 2 dogs in the local park, one of them began choking and she couldn't get the obstuction out, she rang peak vets , Steve one of the vets came running up into the park while Greg the other vet told her via her mobile what to do. They really care about the animals here.

Here's (http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/canine-vaccines.html) a link that gives a bit of info on the booster shots. I found several other resources that backed it up.

Thanks for the kind words - Rest assured we won't be letting this drop.

To add, on the first visit on 23rd Dec, as he is on the vets system as being a "naughty boy" (he's never gone for a person or another dog in his life, he just barks when vets go near him and got very stressed with them), the vet was very reluctant to go near him despite me holding him, and him wearing a muzzle.

yes they bloody do care bout the animals couse i used to work there if you havent worked there behind these scenes do not judge

That's funny because every person i know who's been to that vet has had to change because they wasn't really bothered about the animals, it's just about the money. Isn't it strange that so many people can say the same thing?

Here's (http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/canine-vaccines.html) a link that gives a bit of info on the booster shots. I found several other resources that backed it up.

Thanks for the kind words - Rest assured we won't be letting this drop.

To add, on the first visit on 23rd Dec, as he is on the vets system as being a "naughty boy" (he's never gone for a person or another dog in his life, he just barks when vets go near him and got very stressed with them), the vet was very reluctant to go near him despite me holding him, and him wearing a muzzle.Just had a good look at the link and loads of others..it looks like people have been coned for years..I had my dogs booster done last week ..wont be having it done again as I never new it contained mercury (causes cancer) amongst other problems the injections can cause..
People should be informed of the risks at the vets beforehand

I understand what you are upset about,,i had a problem with that particular vets without
going into detail, the male vet there mis-diagnosed..i contacted rotherham vets hospital.
william taylor one of the directors phoned me back, after a little investigation, i received
a letter of apology and a cheque for my money back..i just wondered if you had contacted
them and voiced your concerns, it may be worth a chat with one of the directors of the practice..

I'm so sorry to hear about Zack, thats just awful! We are living in a money hungry world I think.
I must admit my vets at Crystal peaks has been wonderful through all of Rubys little problems, nothing serious in the end but she was so poorly at one point. But the ppl there were lovely.
I was just looking at your pictures of him, bless, what a cutie! Very cheeky face!
I really can't think of anything else to say! I'm just really sorry! x

GazB, I remember Max and I remember Zack when he was a pup.

I'm so, so sorry to hear about Zack. I know how much he meant to you xx

I can't say anything else right now - I'm just so very sorry.

Hi GazB, so sorry for your loss.
I put a thread on here a few weeks ago when i was worried about the yearly innoculations and side effects.http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=421515&highlight=protocol
I still let my Jack Russel have her booster this year but i wont have it done yearly anymore.
Shes full of allergies, constant eye infections and ear infections, im almost certain the Jabs have compromised her immune system.
I didnt get many replies to my thread, so lets hope this thread makes people stand up and listen and not simply take every single thing the vet says as gospel.
Remember they are there to make money too.
Saying this though i have a vet whose prices are very very decent and half the price of one of the bigger well known vets.
That test you were on about GAZB, the titre test, makes so much more sense than having our animals pumped full of toxins year after year.

I am so sorry to hear about the terrible lead up to loosing your dog. I'm afraid that the more you unearth of these types of things - the worse they seem.

The terrible thing is that to see a dog die of Parvo is horrendous - i have witnessed it and its so distressing. I have also seen dogs die of parvo without the pain and ripping out of their insides. Looking into the jabs thing over the years - i wasn't an advocate for having dogs so frequently jabbed - its just as though its a 'nothing' thing - but really we are shooting dogs full of tremendous disease and virusus which they shouldn't be getting when their immune system is low.

Thats why when dogs go into the pounds - and they are so terribly poor - the shots they get can literally kill or cure them.

Its a very emotive subject and we all want to do whats best for our loved ones. However, when the parvo & distemper jabs were not done regularly - more dogs did definately die without them - so I do think they are needed - but just need to be looked upon as to how they are given.

I am sorry for you and for Zack having his life cut so short

Gazb im very sorry for the loss of zack , i lost my dog in the summer.

on the vet subject...i took my rat to the vet last tues after he was screcching for half a day, the vet said he had a 'twisted' testicle and gave him an subcutaneous injection of pain relief, i was in and out of the vets practice within litrally 5 mins.
she sed to bring him back on thurs to moniter his situation and if no better castration would be the answer.

i took him home and he was very quiet and i sat with him most of the night, i went to bed at 4am and when i went to check his cage at 8am he was dead. i wonder if she miss diagnosed him .. :(

Thanks for all the replies.

I've sent my Dad the complaint form for the Royal Veterinary College. It's not about money, no amount of money would bring Zack back, and I'm confident that any claim that is won, or any money we manage to get back, will be fully donated to a relevant charity.

Zack had a very good life, I wish all dogs had owners like my parents. With his health problems, I hate to think what would have happened to him if he ended up with a careless owner. With us he had a big house with a big back garden next to a park where he went 3 times a day.

I was looking at the rainrescue website and it tears my heart out to see so many animals stuck in cages. I live in an apartment now or I would certainly re-home one. If it wasn't for the heartache they've already endured I'm sure my parents would re-home one or two, but I just don't think they could handle losing another dog.

Thanks for all the replies.

I've sent my Dad the complaint form for the Royal Veterinary College. It's not about money, no amount of money would bring Zack back, and I'm confident that any claim that is won, or any money we manage to get back, will be fully donated to a relevant charity.

Is this the same form for proceedings against the practice and vet in question? if he/she is negligible then he/she should not be allowed to practice and potentionally do the same to other pets.

If you have all the dates/times and facts written down then I think it's something you should present to someone...even if it goes no-where at least you have raised the alarm.

I never have my dogs given boosters,they always have all their puppy injections, but sorry not boosters, as for vets I'm not convinced about any of them but still what else can you do when your little ones are ill, always question what they do, and I never totally trust them its your pet and you have a right to ask questions,When anything happens to them its not the vets who are left hearbroken, believe me I speak from experience.
So very sorry for your loss, I too lost aGerman Shepherd at three, and totally unecessary, vets again

I think you have to trust them most the time, same as doctors....they are in the position of years and years of training and their opinion 'should' be better than your own.

I am undecided about the whole booster issue. I had a long conversation with our vets about whether to give my 16yr old her Booster this year as she has various cancers etc. They felt she would be potentially more at risk through contracting an illness with not having the boosters. We decided to do it and she has been fine and i have to say i have never had any problems with any of my dogs.

Also as a rescue dog owner for one of my dogs i have a legal responsibility to keep him vaccinated as part of the adoption agreement that we signed and agreed to.

It's not as much about boosters being wrong or right - It's that the vet prescribed the use of a drug (steroids) without knowing it's full side effects (in this case a weak immune system) and then gave the booster whilst he was in a weak state.

I asked for this to be moved to the General Discussions forum so more people would see it and made aware, but that request has not been fulfilled.

sorry to hear about your poor dog, i have used the vet's myself an i know my sister has she has spen a fortune on test an injuections for her dog and it seems all they do for him is give steroid's an antibiotic's. He was once given one he had a really bad reaction an almost died yet on his next visit when the surgery was being updated his notes could not be found an the vet wanted to just risk it an give him another one. we have both had problems with this vet's an no longer use it.

We have little choice but to take what they say as true. Over the years I have dealt with many and cannot help but be amazed at the knowledge they possess. Sadly it isn't always possible to diagnose correctly first time as many symptoms occur in more than one infection/ailment. It's possible that any given medicine can have a side effect; the same is true of medicines we use, and in some cases those side effects can prove more serious than the original complaint. They have their critics but in the main do a good job for us and our pets. Prices vary considerably from one place to another and this is something that should be addressed. The problem now which i have mentioned on another post is that as more and more of us opt for pet insurance the prices creep higher and higher. As insurance companies pay out and increase their own costs year by year so to the vets raise their own prices safe in the knowledge that money is guaranteed. Insurance companies would do well to not only monitor this situation but be prepared to introduce a no claims system similar to that used by car insurance companies.

I don't vaccine my rotties for a reason! And in all my years of owning and fostering rotties I have never had a rottie with parvo maybe I am lucky but with rotties they are more common than most breeeds to get parvo but it hasn't been the case for me they are know offering an extra parvovirus(sp) for rotties at 16 weeksnand no one really knows how effective it is without the expensive titre test. I don't believe in spayin/neurtin before the age of 2 and I don't believe in yearly boosters esp in rottweilers

I'm so sorry to read this GazB, it must have been devastating for you to see Zac so ill when, it should have been avoidable. I looked at the photos and they were both beautiful dogs, it's terribly sad that you lost them both around Christmas too.

I agree with you that he shouldn't have received the parvo vaccine when his immune system was compromised by steroids.

This is certainly an example of blanket annual vaccinations having disastrous effects, but the drugs he was already being given SHOULD have been taken into consideration. People don't visit the doctor and have random drugs prescribed without due consideration being given to any existing medication. Dogs should be afforded the same, after all a vet is just their doctor. I don't blame you for taking this further.

As for the regularity that vaccinations are given, lots of vets adhere to the annual booster rule, others are becoming aware of the dangers and recommending that only the leptospirosis vaccine is administered annually. It's still rather diverse and until the RVC intervene, I guess it will continue to be.

An example of over dosing I will use is that of horses. The general recommendation is that tetanus is given every 2 years and flu every year. Flu jabs aren't entirely necessary unless the horse is visiting shows, whereupon it becomes compulsory. However, depending on the drug being applied, the pharmaceutical manufacturers' recommendations vary, for tetanus, between 3 and 5 years. Assuming that a horse is vaccinated for flu every year, the particular drug used is generally a dual purpose one that includes tetanus, therefore overdosing on tetanus.

It's been a few years since we decided that our ponies would only be vaccinated every 4 years for tetanus only, they don't visit shows. Anything else, in our opinion, would just be shoving unnecessary chemicals into them.

I don't, for one minute, suggest that people shouldn't have their animals vaccinated. As Rainrescue has already said, the vaccines have helped to control some horrendous diseases, but their administration should be modified.

I'm interested to know GazB, did the vet look at Zac's diet before prescribing steroids?

don't believe in yearly boosters esp in rottweilers

Interesting. I believe what it comes down to in the end is whether or not pet owners can be brave enough to not administer medicines and vaccines. I suppose logically speaking they have as much chance of becoming infected as we do of catching the flu (real flu not a bloody cold) yet we are quite happy to not use medicines in advance of any particular ailment unless certain conditions deem it necessary. Must admit you have me thinking and it might be worth a little research.

Interesting. I believe what it comes down to in the end is whether or not pet owners can be brave enough to not administer medicines and vaccines. I suppose logically speaking they have as much chance of becoming infected as we do of catching the flu (real flu not a bloody cold) yet we are quite happy to not use medicines in advance of any particular ailment unless certain conditions deem it necessary. Must admit you have me thinking and it might be worth a little research.

Absolutely! I adopted a kitten from the RSCPA years ago and had him vaccinated in the conventional manner. He became ill within a week or so, he was tested for everything and leukemia ruled out but still he deteriorated. I did contact the RSPCA at the time to enquire whether any of the other litter mates or mother had been reported ill, but didn't get a response. Subsquently I had to have him put to sleep as he had become seriously ill, there was never a conclusive result but it was suspected leukemia. I will always regret having put poor little Jacob through so many tests, as the vet later informed me that leukemia can't always be detected as "it can hide in the lymph nodes" - so why the hell did we do all that then?

Since then, my cats have never had a jab until they're ready to be neutered and allowed out. In all probability, Jacob was probably low immunity or actually born with leukemia and the vaccine brought it on, in which case it would have happened later regardless. I see little value in vaccinating kittens at an early age, where they live in an environment that won't bring disease into the home. In fact, it's almost a suggestion that they can now go out and I don't believe kittens should go outdoors until they have been neutered, vulnerability aside.

Ok so we have two dogs and religiously they receive their anual vaccines. Until fairly recently we had a cat who reached a 17 before she passed away and never had any jabs excepting for one visit to a cattery where it was mandatory. It wasn't a case of the dogs receiving preferential treatment and to be honest I have no excuses but she was fit throughout her life regardless of annual treatments.
Are we conned into believing they need vaccinating or is it a neccesity?

It's a double edged sword, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I'm personally sticking my nose in and researching as much as I can, the internet is a wonderful thing.

To be honest, I expected some insistence that the ponies had to go through another full course after missing the "recommended" update, but there was no such suggestion and there'd have been a fight about it anyhow.

There are loads of animals that just had their baby vaccs and have lived long lives, but by the same token there are others that haven't been so lucky. It's about moderation I think. My two oldest cats, who are now approaching 14 were vaccinated every year of their lives until 10, when it suddenly dawned on me that it could be excessive.

It was when I went for my own ten yearly tetanus jab and was told that I'd had 7 boosters in my life and it was now policy to not vaccinate unless there had been an injury that warranted it. We don't have annual jabs for diseases do we?

We don't have annual jabs for diseases do we?

No we don't.
There must have been a time when it was prudent to vaccinate and I'm sure that many of the diseases are still prevalent today but how likely is it that a dog will contract?
Leptospirosis affects both man and beast yet for us the danger is limited to farm work or people that indulge in water sports.
The problem for pet owners is that many of the industries that earn their money from us need only to link arms and make such vaccines a prerequisite if we are to reap the benefits of pet insurance for example.

No we don't.
There must have been a time when it was prudent to vaccinate and I'm sure that many of the diseases are still prevalent today but how likely is it that a dog will contract?
Leptospirosis affects both man and beast yet for us the danger is limited to farm work or people that indulge in water sports.
The problem for pet owners is that many of the industries that earn their money from us need only to link arms and make such vaccines a prerequisite if we are to reap the benefits of pet insurance for example.

You're right about prevelant diseases, I knew someone who died of Weils disease, he was a fisherman. I also have a friend who's dog survived it but that dog had previously been a working terrier. Perhaps the leptospirosis vaccine for dogs is excessive too, as you rightly suggest. Maybe we should insist on vaccinating people that come into contact with rat urine - eek, that would mean me, possibly, because of my rural activities but then it's said that there is a rat within 12 feet of any human, particulary urban dwellers. We just don't see them. We should all get vaccinated.

I really don't want to get into the insurance companies debate, they are only interested in money, end of!

Excuse me, there is a lot of scuffling going on in my kitchen. That will more than likely be Lulu having brought a present in, it's time to close the cat flap methinks.

Gaz, I am so sorry to hear about Zack.

I used to go to the same vet in Firth Park. When I took Meggy in 2005, I was told she had an infection in her mouth. A week later when she was no better despite the antbiotics, I saw William, who was absolutely wonderful. He immediately diagnosed squamous cell carcinoma, and advised that we put her to sleep. I remember being angry at the time that we had allowed her to suffer unnecessarily.

When we got Tilly the following year, I took her for her vaccination but William wasn't there and I saw the female vet. She put the needle straight through the skin on Tilly's neck and squirted me. As you can imagine, I wasn't impressed.

We now go to Abbey vets at High Green and they are much cheaper than Springfield. They also provide an excellent service - I can't fault them. They are much further away but well worth the extra travelling.

I've tried to find this article online but ended up typing it, so typos will be mine .....

Yearly Jab A Thing of the Past? Boosters may put animals at risk

A group of vets is calling on their profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination.

They say that evidence currently available shows that vaccinations after six months may be `good for life'.

Annual boosters for parvovirus and distemper are unnecessary, they say, and subject the animal to risk of allergic reactions and autoimmune disorders, immuno-suppression, infections and anaemia.

"Can we wonder the that clients are losing faith in vaccination and researching the issues for themselves?" they write. "We think they are right to do so.

"Politics, tradition or the economic well being of vets and pharmaceutical companies should not be a factor in making medical decisions."

They allege that promoting annual vaccination constitutes fraud and theft and recommend that booster vaccinations are given every three years.

The 31 vets, writing in the Veterinary Times, cite the American Veterinary Medical Association Committee's recent report which states that annual re-vaccination recommendations are based on "historical precedent, not scientific data".

"They say that there is no proof that yearly vaccinations are necessary, that protection may be life-long and that "re-vaccination of patients with sufficent immunity does not add measurably to their disease resistance and may increase their risk of adverse post-vaccination events."

A recent report by the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Tasksforce said that "no vaccine is always safe, no vaccine is always protective and no vaccine is always indicated.

"Misunderstanding, misinformation and the conservative nature of our profession have largely slowed adoption of protocols advocating decreased frequency of vaccination" the report reads.

"Immunological memory provides durations of immunity for core infectious diseases that far exceed the traditional recommendations for annual vaccination. This is supported by a growing body of veterinary information as well as well-developed epidemiological vigilance in human medicine that indicates immunity induced by vaccination is extremely long-lasting and, in most cases, life- long.

It says that evidence shows the duration of immunity for rabies, canine distemper and canine parvovirus vaccines, among others, is a minimum of 7 years.

The vets wrote: "We fully accept that no single achievement has had greater impact on the lives and well being of our patients, our clients and our ability to prevent infectious diseases than the developments in animal vaccines.

"However, we fully support the recommendations and guidelines ...... to reduce vaccine protocols for dogs and cats such that booster vaccinations are only given every three years and only for core vaccines unless otherwise scientifically justified".

"In the light of data now available showing the needless use and potential harm of annual vaccination we call on our profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination.

"It is accepted that the annual examination of a pet is advisable. We undervalue ourselves, however, if we hang this essential service on the back of vaccination and will ultimately suffer the consequences. Do we need to wait until we see actions against vets such as those launched in the state of Texas by Dr Rober Rogers? He asserts that the present practice of marketing vaccinations for companion animals constitutes fraud by silence and theft by deception.

"The oath we take as newly qualified vets is 'to help, or least do no harm'. We wish to maintain our position within society and be deserving of the trust placed in us as a profession. It is therefore our contention that those who continue to give annual vaccinations in the light of the new evidence may well be acting contrary to the welfare of the animals committed to their care."

The signatories are care of an address in Lodsworth, West Sussex.

This letter was welcomed by Catherine O'Driscoll, who through her group, Canine Health Concern, has been compaigning to end annual vaccinations for many years.

She said "We and others whose dogs have suffered vaccine reactions and whose beloved friends have died and suffered unnecessarily have been pilloried and castigated for speaking the truth for long enough now.

Time to take this letter to your vet and to post it to other vets in your neighbourhood: time to show this letter to all the dog lovers you meet in the park or at classes.

"Time to get the truth out there once and for all and time to stop our animals suffering. My respect and gratitude go to the courageous vets who signed the letter.

Sorry to hear youre sad story,unfortunatly some (and i stress SOME) vets either dont have sufficent knowledge or jus dont care about the animals they treat and just look forward to youre payments,on the subject of treatment and the use of boosters for dogs i found this site really infomative http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/.I,ve seen the dvd and believe me it,s an eye opener.I to lost my dog last new years eve(nothing to do with the vet i might add) but i know how heart wrenching it is at that time of year too.Once again sorry to hear of youre loss.

Paul

Fishpole; Applaud your patience in typing all that my friend.

Spoke to someone who used to work for the PDSA, she held a similar view on vets and had an interesting take on the RSPCA.
Drugs companies reap money. The industry is one of the largest and holds a lot of clout in politics and is perhaps the only reason why experiments are still carried out on live animals but that's a whole other story.
It's true that little action will be taken until such time as it is proven to have a detrimental affect on pets and that we simply fall into a pattern or routine of anual vaccinations. Practices have long since given up the caring attitude of the past despite the false smiles and niceties lavished upon us, not so far removed from Spanish/Greek waiters in their attempts to secure repeat business. I don't know for myself, yes there will be those who swear by it and try to convince us all that we have a moral duty to continue with the current 'trend' but it's scary to think that it might just be fear that keeps us doing it. As anyone of us can get ill at any time it seems unreasonable to subject something we love to an unknown factor simply in order to prevent the occurence of something else that has more chance of not occuring.

Sorry to hear youre sad story,unfortunatly some (and i stress SOME) vets either dont have sufficent knowledge or jus dont care about the animals they treat and just look forward to youre payments,on the subject of treatment and the use of boosters for dogs i found this site really infomative http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/.I,ve seen the dvd and believe me it,s an eye opener.I to lost my dog last new years eve(nothing to do with the vet i might add) but i know how heart wrenching it is at that time of year too.Once again sorry to hear of youre loss.

Paul

Interesting link, heavy going in places (haven't read it all yet) but as you say an eye opener. As for the pet food industry, well it should be common knowledge that tinned food is rubbish.
It's a tough call but as i've said already, you can't help but wonder if we've been manipulated in some way. It is crap to lose a friend, worse if its the cause of something that to all intents and purposes is designed to do the opposite. For each article singing the praises of something there will be others bringing it down. Ultimately the decision is ours but annually pumping drugs into your dog doesn't smack of common sense really.

Interesting link, heavy going in places

Some of seems to make sense though this statement made me laugh....

For example, hip dysplasia is thought to be genetic, but research shows that it can be avoided with proper diet and vitamin C supplementation.

Hip dysplasia has a very strong genetic link. It can't be avoided by food, they either have it or not.

In milder cases it can be made less debilitating and so that it does not cause pain by ensuring the muscles and ligaments that support the hip are strong... not quite sure what vitamin C has got to with it, and good diet, yes.

I would have a lot more respect for these types of sites if they ensured what they write is scientifically correct and not a lot of waffle with incorrect statements.

Some of seems to make sense though this statement made me laugh....



Hip dysplasia has a very strong genetic link. It can't be avoided by food, they either have it or not.

In milder cases it can be made less debilitating and so that it does not cause pain by ensuring the muscles and ligaments that support the hip are strong... not quite sure what vitamin C has got to with it, and good diet, yes.

I would have a lot more respect for these types of sites if they ensured what they write is scientifically correct and not a lot of waffle with incorrect statements.

Are they suggesting that diet might help in combatting the possibility of it in the future? (thought responsible breeding would do this anyway) but yeah I know what you mean. It would also help if they backed it up with the science rather than just feeding us bits, but i suppose the concensus is, if you want to know the facts, subscribe.
Vitamin C? have to check on that one.

My dog now 13? had them as a puppy, but not since, and hes been all over Europe.

he was unwell a little for a couple of days, must have caught a local dog bug, just a bit quiet, but then for the rest of the month away fine as normal.

lots of types of parvo, and even affects insects.

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm
Some interesting facts here. Looks like Vit C may have some impact on the soft tissues or pain relief within dogs therefore helping. Again though the evidence is sketchy and you can read into it what ever you like. No one seems to mention the mechanisms behind it working though or why it should work.

Dogs naturally synthesise vit C in the liver, which goes against the whole feeding raw idea (that the site also promotes) as technically they don't need excess vit C in their natural diet :lol:


Supplemental vitamin C has been clinically tested and proven to cause problems. One test conducted in 1980, by Teare et al., showed that supplemental vitamin C can aggravate skeletal disease induced by overfeeding protein, energy, and calcium to Labrador Retriever puppies. The test by Teare et al. is shown on page 38 in the US Government National Research Council's publication, Nutrient Requirements of Dogs - Revised 1985. That single NRC publication cites 24 test done with vitamin C and dogs. The 24 test were done to find out if dog food should contain any vitamin C. The conclusion the members of the National Research Council drew from all of those test was that dog food should not contain any vitamin C.

Feeding a dog vitamin C may have a negative affect on both the dog's liver and kidneys. Feeding vitamin C to a healthy dog can affect that dog's liver the same as feeding thyroid medication would affect the healthy dog's thyroid gland. It could shut the gland down. Any time we take over the function of a healthy gland with dietary supplements or medication, the gland slowly atrophies. The effect it has on the dog's kidneys is because most forms of vitamin C that are found in dog foods or supplements are not the same as the molecular form the dog is able to produce naturally. The different dietary forms of vitamin C like: Ascorbic Acid (in an "L" form), Sodium Ascorbate or Calcium Ascorbate are all synthetic water soluble forms. They end up in the dogs kidneys where they change the uric pH while waiting to be discharged from the dogs body. This change in the natural pH within the kidneys puts additional stress on them and can cause many problems.

The Morris Animal Foundation has released the findings of a survey determining the main causes of death for dogs in the United States. The second and sixth leading causes cited in that report were kidney disorders and liver failure. Supplemental vitamin C may not cause a dog to die as fast as a bullet from a gun or accidents (the #1 reason) but all indicators point to the fact that it does cause glandular problems which can lead to a dog's death. It works very slowly and can rob years from a pet's normal life span
http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html

again somone elses veiw on it but at least it refers to research abeit 10+ year out of date.

Dogs naturally synthesise vit C in the liver, which goes against the whole feeding raw idea (that the site also promotes) as technically they don't need excess vit C in their natural diet


....unless there was a related disease or situation that made it necessary to supplement, but no as part of a normal diet it would be a minimum requirement.
I guess the jury's out on this one but it will be interesting if more people adopt the attitude, to see the proffession squirm.

Sorry to hear about Zack Gaz :( I looked at your pics of him and remembered seeing them when they were taken :) He was a beautiful dog, and that expression on his face was full of fun!

I'm concerned about the amount of 'talk' about 'annual boosters' when for at least the last four years vets have not been giving annual everything injections. When you go for boosters your dog will be receiving specific vaccines a specific intervals, some annual, but some on a 3 or 5 year cycle. The article kindly typed out (which I suspect I read in a magazine such as Our Dogs originally) is a good few years old now, so was more than likely written prior to vaccine cycles being revised

I don't agree to any treatment for Brude until I've asked as many questions as I can muster, and am confident that I know what he's being subjected to

We abandoned Springfield as our vets when Mr Jarvis retired, following more than one unsatisfactory visit, and their out of hours arrangements had already forced me to look for alternative vets

Whilst I am very happy with Peak Vets, I don't hand Brude over to their complete care - and a recent visit proved that I was right not to do so. When we went for boosters I was asked for his card, which I hadn't brought in. The vet declared that he'd have to have he full set in that case, to which I tersely replied that THEY have his records, so will be able to find on the computer what he is or isn't due to have this visit. It turns out that it's next year all boosters coincide. Every other visit has been great though - with the vets being more than happy to fully discuss symptoms and problems properly with me

In millies vac book it just has the stickers on for each year.
Nothings been filled in to say which ones shes had. Also the first vet i had has put her primary/puppy vacs in the booster section .I remember years ago when mr Jarvis was at Firthpark he always put which vaccines the pet had .

Strix can you tell which vaccs they are by the colour codings on the stickers.

I'm concerned about the amount of 'talk' about 'annual boosters' when for at least the last four years vets have not been giving annual everything injections. When you go for boosters your dog will be receiving specific vaccines a specific intervals, some annual, but some on a 3 or 5 year cycle. The article kindly typed out (which I suspect I read in a magazine such as Our Dogs originally) is a good few years old now, so was more than likely written prior to vaccine cycles being revised

That's interesting Strix, if our dogs are receiving specific vaccines at specific intervals, on a cycle, wouldn't you expect it to be relayed to us, the clients? Why should anyone have to rely on typing up "old news", this is about vets being up front and honest isn't it? The vet in this particular case has failed the dog, in my opinion, the rest of the argument ie regularity of vaccination is just as valid. If you have information that the rest of us don't, perhaps you should share for the good of the animal.

My vet (Mr Jarvis at the time) took great care to explain that Brude would not be getting a full dose of vaccines the first year this came in, and explained exactly why

Kindly refrain from the cutting comments Fishpole. I have shared the information I have, but as it was relayed a number of years ago by mouth, I don't have it available to directly quote - perhaps google would provide you with further information if you are inclined to read up further on the matter

In Gaz's shoes I'd be making complaint to the RVC though - the side effects of the ongoing medication should have been noted by the vet (no mention seemed to have been made as to why antihistamines weren't used)

Tara - the best thing to do is ask your vet what the stickers on your vacc card relate to, or ask for a full print out of what's been administered :thumbsup:

My vet (Mr Jarvis at the time) took great care to explain that Brude would not be getting a full dose of vaccines the first year this came in, and explained exactly whyPerhaps it's personal information and I won't ask you to expand on it, for that reason.

Kindly refrain from the cutting comments Fishpole. I have shared the information I have, but as it was relayed a number of years ago by mouth, I don't have it available to directly quote - perhaps google would provide you with further information if you are inclined to read up further on the matter Can I really comment Strix? Actually yes! and the comments weren't cutting at all[/QUOTE]