"Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great. You can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom" a quote Nelson Mandela's speech in Trafalgar square for the campaign to end poverty in the developing world.

Every single day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty. This year, 2005, we finally have the resources, knowledge and opportunity to end this shameful situation.

That's what this topic is about. Join the band of people who are taking action to make poverty history. It only needs to take you a matter of minutes every month, but it will help us to literally change the world.

These are the 3 things you should do - join us now, get a white band & find out more Sheffield.

www.makepovertyhistory.org

Originally posted by manniefresh
"Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great. You can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom" a quote Nelson Mandela's speech in Trafalgar square for the campaign to end poverty in the developing world.

Every single day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty. This year, 2005, we finally have the resources, knowledge and opportunity to end this shameful situation.

That's what this topic is about. Join the band of people who are taking action to make poverty history. It only needs to take you a matter of minutes every month, but it will help us to literally change the world.

These are the 3 things you should do - join us now, get a white band & find out more Sheffield.

www.makepovertyhistory.org whatever:rolleyes:

Originally posted by manniefresh
These are the 3 things you should do - join us now, get a white band & find out more Sheffield.


Is there ANY charities now which don't require you to wear a stupid wrist band??????

Originally posted by mr craig
Is there ANY charities now which don't require you to wear a stupid wrist band??????

You don't have to wear it, just donate money and tell them to keep the wristband, which will save them more money. Simple.

Infact, it might be better NOT to buy the wrist band considering....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1495186,00.html

Originally posted by Sheffette
Infact, it might be better NOT to buy the wrist band considering....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1495186,00.html

The irony.

And sometimes it falls upon a whole stack of people of any generation to get out there and do something good.

Start now, tonight.

Look around you - help a friend, post something positive on this forum, read to your kids, make a decision to learn something new, change your life in a small way.

Start locally, build respect from the bottom up and you'll buiuld a feeling amongst people that will spring from the people, not be imposed on the people from above.

No matter how noble the cause, and how great the leader, people have to come to it in their own way.

Today I heard several people say 'We're fed up with giving' after hearing about the Live 8 project. That's so sad, but with the way it's being sold hard to us I guess it's inevitable.

And badges and wristbands? We don't need 'em. Carry the charity in your heart and act on it every day.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard


Today I heard several people say 'We're fed up with giving' after hearing about the Live 8 project. That's so sad, but with the way it's being sold hard to us I guess it's inevitable.

Giving? These people are severely misinformed. As far as I know the Live 8 concerts are not fund raisers but conciousness raisers. Tickets will be given away almost free (its a text message scam, but won't amount to more than £1.50)

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Giving? These people are severely misinformed. As far as I know the Live 8 concerts are not fund raisers but conciousness raisers. Tickets will be given away almost free (its a text message scam, but won't amount to more than £1.50) yeah £1.50 but thats no guarentee of getting a ticket

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Giving? These people are severely misinformed. As far as I know the Live 8 concerts are not fund raisers but conciousness raisers. Tickets will be given away almost free (its a text message scam, but won't amount to more than £1.50)

It's perception, though - as I often say on here perception is often what matters, not fact.

In terms of conciousness raising, a major 'Make Poverty History' rally is, I believe, due to take place a few days before Live 8. Why couldn't the concerts and the 'march to Edinburgh' have been better synchronised to that event? As it stands chances are that the less hyped event which has been planned for ages will be overwhelmed by the Live 8 gigs.

Egos are clearly not being left at the door this time.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
...Carry the charity in your heart and act on it every day.

Joe

I would like to think that I am the sort of person who does. However I think that I am increasingly becoming selfish in my outllook. I didn't used to be like this. Seems as if the more you get in life, the more selfish you become.
(Should be the other way round, I know).

I feel as if I try to protect what I have got and that makes me less sympathetic towards other's needs.

Originally posted by Deavon
I would like to think that I am the sort of person who does. However I think that I am increasingly becoming selfish in my outllook. I didn't used to be like this. Seems as if the more you get in life, the more selfish you become.
(Should be the other way round, I know).

I feel as if I try to protect what I have got and that makes me less sympathetic towards other's needs.

About 10 years ago I was a darn sight better off than I am now, and was pretty charitably minded. Nowadays I'm skinter but more 'involved' in things.

Now that I haven't got the money to give I give time and skills and I think that that's been more valuable.

Joe

I don't think Live8 is about raising money......... Its about raising consciousness (sp?) about the debts crippling african countries. Bob Geldof is trying to get people mobilised to show support for this cause and put pressure on the G8 leaders to do something about it.

The texts will raise some money and this is going to go to the princes trust. (they cancelled their gig in hyde park to allow the live8 one to take place).

If you text you have a chance of winning, but not guaranteed to get a ticket, but you have only lost about £1.50.... I suspect most people spend this on texts just arranging a night out so no huge loss.

Its politics that is bringing problems to the people of africa, through tyranical leadership, internal wars, debts to the rich west and lack of resources to fight poverty and disease.

Charitable donations will help today, but it's political change that will secure a safe tomorrow.

Thanks for reading.

Loopy.

Originally posted by LoopyLou

Its politics that is bringing problems to the people of africa, through tyranical leadership, internal wars, debts to the rich west and lack of resources to fight poverty and disease.

Charitable donations will help today, but it's political change that will secure a safe tomorrow.

Thanks for reading.

Loopy.

The best political change we could offer these people is to help them get rid of their dictators (militarily if appropriate) and then help them from the bottom up.

At the moment I feel that the 'drop the debt' scheme is getting all the pushing and to be frank I'm not sure that it's going to make any difference. The debt has been acquired by Governments in Africa who have chosen to borrow and spend on projects that might not be the best for their people. We get the truly offensive sights of countries armed to the teeth with starving millions or great urban poverty.

If we kill the debt WITHOUT encouraging change of government and social thinking then we'll end up doing the same thing in a few years. 17% neonatal death is high, but that does mean that 83% survive. Perhaps we remove the debt in return for a few changes in cultural outlook? If we provide medicines and healthcare to help people survive, is the 'have lots of kids because few will survive' attitude still relevant? If we remove debt within a decade then perhaps we should be able to dictate a few terms?

Most people in most countries just want their governments off their back, they want to have a family, work at something they enjoy and live to die of old age. Many individuals and organisations are helping people do this across the world, irrespective of government debts.

It's attractive to look at soemthing like debt and say 'In one bound they were free and everyone lived happily ever after' but I doubt it will happen. These schemes seem to be run by people who're talking at people from a distance. Having Geri Halliwell visit a village may make a few minutes on the news, but in terms of benefit to that village the money might have been better spent delivering a water engineer and some parts for a well.

Joe

Quote :- The lord helps them who help themselves.

Having been in some of the areas sometimes designated as needing world aid, I wonder if the quote applies to the people at the bottom of the chain, trying to eak out an existance, or the people at the top, creaming off a very large percentage of any kind of aid provided?
The GR8 concert will undoubtably provide a large source of income to music producers, T shirt sellers, ticket touts, and a wealth of spin off goods manufactured in the same sweat shops as the wrist bands.
I was in Africa in the 80's. Having a local labour force of around 150 or so to feed (Working in the Bush), I regularly bought food and clothes for them in the local markets. Most marked as "Gift from the people of *****" Yes, it was the "Food Aid" produce. The labour who cooked for themselves, were well provided, and sent the majority of the produce, along with their salary, back to their villages in a truck provided by the company. Thereby distributing the food aid to where it was really intended to go. At home on leave, I was accused by a well meaning left winger who had never left blighty's shores, of being one of the people who were exploiting africans.
Sudan has been much in the news lately, though why president Bush is talking to president Nbeiki about it, I don't know? North Eastern Sudan has a fantastic system of irrigation canals, fed by the white and blue Nile. Built by the British in a bygone age, but much of the system of pumping stations and locks are in working order, and managed properly, the area could feed most of Africa. Why not? Well blame the past twenty years of civil war between the "Have's" in the North, against the "Have Not's" in the South. Of course, religeous and ethnic differences contributed to this too. Sudan is on the American "Banned List" for aid, though the likelyhood of oil being discovered there will no doubt alter that status.
Zimbabway? ? All it takes is a misguided Despot and zealous followers. South Africa could soon follow (I have been talking to many semi-expatriots lately).
Remove the Despots? Try to change their ways by Sanctions?
There would be a huge outcry as usual. Cancelling world debt, and pouring in aid will probably increase the good fortune of the oppressive governments, who will just stay in power by rigged elections and brutal intimidation and bribes.
Cynically yours
Sheff

Who was in Edinburgh this weekend then?

I got back yesterday....am truly k n a c k e r e d!

But anyway. The march kept up a continuous flow around the city for about 6 hours, the enormous letters, once erected, looked stunning. The stallholders and different charities really pulled out the stops for the day, and everyone was working towards a common goal, it was nice. Even got to see Billy Bragg, Texas, and Eddy Izzard! (Odd combination...).

However...

Having been on a lot of protest marches a friend and I got increasingly annoyed by the atmosphere of the protest. People wouldn't join in with chants, songs....any of the usual bog standard stuff. They were just kind of quiet and unwilling - it was nice to see so many regular joes get out and take part, but they weren't willing to take it very far, and the atmosphere of the day felt very much more like a festival than a political rally - the issues were dumbed down and there was so, so much that wasn't said.

Minniefresh ,

I think you're completely wrong in saying , [in effect] , "we have only now got the resources to get Africa and the world's starving children out of their plight "

The fact is that , the world has had for a long time the resources to get Africa out of its mess. In fact , over the past 30 years , billions of pounds has been poured into Africa by various countries and agencies and the effect has been practically zilch to the average poor African.
The , "Left " and various charities seem to think they have a sort of monopoly on compassion and are constantly going on about , "saving starving children ". I would have thought that , "saving starving children " , went without saying. We all want to see suffering end somehow. But don't the Left and the Charities ever have a scintilla of doubt that their , "give 'em the money " approach might be wrong -----------after 30years ?
I 've asked before and haven't had an answer yet :-----How is it that countries , such as China , with worse problems than any individual African country can transform itself without aid ? Could it possibly be that the money going to Africa is syphoned off , under the noses of the naive agencies?
I saw a South African man , being interviewed on T.V. recently in the wake of the recent , "Make Poverty History " campaign . THe interviewer asked him how we , in the West could help ? The South African didn't hesitate for a second ,
" The West must give us more money and aid to solve the terrible prioblems of our country "
Not a hint that South Africa might try to solve its own problems ! Not a shred of dignity in ones abilities !
Just , " Someone must bail us out " -------till the next time , presumably !

I think the issue of world poverty is so huge that a lot of people get disheartened by it. People turn their backs and say: "What difference can I make?", but every little helps.

I did the Make Poverty History march this weekend and it was wonderful. There was a really wide cross-section of people, families, dogs ect. and it was really peaceful - a credit to all those who attended.

I was talking to Bob Geldof this morning and he said that even if the G8 summit doesn't pledge all the things we would like them to pledge, if they just do something like wipe out the 25 billion debt owed then that will be a start, and something to celebrate.

I've got a couple of charity wristbands (breast cancer and MPH), but if it's not for you then there are plenty of other ways to show support. A monthly direct debit to a handful of charities you really believe in is a good way to start.

I don't agree with all the activists who are currently trashing Edinburgh in the name of anti-capitalism or whatever, though. If they each sponsored a child in the third world they'd be doing a lot more to eradicate poverty.

JBee'

Let's just imagine for one minute that some observers are correct and that much of the money given to Africa , actually goes into the pockets of the Powers -that-be.
Now , obviously some of the money does reach the poor but it is only enough to stave off disaster until the next coup , civil war or other disaster.
Don't you honestly think that there should come a point when Africa [or to be more exact the individual countries] have to bite the bullet and stand on their own two feet ? It won't be easy but surely they ought to try. Pouring aid in , clearly hasn't worked for the vast majority.
Can someone answer the question , "How do certain countries pull themselves out of poverty. And why is Africa so patently unable to do so ?"

Two major things would help - fair trade and clean water.

Fair trade, because at the moment the trade restrictions imposed by African farmers by the west make it very difficult for them to make an income. If all the money we give them is being plowed into corrupt regimes then clearly they need to start generating money from inside their own countries. Money made for ordinary citizens, by ordinary citizens. We as consumers can help by choosing fair trade produce where possible. See www.newconsumer.org for more details. A more wealthy population generally weilds much more power over their own government too.

And clean water, for obvious reasons - health, farming, economy, ect.

I agree that recklessly throwing money at them doesn't seem to solve the problems, but if the G8 can solve some of the trade issues then that would be a very good start to empowering the African people.

You're getting too bogged down in the politics. Yes, they do have corrupt, money grabbing leaders, but that's no excuse for us to turn our backs on them. We've just got to give support more wisely.

And finally, it's not just the African nations who fall victim to corrupt Governments. Just look at America with Bush, or even us with New Labour. Not much of a democracy without a strong opposition eh?

Originally posted by manniefresh
"Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great. You can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom" a quote Nelson Mandela's speech in Trafalgar square for the campaign to end poverty in the developing world.

Every single day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty. This year, 2005, we finally have the resources, knowledge and opportunity to end this shameful situation.

That's what this topic is about. Join the band of people who are taking action to make poverty history. It only needs to take you a matter of minutes every month, but it will help us to literally change the world.

These are the 3 things you should do - join us now, get a white band & find out more Sheffield.

www.makepovertyhistory.org

well I may do two of those things but you wont find me wearing no wristband.

In fact, if it requires the wearing of said wristband then you can forget it.

And I'm all for Fair Trade as long as its for everyone.

As long as African nations are ready for the surge of Western rubbish that will flood their market.

I'm sure Nestle would love to flog loads more powdered milk over there :loopy:

for me its not really about aid. Its about :

Making countries keep, maintain and control democratic governance.

Human Rights

Clean water for all

Provide farmers with the means to grow crop which survive in a humid climate.

None of these things will happen without our support.

They may not happen with our support, but they DEFINITELY won't happen without it.