About the new 'crop' of city centre flats springing up in and around Sheffield - such as West One, Royal Plaza, West Point, and even those in Hunters Bar - any ill feeling? mixed emotion? or uncertainty towards them and thier implications???

Do you believe there is favouritism towards such developments, the shops and services that surround them (eg endless wine bars & narcissistic clothes/ furniture shops) and the general niche market of residents that the developers are wanting to attract- i.e. rich, successful, 'cultured' and consumer orientated professionals? Or does the city-living lifestyle suit you down to the ground

What about other people's interests and lifestyles??

I am looking for a slant on peoples' attitudes towards the developments from people who have known the area for a while, people who actually live in the apartments (any recent development in the city centre included) to students and people who may frequent the West One services but who don't live there.

Maybe I'm being pedantic, please tell me different. The developments are re-generating the area and bringing much needed investment - but in whose interests??

Post your comments, speak your mind, and I might even want to interview You if what you've got to say is relevant enough.

Please, you must have a view-point.

Thanks,

Mags

Oooo, you do sound bitter from your post.

The developers are just private companies trying to make a difference - high risk, high reward! Social engineering is down to Local and Central Government, and I dont see them rushing to invest in any city centre property.

Originally posted by Mags 23
any ill feeling? mixed emotion? or uncertainty towards them and thier implications???

I find it hard to harbour ill feelings against a building and I don't feel that they have any implications other than providing a pleasant place to live.

Are you p*ssed-off about the favouritism towards such developments, the shops and services that surround them (eg endless wine bars & narcissistic clothes/ furniture shops) and the general niche market of residents that the developers are wanting to attract- i.e. rich, successful, 'cultured' and consumer orientated professionals.

Yes, I'm totally p*ssed off, how dare people build shops and services in an area that they will be widely used and appreciated. Much better that they build them in some backwater.

What about other people's interests and lifestyles??

What about them indeed? Sheffield is a big place you know.

Maybe I'm being harsh, please tell me different. The developments are re-generating the area and bringing much needed investment - but in whose interests??

Not yours, hence you being harsh?

What is wrong with building shops and homes for people who like that particular style? We don't all shop in Poundstretcher and TK Maxx you know.

Just trying to get some opinions on the matter.

Its not "just a building", its the lifestyle its promoting (not that that's all bad).

Come to West One, drink and dine in your own suave shops - served by students and workers, who may work there for a living, but who can in no way muster the £150,000 - £200,000 for one of the flats, unless very privaleged.

Why should these apartments be soley for the exclusive and advantaged individual. Are their any social/ council subsidised apartments in the development? - I think not!!

What will that mean for those underprivaleged groups?

Think about it, who's being excluded? and who's making the quick buck??

I don't think that you will find that anyone is being excluded. If you can afford to live there then that's great. If you can't then you can still partake in the lifestyle for the price of a night out. Hmmm, not bad value when you think about it like that eh? We can't all have the same things - life isn't like that.

Thats true Alch and if you can afford to shop at these places then why not.
We each live to our means wether rich or poor and i cannot see Sheffield becoming a City for the yuppies.Sheffields to big for that and we all still have plenty of places in Sheffield to shop.
Why pay designer prices for a shirt when you can get a shirt of simular quality from Meadowhall.
Re the appartments i would not pay the asking price for one and personally would'nt live in them rent free because living in the town centre has no appeal.
I would spend my money on a green belt property.

For the amount they cost I would much prefer to live in a nice house in a posh suburb. All these apartments are are glorified tower block flats with modern decor. They are still located in and around the city centre so are more affected by crime. They are over priced to appeal to people stupid enough to buy them. In a few years time, the over inflated prices will slump, once city living is out of fashion, and the buyers will find themselves in a state of negative equity. If you really want to spend over the odds prices to live in an industrial city centre then thats fine. Just don't cry when the prices slump and you try to move from your worthless tower block flat.

But you can't get a nice house in a posh suburb for around £120k, which is around the average price of an apartment. That's why people are buying them.

Originally posted by Tony
But you can't get a nice house in a posh suburb for around £120k, which is around the average price of an apartment. That's why people are buying them.

Someone stated in this thread £150k - £200k, which is enough for a 3 bed house in the nicer suburbs of Sheffield.

I'm just sitting, waiting for the bottom to fall out of these "lifestyle" ticky tacky boxes. Then I'm waiting for the bleating as the "service charge" scandals emerge over time. Then there'll be bigger gates and more efficient camera entries and security guards. Then thousand pound parking spaces.
The developers will be long gone to their isolated Andalusian fincas...

Originally posted by t020
Someone stated in this thread £150k - £200k, which is enough for a 3 bed house in the nicer suburbs of Sheffield.

I have to aggree that these appartments will loose there appeal in time may it be 5 years or 30 years.
Its all a matter of time.
lthough some people that have bought these apartments are Sheffield business men who don't actually live in them but offer them to clients to save stopping in a hotel when they come here to visit.

Originally posted by Mags 23
Come to West One, drink and dine in your own suave shops - served by students and workers, who may work there for a living, but who can in no way muster the £150,000 - £200,000 for one of the flats, unless very privaleged.

and Will.... name me one person you know who lives in a deprived area/ estate who appreciates drinks and clothes at ridiculous prices?

I was brought up on the Badger. I could sell my house in Manchester and could get one of these flats. I'm not on an outrageous wage or a snob. I've worked hard for my money and had no handouts along the way.

Since when has it been down to class as to decide who can appreciate fine drink? Enjoying a nice claret should be available to everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of wine drinkers who live in council houses.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Since when has it been down to class as to decide who can appreciate fine drink? Enjoying a nice claret should be available to everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of wine drinkers who live in council houses.

And plenty of alchoholics on cheap vodka in Fulwood, Dore and Ecclesall.

8) Nah Den Ace.......

Originally posted by Tony
And plenty of alchoholics on cheap vodka in Fulwood, Dore and Ecclesall.

Alcohol doesn't discriminate!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace.......



Alcohol doesn't discriminate!

Regards,

Spacehopper.
Maybe it just doesn't discriminate in Fulwood, Dore & Ecclesall?

Originally posted by Tony
Maybe it just doesn't discriminate in Fulwood, Dore & Ecclesall?

Pathetic cheap shots. I will rise above it.

I live in one of the "city living apartments", been here two years - and I didn't pay £120K for it!

It suits my lifestyle - I work some odd hours, and I don't do gardening. I can't see the point of mowign a lawn I don't have time to sit on!

I can get to work in ten minutes drive (so I am not causing too much traffic congestion). I can go out in town without having to worry about a taxi home.

And isn't there some policy to encourage new housing on brown field sites to save buildign new homes on green land?

Whilst I have not surveyed my neighbours, I don't think they are all yuppies. In fact, I would hazard a guess that some of them are students working in some of the wine bars in other city centre developments - maybe mummy & daddy bought them a flat to live in whilst they are in Sheffield?

I can't see what your big problem is!

Originally posted by alchresearch
Since when has it been down to class as to decide who can appreciate fine drink? Enjoying a nice claret should be available to everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of wine drinkers who live in council houses.

That wasn't what I was getting at... I was replying to another respondant who said that he had no feelings for West One (or city living as a concept) because it was only a buliding.

I was saying that that it goes deeper than that and while Sheffield is a big place (as the person said and thus it doesn't matter), why should some groups be marginalised to council estates while others can dictate what kind of shops and bars are established for the general public in a central area, where all social groups meet?

I'm sure there are quite a few people on lower incomes who'd like to live there (West One) but can't.

Go to the Netherlands and they mix the lower 'classes' with the more sucessful - the result a less divided society housing wise and house prices aren't going through the roof!! (different matter altogether)

I'm not a sadist and do have good things to say about these flats.

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
I can't see what your big problem is!

I'm just interested what people think about it...I havn't got a problem with people who live there.

Originally posted by Mags 23
I'm sure there are quite a few people on lower incomes who'd like to live there (West One) but can't.

That's life - I'd like to live many other places than I do now but I can't because I can't afford it. I'll work towards it and then in a few years hopefully I'll be able to emmigrate or something. What do you expect - the housing company to give away the properties for free?!?!?!

I don't think that it's really about forcing integration and I cannot see how these developments will suffer from the problems that 'social housing' has, simply because the people who own them and live there have a vested interest in their success. This can be seen all over the rest of the world where apartment living is the norm, not the exception. What will probably happen is that people will not buy their own home as young, and will rent until they are in their 30's. Again, this is the norm everywhere else. Many of those that do buy early will have to buy in what are now seen as 'worse areas' which in turn will improve those areas.

I think these new developments are a good thing. They may not be to everyone’s taste but that's what the other places outside the city center are for.
Going on what I've read; the council and other relevant parties do seem to be trying to get Sheffield looking better and more appealing to business.

I agree with Chri5. Young trendies with cash to burn and students (with cash to singe) do contribute a lot to the local economy - witness how quiet the city centre was during summer.

If they have more money than sense, that's their problem.

I feel I need to participate in this debate as I live in one of these flats, but I just can't get excited about it.

Basically I live in Royal Plaza and it's cool. It's certainly not the nicest place I've ever lived and they do seem to be a tad expensive for Sheffield, but the modern funky urban vibe which surrounds them can only be good for the city. If I wasn't living in Royal Plaza (and come March next year I will be moving out) I'd still be going to Revolution or Iguanas in West One, and hanging out at The Forum and The Green Room, because I like those places. It just means that I'll have to take a taxi or the supertram at the end of the night. No big deal - and everyone who lives in Sheffield can do the same. I hope the new developments continue to stimulate the nightlife and retail sector in Sheffield.

What are the negative people here afraid of? That the bouncers won't let them in Revolution or The Forum? Or is it just an envy thing? I.e. are you jealous in some way of the people who live here and have all the West End nightlife on their doorstep? (tell you what, it ain't *all* good - especially in the summer when your window's open and you want some sleep and the two-am very drunk shouters/screamers/singers go past your flat!)

Zeddy

West One has always reminded me of Kelvin. Obviously built for different reasons but it's got that pack as many people in to a ridiculously large building look that Kelvin had.

I hope it doesn't go the same way in 30 years time.

V

The whole point should be that these developments attract interest and investment to the city. Once we have that investment and interest, we must keep developing and shouldn't rest on our 2003 laurels. If we did, yes all this would look very dated in 2040.

But once the money is here and people keep being excited by the novel, then lets make sure that development and innovation is continuous. We musn't be content with being cool in 200x, we've got to make sure that our city centre is still cutting edge in 201x, 202x, and 203x. If we do this then we have nothing to fear.

On a slightly different note, I don't live in West One, but I do live in city centre flats... My flat is only worth about £70,000 at most as I'm in Council tax band A... but it's still very posh, and of a standard of the West One developments (as I looked at both before taking up my contract).

I really love the location, but you get a lot of street noise - especially from buses, trams and drunken ******s (usually cheered on by their equally drunk other halves, I might add!!)

As a non-native, I am impressed by these sorts of developments in terms of aesthetics - I'm a sucker for clean lines and shiny bits. But in terms of living in somewhere like West:One, no thanks. The real value of these places is much lower than the prices they attract, and the disparity between the two will surely come to the fore in years to come. Add to that the drunken yobs and the lack of space...

Originally posted by alchresearch
What is wrong with building shops and homes for people who like that particular style? We don't all shop in Poundstretcher and TK Maxx you know.

Hmm. Don't assume that simply because you drink exotic vodka shots in Revolution, or buy wine at £3.50 a glass that you've got class. The trouble is with a lot of these places that they are ALL style and precious little content (Antibo?)

:mad: Oi! I live above TK Maxx thank you alch!!! ;)

Do you think that these apartments will reduce significantly in value?

Originally posted by Funky Dave
Do you think that these apartments will reduce significantly in value?


Definitely. City centre living is a fashion/trend. Fashions come and go. Once the fashion is gone, there will be less demand for these 'apartments' (euphemism for flats). People who have bought into these developments will regret it.

Sorry T020, I cannot agree with you there. City centre livign is here to stay. There is a chronic shortage of housing in this country, and very few suburban homes are being built nowadays. People have to live somewhere, and cities are the place that they do it everywhere else.

How high can "service charges" go?

Originally posted by Tony
Sorry T020, I cannot agree with you there. City centre livign is here to stay. There is a chronic shortage of housing in this country, and very few suburban homes are being built nowadays. People have to live somewhere, and cities are the place that they do it everywhere else.

Agreed

Originally posted by Funky Dave
Do you think that these apartments will reduce significantly in value?

I don't think so. There are many advantages to living in the city center, yes the noise maybe a problem for some but you pay your money and make your choice.

The prices will level out. Don't know when but surely when the prices approach the cost of renting people will have to say enough is enough.

If there is a significant reduction in value of these properties it will probably be due to an overall reduction in house prices cause by some crash in the market. But this may happen at anytime!

I've heard that you don't actually buy the flat (West 1) to own, but a 125 year lease. Is that right?

The development at the bottom of eccesall road is horrible. If u go for the penthouse suite you get a view of the council flats straight opposite. Plus there is an EDS building right next to the flats not much privacy.

most of the flats are on a 125 year lease

Originally posted by Tony
Sorry T020, I cannot agree with you there. City centre livign is here to stay. There is a chronic shortage of housing in this country, and very few suburban homes are being built nowadays. People have to live somewhere, and cities are the place that they do it everywhere else.

It all depends on how the city develops. If one sector of the city falls out of style and begins to slowly get abandoned, then prices will surely drop.

Business property is probably not the same thing, but look at the Moor, or even the precinct beside the Markets (where Mace's is / was). In the 70's and 80's it was a prime retail location and every shop was occupied. Now the area is dead and leases are going to be at rock bottom prices to encourage companies to set up there.

Our capital city is full of apartments and they all sell well, they keep their price, they are popular, they are the answer to the problem of lack of room for new build.

I personally wouldnt fancy one now, at my advanced age, but might have loved to live in a trendy bit of a trendy city centre when I was in my 20s for instance.

In the same way that dockside developments are keeping their price, so will our West Ones and Royal Plazas etc

We cant all live in a posh house with a big garden in Ecclesall, there simply arent enough to go round, not without building granny flats in the garden anyway, and any planning applications are always vociferously objected to, you only have to read the Star to see that.

I always appreciate the building of social housing, I want to see lots of it, but I also want to somewhere for young fashionable folk with cash to live, otherwise they will take themselves, their talents and their energies off to Leeds or Manchester or Liverpool and that would be bad news for Sheffield.

If you want conformity, everyone with the same house and the same car on the same income etc, I give you Communist East Germany, but dont forget, they did have to pull the wall down in the end because it wasnt working.

Originally posted by Belle
...I also want to somewhere for young fashionable folk with cash to live, otherwise they will take themselves, their talents and their energies off to Leeds or Manchester or Liverpool and that would be bad news for Sheffield.
Good point :thumbsup:

City centre living is only new to Sheffield - it's been around for years in other more "developed" cities in England. In the end of the day it comes down to people not liking change. As someone else said, most of these areas where flats have been built were waste land before. Surely it's better to have flats full of "yuppies" (paying high council tax) than inner-city shrub land full of needles? :P

Originally posted by Hodge
I've heard that you don't actually buy the flat (West 1) to own, but a 125 year lease. Is that right?
The likelhood of these poorly built buildings (in comparison to some of the Victorian flats in central London) being around in 50 years time (let alone 125 years) means you are basically buying the flat for its life-time ;)

8) Nah Den Ace...........

Originally posted by Geoff
Good point :thumbsup:

City centre living is only new to Sheffield - it's been around for years in other more "developed" cities in England. In the end of the day it comes down to people not liking change. As someone else said, most of these areas where flats have been built were waste land before. Surely it's better to have flats full of "yuppies" (paying high council tax) than inner-city shrub land full of needles? :P

Time and time again, council planners, architects and city lubbers are blinded by the bright lights and concrete of the city!!!

First we had the back to back slums. Then we demolished these for pavements in the sky in the 1960s..........where are they now? Kelvin, Broomhall, (most of) Hyde Park gone; Park Hill's still here only because it got listed!

LEARN FROM THESE MISTAKES!!!

OK, so these are swanky "posh" new "appartments"!!!! These are for your young exec types (for want of a better word "yuppies"!!!) At a guess yuppies, with a few sheckles in their pocket, will get fed up and move away from the overcrowding, noise, pollution, crime, etc a lot quicker than the previous city inhabitants because they have got the money to do so.........ie they have the choice!

I've already read articles in the Star of people regretting that they had bought properties at West One..........it'll end in tears!

I remember, two years ago (approx) walking up Trippet Lane; I was "admiring" the new identikit pods and wondering what that was all about? A builder, with yellow jacket and hard hat, came accross the road from the sarny shop. I had a quick chat with him and his advice was............"don't buy one of these - they are crap!"

So..........the upshot is............in 10 (I'm being optimistic!) years time, when the wannabe international bright young things have all gone back to their leafy suburbs...........there will be a post on here complaining about the crime-riddled inner-city "appartments" and that it is a breeding pool for all the drug-riddled "scum"..........how on earth has it got a listed status......blah, blah, blah, etc, etc!!!!!

City centres are for working in, entertainment/nightlife and shopping.............suburbia is for nest building.........get the two confused and you are f*****!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

P.S. Now give me back "The Domino" you b*st*rds!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well it works and has lasted in just about every other decent sized city around so can't see why it won't here as well. Yes people do tend to move out to the suburbs when they find a partner and want to settle down with a family but there's always more youngsters to move in. It just means they will have a higher turnover than properties in the suburbs.

Spacehopper,

I think you must have a very poor grasp of the dynamics of urban life if you truly believe what you just posted.

The city centre has been dying on it feet for the last decade and we are only just seeing life return. City living is one of the crucial i components of regeneration. Very very basic urban geography tells us that the physical and social material of a city is greatly improved by the inward migration of high income individuals.

Of course, we do not want to create yuppie ghettos, but as you mention we already have a range of socio-economic groups scattered around the periphery of the centre. This mix of residents can only add to the vibrancy of the area providing the impetus for developers to invest money in new retail outlets, recreation facilities and commercial ventures. An addtional spin off is that transport infrastructure tends to also improve (often developers are required to improve transport links before they are granted full permission).

The alternative is to return to the early nineties, to not dare set foot in the city after dark, to have to travel to meadowhall to shop and to find ourselves working in remote, out of town industrial estates.

I know which option I prefer.

M

Been reading all the replies and I'm glad to see a mixed bag of responses about this city living issue.

Some commentators who write about city-living for a living, believe that such gentrification movements ( i.e. movement back to city), such as those happening in Sheffield, are a result of demands for such property usually because the economy is becoming more service based, affluent and mobile people want the lifestyle. In a general sense there is a long-term demand and need for central city living.

Has Sheffield seen such a radical change in its service and professional industries? i.e. after the decline of steel manufacturing (numbers employes NOT output of steel), hopefully which everyone will agree was Sheffield's "bread and butter" 50 or so years ago, has Sheffield seen any major investors in its economy??

Please tell me if I'm wrong as I'm not a specialist in this area!

For example, Nottingham has had Capital One (up to 6,000+ new jobs with more on the way), Manchester and Leeds see big London based Law and Insurance companies investing in them. What has Sheffield had, investment-wise, to this same extent to warrant such big investment in the city centre?? (Apart from maybe it needed a face-lift!!)

My question is, as spacehopper suggested.... So..........the upshot is............in 10 (I'm being optimistic!) years time, when the wannabe international bright young things have all gone back to their leafy suburbs...........there will be a post on here complaining about the crime-riddled inner-city "appartments" and that it is a breeding pool for all the drug-riddled "scum"..........how on earth has it got a listed status......blah, blah, blah, etc, etc!!!!!

.....will these developments still attract the people in 10 years time that will be needed to sustain and warrant their survival. & Is there enough business investment being pumped into Sheffield e.g. the big firms that provide the big players who buy these 'apartments' - to keep this trend on course?????

What d'ya think??????

It's not really about one thing or the other - business or apartments. Regeneration is an ongoing organic process that never really starts or ends. You just have to satisfy yourself that we happen to be at this particular moment in time in Sheffield's history.

All those people moaning about living in the city in 2003 would probably be the ones moaning about all these new fangled semi-detached houses being built on the farmland on the edge of town in the 1930's!

Things change and move on all the time. There aren't really any mistakes, just ideas being tested. Some work well, some not so well.

Been off the boards for a couple of weeks so i've only just noticed this tread.
Fristly,can i please dispel the myth that you have to a rich "yuppie" to live in one of the city center developments.I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination,i earn quite a bit less than the natinal average wage,i'm just a dumb ass welder,yet i live in a very nice penthouse apartment.
I'm lead to belive my apartment is is worth a touch over 200k.Do i think its worth that?? Not really.Would i pay that much for it?? No i wouldn't,bit thats its market value and the reason its that much is because people want to live here,its gone up around 35k-40k since this time last year.
i can't understand where peoples negative attitudes towards city center living comes from,the idea of living in a quiet suburb really doesn't appeal to me at this point in time,but i don't have anything against the people who do want to live there.Its already been pointed out in posts on this thread already that city center living has worked in other cities,and its here to stay in Sheffield as well,these points about them turning into squalid drug infested tower blocks is just lunacy.
The money these developments attract to sheffield can only be a good thing.The amount of people i see out during the week in the town center makes Sheffield feel a much more vibirant place.
These development are helping sheffield become a much more attractive place to live,and you can't tell me thats a bad thing.

Mags,

There are all sorts of factors that have encouraged the rise of city living, some of which you mention. I agree that to an extent these sorts of developments feed off, sometimes bloated, aspirations to be part of an urban gliteratti, and that without a solid underpinning of high employment sustainability may be a problem. However, if we look at these developments purely on an economic basis, we must consider the entire city in the same way. If there is another economic downturn we will see impacts on every level of society, this is the risk of living in a market economy.

The wider contribution to the wealth of the city that we see from such developments, even in the short term, is worth such associated risks.

M

Originally posted by Mags 23

Has Sheffield seen such a radical change in its service and professional industries? i.e. after the decline of steel manufacturing (numbers employes NOT output of steel), hopefully which everyone will agree was Sheffield's "bread and butter" 50 or so years ago, has Sheffield seen any major investors in its economy??


I think you will find quite a few significant investments in Sheffield over the years that have shifted the Sheffield economy away from reliance on steel to other types of jobs. Looking out of my window in my City Centre apartment I can see huge offices for HSBC (despite the fact that some of these jobs may eb going to India) and Norwich Union (who now employ hundreds of people here). If I lean out a bit (without falling) there are major government offices (MSC, or whatever it is now called), Home Office, etc. There is the cultural industries quarter, where lots of people work. The many computer gaming companies. Things are changing!

Tony - I don't know why you're so sure that the trend of city centre apartment living will never end. It might be what all the celebs are doing and shown in the stupid magazines at the moment, depicted as a 'sexy, young' way to live, but it is a fact that trends change. Who's to say that in 10 years time city living will be so fashionable? Making the biggest investment of your life in a fad is a very big mistake.

It's not a case of it '"never ending". It's a simple case of macro land economics. If I remember correctly there are around 40% more households now than 20 years ago. The planning legislation does not permit developments of many new suburbs on green countryside like Ecclesall was not very long ago. Read my earlier posts for a little more info on that. It's not about being trendy either. More numerous and smaller households require more plentiful and denser housing, and that equals apartments. Alternatively I suppose that we could develop even more apartments in Ecclesall, Dore and Fulwood.

In all seriousness, where do you suggest that these people live?

Originally posted by Tony
It's not a case of it '"never ending". It's a simple case of macro land economics. If I remember correctly there are around 40% more households now than 20 years ago. The planning legislation does not permit developments of many new suburbs on green countryside like Ecclesall was not very long ago. Read my earlier posts for a little more info on that. It's not about being trendy either. More numerous and smaller households require more plentiful and denser housing, and that equals apartments. Alternatively I suppose that we could develop even more apartments in Ecclesall, Dore and Fulwood.

In all seriousness, where do you suggest that these people live?

Wherever they want to live. I just think if they buy these so called 'luxury' (questionable) apartments now, they will regret it when the bubble bursts and they are left out of pocket. I couldn't really care less though, its not my money, and I would never be silly enough to spend up to £200k on a glorified flat that is also near tower block council flats, just because they have been marketed in a certain way.

So who are you to say that it is silly? What do you really know eh? It's just your own opinion, and there seem to be more people in disagreement with you than in support. Including people who can afford £200k for a "glorified flat". Maybe they like them in the way that you like that Porche in your avatar. Do you have a Porche, 'cos they have the flats?

They do seem to be well over priced and i,m sure they will loose there appeal in time which is what would be the main thing to worry me had i bought one.
Its certainly the marketing that has put the price tag on them and the magazines are full of trendy apartments and fancy furniture to match.
All looks well in a magazine but in reality its not so glossy.
Give me a nice house anyday and it don't matter if it has if it has a garden or not.

Originally posted by Tony
So who are you to say that it is silly? What do you really know eh? It's just your own opinion, and there seem to be more people in disagreement with you than in support. Including people who can afford £200k for a "glorified flat". Maybe they like them in the way that you like that Porche in your avatar. Do you have a Porche, 'cos they have the flats?

Quote me on this issue in 10 years time. Also, if you look throughout, I'd say its at least 50/50 in terms of peoples opinions for and against these FLATS. People that buy these are the type that Marketing departments must dream about. So gullible, so influenced by celebrity culture and the press, and so easy to manipulate. Almost pitiful really.

But have you got a Porche?

Originally posted by Tony
But have you got a Porche?

No and I don't have a Porsche either. I'm 21, and a student. Its something to aspire to, unless I puchase any lucky lottery tickets.

Originally posted by t020
No and I don't have a Porsche either. I'm 21, and a student. Its something to aspire to, unless I puchase any lucky lottery tickets.
So you aren't one of the people who are...and I quote from you "So gullible, so influenced by celebrity culture and the press, and so easy to manipulate. Almost pitiful really." ????

If you actually had a Porsche you could be forgiven ... but you don't even have one! Hmm, like I said before - these people at least have flats in these new developments that you so vehemently despise, which incidently will always be worth more than they paid... unlike your Porsche that you are going to buy when you win the lottery! :loopy:

At 21 I had been working 3 years, was studying 15 hours a week in the Poly + home study (they called that part time then) and saving for my first house that I bought a year later.

Take a day off, chill and reflect mate.

Originally posted by t020
Wherever they want to live. I just think if they buy these so called 'luxury' (questionable) apartments now, they will regret it when the bubble bursts and they are left out of pocket. I couldn't really care less though, its not my money, and I would never be silly enough to spend up to £200k on a glorified flat that is also near tower block council flats, just because they have been marketed in a certain way.
But if the macro economics are correct (and all the evidence says they are) then there is nowhere (much) else to live. Factor in vested interests, ongoing financial stability, better social mixes, changing demographics, increased job and education opportunities, etc, etc, then city living is here to stay for the forseeable future. Come on lad, get a little consistancy of thought through your argument.

Originally posted by t020
Quote me on this issue in 10 years time. Also, if you look throughout, I'd say its at least 50/50 in terms of peoples opinions for and against these FLATS. People that buy these are the type that Marketing departments must dream about. So gullible, so influenced by celebrity culture and the press, and so easy to manipulate. Almost pitiful really.

How's about - shock horror some people actually like the flats??!! Maybe the fact they are in the middle of town and probably close to work with great access to shops, pubs, restaurants is appealing to some people?? Add to that the point there is no garden to look after and for a busy person the property seems even more appealing. Different people have different requirements.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
How's about - shock horror some people actually like the flats??!! Maybe the fact they are in the middle of town and probably close to work with great access to shops, pubs, restaurants is appealing to some people?? Add to that the point there is no garden to look after and for a busy person the property seems even more appealing. Different people have different requirements.

Well said...

I've just bought one and can't wait to move in. I've lived in the suburbs all my life and with an hour and half travel time stuck in traffic everyday from my current home, soon I'll be walking to work (10 minutes) Along with a few more advantages which have been listed in earlier posts.

Lets just agree to say that the flats are a good thing for the city centre - bringing in jobs, homes (for those who like an want them) and entertainment outlets.

But, they are not a guaranteed investment.

And they are not for everybody, but the people who they are for are not nessesarily stupid people, making a huge mistake.

Another slant on this argument is the opinion that living close to work is a good thing. I'm not sure it is. I personally wouldn't want to live so close to work as it would feel that I was living purely for the job. An average commute gives some distance, mentally as well as physically, and separates the 2 different aspects of life. This is my opinion, just the same as those who like these flats have their opinion. One thing thats slightly more factual however is the fact that these flats are built quickly with poor build quality so the companies can increase their profits. These flats will be looking shabby within a generation, by which time their value will have plummeted regardless of whether or not city centre living is still en vogue.

If people are stupid enough to be suckered in with a bit of chrome and have a self image which resides from the covers of a magazine then leave em to it LOL

As a youth trying to find somewhere to live I tried to avoid being pushed into a high rise. I guess it's a sign of the times. No longer do they have to force people into them just sell them some spin and they will move in of their own accord.

Mugs


Oh well at least some housing assosiation can buy them up in ten years and let them out to people who can't get a mortgage.

Originally posted by t020
Another slant on this argument is the opinion that living close to work is a good thing. I'm not sure it is. I personally wouldn't want to live so close to work as it would feel that I was living purely for the job. An average commute gives some distance, mentally as well as physically, and separates the 2 different aspects of life. This is my opinion, just the same as those who like these flats have their opinion. One thing thats slightly more factual however is the fact that these flats are built quickly with poor build quality so the companies can increase their profits. These flats will be looking shabby within a generation, by which time their value will have plummeted regardless of whether or not city centre living is still en vogue.
T020, when you have a job you can spout off about these things. In the meantime, while you are a young student, with little life experience, and while you needlessly add to the congestion that people are partly trying to avoid you should keep your pipe n slippers on and respect other peoples views. Lots of people want to buy 'em, the quality is not what you think, and the lifestyle really is quite appealling for lots of us that dont have premature aging.

Originally posted by t020
Another slant on this argument is the opinion that living close to work is a good thing. I'm not sure it is. I personally wouldn't want to live so close to work as it would feel that I was living purely for the job. An average commute gives some distance, mentally as well as physically, and separates the 2 different aspects of life. This is my opinion, just the same as those who like these flats have their opinion. One thing thats slightly more factual however is the fact that these flats are built quickly with poor build quality so the companies can increase their profits. These flats will be looking shabby within a generation, by which time their value will have plummeted regardless of whether or not city centre living is still en vogue.

It all depends. I live five minutes from work and love the fact that I am so close. I can get up much later than many others and enjoy the feeling that I can be home in moments and enjoy time that would otherwise be spent in traffic.

I agree, I live on the Glossop road right next to the University and enjoy getting up for lectures half an hour after everyone else has to. Forget the mental and physical distance...give me extra sleeping time every time.

Having changed from a situation where I used to commute for 2 hours by train to one where I walk to work in 20 minutes, I can safely say that living close to your job is an advantage!

There's:

Little or no transport costs.
More time to spend at home, going out, or with family
If you need to work late you know you can go home for a break if necessary, and still have time to do your work.
If you work late you know it'll take you only a little time to get home, and you don't have to worry about last trains / buses, etc.

I live in the Royal Plaza.

So why did I buy a flat/apartment here?


A five minute walk to work;

close to the pubs and shops;

no garden (which I never used in the house I had been renting);

for the energy of the city centre after the quiet of the suburbs;

it's an investment - resale value is currently £50,000 more than I paid for it;

I am from Manchester and have no family or history in Sheffield - I would rather not live somewhere it takes years to be accepted as a local;

because I have seen what happened to the Castlefield area of Manchester and hope that the same can occur here.


Some thoughts on the comments of others:

So what if there is no social housing? Sheffield is not London - there is plenty of cheap property within a few miles of the centre such that demands that Royal Plaza or West One should have contained social housing are clearly politically inspired rather than being based on local economic necessity.

This area of the city is changing and that is a good thing because cities are living things and must grow and adapt. New people move into areas and then those areas change to meet those people's needs. But those changes often are good for people living outside of that area. Are people really arguing that Sheffield can be a prosperous modern city without parts of it's shopping centre catering for those on higher incomes?

Yes there is a possibilty that these buildings may not be looking their best in 25-50 years. Certainly they will require money spending on them to ensure they continue to be attractive places to live or they will fade. But that is way of things with buildings - they start off as trendy or smart but they age and other buildings take their place as the place to live.

Having people live in the centre of the city has been the norm of human urban existence and I believe we are simply seeing a reversal of the flight to the suburbs caused by cars, trains and slum clearences. It won't simply go out of fashion. Cities are safer and have greater vitality when they are full of residents. The dull british city centre which emptied when the workers and shoppers went home is becoming history.

g

Why don't you just move into your place of work and have done with it?

Originally posted by wearetherobots
Why don't you just move into your place of work and have done with it?

Now you're just being silly.......

Originally posted by wearetherobots
Why don't you just move into your place of work and have done with it?

Would it make more sense to spend hours on the motorway everyday?

g

I think people would be better buying a 2 or 3 bedroom house just outside the city centre for half the price,
When i moved here i took a very big gamble buying an house on the Manor ( Fairleigh ), they are only just under 2yr old and i got it at a great price of £33,000 and was told i would lose money on it but now i will say it's the best move i have ever made!!
People always presume that the manor is real bad place but if you find the right area u will be ok i have never had 1 bit of trouble or suffered any crime and none of my neighbours have neither and i love it, i have all i need here like fast food places local shops and i'm only 2 mins away from the tram stop which is perfect but people still refuse to move to the area and i get stick about living here which i find real funny because they dont realise that it's a good area if u look right.

And my house is now worth £73,000.

Originally posted by wearetherobots
If people are stupid enough to be suckered in with a bit of chrome and have a self image which resides from the covers of a magazine then leave em to it LOL

As a youth trying to find somewhere to live I tried to avoid being pushed into a high rise. I guess it's a sign of the times. No longer do they have to force people into them just sell them some spin and they will move in of their own accord.

Mugs

Oh well at least some housing assosiation can buy them up in ten years and let them out to people who can't get a mortgage.

Right. I am very happy in my flat in the city centre. I can't get a mortgage yet, as I have too much student debt to pay off still, and the bank won't loan me the deposit. I spent over 6 months looking at other places to rent in sheffield, and whilst some of them were cheaper, most were over £350 per month anyway. The decision to move to a new, well fitted out apartment in the city centre has given me hours of joy - I want to go home at the end of work - and unparallelled access to everything I could possibly want - at most a 10 minute tram ride away. How can anyone who hasn't lived in one of these flats, who isn't between the age of 20 and 30 possibly comment on "what's the right thing to do"??? I stand by my choice and am slightly sick of people whinging about something they have little experience of...

Have you ever been to a *real* high rise block of flats? I think you'll find them very, very different...

I can't believe people are making such a fuss about where other people live. Some people want to live in the city centre - some don't - what's the problem?

My point exactly, I just wasn't very awake yet when I wrote the above, and couldn't contain my irritation!!! All happy now... :mrgreen:

"You bought a city centre apartment (FLAT)? I don't believe you wanted to do that. What you actually wanted to do is buy a house on the outskirts of Sheffield, have 2.4 kids, get dog and sit in traffic for 2 hours everyday, drive home ****** form the pub in your Vauxhall Vectra, pay £15 each way on taxis... just like me."

Serious i think the people who own these apartments are laughing right now. I know my landlord made over 50K in just over a year on his. You see people some people want to make money SHORT TERM. If you want to make 50k over 4 years, by all means buy a house in the burbs. If you don't want to wait, buy the city centre apartments before they are built and sell them after a year.

well... really the UDP should insist that the developers include a certain proportion of affordable housing in their developments as they do in london, then we'll see more affordable housing in the city center. demand for city center living in sheffield right now is embryonic, the market as at the same stage as it was in manchester in about 93. i know of a number of major projects that will change this and should cause a proper boom. what you see right now is only the beginning... visit leeds and you can see where sheffield is headed.

"I know of a number of major projects that will change this and should cause a proper boom"

What are these projects?

no comment, you can read about them in the press in time but they represent half a billion pounds worth of fresh investment into the area and are the most ambitious plans i have seen outside london.

publically people are now aware of the retail quarter and this development is separate to it. i see some poeple posted about chesham house here from my site... well publically there is a stream of developments around st marys gate but these arent what im talking about.

Keep an eye out for things happening just the other side of Broad Lane. It's full of 'ladies of the night' at the moment, but that is going to change by 2005/6. There are plans for a whole new urban village around Upper Allen St.