Gonna be a bit controversial now cause I'm bored...

It has occured to me that there are some bad bad men in the world. There are bad women too, but not as many, or so it would seem. The majority of rapists are men, the majority of pheadophiles are men and the majority of domestic abusers are men.

And how many dumb-f**k male politicians and world leaders are busy ruining the world for everyone else by trying to blow up other countries?!!!!

Most of the really really bad nasty people in history have been men too.

Now, I definitely don't want this thread to become a man-bashing post, no bitching please.

But a few serious questions...

Do all the nice blokes out there feel that bad boys given men a bad rep?
Do we think theres a genetic or social reason for 'bad man' syndrome?
And can you think of many really nasty women to throw into the boiling pot? The one that sprung to mind for me was the Black Widow who killed all those Russian kids last year.

Over to you guys.... Remember, no OTT man-bashing, this is a seious thread!

myra hindley,lucresia borgia,margeret thatcher, that might start it off for you :roll:

Originally posted by depoix
myra hindley,lucresia borgia,margeret thatcher, that might start it off for you :roll:

Yeah, good ones! Had forgotton about Borgia. Not sure about Thatcher though - she's hardly on par with Hilter or Bin Laden is she?

women are not genetically disposed to be nicer, it is just a result of society that men are in all the positions of responsibility.

it is power that corrupts people.

It is also very hard to rape a man

And think about it, if the worlds politicians were all female it would be fine most of the month, then BAM nuclear war!

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
It is also very hard to rape a man


Why is it ?

Originally posted by JBee
Yeah, good ones! Had forgotton about Borgia. Not sure about Thatcher though - she's hardly on par with Hilter or Bin Laden is she? ask an ex miner or ex steel worker or trawler man i think they may just say that she was worse than any other dictator in history

I can see what you mean, but dont they say that behind every bad man is a woman? :P

Men are generally bigger and stronger and I also feel that men are generally more sexual. Put that in a bad man and then you get rape etc.

As for women, i think the term bitchiness comes to mind and i'd guess this is where women use their power????? :confused: (maybe, maybe not)

Leading on from Carl, if it was only women in power can you guess what would happen if two opposing countries leaders wore the same dress?? :D:

Originally posted by nick2
Why is it ?

It's perfectly possible for a man to rape another man. But it would be pretty tricky for a woman to rape a man. Lack of the necessary appendage! Unless you spiked his drink with viagra I suppose!

Originally posted by youwhatref
Leading on from Carl, if it was only women in power can you guess what would happen if two opposing countries leaders wore the same dress?? :D:

Or one said the other was fat, WW3 !

Originally posted by depoix
ask an ex miner or ex steel worker or trawler man i think they may just say that she was worse than any other dictator in history

Oh yeah, taking on the unions that where crippling the country with their demands is much worse than killing thousands of innocent people at once (Sept 11th) .... The youngest being 2 years old!

I daresay that if women were in a position to excercise the same level of personal and political 'power' (or physical strength) as men there probably wouldn't be as much of a perceived difference.

I think men are probably programmed to be more competitive in evolutionary terms.

In terms of 'evil', about 90% of serial killers are men, but you can find women who are 'evil' as well. Mary Bell, the women in the Manson Family, Eileen Wournoss (sp?). You also get the 'fellow travellers' of evil like Maxine Carr.

Joe

Originally posted by serapis
Oh yeah, taking on the unions that where crippling the country with their demands is much worse than killing thousands of innocent people at once (Sept 11th) .... The youngest being 2 years old! what about the kids of the workmen who were thrown from a decent home life into unemployment benefit status,some where even made homeless and of course, maggie did steal their school milk allowance as her first political move

Originally posted by JBee
The majority of domestic abusers are men.

Not according to many police reviews! Apparently husband beating is more prevelent then wife beating but due to cultural mores not reported - think about it - how many men do you know who have been struck by a woman compared with how many men do you know who have struck a woman?

Originally posted by JBee
Not sure about Thatcher though - she's hardly on par with Hilter or Bin Laden is she?

Hitler or Bin Laden?? why not Bush & Blair?:confused:

Originally posted by depoix
what about the kids of the workmen who were thrown from a decent home life into unemployment benefit status,some where even made homeless and of course, maggie did steal their school milk allowance as her first political move

Are they alive?

Originally posted by evildrneil ...how many men do you know who have been struck by a woman compared with how many men do you know who have been struck by a woman? [/B]

er :confused: :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by serapis
Are they alive? dont know about the kids but recall there were several suicides, at least one related murder,numerouse family break ups and divorces and i think this is becoming a maggie defence thread instead of the original topic so may i suggest you open i love maggie some place else ..thank you

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
And think about it, if the worlds politicians were all female it would be fine most of the month, then BAM nuclear war!

Originally posted by Nick2
Or one said the other was fat, WW3 !

Priceless ! absolutely priceless!!!:D

it would be ok though on the surface - they would all smile and get along and then once they got back to their own cabinets - they'd bitch bitch bitch and THEN press the big red button
:hihi:

Originally posted by serapis
er :confused: :confused: :confused:

Oooops that should have read:

Not according to many police reviews! Apparently husband beating is more prevelent then wife beating but due to cultural mores not reported - think about it - how many men do you know who have been struck by a woman compared with how many men do you know who have struck a woman?

It's about social norms as well though.

We just did a study on aggression and sex differences and found women were actually just as aggressive as males, just in different, more socially acceptable ways. People don't think of it as aggression, but things like gossiping and spreading rumours can really hurt a person. We argued women have learnt ways to express their aggression appropriately, which is reinforced in young children.

As for serial killers, many of them are suffering from personality disorders far more common in men than women. Anti social personality disorder is the most common. As to why these are more common in men nobody yet really knows though. ASPD is a research area that is booming at the moment though so the psychology journals should be filled with stuff about it in the next few years.

Originally posted by depoix
dont know about the kids but recall there were several suicides, at least one related murder,numerouse family break ups and divorces and i think this is becoming a maggie defence thread instead of the original topic so may i suggest you open i love maggie some place else ..thank you

This isn't about "loving Maggie" more your opinion, which can’t be any more wrong in my view of who is the worst person.

On the one hand you have Margaret Thatcher, who, took away your free milk, and caused a lot of damage to the communities here in the north. All be it in the interest of the country (in her view)

On the other you have an advocate of religious genocide who has for many years attempted to start a holy war against the west. He has financed many terrorist attacks killing thousands of innocent people, including children, all because he has a twisted view of a religion that no more than a handful of people accept!

Get it right mate and take a step back. How can you suggest Maggie, warts and all is anything like Osama Bin Laden, escapes me!

... Thank You!

BAD MEN??? GET A LIFE!! WHAT ABOUT WOMEN AND PMT?? HEALTHWARNING SHOULD READ, BE AFRAID VERY AFRAID!
I never argue with a woman, why?? i dont have the strenth, and i want to live, and apart from that they say i cant!:heyhey:

Originally posted by evildrneil
Oooops that should have read:

Sorry for being picky, but I read it about 5 times wondering if I was missing something or had somehow contracted "Dysli".... no ... "Disyke".... no .... "Disect".... Bad Spelling :D

Originally posted by evildrneil
... Apparently husband beating is more prevelent then wife beating but due to cultural mores not reported - ...

I don't get this Niel.

If it's not reported, how do they know it's more prevelant ?

Originally posted by serapis
This isn't about "loving Maggie" more your opinion, which can’t be any more wrong in my view of who is the worst person.

On the one hand you have Margaret Thatcher, who, took away your free milk, and caused a lot of damage to the communities here in the north. All be it in the interest of the country (in her view)

On the other you have an advocate of religious genocide who has for many years attempted to start a holy war against the west. He has financed many terrorist attacks killing thousands of innocent people, including children, all because he has a twisted view of a religion that no more than a handful of people accept!

Get it right mate and take a step back. How can you suggest Maggie, warts and all is anything like Osama Bin Laden, escapes me!

... Thank You! jbee,s original thread read quote"and can you think of many really nasty women to throw into the boiling pot" unquote, hence, maggie thatcher sprang straight to mind ,as an ordinary sheffield working class man i judge her to be one of the most evil women in history for what she did to sheffield and other comunities, thank you

Originally posted by evildrneil
Not according to many police reviews! Apparently husband beating is more prevelent then wife beating but due to cultural mores not reported - think about it - how many men do you know who have been struck by a woman compared with how many men do you know who have struck a woman?

I have heard you say - Sorry :) I have seen you write! this before evildrneil. I'm really interested in it, as I'd like to be able to confirm whether thats true or not. Do you know of any studies about it that I could read?

My darling ex-Mrs Snooty once threw a teapot at me, but it missed. To be fair, I had just thrown a teapot at her. I also missed. I threw a pink teapot, which was a gift to us from her mother. She threw a brown teapot, which was a gift to us from my mother.

This reminds me of the old joke, ' I used to miss my ex wife/husband, but I'm a much better shot now'.

Originally posted by depoix
jbee,s original thread read quote"and can you think of many really nasty women to throw into the boiling pot" unquote, hence, maggie thatcher sprang straight to mind ,as an ordinary sheffield working class man i judge her to be one of the most evil women in history for what she did to sheffield and other comunities, thank you

Oh come on, get a grip! Look up the word "evil". Also realise that it was her "evil" leadership that dragged this country out of the doom of the 70s and turned it back into a great country once again. She made necessary reform to industries, which carried collateral damage at the time, but the legacy is enjoyed by the whole country today. Even the leader of the Labour party holds her in high esteem. To compare her with Osama Bin Laden and describe her as "evil" seems to me like you have no sense of perspective or reality whatsoever.

I broke my ex-boyfriends nose with my umbrella back in 1989!!

He went to work the next day in agony but hid it until he could pretend he had tripped over some wood which had been left in an aisle and smashed his face etc etc

He actually made a successful employers liability claim for approx £2k and took his new girlfriend to Cyprus for 2 weeks....huff!!

:rant:

However, the 2001/02 British Crime Survey (BCS) found 19% of domestic violence incidents were reported to be male victims with just under half of these being committed by a female abuser. source http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/hh/men.shtml

Male Victims of Domestic Violence
By David Gadd , Stephen Farrall, Damian Dallimore, and Nancy Lombard http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/cr/Gadd/Male%20Victims%20of%20Domestic%20Violence2.rtf you might find this interesting and its not very long.

you can also read the british crime survey although be warned its quite lengthy... http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/

If Maggie was so evil, how did she manage to remain PM for so long. Somebody must have voted for her, or was it only southerners?

Originally posted by onedizzybird
However, the 2001/02 British Crime Survey (BCS) found 19% of domestic violence incidents were reported to be male victims with just under half of these being committed by a female abuser. source http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/hh/men.shtml*snip*

so under 10% of domestic violence incidents are committed by females? hmmmmm - hardly "more prevalent" evildrneil :rolleyes:

Originally posted by rubydazzler
so under 10% of domestic violence incidents are committed by females? hmmmmm - hardly "more prevalent" evildrneil :rolleyes: Possibly, but not necessarily. Two reasons.

First, it deals only with reported cases, and a proportion of men (the actual percentage I admit I have no measure of) will not report it when they are assaulted by a woman, out of some strange sense of pride.

Second, the figures only refer to incidents where men are the victims. What about female-on-female incidents?

Originally posted by RichD
Possibly, but not necessarily. Two reasons.
First, it deals only with reported cases, and a proportion of men (the actual percentage I admit I have no measure of) will not report it when they are assaulted by a woman, out of some strange sense of pride.
Second, the figures only refer to incidents where men are the victims. What about female-on-female incidents?

I'm sure you can find the statistics in the same place other people have found the ones they've posted.

It's always difficult in these sorts of discussions to make a balanced judgment on the bare facts. For a start, most of the reported cases of male/female domestic violence often go unreported too, until it gets to the stage of actual hospitalisation of the victim. Women have a "strange sense of pride" too, you know. They don't want to admit to judgmental family, friends and strangers that their husband turns into a violent maniac at times and beats them senseless, often in front of their young children. And the women let them off time and again, but it seems that the violence escalates the more they are allowed to get away with it.

Most of the time, it's only when the woman is almost killed that these cases come to light. I don't think that there are that many women that beat their husbands to a pulp, maybe a punch in the mouth or even hitting them with something, scratching, biting or kicking - but I honestly can't remember a case where a woman has beaten a man to death?

Originally posted by Shiesh
I broke my ex-boyfriends nose with my umbrella back in 1989!!

imagine if a bloke had written that about his wife ' i broke my Ex Wifes nose...'

puts a totally different slant on it - they'd be an uproar

statistically & supported by goodness knows how many films,books etc white males between 25 & 40 are most likely to be perpetrators of heinous crimes.
the number of female mass murderers or serial killers is rare in comparison.
however the number of serious male offenders who have often lived submissive or abusive lives at the hands of strong women.(i'm not using it as an excuse just an observation) or without a male/father figure is extremely high.
it could just be coincidence that most men use their power or strength to be assertive over their vicitms & could be trying to re-assert themselves on society by gaining notoriety.
my opinion of domestic violence to men resembles how it was for women once upon a time. the police viewed it as being of little importance & was part of "domestic" life.these days they would not believe that a 15 stone man could be slapped around by a physically inferior "other half" and would give little or no credence or sympathy.

Talking about domestic violence did anyone see the drama on TV last week with Robson Green. It started with him hitting his wife and leaving . It wasn't until later as the programme showed events leading up to it you realised that he had suffered years of extremely violent abuse until he finally cracked and hit back.

She had attacked him with an iron bar. At the end of the programme after he refused to go back to her she hit him over the head with a pan and he fell to the floor with blood pouring from him, it was quite shocking and made very well leading you to presume at first he was the violent one when infact it was the complete opposite!

Any program which features Robson Green getting hit over the head by a pan is fine by me. I seems only fair that 'Jerome' should get booted in the groin as well though. Perhaps it could be arranged for next year's 'Children In Need'?

Originally posted by depoix
ask an ex miner or ex steel worker or trawler man i think they may just say that she was worse than any other dictator in history As an ex steel worker in the north east,I totally agree.Thatcher and her government caused an awful lot of misery.:mad:

Originally posted by rubydazzler
I'm sure you can find the statistics in the same place other people have found the ones they've posted.

It's always difficult in these sorts of discussions to make a balanced judgment on the bare facts. For a start, most of the reported cases of male/female domestic violence often go unreported too, until it gets to the stage of actual hospitalisation of the victim. Women have a "strange sense of pride" too, you know. They don't want to admit to judgmental family, friends and strangers that their husband turns into a violent maniac at times and beats them senseless, often in front of their young children. And the women let them off time and again, but it seems that the violence escalates the more they are allowed to get away with it.
Believe me, I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just that the specific article which had been quoted by Onedizzybird was incomplete as a source. I agree that women would also want to deny to family and friends (and to themselves) that such beatings were occurring. What I can't understand at all though is why they allow it to continue. I know that if I ever hit my girlfriend she would leave me and never take me back.

But some of these women (and I do stress 'some') suffering domestic violence go back for more again and again. I used to work in a police station, typing up witness statements, and would feel sick to my stomach when I would have to type up a detailed report from a woman who had been beaten to a pulp by her 'boyfriend', only to then have to type up a following statement reading "I wish to withdraw my statement of <day/month/year>". What motivates these people to willingly subject themselves to more of this abuse?

I know some women do not willingly go back to their partners after such abuse - I just wish more would follow their example.

Originally posted by Bedhead
imagine if a bloke had written that about his wife ' i broke my Ex Wifes nose...'

puts a totally different slant on it - they'd be an uproar

So maybe I should re-phrase it as I broke his nose after he 'spat' in my face....does that sound better now...

I now have a relationship where after 14 years the nearest thing to violence has been a door getting slammed!!

But this previous relationship was particular volatile however it was my ex-partner who was unable to control his temper and this resulted in physical exchanges etc

Originally posted by RichD
Possibly, but not necessarily. Two reasons.

First, it deals only with reported cases, and a proportion of men (the actual percentage I admit I have no measure of) will not report it when they are assaulted by a woman, out of some strange sense of pride.



many crimes go unreported and crime statistics can never be an accurate reflection upon the numerical level of such an occurance. the article contained in the link is an accademic one from the department of criminology at keele university.

the statistics themselves are from the british crime survey and although it has its flaws, it is considered to be a more reliable source than the police statistics. this is because the figures based in the results are not dependant upon people reporting crimes, it therefore records unreported crimes and reasons for non reportage. the survey itself takes a sample of the population and conducts doorstep interviews. obviously this is flawed in the sense that you are still dependant upon the person telling you about the incident. there are many reasons for people not admitting to domestic violence rangeing from pride, fear, children being in earshot, to denial or feeling to be the one at fault.

sorry, just re read the posts here is a more complete link to the statistics you'll be able to navigate to more specific areas from there http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/crimeew0304.html

anyhow to get back on track has anyone mentioned rosemary west yet?

Originally posted by buck
If Maggie was so evil, how did she manage to remain PM for so long. Somebody must have voted for her, or was it only southerners? hi buck,well the first time was because of the women who voted for her,not the party,just the fact that a woman was standing for prime minister,secondly she was failing badly until the falklands war cropped up,a war that could have been avoided by diplomacy but she grassped the chance to appear as a female winston churchill, this caused her second election, she was later replaced.

Originally posted by depoix
hi buck,well the first time was because of the women who voted for her,not the party,just the fact that a woman was standing for prime minister,secondly she was failing badly until the falklands war cropped up,a war that could have been avoided by diplomacy but she grassped the chance to appear as a female winston churchill, this caused her second election, she was later replaced.

....after winning a 3rd election and leaving the legacy of Britain being the 4th largest economy in the world thanks to her reforms (it was 17th when she inherited it from Old Labour in 79).

Originally posted by LoopyLou
Priceless ! absolutely priceless!!!:D

it would be ok though on the surface - they would all smile and get along and then once they got back to their own cabinets - they'd bitch bitch bitch and THEN press the big red button
:hihi:

and their cabinets would be full of underwear, shoes, dresses and handbags.:D

Originally posted by RichD
What I can't understand at all though is why they allow it to continue. I know that if I ever hit my girlfriend she would leave me and never take me back.

But some of these women (and I do stress 'some') suffering domestic violence go back for more again and again. I used to work in a police station, typing up witness statements, and would feel sick to my stomach when I would have to type up a detailed report from a woman who had been beaten to a pulp by her 'boyfriend', only to then have to type up a following statement reading "I wish to withdraw my statement of <day/month/year>". What motivates these people to willingly subject themselves to more of this abuse?

I know some women do not willingly go back to their partners after such abuse - I just wish more would follow their example.

Some short answers Rich:
: Economic power rests with the man.
: The woman usually has to leave the home, taking the kids with her - thus disrupting their schooling & friendships. She also severs her links with family, neighbours and friends. She is thus isolated and vulnerable to returning home.
: Women become so psychologically downtrodden that some actually believe that the beatings they receive are deserved because they have failed their man in some way.
: Because women do not know about support agencies and alternatives.
: But most of all, the man cries, apologies, says he will change and pleads for her to return. She believes him, and for the sake of the kids, withdraws the statement, and returns. Unless the man undertakes counselling, or anger management, he does not change his ways, and eventually resorts to further physical violence and verbal intimidation all over again.
: The woman is trapped for any and sometimes most of these reasons.

Read Erin Pizzey "Scream Quitely Or The Neighbours Will Hear" for further information.

After many years of campainging, the law has now been changed. Police can no longer discount witness statements from women who have suffered domestic violence - even if the woman requests to withdraw her statement.

Drevilneil. You are perpetuating an urban myth regarding men being substantial victims of domestic violence. It does happen, but is fairly rare. We are not talking about nagging housewives intimidating their husbands; we are talking about violence.

In over 30 years experience in the field of domestic violence, I have assisted hundreds of women, and only 2 men. And in one of those cases, the woman struck her husband on the head with a spade whilst he was asleep in bed - having finally snapped after years of suffering violence at his hands.

Would you say that men are naturally "bad (or worse) people", or is it their upbringing and role in society that makes them, in your opinion, "bad"?

Originally posted by youwhatref
I can see what you mean, but dont they say that behind every bad man is a woman? :P


I think you are getting a little mixed up there. The saying is:

Behind every successful man, is a women – and behind her, is his wife. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by redrobbo

In over 30 years experience in the field of domestic violence, I have assisted hundreds of women, and only 2 men. And in one of those cases, the woman struck her husband on the head with a spade whilst he was asleep in bed - having finally snapped after years of suffering violence at his hands.

Like a lot of women, a lot of men don't come forward and admit they are being abused. I don't know.....maybe it's a man thing about fear of being labled a wimp. After all aren't we supposed to be the stronger sex?......Yeah right....

How many men would come forward and say “I am the victim of domestic violence.” From personal experience, some authorities don’t take the male serious.

The nice blokes always get left behind. Give a bloke a motorbike and an attitude and females fall all over themselves to ditch their loving partner to have a go with this man.

Seems that the old adage - "Treat em mean - keep em keen" has a ring of truth to it perhaps.

I know some really nice men who have been ditched while their ex's run off with the local bad boy. Then they tend to complain when the so called bad boy ditches them in favour of the next flavour of the month, or week. In the meantime the nice bloke who would not harm a hair on his partners head is left holding the bills.

Wish I understood why females always go for the hard case when the opportunity arises.

My two cents worth.

Fallen

Originally posted by redrobbo
Read Erin Pizzey "Scream Quitely Or The Neighbours Will Hear" for further information.
I may well do that. It saddens me that in a so-called civilised society, there are these atrocities being committed every day.

After many years of campainging, the law has now been changed. Police can no longer discount witness statements from women who have suffered domestic violence - even if the woman requests to withdraw her statement.
I'm very glad to hear that. I hope the change has helped bring more of these maniacs to justice. Are there any stats which can reveal such an improvement?