Hello everyone,

I live in the Nether Edge area of Sheffield and I am looking for work that I can do from home. I have looked in Sheffield Star and written to all people who advertise and its all Kleeneze.

Does anyone know of any companies who offer a work from home job ? I don't really consider walking around sheffield delivering catalogues working from home :loopy:

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I know some people who may have some work going.
Have you got any b2b sales history?
Or any IT work history?

Pete i know somebody with good IT skills who is looking for home work (very clever girl). Drop me a PM if there are still positions open.

There used to be a section in Exchange and Mart that listed business opportunities and some of those were for home working.

Most of the genuine offers will be like this, I expect, though you might find the odd bit of administration work, such as word processing or IT work.

I think one of the problems with homeworking is that a lot of companies will only allow someone to do that once they've built up a trust in you - in many cases it tends to be long established employees who can start doing their own paperwork at home rather than working from home full time.

The best home job I ever saw was a company who wanted people to scour teletext all day and copy the ads for holidays ready for inclusion on a website. It was paying about 8/hr, but that was back in around 1996 - would be a nice way to spend an evening otherwise filled with mindless TV though :)

Regards,

Jonathan

I know some people who may have some work going. Have you got any b2b sales history? Or any IT work history?

Im dont have any business to business sales experience but I have loads of IT experience. One thing I have been doing from home is building PCs for my friends and doing repairs. I also have some web site development and programming skills, as well as the usual stuff like word and excel. I also have alot of customer service skills.

Hi, I work from home in Sheffield and I can definitely give you some guidance - my own website is http://www.real-work-from-home.co.uk but I can give you general guidance since I've been successfully building a business from home for the last 2 years.

Have a look at the site for my contact details - give me a call and I can give you some pointers.

Cheers

Brian

Whoop, whoop! Multi level marketing alert!

Have a look here as well http://www.herbalifereport.tk/ :thumbsup:

:loopy:
Gee thanks for that useful link Vanblast... I'd be looking for someone successful to copy though... it's amazing how inventive people get when they're looking for something or someone else to blame for their failure.

There are only three reasons I know of for failing in Herbalife
1) Not enough Desire to improve your situation...
2) Not able to put your ego to one side long enough to learn from successful people...
3) Crap work habits and not enough of 1 or 2 to change them.

Sorry if that's too real or too honest for you but I'm aiming to cut the hype and help people who want a chance to work from home in Sheffield.

You can help a thousand people but you can't carry three on your back.

p.s. here are a few people we have personally helped at
www.real-life-success.co.uk

Cheers

Brian

When oh when will Pyramid schemes be banned? Seriously it's clear that they prey on the less educated who cannot afford to feed the few people at the top who will ever make any money. The success 'alert_bri' is talking about is conning people into believing the business is sustainable long enough for him to make enough money before the Pyramid collapses. If that is success to you, being dishonest (i presume you understand the maths behind these schemes?) conning people out of their money with false claims of profit. If you actually believe the videos you have been shown and the Herbalife mantra then i apologise you are just a victim, please read the links below and look more closely in to what you have been told. If not, SHAME on you, i hope you can sleep at night, your no more than a con man. Feeding people false dreams. Get a real job and stop trying to get rich quick from other more ignorant people than you.

There are enough stupid people out their to feed these get rich quick schemes. But don't you realise it's normally people who can ill afford it? People who may have families, children, the world is full of people who have fallen for these schemes and are too embarrassed to admit it. Yeah i am sure the case studies of people earning loads of money are true, but how many people are loosing money and feeding up the pyramid to make them that money?

Of course this is TWICE as bad, not only are they ripping people off (as they have done in the US for years) but they are doing it with a product that not only does not work, but is bad for your health. The product will be banned before long, so i advise you not to waste you money on ANY get rich scheme. The best one i have ever heard of was simple, put an add in the paper saying 'Get rich quick send $5 for info leaflet' when you send in your money the leaflet just says 'Put an add in the paper asking for £5 for a leaflet that will help you get rich quick'. At least that was MORE honest than what the pyramid marketers like Herbalife are doing, and less dangerous. Rather than get angry about high taxation, why not come down on the people who are taxing the stupid.

Here are some other 'testimonials' about Herbalife -
"My husband and I spent over $8,000.00 in this business through inventory, promotions, "trainings," travel, and marketing. We blame ourselves for our ignorance, but feel that it was the obligation of Herbalife International and our upline support, to inform us of all the costs. That means the marketing costs, and before having us sign on the bottom line."

http://www.rickross.com/reference/herbalife/herbalife12.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/herbalife/herbalife9.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/herbalife/herbalife_lawsuit.htm

There may be some justice (and irony) that this man who conned so many people died of an overdose of anti-depressants. I hope that was his conscience catching up with him.

Originally posted by back2basics
The best one i have ever heard of was simple, put an add in the paper saying 'Get rich quick send $5 for info leaflet' when you send in your money the leaflet just says 'Put an add in the paper asking for £5 for a leaflet that will help you get rich quick'. At least that was MORE honest than what the pyramid marketers like Herbalife are doing, and less dangerous.

Hey, you've just sunk my home business!

The great thing about that scheme is that it works, and it is not a con of any description whatsoever! And you don't have to pay a fiver for the info now B2B has spilled the beans.

LOL sorry fella! We may laugh but people have (and still are) making millions of pounds from scams like that. Everybody wants to get rich quick after all, and the lazy people who do will often get caught out several times before they realise there are no easy ways out. But a little birdie told me that you can earn more money by selling magnets and telling people they have great health benefits, or they age wine. Thats the *real* growth area in the pseudo-science/con man business. Or just go old-school and learn cold reading, there are more people out there that believe in the occult than do not, so thats always been a good one. Prey on people who have recently had a bereavement, thats a very moral pursuit. I somehow get the feeling that you have more morals than that though :)

Back2basics - I agree with your comments but I think you have to be careful accusing Herbalife of being a pyramid sceme because it isn't in the strictest sense - though the maths are very similar.

To be fair they do have a product to sell which tradidtional pyramid schemes don't - they just redistribute money.

I think it is worth pointing out that really the only way to make money through such schemes as Herbalife or Amway (which is far more scarey - they even tell you how to dress) is NOT through selling their products.

There are two ways. The first is by getting other people to sell the products because you then get a commission and the second, which is often overlooked is selling marketing materials. These companies produce hundreds of books, videos, pamphlets and evangelical meetings to motivate their staff, all for a profit of course.

Be careful out there. :thumbsup:

Hi guys,

I won't take offence at your opinions because I work and teach to work on what are known to be facts. That takes time, patience and hard work - my own health results and those of my clients and loved ones... and my own income and freedom of time and that of people I am helping...

Pyramid selling is already illegal - I hate scams and hype more than most because they attach themselves to legitimate models of marketing which are efficient, ethical and fair. This gives cover to all sorts of nonsense opinion which we hear.

This site (although nothing to do with Herbalife) has links to two flash presentations which are very informative.

"Learn How the Wealthy Get That Way"
and
"Brilliant Compensation"

http://www.thisbusinessforyou.com/compensate101.htm

I hope you find them of value.

Cheers;)

Learn How to Work From Home (http://www.real-work-from-home.co.uk) in Sheffield. No Hype - Just Facts.

Hey Brian

I am sure the flash presentations would be very informative but I just get the error message 'The account holder of the movie you're trying to view does not have an active account. '

I also found these links which are 'interesting'...

http://www.explorefreedom.com/lcotham/index.cfm?PageID=page1

http://www.explorefreedom.com/pstramer/

http://www.yourfortunemaker.com/leecotham.htm


http://www.explorefreedom.com/victory/ (http://www.explorefreedom.com/victory/)

http://www.value4life.com/

http://www.eurcall.com/

etc, etc, etc.

Now call me an old cynic but one of the accusations of multi-level marketing (perhaps I should say network marketing which seems to be the new buzz word) is that it is, erm, pyramid shaped. That means you get a hell of a lot of people at the bottom and the market tends to get saturated. Don't these sites seem to indicate that point somewhat?

Anyway, I'd love to be proved wrong so if you have anymore links I'll have a look.

Hi Vanblast,

as I said - I have no connection with the site other than spotting the excellent flash presentations referenced... thank you SO much for finding so many alternative sites which...

a) Have functional references to these excellent informative movies (have you watched them yet Vanblast, back2basics?)

b) demonstrate that this is a business of duplication where a new starter has all the benefits of the research, development and effort of the team they are joining. You know - a bit like McDonalds or Esso or all the other franchises which people spend loads of money on - to see a return when?

In this business I can show you how to make money in a few hours providing you're a nice person. Unfortunately I can't help jerks - this is a business where nice guys come first!

Thanks again - it's good to talk on a civil level.

p.s. when you've watched Brilliant Compensation you'll have the answer to your Pyramid question ;)

Learn How to Work From Home in Sheffield (http://www.homeworking-opportunities.info). No Hype - Just Facts

Hello Brian

Just realised this topic has gone waaay off the subject of Sheffield (sorry for boring everyone), so I'll stop it right here.

I'll PM you with any further questions :)

No problem - my original reply was to offer helpful advice - just had to defend myself when the mud started flying!

Cheers Matey!

Bri :thumbsup:

Learn How to Work From Home in Sheffield. No Hype - Just Facts

What facts? Sub links do not work, no details of products.... Why don't you explain on the site rather than requesting a phone call or sending email for further information?

Before getting involve please read this (http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/workfromhome_s.html)

I sell barge pole much cheaper, do you want to buy one? :loopy:

I give 15% discount if you want to be BP (Barge Pole) Agent....

Hi John,

everything you read on my site is a fact. All the sub-links work and I do explain everything on the site - for people who are genuinely looking for my help working from home in Sheffield or indeed anywhere in the UK.

Unfortunately (for those who are just curious) the site is designed to convey the facts about what happened to us when we took it seriously, went to work and changed our quality of life. If you want to know how that would work for you personally then you have to qualify for my help - i.e. ask nicely :)

We want to build a business with a future - one that will look after us and our loved ones for the rest of our life - that requires us to work smart i.e. not waste too much time with the people who want to 'get rich quick' without working... the site does a great job of filtering out those who are just curious - they move on without calling or filling out the form!

It's really your call - if you're happy with your life and future as it looks then FANTASTIC - all power to you. If you are not happy with the way things are for you and you're prepared to do something about it then we may get along - FANTASTIC we both get to work together to make some money and help loads of people.

I've seen the Cockeyed Report - it's a very clever piece of satire designed to attract loads of internet traffic to sell t-shirts, merchandising etc and it's very well constructed.

That's life - I can't do anything about it so I concentrate on helping people one at a time - people like Paul Revill (http://www.paulrevill.info) for instance who came over to my house for a cup of tea and a chat, worked on facts and has made excellent progress ever since!

Anyway - I'm happy to promote what we do here but I'd rather follow Vanblast's advice once the mud stops flying :thumbsup:

Work From Home in Sheffield (http://www.real-work-from-home.co.uk) - No Hype - Just Facts.

Right, your 'helping people one by one'. You know that the ONLY way you will make money is recruiting loads of people BELOW you. It's a scam, people have been running similar scams for decades, it's nothing new, no need to try and make it out as anything but.

Although you may discount one of the other links as propaganda, one of the links i posted was a legal case in the US. It's official documentation about how the scam works. They cannot get away with it in America anymore as it's been all over the press, so they are trying Europe.

As i said i hope you can sleep at night as you obviously understand how it works and what you need to do (recruit people below you and NOT sell the product as that wouldn't make you enough to survive). Preying on people who can ill afford it is a bad thing. Also i would assume that this product is an Ephedrine type product that claims to loose you weight? Ephedrine has been banned in the US, it's dangerous to the heart. It's especially dangerous if taken by somebody overweight or obese (the very people who use it) and put simply for most people it will never work. Even if it does for you and you want to buy it, you can buy it anywhere for MUCH less than a distributed/pyramid marketing scam company ever will be able to. Simply because for every bottle sold, everybody up the line get's paid. In order to do this the company has to charge 100%+ mark-up, where as a shop does not (you can buy Ephedrine for a few pounds a bottle and multi vitamins are just a few pounds, much cheaper that Herbalife). And it's just vitamins and ephedrine and they try to charge you lot's of money. Our friend here isn't bothered about selling us the product, just recruiting people to rip off so he can make a profit.

Please don't try to make it out like you are doing the world a service. If thats what you want, go and become a nurse or something. Don't try and rip people off. If it was up to me people like you would be locked up. Not only are you ripping people off and making false claims of weight loss, but you could be ruining and endangering lives. Thats pretty low, go and get a real job and contribute to society rather than taking from it.

Here are the only trials ever done on Herbalife, and an article telling you what to expect from the sales pitch -

Data, results and conclusions of the Belgian consumers research about
Herbalife:

Description of Herbalife:
Herbalife is an American enterprise, founded in 1980 by Mark Hughes,
producing a number of dietary products: e.g. a replaceable meal in
powder-form and several pills.

Promotion of Herbalife:
The whole package is being promoted as the best sustainable method to
become thin.

In reality:
In reality the range of these products are nothing more than an alibi to
construct a world-wide sales system with immense turn-over.

Marketing:
The sale-system of Herbalife is exclusively through informal contacts:
the so-called multi-level marketing, or, maybe better said:
piramide-selling.

Explanation of the marketing system:
The product is offered to you by somebody you know, or you are invited
to come to Herbalife-meetings. The way to make money is to sell as many
Herbalife-products as you can yourself. The best way to sell as many
Herbalife-products is to ask other people to sell the products for you.
In this way the chain is formed. The higher your position in the chain
is the more money you make. But ... of course only a few people are the
real-money makers.

The product:
The contents of the Herbalife-powder: an overdose of vitamins and
minerals, and some proteins, fibres and sugars. Nothing revolutionary!
The pills contain vitamins and other supplements.

Costs:
Costs in Belgium: at least 2400 francs (1994) (appr. US$ 90,-) for a
package of five products. Monthly costs appr. 6000 francs (=appr. US$
200,-); So it is expensive to be hungry!

Effects?
Does Herbalife help in losing weight? Not in a sustainable way! In the
beginning some weight is lost (which is the case in most of the 1000
calories diets: who eats little looses weight!), and a general loss of
energy and activity is experienced. The chance that a longer-term loss
of weight is established in very small.

Danger?
Is Herbalife dangerous? Because this way of loosing weight is quite
heavy (only 1000 calories per day) it should only happen under doctors'
surveillance (Belgium situation). The pills have no value whatsoever,
they only contain -useless- vitamins (spending the money on fruit seems
more advisable!).
The danger is in the method of selling: at Herbalife-gatherings people
come telling that Herbalife saved them from life-threatening diseases,
and this is told to you by somebody you know and trust. Who is fooled?
In order to make money in the Herbalife-business you have to find other
people who sell the product for you, otherwise you will never make
money.

Aggressive marketing:
The marketing of Herbalife is however very aggressive. In convincing
people to use Herbalife Herbalife-users use all kinds of arguments:
including those that Herbalife helps against artrosis, high blood
pressure, astmas, skin problems, diabetes, cancer etc. These people even
have documents available.

Other inaccuracies:
- no contra-indications for children whatsoever; such a diet can be very
dangerous for children
- no contra-indications for people with kidney diseases, liver- and
stomach-diseases
- Herbalife provides information that health workers recommend the use
of Herbalife. This is simply not true (at least not here in Western
Europe: the product is not sold in the pharmacy, or grocery-store)
- Herbalife claims to alter eating habits. This is not true: eating
habits are not changed by powder-diets.

http://brian.carnell.com/articles/2002/03/000046.html

Friday, March 29, 2002

Boing!Boing! pointed to this long article by a person in Sacramento that starts out being about ugly signs offering a work-at-home scam and ends up being about Herbalife.

After college, my first job was working for a hospital laundry. The laundry had very little handle on its inventory and bought a half-assed system to try to keep better track of it. The whole system was a disaster, and it was my job to get it to work.

I had to work regularly with the manager of the linen facility at a hospital, and this guy was one of those goofballs who it is extremely difficult to fathom how he ever rose to the management level. The guy was a schemer with lots of ideas and wacky business ideas and not a whole lot of brains or persistence to actually follow through.

One of the things he constantly pestered me about was Herbalife. He was constantly telling me about all the weight he was losing as well as trying to get me involved with the MLM scam/scheme. I thought it was inappropriate, but that pretty much summed my view of everything this guy did.

Finally, though, I just wanted to get him to shut up so I agreed to go to his little MLM meeting. If you've never been to one of these things, they are really fascinating (but if you're going to go, do like I do and make sure you don't bring any form of money with you -- I had like five dollars in my pocket, and that was probably to much around these folks).

The entire evening was half revival meeting and half the most manipulative sales pitch you'll likely experience. The whole idea is basically a scam -- there is no way in hell the people like the laundry manager are ever going to get rich. On the other hand, though, the very tiny number of people who are able to convince their friends and complete strangers to throw their money into this are like the sharks of the sales world -- there's nobody better nor more vicious.

The leader of this event looked like a 45-year-old Tom Cruise who was doing too much Herbalife. He was thin to the point of bordering on gaunt. He looked a little bit like a world class long distance runner, except from his skin complexion it was obvious he was probably following a drastic diet to keep his weight low to impress the people he was pitching.

And the guy was slick. Too slick. Con man slick. Michael Douglas in Wall Street slick. He gave some very spirited talk about all the money he had made, the vacations he had taken, the cars he owned, etc., etc. Then, of course, when he's done he announces some special offer just for newcomers like myself. For something approaching $1,000 we can get $1,500 worth of merchandise to sell, and they start with the nonsensical litany of uplines and downlines or whatever the terminology was.

The cool thing about not having any money with you is you can let the full effect of this hit you. It's interesting just how easily some people can use your fears and hopes to manipulate you. I could see why people would find this sort of pitch attractive, even though you'd have to be insane to say yes and put up your money.

The sad thing was that while the laundry manager is pulling out all the stops trying to convince me (and, of course, I have to make my decision right now), it's pretty clear that the big guy is manipulating him. The laundry manager wasn't a bad salesman but he never was very convincing -- and fell hook, line and sinker for the big guy's pep talks about what a great salesman he was and how determination and drive could make him rich.

Finally, after listening to the pitch several times and refusing several times the meeting is over and I am out of there. Walking out feels like you've been trapped in a cave underground for a year and are finally being allowed to see the light of day.

And, of course, I drive straight to the library because now I'm very curious. Of course, this was the early 1990s and by then Herbalife had already had run-ins with various legal authorities over illegal and dangerous ingredients in its products, tax problems by its founder, and all sorts of other issues. It wasn't a pretty picture.

The next day I have to drive out to the hospital, and while I'm there hand this guy a manila folder asking him if he's aware of the previous investigations of Herbalife, not to mention all the crap that is in these supplements he's popping because Herbalife tells him they're all natural and they're cleansing his body.

And the color completely leaves his face. For an instant he has this look that is just priceless. This guys's spent thousands of dollars of his money, persuaded family and friends to get involved, and he hasn't even done even a cursory investigation of Herbalife. He's screwed.

But he recovers pretty quickly. He's hooked. I could have just shown him pictures of his wife with the big guy and he'd still be convinced that Herbalife is going to make him rich. I explain to him that even if I wanted to take Herbalife -- which I most certainly do not -- I could not because the products were chock full of ephedrine (although, consistent with its business practices, Herbalife never listed ephedrine in the ingredients list).

At which point he turns to me, very sincerely -- he's not trying to insult me at all, he clearly feels sorry for me -- and asks, "So you're just going to have to stay fat?" Which is when it hits me that this guy is totally dominated by his own fears. Fear of being fat, fear of not having enough money, fear of not being as successful as other people, and he's the perfect sucker for this scam.

I have no idea whatever happened to him. A couple months, later I couldn't take that job anymore and quit. A couple years later I partially mastered my own weight problems and dropped 50 pounds (and I've kept it off) without having to throw hundreds of dollars after unhealthy supplements (it's amazing what giving up fast food and exercising once in a while will do).

Mark Hughes, who started Herbalife in the early 1980s, was not so lucky. He was found dead in August 2000 in the $27 million mansion that he had bought by suckering people. The 44-year-old apparently had all the money he could ever want but couldn't kick his alcoholism. He died after a four-day-long binge of drinking alcohol in combination with anti-depressants.

Hi back2basics,

congratulations on mastering cut and paste... however when you do that - i.e. base your opinion on another person's opinion then your foundations are crumbling around your feet. Take the time to research your subject properly and you may be able to construct a credible argument for your view-point.

to paraphrase Oren Ishi

"As your friend, I encourage you from time to time and always in a respectful manner to question my logic. If you're unconvinced a particular plan of action I've decided is the wisest tell me so... but allow me to convince you and I promise you right here and now no subject will ever be taboo... except of course the subject just under discussion.

The price you pay for bringing up my decision to persue a career in MLM as a negative is... I collect your reputation to string a cohesive argument together - just like this back2basics fella!"

"Now if any of you other lame brained opinion merchants got anything else to say - now's the time!"

"Thud... I didn't think so"

:D
(apologies to Quentin Tarrentino)

p.s. the true test of a legitimate MLM is being able to make money without sponsoring (as a responsible sponsor I don't recruit) - Herbalife passes that test perfectly well.

p.p.s. never make an assumption - it makes an ASS out of you and umption.

p.p.p.s. Work From Home In Sheffield (http://www.alert2wealth.co.uk). No Hype - Just Facts

Originally posted by alert_bri

p.p.p.s. Work From Home In Sheffield (http://www.alert2wealth.co.uk). No Hype - Just Facts

Well, a nice bit of spam too.

Spot the difference:

You cut & paste whereas I paraphrase. Both valid forms of research, I'd say. Perhaps you could ask your friends' opinions. Oh, sorry they're not friends are they? They're customers now.

Hi guys -

sigs are a conventional form of promotion... you'll see them all over this forum - as I said earlier once the mud stops flying... I'm happy to stop responding - is anyone calling you a con artist?

and max... really!

I'm sorry my paraphrase was too subtle for you.

I will responde here and not to your PM.

The phrase 'constructing your own reality' comes to mind. Just do the maths, it's very simple. If you had a got a real education, not only would you not be trying to con people out of money, you would understand that distributed marketing or Pyramid marketing is NOT financially viable. They ALL break down after several years, with many loosing investment. It's high school maths, very simple. In a shop they sell a product and pay their overheads (rent etc). In distributed marketing you costs are lower, but because you have to pay the person who introduced you, and he has to pay the person who introduced him (and so on) by the time you get down several levels the cost is prohibitive , but the person at the top of that branch is making quiet a bit of money. As i said you have made NO EFFORT to sell the product, you have even skirted about what the product is (apart from my PM have you even admitted it was Herbalife?). People must ask themselves why would he not want to sell the product, why does he only want to 'help' people out? Because there is no money in selling the product, the money comes when he has recruited lot's of people, who in turn recruit lot's of people.

This is no new system somebody has developed for wealth, your not in on some sort of private knowledge that will change the world. Pyramid marketing schemes are illegal in most places in the world. So they have been re-branded distributed marketing. As i said this is not disgruntled people, this is American LEGAL documents. There is a big difference.

Just look at the American Federal research that shows the detrimental health benefits of the product. Look at how many deaths have been caused by Ephedrine (especially in the overweight). One of the ingredients of your product was made illegal in America only a few weeks ago because of the amount of deaths associated with it. (a link to a story about it being banned in America http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3357895.stm).

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/alternative/11/06/ephedra.dangers/index.html

Here no cut and paste, and FDA (Fedral Drug Administration) report, found 31% of people had health problems when using it. 3 people dead, many heart attacks, hypertension, and stroke. And for what? Limited, short term weight loss? People who should avoid these products include people with high blood pressure, overactive thyroid, two thinks overweight people could have.
BTW i am not trying to convince you, your far too caught up in this for that, thinking of the money. Hopefully people will read this and not have anything to do with this two part scam. As i have said the product is too expensive, the marketing method is illegal, the product is dangerous and your telling people they can make unlimited earnings (most likely) and it's a lie. The World is an un ethical place, there are far to many people out there literally preying on the poor and uneducated people. Whether it's 'mediums' preying on people who have recently had a bereavement or people like you preying on the poor and overweight IMO you should all be locked up. Ephedrine is likely to be banned in the UK soon, that is when the pyramid will collapse.
Some more info from a court who slapped a $850,000 fine on Herbalife for using the illegal marketing scam, false advertising etc (link : http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Herbalife/herbalife04.html)
"To attract new distributors, the TV programs and company magazine contained stories of individuals who made large amounts of money by building large networks of Herbalife distributors. These representations are misleading because there is no reasonable basis to assert that most people who become distributors will earn large sums."
Here is a site that explains the problems with MLM (Multi level marketing as they call it in America), it explains the maths and why the system does not work.
http://www.mlmwatch.org/index.html

Also this is important reading, these are the lies they usually use to recruit people. Tealling you 20% of the worlds millionaires were made through MLM etc. It's all crap, don't fall for it.

http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlmlies.html

http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/10lies.html

Originally posted by alert_bri
p.p.s. never make an assumption - it makes an ASS out of you and umption.


you are an umption? what does that involve then?

hi back2basics,

well, at least you tried harder this time ;) I believe you may even have made up some of your own words this time - but based on what? where's your personal experience coming into this?

nevertheless you're all over the place with your assumptions again... and the volume of misinformation you're linking and pasting does not serve my purpose which WAS to

a) Offer advice based on my personal experience to "Pieface" - who said he was NOT looking for a work from home business but a work from home JOB...

b) Display my personal background which is on my personal website (http://www.brianmosley.info) which may also be of interest to others looking to work from home in Sheffield - but in a work from home business opportunity.

Unfortunately this was attacked by yourself and others who have a very strong opinion based on your own personal experience that this Business Opportunity could not possibly work... without the successful person deserving to be 'locked up'.

I can help you if you're interested in learning the truth but you're obviously on a mission to stay put in your ignorance. For that I pity you.

Unfortunately, as I said in my PM this is a public forum where I feel I must defend my own integrity and that of thousands of successful, hardworking Herbalife distributors who are improving the quality of their own lives and helping many, many people who need a way to improve their health without drugs, hormones and fad diets...

I will continue to respond in the interests of coming to a constructive and civilised conclusion to this thread - but perhaps this would be better conducted in a 'formal debate' since you and others have lowered yourself to personal insults.

I tried to meet you in a light hearted way in my last post but you're obviously too bitter to leave it at that. So be it.

I won't expect you to personally respond to why all these people (http://www.real-life-success.co.uk) are happy and successful or why the >1 million distributors in 58 countries around the world are prepared to take responsibility for their own success. Or why the wellness industry is the best hope we have of dealing with an epidemic of obesity which is galloping out of control and the pharmaceutical industry which responds with more and more drugs which deal with the symptoms without effecting a cure. If you're interested in the facts to back up this conclusion, check out The Next Trillion (http://www.nexttrillion.com) by Paul Zane Pilzer.

Instead of responding with more links to sour grapes I'll just ask you to consider the possibility that you are finding exactly what you're looking for - an excuse to stay put and have no hope of improving your situation... again I can see that will leave you plenty of time to twiddle around spreading ill-will towards those who are working for something better. But on the other hand you could grow up a bit and offer respect to those prepared to act on their convictions.

To every positive action there is an equal and opposite cynicism.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that amongst your assumptions and copied bile you are making wild claims that Herbalife products are unsafe. May I caution you against this type of behaviour.

I urge you to take personal responsibility for the material you post - if you are not sure of your material then think again before you risk ridicule or worse.

Read my sig.

Herbalife is UNSAFE! The active ingredient has been banned in the US, and has KILLED PEOPLE. The link to the CNN article shows the FDA's research. So come on sue me, i will PM you my details so you can get the party started if you want! This site wouldn't give you my details but i will offer them to you to make it nice and easy. But also sue the FDA (who have sued Herbalife) as they are the people who make the claims.

I would LOVE you to start legal proceeding against me, although i am very successful and not looking for get rich quick schemes (as you are) i could do with some money for nothing.

I will restate it again in bold Herbalife is unsafe for many people, it's too expensive, doesn't do what you are told it will

Back to the debate, can you post any INDEPENDENT links to research? I have posted FDA research which is independent of any company, maybe you could do the same? The sites you poster are linked to Herbalife, so they really don't count as 'truth'.

Sorry but you are a joke, and you still need locking up.

I will keep the board updated on the legal procedings, somehow i don't think they will appear.

p.s. backtobasics - here's the PM I sent to you last night - I was hoping you weren't on a mission to display your ignorance. Perhaps I was wrong and you're happier playing to an audience...


alert_bri wrote on 05-01-2004 10:06 PM:
Hi back2basics - just a quick note to say no hard feelings - really I have no axe to grind and it's really no problem to me what you say if you really believe it...

I have chosen to put my neck on the line on my website to prove that I'm on the level and what you see really is what you get.

I have to defend myself because it's a public forum and I really, honestly know what I'm talking about - I'm an engineer and I really left no stone unturned when I joined Herbalife 2 years ago.

While I appreciate there are a number of vociferous unhappy people who failed to build their Herbalife business and there are also big interests set against a wellness company making progress (i.e. fast food industry and pharmaceutical industry) I can only stand up and tell the truth as I know it. It's the real deal and we're helping people on a level I wish you could understand.

All I can say is, I'm not in this for the money anymore - it's way more important than that. I only hope you have or find something worth standing up for in your own life.

Very Best Wishes

Brian

Yes - it seems I was right - you do enjoy playing to an audience.

This is me http://www.brianmosley.info

Who are you?

How successful are you in your mission in life?

Who are you helping, specifically?

What are you trying to achieve, specifically which is unique and gives value to this world?

Really - I'm interested in YOU back2basics - perhaps I can be of some assistance in helping you reduce the pain in your head.

If not, then perhaps I can at least direct you to the appropriate authority :loopy:

Thats cool i don't mind you posting it, i was going to but decided against it. I did read it however.

I didn't respond because i have no interest in convincing you, just making sure people knew what a scam it is. I will also be writing a letter to our local MP, we have laws in this country that should stop people selling pseudo-scientific products with wild claims. I would like to see one of the local papers take this cause up as well so i will be forwarding relevant information to them as well.

Having researched this subject thoroughly, viz reading valid links to government sites which testify against your product and your anecdotal evidence I have a rough idea of what back2basics is trying to achieve. He's trying to save lives and stop people being conned by pyramid selling schemes.

alert_bri on the other hand is trying to achieve more money.

PS You can sue me too please as I am v successful but would not refuse easy money either.

Who are you?
Just a concerned citizen and a practicing sceptic. I would post my details, but due to recent spats with members of the BNP on this board i will not.

How successful are you in your mission in life?
Very.

Who are you helping, specifically?
Many people, right now people who could fall for the Herbalife international scam.

What are you trying to achieve, specifically which is unique and gives value to this world?
I try to be the best person i can. I have no pain in my head, i am very happy with who i am. I have been a bad boy, but now try to live a moral life. Morality... hmm it's a nice thing. To live a moral life you must go through life not hurting anybody else. This is why i feel i must comment on your scam. You see the only reason i want this in public (and it seems you don't) is i don't want more people hurt, and it seems you do. Herbalife (and related products) have done enough damage.

Really - I'm interested in YOU back2basics - perhaps I can be of some assistance in helping you reduce the pain in your head.
What else do you want to know? I am just a regular guy, no special interests. 30 years old, travelled the World enough to know there are people trying to feed off the poor, uneducated and weak everywhere and it needs to stop. It quiet frankly ****** me off, and if i see people trying to con others on a message board i will speak up. I also spent some time in the US, where i first heard about this product. You see it was ALL OVER the news, so i am just passing on my knowlege to people before they make a mistake.

Anybody with contacts at the local papers please PM them to me, i will deliver them all the research they need for nice little story.

back2basics - I wasn't asking to be convinced - just to stop the mud slinging when you're not dealing with a full deck.

And please invite me to any meeting with an MP I'm all for dealing with the problem of obesity and poor homeworking opportunities in Sheffield... at least that's ACTION back2basics - I can respect IF you're getting up from your keyboard and doing something...

And max, I suggest you take your research more seriously than just reading viz :(

Interesting you're both interested in easy money - perhaps that's where the sour grapes are coming from... were you disappointed when your chain letter scheme fell though?

Originally posted by alert_bri

And max, I suggest you take your research more seriously than just reading viz :(


And I suggest you read posts more carefully, before you go and make a fool of yourself.

Nomme

RPG: Back2Basics, Please do not post peoples personal information on the site

Come on Brian i dare you to make a claim about Herbalife. Does it make you loose weight? Is it good for any illnesses? Tell us a little about the product. ANYTHING, i know you won't because you cannot, that would be illegal. Prove me wrong.

As I said (including in my PM to you last night) - I've nothing to hide, no hidden agenda nothing...

I find it's the best way to deal with ignorance - be honest and work from the facts.

And thank you for the compliment but I'm just a small business owner! give us a few years though and we may even make a positive difference in Sheffield.

The www.real-life-success.co.uk (http://www.real-life-success.co.uk) website is to showcase real people who have benefited by these products. I think it's cool to see reality rather than 2nd hand opinion...

And I hope I'm giving value to the silent majority who are following this thread, rather than making a fool of myself. But it wouldn't be the first time :P

No claims then? I see you have put a disclaimer on real-life-sucsess that basically says you are making no claims about the product. So what does it actually do for us Brian? We pay you money for some pills right? And we take the pills? Apart from a racing heart beat, what other effects will these pills have?

What do we get for our money? Or do you only make those claims in person?

Originally posted by alert_bri


And I hope I'm giving value to the silent majority who are following this thread, rather than making a fool of myself. But it wouldn't be the first time :P

No - I think most people can see pyramid selling schemes for what they are, i.e. a con.

I'm sorry - we're obviously having a hard time communicating with each other here.

How can I actually help you? I agree with you. Pyramid selling schemes are a con - that's why they're illegal.

Honestly, I think some people can type and almost spell but can't actually read :(

Originally posted by alert_bri
I'm sorry - we're obviously having a hard time communicating with each other here.

How can I actually help you? I agree with you. Pyramid selling schemes are a con - that's why they're illegal.

Honestly, I think some people can type and almost spell but can't actually read :(

Err, yeah ok. Can you please briefly outline on this thread how your home working scheme works.

And it would also be useful for you to answer the question back2basics asked regarding your product and what it actually does. Thanks.:thumbsup:

OK Dug,

briefly, we help nice people (not jerks) to work from home for themselves. If you've ever tried to start a business for yourself you'll realise it can be very expensive, challenging and most people fail in their first year losing a lot of money in the process.
It is not easy.

Herbalife provides a proven method of operation to build a full sized business from the contents of a £75.00 International Business Pack and the support of a team of people working all around the world to help you learn how to be successful.

It's a bit like climbing a mountian - Herbalife has carved the steps up the side of the mountain and your sponsor is your guide - however you have to take the steps. You are working for yourself but not by yourself.

It's an amazing co-operative venture and you make loads of friends along the way because you're all going through the challenges with many friends at your level in the group.

It can be very tough when you bump into people like back2basics who suddenly become the worlds expert in why you're going to fail and the whole thing will never work. But it's been working and growing for the last >20 years now and we're not even scratching the surface of the market we're serving.

The main problem we have is reaching honest, decent people who want to work for their own future rather than for someone else. And then to protect them from the cynics with solid support and good information long enough for them to make some serious money which tends to make the cynics shut up and ask for a pint ;)

Hope that helps - if you want specifics it takes about 3-5years to learn them all.

p.s. regarding the products - they're safe, they're naturally derived and they work a treat :D

check the facts including all ingredients here :

www.herbalife.com (http://www.herbalife.com)

It is okay chaps, I have got it now

We are to understand that the Herbalife scheme is a way of making everyone have a good business that they can run from home, where they can help other people have a good business that they too can run from home

Okay, that seems very straightforward and Brian has explained it very well and very thoroughly, his Arkela will be very pleased with him.

What it clearly is NOT is the sale of a product that might have some beneficial effect on a person's health

What it clearly IS is the sale of a business proposition that might have some beneficial effect on a person's pocket but probably wont - Wadsley isnt renowned as Millionaire's Row and great business men probably dont spend all afternoon on Sheffield Forum when they could be out with Mr Helicopter larging it up

So it is not the sale of a health product, it is if you like the sale of an idea

and idea's dont make you money - look what happened in the bursting of the dot com bubble

It is PRODUCTS that make you money

Brian - take it away mate, we dont want it

Not at any price

PS.....you may already have won £1million in the Alberta Lottery, send me £50 and I will look your name up on the list

Hi Belle - you're about 75% on the ball I'd say - can I go now please? :thumbsup:

And if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be bathing the kids in 5 mins believe me ;)

Brian

At 75% on the ball I would call that a victory

And my message to you is this

(if you want to hear it)

I know that you are a decent bloke who wants to do well by his family and that you, like most people, are looking for the best way to do that.

This is not sarcasm, it is my honest perception of your situation

Unfortunately I truly believe, as do most people on here, that you have been lied to and you have been mislead and that despite your hopes and your dreams and your best intentions, you are embarked on something that makes you uncomfortable, not perhaps all the time, but certainly sometimes.

I can say that because once, a long time ago in my shallow youth, I fell for something similar, not exactly the same, but similar, that depended on my selling insurance and savings policies to my family.

I did that believing in the products, and actually, in my case the products werent all that bad, and a few people were subsequently glad to have taken them, but sadly not all.

Where it all fell apart was when my boss literally and honestly cellotaped my hand to the phone in an effort to make me cold call people, once my circle of friends had run out.

This is the sort of thing you are heading for and is the moment when you want to get out.

Brian, give it up, you know it is not right, you dont feel good about it and you are worried about what you are doing. What is keeping you going is your sense of responsibility to your family and to your finances, worry about not bringing in the cash, the cracks are already appearing otherwise you wouldnt be in here.

I genuinely and honestly send you a hug for your predicament

Trust me when I say that if you give up this scheme, you will find other work that will be more fulfilling and will bring in more money and will make you feel better about not selling your soul (and other people's souls)

Two years is not so bad, you can get out of this, dont make it three years

Please take my best wishes and pack it in and find something that will make you sleep at night.

You arent even now earning the money you want and you wont, because it is a scheme doomed to failure. For every success video they send you, there are thirty failure videos.

Do something that will make you feel better and feel more a part of society

This is a heartfelt plea

Hi Belle,

I appreciate your sentiment, but since it's personal I'll reply by PM.

:)

Brian

We dont DO personal on Sheffield Forum

Well we do, but not related to threads, more related to "bugger the rest do you fancy coming out to the pictures"

Sensible and thoughtful discussion of the issues is ALWAYS dealt with live and online

That is PRECISELY what the site was set up for, to allow Sheffielders to discuss Sheffield issues, Online in a Forum base

I thought you had already learnt that from your chat with Back2Basics

He doesnt post in a vacuum you know

However I shall go off, read your post and then post it up, unless it is truly private in which case I wont

Belle

QUOTE PM QUOTE PM QUOTE PM

In answer to your heartfelt plea...

Hi Belle,

thank you for your heartfelt plea but you're trying to save me based on your experience with another company, another product and your own (forgive me) failure and crushed dreams.

My success is certain because I'm with the right company, the right team and with the right products and I'm the right person for the job.

I don't want to bore you with my background - there's enough of that already in the public domain - I hope you can just be happy and supportive for me as I do something MASSIVELY GOOD in this world. This business is the best chance I've ever been given to make the maximum positive impact on so many lives that I just wouldn't be true to myself if I gave up on that opportunity.

I appreciate what you're trying to do - to protect people but all I can say is protect them from what? your company is gone - this is my chance to help people in a very very good way.

Just because you had a bad experience doesn' t mean I'm a crook and out to perpetrate the same thing on the people I sponsor.

I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread my intention was good, to help Pieface with his job hunt and offer a pointer to anyone looking to work from home in Sheffield in their own business... it's a real shame it degenerated the way it did - that did no-one any good.

Take Care & See You On-Line

Brian

END QUOTE END QUOTE END QUOTE

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh dear

There are vacuums and there are vacuums

I am a mightily successful woman who specialises in bringing fraudsters to the light of day. I have a virtual hotline for instance to David Walsh who is the consumer man at the Sheffield Star. If I give him a good story then he prints it, that is how the press works.

My company never went anywhere, to this day it is running the country.....you cant say fairer than that

I gave you the chance to say to me, yes Belle you are right, I am scraping the barrel and have made a mistake and would love someone to offer me a money making job that does not involve taking advantage of others.

The sensible and grown up answer would be to say "I dont feel that way any more"

The stupid answer and one guaranteed to get my goat is the one that says "We are respectable us, ignore all the criticism, we can make your home business successful" especially when people like Gerry Sutcliffe are tuned in ....Who he? the Minister for Consumer Affairs, another mate of mine. Do you think people dont listen as you try to con the non-achievers in our great city?

You dont learn quick you con men, do you?

.....so now, seeing that you have spit my consideration back in my eye, I declare you open season on the rest of Sheffield

B

Hi Belle,

that was a low blow -

We dont DO personal on Sheffield Forum

as a newcomer to the forum - I had a quick read of the rules which include...

Topic Content Rules
- Don't use threads for one-to-one correspondance (use email/PM!)

The message I sent to you was a private response to your very personal message to me which at the same time subtly undermined everything I stand for.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to take it out of this thread.

Have a think about that if you can.

In trying to protect people from failure you're possibly ruining the best chance many people have to work their way to a much better quality of life. It's like keeping your kids in a wheelchair because you're afraid they'll trip up and hurt themselves if they learn to walk. Who gave you the right to take that chance away?

I'm happy that you are a "mightily successful woman" - now please give me the same respect you wish to have, and leave others the chance also to have success in life.

Kind Regards

Brian

alert_bri, much as I respect your personal efforts, the corporate party line comes through your posts to an incredible degree. If I didn't know that you were cleverer than that it would look like corporate brainwashing.

Most of us have been touched by MLM at some point in our lives. Most of us realise that it relies solely on selling something to friends and family that they dont really want, but feel obliged to buy. The winners are ONLY at the top of the pyramid.

Seriously people there was someone with a genuin need for advice for working from home who started this thread. But instead it's been turned into a slanging match between someone who earnes money working from home and those who want to call him a theif.

Take your ranting elsewhere. Start your own thread perhaps.
But what you've done is highjacked a what appears to be a genuin plea for help by someone.

Honestly it's pathetic on all accounts!:mad:

Belle that was very charitable of you :) I started out thinking Brian could just have been a victim of this as well, i think clearly he is not. He understands certain concepts that make me believe he understands and utilises manipulative behaviour. The way he has set up the scam do seem to suggest not only is he using the same techniques i saw used in the US. It makes me think Brian is a teacher of the scam, rather than a victim.

Thanks to everybody who spoke up. This kind of thing needs stamping out. I am going to send all the info i have to some contacts supplied to me to try and get an article (or at least a letter) posted in the local press. Sadly i think the impact will be minimal because of the way the scam works. They make no claims in the countries they cannot legally do it (hence the before and after images, showing thinner people) and they work by getting charismatic people to do personal sessions and using hard selling techniques. It needs to be legislated against, like many of the other so called herbal products. They call them herbal to make it sound safe, how can something natural be dangerous? Well thats a total misnomer, many of the active ingredients are just as dangerous (and not regulated) as synthetic drugs.

Also apologies to Sheffield forum, not for posting the WHOIS info, but for not blanking out the address.

Hi. One of the most interesting threads i've seen around.

Question for Brian per your post:

p.s. regarding the products - they're safe, they're naturally derived and they work a treat

When you say they work a treat, what do they do? I tried the link but couldn't see any clear inforamtion, can you summarise?

Link to product details (http://www.herbalife.com/hl/templates/templatepreportal/herbalife/products/index.jsp) as requested.

John has already posted this URL (it's the 4th one that come up when you google for Herbalife) but I thought it was worth repeating:

http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/workfromhome.html

How do you anwser the accusations levelled by this article?
And as this article points out if you google for herbalife you get 1,120,000. hits. 'That's not a community - that's competition'

And can you compete with these people flogging it on ebay (presuambly trying to get some of their money back)?

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?sosortorder=1&ht=1&sosortproperty=3&satitle=herbalife
http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?GetResult&sosortorder=1&maxrecordsreturned=300&salocatedincountry=3&socurrencydisplay=2&ht=1&sosortproperty=3&satitle=herbalife&sorecordsperpage=50&sorecordstoskip=0

Nomme

How do you anwser the accusations levelled by this article?

I don't - it's satire... that's why they call it the Cockeyed Report.

And there's no competition - only enemies... Fast food, Drugs and our toxic environment - oh and ignorance.

Originally posted by alert_bri
I don't - it's satire... that's why they call it the Cockeyed Report.

And there's no competition - only enemies... Fast food, Drugs and our toxic environment - oh and ignorance.

Two words spring to mind, washed and brain.

Originally posted by alert_bri
I don't - it's satire... that's why they call it the Cockeyed Report.

Oh give me a break. It must be REALLY funny then since its been translated into 3 different other languages. It is soooo funny that so many people have linked to it to make it appear that high in the google rankings? I think not. Sounded like a serious piece of investigative journalism to me. I didn't find it at all funny.
I didn't find these 58 letters posted about that article posted on the same site from Nov 2003, funny either.
http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/email2003.html


And there's no competition - only enemies... Fast food, Drugs and our toxic environment - oh and ignorance.

I'll take that as a no then - you can't compete.

And yes you'd best hope there is ignorance hadn't you - you NEED it.

"There's no competition - only enemies" - hey I might .sig that it's so stupid.

Nomme

Take a deep breath nomme, you'll find it easier to think straight.

Internet marketing is very big business indeed - you don't get to top ranking on google and capture loads of viewing traffic by accident you know... I think the cockeyed report is a fine example of harvesting the masses - it also plays to the lowest common denominator...

I suppose you could equate it with pornography on the net really. I deal with the cockeyed report the same way - I can't do anything about it so I ignore it.

If you'd like help with a sig, give me a moment....

"If you are going through hell, keep going."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Can I go now? :thumbsup:

Originally posted by back2basics
Also apologies to Sheffield forum, not for posting the WHOIS info, but for not blanking out the address.

Apologies accepted b2b.

Originally posted by alert_bri

Can I go now? :thumbsup:

No, please stick around. We feel honour bound to keep you busy so you can stop shafting people who may not have access to the truth about your disgusting scam.

Originally posted by alert_bri

I suppose you could equate it with pornography on the net really. I deal with the cockeyed report the same way - I can't do anything about it so I ignore it.

:

What!!!

I looked at the Herbalife website and the Cockeyed report links and read both with an open mind.

I have to say the cockeyed report is a lot more convincing, as for it being satire.....is that comment for real??

We feel honour bound to keep you busy
...don't flatter yourself max - you're just not original enough to post your own thread... and the only reason I'm here is to try to offer value to the silent majority who can spot a reasonable response based on fact and personal experience.

It's easier to give value when it's not a response to a personal insult or 2nd and 3rd hand hype though :loopy:

You're right though - I've given far too many flakes far too much attention - apologies to the audience but I'll duck out now and leave it to the opinion merchants for now. Please PM me if you are seriously interested in my further input.

Deep Breath - Walk Away :)

p.s. I'll PM you TonyG

Phone the guy, he'll tell you its not satire.

As for herbalife, I don't know the products, but their "total control" tablets or capsules contain dl-phenylanaline.

you don't want to be taking that, unless you have a very good medical reason to.

It's a common enough amino acid in food, but supplementing yourself with an undeclared dosage would be a bad idea, seeing as you could induce hypertensive crisis.

I guess its in there because it acts as an appetite damper and mood lifter.

You kinda get the impression that Herbalife might be herbal in origin, but Phenylalanine is most abdundant in meat.

oh and...

Overuse of phenylalanine supplements can cause anxiety, headaches and hypertension and are contraindicated for pregnant woman, those who suffer from anxiety attacks, high blood pressure, PKU, pigmented melanoma or anyone taking an anti-depressant containing monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

AFAIK PKU is phenylketonurea - inablility to metabolise phenylalanine.

One thing the Cockeyed reported established was that 97% of the "work from home" fliers posted in Sacramento were put up by independent Herbalife distributors. Has anyone ever tried the numbers on the fliers posted around Sheffield? Do these all lead (eventually) to Herbalife I wonder?

I looked at the labels on the Herbalife web site. I would be very careful, because they did include Ephedrine in the US before they were banned. The US versions now just contain large amounts of Caffeine (just drink coffee and green tea it's much cheaper than this crap). I would not be surprised (although i have no evidence) if the versions sold in the UK are the crap they can no longer sell in the US because they have been made illegal.

Also notice that they (by law) must have a disclaimer saying that the FDA has not tested their claims. Thats how confident they are of THEIR OWN PRODUCT. They put a disclaimer on there. Also Brain is very careful not to claim anything at all or he himself would be in legal trouble. We can surmise that either Brian has knowledge of the legal system himself and is just being careful, or the advise given by Herbalife is standard around it's distributors. They ALL contain the same legal disclaimers. Brian is in the UK, so he is very careful not to even say it's a sliming pill.

I wouldn't normally reply to this sort of discussion...usually just flick through and laugh at people like alert_bri.

Other than what I've skimmed through (I have a job that requires me to spend time actually doing it...Bri you're obviuosly not that successful if you have time to spend reading, digesting and replying to these posts) I know nothing about Herbal life.

I can now tell you I know this:

1. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole (thanks B2B et al)

2. People that get involved in these schemes are usually sad losers or complete cakeholes (I used to work with a guy who sold kleaning products...a large sized member is the only way I can describe him that won't get edited).

3. Why do people like Bri actually try and out their message across on this forum. We're far too smart to fall for that sort of thing. Is there just one sad loser in a room in Sheffield that posts here just to entertain us? Bri, are you really that flange that posts for the BNP who's names (thankfully) illude me now? There can't be that many tw@ts in Sheffield!

Regarding the silent minority. The reason I'm posting is that I am usually the silent minority and wanted to post my feelings. Also, is there any other silent minority member that would like to speak up for Hebal life products? I haven't noticed any so far...

Bri, quick....go and get your Mum registered to use this site ;-p

Originally posted by alert_bri
Take a deep breath nomme, you'll find it easier to think straight.


Yawn.


Internet marketing is very big business indeed - you don't get to top ranking on google and capture loads of viewing traffic by accident you know... I think the cockeyed report is a fine example of harvesting the masses - it also plays to the lowest common denominator...


You can think what you like. Where's your evidence for the above statement? Please back it up because I'm dying to know. Please enlighten us to show us how we have been so cruelly duped I beg you.


I deal with the cockeyed report the same way - I can't do anything about it so I ignore it.

Well if you think its a pack of lies you could try sticking up for yourself and attempt to refute the arguments. That would be a start. I suppose waving your hands in the air to dismiss it and then burying your head in the sand is easier though.
Your not a member of the flat earth society are you?


If you'd like help with a sig, give me a moment....

"If you are going through hell, keep going."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)


Gee thanks. How about this one:

"The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money."
-Anon.


Can I go now? :thumbsup:

If you can't stand the heat....

Nomme

Having dropped this thread in the hope it would disappear it comes back to haunt me :D

I'd just like to apologise to everyone further up the thread who I was disrespectful to - it is a humbling experience to realise that you can lose your head when strangers call it as they see it... I've taken the time over the last few days to get to know some posters here and it's allowed me to understand more of the vibe... which is generally very positive and friendly.

I'd like to propose a new thread where we can discuss how to protect yourself from scammers, pyramid selling con artists and the like and would be happy to offer my experience to the forum.

If anyone is interested in another thread, please let me know here and I'll kick things off with my thoughts.

Cheers

Bri :thumbsup:

Pyramid schemes, no matter what you choose to call them are revolting, just like the scum who set them up. They prey on the poor and those who are least able to defend themselves from the marketing propaganda.

I know someone who turned to one of these schemes (Ammways?). He put in 40 hours per month and made about £10 out of it. The poor guy was desperate to make money and support his family, and he spouted similar marketing drivel to what alert Bri keeps coming out with to defend what he was doing, thereby alienating himself from his friends. He once told me that he wasn't going to let the negative attitudes of people stand in the way of him becoming a success, and that such friends weren't going to get in the way of him providing for his family. Sound familiar Bri? These sentiments came straight out of one of the brainwashing presentations he kept attending.

Jack it in dude, money's not everything.

albert_bri, if you aren't prepared to define what it is that your selling (and no a link to your site does not suffice) then it is clear you have no product. The fact that you have continued to respond to this thread demonstrates that you are here to promote and justify your 'buy the concept' scheme. Cold callers and doorstep salesmen are bad enough, but at leat they have a product and a price, regardless whether you want to know or not. I'm responding as part of the 'silent' community which you seem to think agrees with your pitch: we don't.

Regardless of whether you've been suckered into this 'business' and are trying to recoup your losses; or if your a conman dragging others into this scheme; the principle doesn't work long term. You are being manipulated and you're trying to do the same to other people. It's a sad way of life which is ultimatley fruitless for everyone bar the top tier.

Thankfully I know that the folks of SF are too intelligent to fall for this rubbish, and I hope the media educate the general populous of Sheffield to your scam.

(normally) Silent of Sheffield

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it distasteful for Bri to have a photo of his 3 v small kids on his business website as "The reason"? Sorry Bri, but I don't know of anyone else that needs to pull this heartstring for their "business venture".

Also, note the before and after pictures. You might look better off in the latter, but only 'cos you've changed from casual clothes into a suit, and you are photographed in a posh venue. This proves nothing, it's just a cynical ploy that no-one is going to fall for.

It's really difficult getting through the cynicism and bitterness some of you are poring out on me personally but I care enough about the subject to respond... does that make me evil?

I could be very very wrong putting my testimonial on the web, and I take your point Tony - when you guys are so outspoken in your hate towards someone you really don't know and don't have the personal facts to judge then it is pretty scary! I'm certainly going to have to think hard about taking it down if it exposes my family to such biggotry.

One of the best ways to detect a scam is to make sure that you can talk to the person directly who will be helping you... if it's a nameless e-mail address or P.O. box number then how reliable do you think the support is likely to be?

...and to reply to Funky Dave I appreciate your points - and hate scams and pyramid schemes too which is why I proposed a thread to discuss how to spot them... do I take it you would support a thread for this? or are you really not that bothered?

Not the positive response I'd hoped for but understandable so far I guess :cool:

By all means start a thread on pyramid scams buddy. I suppose we shouldn't really be discussing them under this thread.

Don't think I'm getting at you, far from it. No one's going to blame you for trying to do the best for yourself. I haven't really looked into your business, so I don't know the specifics, and I do hope it works out for you. I and the others are only pointing out our reservations.

Anyway, welcome to the forum! I'll look forward to more neutral discussions with you on other threads!:thumbsup:

i don't hate you bri, and certainly not your family. I just dont agree with what you do.

I especially think that YOU are very very wrong to use your chilldren in that way.

i don't hate you bri, and certainly not your family. I just dont agree with what you do.

I'm sorry Tony - it just reads that way in print... I realise we all make opinions based on the facts we personally have available.

I'll put some thoughts together over the weekend and kick off a new thread.

Cheers :thumbsup:

Well I don't bri, I assure you.

I do find it very distasteful to use photo's of your children to sell slimming pills. Have a think about that at the weekend too bri.

Originally posted by Tony
Well I don't bri, I assure you.

I do find it very distasteful to use photo's of your children to sell slimming pills. Have a think about that at the weekend too bri.

Have I missed something? I thought the whole point about the majority of posts on this thread was that Brian doesn't sell slimming pills.:confused:

I was being generous :P

Tony, Max,

thanks for demonstrating the futility of making a personal judgement on someone you never met.

This is truly ridiculous :D

Can't wait to meet you both in person - should be very interesting ;)

Originally posted by alert_bri
Tony, Max,

thanks for demonstrating the futility of making a personal judgement on someone you never met.

This is truly ridiculous :D

Can't wait to meet you both in person - should be very interesting ;)

So I really shouldn't judge Ian Huntley either, never having met him?

What a truly ridiculous idea.

Further information on Herbalife (which isn't a scam for taking money off people, really, honestly, hand on heart).

I received an email today telling me that I had won on some Lotto or other for which I hadn't bought tickets. Included in this scam mail was a link to this site: http://www.healthiest.co.za/

which prompted me to click on a flash for A Brand New Product. Guess where that took me? To an on-line ordering page which included:

HERBALIFELINE®
'Let all the rivers to the Heart run free".

Over to you Brian, scam or not, honest or not?

max - I'm sure you are capable of reporting SPAM which is totally against Herbalife rules of practice... I would check carefully when you leave your e-mail address for competitions, sign-ups etc on the net - don't tick the check-boxes for "I would like additional information likely to be of interest to me e-mailed..." etc etc...

and I'll direct you to this site which seems to have loads of useful advice on Homeworking...

http://www.homeworking.com

... which hopefully gives Pieface (remember him?) and anyone else interested in legitimate homeworking vs. scams, pyramid selling schemes and the like - a good source of facts.

Cheers :thumbsup:

Just checked out the work from home site,and looked at all the case studies.
There were loads of them,however where are the faliures ?,surely not all the people that work from home are an overnight success and own a flash car and bikni clad babe.

Sadly all I saw was file after file of the success stories,ehere are the stories of the family that were suckered in and lost everything ?

Sadly the newsletter was down due to,guess what spam abuse.

Anotehr case study from a SUPERVISOR. Remember although in the US you can get your money back, you cannot in the UK.

http://www.freewebs.com/herbalifereport/

” Universal Saturation, Human Greed and the Company’s Bad Reputation Have Ruined Herbalife”


I started this website based on my Herbalife Experience. I was a 'Herbalife Distributor'. I was a Supervisor for 3 months, and in that time I uncovered everything I needed to know about this company to know that it is a scam. Through being a Herbalife Distributor I lost close to $2000. The goods I purchased were overpriced, and ineffective, and although the company offers guarantees for Distributors, these are nothing more than tips and tricks to get you to sign up. From the Day you sign up in Herbalife, you will spend the rest of the time trying to make up for the money that you have lost.

I have since resigned as a Herbalife Distributor, and have spent my time trying work out exactly why I failed as a Herbalife Distributor. After reading hundreds of articles on the Internet, and researching dozens of Herbalife Court Cases, I have come up with the following conclusion about Herbalife.

99% of Herbalife Distributors will lose money with Herbalife, based on the following 3 facts:

1. Universal Saturation – There are too many Distributors and not enough customers. Herbalife doesn't know or care if your area is already saturated. You have made all of the investment. They don't take any of the blame for totally overbooking your market with distributors.

2. Human Greed – Most Distributors are just there to make a quick buck. They don’t care who they sell their products to and when recruiting want nothing more than for you to sign up and spend money on buying thousands of dollars worth of stock. They don’t care how well you do, they just want to get paid themselves by convincing you to spent thousands of dollars on overpriced weight loss products

3. Herbalife’s Bad Reputation – For years Herbalife has been referred to as nothing but a Pyramid Scheme. Because of this, as well as the many Herbalife Court Cases, the scandals involving the safety of Herbalife products and the number of people being ripped off by Herbalife, the company has built up one of the worst reputations of all the multi-level marketing companies. So many people have failed to make money as a Herbalife Distributor that most people refuse to get involved, let alone purchase Herbalife products.

Interested in Learning about My Herbalife Experience

CLICK HERE, To read the article on my Herbalife experience, and to find out exactly how I got scammed

As well as the above article, this website contains other articles that go into more detail about what Herbalife is about, and will tell you exactly what they do and how they rip you off. These articles are all taken from ex-Herbalife Distributors, as well as people that have tried their weight loss products, or have been involved with Herbalife in one way or another.

CLICK HERE, To read other articles about Herbalife

Lost Money With Herbalife
Not that many people are aware of this, but you can get your money back (well most of it) through the 'Herbalife Buy Back.'

About 10 case studies about the scam (and people who have lost money) and also the effectiveness of the 'product'.

http://www.freewebs.com/herbalifereport/articles.html

I will keep posting them as i find them.

Ok this is SO FUNNY Max! So in my searches i noticed that searching on Herbalife and scam brings up many pages about the scam. But it also brings up many herbalife distributors. Checking the code on these sites shows that they have the word 'scam' in the meta tags (but clearly not on the web site selling). Very clever way of using metatags to try and hide the sites that tell you about the scam.

You have to give it to them they are using technology very well.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/pyramid.htm

Here is the DTI's site, on the bottom is a simple example of why they never work.

"Example - If eight people each invest £1,000 each in a scheme and then progress through the levels of the pyramid, they will each expect to receive £8,000 when they reach the top.

But for each of those eight people to receive that amount, it will be necessary for another 64 people to have each invested £1,000. Each of those 64 investors will be expecting to collect their £8,000, but that would mean another 512 people would have to have invested. Subsequent investors of would need 4,096 participants then 32,768 participants, then 262,144 participants and so on.

In simple terms, each participant needs another 8 investors in the scheme to get their money back and make a return. Eventually, the supply of potential investors must be exhausted, leaving the majority of people in the scheme receiving nothing in return for their money."

If your STILL considering doing this scam pay $2.95 for this forbes (a very well respected US business site) about how it was a consious decision to look for "suckers overseas" when it colapsed in the US. It also shows with Graphics how the system is designed to collapse.

http://www.forbes.com/premium/archives/purchase.jhtml?storyURL=/forbes/1997/1020/6009043a.html&_requestid=8344

I agree b2b that it is funny. However, we must not lose sight of the fact that Herbalife and its proponents are engaged in a fraud which is definitely not funny.

The evidence, facts, anecdotes, reports, call them what you will, resoundingly condemn the company, its products and distributors. In defence, we have one poor, solitary soul contributing to this debate who cannot see past the conditioning he undertook when he first embarked on his life of deception.

Perhaps he'll see the light when he has recovered his investment but somehow I doubt it.

Absolutely max, i don't find the scheme funny in the slightest. The case studies are FULL of people who could ill afford to be scammed. I know the people who fall for the claims of unlimited earning are often the people who need money the most, which is why it is so dangerous.

BTW i am going to find time this week to write to the papers and our local MP's.

Seriously people there was someone with a genuin need for advice for working from home who started this thread. But instead it's been turned into a slanging match between someone who earnes money working from home and those who want to call him a theif.

Take your ranting elsewhere. Start your own thread perhaps.
But what you've done is highjacked a what appears to be a genuin plea for help by someone.

Honestly it's pathetic on all accounts!

Here's the advice

http://www.homeworking.com

Any other opinion about Herbalife or my success vs your failure - please start another thread and I'll be happy to help you in any way I can.

Try being positive - it'll change your life.

Originally posted by alert_bri

Try being positive - it'll change your life.

Therein lies your problem a_b, we're all positive that you're operating a scam.:loopy:

that's what I mean mate - if you were any more negative we could have you developed :loopy:

Originally posted by PieFace
Hello everyone,

I live in the Nether Edge area of Sheffield and I am looking for work that I can do from home. I have looked in Sheffield Star and written to all people who advertise and its all Kleeneze.

Does anyone know of any companies who offer a work from home job ? I don't really consider walking around sheffield delivering catalogues working from home :loopy:

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

getting back to the very start of all this.a genuine answer is

i pack greetings cards for a distribution company (sticking bows on etc) its not rocket science i agree but theres NO outlay NO upfront investment, they deliver them i make them nice they collect. and they pay £30 per thousand,takes a couple of hours to do,the more you do the more you get.

no motivational videos,not selling duff products, NO CASH OUTLAY

Originally posted by gizmo
getting back to the very start of all this.a genuine answer is

i pack greetings cards for a distribution company (sticking bows on etc) its not rocket science i agree but theres NO outlay NO upfront investment, they deliver them i make them nice they collect. and they pay £30 per thousand,takes a couple of hours to do,the more you do the more you get.

no motivational videos,not selling duff products, NO CASH OUTLAY

Where can I get more info on this

Further research has been published today about the potentially lethal effects of ephedra and Metabolife 356 in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/2/216

"Anecdotal reports of sudden cardiac death and cerebrovascular accidents have raised questions about the safety of dietary weight-loss supplements that contain ephedra and caffeine (DSEC)."

Scientists also said that Vodka and Redbull can kill you and that mobile phones cause tumours.

I don't believe everything I read.

Originally posted by DaBouncer


I don't believe everything I read.

Yes I agree it is healthy to be sceptical about some things, however I find it hard to accuse scientific journals of publishing spurious research.