as a clubber i am faced with drugs every weekend. just wondering what your views on drugs are. do any of you take them? would you say you are well educated on drugs?? etc

helpful hint.

when talking about drugs it is very imortant to specify at least what class of drugs you are talking about, and preferably which drug in particular.

By effect most drugs can be classed as one of the following

Analgesic - heroin, methadone, opium, morphine, codeine, dihydrocodeine (DF111) etc,.

Sedative - Barbiturates, Tranquilisers (Mandrax, Valium, Temazepam), Alcohol

Stimulant - Amphetamine, Cocaine, Crystal Meth, Crack, Ephedrine, Caffeine (MDA, MDMA), Nicotine, Theobromine, Pseudoephedrine.

Psychedelic - LSD, Psilocybin/Psilocin (found in 'magic' mushrooms, Cannabinoids (found in cannabis), (MDA, MDMA),

Dissociative - Ketamine (vetinary Anaesthetic, PCP, Dextromorphan (Cough Syrup), Salvinorum A & B (found in Salvia).

Not all 'drugs' are the same.

[edit, I have included MDA & MDMA (Ecstasy) on both stimulants and psychedelics,because they exhibit both properties markedly, and are used as such (many psychedelic substances also exhibit stimulant effects but these are rarely a reason for taking them)]

I would say your biggest problem in a night club is not knowing what you are getting. This is just my opinion.
You can PM me if you want to discuss drugs further.

no i was just wondering what everyones views were. for example, if my mum was on here, she would say that all drugs are bad blah blah blah. thats only because she has never taken any, and she is not educated in drugs at all. people who take drugs on a regular basis would say things like
drugs are good, or drugs are ok in moderation etc.

Originally posted by fittdiva
no i was just wondering what everyones views were. for example, if my mum was on here, she would say that all drugs are bad blah blah blah. thats only because she has never taken any, and she is not educated in drugs at all. people who take drugs on a regular basis would say things like
drugs are good, or drugs are ok in moderation etc.
WHICH DRUGS?

Have you seen the film 'human traffic'?? I see you are living in Wales and it's set there. Such a good realistic film and shows the clubbing drug culture amongst a group of friends, who like a lot of recreational drug takers, fall into the category of professional jobs during the week, hair down hedonists at the weekend!

I'm a Pharmacolgist so if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask me.
Are you refering to Pills (Ecstasy) by chance? or cocaine, weed, speed etc?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
WHICH DRUGS?

ok, ketamine, cocaine, weed, pills, speed, diazapan, acid. take your pick.

Originally posted by Foxxx
Have you seen the film 'human traffic'?? I see you are living in Wales and it's set there. Such a good realistic film and shows the clubbing drug culture amongst a group of friends, who like a lot of recreational drug takers, fall into the category of professional jobs during the week, hair down hedonists at the weekend!

I'm a Pharmacolgist so if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask me.
Are you refering to Pills (Ecstasy) by chance? or cocaine, weed, speed etc?

yeah i was an extra in that film. wicked. dont like the look of the 2nd one though.

I didn't know that there was a second one to be honest. What is it called?

its all gone pete tong. crap name innit. they should have left it as it was.cult film!

I've never really used any illegal drugs, and as such I'm not really sure what the appeal is. Are the benefits really worth the risks (and what are the benefits)?

Originally posted by Funky Dave
I've never really used any illegal drugs, and as such I'm not really sure what the appeal is. Are the benefits really worth the risks (and what are the benefits)?
That depends on a lot of things, namely
a)which drug you are using/abusing
b)whether you use it or abuse it.
c)what it does for you personally
d)whether and how much you have to pay for it
e)what the risks are for using it.

For example: Psilocybin and Psilocin are the main active constituents of Psilocybe Semilanceata, aka The Liberty Cap, aka 'magic' mushrooms.

These drugs are available at no cost, and have a very good safety record (no recorded deaths , a good LD50:ED50 ratio in rats (lethal dose is many hundreds of times larger than an effective dose))

If taken in the correct circumstances and dose they can offer you 5-8 hours of sublime joy and profundity, after which you will never see the world the same way again.

That's pretty good value, and they're not illegal either. Furthermore, different variants of psilocybean mushrooms, specifically psilocybe cubensis, can easily be cultivated at home for a never ending supply.

The key, as in all things, is moderation and practice.

So you're not going to slice your face off and feed it to the dog then?

Seriously though, specifically in what way do they affect your perception? I've been drunk, I've been high on one occasion, and I had to take prescription drugs for various reasons, and while they've all had interesting, not to say memorable, effects, I can't say they've really changed my life or made me want to continue experimenting (I drink regularly, but only to socialise). Is it just a relaxation thing, or do they honestly change your outlook on things?

Originally posted by fittdiva
as a clubber i am faced with drugs every weekend. just wondering what your views on drugs are. do any of you take them? would you say you are well educated on drugs?? etc

Personally I think people should be allowed to take drugs if they want to. The fact that people can tell me what I can and cannot put in my body disturbs me. Yes I do drugs and I would say I am very well educated on them - I wouldn't take them if I didn't know what to expect, having said that you always need to take care and never forget that they can be dangerous.

Originally posted by Funky Dave
So you're not going to slice your face off and feed it to the dog then?

Seriously though, specifically in what way do they affect your perception? ... Is it just a relaxation thing, or do they honestly change your outlook on things?
There are a lot of wildly varying theories about exactly what classical psychedelics do, and none of them can do justice to the experience which itself transcends language.

That is to say, it is very difficult to find words to describe what you experience because what you experience is outside language and can only be alluded to by metaphor and simile.

But in shorthand, it seems that our view of the world is a perception that is made up of memories, fantasies, real world sensory input and perceptive filters that screen out all the 'uninteresting' stuff and allow you to concentrate on single things. All of these 'inputs' are aggregated into the mind and splurged out to the 'ego' or 'I' as your picture of objective reality.

LSD in particular seems to 'adjust', or even according to some people 'lift', those perceptive filters so that you actually take in quite different 'truths' as perceptions of the world around you. You pay attention to different things, rather than see things that patently aren't there.

Visual disturbances are rarely confused with real world ones except in the relatively inexperienced users. Experienced users can, on mid range doses, screen them out to an effective degree.

But you realise that reality isn't as hard and fast as you thought it might be, or at least, that reality is what you make of it, quite literally.

These drugs can also have some startling visual effects, (seeing sounds fly through the air that sort of thing) that if you are unprepared, can leave you feeling disoriented.

Also, it is possible to get 'stuck' in an almost obsessive/compulsive loop, unable to break out of a train of thought that repeats itself inescapably.

This is the classic 'bad trip' and almost always results from taking the substance without any thought to the consequences. Left unchecked it could prove quite distressing, but more often than not it usually peters out of its own accord.

And a good sitter will have no difficulty in jogging your needle back into the groove.

But in the most part, well administered psychedelic drugs tend to have a positive life affirming affect, allowing the user to unlock a field of perception quite different to normal everyday 'making sense of the world'.

They tend to be anti-addictive, in the sense that there is rarely a desire to take any more after an experience, as it can be quite tiring. (I'm not counting Ecstasy here - some people do the most stupid things with pills, not least eat them)

What more can I say, other than Mushrooms Season is probably over until next year :(

Thank you Phanerothyme, for your contribution to this thread

If I could add my own views on drugs:

Paracetamol
Good for relief of headaches, and safe to be used by pregnant and breastfeeding mothers. There's even a baby version called Calpol infant suspension, a strawberry flavoured liquid and will relieve pain (including teething pain) and feverishness, without irritating the stomach. A sugar free variety is available

Aspirin and Ibuprofen
Good for relief of headaches and fever, but NOT to be used by pregnant and breastfeeding mothers. The baby version of Ibuprofen is called Nurofen for children, a pleasant tasting ibuprofen syrup, suitable for children aged between 6 months to 12 years.

Caffeine
Drinking two cups of strong tea before retiring to bed is NOT recommended if you need a good nights sleep.

Morphine
The drug of choice! (...according to my younger brother, who was having his appendix seen to in hospital at the time)

edited - I missed out a product name

I concur on the above morphine-related point. Injured myself during a game of rugby an was given one of those self-administered morphine machines. I was in heaven.

Paracetamol has a very low LD50:ED50 ratio, as low as 10:1, which makes it a very dangerous drug indeed. The only other class of street drugs I can think of with a ratio lower than that are barbiturates.

Foxxx will be able to correct me on this (and the note below I suspect)

Note:What is an LD50:ED50 ratio?LD50 is a much maligned test of lethality in toxicology and represents the dose at which 50% of rats injected with a given substance, die.

The ED50 is just the same except it measures the dose at which 50% of the rats wig out (show measurable effects without dying).

If you compare the two dosages you end up with the LD50:ED50 ratio - essentially the difference between a 'safe' dose and a 'dangerous' one.

This is a pretty crude method of determining the actual safety of a given substance, but as a comparison between different drugs it is quite a useful tool.

The real utility of the ratio is that most substances have been tested for both LD50 and ED50 making comparisons fairly straightforward.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
[B]Paracetamol has a very low LD50:ED50 ratio, as low as 10:1, which makes it a very dangerous drug indeed. The only other class of street drugs I can think of with a ratio lower than that are barbiturates.


If I recall correctly the LD50/ED50 for alcohol is extremely low - something like 1:3. (I bottle of whisky (say) would get you very smashed 3 bottles would kill you). It's sufficently low that if alcohol was invented today there is no way it would be legalised.

Nomme

Originally posted by nommedenet
If I recall correctly the LD50/ED50 for alcohol is extremely low - something like 1:3. (I bottle of whisky (say) would get you very smashed 3 bottles would kill you). It's sufficently low that if alcohol was invented today there is no way it would be legalised.

Nomme

The LD50:ED50 ratio for LSD is of the order of 16,000:1

So, to put it crudely, Alcohol is about 5000 times more biologically toxic than LSD - who'da thunk it?

Originally posted by nommedenet
If I recall correctly the LD50/ED50 for alcohol is extremely low - something like 1:3. (I bottle of whisky (say) would get you very smashed 3 bottles would kill you). It's sufficently low that if alcohol was invented today there is no way it would be legalised.

Nomme

Yup - but since it's been around a while and it's taxed the government are more than happy to let people keep drinking it :rolleyes:

Well of course it is taxed!

Alcohol and Tobacco cost our National Health Service a massive fortune

Heart disease, liver failure, lung cancer, hepatitis, kidney failure, obesity....all sorts of things have to be treated

Of course the purveyors and users of alcohol and tobacco should pay through the nose, it is to offset the costs they will incur at a later date

Makes sense to me (and I use both drugs)

Yes but the point is that the government reckon they have our best interests at heart they prevent us from taking 'illegal' drugs as they are dangerous. Alcohol is far more toxic than many 'illegal' drugs, do they ban us from taking it? No because it is taxed and they make one hell of a tidy sum from it. People are going to take drugs whatever the law says so why not allow people the choice with making them all legal and taxing them? You cut the crime rate drastically (someone who smokes the odd joint or does the odd pill is no longer breaking the law) and people don't have to worry about their drugs being cut with anything else as the supply could be controlled.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
People are going to take drugs whatever the law says so why not allow people the choice by making them all legal and taxing them?

I think we have had this discussion before, but there is merit in what you say, certainly.

It would be beneficial to the crime figures which is why most people fancy the idea, and fantastically good for the economy.

The real reason it hasnt happened is because the Home Secretary who suggested it, and his Party, would lose the next General Election because voters on the "right" of the spectrum would never countenance it.

For many voters, taking drugs is a very serious terrible awful thing to do, and not just because it is illegal

A bit of a dichotomy really (or however you spell it), democracy isnt always the best way because it depends on popular opinion, and frankly, it is often over-rated. It was popular opinion that kept Cilla Black on TV for so long for instance, I rest my case


;)

Originally posted by Belle
It was popular opinion that kept Cilla Black on TV for so long for instance, I rest my case
;)

Ho ho ho.:D

It does seem though that more and more of the country are realising that the current drugs policy is absolutely ridiculous. Take the reclassification of cannabis for example - all the polls I have seen have been in favour of this move. 20 years ago I very much doubt that would have been the case.

As for people who think all drugs are 'wrong' illegal or not really need to educate themselves more. There aren't many people I know (probably none to be honest) that don't consume some type of drug every day of their lives...

Good point! I could make my opinions known, but they've already been covered above, i feel - Most things aren't that bad if dealt with with properly, knowledgeably, and in moderation; and they should legalise everything, so that it can be controlled, classified, taxed and purified!!!

Then if people want to 'harm' themselves it's up to them, and it won't be from all the 'filler' material dealers put in things to increase profits (i.e. cat litter, paracetamol, laxatives, chalk dust, etc...)

:thumbsup: