Following on from the original thread relating to proposed wind turbines in South Yorkshire I thought perhaps a poll to find out people's views.

Personally, I'm all in favour of wind turbines and agree that they can be quite spectacular, visually. As to them being sited somewhere such as on the edges of the Peak National Park I think they can only enhance the view.

So, do you love them or loathe them or do you think their OK but not in my backyard?

Countryfile ran a poll asking a similar question the other week. You can view the results and read the arguments here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/environment/programmes/countryfile/031026.shtml#1

Nomme

I voted yes but NIMBY.

I personally don't think a few windmills here and there would spoil the countryside but will it stop at a few? I fear that once we start down this route it will be hard to stop and we'll end up with windmills all over our national parks.

This doesn't mean I'm against wind generated electricity!!

Why not start the transition to "green energy" by putting wind turbines out at sea and out of sight (as some already are)? I know building and maintenance costs are approx 50% more but I personally think this is a price worth paying to leave our beautiful countryside the way it is.

Originally posted by Zamo
Why not start the transition to "green energy" by putting wind turbines out at sea and out of sight (as some already are)? I know building and maintenance costs are approx 50% more but I personally think this is a price worth paying to leave our beautiful countryside the way it is.
I'm guessing it may be something to do with there being less shipping in the Peak District. If you put them out at sea you use up half the electricity generated by having to have lights and fog horns on the things, perhaps.

Anything forward-thinking such as this that will promote clean energy is great - I'd have one in my garden!!!

re-roofing all the original victorian tiles in sheffield with photovoltaic cells would do the trick too.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
re-roofing all the original victorian tiles in sheffield with photovoltaic cells would do the trick too.

Yep, isn't it true that it would provide each home with free central heating and hot water?

It costs a bit to install, but I think that's returned in something like five to ten years.

I think that getting our power in this way should be something to aim for at almost any cost. It'd be awful to cover swathes of the Peak District in fields of turbines though. They aren't exactly pretty are they?

Originally posted by alchresearch
Yep, isn't it true that it would provide each home with free central heating and hot water?

It costs a bit to install, but I think that's returned in something like five to ten years.
I'm thinking more of generating several megawatts of power during the day.

A big sunny summer can mean that your electricity company gives you money at the end of the year instead of a bill.

Solar Panels can be used to preheat water that is going to go through boiler, and combined with an exhaust heat exchanger, this can reduce fuel bills by something like 40-45%.

One of life's ironies, the more money you have, the more you are able to save by using state of the art energy conservation technology. Many of us cannot afford to have our old houses properly glazed and insulated.

solar cells are fine for calculators.

realistically now, power stations could tap into the earths core to heat their water instead of fossil fuel.

Originally posted by TeeVee
solar cells are fine for calculators.

realistically now, power stations could tap into the earths core to heat their water instead of fossil fuel.
I wouldn't recommend trying to drill down to the earth's core. But yes, geothermal energy seems to be a very good direction to go in on the face of it.....

BUT

Should we really be trying to feed an insatiable appetite for power? It is my belief that rather than focus on generating more power, it is actually a great deal more cost effective to reduce consumption through clever uses of technology.

I was thinking along the lines of lazer borers on robots.

besides its only a depth of from Sheffield to Ethiopia to the core and you only have to go as far as the temperature we need (its 5,500c in the centre) to make a bit of steam for leccy.

IMHO we can't use less energy in this age . So energy saving bulbs are negated by leaving file servers and now web servers on all night.

Originally posted by TeeVee
I was thinking along the lines of lazer borers on robots.

besides its only a depth of from Sheffield to Ethiopia to the core and you only have to go as far as the temperature we need (its 5,500c in the centre) to make a bit of steam for leccy.

IMHO we can't use less energy in this age . So energy saving bulbs are negated by leaving file servers and now web servers on all night.

Good point. Although energy saver bulbs do reduce the overall amount of leccy used , their main function is to help bring bills down, not save the planet (so to speak).

So if we can't avoid using less energy, then rather trying to produce more we should waste less.

If you measure the energy contained in a lump of coal, or a nuclear fuel rod, it's colossal. We get a small amount of that energy out at the powerstation, the rest is wasted in heat, friction, sound etc. Then we stick it on to AC and pipe it accross the country through wires, which fizzle with heat, then we down convert it in transformers and you get the drift. With each stage there is a concomitant wastage of energy.

Perhaps we should actually devote more of our scientific resources on finding a good power storage solution. A perfect battery - one the size of a housebrick that could power your home for a month.

Why not? Energy doesn't take up any space. We would need to produce about 10% of our current energy output to meet current demands. We could charge these batteries up in space, in colossal solar farms, thousands of kilometers accross.

Or maybe even work out how to harness zero point energy in some useful fashion.

And also make computers and lights that require less energy maybe.

Can't believe I didn't see this one earlier.

I'm a big fan of wind power, I can see it becoming very much used in the future, and so it should.

I also reckon that wind turbines enhance a landscape. I'm from the Lake District, where there has been a big debate on this for ages (as there is everywhere I guess), and a few wind farms have been placed in the surrounding areas.

Provided they're given a sleek, curved look and don't have loads of ugly support thingys on the trunks (you know what I mean, I hope!) then they're fine. Example: this (http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd0278/wind-farm-30.3.jpg) looks a bit crap, but there's nothing wrong with this (http://fsv.homestead.com/files/WINDFA_4.jpg)...

looked this up and like solar - this will be great for calculators !

I've seen them close up elsewhere in the country and they have a majestic quality and this will sound wierd but I felt a very warm sensation whilst stood nearby them...

How many wind farm threads are there?
This is a copy (almost) of what I posted on the Hathersage wind farm thing:-

They might be majestic to the casual observer, but locals consider wind farms to be an eyesore, and I am speaking from experience. It is not really fair to comment on them unless you actually live near them? Try moving down to Cornwall where there are hundreds of the f***cking things everywhere. Luckily, Cornwall is not particularly dense in population and they don't encroach on communities as much as they would in other places.

I lived in Cornwall for a while, and here are the facts:-

Grockels (tourists to you lot) love the things, everybody else hates them. Sorry, if that's not what you wanted to hear.

Originally posted by Houdi
...I lived in Cornwall for a while, and here are the facts:-

Grockels (tourists to you lot) love the things, everybody else hates them. Sorry, if that's not what you wanted to hear.

Pity it's not a fact though (emphasis mine).

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Pity it's not a fact though (emphasis mine).

I never met one person living in Cornwall who actually liked them -mind you they were probably all surfers who are on a different planet anyway!

I actually do like them now I don't live in Cornwall. Whenever my family go to Newquay or St Ives everyone says 'ooh, aren't those windmills lovely?' Yes, of course, they are. Wouldn't like to live underneath one though as they make a h*ll of a humming noise when in full flow!!

the efficient storage of power could alleviate many of our problems, the generating companies already offer big discount for night time, or economy 7 elec, so try and charge your batteries at night, put the washer on a timer to come on at 7am etc, etc. MDI in france is suggesting doing something with compressed air generators that could also run cars and buses although the big car companies seem to have starved them of funds.

Depends on where they are situated to maximise efficiency and minimize environmental impact. I read a BBC report recently on a wind farm in Norway situated near some breeding Sea Eagles. It managed to kill the lot of them within a year.

Anything forward-thinking such as this that will promote clean energy is great

The old ideas are sometimes the best:D.


I'd have one in my garden!!!

If I'd got room, I'd have three or four:P.

They're utterly hideous - they desecrate the countryside. And they're a pretty unreliable and inefficient means of generating power as well. :mad:

Well that's that then. 85.48% of us are obviously barking up the wrong tree. :suspect:

Depends on where they are situated to maximise efficiency and minimize environmental impact. I read a BBC report recently on a wind farm in Norway situated near some breeding Sea Eagles. It managed to kill the lot of them within a year.


I saw this. It does seem to be the turbines that are to blame.

Although now that we know birds have superior colour vision, it might be possible to paint the blades up in ultraviolet reflective colours, invisible to humans.

Helical Turbines may be the answer too - and they are much quieter as there are no wingtip vortices. Nor do they need to be feathered in high winds.

In combination with changing the electricity distribution model (at least for domestic users) and, as mentioned above, working flat out to develop efficient local energy storage devices, domestic wind turbines may become as ubiquitous as TV aerials in some areas.

I never met one person living in Cornwall who actually liked them -mind you they were probably all surfers who are on a different planet anyway!

I actually do like them now I don't live in Cornwall. Whenever my family go to Newquay or St Ives everyone says 'ooh, aren't those windmills lovely?' Yes, of course, they are. Wouldn't like to live underneath one though as they make a h*ll of a humming noise when in full flow!!

i have just moved up here from Cornwall. Where I lived you could see three wind farms. I think they're great - and so do my family and friends who still live there.
Helical turbines (as someone mentioned) are great too - as demand increases the technology will develop in leaps and bounds. Like mobile phones and the internet. We hope. Check thread on Totley wind turbines. Be prepared for my rant.

Well that's that then. 85.48% of us are obviously barking up the wrong tree. :suspect:

Obviously, bring on the coal, oil and gas power stations, they blend in so nicely and have only minor drawbacks.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah

Wow, you've done a search for every related thread in the past two years and spammed it - congratulations, I'm rather interested in Solar Heating but I'll make a note never to deal with your company. Thanks!

Me either!

Well that's that then. 85.48% of us are obviously barking up the wrong tree. :suspect:

The masses have always been deluded

Well that's that then. 85.48% of us are obviously barking up the wrong tree. :suspect:

Unfortunately yes, you've all been conned.

I also would have one in my back garden if I could afford it.

I detest nimbys - 'we don't want wind turbines/mobile phone masts etc near us' but you do want to have electricity and mobile phone coverage don't you? If these turbines are not to go in areas of beauty, where should they go? On housing estates? Should other people have to put up with them for YOUR benefit? It is selfishness of the highest order.

If you want a source of renewable green energy in your area, (be it private housing, council housing, or countryside) and mobile phone network coverage, then accept the inevitable!

If these turbines are not to go in areas of beauty, where should they go?

Areas of ugliness obviously, like the ones in Catcliffe. Or offshore.

That's if you accept the need for them, which I don't. Look at the Danish experience where they haven't closed a single conventional power station despite building thousands of wind turbines because the wind is just not reliable enough.

Areas of ugliness obviously, like the ones in Catcliffe. Or offshore.

That's if you accept the need for them, which I don't. Look at the Danish experience where they haven't closed a single conventional power station despite building thousands of wind turbines because the wind is just not reliable enough.

So the residents of Catcliffe have to put up with them just because the area is not deemed beautiful?? We ALL need power so we should ALL have the turbines:thumbsup:

So the residents of Catcliffe have to put up with them just because the area is not deemed beautiful?? We ALL need power so we should ALL have the turbines:thumbsup:

Why would you want to make ugly somewhere that is beautiful?

I see the biggest problem is that you cant rely on wind to blow all the time, there are some periods of time, where the whole of the uk and europe have no wind, sometimes for 3 to 4 days, and usually in winter.... when we need power the most.

So you need power stations to be able to supply 100% of the power during these times.

The other issue is when wind changes, and the existing power stations are not designed to rapidly ramp up output very quickly to meet these demands, needing the development of large amounts of short time quick output generators, possibly hydro, using power at quiet times to pump water, or quick spin up gas turbines, which are not as energy effiecient, resulting in more co2 output.

plus the sheer scale of deploying tens if not hundreds of thousand of wind turbines will change the whole uk landscape.

long term the most realistic answer is to build more nuclear stations and reduce energy requirements...

While we are encouraged to turn tvs off standby, just taking 1 less bath or shower a week can make much larger differences; Also weare a jumper and turn your heating down :)

Why would you want to make ugly somewhere that is beautiful?

I don't see them as ugly, and if you are unfortunate to live in an area that is already classed as ugly, is it fair to make it worse? If you are lucky to live in a beautiful area, you either have to accept that you get the turbines, or do without power.

solar cells are fine for calculators.

Disagree slightly.

Stick one in space - I mean something about 4 times the size of the international space station which would be easily the biggest single feat of engineering for humanity, but dooable - and you'll have a power station in space capable of powering the 4 biggest cities in the world. Getting the power back to earth is already a technology that we have!

I don't see them as ugly, and if you are unfortunate to live in an area that is already classed as ugly, is it fair to make it worse? If you are lucky to live in a beautiful area, you either have to accept that you get the turbines, or do without power.

I detect a well known note of SF inverse snobbery.

You can have your wind turbines and do without power when the wind isn't blowing. I'll take nuclear power myself.

I detect a well known note of SF inverse snobbery.

You can have your wind turbines and do without power when the wind isn't blowing. I'll take nuclear power myself.

And will you take the cancer/leukaemia/birth defects that occur in the event of nuclear disasters? So. some people find wind turbines ugly, but that's better than the dangers of nuclear power surely?

You can have your wind turbines and do without power when the wind isn't blowing. I'll take nuclear power myself.

Was thinking along the same lines. Highest occasional windspeed over the last ten days or so has been 10mph here, but it has mostly been 6mph or less and from this site windspeeds won't be capable of generating much power in the week to come...

http://www.xcweather.co.uk/