Anybody know who the police where escorting today. I saw about 4 cars and half a dozen motorbikes escorting 2 dark blue cars, came up Glossop Rd then headed down Clarkhouse Rd, be about 3pm this afternoon

I've seen that same convoy before also. Were the people in the dark blue car's wearing black and not standard police uniform?

Usuaully the dark blue cars seem empty so I don't think they are escourting personnel. Most likely money or something of a high value that needs moving to a safer place.

I was going to ask the same thing myself. Twice today I was on the parkway coming off the motorway, and each time I saw the same thing. Outriders, police cars with flashy lights and another dark car in the middle of it all.

WHO was it????

I saw about 8 police motorbikes, 5 cars and a landrover zoom past the Botanical Gardens about 3.20pm today. They had obviously turned all the traffic lights to 'go' en route because we were stuck for about 10 minutes at red waiting to turn into Clarkehouse Road while they all whizzed by. Intriguing!

it might be for the judges for sheffield crown court they always get a escort

I saw them coming from Ecclesall Rd and heading round the roundabout into the city centre just after 3pm. Was wondering who they were.

I also saw it this afternoon while walking down glossop road, although i have no idea what or who was in it so im not much help.

There was another forum thread a while ago on somthing similar. As was said then, this is all leading up to the Sheffield G8 JHA ministers meeting in June.

So another month of fun to go!

Saw then today too driving up past Crucible in town

Seems like they have been driving around in circles. Maybe it was a practise run!

maybe it was norty NAS being taken to prison :)

LOL

Originally posted by melthebell
maybe it was norty NAS being taken to prison :)

LOL

Not likely. Weren't the SYP told to let him speed as much as he likes after he complained about harrassment? Leave him be, he hasn't killed anyone..... YET! :rolleyes:

The police helicopter was VERY low over the bottom of Ecclesall Road at about 2.30. It was hovering near the yellow flats on the corner of Ecclesall Road/Hanover Way.

I saw a big convoy last week on my way into town too. The bus had just come to the bottom of City Road to go onto the Park Square roundabout (I think it's still City Road when it gets to that point) and a police bike pulled up in front stopping us from going on. Another bike was at the other exit to the right, but he rode up to our exit then the original one in front of us moved on to the next, sort of like a tag thing. Then I noticed a few police bikes coming round on the inside lane, followed by some cars and more bikes at the back, with police bikes and cars on the next lane to it. I don't know where they went, but I don't think I've seen the roundabout to empty lol

Cars had people in, thought might be blunkett but 10 police escort bikes !!!! - could only be Blair ? When is the G8 summit in sheff ?

G8 in Sheffield is 12-17 June.

Originally posted by Patchy
Not likely. Weren't the SYP told to let him speed as much as he likes after he complained about harrassment? Leave him be, he hasn't killed anyone..... YET! :rolleyes:
yeah right

would you like it to be somebody you know? when he does.only a matter of time

i work at the bottom of ecclesall road and was told by a colleague that it was indeed nas being taken down to court

Reminds me of when I used to work in Newcastle. Sometimes the A1M was closed as Durham is a high security prison.

I always found it rather, as Edna says, Spooky, does anyone else when they see what seemed to have happened in the above threads.

In that case, if there was nobody in the cars it was a practice run, leaving no stone unturned and possible alternatives:|

I think i've solved the question of where they are going.

They passed me on the M1 at Junc 28 this morning (on the hard shoulder).
I caught them up again on teh M42 and followed them into birmingham. They took the expressway while I took local roads. I could see the helicopter circle for a few minutes over the area that the courts are in before flying off.
So I guess they are going from doncatraz to birmingham crown court.

They must be carrying some seriously dangerous criminals!

When these convoys are circling town could it be to do with this G8 summit which runs 15-17 June? I heard something from my trade union that they might be planning to shut down the city centre from 5pm each evening while the whole shebang is on, and for those residents in the area where the bigwigs (including Condoleeza Rice) are staying, they might have to have ID cards to get home. Of course, it could be alarmist talk, but the fact is, there isn't much info about what security is planned, and there will obviously need to be plenty of it, so maybe they are indeed having practice runs?

Originally posted by Mathom
They must be carrying some seriously dangerous criminals!

When these convoys are circling town could it be to do with this G8 summit which runs 15-17 June? I heard something from my trade union that they might be planning to shut down the city centre from 5pm each evening while the whole shebang is on, and for those residents in the area where the bigwigs (including Condoleeza Rice) are staying, they might have to have ID cards to get home. Of course, it could be alarmist talk, but the fact is, there isn't much info about what security is planned, and there will obviously need to be plenty of it, so maybe they are indeed having practice runs?

The G8 Summit is in July, at the Gleneagles Hotel, Scotland.....

G8 JUSTICE & INTERIOR MINISTERS MEETING, 11th June 2005

Between June 15-17 G8 Interior and Justice Ministers will be meeting in Sheffield. Some of the loudest cheerleaders of the 'war on terror' will be meeting to disscuss its further prosecution and its impact at home. Sheffield Stop the War Coalition have called for a demonstration to take place on 11th June, to send a clear message that these people are not welcome here. Sheffield Palestine Solidarity Campaign and Sheffield Muslim Association of Britain have supported the call.

I mentioned in another thread that they have run a fibre optic cable up from abbeydale to the marriot hotel where they will all be...the cable was all laid out on empire/crescent road yesterday.

I saw them this am at about 11.30 going past the Miidland Station towards the bottom of Granville Rd, about 6 bikes and 2 police cars.

hazel

Just seem them Leaving Marriot Hotel, probably 20 bikes, 2 unmarked cars, probably bomb proof, with what looked like armed police in the front.

They stopped all traffic.

About 3:30.

I think someone's just having a laugh :D police got bored at work or summit!

I saw them too - glossop rd about 12.15 - all v mysterious

Gutted I'm away when the G8 thing is here in june :(

I was in the car to the rear, afteral, I am a very special prophet

I've been working in Doncaster (Cantley/Bessacarr) for the last week and have encounted a police convoy of around 10 bikes followed closely by an unmarked dark blue BMW 5 series with a Volvo traffic car about 2ft away from the beemers back bumper heading at speed towards Bawtry.

At last! I've now been privileged to see one of these "conveys". Was on my way to the wholesalers on Worthing Road at about 17.55 last night and just as I crossed City Road onto Bernard Street, there they were coming towards me - looking pretty impressive, have to say ...

Where do they get all these motorbike cops from? There were three coming at speed with their blues on obviously going to stop the traffic at the lights, then further back another two side by side in front of a white police car and then two dark limos black or navy blue and then another police car and another bike ... I wasn't able to see inside the limos though.

I bet that's all the police bikes in Sheffield, lol. Wonder how much this is costing us all via SYP ... and will we get the money back from Central Government? Still I bet they're all having fun ... got to be better than booking motorists for driving in the bus lane and getting loads of abuse :D

this is all practice runs I assume.

Originally posted by miss_berty

Gutted I'm away when the G8 thing is here in june :(


??? For any particular reason ???

The reason the ambassadors have so much protection is because they are so hated by so many.

I have the definitive answer, it has been staring all of us in the face :confused:

For the high profile escort:
All the various government ministers who are in anyway related to transportation, tourism & travel and all the directors of all the major airlines have been looking for a NEW LOCAL AIRPORT, somewhere close to the M18
The reason why they apparently keep going round and round in ever decreasing circles and are seen by various Sheffield Forum members is the road signs say one thing, the holiday brochures say another thing and to top it they have been told officially another.
Whats a person got to do :confused:
So I believe that "they" said right we will sort this out once and for all :clap:
See sense and and call it Doncaster Airport

Totley Tunnel had a very interesting reply from Peel Holdings who may or may not be responsible for the Police Traffic
============================================
Letter from Peel Holdings


RE: NAMING OF DONCASTER AIRPORT

Thank you for your correspondence on the above matter.

As you will be aware, living in the area, the name we have chosen for the UK's newest international airport has caused some high profile arguments, both for and against the name "Robin Hood". We felt that the airport should have a personality and therefore the name "Robin Hood" was chosen. The addition of Sheffield in the title was to increase awareness and to also include one of the largest cities in the country, and in turn increase awareness of the close proximity that Doncaster shares with Sheffield.

I thank you for enclosing the screen shots of the "Sheffield Forum Web Site" and I have also viewed the site at great length, and appreciate that there is a large number of people from the area who have voted for "Doncaster Airport" as opposed to the name that we have adopted. I also take on board your views that confusion may arise with having so many names for one airport. Indeed, in aviation circles, the airport is simply known as "Doncaster" and the airport code is "DSA" - Doncaster Sheffield Airport. The Robin Hood part is simply used as a marketing strategy and the airport will be advertised at other airports as "Doncaster" or "Doncaster/Sheffield" depending on the Customer Information Screens' capabilities at that airport.

I thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I will watch this forum carefully, as these are paying/potential customers and as such, Peel Holdings and Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport are interested in what our customers have to say. Although there are no plans to change the airport's name at this time to Doncaster Airport, we constantly monitor our external branding and may change this in the near future, if this is to the benefit of our customers.

Many thanks for getting in touch, and I hope to welcome you to Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport in the near future.
============================================

So I think that says everything

Even if you ask the Police they will say "no comment":confused:
So I think that may have laid to rest why there was so much Police activity

Had this on Friday. Got usual 6:10pm 293 bus off Arundel Gate and bus got stopped by police twice - first outside Hallam Uni, where a police car stopped us whilst convoy part one passed the other way, then on Eyre St roundabout we nearly hit a police bike who had stopped sideways in the road on the roundabout and couldn't be seen until we got close...

I assume it was a training run as there were no vip passengers in the cars being escorted, just senior police types. And as we were picking up passengers at top of moor the convey came back round the block!

Don't know if this has been posted already, but have a read - its shows total disregard for the right that we have to protest.

G8 summit: Sheffield people denounce suppression of the right to protest.
On June 15-17 the ‘Justice and Home affairs’ ministers of the G8, the world’s seven richest nations and Russia, will gather in Sheffield to discuss the home front of the ‘war against terrorism’.

The police have invoked special measures to prevent protests, informing organisers that no marches of any size will be allowed in the city centre during the summit. Any such protests will be met with force and arrests. Under the pretext of “security” the police are attempting to marginalize protests by confining protestors to a pen on Devonshire Green. Sheffield Against G8 proposed a march on the afternoon of 15th June. Sheffield Stop the War Coalition proposed static pickets on the evenings of 15th and 16th June. Both these protests have been flatly prohibited.

Whatever one’s view of the G8, we urge Sheffield people to oppose restrictions on the right to protest and to the imposition of what amounts to martial law over the centre of our city.

We, the undersigned, believe that the blanket ban on peaceful protests in our city centre is an outrageous and unacceptable infringement of our democratic right to protest. We call on all citizens, organisations and elected representatives in Sheffield to press for these repressive decisions to be reversed.



SIGNED …..



What you can do:



Send a message by email to Jillian.Creasy@Sheffield.gov.uk confirming that you support the statement (or print off and send a hard copy to Cllr Jillian Creasy, Town Hall, Pinstone St, Sheffield, S1 2HH). I will send the statement as a letter and press release to The Star and the Sheffield Telegraph on the evening of Tuesday 31st May.


Forward/print and pass on this message to friends and colleagues – we need to collect as many signatures as possible within a few days.


Join the march for Peace and Justice organised by Sheffield Stop the War Coalition on Saturday 11th June – assemble 10.30am, Devonshire Green, march to Peace in the Park Festival, Cemetery Road.

Personally I don't want a bunch of "rent-a-mob" nutters smashing up the middle of town, thank you.

I say, good on the Police for trying to minimize the damage done to our city by these "protesters" from all over the world.

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Personally I don't want a bunch of "rent-a-mob" nutters smashing up the middle of town, thank you.

I say, good on the Police for trying to minimize the damage done to our city by these "protesters" from all over the world.

:thumbsup:

Then lets see an end to football matches which tend to cause enormous damage and destruction by the unintelligent hooligans that attend them.

If we can't protest how can anyone have their say? Just because you don't want to doesn't mean others should have their rights quashed.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
Then lets see an end to football matches which tend to cause enormous damage and destruction by the unintelligent hooligans that attend them.

If we can't protest how can anyone have their say? Just because you don't want to doesn't mean others should have there rights quashed.
Historically football hooligans have been banned from travelling between countries because of the potential damage which they may do, I am glad you are suggesting the same restrictions be placed on these "thugs" also...

...that is what you meant isn't it?

Let's face it, we've all seen the damage done by anti-G8 protesters all over the world, do you seriously want these people set loose in our city?

Because I certainly don't.

Yes we all have the right to protest, but as we've seen all too often, some people take great delight in abusing that right, and G8 protesters are noted for mindless thuggish vandalism. Sheffield people are well known for speaking their minds, but they don't get the urge to smash everything in sight while they're doing it. If it means keeping the travelling nutters and Rent-a-Mob thugs away from my city then give me a couple of days of Martial Law any day. You have the right to peacefully protest, I have the right to a city without the vandalism.

I agree- these people have never heard of the words 'peaceful protest'- shut them down and lets not have the city centre wrecked!!!

There must be someone who agrees with this!

I cant quite believe the sweeping portrayal of protestors as violent thugs on this thread. The majority of people protest peacefully and are not looking for violence or confrontation, yes there has been trouble at previous G8;s, but as a result of heavy handed and oppressive policing tactics. Indeed many Police officers in Genoa are currentley on trial for the violence, torture and threats of Rape that they inflicted on protestors during the summit there.

Surely the whole point of living in a democracy is that people are allowed their say, What Sheffield will see during the G8 is a virtual Police State, where dissent is banned, and anyone who fits the profile of a protestor will be subject to harrasment and intimidation by a huge and costly police presence.

This must be one of the trickiest problems facing all democratic [or even pseudo-democratic ] societies.
The right to protest is a valuable one and , I think , should always be allowed , except in the most extreme of circumstances.
On the other hand , people have a right , too , to go about their daily lives , without being caught up in turmoil and street violence ; also , shop keepers and businesses have a right not to have their property smashed up.
I would have thought that one answer could lie in this direction :---if enough people wanted to protest or even stop the summit and they co-ordinated their efforts with trade unions and other relevant bodies , couldn't they effectively , "sabotage " the whole thing peacefully ,e.g. road blocks , maintenance staff stoppages ......that kind of thing.
Alternatively , there is the peaceful , "Ghandi " -type demonstrations that were so effective in India , against some pretty tough opposition !
We don't seem very imaginative , in this country , about protests------or organised ! Look at the French and how effective their protests generally are . Perhaps anything , anyway would do more for the Protester's cause than rampaging through town centres , smashing things and getting on everybody's t*ts !

I agree that people should be allowed to protest as its there right to BUT have you ever heard of a peaceful G8 summit?

As I see it the non - violent (but in my opinion wrong) "Stop the War" protesters may want to just walk around peacefully shouting "Stop the War" and "Tony Blair out" slogans, as they have done in the past. They'll then be joined by the Anti G8 crowd, who are intent on getting themselves on TV by smashing everything in sight, then the Pro Hunt factions will join in, and everything will turn nasty because the strong and violent anarchists will decide the way things go. So to prevent this happening controls have to be put in place to protect the peaceable public. I reckon that if you have to resort to violence in order to make your point then it must be a pretty crap point to start with.

Originally posted by omnicans
...Surely the whole point of living in a democracy is that people are allowed their say...
So write to "Points of View", don't smash up our city centre.

:|

What is "strong and violent" about being an Anarchist?

Protesting is all about media exposure and getting your message out. This why some resort to violence(or direct action to give it a euthamisim). They believe that by disrupting an event they will highlight their opposition to the event and the reasons for this. I think the recent hunt protest is a an example of successful direct action by highlighting a the lack of representatiion and acess to parliament! The problem with G8 summits such as the one in Genoa is that a small minority use this reasoning to justify randdomly destroying any corporate symbol. Im sure a certain sandwhich outlet on div street must be nervous. Thus the police tend to adopt zero tolerance policys towards uncontrolled protest and tend to keep it away from the actual summit where possible violent protest would pose most danger. So how do we allow those who wish to voice an oppositon and feel protest is the only option available do this peacefully?

I agree that you should have the right to protest during the summit. You should be able to hold your placards up with such witty slogans such as "bush the war criminal" and "no more blood for oil" even if i believe most of the protests will be dumb anti-americanism's lacking a meaningful critique
of the G8 nations policys. But what restrictions will you accept? You talk of being penned on devenshire green but surely there is enough room for you to protest. The actual distance you are from the buildings that the G8 occupies is only relevant if you wish to actually disrupt the conference which im sure many will try to do(and not just a minority there to destroy things). The police have given you space and time to exercise your democratic right so i would concentrate on making the best of this opportunity of showing how strong oppposition to the g8 summit is. You may feel that being put on dev green marganiles your protest but i think you will find that the media will go where you go. Yes it is not ideal but this is the price we pay for the violence brought about by a minority who disguise themselves under your banner. This is why the police will have so many videoing protests, so they can target troublemakers. I do not doubt that the police will abuse some powers but because your critiques of both policy of the g8 nations and the people protecting them lacks subtlty you will find it hard to highlight them effectivley.


Of note something that does bug me is the misusing of concepts. Unless the army will be responsible for crowd control do not suggest that it will be martial law as it will not.

Originally posted by pitsmoorlad
I reckon that if you have to resort to violence in order to make your point then it must be a pretty crap point to start with.

I don't think the point that these people are making is crap, however, I certainly don't agree to resorting to vandalism and violence to get that point across. I do however think that this represents the degree of frustration that people feel when time and time again the government acts without listening to the opinions of a large percentage of the people it is supposed to represent. Which of course, is how a democratic society should operate.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
I don't think the point that these people are making is crap, however, I certainly don't agree to resorting to vandalism and violence to get that point across. I do however think that this represents the degree of frustration that people feel when time and time again the government acts without listening to the opinions of a large percentage of the people it is supposed to represent. Which of course, is how a democratic society should operate.
I thought the idea of a democracy was to listen to (and represent) the largest percentage, not just every large group of people (who by definition could well be in a minority).

:confused:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
I thought the idea of a democracy was to listen to (and represent) the largest percentage, not just every large group of people (who by definition could well be in a minority).

:confused:

...and in order to find the largest group they should hold referenda, rather than acting without listening to anyone at all (eg going to war).

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Personally I don't want a bunch of "rent-a-mob" nutters smashing up the middle of town, thank you.

I say, good on the Police for trying to minimize the damage done to our city by these "protesters" from all over the world.

:thumbsup:

:help: overeacting just a little don't you think :rolleyes:

Originally posted by scottf
I agree- these people have never heard of the words 'peaceful protest'- shut them down and lets not have the city centre wrecked!!!

What a ridiculous comment.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
There must be someone who agrees with this!

I completely agree with you.

We live in a democratic society that, REEEAAAAAALLYYYY is not democratic at all.

As soon as a group of people try and say something about their government that is not well received, then it is crushed by what ever means needed :gag:

but we cannot hold referrenda on every issue, its is why we elect mp's to represent our views. Just remember democaracy during the Greek times was a derrogatry term for rule by the uneducated.

Democracy also means not just means rules byt the masses but also protection of minority rights from the oppresion of the elctorate and representation of minority views

Originally posted by tim_rutter
I don't think the point that these people are making is crap, however, I certainly don't agree to resorting to vandalism and violence to get that point across. I do however think that this represents the degree of frustration that people feel when time and time again the government acts without listening to the opinions of a large percentage of the people it is supposed to represent. Which of course, is how a democratic society should operate.

Firstly, a "large percentage" isn't necessarily the largest percentage or loudest percentage for that matter.

Secondly, I've no doubt the government listened to all the opinions. Listening is one thing but it doesn't mean that they have to change policy if they believe the weight of the argument lies in the other direction.

Yes, we have a right to protest but the police also have a right to decide that some protests carry too many inherrant (sp?) risks to be permitted - such as the march. But they have provided an alternative platform. It's up to you how to use that platform as creatively (and peacefully) as possible for maximum news coverage.

Originally posted by venger
:help: overeacting just a little don't you think :rolleyes:



What a ridiculous comment...
No, and no, in that order.

History has proven that anti-G8 "protests" have been particularly brutal and destructive...

...I simply don't want these idiots letting loose in our city.

If the damage is limited, it will be all credit to our authorities for keeping these people "contained"...

...and has as already been said, the press will cover the "protest", so don't worry, you'll get your message across whatever...

...just don't be surprised if most people have no sympathy with your tactics.

:|

Originally posted by tim_rutter
...and in order to find the largest group they should hold referenda, rather than acting without listening to anyone at all (eg going to war).

Isn't that the general election? we all vote for the party who we think will serve this country the best?

Originally posted by LuckyR
but we cannot hold referrenda on every issue, its is why we elect mp's to represent our views. Just remember democaracy during the Greek times was a derrogatry term for rule by the uneducated.

Democracy also means not just means rules byt the masses but also protection of minority rights from the oppresion of the elctorate and representation of minority views

Hardly every issue though is it.

Just consider how many people do not vote nowadays, why?

Because people do not have faith in politicians, we know they lie, do as they choose and crush people who try and appose their decisions.

I wonder if JoeP is going to tell me to stay on topic, but who can honestly say, they believe we were justified in invading Iraq?

By the way it is very on topic, some people just do not recognise it :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tim_rutter
What you can do:


What you can do: stop moaning and let the police do their job..

Originally posted by venger

Just consider how many people do not vote nowadays, why?

Because people do not have faith in politicians, we know they lie, do as they choose and crush people who try and appose their decisions.


Well if you don't vote then you can't complain at the decisions that this goverment makes,

Voting is your one big chance to make a differance in the country that you live in.

Originally posted by scottf
Well if you don't vote then you can't complain at the decisions that this goverment makes,

Voting is your one big chance to make a differance in the country that you live in.
But most of the "rent-a-mob" who turn up to "protest" at the G8 events aren't even from this country, they'll just come here to wreck our city as a way of highlighting their "cause"...

...I just hope the Police do keep them under control.

Dear Police, I am insulted by the fact you wish to keep us enclosed inside a pen situated on a patch of grass littered with 10 year old goths drinking cheap cider.

Please take deeper consideration into the selection of venue for the next such event. As a result of which don't be suprised if a couple of chickens get loose.

Signed: Me

Originally posted by foo_fighter
But most of the "rent-a-mob" who turn up to "protest" at the G8 events aren't even from this country, they'll just come here to wreck our city as a way of highlighting their "cause"...

...I just hope the Police do keep them under control.

I don'want this city smashed either, not sure Sheffield would be a target for those who you speak of anyway.

I imagine they would go straight to the top, the main meeting.

This thread was about our right to protest, I think we should have the right, not that it will do any good anyways.

Our Government sux North Americas ass and will contimue to do so, having a strong command on the World with a destructive grip.

If we do not, the U.S. would not hesitate to turn on us.

Originally posted by scottf
Well if you don't vote then you can't complain at the decisions that this goverment makes,

Voting is your one big chance to make a differance in the country that you live in.

Well I did vote and I am complaining still.

Voting my big chance to make a difference? pmlslaughing

You really believe that twaddle?

Originally posted by venger
...I imagine they would go straight to the top, the main meeting.

This thread was about our right to protest, I think we should have the right, not that it will do any good anyways.

Exactly, so by keeping the peaceful legitimate protesters away from "the top", it will limit the amount of damage the "professional protesters" will be able to do...

...while still allowing your voice to be "heard" and shown by the media.

:)

As a peacable, law abiding (for the most part) resident of sheffield, I am well within my rights to stage any kind of non-violent protest, should I wish to.

Should that bring me into conflict with the law, even if it has been expressly changed to suit the circumstances, then I have every right to break that law and continue my non-violent protest. I recognise that I may be held to account for my actions, and this will only redouble my resolve, giving me a further opportunity to voice my protest.

And I have the right to enjoy civil and courteous relations with the Law Enforcement Authorities at all times.

No-one can deny me that right. Sorry.

And as for the "attack of the self righteous brothers" circus act in this thread where posters have leapt to condemn the violent thugs and looters that, er, haven't arrived yet or, er, broken anything: jumping the gun a bit arncha? - that's why they are holding the actual G8 summit at Gleneagles.....

Am I stating the obvious but isn't the G8 summet is to be held in Scotchland?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4585273.stm

BBC News

Britain took on the presidency of the G8 at the start of the year, and the annual summit will be at the Gleneagles Hotel in Scotland from 6-8 July.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...And as for the "attack of the self righteous brothers" circus act in this thread where posters have leapt to condemn the violent thugs and looters that, er, haven't arrived yet or, er, broken anything: jumping the gun a bit arncha? - that's why they are holding the actual G8 summit at Gleneagles.....
That sounds a little bit like that famous parable about the Nazi's...

...well, they haven't come for me yet.

:loopy:

What are you going to be protesting about ?

I'd like to go and have a look at the protestors, it would be just like a day at the zoo.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
No-one can deny me that right. Sorry.


yes, they can.. something that you do, peacefully, on your own may not necessarily have the same effect when numbers are increased.. also, there is no guarantee that each individual will follow the same modus operandi and therefore there is no telling what the outcome will be of a group contribution..

if i were to take a drug like mdma on my own, peacefully, i would not be harming anyone (including myself).. however, laws have to be put in place to stop people doing this, as when the masses are allowed to do it they abuse the right and people suffer as a result..

likewise, peaceful protest is fine in principal, but it opens up the possibility for abuse and potential camoflauge for terrorist activity.. unfortunately, laws and restrictions are necessary to protect the public majority from the fanatical few..

Originally posted by Hadron
What are you going to be protesting about ?

good question - what is the actual meeting about that is been held in sheffield and what are you exactly going to be protesting about.

If it relevant to the meeting then fine have a peaceful protest but respect the law that is in place, if like the poster above stated, you choose to break the law then accept the consequences of your actions.

Originally posted by serapis
Am I stating the obvious but isn't the G8 summet is to be held in Scotchland?...
C'mon serapis, pay attention, in the very first post:
Originally posted by tim_rutter
...G8 summit: Sheffield people denounce suppression of the right to protest.
On June 15-17 the ‘Justice and Home affairs’ ministers of the G8, the world’s seven richest nations and Russia, will gather in Sheffield to discuss the home front of the ‘war against terrorism’...

;)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
That sounds a little bit like that famous parable about the Nazi's...

...well, they haven't come for me yet.

:loopy:

lol

A perfectly good point has been made, and it was executed eloquently.

Stop scaremongering will you? Perlease!

Originally posted by Hadron
What are you going to be protesting about ?

I'd like to go and have a look at the protestors, it would be just like a day at the zoo.

Idiot

I'm not going to make any comment on the nature of violence on these protests as it's a no win argument, but just want to add my support to the right to protest and say that I will be there to say my peace on the day, no matter what the government or police say.
Power to the people and all that :clap:

Originally posted by LuckyR
But what restrictions will you accept? You talk of being penned on devenshire green but surely there is enough room for you to protest. The actual distance you are from the buildings that the G8 occupies is only relevant if you wish to actually disrupt the conference which im sure many will try to do(and not just a minority there to destroy things). The police have given you space and time to exercise your democratic right so i would concentrate on making the best of this opportunity of showing how strong oppposition to the g8 summit is.

This is how any 'organised' anti bush demo is treated in the US, wherever Bush visits - the demonstrators are penned up far from the networks' primary news teams and anchors. This is simple media control, using 'security' as the justification.

So it would be remiss, nay dumb for any demonstrator wishing to make an effective (in any way whatsoever) demonstration to do so within those constraints.

The most effective demonstrations (in terms of media bang for buck) are those that totally circumvent the attempts by the event's organisers to control and minimise the effect of demonstrations.

So the as the access to mainstream media at an open news event (meeting at a hotel) is shut off, demonstrators need to be more imaginative about how they organise sudden, unexpected, mass demonstrations - and innovate methods of putting the message before the glare of the television news cameras.

Originally posted by venger
...Stop scaremongering will you? Perlease!
It is not scare mongering to point out that the track record of "protests" at G8 events has been particularly destructive...

...to reply to this by saying, "well they haven't done anything here yet" is just plain silly, it is not "a perfectly good point", and therefore it does not matter that it was "executed eloquently"...

...I for one am very glad that the Police are not burying their heads in the sand as some people would advocate.

Originally posted by dirtybobby
yes, they can.. something that you do, peacefully, on your own may not necessarily have the same effect when numbers are increased.. also, there is no guarantee that each individual will follow the same modus operandi and therefore there is no telling what the outcome will be of a group contribution..

if i were to take a drug like mdma on my own, peacefully, i would not be harming anyone (including myself).. however, laws have to be put in place to stop people doing this, as when the masses are allowed to do it they abuse the right and people suffer as a result..

likewise, peaceful protest is fine in principal, but it opens up the possibility for abuse and potential camoflauge for terrorist activity.. unfortunately, laws and restrictions are necessary to protect the public majority from the fanatical few..

Those very same arguments have been used countless times to supress legitimate protest. So you see, the potential for abuse is mutual.

Your point about mdma is a bit weird - but again, 3 million people regularly use it (or something purporting to be it) and yet our hospitals are not yet overflowing with ecstasy casualties....I'd like to see it legalised simply for the reason that the club bunnies are munching down god knows what every week in the name of entertainment - legal, clean material would reduce the risks even further, but that's another thread.

My point is, that it is my right to demonstrate, break the law and suffer the consequences. And I have the right to expect due process to be carried out at all times (and not, for example, be tried in camera and held in detention indefinitely.

If you are thinking that I should be denied the right to transparent legal process, then you should think again, as that is somewhere neither of us wants to live...

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...My point is, that it is my right to demonstrate, break the law and suffer the consequences. ...
Equaly of course, the very "protesters" we don't want here have the same rights you describe, after they have smashed up the middle of town...

...it's just I'd rather they didn't, and I'd rather the Police protected my "rights" to not suffer this violence and intimidation…

…and no, the prospect that some one will “suffer the consequences” of legal action after throwing a brick at me and my kids in McD’s is no comfort what-so-ever.

Please wake up and smell the stiff breeze of reality.

:mad:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
That sounds a little bit like that famous parable about the Nazi's...

...well, they haven't come for me yet.

:loopy:
Not quite sure if you are implying anything by that, or whether you just mention it in passing

"the parable about the nazi's(sic)" is actually a world famous quote by Martin Niemoller, as you know. Does my post really sound like this?:
First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me


I'm not quite sure how you equate protesters with Nazis, but whatever floats your boat.

What you are doing, by urging strong action against protesters who are going to destroy Sheffield City Centre, is scaremongering.

You've been monitoring the activities of all the groups (including presumably the Quakers) and decided that there is going to be a full scale riot in Sheffield? Wish I had your anti-globalisation movement contacts, as I'm sure would MI5 and Special Branch.

In some ways, the aggregated effect of a lot of scaremongering in advance of any event likely to generate tensions between the state and demonstrators, is to heighten the chances of a well organised and attended demonstration turning sour in some way.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
C'mon serapis, pay attention, in the very first post:


;)

Whoops! :blush:

The BBC news page and the G8 site all relate to Gleneagles in July.

I've not yet been able to find any information on Sheffield. If it's this poorly publicised I can't see there being that much action in Sheffield!

OK, The Evil Forces Hellbent on the destruction of all things reasonably priced and quite tasty have put forth the following Timetable of Doom schedule for Sheffield (hereinafter referred to as "Ground Zero")
reprinted from www.dissent.org.uk
Friday, 13 May 2005
From the 15th - 17th June the Justice and Interior Ministers from the eight most powerful countries in the world - the G8 - will meet in Sheffield

Groups of local people are coming together to show them how unwelcome they and their painful policies are. But also to create space where we can share experiences, learn from each other, and explore alternatives through which we can prioritise the needs, dignity and joy of people and protect our environment.


While the G8 Ministers are in Sheffield discussing policies and tactics of increasing repression, we will make clear our rejection of them and work towards true freedom, peace and democracy.

For more information and Evict Big Brother - Resist the G8 - flyers to download and distribute check out www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk
Events around the Ministers Meeting in Sheffield

Sunday 29th May - A film night of satirical shorts, comedy and lots more with Beyond TV people. 8pm Cricketers Arms, Bramall Lane. For info contact infor@slendermeans.org.uk Also see www.beyondtv.org

Friday 10th & Saturday 11th June - The Clandestine Insurgent Rebel Clown Army is in town for 2 days of clown activist training and evening entertainments - details to be confirmed. For more info see http://labofii.net/tour05 and www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk

Saturday 11 June - The third annual Peace in the Park festival, with an anti-G8 flavour, in Cemetery Lane park.For more info see www.peaceinthepark.org.uk

Saturday 11 June - Demonstration against the G8 Justice and Interior Ministers in advance of them coming to town. The demonstration will assemble at 10.30am on the Saturday and will march into the 'Peace in the Park' Festival in Cemetery Park. This march was called for by the Stop the War Coalition. For more info see www.sheffieldagainstwar.org.uk

Sunday 12 June Punk G8 Dissent Benefit gig and info sharing day for mobilisations in Sheffield and Gleneagles - more details to be confirmed. Contact info@slendermeans.org.uk

Wednesday June 15 - June 17 - opening of convergence spaces in Sheffield for people to eat, sleep, plan, create, share and learn

Wednesday 15 June - G8 Ministers arrive in town. G8 Ministers will be dining that day at the Winter Gardens.

Thursday 16 June - Ongoing Ministerial meetings in Sheffield. Ministers will be dining at the Cutlers Hall.

Thursday 16 June - Friday 17 June - Call out for actions and protest against the G8 in Sheffield. Local people against the G8 host a counterconference in the convergence space with workshops, films, music and lots more. More on details on actions and counterconference coming soon at www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk

Friday 17 June - Party to celebrate our own humanity against the inhumanity of the G8.

Monday 20 June - Bike caravan from Sheffield to G8 (to arrive in edinburgh on 2nd July). For more details contact paddygillet(at)hotmail.com

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...What you are doing, by urging strong action against protesters who are going to destroy Sheffield City Centre, is scaremongering...
Not if looked at from the perspective of what has previously happened at these events...

...by choosing to believe that this "protest" will pass off peacefully you are either dangerously naive, or simply choosing to bury your head very deeply in the sand.

I'm glad the authorities are having more foresight than you are.

:|

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Not if looked at from the perspective of what has previously happened at these events...

...by choosing to believe that this "protest" will pass off peacefully you are either dangerously naive, or simply choosing to bury your head very deeply in the sand.

I'm glad the authorities are having more foresight than you are.

:|

Presumably the police are going on the precedent set by demonstrators at the previous 10 Justice and Interior Ministers Meetings?

I may be wrong, but I don't think any of the previous cities hosting these meetings have suffered city centre riots as a result of demonstrators rampaging through the streets.

That was what you meant by:
Not if looked at from the perspective of what has previously happened at these events...

wasn't it?

Originally posted by alchresearch
The BBC news page and the G8 site all relate to Gleneagles in July.

I've not yet been able to find any information on Sheffield. If it's this poorly publicised I can't see there being that much action in Sheffield!

Well due to the heavy handed nature of the policing, these things have to be kept a little discrete ;)

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
....that's why they are holding the actual G8 summit at Gleneagles.....


They're also routing the planned march up in Scotland away from Gleneagles and down through some of the smallest villages around there:loopy:.

Sorry if I've not read this thread properly and I'm saying what's already been said, but, er, yeah, sorry.

I posted about this ages ago with next to no comments.

The G8 in Sheffield is just a pre-summit. Not THE actual summit.

And to those stating G8 protesters are just thugs want on causing carnage. Let me guess, the closet you have been to a protest is sat on yr apathetic ass in front of the tv watching stuff in Genoa with an out of control right winged army assaulting anyone in sight. Oh yeah...and who owns the Television in Italy...hmmm, I wonder.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but the carnage caused by the G8 and their abuses agianst developing countries far out weighs that caused by protesters. It's everyone's right to protest and I hope the people of Sheffield will come out and make their feelings clear. And hopefully peacfully, which Im sure it will be.

And Foo fighter, you want to wake up mate. Don't believe everything you read.

Originally posted by boyface
...The G8 in Sheffield is just a pre-summit. Not THE actual summit.

And to those stating G8 protesters are just thugs want on causing carnage. Let me guess, the closet you have been to a protest is sat on yr apathetic ass in front of the tv watching stuff in Genoa with an out of control right winged army assaulting anyone in sight. Oh yeah...and who owns the Television in Italy...hmmm, I wonder.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but the carnage caused by the G8 and their abuses agianst developing countries far out weighs that caused by protesters. It's everyone's right to protest and I hope the people of Sheffield will come out and make their feelings clear. And hopefully peacfully, which Im sure it will be.

And Foo fighter, you want to wake up mate. Don't believe everything you read.
Well, if it's not THE actual summit, none of you will mind not protesting in Sheffield then will you.

So what's all the fuss been about then?

:confused:

Edit to add
I sincerely hope it will be a peaceful protest, it would advance the cause of those protesting if it were, I just don't believe the authorities can rely on that prospect, and indeed they would be being negligent in their duty to the public if they didn't plan for the worst case (a case, with the history of some “protesters” in this instance can be anticipated).

er, we have the right to protest anywhere we wish.....and if the G8 representatives are on your doorstep then why not?

Hell, I'd do it to just annoy you :)

Originally posted by boyface
Hell, I'd do it to just annoy you :)

I hope Berlusconi is there

I will wear a Liverpool shirt :hihi:

Originally posted by boyface
er, we have the right to protest anywhere we wish.....and if the G8 representatives are on your doorstep then why not?

Hell, I'd do it to just annoy you :)
Aah, and that's the point isn't it, the hard-core "protesters" will probably be thinking the same as you...

...so which is it, real G8 or not, protest or not, you can't have it both ways...

...as you have proven in this statement, the risk is real.

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Well, if it's not THE actual summit, none of you will mind not protesting in Sheffield then will you.

So what's all the fuss been about then?

:confused:

Read the OP.

I take it you've not actually found an example of a protest against the G8 Justice and Interior Minister Meeting that turned into a riot, or even anything approaching one.... so perhaps you will now see that your vision of Sheffield city centre lying in smoking ruins as the result of a demonstration was somewhat far fetched.

The fuss is that law abiding sheffield citizens wishing to peacably demonstrate against this meeting, for whatever reasons they choose, have been denied the opportunity to do so with the agreement of the police, which is always sought in these cases.

sorry, care to enlighten me as to what "risk" I am?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...The fuss is that law abiding sheffield citizens wishing to peacably demonstrate against this meeting, for whatever reasons they choose, have been denied the opportunity to do so with the agreement of the police, which is always sought in these cases.
No they haven't...

...it's just they will have to do it at Devonshire Green, in a safe controlled environment...

...what's so wrong about that?

Originally posted by foo_fighter
No they haven't...

...it's just they will have to do it at Devonshire Green, in a safe controlled environment...

...what's so wrong about that?

are you serious? Hey, lets board a train and protest in a field in Wales or something....

What's wrong about it is that it's not actaully where the G8 will be.

Originally posted by boyface
are you serious? Hey, lets board a train and protest in a field in Wales or something....

What's wrong about it is that it's not actaully where the G8 will be.
What, Gleneagles (Scotland) ?

Don't forget,
Originally posted by boyface
...The G8 in Sheffield is just a pre-summit. Not THE actual summit...

Originally posted by foo_fighter
What, Gleneagles (Scotland) ?


Where even more draconian measures are being put in place.

oh man, I know where Gleneagles is, its just an example of a random place away from Sheffield......I know it's not in Wales.

and yr second point, well, is pointless. People cant afford to travel, and if something they disagree with is representing itself where they live they are entitled to go and protest.

You dont seem to have much of an argument.

For forum members who might like to read about the Week of Violence and Destruction that has been planned for Sheffield, you might like to look at this document (http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/sheffg8flyer3-0001.pdf)

I'd say that this sort of coralling of demonstrators might easily be circumvented through the clever use of flashmobs.

Originally posted by boyface
...and yr second point, well, is pointless. People cant afford to travel, and if something they disagree with is representing itself where they live they are entitled to go and protest.

You dont seem to have much of an argument.
The point is that it will not just be Sheffield folk doing this "protesting", there will be trouble causers from all over...

...and if you're so determined to protest outside where the G8 ministers are, go on, tell me where that is...

...odds on the two "protests" that the police haven't allowed wouldn't actually have gone past them anyway.

Seems to me like you don't have much of an argument.

:P

Originally posted by foo_fighter
The point is that it will not just be Sheffield folk doing this "protesting", there will be trouble causers from all over...

...and if you're so determined to protest outside where the G8 ministers are, go on, tell me where that is...

...odds on the two "protests" that the police haven't allowed wouldn't actually have gone past them anyway.

Seems to me like you don't have much of an argument.

:P

You assume anyone protesting is a "trouble causer". Nice one, open mind.

Secondly, they will not be meeting opposite Devonshire Green, where the protesters will be confined.

My argument is valid and simple. Something is going on in my City that I disagree with, and I want the right to protest against it in my city wherever I want. That seems pretty valid to me.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
The point is that it will not just be Sheffield folk doing this "protesting", there will be trouble causers from all over...

...and if you're so determined to protest outside where the G8 ministers are, go on, tell me where that is...

I believe the actual conferencing will be taking place at the Marriot Hotel in Nether Edge. Or they may just be staying there.

What evidence do you have to show for the fact that "trouble causers" from all over will be attending in significant numbers? The previous G8 Justice & Interior Ministers meetings I assume?

Originally posted by foo_fighter
The point is that it will not just be Sheffield folk doing this "protesting", there will be trouble causers from all over...

...and if you're so determined to protest outside where the G8 ministers are, go on, tell me where that is...

...odds on the two "protests" that the police haven't allowed wouldn't actually have gone past them anyway.

Seems to me like you don't have much of an argument.

:P


I think we all have a very valid argument and that is that in confining the protests to devonshire green, where the conferencing will most definitely not be occuring, we are having our rights removed. We might as well go and shout at a wall because they are guaranteed not to be there.

Whether we could otherwise find out where the ministers are or not is totally irrelevant.

Originally posted by boyface
You assume anyone protesting is a "trouble causer". Nice one, open mind...
I didn't say "anyone protesting is a trouble causer" (and therefore by implication "everyone"), but that some will come

Originally posted by boyface
...Secondly, they will not be meeting opposite Devonshire Green, where the protesters will be confined...
No, but it's no further away than "protesting" in town, so why do you want to be in the city centre?

Originally posted by boyface
...My argument is valid and simple. Something is going on in my City that I disagree with, and I want the right to protest against it in my city wherever I want. That seems pretty valid to me.
Yes, but back in the real world, that was never going to happen was it, you can never go "wherever" you want at any time.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
...What evidence do you have to show for the fact that "trouble causers" from all over will be attending in significant numbers? The previous G8 Justice & Interior Ministers meetings I assume?
Previous G8s have had considerable problems, are you seriously trying to suggest the authorities should ignore this and carry on unprepared, I'm sure plenty of "anti-authority" types would be up in arms complaining about a lack of planning if that were the case.

“Why couldn’t they have seen this coming” they’d bleat. :rolleyes:

Life must be very clear cut in your brain, enjoy yourself in there won't you.

:shakes:

Originally posted by tim_rutter
Whether we could otherwise find out where the ministers are or not is totally irrelevant.
Of course it's relevant Tim, the point you (and boyface) are making is that you don't want to protest at DG because the G8 ministers won't be there, and yet your opening gambit (p1) was that you aren't being allowed to "protest" in town.

What does it matter if you don't know if they'll be there or not.

See, very relevant. :P

Just been reading the big brother dissent document and saw the banner headline

"Dont believe all that you read"

Yet its telling you how bad the G8 is and how we shouldprotest blah blah blah

Yet should we (based on their statement) believe what they have put as well???

Originally posted by sheffbag
Just been reading the big brother dissent document and saw the banner headline

"Dont believe all that you read"

Yet its telling you how bad the G8 is and how we shouldprotest blah blah blah

Yet should we (based on their statement) believe what they have put as well???

Well, no. Not at face value, anyway. Read as much stuff as possible from as many sources as possible and use that to inform your opinions. I think that's what they're trying to get at.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Previous G8s have had considerable problems, are you seriously trying to suggest the authorities should ignore this and carry on unprepared,

Previous G8’s have had their troubles but these have been carried out by a fraction of the overall people demonstrating. I don’t think they should take no precautions but banning protest altogether is ridiculous.

No other country has taken such a draconian measure as to ban all protest marches while the summit is being held, even The USA, despite being on maximum security alert allowed a demonstration.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Previous G8’s have had their troubles but these have been carried out by a fraction of the overall people demonstrating. I don’t think they should take no precautions but banning protest altogether is ridiculous.

No other country has taken such a draconian measure as to ban all protest marches while the summit is being held, even The USA, despite being on maximum security alert allowed a demonstration.
But they aren't banning all protest...

...they've said that 2 particular ones are unacceptable, and that the one at Devonshire Green is a go...

...that's been acknowledged by everyone, so how have you missed it?

:suspect:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
But they aren't banning all protest...

...they've said that 2 particular ones are unacceptable,

The 2 they have said are unacceptable have been the only ones proposed whilst the summit is in session. So in effect they have banned all demonstrations while the summit is sitting.

To my knowledge Sheffield is the first city to do this. Although I think North Korea has a similar policy.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
The 2 they have said are unacceptable have been the only ones proposed whilst the summit is in session. So in effect they have banned all demonstrations while the summit is sitting.

To my knowledge Sheffield is the first city to do this. Although I think North Korea has a similar policy.
So what's happening at DG?

Looks to me like they're allowing a demo' but putting conditions as to its location, etc, that's normal isn't it?

:confused:

Even the OP doesn't accuse the authorities of trying to ban all protest,
Originally posted by tim_rutter
...the police are attempting to marginalize protests by confining protestors to a pen on Devonshire Green...

Normally the organisers propose a route and the police either agree or reach a compromise.
The point is Sheffield has banned all protest marches through the city instead only allowing demonstrators to stand penned in on Devonshire Green. this seems like an incredibly unfair situation for the protestors who should be given the right to demonstrate peacefully through their own city against the G8 if they see fit

Every national stop the war demonstration was allowed to pass alongside Whitehall, surely a bigger security risk, so why is Sheffield not allowing any demonstration in the city centre at all.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Normally the organisers propose a route and the police either agree or reach a compromise. The point is Sheffield has banned all protest marches through the city instead only allowing demonstrators to stand penned in on Devonshire Green...
Erm, surely that is the compromise, you can demonstrate (contrary to your earlier statement), but only up to a certain geographical location (which is in the city centre anyway).



You're all just blowing this out of proportion to make a point...

...a demo' is being allowed, just not exactly where you want it, just turn up, get on with it, and stop moaning about everything.

I dunno, some people. :mad:

Well I think their is a big difference between being allowed to march through your own city and being forced to stand in a pen, which to me seems pointless and i suspect that is why the police are proposing it.

Still no explanations to why Sheffield is unique in banning protest marches.

I give up on you Foo_fighter...

but please, just change your user name to Celine Dion or Phil F**king Collins, it's a tad more apt.

Theirs is something a tad ironic about a guy naming himself after a band born out of the anti capitalist scene in Seattle, only to use that user name to condemn all anti G8 protesting which began in Seattle.

One wonders what Mr Grohl would think of FF’s contributions

Originally posted by boyface
I give up on you Foo_fighter...

but please, just change your user name to Celine Dion or Phil F**king Collins, it's a tad more apt.
Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Theirs is something a tad ironic about a guy naming himself after a band born out of the anti capitalist scene in Seattle, only to use that user name to condemn all anti G8 protesting which began in Seattle.

One wonders what Mr Grohl would think of FF’s contributions
Now now ladies, lets keep a bit of perspective here, no need to get all shirty (or start swearing).

It may come as a surprise to some of you ( :rolleyes: ) but...

...wait for it...

...I'm not Dave Grohl...

...and I don't run everything I post "past the band", or contemplate what they are thinking when I formulate my thoughts.

Ta da ! Can you believe it ?

:heyhey:

My username does not dictate what I can post...

...I have free will...

...you want to try it sometime.

:thumbsup:

Ooh, just thought, why don't you both have a protest march through town to try and force me to change my username.

:hihi:




PS. Disco_Cat, do you really think Dave Grohl, with all the money he's made over the years is "anti-capitalist"? Grow-up dear boy. :loopy:

I think I'll be joining in the protests, but only cos they're shutting the trams down in the city centre during rush hour for the evening meal planned at Cutler's Hall. I'll be having to walk past it anyway, may as well wave a placard or something.

Below's an extract of an email I received, I dare say there's going to be a lot of unhappy commuters in town:

"Road closures - G8 Justice & Home Affairs meeting

As you may already know, Sheffield is hosting the UK Presidency G8 Justice & Home Affairs Ministerial Meeting from 15-17th June. Consequently, the Council and South Yorkshire Police have agreed some road closures to accommodate security needs for the meeting. These closures will mean no access for vehicles. These are:

1) Roads around the Marriott Hotel, the main venue for the meeting, will be closed from Monday 13th June, specifically Kenwood Road.
2) The Winter Garden and Millennium Galleries will host a formal welcome reception on the evening of Wednesday 15th June. Several roads around the venue will be closed; Surrey Street from its junction with Norfolk Street down to Arundel Gate will close from 12 noon (pedestrian access will also be limited), Norfolk Street will close from 4.00pm (this will not affect the rear entrance to the Town Hall, but you may want to use the front entrance instead), and Arundel Gate from 6.00pm. Central Library will close at 4.00pm, and access to the library will be just from the Children's Library entrance on Arundel Gate from 12 noon. The Graves Art Gallery will close earlier than normal. The Winter Garden and Millennium Galleries will be closed all day
on the 15th June.

3) The Cutlers' Hall will host a Gala Dinner on the evening of
Thursday 16th June. Again several roads around the venue will close from 6.00pm onwards including Church Street, High Street, Fargate, York Street and several side roads. Supertram will terminate at Castle Square and Hanover Way for both inward and outbound journeys from 6.00pm on the 16th."

Council's Information of Road Closures (http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/press/news/release.asp?akey=2782)

Not wishing to tar all protestors with the same brush, but I have a cunning plan.

Let them demonstrate in the Peace Gardens and if things get a bit heated and they want to start smashing the place up (as has been their wont in the past, admit it), then I'll be standing beside a skipload of huge bricks so that we can all take pot-shots at that pile of garbage known as the office block at St. Paul's Place. Y'know, that junk that's totally ruined the Heart of Sheffield.

It would be the first time I'd been on the same side as the protestors (not to say the last).

Beats having a go at MacDonalds, surely? (I'm lovin' it:thumbsup: ).

Surely the peace gardens is the ideal place to protest - its central, it has an history and when the police turn up the protestors can smash their ways down Fargate :) or the Moor :)

That would really confuse the police if the protests went both ways at once :)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Now now ladies, lets keep a bit of perspective here, no need to get all shirty (or start swearing).

It may come as a surprise to some of you ( :rolleyes: ) but...

...wait for it...

...I'm not Dave Grohl...

...and I don't run everything I post "past the band", or contemplate what they are thinking when I formulate my thoughts.

Ta da ! Can you believe it ?

:heyhey:

My username does not dictate what I can post...

...I have free will...

...you want to try it sometime.

:thumbsup:

Ooh, just thought, why don't you both have a protest march through town to try and force me to change my username.

:hihi:




PS. Disco_Cat, do you really think Dave Grohl, with all the money he's made over the years is "anti-capitalist"? Grow-up dear boy. :loopy:

Whether you like it or not you name is your only identity on an anonymous website. If you feel you need to hide behind such a pseudonym that is up to you. I sometimes think that people can tend to post what the hell they like just because they are anonymous. This of course is your right. However, I can imagine this conversation would be completely different if we were speaking in the flesh.

Anyway, back to the point. I would like you to provide some evidence of the alledged riots that you are so adamant will occur.

Originally posted by foo_fighter

Ta da ! Can you believe it ?

:heyhey:

My username does not dictate what I can post...

...I have free will...

...you want to try it sometime.

:thumbsup:

Ooh, just thought, why don't you both have a protest march through town to try and force me to change my username.

:hihi:




PS. Disco_Cat, do you really think Dave Grohl, with all the money he's made over the years is "anti-capitalist"? Grow-up dear boy. :loopy:

So what was all that crap about exactly?

How much money Dave Grohl has made has no place here at all.

It is not an anticapitalist demonstration, my personal beef with the G8 is how they command the World by force and tyranny killing thousands, leaving others homeless and starving to death.

Not addressing issues that the people want, war, pollution, genocide,famine etc....

And doing it in our name, and when some of us try to be heard, we are swept under the carpet and threatened with the use of force.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Theirs is something a tad ironic about a guy naming himself after a band born out of the anti capitalist scene in Seattle

pmslaughing, crossed my mind also :clap:

It is becoming unclear foo_fighter what you point really is, it does not come across as an informed one or 1 really worth arguing with because you clearly know you are right :gag:

You have dismissed several points made against your comments and claims but seem to want to carry on arguing about something and everything, are you a policeman?

Do you really have anything positive to add to this thread foo_fighter ?

if you cant protest on the street how about a peace full gathering in one of our many parks,it would get publicity and cause no damage,get a few bands on etc it would be like the original 60,s protests and you will still get your message accross

In some ways, the G8 Justice ministers meeting will be a victim of its own secrecy and security in the battle for airtime.

But to keep protesters away from news teams (much like they were kept away from visiting Chinese dignitaries) is simply using "security" as a catchall term to provide justification for everything.

If they were that worried about security, they'd hold the meeting in secret.

Does anyone else think that having 'Justice Ministers' is a little too much? It makes them sound like Justice League of America! Or Team America World Police!

I have been on loads of protests against various things that I feel strongly about and I've never smashed up a thing, I have some horrific photographs of police brutality though, from england and abroad.

Phan I had a really heavy night last night and your avatar is really spinning me out! :)

Originally posted by kathythebean
Phan I had a really heavy night last night and your avatar is really spinning me out! :)
good good. just wait until I tune the frequency correctly.....

Its too much, I just can't cope....every time I stand up I go blind for a few seconds. If you try and control my brainwaves I will report you to my nearest Justice Minister :)

Originally posted by venger
...And doing it in our name, and when some of us try to be heard, we are swept under the carpet and threatened with the use of force...
What, like this...
Originally posted by tim_rutter
...However, I can imagine this conversation would be completely different if we were speaking in the flesh...
...can't think what else that was but a rather unsubtle threat...

...why exactly do you think the conversation would be different face to face?

:suspect:

Originally posted by depoix
how about a peace full gathering in one of our many parks

http://www.peaceinthepark.org.uk

Anarchists are people who dont get up till 12 ,claim benefits and hate the capitalists that provide them with money for doing f.c. all except reading the Guardian and stinking out certain pubs in Crookes cos they are too idle to even shower or wash their hair. I think you know who you are and some on this board will know as well.

Originally posted by dragonsoup
[B]stinking out certain pubs in Crookes[B]

which pub is this?

Originally posted by dragonsoup
and stinking out certain pubs in Crookes.

Brilliant....I at the very least expected this to end with something like "the Vine"...not some pub in Crookes....

Let me enlighten you my sweet....the kind of people you refer to in pubs in Crookes are mainly middle class kids named trevilliun or Gustard who are "slumming it" until they graduate and become a lawyer, or better still, *shock* *horror* keep wearing the badly knitted jumper and become a fully fledged archeoligist :)

You don't frequent Crookes too much do you?

I'd been keen to know why you made this comment?

Originally posted by foo_fighter
What, like this...

...can't think what else that was but a rather unsubtle threat...

...why exactly do you think the conversation would be different face to face?

:suspect:

I was indicating that people tend to be much more confrontational on this forum because they are anonymous. It would be a lot more civilised in reality.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
I was indicating that people tend to be much more confrontational on this forum because they are anonymous. It would be a lot more civilised in reality.

I agree mate, I think people tend to run with their mouths a little more online than they would in "reality"

Not me like, I can't hold me gob ;)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
What, like this...

...can't think what else that was but a rather unsubtle threat...

...why exactly do you think the conversation would be different face to face?

:suspect:

Clearly you have avoided any real argument that was made against you, AGAIN!

What do you think is more entertaining?

1 ~ You antagonising people

or

2 ~ Making yourself look really stupid

Originally posted by venger
Clearly you have avoided any real argument that was made against you, AGAIN!

What do you think is more entertaining?

1 ~ You antagonising people

or

2 ~ Making yourself look really stupid
1) I've made my point numerous times, as have other people, but the 3 of you have turned this into a personal crusade, rather than exploring the issues or other peoples concerns, and the reasons your "friendly protesters" clearly aren't trusted by most people.

2) Having a go at my choice of "username" is clearly infantile.

3) To clarify my position (as if it were needed), I am happy for the Police to restrict the protests in the interest of safety, and the maintenance of law and order. Previous protests at numerous G8 events have lead to violence and destruction. SY Police are allowing "protests", it's just they've limited the locations, it all seems like reasonable precautions to me.

4) Now, again, if you want to "protest" go do it (on DG), but do it safely, and without intimidating other people.

5) Please, don't wreck the middle of town, and if you see anybody else doing anything while your there, you will of course assist the authorities in minimising the damage / bringing the perpetrators to justice, won't you?

Wow.

You've assumed were all hooligans bent on damage and destruction. Can I ask why?

I'd hate for you to ever be called up for jury service.

he's a magistrate :)

Originally posted by boyface
...You've assumed were all hooligans bent on damage and destruction. Can I ask why?...
1) For all I know, you might be. ;)

2) Actually, all I was asking was that people didn't destroy or damage, and that if people could see fit, that they assist with minimising any damage which may be perpetrated. :thumbsup:


Originally posted by boyface
Wow...

...I'd hate for you to ever be called up for jury service.
Wow yourself, you just couldn't resist getting personal again could you.

There's a whole lot of presumption going on there don't you think.

Juries are made up of 12 people from different backgrounds with different points of view, or are you suggesting they should only be made up of people who agree with you? :loopy:




Originally posted by Internetowl
he's a magistrate :)
You never know, I might be. :hihi:

Originally posted by foo_fighter


There's a whole lot of presumption going on there don't you think.



Couldn't agree more, but from your side I'd say.

I cant be bothered to respond anymore, it's just going around in circles.

I am sick of seeing you lot or similar in town asking me to sign your drivel. If you are peaceful it shouldn't be a problem where you protest. As you wish to be as close as possible to the summit it is obvious you want to cause trouble and as such the police are right.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
3) To clarify my position (as if it were needed), I am happy for the Police to restrict the protests in the interest of safety, and the maintenance of law and order. Previous protests at numerous G8 events have lead to violence and destruction. SY Police are allowing "protests", it's just they've limited the locations, it all seems like reasonable precautions to me.

I disagree.

No affray has ever been recorded at a previous G8 JHA meet - despite protests at several.

If there were indications that ya basta! et al were bussing in anarchists then perhaps, but everything organised so far points to Sheffield people organising events and demonstrations around this event.

I simply don't think the protests are being restricted for security purposes at all, I think they are being restricted to avoid embarassment and discomfort for the British Government.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme


I simply don't think the protests are being restricted for security purposes at all, I think they are being restricted to avoid embarassment and discomfort for the British Government.

Originally posted by mrplodge
I am sick of seeing you lot or similar in town asking me to sign your drivel. If you are peaceful it shouldn't be a problem where you protest. As you wish to be as close as possible to the summit it is obvious you want to cause trouble and as such the police are right.

Ah man, I said I wouldn't respond, but I can't help biting at this kind of drivel.

Of course it's a problem where you protest! If you're protesting about something, you want to protest where that something is. Maybe we should all stay at home and have our own one man protest in our living rooms?...that's sure to register. Because we want to protest where the actual event is means we must be out to cause trouble?...your reasons are?

And, somebody asked you to sign something? Blimey, I bet that ruined your whole weekend. You must have a pretty easy life if that's the kind of thing that bothers you. Like the kids of Grange Hill said "just say no".

Originally posted by foo_fighter
That sounds a little bit like that famous parable about the Nazi's...

...well, they haven't come for me yet.

:loopy: give them time, give them time....

Surely, one of the main purposes of a MARCH is to pass along a route and gain the maximum attention from unknowing people to whatever cause the marchers are concerned about? It's hardly a protest march if everyone participating is penned up on Devonshire Green, is it, really?

Penned and kept there for as long as the authorities desire, I suppose. Remember when that happened in London a couple of years ago? People with children, either with them or needing to be collected from school were deliberately kept corralled for hours, people weren't allowed to use a loo or able to get anything to eat, people who just happened to be in the vicinity were prevented by the police from going about their lawful business. Designed to be a lesson for the apathetic not to become too aware or too concerned perhaps?

IMO the people who are willing to have their freedoms curtailed just because "something" might happen, deserve all they get - but I fail to see why the rest of us have to be dragged along in their wake.

There are several points that need to be addressed here.

The first is about the G8 - that it is currently a loathsome body dedicated to preserving the current world economic order - an order that kills millions every year and robs two thirds of humanity of their dignity (the G8 members don't do this out of spite, but because they have no choice - if they gave up their power voluntarily, their economies would suffer and their government would be unseated). It's undemocratic, and can only be forced to do the right thing by an overwhelming display of popular will. That doesn't mean violence, and to assume it does displays a lack of imagination.

The second point is that the protests will not necessarily be violent. The vast majority of anti-G8 protests have been peaceful - but more media attention has been given to the violent protestors in an attempt to discredit them. Judging by the ignorant responses on this thread, this has been met with some measure of success (again, it's in the very nature of the media to work like this - you have to be a millionaire to own a newspaper, so how do you think the newspapers are going to react to a group acting against the interests of millionaires everywhere?).

The third point is that it's not just about your stance on the G8 - it's about your right to protest. Of course we could just stand on Devonshire Green, away from the actual meeting - but what would be the point? The point of the protest is that the prescence of so many angry people is felt by the members of the G8, and this influences their action. Why should we have to gratefully accept the inadequate offer the police have graciously made us? Why should we be made to feel like it's not our right to decide where we would like to protest in our own city? How are we, who have killed no-one, morally inferior to those who will be sitting in the meeting, deciding policies that will kill many, and rob many more of their rights? Apologies for length
Edward

PS, what are we going to do about this? Has anyone gone to the local papers? Radio Sheffield/HallamFM? How fast could someone run off a leaflet?
Edward

Nether Edge against the War
Break the Chains of the G8

Event: Peacemeal
Wednesday June 15th 6pm, St.Peters Church Hall, Machon Bank, Nether Edge.

Bring food to share, bring yourself, bring your friends and family - An impromptu celebration of peace.

for other events (including the devonshire green rally, march and Peace in the Park festival) see http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/

Originally posted by boyface
Brilliant....I at the very least expected this to end with something like "the Vine"...not some pub in Crookes....

Let me enlighten you my sweet....the kind of people you refer to in pubs in Crookes are mainly middle class kids named trevilliun or Gustard who are "slumming it" until they graduate and become a lawyer, or better still, *shock* *horror* keep wearing the badly knitted jumper and become a fully fledged archeoligist :)

You don't frequent Crookes too much do you?

I'd been keen to know why you made this comment? The Vine is a good boozer. I dont need enlightening from you or anyone else about the types recently populating Crookes. I know the place well having lived here since it was mostly working class, including lots of other areas inc. Beaumont Road, Attercliffe , Walkley etc. sorry to dissapoint you my 'sweet' patronising git.

I may have missed something here...but the G8 summit is NOT happening in Sheffield. Why is everyone getting so excited about a few junior politicians meeting in your town?

I wasn't aware that the Justice and Home Affairs Ministers of the 8 most powerful states in the world, (including our own Charles Clark) were junior politicians.

Junior compared to who exactly?

I guess the event was scheduled for Sheffield while the honorable member for Brightside was still home secretary.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I wasn't aware that the Justice and Home Affairs Ministers of the 8 most powerful states in the world, (including our own Charles Clark) were junior politicians.

Junior compared to who exactly?

I guess the event was scheduled for Sheffield while the honorable member for Brightside was still home secretary.

It's still not the "G8 Summit". They are "junior" compared to those attending the real meeting in JULY.

Originally posted by Rob_Roy
I may have missed something here...but the G8 summit is NOT happening in Sheffield. Why is everyone getting so excited about a few junior politicians meeting in your town?

yep you missed it I'm afraid. It was in the original post -

Originally posted by tim_rutter
Don't know if this has been posted already, but have a read - its shows total disregard for the right that we have to protest.

G8 summit: Sheffield people denounce suppression of the right to protest.
On June 15-17 the ‘Justice and Home affairs’ ministers of the G8, the world’s seven richest nations and Russia, will gather in Sheffield to discuss the home front of the ‘war against terrorism’.

Not missed a thing. The G8 summit is NOT in Sheffield and it is NOT being held 15-17 June.

The G8 summit is in Gleneagles on 2nd July.

Have fun with your protest.

Originally posted by Rob_Roy
Not missed a thing. The G8 summit is NOT in Sheffield and it is NOT being held 15-17 June.

The G8 summit is in Gleneagles on 2nd July.

Have fun with your protest.

Not my protest. But the demonstrators will be grateful to you for bumping the thread, even though all you came to do was to reiterate a much reiterated point - that the actualG8 summit is in Gleneagles.

Those forummers who take an interest in, and a view on the G8 may wish to know that the Interior Ministers of the G8 countries are meeting in Sheffield at a G8 conference. Forummers who wish to stand up and be counted as being opposed to the principles of the G8 - supranational and unaccountable government, may take this opportunity to do so.

Thank you for drawing our attention to this fact.

I bumped a thread that had a postin 10 minutes previous to mine?

Whatever.

Face facts: Sheffield never has and never will register on the radar of the G8. If there is some kind of meeting of junior politicians (and let's face it they are) it is only to give a boost to your feeble local economy.

Originally posted by Rob_Roy
I bumped a thread that had a postin 10 minutes previous to mine?Whatever. Face facts: Sheffield never has and never will register on the radar of the G8. If there is some kind of meeting of junior politicians (and let's face it they are) it is only to give a boost to your feeble local economy.

There seems to be a slight edge to your tone, Rob_Roy? Not from Sheffield then? :D

American or something. maybe? Just picking up on your previous post and the use of "town" when you mean "city".

You comment on us not registering on the radar of the the GB as though that's a bad thing.

Edward, an excellent post and clear and concise explanation of past events and what G8 appears to be all about. Thank you.

Originally posted by Edward
...The second point is that the protests will not necessarily be violent...
Not necessarily, and I certainly hope they aren't, as I've already said, it will help your cause considerably if this whole thing passes by peaceably...

...but it would be incredibly remiss of the authorities to run this event as if there was no possibility of unrest, that really would be "ignorant" and show "a lack of imagination".

Let's all hope a sensible protest goes ahead without any problems, good luck with your Nether Edge meeting Phan', I've plenty of time for that sort of meeting, it's the highly publicised "nutters" I'm concerned about.

Please just let the authorities do the right thing and keep our city safe.

:)

Well, Foo, why not just restrict all rights altogether, because there is a possibility that someone might abuse them?

It's nice of you to offer your best wishes, but your message is still the same; the sort of people who go to protests cannot be trusted to manifest themselves peacefully, their rights should be curtailed.

I have been on a lot of marches, and every time the police have maintained a prescence and provided reassurance to all involved (both the marchers and shopkeepers, although neither party really needed much reassuring) that violence was not possible - and they did this without depriving anyone of their rights to freedom of assembly!

To suggest that it is not possible to do the same this time is misguided - I suspect that your support for the police's proposal stems not from a genuine concern for the safety of Fargate proprietors, but from political misgivings about the protest itself.

Again, we mustn't win the argument and lose the fight, what do people intend to do about this criminal plan other than sign a petition?
Edward

Originally posted by Edward
Again, we mustn't win the argument and lose the fight, what do people intend to do about this criminal plan other than sign a petition?
Edward [/B]

Flout the ban and protest where we wish anyway :D

Foo_fighter

I agreed with you whole heartedly..... No ones saying they shouldnt protest but its fact that 'protests' no matter how peaceful, are a magnet for the more undesirables to cause major damage. I dont think anyone wants to be a part of hooliganism of any sorts.

The peaceful protest has been allowed and its obvious that to keep it peaceful it needs to be policed.

For all you protestors out there. I'd like to know your views on how you think our government should deal with terrorism???

Twin Towers, hundreds killed! what let them off WTF.

Whats the alternative? Should we not locate and detain people involved in such atrocities.

Margaret Thatcher said we would never fight Terrorism with Terrorism. This is obviously what G8 is all about, discussing the ways of dealing with terrorism and finding alternatives of stopping such abuse of humanity.

Whats the alternative.... sending people like Osoma Bin Laden on a holiday to think about his actions and try to rehabilitate him. Yeh right!.

Go ahead and protest but go to the organised event at DG. It makes sense.

Originally posted by technophobe

Whats the alternative? Should we not locate and detain people involved in such atrocities.


Locate and detain the guilty maybe, but to lock up and detain the innocent fot no other reason than fear and prejudice. Well I suppose that is a very Thatcherite thing to do.

I really can't get into this whole argument, it makes me lose my faith in humanity to see so many narrow minded people completely unable to see the point or the importance of the issues.

P.L.U.R

A lot of people seem to think you can detect guilt by looking at people, like they have "terrorist" tattooed on their forehead.

You don't have seperate laws for the "innocent" and the "guilty" and generally in this country you were presumed innocent until found guilty of something.

Unfortunately it seems that a new terrorist threat, which is no worse than any IRA threat was has thrown out the principles of natural justice.

Originally posted by technophobe

For all you protestors out there. I'd like to know your views on how you think our government should deal with terrorism???


Perhaps by not letting groups like the G8 screw the world over, terrorists wouldn't feel the need to attack nations.

Originally posted by technophobe
Foo_fighter

Whats the alternative.... sending people like Osama Bin Laden on a holiday to think about his actions and try to rehabilitate him. Yeh right!.



Didn't a certain key member of the G8 actually fund Bin Laden to fight a fellow G8 member - reap what you sow...

Originally posted by foo_fighter

2) Having a go at my choice of "username" is clearly infantile.
[/B]


You must be very keen to see Foo Fighters refuse to play Leeds and hopefully cancel the whole festival

I’ve been on my fair share of demonstrations and have never once seen any violence of the sort you are so fearful of happening in Sheffield. I have however been to Leeds festival when a minority of mindless thugs have wrecked the place, ripping down lights, torching tents, gas canisters and toilets etc. Generally causing thousands of pounds worth of damage and putting peoples lives at risk.

So if you are so adamant I should not be allowed to go on a protest mach incase someone puts a brick through $tarbuck$ window, surely you should be equally passionate about stopping Leeds festival. Leeds has a history of attracting violence and vandalism on scales much bigger then any stop the war demonstration. I think on February the 15th their were 2 arrests in London.

Compare this to Leeds Festival and really you should forget about supporting police the repression of protests and focus on stopping the Foo Fighters playing Leeds.

Originally posted by Rob_Roy

The G8 summit is in Gleneagles on 2nd July.


For someone so keen to argue the specific facts you really should check yours first.

is their a way to delete terrible errors such as this post?

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
You must be very keen to see Foo Fighters refuse to play Leeds and hopefully cancel the whole festival...

...Compare this to Leeds Festival and really you should forget about supporting police the repression of protests and focus on stopping the Foo Fighters playing Leeds.
Nah, not bothered about that...

...if people want to smash up Leeds they can get on with it...

...it's Sheffield that I don't want damaging by your "mates".

;)

:heyhey:

Technophobe I understand what you're saying but not everyone wants to protest the G8 because of their attitude towards terrorism, etc. Some people are angry at the relative unimportance given to environmental matters or social justice at the expense of economic protectionism. Others just feel that the people who 'run the world' need to be reminded of the hypocrisy of the G8 making policy that will affect the lives of people across the globe, for example, in african nations, that have no place at the G8 table.

As has already been mentioned, this is not the gleneagles summit - this is sheffield, peeps, not seattle! There will not be widescale riots or destruction. If there is any criminal damage, at least it will be for a slightly better cause than the mindless vandalism that takes place EVERY WEEKEND NIGHT FOR NO REASON!

Originally posted by kathythebean
...If there is any criminal damage, at least it will be for a slightly better cause...
Oh, so if I decide my "cause" is worthy can I come round and smash up your front room?

:loopy:

Oh my word. You ARE an angry person, aren't you! There's no need for the little screwy headed smily thing you know. I'm only giving an opinion.

Does anyone have any idea what these protests on the green are going to entail? i.e. I live next to it and I'd like to know if it would be a good idea to stock up on enough food etc. and hole myself in for a few days and avoid going out if it means I get shoved in some pen by the police.

Don't worry twiglet it will be a few lefties with packed lunches :) I wouldn't worry too much!

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Oh, so if I decide my "cause" is worthy can I come round and smash up your front room?

:loopy: mature!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by kathythebean
...I'm only giving an opinion.
Yep, and so am I...

...it's just I'm not advocating destruction of other peoples property (even for a "good cause").

:D

Originally posted by miniminch
mature! :rolleyes:
Well, you'd be the expert on that mm. :P

Originally posted by aNTAcid
Locate and detain the guilty maybe, but to lock up and detain the innocent fot no other reason than fear and prejudice. Well I suppose that is a very Thatcherite thing to do.

I really can't get into this whole argument, it makes me lose my faith in humanity to see so many narrow minded people completely unable to see the point or the importance of the issues.

P.L.U.R

I thought it was David Blunkett wot did it ? Who did Maggie Thatcher have detained sin die without trial or access to a lawyer ?

I wonder why the govt. don't use another of Blunkett's catch-all meaures and just slap ASBOs on people suspected of terrorist activity. Wouldn't be too hard to frame the terms of the order so the suspects were certain to break them and they could then be banged up for five years without the govt. having to thumb their nose at human rights ;)

Or perhaps it's the protestors should be given ASBOs ?....or the G8 justice ministers, - they're the really anti-social ones.

For a lot of people who've posted on this thread I can understand that they'd be worried about "protests" taking place under their noses, given the media circus treatment of past protests. The very few violent people were given all the attention. The thousands who protested peacefully were barely given a mention.

I still think that they'd think it worth getting involved if they were really cogniscent of what the G8 is all about ...

Foo_fighter, given your past posts on other political subjects and your undoubted grasp of such matters and current affairs, I'm really quite surprised at the puerile arguments you've been laying down on this thread, almost playing Devil's Advocate. it seems.

I've never known a protest in Sheffield descend to the level of the violence and destruction that, as someone remarked earlier, can be seen any weekend night in the city centre and suburbs.

At the risk of sounding hysterical and a drama queen - Please everyone, for the sake of the future... take a closer look into what the G8 is really all about before you agree with the shutting down of legitimate disgreement and protest.

Originally posted by rubydazzler
...Foo_fighter, given your past posts on other political subjects and your undoubted grasp of such matters and current affairs, I'm really quite surprised at the puerile arguments you've been laying down on this thread, almost playing Devil's Advocate. it seems...
You may have a point there. ;)

But...

...I still think it's fair to say that protesting hasn't been "stopped", just restricted, and it's understandable that this would be the case.

As RubyD has pointed out, I don't actually disagree with many of you as much as you may think I do...

...I just think your expecting a lot if you think the authorities are going to let unlimited numbers protest "wherever" you want.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, good luck with your protests...

...just try to keep the "nutters" out of Sheffield, oops, too late. ;)

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Oh, so if I decide my "cause" is worthy can I come round and smash up your front room?

:loopy:

You really are making yourself look stupid, ignorant and stubborn.

Why don't you address some of the points that have been made, rather than witter on about our City Centre getting smashed up?

I'd be quite happy to see any protestor who actively seeks out to smash things up have the full weight of the law come down on them, as they distract from the message that should be being put accross.

Unfortunately it is often the policy of the government and/or police to try and provoke trouble, usually by treating protestors like animals in the way that they are herded.

Originally posted by technophobe

For all you protestors out there. I'd like to know your views on how you think our government should deal with terrorism???

Twin Towers, hundreds killed! what let them off WTF.


Whats the alternative.... sending people like Osoma Bin Laden on a holiday to think about his actions and try to rehabilitate him. Yeh right!.



To help deal with terrorism would be to not initiate it for starters.

Twin Towers, over 5 thousand killed and many more with lasting illness.

There is substantial evidence to prove that Osama had no link what so ever with the attacks on the U.S. that fateful day.

I, like many, many others believe that is the case.

What exactly does Osama Bin Laden have to do with protesting against the G8?

Being against some of the aims of the G8 and WTO doesn't mean that you support terrorism.

And if you think what happened on September 11th was bad try taking a look at what Chechnya looks like. The capital city has been systematically destroyed by Putin in the name of "war on terrorism"

the G8 are as much perpetrators of terrorism as they are victims.

Originally posted by Greybeard
I thought it was David Blunkett wot did it ? Who did Maggie Thatcher have detained sin die without trial or access to a lawyer ?

Quite a few Yorkshire Miners might disagree...

try and look at this from the police's point of view, the eight biggest nations in the world all sending representatives to this. if you get a large group of people mingling around town it creates a nigh-on unmangable situation for the coppers in dealing with anything untoward which might happen (i'm talking about terrorists here, not protesters, although that is a factor). if the police keep them all on dev green then it makes it easier to keep an eye firstly on protestors but also patrol the area around where the summit is taking place (is this the town hall?). ity has no effect on the right to protest, it just lays down some ground rules early on so there's no confusion in june

What about two million people in London on February 15th, 2003? The police were outnumbered there, yet nothing bad happened. That's because people protesting for peace largely tend to be, well, peaceful!

I doubt safety has anything to do with it. What's a protester going to do, throw a grenade into the building? There's always that risk with anything, and yet with protests against Blair or Bush or whoever in the past, protesters have been allowed to get relatively near. Remember, these are not world leaders that are going to be in Sheffield; just representatives.

The motivation behind putting protesters on Devonshire Green is to destroy their entire purpose. And that's the irony of it: that the protest itself is fighting for the right to protest! Amongst many other things.

You have to remember the history of the police tactics, going back to those in our very own region back in the mid-Eighties with the miners' strikes. The plan was, move the protesters around, keep them frustrated, thus provoking them, and therefore discrediting their entire campaign. We in Sheffield have a right to protest this, but clearly that's irrelevant from the power trickling to the police from high above...

Originally posted by venger
You really are making yourself look stupid, ignorant and stubborn...
If you say so. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by blademan
try and look at this from the police's point of view, the eight biggest nations in the world all sending representatives to this. if you get a large group of people mingling around town it creates a nigh-on unmangable situation for the coppers in dealing with anything untoward which might happen (i'm talking about terrorists here, not protesters, although that is a factor). if the police keep them all on dev green then it makes it easier to keep an eye firstly on protestors but also patrol the area around where the summit is taking place (is this the town hall?). ity has no effect on the right to protest, it just lays down some ground rules early on so there's no confusion in june
Precisely, but of course some people want to "protest" just for the sake of it:

Originally posted by JayBaker
...that the protest itself is fighting for the right to protest!...
Is that like having a meeting, to arrange the next meeting...

...pretty pointless really then. :heyhey:

Originally posted by foo_fighter

Is that like having a meeting, to arrange the next meeting...

...pretty pointless really then.

Not really I‘ve been to plenty of meetings were pretty much the only purpose was to arrange a larger meeting at a later date. In fact I might be mistaken but isn't this meeting in Sheffield part of setting some of the agenda for the Scotland summit.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Not really I‘ve been to plenty of meetings were pretty much the only purpose was to arrange a larger meeting at a later date...
Oh, you must have gone home feeling like you'd really achieved something that day. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
...In fact I might be mistaken but isn't this meeting in Sheffield part of setting some of the agenda for the Scotland summit
The very first post explained what the Sheffield meeting was about:
Originally posted by tim_rutter
...On June 15-17 the ‘Justice and Home affairs’ ministers of the G8, the world’s seven richest nations and Russia, will gather in Sheffield to discuss the home front of the ‘war against terrorism’....

Wouldn't these so called justice ministers be better off just ****ing off and getting a secure internet forum to chat about who next to bomb and which country to rape

Originally posted by foo_fighter


Is that like having a meeting, to arrange the next meeting...

...pretty pointless really then. :heyhey:


Do you wonder why people start to gang up on you when posting things like that? If you don't see the point in protesting and don't want to protest then don't go. Others do and think it is worthwhile so don't mock their efforts.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
Do you wonder why people start to gang up on you when posting things like that?...
Ooooh, are the three of you "ganging up on me".

Right, outside into the playground now, I'll take you's all!

:hihi:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Ooooh, are the three of you "ganging up on me".

Right, outside into the playground now, I'll take you's all!

:hihi:

Jesus. The maturity of some people on this forum is incredible. Its' like having an argument with a 9 year old, although I suspect they'd have more of a grasp on the poitical situation being discussed.

forgive my slight ignorance but are there more of these "mini summits" in other places than sheffield before ine dinburgh on the 2nd of july or are there just those two.

Originally posted by JayBaker
these are not world leaders that are going to be in Sheffield; just representatives.

surely if its to do with the war on terror, they'll be wanting to send someone important like jack straw etc.

also, i wasn't sayiong that a "protester would throw a grenade through the window, i said that if there was a large group of people congregated around (the town hall?), it would be so easy for a terrorist to mix in with them and so on and so forth.

forgive my slight ignorance but are there more of these "mini summits" in other places than sheffield before in edinburgh on the 2nd of july or are there just those two.

Originally posted by JayBaker
these are not world leaders that are going to be in Sheffield; just representatives.
surely if its to do with the war on terror, they'll be wanting to send someone important like jack straw etc.

also, i wasn't saying that a "protester would throw a grenade through the window", i said that if there was a large group of people congregated around (the town hall?), it would be so easy for a terrorist to mix in with them and do what they like.

Originally posted by blademan
forgive my slight ignorance but are there more of these "mini summits" in other places than sheffield before in edinburgh on the 2nd of july or are there just those two.


surely if its to do with the war on terror, they'll be wanting to send someone important like jack straw etc.

also, i wasn't saying that a "protester would throw a grenade through the window", i said that if there was a large group of people congregated around (the town hall?), it would be so easy for a terrorist to mix in with them and do what they like.

There are other mini summits scheduled but nothing of the scale of the Sheffield one. I think the big security operation is because Condoleezza Rice will be attending.

Big bloody helicopter hovering overhead in Nether Edge interupted my afternoon nap on Sunday. Surely a reason to protest!

M

Originally posted by blademan
...also, i wasn't saying that a "protester would throw a grenade through the window", i said that if there was a large group of people congregated around (the town hall?), it would be so easy for a terrorist to mix in with them and do what they like.
It's OK, most people understood what you meant...

...but some "chose" not to. :suspect:

Originally posted by aNTAcid
Jesus. The maturity of some people on this forum is incredible. Its' like having an argument with a 9 year old, although I suspect they'd have more of a grasp on the poitical situation being discussed.
The reasoning has been gone over again and again, it doesn't matter if 3 (or now 4) of you want to "gang up", it won't change anything.

The Police are doing this to maintain safety and security, you will be allowed to “protest”, just not "wherever" you want.

I (and others) support this stance.

End of story.

Have a nice day. :)

Chill people..... gosh you can understand how a peaceful protest turns into anger, agression and then ultimately damage and violence. Its obviously clear that we all have very different views from one another, but personal remarks and jibes dont get anyone anywhere.

We all have to respect other peoples points of view, so just because we dont all agree doesnt mean theres a wrong and right view.

Respect others.......

Yes you have a right to protest - no ones taking that away it is after all a free country.

Unfortunately some people (who have no interest in why the protest is taking place) latch on and cause damage/violence which takes away the importance of why the protest is taking place.

There will never be peace on earth due to us all being very different (politics/religion a receipe for disaster).

I also hope the protest goes ahead without harm.

Like I said before respect other peoples views and cut the rude comments and personal jibes - Its sickening.



:(

Originally posted by foo_fighter
1) I've made my point numerous times, as have other people, but the 3 of you have turned this into a personal crusade...

... 2) Having a go at my choice of "username" is clearly infantile.


This is the point at which you noticed that people were starting to get at you personally. Just trying to keep things civilised...

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Ooooh, are the three of you "ganging up on me".

Right, outside into the playground now, I'll take you's all!


... which you are evidently not capable of.

No-one is suggesting that demonstrations should not be policed or that security should not be an issue, but considering the tenor of the planned demonstrations, the words 'total ******* overkill' spring to mind.

And one has to wonder at the motives for this obvious overkill on security - my guess is to avoid any embarassment in the international media. It would be unseemly for the world to notice that in a corner of Yorkshire there are plenty of people whose antipathy for the principles and process of the G8 runs as deep and strong as their own.

It's a war of messages, and obviously the government is fighting with all the cards, able to restrict protest to unnoticed backwaters. I would do the same in their situation., i.e. If I had to win the war of messages at all costs.

Implicit policies to provoke demonstrators have also been noted as part and parcel of this tendency.

If the international media are coming to sheffield, as surely they must, for this conference then it's up to the demonstrators to make sure that their message is conveyed simultaneously with the news of the Conference itself.

Laws may be broken to do so. This in itself is not morally wrong, particularly if the laws being enforced are intended to deal with entirely different circumstances.

I've been considering a form of protest that is entirely non-violent but sends a clear and undeniable message straight to the conference attendees, right past their retinues and media hacks and into their cerebral cortex. Just need to refine a few basic principles, namely how to construct it and how to deploy it, but hey, I've got a fortnight......:cool:

Originally posted by tim_rutter
This is the point at which you noticed that people were starting to get at you personally...
Shhh, the rest of your "gang" think everybody's taking this as an "argument", they haven't realised everybody knows your just throwing personal insults now.

;)


Good job we do have the Police around in real life isn't it, some people can't even keep a discussion on the internet "in perspective".

:shakes:

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
[
Laws may be broken to do so. This in itself is not morally wrong, particularly if the laws being enforced are intended to deal with entirely different circumstances.

[/B]

Laws are there for a reason..... Its not a choice.

Thats like saying someones broken into my house - so I too can break the law and do something about it. Thats Anarchy I believe - Think about it.

And organising your own protest wont help matters just antagonise others and create other problems. Join in the organised protest its there to protect you too.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I've been considering a form of protest that is entirely non-violent but sends a clear and undeniable message straight to the conference attendees, right past their retinues and media hacks and into their cerebral cortex. Just need to refine a few basic principles, namely how to construct it and how to deploy it, but hey, I've got a fortnight......:cool:

I'm intrigued!

Originally posted by tim_rutter
I'm intrigued!

Yeah keep me informed :thumbsup:

Originally posted by aNTAcid
Yeah keep me informed :thumbsup:

...and me. :D

;)

Originally posted by technophobe
Laws are there for a reason..... Its not a choice.

Thats like saying someones broken into my house - so I too can break the law and do something about it. Thats Anarchy I believe - Think about it.

No. Anarchy is something totally different. Anarchy and anarchism is about having no rulers, not 'no rules'.

What you are describing is lawlessness.

Originally posted by technophobe
And organising your own protest wont help matters just antagonise others and create other problems. Join in the organised protest its there to protect you too.

hehe. What if everyone followed that advice? There wouldn't be a protest. Nice try, but I'm much cleverer than that :D

It is a choice, you have the individual freedom to break a law if you see fit.

If we weren't free to break the law we would all be automatons or ants.

This is a choice all of us have the right to make. Some people believe that transgressing a few minor laws (trespass, dispruption, blocking the highway) is worth it if other forms of demonstration are co-opted and emasculated.

The suffragettes certainly thought so, galileo thought so, the anatomists of the 18th century thought so, ghandi thought so, and this guy thought so too (http://www.unb.ca/democracy/English/Ideas/Consent/Civil/ImagesDisobedience/SelfImmolation2.jpg). I expect there was a cop standing behind him, waiting for the flames to go out so he could book him for arson.

In making these choices we are, for the most part, self policing. If we were not the police would need to outnumber the population.

It is illegal to break the law, but it is not axiomatically morally wrong.

Originally posted by technophobe
Laws are there for a reason..... Its not a choice.


Unfortunately not all laws are just and some need to be broken for the sake of freedom

Originally posted by aNTAcid
...for the sake of freedom
Who do you think you are, Mel Gibson?

Originally posted by foo_fighter
The Police are doing this to maintain safety and security, you will be allowed to “protest”, just not "wherever" you want.


You are greatly deluded if you think this is purely about safety.
You may not care about peoples democratic right to protest*, so I tried to put it into terms you may care about ie Foo Fighters, it’s shame you didn’t address my post directly instead of making a frivolous comment.


* I know you think agreeing to stand around in police enclosure counts as protesting but I don’t and it would be interesting to imagine what sort of a country we’d be living in know if groups like the Chartists had agreed to only protest in a manner which did not bring attention to the failings of the government.

Post removed.

Reason for posting now sorted.

Cheers...

...you know who you are.

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
No. Anarchy is something totally different. Anarchy and anarchism is about having no rulers, not 'no rules'.

What you are describing is lawlessness.

hehe. What if everyone followed that advice? There wouldn't be a protest. Nice try, but I'm much cleverer than that :D



Effectively its the same thing though.....

We all need parameters to live by - rules and regulations. Otherwise we'd end up like kids knowing no boundaries. Would you trust people to use 'common decency' as a guide. I wish we could! unfortunately not everyone is educated to that extent.

Oh by the way I like your location (correctional facility) it made me laugh! :D

Originally posted by technophobe
Effectively its the same thing though.....

No it's not. This a feature of English that causes a problem.

Most other languages do not make the linguistic connection between 'A Ruler' (archy) and 'rules' (laws) and have quite heterophonic words for both meanings.

The political philosophy of anarchy seeks to unite people in peace and tranquility, not abandon them to a state of lawless criminal rule.

When I heard on the news that Iraq is entering a state on anarchy I rushed to the TV to see if it was true, alas it was another example of the bastardisation of the term.

Originally posted by Edward
There are several points that need to be addressed here.

The first is about the G8 - that it is currently a loathsome body dedicated to preserving the current world economic order - an order that kills millions every year and robs two thirds of humanity of their dignity (the G8 members don't do this out of spite, but because they have no choice - if they gave up their power voluntarily, their economies would suffer and their government would be unseated). It's undemocratic, and can only be forced to do the right thing by an overwhelming display of popular will. That doesn't mean violence, and to assume it does displays a lack of imagination.

The second point is that the protests will not necessarily be violent. The vast majority of anti-G8 protests have been peaceful - but more media attention has been given to the violent protestors in an attempt to discredit them. Judging by the ignorant responses on this thread, this has been met with some measure of success (again, it's in the very nature of the media to work like this - you have to be a millionaire to own a newspaper, so how do you think the newspapers are going to react to a group acting against the interests of millionaires everywhere?).

The third point is that it's not just about your stance on the G8 - it's about your right to protest. Of course we could just stand on Devonshire Green, away from the actual meeting - but what would be the point? The point of the protest is that the prescence of so many angry people is felt by the members of the G8, and this influences their action. Why should we have to gratefully accept the inadequate offer the police have graciously made us? Why should we be made to feel like it's not our right to decide where we would like to protest in our own city? How are we, who have killed no-one, morally inferior to those who will be sitting in the meeting, deciding policies that will kill many, and rob many more of their rights? Apologies for length
Edward


Excellently put!


Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I guess the event was scheduled for Sheffield while the honorable member for Brightside was still home secretary.



I'd have dropped the "honorable";)...



Originally posted by foo_fighter
...it's just I'm not advocating destruction of other peoples property (even for a "good cause").:P


I'm sure you said Leeds was fair game in a previous post;).






Maybe someone could charter a light aircraft and do some "sky-writing" as in some RAF shows? That'd get media attention.

The again, what's the odds that getting any kind of flight plan over Sheffield during the "summit" would get approval??

we have a right to show our views in peacefull protests. As long as it is non violent direct action, there should not be a problem at all. But stopping protestors is absolutley ludicrous and i think we should protest against that!

Disgusting.

Think this whole sanitised protest thing is bad?

Wait until a few years' time, where you'll be required to hand over your – compulsary – ID card to the police as a guard against anti-establishment behaviour, before even being allowed to enter 'The Protest Zone' (sponsored by MTV, no food or drink to be brought into the arena).

Originally posted by sccsux
...I'm sure you said Leeds was fair game in a previous post ;) ...
Well, obviously that's still the case, it's OK if people want to wreck Leeds. :heyhey:

;)

This reminds me of the quote by JFK, think it goes something along the lines of:

"those who make peaceful protest impossible, make violent revolution inevitable"

:thumbsup:

It may be easy for a terrorist to mix in with otherwise decent people, you're right. So, then, shall we dispense with less political but equally if not more crowded events, such as football games? I hope not!

I think it's easy for apathetic people to think of protesters as "rent-a-mob," but if you'd actually been part of it all you'd realise that's not the case. Take May 1st, 2003, for example, when protesters led by the Anti Nazi League demonstrated against the BNP outside City Hall and the BNP showed, stood still, and filmed the protesters (supposedly to add them to Nazi/skinhead sites), only to be literally guarded by police who were shoving away protesters in what became an event all out of proportion.

Most people, apart from a very very small minority, protest because the issue is one that's important and they're passionate about it.

This protest is nothing like merely a meeting; as I said, it's a protest to protest for the right to protest. And oh yeah, protests are important, protests make history. Remember Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and all issues throughout history such as the suffragette movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-Vietnam war movement, and hey even the poll tax - which was led by people who didn't normally protest about anything other than things that blatantly directly effected them, and funnily enough was one of the most violent.

Originally posted by JayBaker
.....and funnily enough was one of the most violent.


Only 'cause "Mad Maggie" used the Police to an excessive degree;).



Hmmmmm.



I can see some similaraties here:o.

What hacks me off about it all, aside from the political ideas behind it, is that while this summit is on it's going to disrupt the city, and none of it will be of any benefit to us. OK, so there's the argument that it will bring in business from journalists staying in hotels (which are probably chain owned, not locally owned anyway), and it will 'publicise' Sheffield.

But is it really worth it? People like Condoleeza Rice are more likely to be wondering why they've been 'put up' in a Northern city rather than getting to spend a few days lording it up in The Cotswolds or some such place. And we've been sold several other things which were supposed to bring great benefits like the World Student Games and the National Centre for Popular Music. So I remain cynical on that one.

People living near the Marriott are going to suffer, as is anyone who uses the city centre. Even those of us who don't will more than likely be subject to three days of traffic chaos and cancelled buses. I'm not looking forward to it.

As for putting protestors into a 'pen', that's more likely to get people wound up who would never have been wound up in the first place. Or is that the purpose of it? Get the protestors angry so they do something stupid and then they can be made a show of in the media? Hmmm...

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Well, obviously that's still the case, it's OK if people want to wreck Leeds. :heyhey:

;)

Not surprised you keep dodging this point.
I’ll try and narrow it down for your even more.
Say as an avid Foo Fighters fan you have booked tickets for Leeds festival but due to concerns over a tiny minority vandalising the site the entire festival was cancelled and a proposal was made to relocate to Sheffield.

Would you demand the police take action to prevent the Foo fighters playing or would you be of the opinion that the majority should not have things ruined by an exaggerated minority.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
...Say as an avid Foo Fighters fan you have booked tickets for Leeds festival but due to concerns over a tiny minority vandalising the site the entire festival was cancelled and a proposal was made to relocate to Sheffield.

Would you demand the police take action to prevent the Foo fighters playing or would you be of the opinion that the majority should not have things ruined by an exaggerated minority.
If, due to safety and security concerns, the venue had to be moved, but the gig went ahead, I'd accept that.

That's the point to me, if people were more willing to be reasonable about things, there wouldn't be a problem.

Some of you want to protest, fine I "get that", the authorities have concerns about the locations you want to protest at, fine I "get that" too.

Again, that's the point, sorry, but you haven't got blanket support for expanding what's already allowed, that is what people are trying to tell you.

:)



NB. I'm deliberately moderating my tone so as not to overexcite some of the more (ahem) “passionate” members of the board. You know who you are. ;)

But the compromise on a protest march is that no protest march has been allowed at all, how is that a compromise but the police using the pretence of security to stop any protest letting the G8 know just how unpopular they are in Sheffield.


We’re not talking about a gig being relocated but cancelled all together.

Jarrow, standing in a pen.
or
Million man, milling about in a police cordon.

Doesn’t quite work does it.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
But the compromise on a protest march is that no protest march has been allowed at all, how is that a compromise but the police using the pretence of security to stop any protest...
OK, as far as I understand it you are correct insofar as you are not currently being offered the opportunity to "march", but that wasn't really on the agenda for the previous 13 (?) pages anyway.

I understand that you want to protest ( or maybe even "protest to protest for the right to protest" :confused: ), and you are being allowed to do that (although not "wherever" you wish).

You've now started adding the word "march" to the discussion, why is it important to you to "protest march" rather than just "protest"?

:suspect:

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
...We’re not talking about a gig being relocated but cancelled all together...
This has already been discussed, and (IMO) they are "relocating the gig" (to use your analogy), they're saying, you can protest at Devonshire Green, but not outside Cutlers Hall, nor in the Peace Gardens, etc., etc. That is a compromise on location (or at worst relocation), not cancellation (IMO).

:)

Originally posted by foo_fighter they're saying, you can protest at Devonshire Green, but not outside Cutlers Hall, nor in the Peace Gardens, etc., etc. That is a compromise on location (or at worst relocation), not cancellation
Well thats nonsense! Tantamount to cancellation, is it not?!

"You have the right to protest, but only to protest in an area which we deem appropriate".

Thats like - a protest about McDonalds - being staged outside a Pizza Hut.

A protest about London - being held in Glasgow.

Surely one of the whole points about protesting is the association of the protest and the protested against.

Separate the two, and it becomes pointless. Which, of course, is the whole motive.

Originally posted by Henrietta
...Thats like - a protest about McDonalds - being staged outside a Pizza Hut.

A protest about London - being held in Glasgow...
We are talking about the G8 taking place in Sheffield, the "protesters" want to "protest" in Sheffield city centre, and the approved venue is in Sheffield city centre.


I fail to see what's "nonsense" about that...

...for the millionth time, stop exaggerating!

;)

Originally posted by Henrietta
Well thats nonsense! Tantamount to cancellation, is it not?!

"You have the right to protest, but only to protest in an area which we deem appropriate".

Thats like - a protest about McDonalds - being staged outside a Pizza Hut.

A protest about London - being held in Glasgow.

Surely one of the whole points about protesting is the association of the protest and the protested against.

Separate the two, and it becomes pointless. Which, of course, is the whole motive.


I and several others agree entirely. We've been running around in circles a bit on this point...it seems to come down to whether you think that protesting is standing with a board with slogan OR standing/marching with a board with slogan AND being noticed by the people. And more importantly whether you think that the restrictions that are being applied are excessive and tantamount to repression or a reasonable on the grounds of safety.

Just goes to show that the illusion that we live in a democracy is just that, an illusion, only sustained when it is convenient for the ruling forces

it makes me deeply sad to see the replies from so many people who seem to think that they live in a democracy, and that this is under some kind of threat by some mysterious forces

it's a farce, and just goes to show how successful the lies have been - the lies that we live in a democracy, that we normal people can influence govermental policies and direction, and that we are somehow threatened by "terrorism"

the biggest threats to us are the terrorist actions perpetrated by our so called governments - economical, environmental, and otherwise

Originally posted by Henrietta
...it's a farce, and just goes to show how successful the lies have been...
In your opinion. :gag:



I sometimes wonder how some people sleep at night, do you wake up at night screeming "They're coming to get me!"

:suspect:



Calm down dear. :D

Originally posted by foo_fighter
>snip<
Remove your blinkers, foo_fighter

Originally posted by foo_fighter
In your opinion. :gag:


Which we're all entitled to. You have quite correctly stated your opinions and then made sure that they have been cemented in place throughout the entirety of this thread. Perhaps its time you moved aside and let people air their views without intimidation.

This has gone around in circles. Foo-fighter, you don't seem to grasp that people want to protest "to" the G8, where they will actually be, not just penned in a field where it won't register.

I've also noticed that the more people who come on here and put a reasoned argument to you, the more you respond with having a cheap dig and a range of emoticons.

Face it, people want to protest and should have the right to. And before you say they do, no they don't. Placed in a field is pointless and a waste of everyone's time. It's precisley actions like this what will be more likely to enrage people and spur them on to cause vandalism than allowing legitimate protests at the actual event.

Originally posted by Henrietta
Remove your blinkers, foo_fighter

No chance, on this issue he has clearly demonstrated that his opinions and replies are retarded.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
...Perhaps its time you moved aside and let people air their views without intimidation.
What intimidation?

Your paranoia at the world is seeping out here. ;)





As I said earlier today,
Originally posted by foo_fighter
NB. I'm deliberately moderating my tone so as not to overexcite some of the more (ahem) “passionate” members of the board. You know who you are. ;)
it seems like the "passionate" members have now got out of bed, and joined the discussion.

I am even managing to remain quite "light-hearted" and enjoy a few quips, some people however don't seem to grasp that this is an open forum, and you have no control over what other people post.

Isn't it interesting who wants to limit what other people say, even mentioning what would or wouldn't be said "face-to-face", but of course, that wasn't intimidation, couldn't be could it, not from a “pacifist”.

:suspect:

Foo fighter thanks for your message and support annie66

Originally posted by boyface
...I've also noticed that the more people who come on here and put a reasoned argument to you, the more you respond with having a cheap dig...
Yeh, you're right, I should learn to discuss this unemotionally, and eloquently like your "mates":
Originally posted by venger
...he has clearly demonstrated that his opinions and replies are retarded...
Originally posted by aNTAcid
...Its' like having an argument with a 9 year old...
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
What intimidation?

Your paranoia at the world is seeping out here. ;)





As I said earlier today,

it seems like the "passionate" members have now got out of bed, and joined the discussion.

I am even managing to remain quite "light-hearted" and enjoy a few quips, some people however don't seem to grasp that this is an open forum, and you have no control over what other people post.

Isn't it interesting who wants to limit what other people say, even mentioning what would or wouldn't be said "face-to-face", but of course, that wasn't intimidation, couldn't be could it, not from a “pacifist”.

:suspect:

I'm not going to answer this crap foo_fighter, you seem to have formed some quite ridiculous conclusions from my posts.

I think you posted this in the wrong place, but not to worry.
Originally posted by annie66
Foo fighter thanks for your message and support annie66
No problem annie66, just look after yourself as best you can at this diffacult time.

Regards, ff.

:)


(Sorry everybody else about that "off topic" moment.) :blush:

Originally posted by boyface
...I've also noticed that the more people who come on here and put a reasoned argument to you...
Ooh, another, like this you mean:
Originally posted by tim_rutter
I'm not going to answer this crap foo_fighter.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Ooh, another, like this you mean:

Very clever mate. You astound me everytime with your witty remarks. this could quite easily go on all day.

Originally posted by tim_rutter
...this could quite easily go on all day.
Perhaps even longer. ;)



OK, in-case you missed it earlier (before you "got up" no-doubt), I’ve edited together what I was saying, consider this a “directors cut”.


I understand that you want to protest ( or maybe even "protest to protest for the right to protest" ), and you are being allowed to do that (although not "wherever" you wish).

The authorities are saying, you can protest at Devonshire Green, but not outside Cutlers Hall, nor in the Peace Gardens, etc., etc. That is a compromise on location (or at worst relocation), not cancellation (IMO).

That's the point to me, if people were more willing to be reasonable about things, there wouldn't be a problem.

Some of you want to protest, fine I "get that", the authorities have concerns about the locations you want to protest at, fine I "get that" too.

Again, that's the point, sorry, but you haven't got blanket support for expanding what's already allowed, that is what people are trying to tell you (of which I am clearly the most vocal).

:)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Sorry everybody else about that "off topic" moment.) :blush:
Why apologise for something you wanted us all to see - when you could have quite easily sent it via a private message?!

Originally posted by Henrietta
Why apologise for something you wanted us all to see - when you could have quite easily sent it via a private message?!
If you'd care to look before shouting your mouth off, you'd see I was responding to annie66, a new user, with less than the required number of posts to either send, or receive PMs, who had posted in the wrong place.

I responded where the posting would be seen by her, pointed out this was in the wrong place, and apologised.

Get over it you muppet!

:mad:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
>snip< :mad:
Hahaaha, 'Calm down dear. :D '

Foo_fighter,
having the the protest on Dev Green is a compromise, you're right. But it's a very one-sided compromise, and an unsatisfactory one. This is the challenge that you have consistently failed to answer satisfactorily. It defeats the purpose of the demonstration to confine it to a spot well-removed from the ministers with whom we wish to register our dissent. They won't be able to see or hear us from Devonshire Green. That really rips the heart out of the protest.

And what of our right to protest freely? The police have hardly reached an amicable compromise with the demonstration's organisers, they have told us that if we don't do as they say, we will be met with "force and arrests". They're unilaterally curtailing a very important right.

You might say that they're compromising in that they're at least allowing us to stand stock still (in a pen) on Devonshire Green for a couple of hours. They haven't banned the protest altogether because that would be almost impossible to enforce and it would lead to a much greater wave of protest against such a draconian measure. They're limiting us to Dev Green because they think they can get away with it. "They think they can get away with it". That doesn't mean "We have agreed to compromise on this point".

You haven't answered any of these points, indeed you seem to have misrepresented the last one entirely.

On a final note, what do you think of the G8? Do you have perfect confidence in the benevolence of our government's motives and in those of the other 7 most powerful nations in the world? Do you reckon they're getting together to discuss how to make the world a more democratic place, or merely discussing as much reform as is necessary to maintain their power and avert massive popular protest?
Edward

If the police were to let you protest anywhere u want- where would you do it?

Originally posted by Edward
On a final note, what do you think of the G8? Do you have perfect confidence in the benevolence of our government's motives and in those of the other 7 most powerful nations in the world? Do you reckon they're getting together to discuss how to make the world a more democratic place, or merely discussing as much reform as is necessary to maintain their power and avert massive popular protest?
Edward [/B]

Edward: As you have written so well here and I understood every word (sometimes not easy when politics are being discussed). Would you be please tell me what you think they are discussing. Maybe its me but I thought this was a meeting to discuss War against Terrorism? I am not being sarcastic in anyway and am honest to say that although I have some knowledge (views) on politics do not feel in a position to spout. there are however, some people on here who obviously think there is some hidden agenda???

I understand that the average citizen doesnt know what really goes off behind closed doors, but I actually think they are planning on discussing ways of dealing with terrorism. Is this not the case?

How should our nations be dealing with this issue? - if you are to answer one question of mine please answer this one.

Please dont give me a politicians answer about the government being as bad as the terrorists - I would like to know how Terrorism should be dealt with. We cant think that by leaving them alone they will cease! I honestly dont think that will ever happen.

:confused:

Originally posted by scottf
If the police were to let you protest anywhere u want- where would you do it?

probably static demonstrations/pickets at the Cutlers Hall and Millenium Gardens, and at the Marriot.

Anywhere in front of the international TV & Press

Originally posted by Edward
...it's a very one-sided compromise, and an unsatisfactory one. This is the challenge that you have consistently failed to answer satisfactorily. It defeats the purpose of the demonstration to confine it to a spot well-removed from the ministers with whom we wish to register our dissent. They won't be able to see or hear us from Devonshire Green. That really rips the heart out of the protest.

And what of our right to protest freely? The police have hardly reached an amicable compromise with the demonstration's organisers, they have told us that if we don't do as they say, we will be met with "force and arrests". They're unilaterally curtailing a very important right.

You might say that they're compromising in that they're at least allowing us to stand stock still (in a pen) on Devonshire Green for a couple of hours. They haven't banned the protest altogether because that would be almost impossible to enforce and it would lead to a much greater wave of protest against such a draconian measure. They're limiting us to Dev Green because they think they can get away with it. "They think they can get away with it". That doesn't mean "We have agreed to compromise on this point".

You haven't answered any of these points, indeed you seem to have misrepresented the last one entirely...
OK, I do take the points you are making, and I’m sure from your point of view the situation is a long way from ideal…

…and neither is it a satisfactory compromise from your point of view…

…but is that not the very nature of compromises, in essence they suit neither party.

You aren’t happy about this point, I understand that, and your reasons, but I feel that a reasonable course of action is being taken.

As for “curtailing rights”, again, IMO I don’t think they are, I simply think that you aren’t getting “what you want”, in my mind that’s the difference, and it’s one that (in this case) I’m willing to live with, as are a number of other respondents on this thread.

At any rate, much of this discussion will now be superseded by the far greater publicity afforded to “Live 8”, and the route of protest that this particular “avenue” opens. If anything removes the chances of the media covering your protest, it will be the over-reliance on this particular event by an increasingly lazy media engine, not by the effects of a “state cover-up”.

Originally posted by Edward
...On a final note, what do you think of the G8? Do you have perfect confidence in the benevolence of our government's motives and in those of the other 7 most powerful nations in the world?...
That’s an extremely large point indeed (and one that really should be addressed in it’s own “thread”), do we trust the G8, well, no, not really…

…but is it in our best interests to be one of the G8, and be represented within the group, I would suggest it is.

Originally posted by Edward
...Do you reckon they're getting together to discuss how to make the world a more democratic place, or merely discussing as much reform as is necessary to maintain their power and avert massive popular protest?
The Sheffield meeting is about “Home affairs and Terrorism”, not “making the world a better place", so is your question directed at the Sheffield meeting, or the later “full” G8 meeting, I would suggest the latter, and that is of course where you will obtain much more publicity protesting anyway (see the above “Live 8” caveat however).