Thought it would be nice to record our babies progress after Mrs Draggle gives birth in August.......
So after a bit of shopping around in Sheffield we decided to get a video cam that bit cheaper on ebay.
Found something suitable £262 inc. postage, next day delivery, on a 'Buy Now' - seller has 103 transactions, only one bad feedback over something trivial.

Paid by PayPal. So item didn't come, seller ignores my emails. Investigate further and it seems that in the narrow gap between us paying and the seller shipping, ebay have suspended him for selling non-approved items.
I expect he thinks he doesn't have to send the Item now :roll:

Checked his auctions, two other people bought the same Item on the same day. contacted them, no cams at there end, either.
OK, we can probably claim part of the money (but not all) from PayPal, but should this be submitted to the police as 'fraud?'

Oh no! :(

I'd report it straight away :mad:

i' too would report i've never bought owt off e-bay before so not sure how it works but will the cops be able to find out who he is??

Thanks, Strix -
Sent him an email today saying the three of us concerned would collectively report him to the fraud squad and asked him to contact us immediately.
Thought I would file a claim tomorrow..... do you reckon I should just get on with it now?

If you paid via paypal don't you get ALL your money back - Can you still report 'item not received' dispite his suspension!

You can always log on the ebay help pages ...some real ebay experts there (called the pinkies....:suspect: ) I am sure one of them will help!!

Let us know how you get on..:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Gingerbarf
i' too would report i've never bought owt off e-bay before so not sure how it works but will the cops be able to find out who he is??
His name, address and bank/credit card details should be lodged with PayPal

Originally posted by Shiesh
[B]If you paid via paypal don't you get ALL your money back -
Think you only get a percentage back, may be wrong.
Thanks for advice on the 'Pinkies' - will have a look :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Draggletail
Think you only get a percentage back, may be wrong.
Thanks for advice on the 'Pinkies' - will have a look :thumbsup:

When I claimed from paypal for non-delivery, I got ALL my money back. Just lodge a dispute at eBay and they will redirect you to paypal at the appropriate point. Should be self-managing from there.

Like you, I bought something (fortunately only a DVD, so not too expensive) from someone with excellent feedback. Between paying and lodging my complaint, he got 38 negative for non-delivery. Full refund within 3 days.

Originally posted by spiffymonkey
When I claimed from paypal for non-delivery, I got ALL my money back. Just lodge a dispute at eBay and they will redirect you to paypal at the appropriate point. Should be self-managing from there.

Like you, I bought something (fortunately only a DVD, so not too expensive) from someone with excellent feedback. Between paying and lodging my complaint, he got 38 negative for non-delivery. Full refund within 3 days.
Thanks spliffymonkey - just noticed 'resoloution centre' button at paypal and filed a complaint there, all pretty straightforward. Heres to a full refund, I hope. Will let you all know if It's not..... Never bought anything that expensive on ebay, probably won't again.

Originally posted by Draggletail
Thanks spliffymonkey - just noticed 'resoloution centre' button at paypal and filed a complaint there, all pretty straightforward. Heres to a full refund, I hope. Will let you all know if It's not..... Never bought anything that expensive on ebay, probably won't again.

Spliffymonkey? Blimey, that's a new one :hihi:

I've bought all sorts on eBay (including the laptop I am typing this on) and only ever had this problem once. It's still a generally good place to get stuff, but you do occassionally get nutters. That's why I never buy if I can't use PayPal, at least I have some come-back should it all go a bit pants.

Hi. I deal on eBay regularly, both as a buyer and seller. I've experienced similar problems in the past and there's always been reasons for the lack of response.

Perhaps the seller is on holiday. It's not a good excuse; he should have made the dates clear to prospective buyers. But, it is a possible reason. Or maybe the seller's PC is down.

On the other hand, if eBay have suspended him for dealing in prohibited goods, such as bootlegged DVDs or software, then the suspension will last for several weeks. The seller will not be able to communicate with outstanding buyers during this time, nor they with him. Suspending a seller who has auctions still in progress without cancelling those auctions and thus protecting prospective bidders is negligent of eBay, but it is typical. This seller has substantial positive feedback and is most likely a honest trader who has fallen foul of eBay or PayPal's complicated financial trading limits. When the seller is reinstated he will probably conclude his outstanding sales along with his apologies.

However, as you paid with PayPal you should be able to file for an immediate refund, as eBay who, incidentally, own PayPal have removed the seller. Go to PayPal.com and check their refund policy.

ie bought loads off ebay included a classic car with no probs.however i have just received anon working hdd and had no response from seller.

Originally posted by spartacus
[B]Hi. I deal on eBay regularly, both as a buyer and seller. I've experienced similar problems in the past and there's always been reasons for the lack of response.

Thanks... What you say is well written and true, but I also have been buying and selling on ebay (for about three years) I have good feedback (about 113) and could probably triple that if everyone left feedback. Basically, I have enough experience on ebay to know this one 'stinks'
In addition, I just got mailed from someone else I contacted through this guys 'history' link - they are also missing a £262 cam :(

Yeah thats right if you paid via paypal you should get all your money back, i did the same thing. If you report the item not received to paypal, then file a claim through paypal, they mediate it then after around 30 days you should get all your money back. did you make any contact with the sellar after you had paid and did they respond?

The trouble with ebay now is account hijacking is a lot more prevalent so people with good feedback might not be who they seem. This is often what happened when good sellers suddenly turn bad and then get banned. It happens so often because too many people fall for the phishing emails.

Originally posted by EldonEng
......... did you make any contact with the sellar after you had paid and did they respond? [/B]
I mailed the seller three times but got no response

Hi, Dragontail. I see your point. And yes, your feedback score indicates you're an experienced eBayer.

It's interesting, isn't it, how our intuition tell us things about situations and people, even when we're dealing with them from a distance. I hope you get a positive result on this one. For the benefit of other Forum members who might be thinking of shopping on eBay, I will describe what I think will happen. If any other members know better, please feel free to correct me.

PayPal should refund you in full, with no commission deducted, whether your PayPal account is "address confirmed" or otherwise. They will claw back the money from the seller's PayPal account. If the seller hasn't enough funds in his PayPal account, they will take the money from the bank or credit card account he declared when he signed up for PayPal. In addition, PayPal will charge him a considerable fee for this.

However, if he's truly a 'rogue trader' rather than just a wayward one he might have closed all these accounts in the meantime. What to do then? I don't know. I fear that legal action might then be your only recourse.

Originally posted by spartacus
PayPal should refund you in full, with no commission deducted, whether your PayPal account is "address confirmed" or otherwise. They will claw back the money from the seller's PayPal account. If the seller hasn't enough funds in his PayPal account, they will take the money from the bank or credit card account he declared when he signed up for PayPalIn addition, PayPal will charge him a considerable fee for this.
However, if he's truly a 'rogue trader' rather than just a wayward one he might have closed all these accounts in the meantime. What to do then? I don't know. I fear that legal action might then be your only recourse.


Didn't realise paypals 'Guarantee' only extended to the funds being available from the seller, though.
They aren't prepared to cover the costs themselves, then? Grrrrr
I have just checked the status of my claim at the paypal resolution centre, it seems that the seller has ten days to respond to my allegation. This means he has plenty of time to clear his accounts of money/cancel his registered credit card, to avoid repayment to myself, as you point out above.

Yes, Dragontail, that's a good question. If a rogue seller closes all his/her accounts and PayPal has no way to claw back the refund, do they refund you themselves?

I'm off to the PayPal site and eBay's community site to do some research on this one. I'll let you know.

Well, Dragontail, from what I can glean it seems Paypal won't leave itself out of pocket under any circumstances. Let's hope the guy is a seller that has strayed off the eBay path and after his suspension sorts himself and his customers out.

If you want to read more about PayPal horror stories, then click on this link: www.paypalsucks.com

I've been here and done this myself... if they've emptied their paypal account then paypal wont cough up a penny, they'll just suspend their account until they respond to paypal... like they're going to do that if they owe £1000? lol

if things fail with paypal you can get in touch with ebay... but they take £15 from the cost for admin fees, only payout for the item price NOT including postage... and it takes about 2 months altogether including either a letter or fax to germany!

good luck!

Originally posted by xafier
if things fail with paypal you can get in touch with ebay... but they take £15 from the cost for admin fees, only payout for the item price NOT including postage... and it takes about 2 months altogether including either a letter or fax to germany!

good luck! [/B]
Do you know if ebay refund the full amount, xafier? I am in touch with one of the other buyers, and she seems to think they will only refund £160 of the £262.

She has managed to get the sellers details off ebay, but he is not answering the phone.
I didn't know you could do this - you click the 'empty' search box top left of the screen and get an option to 'find contact information' which includes registered name (not the same as the one he gave me) County, City and phone number. Might be useful for someone, someday....

Yes I knew you could do that as I phoned a non-paying bidder a few months ago over an item I had listed and she had won to see if she still wanted it rather than just post her a negative feedback.

I had put in my listing that I required payment within 7 days of auction ending and had waited 2 weeks and she hadn't responded to emails I sent etc.

I thought it was the right thing to do rather than just post her a negative feedback...but she was very nasty on the phone as objected to me calling her at home etc and she posted me a negative for calling her....even though it was HER who hadn't paid!!!:rant:

Wish I'd never bothered....

Anyway what I wanted to say was the person ALSO gets an email from ebay advising them they details have been given out so HE will be expecting the call no doubt....

:(

Originally posted by Shiesh
Anyway what I wanted to say was the person ALSO gets an email from ebay advising them they details have been given out so HE will be expecting the call no doubt....
:(
:suspect: Grrrrrrr: :suspect:

Originally posted by Draggletail
Do you know if ebay refund the full amount, xafier? I am in touch with one of the other buyers, and she seems to think they will only refund £160 of the £262.

check out this link:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html

If the buyer closes the dispute with this option and the transaction is eligible, then the buyer may file a claim under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program, where they may be reimbursed up to £120.00 (minus a £15.00 processing cost).Additionally, if the eBay Trust and Safety team believes further action is warranted, the seller's account may be restricted or suspended.

as I've said quite a lot of times since I had trouble on ebay... both paypal and ebay make out like if anything goes wrong your totally covered... but actually paypal SUCK because you will only get your money back if the person hasn't already spent it or transfered it somewhere else... and ebay will take forever and a day to sort things and take a big cut of the money!

Thanks Xavier :thumbsup:

So I could file an ebay claim and get back £105 (£15 fee deducted) and a paypal claim with the possibility of getting the full original amount back? Hang on - there is potential to make a profit here :confused:

Originally posted by Draggletail
Thanks Xavier :thumbsup:

So I could file an ebay claim and get back £105 (£15 fee deducted) and a paypal claim with the possibility of getting the full original amount back? Hang on - there is potential to make a profit here :confused:

alas no, ebay OWN paypal, so they know if you have a claim filed... and ebay only accept claims where you've tried every possible thing first, including filing a claim with paypal...

go with paypal first... then if they dont resolve the matter, go to ebay... and seen as your item cost so much ebay will reclaim £120... £260 - 15 = 245... so you get the max claim... so yet again you'll be another person like me that will be royally ****** at how poor their system is!

Paypal have the credit card details and bank details of everyone that signs up... how can they NOT be able to trace and get your money back?

Oh lucky me, I have a reply from the seller:

I am having real problems with Pay Pal. They have restricted my funds due to the fact that I have gone over my £4500 limit that the EU stipulates, this is a limit I was un aware of and resolving it has and continues to take up all my time.. Please request a full refund and they will isuue it to you.

I can not complete the transaction due to the fact that all my funds for purchasing are tied up and they wont release until my bank contacts them direct with a business guarentee, I inform them of all my suppliers and I prove that I have posted all my goods to my last 10 buyers, this is a joke. I am a one man band trading via ebay and uptill last week had a 99% feedback and over 100 happy customers. I buy the goods with the money from the auctions, that is why I say goods will be dispatched within 48hrs of funds clearing MY account. I sell to buy.....as does a massive amount of sellers.

I understand your frustation, I have had my whole business disrupted due to this and I am seeking legal action against the Ebay Group.

Sorry but I see no way in which this sale can continue. Oh and by the way, if you contact the fraud squad (yawn yawn) then tell them to start by looking at Pay Pal and Ebay because the way that these big companies think that they can control us smaller companies is a joke. I have lost over £10,000 worth of sales in the past week and they are holding over £3000 of my money. I am going to persue this in its entirety.

Thank you and im sorry for the lack of contact, it was in no way intentional. Forward this to whoever you want..im getting through the rest of the current buyers bit by bit.
I'm so glad he understands my frustration :roll: I'm self employed, too. I can almost feel for him :suspect:

sorry to bring this back from so long ago, but any news, cos i had just been done on £210

paid via paypal (using debit card)

the guy did a runner (suspended acount ) . no contact details whatsoever.

Originally posted by wwp8
sorry to bring this back from so long ago, but any news, cos i had just been done on £210

paid via paypal (using debit card)

the guy did a runner (suspended account ) . no contact details whatsoever.
We actually did get our money back via paypal....... but only because they saw reason to 'freeze' the sellers account and withhold his funds.

If he had no funds to freeze, paypal would not have refunded us - ie paypal will not refund from their own purse....

Originally posted by wwp8
sorry to bring this back from so long ago, but any news, cos i had just been done on £210

paid via paypal (using debit card)

the guy did a runner (suspended acount ) . no contact details whatsoever.

Always use a credit card if you can. That way you aren't spending your own money (until you pay the bill) and if anything goes wrong, Visa/Mastercard will take it up on your behalf. I never use a debit card because that's taking money directly out of my bank account.

looks like i'm in the crapper then, he obviously done these things to scam people, he MUST have taken all his money out

I've seen recently that Paypal do pay up (maybe not the full amount, but a large percentage), as they are insured against this sort of thing. You have to put in a claim within a limited amount of time though, and I'm not sure what that is.

Report it to the police, contact e-Bay, and put a claim in to Paypal ~ you've got nothing to lose by doing that, after all!

Paypal do not 'Pay up' as such, rather re-inforce what eBay's policy says. Ie. If you paid by Paypal and did not receive any goods, you no longer have to wait the 3-12 months that eBay's standard protection takes, they will refund you the <£105 (£120 max. eBay claim - £15 admin).

Originally posted by Ann_x
I've seen recently that Paypal do pay up (maybe not the full amount, but a large percentage), as they are insured against this sort of thing. You have to put in a claim within a limited amount of time though, and I'm not sure what that is.

Report it to the police, contact e-Bay, and put a claim in to Paypal ~ you've got nothing to lose by doing that, after all!

My mum bought a video camera on Ebay, with free cassettes and everything.
The camera was fine but she put the cassettes in and they were already used, it had men getting stoned in their car! And a man saying how he was sick of life and how messed up everything is, looked like a suicide message or something, well scary!

Originally posted by Gingerbarf
i' too would report i've never bought owt off e-bay before so not sure how it works but will the cops be able to find out who he is?? the police will find out who he is through e bay,it happened to me a while ago, the seller said i had received goods without payment and the police contacted me

i had saved the receipts and the letters from the post office saying they were trying to trace the postal order so the police thanked me,apologised and now its in the hands of the post office team at chesterfield

Gutted for you mate, hope you get your dosh back :(

I hate Ebay.

I was going to buy a Trans-Am for £3500, the guy said it only needed some minor cosmetics. After a phone call and emails of pictures etc. He told me it'd had no welding. So I was still curious so I arranged a viewing.

Following a day off work I travelled to Oxford with a mate to view it and man I tell you he'd have had to pay me to take it away. On viewing he then admitted he'd had some welding done for MOT. I said how much did you then pay the guy to give you a "MOT Certificate", he never answered. I said its held together with rust, it was probablly unsaveable even by those guys on Overhalling on one of Sky's channels.

The guy had the cheek to ask me to still give him some good feedback, I said do you realise how much time of mine you've wasted as well as money!!!

I've spoke to a few guys on the American Car scene who've encountered the same troubles as this, but some have ended in fisti-cuffs. Some of the journeys had included plane travel from London to Scotland, so I could understand the bitterness :hihi:

I'm currently reading a book which details all the major internet scams at the moment - oh dear oh dear

you can get his address from logging into your ebay account and clicking a few things (cant remember what). Then get your petrol paid for and borrow a couple of big mates and go get your money back.

True it could be false details..but that usually is a lot of messing around and they don't expect anyone knocking on their door.

Might be worth it as an option.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

^ this site will put you off ebay/paypal for life

MTheo, you rock - thanks for the link :thumbsup:

I have suffered at the hands of Paypal for ages - they've frozen my account for almost 7 months, giving me hoop upon hoop to jump through.

Do you know that their user agreement says (I'm paraphrasing, but it's true): "Paypal has the right to ask users to do anything that is NOT YET in their user agreement AT ITS OWN DISCRETION."

[Later today, I will put up their exact wording, but it is similar - and an operator had the audacity to quote it to me, as reason they were not going to unfreeze my account (as opposed to the specific section I had asked to see)!]

I just had enough and decided I'd never see my £300+ they've kept for so long; but now, I'm going to seek legal advice about it. Wish me luck...

Originally posted by MTheo
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

^ this site will put you off ebay/paypal for life

Originally posted by stars_gazing
MTheo, you rock - thanks for the link :thumbsup:

I have suffered at the hands of Paypal for ages - they've frozen my account for almost 7 months, giving me hoop upon hoop to jump through.

Do you know that their user agreement says (I'm paraphrasing, but it's true): "Paypal has the right to ask users to do anything that is NOT YET in their user agreement AT ITS OWN DISCRETION."

[Later today, I will put up their exact wording, but it is similar - and an operator had the audacity to quote it to me, as reason they were not going to unfreeze my account (as opposed to the specific section I had asked to see)!]

I just had enough and decided I'd never see my £300+ they've kept for so long; but now, I'm going to seek legal advice about it. Wish me luck...

:clap: i DO rock!.. get to the grapes 2morrow to see :P

hope you get it sorted out.... i've not had any problems with paypal and continue to use it....but it's the luck of the draw i guess.

Taken from Paypal's user agreement:

7.3 Closing Accounts and Limitation of Account Access. At our sole discretion we may close an account at any time where expedient to do so, (including but not limited to where there has been a breach by you of this Agreement) upon notice to you and make payment to you of any unrestricted funds held in your account. We also reserve the right to limit access to an account and any or all of the account's functions, including but not limited to your ability to send e-money or your ability to withdraw from the account. Such restrictions shall only apply to such portion of your balance as directly relates to your breach or attempted breach of your obligations.

ie. They can quote this at anytime and it covers them closing your account for whatever they wish.

Originally posted by march
The trouble with ebay now is account hijacking is a lot more prevalent so people with good feedback might not be who they seem. This is often what happened when good sellers suddenly turn bad and then get banned. It happens so often because too many people fall for the phishing emails.

this happened to me, dont be too harsh on the seller just yet.
good sellers dont usually change habits over night & the instant rip offs should be a giveaway.
report everything to ebay & paypal,unless he has cleared out his account payapl should reimburse you, if you paid by crdit card via paypal your credit company should refund.

Originally posted by MTheo
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

^ this site will put you off ebay/paypal for life

Don't let it put you off buying online though because it is still where the best deals are.

Why not try haggle4me (http://www.haggle4me.com) to find what you want cheaper. The site doesn't actually sell any goods itself and isn't a comparison shopping site either. The site is basically a "wealth preservation society" where you list what you are looking for and other users (real people!) compete to find what you want the cheapest in return for a 20% share of any saving they find you. It costs nothing to list an item so you can only save money.

Payments between users is managed through the website (NO PAYPAL!l!) and occurs automatically at the end of a listing. You then get 3 days to check the info you have been provided with is good i.e. the price is right, it's the correct item etc, etc before any money is transferred to the winning "Haggler". If there is a problem then there is a clear refund policy and procedure to follow so the Haggler can't give you a load of duff info and then run off with your money!

The website also provides useful info about how to shop safely online (http://www.haggle4me.com/help/guides/safeshopping.html) and provides links to several government bodies providing similar information. If you carry out just a few checks before buying online it is very safe indeed as well as being the cheapest and most convenient way to buy.

Check it out... the website owners live in Sheffield and I hear they are really great guys and occasionally use SF too! ; )

hi

if you paid this money via paypal, you will get the full amount back if you file a complaint, you'll need ebay ref numbers etc.

went to see pc plod(not real name) incase he's reading this

and i have ben told to wait cos it was xmas post!!!!!!!

give them another week they say.


i told them the bit where the feedbacks hes got was actually his 2nd account, but was told he probably wanted to build it up quick to get some good reps.


long story short, (they can't really help)