Fathers that dont stick around to bring their children up [Archive]

tracey104

26-11-2008, 23:07

The Manager

26-11-2008, 23:26

Beebop

26-11-2008, 23:54

Alien

27-11-2008, 00:00

You can spend so much time naming and shaming, hating etc... that the security you have with your child can be severely effected. If someone did abandon you then their probably doing you a favour. I'm sure I wouldn't want anyone around who couldn't commit at least 100%.

The Watcher

27-11-2008, 00:03

The mugs dont know what they are missing.
If they want to leave then let them, your better of without them.

Alien

27-11-2008, 00:08

The mugs dont know what they are missing.
If they want to leave then let them, your better of without them.

Maybe they do....or do you know the op?

savbaby

27-11-2008, 00:09

hi was just wondering if there is any mums out there who get really annoyed with men who are willing to have sex with you promising you the world and when you are pregnant or had the baby they soon do a runner? i was wondering we should all name and shame and that the law needs to change as these father always seem to get away without having to support the children financially. just wondering what people thought about this, i am not having a go about fathers who dont get a choice and are forced not to see their children just the men who arent bothered

the men that do runners are the ones missing out on the happiness children bring you and its their loss not the childs. If the father is the sort to skulk away from responsibilty then the child is better of without.

financially yes they should be helping out but there is something satisfying knowing that you have coped and done it all by yourself!

Here we go, name and shame men. If this happens, I hope that women get named and shamed who use their kids asa a weapon against their natural father.

BUt as always, I guess the woman will be entitled to be anonymous

I totally agree with you here, i have known women like this and seen what is has done to the kids. Its just evil/childish and men should really have more rights!

tracey104

27-11-2008, 00:16

Beebop

27-11-2008, 00:17

the men that do runners are the ones missing out on the happiness children bring you and its their loss not the childs. If the father is the sort to skulk away from responsibilty then the child is better of without.

financially yes they should be helping out but there is something satisfying knowing that you have coped and done it all by yourself!

I totally agree with you here, i have known women like this and seen what is has done to the kids. Its just evil/childish and men should really have more rights!

Absolutely spot on. (the highlighted bit)

If people worked things through instead of running to solicitors, I'm sure things would work out better for all.

The only people to benefit from long drawn out splits are solicitors, who are laughing all the way to the bank. (have to say, I don't blame them)

tracey104

27-11-2008, 00:17

Here we go, name and shame men. If this happens, I hope that women get named and shamed who use their kids asa a weapon against their natural father.

BUt as always, I guess the woman will be entitled to be anonymous

i think women who do this should be named and shamed and in my eyes they are no different to the fathers who abandoned their children

The Watcher

27-11-2008, 00:18

Maybe they do....or do you know the op?

No i dont know the op. I just cant imagine what life would be like without my kids.

tracey104

27-11-2008, 00:20

i do not know watcher myself i feel the same as you though my children are my life i live and breath for them, i couldnt imagine life without them

savbaby

27-11-2008, 00:20

my daughter is 10yrs old now and i take great pleasure knowing that i have done it all myself with no fiancial help or emotional help. i know that my daughter is alot better off without her biological father(sperm donor). thankfully i met a man 6yrs ago which we now have a son together and hes a brilliant dad to both my children. it just gets me how these fathers get away with so easily and there is never no consequences for them.

there are not always not consequences! my daughters father messed me about so much and last year got in contact through email asking how he was and wanting an address to send a birthday and xmas present to. well as soon as i mentioned i was seeing someone the emails stopped and she never got anything in the post! i was so angry i went to the csa ( something i never thought i would do) he tried to deny she was his but refused the DNA test so they have arrested his wages and i get money every 2 weeks:hihi::hihi: i dont want his money so its going straight into her trust fund and she will get it once she is 18.

so yes most get away with it but some dont:D

Phanerothyme

27-11-2008, 00:21

The mugs dont know what they are missing.

Amen to that

tracey104

27-11-2008, 00:23

amen to that and all that is good and who can step up to their responsablilites

Beebop

27-11-2008, 00:24

dynamick

27-11-2008, 01:33

My mother left my dad 3 times - he was the innocent party - she slept around with anything that moved.

The day she walked out for good - was the beginning of my life and an end to the misery and pain she caused during my first 15 years of life.

I know I shouldn't look for someone to blame for the problems I have from time to time with depression - but I'm sorry....the problems stem from what a evil cow she was to me when I was little.

I hate her guts. Sorry but it's true.

Mick x

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 01:59

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 02:05

my daughter is 10yrs old now and i take great pleasure knowing that i have done it all myself with no fiancial help or emotional help. i know that my daughter is alot better off without her biological father(sperm donor). thankfully i met a man 6yrs ago which we now have a son together and hes a brilliant dad to both my children. it just gets me how these fathers get away with so easily and there is never no consequences for them.

So let's get this straight.

You're dead happy without your eldest's father, yet you want material gain from him (who you kindly call a 'sperm donor'), despite the fact that you have a happy life now?

The very fact that you call him a 'sperm donor' implies to me that you wanted a child, and sod him. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but I can tell you there are many men who have fallen into the 'fatherhood trap', and when that happens, there are fewer consequences for the woman.

You have actually made me very angry.

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 02:07

No i dont know the op. I just cant imagine what life would be like without my kids.

Nor could I, but that isn't the point.

Goon

27-11-2008, 06:23

I am what you may call an 'absent father'. I will not go into detail but I considered that the situation was one that I had to get out of for the benefit of all parties. This was back in 1993. I have had no end of problems with access to my son since then. i have been through solicitors and begged and pleaded with my ex-partner but she has always made things very difficult. I do see my son but not a great deal.

As far as the CSA are concerned there are a few reasons why certain people would object to paying a certain amount of maintenance. The current system is extremely unfair and takes very little into account when assesing maintenance. Also in some cases, (including mine) fathers have had to pay the maintenance twice. By this I mean that despite paying maintenance over a period of years, the resident parent can claim the payments again to be collected as backpay by the CSA.

Sound unbelievable? Well it happens. The resident parent can in effect commit fraud legally and with the blessing of a government agency who will gladly collect the money. This is down to the CSA being given financial targets by the government that they have deadlines to keep. The CSA are unwilling and unable to hear the case of the non-resident parent as they will take all the money they can legally. This is currently 44% of the non-residents take home pay.

Generally men do not resent paying maintenance they just resent being ripped off.

xruthx

27-11-2008, 06:59

my partner left me when our son was 3 months old.my heart was shredded to bits and i struggled to cope alone, however, a hardness grew inside of me, a determination never to get hurt again. i raised my child without a penny from his father and i would not dream of stooping to the level where i ever did. i felt i had to doubly prove myself in society as a single mother and am emmensly proud of all i have acheived.

i will never fall in love to that extent again and i will never ever put myself in a situation to be hurt by a man.

let them get on with it, raise your head up high and be strong. my son is 13 now and is no worse off for not having his dad.:thumbsup:

syne

27-11-2008, 08:49

xruthx

27-11-2008, 09:17

he's no better off for not having his dad either. of course that particular 'dad' may be an arse but there will be points in his life where a dad of any discription is/would be better than an absent one.

i never said he did not have a father figure in his life, i said his own father is not missed.
why should he be made to feel like he is not a complete person just because the sperm donor cannot be assed to see him or even acknowledge his exsisitence.

tracey104

27-11-2008, 11:11

So let's get this straight.

You're dead happy without your eldest's father, yet you want material gain from him (who you kindly call a 'sperm donor'), despite the fact that you have a happy life now?

The very fact that you call him a 'sperm donor' implies to me that you wanted a child, and sod him. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but I can tell you there are many men who have fallen into the 'fatherhood trap', and when that happens, there are fewer consequences for the woman.

You have actually made me very angry.

sorry but yes you are wrong we had been together for many years and my daughter was planned by both of us when i did fall pregnant it took him 20wks to tell me he didnt want the baby and his other confession was that he was seeing somebody els and that she was actually pregnant

Kthebean

27-11-2008, 11:17

Funny you know, I 'know' of two children who were desperately wanted by a woman, who gave no thought to the father who didn't want any more children. Strange how "I'm using contraception", and "waiting until it's right for me" can sound very, very hollow.

Not having a go at mothers either, like ....... but shall I name and shame too?

I do feel quite strongly that if a man doesn't want children he should

wear a condom
have a vasectomy
or
keep it in his pants

if you're going out with/married to someone who isn't trustworthy enough to be believed when they say they're using contraception, or you just want to get your end away unprotected, then more fool you.

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 11:20

sorry but yes you are wrong we had been together for many years and my daughter was planned by both of us when i did fall pregnant it took him 20wks to tell me he didnt want the baby and his other confession was that he was seeing somebody els and that she was actually pregnant

As I said I would, I apologise.

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 11:23

I do feel quite strongly that if a man doesn't want children he should

wear a condom
have a vasectomy
or
keep it in his pants

if you're going out with/married to someone who isn't trustworthy enough to be believed when they say they're using contraception, or you just want to get your end away unprotected, then more fool you.

What a silly statement.

In two circumstances I know of, the couples had been living together for four and five years respectively. Given that, don't you think it's reasonable to trust your partner when she says she's using the most reliable form of contraception outside of chastity?

tracey104

27-11-2008, 11:24

As I said I would, I apologise.

i accept your apology. the topic i started i knew people would take it black and white and yes i know there is some great fathers out there who do a great job i also know there is some rubbish mums who dont deserve their children it pains me even more that we bare children give birth to them and all we want to do is protect them in life we have an instant bond with our baby as sson as we become pregnant in my eyes these mums who dont stick around make me sick i could never walk out on my children know matter how hard life gets, same as the fathers that do the same for their children .

MrNM

27-11-2008, 11:27

hi was just wondering if there is any mums out there who get really annoyed with men who are willing to have sex with you promising you the world and when you are pregnant or had the baby they soon do a runner? i was wondering we should all name and shame and that the law needs to change as these father always seem to get away without having to support the children financially. just wondering what people thought about this, i am not having a go about fathers who dont get a choice and are forced not to see their children just the men who arent bothered

Hows about getting to know them a bit first before having sex and even possibly falling in love with them, or otherwise ditching them first untill these criteria are met.... Generally less chance of becoming a single mum and going on Jeremy Kyle later on it life!

Having read the full thread I see this was an advanced relationship so the above clearly does not apply to you, however it's an appropriate generic response given how your OP was worded! 'Letting them have sex to make baby after wispering sweet nothings in your ear on't first date' is how that post came accross......

foxforcefive

27-11-2008, 11:31

I know a couple of girls who have been left holding the baby, I also know a couple of guys who, try as they might, are refused access to their kids through no fault of their own. I even know a few people who agree on child access and maintenance.

Location114

27-11-2008, 11:32

Im with you on this one tracey bear in mind Im male and I must say I hate fathers who aren't responsible I have a 2 year old niece who has never seen her biological father which is a good thing in my eyes as hes just a idiot.... now luckily my sister has met a really nice lad and loves my niece like his own and she loves him loads 2 there obviously having another baby now... anyway yeah the way I see it is this if your man enough to have sex your man enough to deal with the consequences and I think coming from a 20 year old that shows that some people need to be more grown up and take more responsibility for there actions.

Kthebean

27-11-2008, 11:32

What a silly statement.

In two circumstances I know of, the couples had been living together for four and five years respectively. Given that, don't you think it's reasonable to trust your partner when she says she's using the most reliable form of contraception outside of chastity?

Its obviously not reasonable as its a very common occurrence. Already one person on this thread has said they would do it.

I dont know the couples you talk about but I imagine they would have had some conversations about how desperately she wanted children.

Its a choice you make:

use a condom
dont have sex
put your destiny in the hands of the person you are going to bed with

which of those is the "silliest" option is up to the individual in question.

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 11:42

Its obviously not reasonable as its a very common occurrence. Already one person on this thread has said they would do it.

I dont know the couples you talk about but I imagine they would have had some conversations about how desperately she wanted children.

No, on both counts.

Its a choice you make:

use a condom
dont have sex
put your destiny in the hands of the person you are going to bed with

which of those is the "silliest" option is up to the individual in question.

Right, so that's the pill used, and a barrier. Why not have a coil fitted as well to make triply sure? In fact, while were at it, best use the withdrawal method with all of these methods too, because you can't be too careful :rolleyes:

Kthebean

27-11-2008, 11:47

I am responsible for making sure I do not get pregnant if I do not want to be. If I choose to trust someone else on that score then that is a risk. If I feel that strongly about not wanting children, I should use contraception personal to myself.

happyhippy. I dont see that theres any need to call my views silly or to use the rolling eyes emoticon simply because I think something different to you.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 11:49

Here we go, name and shame men. If this happens, I hope that women get named and shamed who use their kids asa a weapon against their natural father.

BUt as always, I guess the woman will be entitled to be anonymous

she did say that she wasnt having a go at themen who want to see their kids and are being used by the mothers. shes wanting to amke a statement about the dads who move on and think that they can just walk away and not bother.

women arent always innocent but that should be discussed on a new thread because this thread about men who dont stick around and dont bother!

foxforcefive

27-11-2008, 11:51

No, on both counts.

Right, so that's the pill used, and a barrier. Why not have a coil fitted as well to make triply sure? In fact, while were at it, best use the withdrawal method with all of these methods too, because you can't be too careful :rolleyes:

I think now you're being a little childish. I agree with Kthebean on the use a condom comment, I can't see why any man wouldn't use 1 if they don't wish to become a father.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 11:54

my daughter is 10yrs old now and i take great pleasure knowing that i have done it all myself with no fiancial help or emotional help. i know that my daughter is alot better off without her biological father(sperm donor). thankfully i met a man 6yrs ago which we now have a son together and hes a brilliant dad to both my children. it just gets me how these fathers get away with so easily and there is never no consequences for them.

i have never been in your situatin tracy but admire you that you didnt do a runner wen the going got tough and honestly think that some men cant handle the responsibility of lookig after a child 24/7.

luckily for your daughter, she has had a male rolemodel in her life and put my hands up to this generous man that has supported you and your daughter. xx

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 11:57

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 11:59

I think now you're being a little childish. I agree with Kthebean on the use a condom comment, I can't see why any man wouldn't use 1 if they don't wish to become a father.

Because if you're in a long term, loving relationship with a woman you're living with who says she is using one of the two most reliable forms of contraception on the planet, you shouln't need to factor in even more contraception.

It's called trust, and after four or five years it should be reasonable to have some.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:00

So let's get this straight.

You're dead happy without your eldest's father, yet you want material gain from him (who you kindly call a 'sperm donor'), despite the fact that you have a happy life now?

The very fact that you call him a 'sperm donor' implies to me that you wanted a child, and sod him. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but I can tell you there are many men who have fallen into the 'fatherhood trap', and when that happens, there are fewer consequences for the woman.

You have actually made me very angry.

this statement is really untrue. i think she uses the words 'sperm donor' because thats all he played a part in before ran off. not because she just wanted a sperm donor and that was all she wanted or she wouldnt be on here making a statement about absent fathers. we dont know the ins and outs of their relationship so we cannot judge. the facts is that he got her pregnant and didnt hang around to take responsibility

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 12:02

this statement is really untrue. i think she uses the words 'sperm donor' because thats all he played a part in before ran off. not because she just wanted a sperm donor and that was all she wanted or she wouldnt be on here making a statement about absent fathers. we dont know the ins and outs of their relationship so we cannot judge. the facts is that he got her pregnant and didnt hang around to take responsibility

Which is why I apologised, as I said I would :)

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:05

foxforcefive

27-11-2008, 12:11

Because if you're in a long term, loving relationship with a woman you're living with who says she is using one of the two most reliable forms of contraception on the planet, you shouln't need to factor in even more contraception.

It's called trust, and after four or five years it should be reasonable to have some.

No you shouldn't need to, but unfortunately you do need to, no contraception is 100% accurate.

Trust works both ways, if an accident happens it'd be nice to think the guy could be trusted to stick around and help bring the accident up if need be.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:16

Which is why I apologised, as I said I would :)

sorry im just readig through all the threads and listening to different opinions. am catcing up now,lol.

i totally agree with you about trust in a relationship and to tell you the truth i have ben with my husband for nearly 5 years now and i got pregnant within 2 months of us getting together. wrong of me but i was 16 and nieve and didnt think it wuld happen to me and didnt expect him to stiuck around. after our son was born we got married and he supported me. i went on the pill and i got ill and all of a sudden fell pregnant within 3 months of giving birth and we discussed the issue of having 2 kids so early and we went on to have her and were still together. were really strong together and hes my best friend as wel as my husband.

im currently on the depo and have been for 2 1/2 years now and dont want another one, my husband strongly feels the same and were happy at sticking to that.

however, at the begining of our relationship i risked everything on this an that i knew 2 months and it could ahve gone the other way for me. just shows that not all men are the same and that i was lucky to have had him because id have really struggled at 21 now on my own with 2 kids.

happyhippy

27-11-2008, 12:23

No you shouldn't need to, but unfortunately you do need to, no contraception is 100% accurate.

Trust works both ways, if an accident happens it'd be nice to think the guy could be trusted to stick around and help bring the accident up if need be.

Don't agree with the first point, especially as for many people using barrier protection makes the whole thing less enjoyable as well, and aside from that, I don't see the point in over-egging the pudding, er, so to speak!

Completely agree about the second point though.

foxforcefive

27-11-2008, 12:28

Don't agree with the first point, especially as for many people using barrier protection makes the whole thing less enjoyable as well, and aside from that, I don't see the point in over-egging the pudding, er, so to speak!

Completely agree about the second point though.

I'll second that, but it's gotta be more enjoyable that 16 years of raising a kid that you don't want.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:37

I'll second that, but it's gotta be more enjoyable that 16 years of raising a kid that you don't want.

are you still saying that after 16years you still think your kids a mistake???

Kthebean

27-11-2008, 12:37

Because if you're in a long term, loving relationship with a woman you're living with who says she is using one of the two most reliable forms of contraception on the planet, you shouldn't need to factor in even more contraception.

It's called trust, and after four or five years it should be reasonable to have some.

Yes it should be reasonable to.

Unfortunately it may not be, as your friends have found out.

The line of thinking "I had sex with her, she said she was on the pill, she lied, now shes pregnant, I didn't want a child" doesn't wash with me.

Its like saying "I gave her all my money to look after, she spent it, now shes left me, I'm broke" - you should've been more careful!

As for making it less enjoyable - as forcefoxfive says - its a choice. You take the risk.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:39

Yes it should be reasonable to.

Unfortunately it may not be, as your friends have found out.

The line of thinking "I had sex with her, she said she was on the pill, she lied, now shes pregnant, I didn't want a child" doesn't wash with me.

Its like saying "I gave her all my money to look after, she spent it, now shes left me, I'm broke" - you should've been more careful!

As for making it less enjoyable - as forcefoxfive says - its a choice. You take the risk.

i agree with you

foxforcefive

27-11-2008, 12:43

are you still saying that after 16years you still think your kids a mistake???

Where the hell did that come from? Slow down a bit love and read what has been written.

My two kids were very much wanted and loved from conception.

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 12:45

hi was just wondering if there is any mums out there who get really annoyed with men who are willing to have sex with you promising you the world and when you are pregnant or had the baby they soon do a runner? i was wondering we should all name and shame and that the law needs to change as these father always seem to get away without having to support the children financially. just wondering what people thought about this, i am not having a go about fathers who dont get a choice and are forced not to see their children just the men who arent bothered

Let them leave and enjoy your children. A father is the one that comforts them in the night and listens to their 3 hour conversation about action man or barbie. Not the one that had his way and buggered off.

On the other hand mothers who use their children as a way of control and think they are automatically the one to dictate are equally as foul.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 12:45

Slow down a bit love, and perhaps read all of what I have written.

My two kids were very much wanted and loved from conception.

sorry im trying to find a thread of yours as i dont know where you got 16years from. made me think summat else

tracey104

27-11-2008, 13:50

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 14:00

oh dont worry tracey you have a right to call his this because its all hes done. at the end of the day no matter how deep this thread goes we dont know wether you forced him into having kids(not daying you did,i no u neva) or if this was a long term relationship- he never stuck by his responsibilities and if we were to do the same and abandon our responsibilities we would most definately be slandered. men think that walking away form this will give them another chance in life and it wont-wen they mature and take responsibility anfd face reality it will eat up at them for years and years for walking out on somehting precious.

mothers that are forced to bring up children on their own should get a medal, and same goes for father that have been left the responsibility aswel x

willman

27-11-2008, 14:01

I think all absent fathers should have deductions made from salaries with taxation - then no fiddling overtime or wage slips to suit.
Their absence cannot be replaced but the financial loss due to their absence can be.
I also think that any mother who purposely does not name the father on the birth certificate should be allowed nothing.

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 14:05

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 14:05

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 14:07

The mother can not put the father on the birth certificate. He must be present at the time unless they are married.

true. i remember wen i got my 2 done, i had to have my husband with me to have him on the certificate so if fathers are not on the birth certificate then its either because they couldnt be bothered or the mother held him back- in which i think if proven by dna that he is the father he should go on as the kids father

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 14:09

i didnt think a father that wasnt on a birth certificate should be allowed to pay up till proven hes the father

If the woman is on benefits she is automatically required to inform the child support agency of the father. The csa will then contact him and ask him if he is the father. If he contests this they will be sent for a dna test. Whether he is on the birth certificate or not.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 14:13

If the woman is on benefits she is automatically required to inform the child support agency of the father. The csa will then contact him and ask him if he is the father. If he contests this they will be sent for a dna test. Whether he is on the birth certificate or not.

so if this is one way of getting a dna test done for csa, why the hell do people go onto jeremy kyle saying that its the last solution and that wen dna are done on jeremy kyle its always cos theyve split up and are wanting to prove him to be the dad to get money out of them.

why do people do this publicly? i'll never know why people would want to humiliate and involve their personal life to the nation wen this can be done discretely :confused:

SUPERTYKE

27-11-2008, 14:13

willman

27-11-2008, 14:14

The mother can not put the father on the birth certificate. He must be present at the time unless they are married.

That must be a change to the old days then.
I'd personally be a bit offended as a new mother if the father couldn't be bothered to accompany me to the registrars office.

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 14:16

That must be a change to the old days then.
I'd personally be a bit offended as a new mother if the father couldn't be bothered to accompany me to the registrars office.

It is rather a huge insult. Probably more to the child as they grow up though.

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 14:17

so if this is one way of getting a dna test done for csa, why the hell do people go onto jeremy kyle saying that its the last solution and that wen dna are done on jeremy kyle its always cos theyve split up and are wanting to prove him to be the dad to get money out of them.

why do people do this publicly? i'll never know why people would want to humiliate and involve their personal life to the nation wen this can be done discretely :confused:

I think they have to pay for it.

k8s-mammy

27-11-2008, 14:30

There really are some bitter women on the forum these days.
Of course these guys are scumbags for deserting their kids - no question - I wonder, how many women would desert the 'egg' if we reproduced 'henlike'?

Anyway, in many cases, it is as much the womans fault; for I suspect that happy families and marraige are the last thing on a guys mind whilst back scuttling in a Tesco car park.

are you implying that the women are fault for having children and that men have nothing to do with it all? aint you just offended the men out there that generaly want to get married and settle down with a child?

women are not to blame and if men didnt want a child they should use protection and not leave it to the woman they picked up off the street or in a pub etc. i agree its different wen its a long term relationship but your implying a quick romp. if that was to happen then i think the fellas stupid and shud shop thinking of his penis and think with his bran!!:rant:

Ouija

27-11-2008, 16:00

The mother can not put the father on the birth certificate. He must be present at the time unless they are married.

Isn't that going to change soon, though? I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's (perhaps only a proposed) going to be law that both parents have to be named on the certificate.

Cyclone

27-11-2008, 16:19

Cyclone

27-11-2008, 16:23

Births must usually be registered within 42 days. 'Stillbirths' should also normally be registered within 42 days and no later than three months after the birth.

If the parents were married at the time of the birth or conception, either the mother or father of the child can register the birth on their own. If the father is not married to the mother but registers the birth jointly with her, he will ensure that he has parental responsibility.

This implies that either parent can register the birth and put down the name of the other parent.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/family/birth_certificates.htm

chinaski

27-11-2008, 16:30

Dave650

27-11-2008, 16:42

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 16:54

It's extremely unlikely that any man will get away without paying support if the mother can identify him and he's not skipped the country.

No not at all. Many men get away with paying nothing but in hindsight their children are probably better off with no input from them whatsoever.

Dave650

27-11-2008, 16:56

No not at all. Many men get away with paying nothing but in hindsight their children are probably better off with no input from them whatsoever.
re-read, nevermind

Cyclone

27-11-2008, 16:59

No not at all. Many men get away with paying nothing but in hindsight their children are probably better off with no input from them whatsoever.

Not because of any lack in the law though.

If the mother chooses not to pursue it, that's her choice, but to call for a change in the law on that basis is crazy, the law is present and correct, people just have to make use of it.

savbaby

27-11-2008, 16:59

This implies that either parent can register the birth and put down the name of the other parent.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/family/birth_certificates.htm

either parent can put the name down but if the couple are unmarried then the father must be present if the mother goes alone!

the father can go alone because the mother is linked with the child when the hospital forward the birth details to the registry office know who she is.

My daughter does not have her father on her cert as i came back to scotland to have her and he was not present at birth as we had seperated.

as for the previous posts about the csa, the father has to prove the child is not his its not the mother who has to prove that he is the father. I recently went through this and he denied he was the father as he was not on the birth certificate, they said he must go for a dna and if he was the father he gerts charged for the test if not then the csa pay it. Well he refused to go and they presumed parentage and he has to pay maintenence till he proves otherwise:D

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 17:01

Not because of any lack in the law though.

If the mother chooses not to pursue it, that's her choice, but to call for a change in the law on that basis is crazy, the law is present and correct, people just have to make use of it.

Not at all many people mothers and fathers with parental care have gone through the child support agency and still get nothing from the absent parent. It works if the absent parent complies.

savbaby

27-11-2008, 17:06

Not at all many people mothers and fathers with parental care have gone through the child support agency and still get nothing from the absent parent. It works if the absent parent complies.

the absent parent in my case has not complied at all, infact he has totally ignored the csa. I get paid every 2 weeks thanks to them arresting his wages! put my claim i at the end of april this year and my first payment came through start of october. so 6 months in all to get it all sorted which i think its pretty good!

willman

27-11-2008, 17:18

The section is bold is complete nonsense isn't it.
There are several examples on here of the CSA in action, and plenty more reports.
It's extremely unlikely that any man will get away without paying support if the mother can identify him and he's not skipped the country.

I'm afraid thats not correct at all. They only have to move away(town or city) and not inform the mother where they are, they can request that their employers fiddle wage slips,they can leave their job.
All of which I am privy to having happened - the behaviour is despicable.

I reported my nephew (in law) for most of the above btw.

Cyclone

27-11-2008, 17:26

Not at all many people mothers and fathers with parental care have gone through the child support agency and still get nothing from the absent parent. It works if the absent parent complies.

If they don't comply then the CSA stops it directly from their wages.

I know it's not perfect, but that's not down to the law, it's down to the implementation, passing more laws wouldn't alter this, and in the vast majority of cases it works just fine. So like I said, the section I highlighted from the OP was nonsense wasn't it.

willman

27-11-2008, 17:27

If they know where the wages come from.
The absent father has no legal obligation to advise his ex of his movements.

Cyclone

27-11-2008, 17:30

I'm afraid thats not correct at all. They only have to move away(town or city) and not inform the mother where they are, they can request that their employers fiddle wage slips,they can leave their job.
All of which I am privy to having happened - the behaviour is despicable.

I reported my nephew (in law) for most of the above btw.

Moving away just makes the process more difficult presumably.
They can ask all they want, I wouldn't think that many employers would comply.
Yes, they can deprive themselves, but that isn't wrong IMO, if they quit their job (and presumably can't then claim benefits) they can't pay maintenance, but they've just stopped their own income as well.

Changes in the law would stop non of these things, the OP was still incorrect, the law is sufficient as it stands and most fathers cannot and do not avoid paying maintenance.

savbaby

27-11-2008, 17:31

If they don't comply then the CSA stops it directly from their wages.

I know it's not perfect, but that's not down to the law, it's down to the implementation, passing more laws wouldn't alter this, and in the vast majority of cases it works just fine. So like I said, the section I highlighted from the OP was nonsense wasn't it.

If they cannot stop it from the wages and the person is being totally uncompliant they have other powers such as taking away the persons driving licence. I thought this was crazy when i first read it but then thinking about realised if they are not paying already the threat of a fine or extra payments is not going to do it!

the csa has a lot of flaws but in my case it has worked perfectly!

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 17:38

If they don't comply then the CSA stops it directly from their wages.

I know it's not perfect, but that's not down to the law, it's down to the implementation, passing more laws wouldn't alter this, and in the vast majority of cases it works just fine. So like I said, the section I highlighted from the OP was nonsense wasn't it.

If they dont comply the csa will try to take it out of their wages. If they can find where they work, if their employer complies and if they are self employed they can slip through yet again.

tracey104

27-11-2008, 17:40

i have involved the csa from day 1 when my daughter was born and i havent recieved a single penny in ten years? confused.com when i have questioned this i have always been told that they cannot tell me the personal reasons why because of confidantiality which makes my blood boil as i know he and his little cosy family arent without as his girlfriend/ wife was left some money who by the way meet her at work as he use to be a drug rehab advisor and she had ben a smack head for years if i sound bitter i think i have the right too just on the basis that he wanted a child we planned her and he had his cake aswell,

willman

27-11-2008, 17:42

Changes in the law would stop non of these things, the OP was still incorrect, the law is sufficient as it stands and most fathers cannot and do not avoid paying maintenance.

I'm not saying that most fathers don't pay - but there are too many who get away with not paying. Fathers name and NI number recorded with registrar and monies collected under the umbrella of the tax office - job done. IF everyone keeps it above board.

fez.

27-11-2008, 17:50

yep thats right

cloudybay

27-11-2008, 17:56

I'm not saying that most fathers don't pay - but there are too many who get away with not paying. Fathers name and NI number recorded with registrar and monies collected under the umbrella of the tax office - job done. IF everyone keeps it above board.

Quite. HMRC should have been tasked with collecting child maintenance rather than the DWP. Conversely, the payment of benefits (tax credits) should never have been given to HMRC in the first place as this is the remit of the DWP.

A new 'non departmental public body' has been set up to try to rectify this sad and sorry debacle but I'm not holding my breath. http://www.childmaintenance.org/

waxonwaxoff

27-11-2008, 17:58

No father chooses to save some money by giving up their chance to see their priceless unique child. Money doesn't buy happiness couldn't be more valid. The real problem should be obvious from womens own self-confessed protective motives which is most women don't want to share their cuddly barbie doll. Thats understandable as woman have it growing inside of them. So stop creating situations that make the fella leave and then say it was their choice, when we know all women have a built-in selfish mechanism.

Yes actually some do. Some men do chose not to see their children because they are selfish and irresponsible. In some cases the woman can be a complete head case but in other cases a womans protectiveness for their child is what makes them bite their tongue so the child can see their father as and when they want to even after they have suffered at the hands of him. Some mothers go to lengths to use their child as a weapon. Others go to great lengths to do what their child needs no matter how it makes them feel and it is still chucked back in their face by the irresponsible pratt that calls himself a father.

Smithster

27-11-2008, 18:08

Fathers that don't skick around to bring children up hmm?

My dad walked out on us when I was six years old. He worked in shipping and was frequently away from home for weeks on end, Then one day in 1981 he went away on a trip and that was that, he never came back. After a frantic few months worrying like mad and wondering where he was, my mum got a message from an aquaintance of his saying "She'll be alright. Her mum will look after her".

He left my mum with a load of debt that he had racked up without her knowledge, two kids and a mortgage, and no job. She had to co to court several times to fight Social Services for custody of me and my older brother who was 9 at the time. She had to beg and borrow from family and friends for a while until she got into full-time employment. It was hard, but she never gave up and did everything she possibly could to give my brother and me the best up-bringing she could.

When I was 24 he got in touch with my mum saying that he would like to see my brother and me again and 'make a contribution' as he put it. What a joke. It turns out he had been living in Germany and then Denmark and was all alone. I didn't want to speak to him at first, I figured that he didn't want anything to do with me for the last (and most important) 19 years of my life - why the hell should I want anything to do with him? But I ended up going to meet him in a hotel in Winchester because I thought I should at least hear what he had to say rather than spend the rest of my life thinking 'what if?'. After sitting with him for 20 mins I realised that I was glad he was not around when I was growing up because he was an arrogant, self-obsessed pr1ck. From that point on I decided that I didn't want any further contact with him, which laid to rest a massive ghost because at least now it was my decision and not his.

I recently heard that he had had surgery to remove a cancerous tumour in his prostate, and was recovering at my aunt's house in Winchester. He had decided that he wanted to see his two kids because he was feeling sorry for himself, so he got in touch with my mum and she passed the message on. My immediate reaction was **** him! I firmly believe that you reap what you sow in life. If you live your life in a selfish and irresponsible manner with no regard for the people who love and depend on you, then you cannot possibly expect those same people to be there for you just when it suits you.

He's in his seventies now and not in the best of health, so he probably doesn't have that long to live. I, for one, will not be going to his funeral.

sandie

27-11-2008, 18:28

hi was just wondering if there is any mums out there who get really annoyed with men who are willing to have sex with you promising you the world and when you are pregnant or had the baby they soon do a runner? i was wondering we should all name and shame and that the law needs to change as these father always seem to get away without having to support the children financially. just wondering what people thought about this, i am not having a go about fathers who dont get a choice and are forced not to see their children just the men who arent bothered

There are 2 sides to a coin and both are different. Think for a moment this is your experience not all are the same, so before you have a go at Fathers ask yourself the question who has caused the situation.

Your post implies that all men walk, well do they walk or are they pushed, as to name and shame. Where do you intend to do this, milk cartons or in the local press.

youwhatref

27-11-2008, 19:02

I can see the OP is bitter about it all and if a father is not paying his way than you have my sympathy and he's an ass who should never be allowed to see his kids if he wont contribute what is fair.

But we can also turn the coin and I think many mothers are vile in how they use kids as a weapon.

I'm seperated but pay for my kids. I went to the CSA to make sure i paid the right money and i've not had no problems. I even pay a little more sometimes and will never deny my kids anything. They (and ex) live in a nice house now, i live out of a bedroom and have nothing. Many dads do the same!

cloudybay

27-11-2008, 19:18

I can see the OP is bitter about it all and if a father is not paying his way than you have my sympathy and he's an ass who should never be allowed to see his kids if he wont contribute what is fair.

But we can also turn the coin and I think many mothers are vile in how they use kids as a weapon

Regardless as to who pays what, a child should always have access to both their parents.

If either parent denies access to the other over petty financial squabbles then both of them are unfit to bring up their off spring.

This is not about the parents but about their children.

youwhatref

27-11-2008, 19:51

Regardless as to who pays what, a child should always have access to both their parents.

If either parent denies access to the other over petty financial squabbles then both of them are unfit to bring up their off spring.

This is not about the parents but about their children.

I agree in general as the main element to parenting is loving your kids and being there for them. Part of being there is contributing financially. Even if a dad (or mum) is earning £50 a week, they should give £5/10 to help out! Denying a child some type of support is wrong and i would question there parenting!

willman

28-11-2008, 06:48

Regardless as to who pays what, a child should always have access to both their parents.

If either parent denies access to the other over petty financial squabbles then both of them are unfit to bring up their off spring.

This is not about the parents but about their children.

I think the payment of maintenance should have no bearing on visitation imho.

Being a father has no rights but loads of responsibility.

The Watcher

28-11-2008, 06:53

I think the payment of maintenance should have no bearing on visitation imho.

Being a father has no rights but loads of responsibility.

How did you work that out?

x-GiGgLeS-x

28-11-2008, 06:57

I have just noticed this thread ( I dont think Ive seen it before) and I havent read all the replies has theres pages and pages of it but, I have to say my real dad didnt see us either he wasnt bothered. We had contact again afew months ago and after about a month he got bored or something and stopped texting or coming to visit me and his grandchild. I do have to say Im not bothered though, Ive always had a father figure in my life and it aint him and I dont need him. Ive managed this long so Its not gonna effect me now.

BUT.. on the other hand, My partner found out afew months ago he had a daughter he never knew about. We got contact and now see her on a regular basis and I love her to bits. Her mother doesnt have care of her due to being a prostitute and being on drugs etc.. The mothers mom has custody of her, but I have to say since we found out about her we have her and take care etc.. So not all men are bad.. just most of them!!

willman

28-11-2008, 07:00

How did you work that out?

You have no rights to your child at all - you may have a legal right to visitation against you rex partner,but you can't "force" a child to see you, so the legal stuff is irrelevant.
You have no other rights as an unmarried father.

The Watcher

28-11-2008, 07:22

You have no rights to your child at all - you may have a legal right to visitation against you rex partner,but you can't "force" a child to see you, so the legal stuff is irrelevant.
You have no other rights as an unmarried father.

What if your named on the birth certificate?
Does that change anything and what about married fathers, is the law any different for them?

willman

28-11-2008, 07:33

What if your named on the birth certificate?
Does that change anything and what about married fathers, is the law any different for them?

You wouldn't ask if you hadn't already Googled it.

But can a spouse argue that an estranged/deserted/seperated father who is being divorced still fulfills the role of a husband?

k8s-mammy

28-11-2008, 07:41

There are 2 sides to a coin and both are different. Think for a moment this is your experience not all are the same, so before you have a go at Fathers ask yourself the question who has caused the situation.

Your post implies that all men walk, well do they walk or are they pushed, as to name and shame. Where do you intend to do this, milk cartons or in the local press.

this is a bit harsh. tracey has posted this thread from experience with a father that walked out for no reason other than he decided that he didnt want responsibility and you cant knock her for being there to bring up a child on her own. you dont know why this man left her.

as for the fact that some fathers are pushed and some just leave, this post clearly stated fathers that walk out on their children and not fathers that have been pushed out of their childrens lives by mothers. we all understand your opinion but this thread is for mothers who have been abandoned by men that think they dont have responsibility to look after a child.

and what do you mean who causes the situation ??? it dont matter wether the marriage ends or not, a father should never walk away for a child.

Ms Macbeth

28-11-2008, 07:50

You have no rights to your child at all - you may have a legal right to visitation against you rex partner,but you can't "force" a child to see you, so the legal stuff is irrelevant.
You have no other rights as an unmarried father.

I agree. Having children is all about responsibility though isn't it. Whatever 'rights' we may have, how we exercise them may well come back and bite us on the bum when the children grow up.

I can understand how hard it must be when a relationship breaks down when chldren are involved - but surely both parents first responsibility is to ensure the kids are ok and maintain some sort of continuity in their lives. Lets face it, a child with one good parent will be happier than a child with 2 who are rubbish.

The Watcher

28-11-2008, 07:59

You wouldn't ask if you hadn't already Googled it.

But can a spouse argue that an estranged/deserted/seperated father who is being divorced still fulfills the role of a husband?

Answering your question id say yes she can argue that but
whats fulfilling the role of a spouse got to do with being a dad?

willman

28-11-2008, 08:20

Answering your question id say yes she can argue that but
whats fulfilling the role of a spouse got to do with being a dad?

If the wife claims that she is divorcing the childs father - can she argue he is no longer her husband?
If she can he would not then legally have any rights either. I don't know if she can or not, which is why I questioned it.

savbaby

28-11-2008, 08:47

What if your named on the birth certificate?
Does that change anything and what about married fathers, is the law any different for them?

there has been a change in the last few years regarding this, when i was registering my son this year i was asked if i was sure that i wanted his dads name on the birth certificate. I said yes and was once again asked if i was 100% sure. This is because there is a new law stating that if the father is on the birth certificate then he has equal parental rights to that child.

tracey104

28-11-2008, 12:07

this is a bit harsh. tracey has posted this thread from experience with a father that walked out for no reason other than he decided that he didnt want responsibility and you cant knock her for being there to bring up a child on her own. you dont know why this man left her.

as for the fact that some fathers are pushed and some just leave, this post clearly stated fathers that walk out on their children and not fathers that have been pushed out of their childrens lives by mothers. we all understand your opinion but this thread is for mothers who have been abandoned by men that think they dont have responsibility to look after a child.

and what do you mean who causes the situation ??? it dont matter wether the marriage ends or not, a father should never walk away for a child.

you are quiet right i started the post about father who abandon their children wasnt having a go about fathers are mothers who still see their children and take good care of them. i am not a stupid person i know that some mothers use their children to gain what they want. i have stated clearly my situation so if anybody is confused by post read what i have wrote. i started it to see if any other mothers thinks that these sperm donors should get away with it. and it would have been interesting to share some stories with mothers who have experienced the same are similuar situation as myself,

SUPERTYKE

28-11-2008, 14:28

are you implying that the women are fault for having children and that men have nothing to do with it all?

YES

women are not to blame and if men didnt want a child they should use protection and not leave it to the woman they picked up off the street or in a pub etc. i agree its different wen its a long term relationship but your implying a quick romp. if that was to happen then i think the fellas stupid and shud shop thinking of his penis and think with his bran!!:rant:

All women are scumbags.

Cyclone

28-11-2008, 16:17

If the wife claims that she is divorcing the childs father - can she argue he is no longer her husband?
If she can he would not then legally have any rights either. I don't know if she can or not, which is why I questioned it.

Once on the birth certificate they have joint parental responsibility.
Divorced or not, until a court says otherwise any major decision requires his permission as well as hers, and that's just how it should be.

tracey104

28-11-2008, 16:32

YES

All women are scumbags.

if you do not have anything constructive to add to this topic dont bother having an opinion on it

sandie

28-11-2008, 18:56

this is a bit harsh. tracey has posted this thread from experience with a father that walked out for no reason other than he decided that he didnt want responsibility and you cant knock her for being there to bring up a child on her own. you dont know why this man left her.

as for the fact that some fathers are pushed and some just leave, this post clearly stated fathers that walk out on their children and not fathers that have been pushed out of their childrens lives by mothers. we all understand your opinion but this thread is for mothers who have been abandoned by men that think they dont have responsibility to look after a child.

and what do you mean who causes the situation ??? it dont matter wether the marriage ends or not, a father should never walk away for a child.

Hi k8s mammy, when did the forum rules change so that threads are only for a specific choice of people. I thought that when a subject was posted that we all can have an opinion.
You talk about Women who have been abandoned by men are you talking from experience or heresay.
My point was from the post we only have the OP version of events and I do take issue with the attitude that Fathers walk out and abandon their responsibility.
The mother is not allways the vicitm of a man leaving and having to bring up a child alone. I unlike you have been in this situation and to be honest you have not a clue what you ara talking about.
My sons found me and asked the question "Why did you leave us" after hours of talking they understud the reasons and all they wanted was to know was my side of the story.
So please dont preach to me about men. We dont know what happens behind closed doors.
One final point the OP has a voice are you her nominated second in other words my reply was to the OP not you.

willman

28-11-2008, 18:59

Once on the birth certificate they have joint parental responsibility.
Divorced or not, until a court says otherwise any major decision requires his permission as well as hers, and that's just how it should be.

Being on a birth certficate doesn't mean they are married.
Being married doesn't mean they are named on a birth certificate.

dynamick

28-11-2008, 20:02

a father should never walk away for a child.

Nor should a mother....it's not all one way traffic you know!:rant:

xruthx

28-11-2008, 20:09

Nor should a mother....it's not all one way traffic you know!:rant:

this is very true mick :thumbsup:

happyhippy

29-11-2008, 07:17

Being on a birth certficate doesn't mean they are married.
Being married doesn't mean they are named on a birth certificate.

Very true. I'm named on all three of my daughters' birth certificates, yet if anything went to court, take a wild guess where the parental responsibility would lay.

Cyclone

29-11-2008, 09:03

Being on a birth certficate doesn't mean they are married.
Being married doesn't mean they are named on a birth certificate.

No and I didn't say that it did.
Being on the birth certificate does mean that they share joint parental responsibility though, which is what I said.
Are there any other unrelated facts you'd like to have, having spiky hair doesn't make them a punk rocker?

Cyclone

29-11-2008, 09:08

Very true. I'm named on all three of my daughters' birth certificates, yet if anything went to court, take a wild guess where the parental responsibility would lay.

I can tell you where it lies now, which is the point I made. Obviously a court can alter that.

If the parents of a child are married to each other or if they have jointly adopted a child, then they both have parental responsibility. This is not automatically the case for unmarried parents.

According to current law, a mother always has parental responsibility for her child. A father, however, has this responsiblity only if he is married to the mother or has acquired legal responsibility for his child through one of these three routes:

* (after December 1 2003) by jointly registering the birth of the child with the mother
* by a parental responsiblity agreement with the mother
* by a parental responsiblity order, made by a court

Living with the mother, even for a long time, does not give a father parental responsiblity and if the parents are not married, parental responsiblity does not always pass to the natural father if the mother dies.

All parents (including adoptive parents) have a legal duty to financially support their child, whether they have parental responsibility or not.

Does that help?
Willman - note that being married is sufficient, although if he wasn't named on the birth certificate he might have to prove through a DNA test that he was the father.
Also, slight correct, it's not the name on the birth certificate that matters, it's jointly registering the birth.

happyhippy

29-11-2008, 10:53

Exactly Cyclone. In my world the parental responsibility lies with the mother, unless I were to gain a judgement in court. However, the law automatically grants the mother responsibility, no matter what she may be doing.

Rich

29-11-2008, 11:16

Yeah, in 9 out of 10 custody cases, the Courts give custody to the Mother.

tracey104

29-11-2008, 11:45

Mt Op Was About Fathers Who Dont Stick Around Not About Csa Are Divorcing Are Parental Rights, I Was Interested In Peoples Opinion On Sperm Donors Who Just Do A Runner

happyhippy

29-11-2008, 12:00

Mt Op Was About Fathers Who Dont Stick Around Not About Csa Are Divorcing Are Parental Rights, I Was Interested In Peoples Opinion On Sperm Donors Who Just Do A Runner

Ok. Let's have a look.

hi was just wondering if there is any mums out there who get really annoyed with men who are willing to have sex with you promising you the world and when you are pregnant or had the baby they soon do a runner? i was wondering we should all name and shame and that the law needs to change as these father always seem to get away without having to support the children financially. just wondering what people thought about this, i am not having a go about fathers who dont get a choice and are forced not to see their children just the men who arent bothered

My bold bits.

First one = getting divorced/splitting up
Second one = CSA/maintenance payments
Third one = parental responsibility, both moral and legal.

willman

29-11-2008, 15:20

I can tell you where it lies now, which is the point I made. Obviously a court can alter that.

Does that help?
Willman - note that being married is sufficient, although if he wasn't named on the birth certificate he might have to prove through a DNA test that he was the father.
Also, slight correct, it's not the name on the birth certificate that matters, it's jointly registering the birth.

No one was doubting your comments just querying the possbile scenarios.

sandie

29-11-2008, 18:37

Mt Op Was About Fathers Who Dont Stick Around Not About Csa Are Divorcing Are Parental Rights, I Was Interested In Peoples Opinion On Sperm Donors Who Just Do A Runner

I must be missing the point, are you talking about a relationship you had and it failed after you became pregnent, or areyou dascribing a "sperm Donor" who tries to help families that can not have childern.

If you are refering to a casual partner who you lived with, the I am many men would find the term "Sperm Donor" as an insult.
If that is the way you describe men and claim that it was all his fault by walking out I am not supprised he did.
Before you condem all men as the same take a look back at yourself and ask the question did I have a part to play in the breakup, if your answer is no not a lot of people will beleive you. It is usually six of one and half a dozen of the other.

tracey104

30-11-2008, 11:03

my relationship with my daughters sperm donor was a long relationship the relationship failed because he was having an affair, he wanted a child and we was trying for years and when i did eventually become pregnant months later he confessed to his affair and that he no longer wanted a child so yes i think i have the right to call him sperm donor. if some men are offended by this i would ask yourself y when im not calling anybody els a sperm donor. and if you ask my i didnt not cause the relationship to fail he did. anymore questions

Beebop

30-11-2008, 18:27

I do think that women (not in your case Tracy104 as you have explained things from your point of view) who call me Sperm Doners, who bugger off after getting a woman pregnant, really need to look at themselves.

There are plenty of decent men, who would give their right arms to be a father and provide emotional support. These men are often the boring types that women avoid.

You allow yourselfs to get pregnant by the and then complain that these men do a runner, once a bit of backbone is required, ie goin to work and working all hours godsend simply to put a roof over a childs head, providing the woman with emotional support through her preganancy, and the night time feeds.

So when you are getting the legs open for the smooth talker, who makes you believe you are a classy lady, because you drink cocktails instead of larger, don't complain when he clears off when you find yourself pregnant

sandie

30-11-2008, 19:07

Well said not all of us are the same so get of the sympathy trail and deal with life as it is.

dynamick

30-11-2008, 19:37

100% agree with you Beebop! - Well done pal! :)

Ghostrider

30-11-2008, 19:51

I agree 100%....

Beebop

30-11-2008, 23:14

Hey thanks everyone for the feedback :thumbsup:

So then ladys, the next time you critisise that office geek, or poke fun at the bloke in the bar who looks like a loser (the type that may not have the most fashionable brand of shoes, or be wearing a shirt from Next, rather than a shirt with MOSCHINO accross the back) ...... just think, this chap may look a toss pot on the outside, but on the inside could be the perfect material to be a dad.

Accepted, the bad boy, the violent man (and certain women love these types), the one that spends all his money on gambling, the man with the most up to date haircut, and the Gucci £250 Jeans, looks great on the outside but what about the inner qualitys?????

Also, if the man you are about to have a one night stand with, was got 3 other women pregnant and then done a runner 3 times, there is a good chance he could do the same to you - but don't tell me, you have what it takes to change this bad boy.

So ladys, look at yourselfs........

My last word on this, can you honestly look at yourself in the mirror, and say you gave the man one.......YES ONE, genuine chance to step up to the mark? because if not, you yourself will have a series of difficult from your own children. YOur relationship with the man may have broken down, however you do not have the right to end the mans relationship with his child.

As for the CSA/Solocitors - think on this, the more the man spends on CSA payments, and on Solicitors fees, then that money he would have had for his child will now no longer be there. Surely a man is better to have a few thousand in his bank account for rainy day money ........maybe like a car for the mrs so she can go to the shops.......... or for central heating repairs to keep the house warm should that break down, that goving his life savings to a wealthy layer. Just think of the money you could save, if you dealt with the split on an amicable basis :)

Right I'm off to bed now, when it comes to relationship breakdowns involving children, we are only allowed to blame the man, so I guess I been a bit naughty.

tracey104

01-12-2008, 11:59

i agree with u not all women are victims and some men are when it comes to women who use their children to thier advantage are decide on having a baby regardless who the dad will be, i have a wonderful partner now and we have a child together although he still brings my daughter has his own and all his family do the same to which i am grateful just a pitty we didnt meet each other sooner.

scarletmarie

01-12-2008, 15:48

I accept there's many cases, such as documented on here, where men have left their kids for less than noble reasons. However, I can't help feeling that when I see all those 16 year old girls, usually in pairs, pushing kids around holding mars bars, fag in one hand - you get the picture - well, I can't help thinking 'the man who was on top of you last year, did you REALLY expect him to stick around?'

i got caught pregnant at a young age whilst in a relationship and the father ended it and denied the baby from me being 3 month pregnant!it really annoys me that people see young mums and automaticly think we are all slags!age isnt really an issue these days,yet we still get slated for it.i brought my son up for 10 month on my own!

but in the fathers defense he saw sense and owned up to his responsibilitys,we are know a family and expecting our second child:)

so not all men are bad...

Berberis

01-12-2008, 16:00

my daughter is 10yrs old now and i take great pleasure knowing that i have done it all myself with no fiancial help or emotional help. i know that my daughter is alot better off without her biological father(sperm donor). thankfully i met a man 6yrs ago which we now have a son together and hes a brilliant dad to both my children. it just gets me how these fathers get away with so easily and there is never no consequences for them.

Women get away with murder under our current laws and that was said by a prominent magistrate!

How many dedicated government departments are there to help fathers who have had their children taken away from them, by their ex’s, regain access? Try none! Then what dedicated government department helps women use financial hardship to get back at their exes? Its called the CSA!

tracey104

01-12-2008, 18:21

sandie

01-12-2008, 19:10

Personally I Think The People That Slate Young Mums Have A Problem Of Their Own That They Cant Face The Fact That They Can Look After Their Babies Well, And Before Anybody Starts Suggesting That They Neglect Their Babies Im Sure There Is Alot Of Teens Mums Do Just As Much There Is Adults Mums That Do. It Doesnt Matter How Old You Are When You Become A Mum As Long As The Baby Is Well Looked After And Not Neglected It Shouldnt Matter, And There Is Alot Of Teen Mums Aswell With Adult Mums With No Father For Their Babies As They Have A Done A Runner

You seam to have a real problem with what you understand about so called men who leave poor inocent women who are left with the child to bring up on their own.
Why start this thread when your experience was years ago, are you trying to make a positive point or are you just trying to have a go at men.

As in my early post it is not allways the man that walks in a lot of cases the man is pushed, not only by the Mother but supported and sometimes quite agressivly by the mothers Familly and relations, so dont tell me that all Farthers are the same and the Mother is blameless, because that is not the case.
I have been there and it is not all Black and White so back of with the insults to men

tracey104

01-12-2008, 20:17

You seam to have a real problem with what you understand about so called men who leave poor inocent women who are left with the child to bring up on their own.
Why start this thread when your experience was years ago, are you trying to make a positive point or are you just trying to have a go at men.

As in my early post it is not allways the man that walks in a lot of cases the man is pushed, not only by the Mother but supported and sometimes quite agressivly by the mothers Familly and relations, so dont tell me that all Farthers are the same and the Mother is blameless, because that is not the case.
I have been there and it is not all Black and White so back of with the insults to men

ONCE AGAIN DOES IT MATTER WHEN MY EXPERIENCE WAS I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT. IM NOT TRYING TO NEITHER OF THE POINTS YOU MAKE AND YES I AM HAVING A GO AT MEN THAT DONT STICK AROUND TO FACE THEIR RESPONSABILITIES. IF YOU READ ALL MY POSTS I HAVE SAID IN SOME CASES WOMEN ARE TO BLAME, MY POST WAS FATHERS THAT DONT STICK AROUND NOT FATHERS WHO TRY TO STICK AROUND, WHAT ARE YOU NOT GETTING WITH MY POINT. I THINK YOU SHOULD READ ALL I HAVE WROTE. MY POINT WAS MADE VERY CLEAR. IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY SPERM DONOR I WOULD ASK YOURSELF Y? MY PARTNER HAS GOT A SON TO A PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP AND SEES HIM ON A REGULAR BASIS AND HE ISNT OFFENDED BY THE WORD SPERM DONOR

Kthebean

01-12-2008, 20:27

oldskater

01-12-2008, 20:49

i have a 20yr old i rarely see because although his mum and i split on reasonable terms when he was 18 month old. and i paid not only about a years wages as a settlement, but also a shop, plus weekly maintenance payments for him for 16 years. his mum decided that she would go down the route of blaming me for every misfortune in her life (its an old story i hear from others far too often). she managed to do a very very good job of poisoning him towards me.

i can only speak from my own experience, but unfortuntely my experience wasnt a good one. i have a child full of hate towards me because his mum is evil.

happyhippy

01-12-2008, 20:54

ONCE AGAIN DOES IT MATTER WHEN MY EXPERIENCE WAS I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT. IM NOT TRYING TO NEITHER OF THE POINTS YOU MAKE AND YES I AM HAVING A GO AT MEN THAT DONT STICK AROUND TO FACE THEIR RESPONSABILITIES. IF YOU READ ALL MY POSTS I HAVE SAID IN SOME CASES WOMEN ARE TO BLAME, MY POST WAS FATHERS THAT DONT STICK AROUND NOT FATHERS WHO TRY TO STICK AROUND, WHAT ARE YOU NOT GETTING WITH MY POINT. I THINK YOU SHOULD READ ALL I HAVE WROTE. MY POINT WAS MADE VERY CLEAR. IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY SPERM DONOR I WOULD ASK YOURSELF Y? MY PARTNER HAS GOT A SON TO A PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP AND SEES HIM ON A REGULAR BASIS AND HE ISNT OFFENDED BY THE WORD SPERM DONOR

Steady with the Caps Lock!

I think the thing is that this sort of subject has been done before, and as I said on the very first page, I was angry with how you came across. Lots of men find themselves not being able to see their kids regularly (or even at all) because of how women are with them, and often because of the woman's new circumstances.

Your current partner may not find the term 'sperm donor' offensive, but then he sees his kid from a previous relationship regularly, and has his lovely life with you. All good and well for you all, but for many other men, it's damned offensive.

Again, as I was pointing out earlier, some women deliberately get pregnant. Apparently though, it's a man's fault if a woman lies to him. Also he has to pay for sixteen (plus) years for that woman's lie.

Is that right? Why shouldn't he walk away from it? It wasn't his choice, was it?

Going back to another point though, you say you're not having a go at Dads who try to stay around. Well, oddly enough, these are often the Dads who are punished financially (and as a result can't provide for a further relationship), despite the woman having a new partner who can provide (as you luckily have, in the latter case), not to mention not being able to see their children.

What would you rather? An absent father who can send a maintenance cheque every month, or a Dad who may be skint?

It's easy to be a father; being a Dad to child is hard and incredibly rewarding work.

My last words are these. If you want to be bitter about men (or more likely a specific man), then don't dress it up. Just let rip, but please, please don't think that many men who have been dropped on from a great height won't take offence.

Take care, and I really hope everything continues to work out for you.

happyhippy

01-12-2008, 20:54

Careful...

Its not just women that go for the exterior rather than whats on the inside...

'Tis true, 'tis true .....

Alien

01-12-2008, 21:04

"Sperm donor??" Ewwwww:gag: It's a phrase I associate bitterness with. I don't think you can sensibly debate with bitterness.

Nik Nak

01-12-2008, 23:38

I found myself in a similar situation to Tracey104 not very long ago, a 4 year relationship broke down after I told my ex I was pregnant. He walked away and denied the child was his. My daughter is now nearly 7 weeks old and I have chosen not to name him on the birth certificate or ask a single thing of him, I'll happily leave him to be at the mercy of his concience for the rest of his life. My daughter will not be without a father figure in her life however as I met Ghozer and we have been together since I was 6 months pregnant. I won't slag off anyone for leaving a bad relationship, however anyone who abandons a child is missing out on the best thing life has to offer.

What I will say is any man who steps into the shoes of an absent father and is prepared to raise someone elses child as their own is an absolute saint, we can get by on our own but sometimes its nice not to have to. Ghozer was with me when my daughter was born by emergency C-Section, has stuck with me through PND and will be a better father to Robyn than her biological father would ever have been.

happyhippy

01-12-2008, 23:54

Bonny

02-12-2008, 00:09

I've not waded through pages and pages of posts on here but from what i've read it seems like the same old assumptions are made. Can I remind everyone that not every absent parent is male. It's more common for the man to be the absent parent (pretty hard to leave it to the man when you're pregnant)! But as far as the CSA is concerned, it is the absent parent that is chased for maintenance payments whether they are male OR female.

Also, because it is more unusual for the mother to be the absent parent, it is automatically assumed they are somehow worse people than an absent father.

It's rather bitter and unfair to call the biological father of a child a 'sperm donor' when that's quite obviously not what they were. That they chose not to take responsibility for their actions demonstrates what is wrong in todays society. Along with rights comes responsibility and all those defending the rights of mothers and fathers must also recognise the responsibilities.

Nik Nak

02-12-2008, 00:30

Well said Bonny.

SUPERTYKE

02-12-2008, 12:30

if you do not have anything constructive to add to this topic dont bother having an opinion on it

I made my veiws crystal clear in my first post. I make no apologies for my impatience after being so liberally misquoted.

sandie

02-12-2008, 19:38

tracey104

03-12-2008, 16:29

Thanks for your reply tracey104 you oppend a can of worms with your post and it is natural to all those who have been restricted and refused access to their children which is mainly Farthers because of the mother, so to have a go at those so called ones that as you call it "walk" is not fair. Each situation is different as to why the Man as you call it stays away.
It is not in many cases that they are not facing up to their resonsabilities it is just they are not allowed to do so by the involvement of friends and familly.

To answer your SPERM DON0R point you will have not only upset and anoyed so many men that have tried their upmost to do the best for their child and I think that statement has prompted that responce.

You are happy now but ther are many that would love to be part of their childs life that are not allowed because of the way they have been treated.

So think long and hard at what you are saying we are not all the same.
Take Care

once again what is it that you dont understand i have said men that dont stick around and dont put up a fight (sperm donor) not men that try to see the children. And if i have annoyed anybody with the word sperm donor i would only be offended if i had walked out on my children NOT if i had tried to see them

Beebop

03-12-2008, 16:36

OK girls Sandie and Tracy104, stop fighting.

Take your handbags outside

(Sandie, you are a woman aren't you?)

dynamick

03-12-2008, 16:56

once again what is it that you dont understand i have said men that dont stick around and dont put up a fight (sperm donor) not men that try to see the children. And if i have annoyed anybody with the word sperm donor i would only be offended if i had walked out on my children NOT if i had tried to see them

I'm sure someone would come down on me like a ton of bricks if I called my mother an "incubator" or "foetus carrier" - she actually would be lucky to be called either, I consider her to be a (word that would get me banned from SF!) - she walked out on me 4 times as a child - for different men - she destroyed my dads life and did her best to destroy mine....I'm 37 now and I still have nightmares about what she allowed to happen to me. If I ever saw her again...I don't know if I'd break down in tears or breaks something over her head.

You probably label your ex as a "sperm donor" because he did YOU wrong....you can't judge every man who doesn't stick around (for whatever reason) - the same way as I'd be in a fix if I labelled every woman who walked out on their children for whatever reason.

It's very hard (and very wrong) to cast judgement on a situation you don't have first hand experience of.....so my advice to you is don't! :rant:

sandie

03-12-2008, 19:05

OK girls Sandie and Tracy104, stop fighting.

Take your handbags outside

(Sandie, you are a woman aren't you?)

Hi Beebop no I am not, but I have many many years ago have first hand experience of this. This is why the op is out of order, not all situations are the same the circumstances of every break up are different if you go back through my posts there are to sides to a story as to why a farther is absent.
It is not as people think aways the man, and yes I find the term "sperm donor offensive".

All of us are entitled to our oppinion based on our experience, but it does not overide others.
Hope this makes sence.

scarletmarie

03-12-2008, 19:08

I'm sure someone would come down on me like a ton of bricks if I called my mother an "incubator" or "foetus carrier" - she actually would be lucky to be called either, I consider her to be a (word that would get me banned from SF!) - she walked out on me 4 times as a child - for different men - she destroyed my dads life and did her best to destroy mine....I'm 37 now and I still have nightmares about what she allowed to happen to me. If I ever saw her again...I don't know if I'd break down in tears or breaks something over her head.

You probably label your ex as a "sperm donor" because he did YOU wrong....you can't judge every man who doesn't stick around (for whatever reason) - the same way as I'd be in a fix if I labelled every woman who walked out on their children for whatever reason.

It's very hard (and very wrong) to cast judgement on a situation you don't have first hand experience of.....so my advice to you is don't! :rant:

understandably what happened to you can never be justified or infact should never have happened and as you say you would call her things that would get you booted off sf,and you say you wouldnt consider your mum to be either an incubator or foetus carrier.tracey104 called the biological father of her child a sperm doner dont you think youve contradicted yourself a little there...from what i can gather she wasnt calling all males that.

just because she hasnt experienced her own father leaving doesnt mean shes not entitled to an opinion when it happens to her own child

dynamick

03-12-2008, 19:21

tracey104 called the biological father of her child a sperm doner dont you think youve contradicted yourself a little there...from what i can gather she wasnt calling all males that.

just because she hasnt experienced her own father leaving doesnt mean shes not entitled to an opinion when it happens to her own child

I said what if I called my mother that - I didn't actually call it her ;)

Everyone's entitled to their opinions but tracey doesn't think they are.....if you read back through the posts on this thread - she actually typed this.....

"if you do not have anything constructive to add to this topic dont bother having an opinion on it"

A forum is there for everyone to say what they feel - if it goes against what the OP thinks...it doesn't make it wrong does it?